Latest / Friendship IRL: Real Talk About Friendship, Community, and What It Actually Takes / It’s OK to Get Help With Making Friends (Especially After College!)

Transcript

It’s OK to Get Help With Making Friends (Especially After College!) · Friendship IRL: Real Talk About Friendship, Community, and What It Actually Takes

• 0:00
  Podcast Intro/Outro: All right, gang. Here's to nights that turn into mornings and friends that turn into family. Cheers. Hello, hello, and welcome to the Friendship IRL podcast. I'm your host, Alex Alexander. Each week we talk about what is working(and what is not) in our friendships, community and connections. Have you ever wished you could sit down and have a conversation about what is really going on in your friendships? Well, you found your people. Join us as we dive into real life stories and explore new ways to approach these connections. Together, we're reimagining the rules of friendship
• 0:57
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Picture this. You're 22 fresh out of college, and you just moved back to your hometown. You've got some friends scattered around the city, sure, but suddenly making plans feels hard, like really hard, and you can't remember the last time making plans felt hard, because you were just in college, your friends were at the dining hall in the apartment next door, you always knew where you could go to find someone, and now you're stuck texting back and forth about hanging out this weekend without it ever actually happening, and you're sitting there thinking, Wait, when did hanging out with my friends get so hard? That's exactly what happened to my guest today, Jason Edmonds, he graduated from a tiny liberal arts college on the East Coast. We're talking about 350 people in his freshman class, the kind of place where you could just walk five minutes to your friend's dorm at 2am to play Super Smash Bros and then one plane flight back to Seattle, across the country, and suddenly everything feels different. Here's the thing about post-college friendship transition that I think we don't talk enough about. When you're in your very early 20s, you don't expect it to be hard. Friends are life. Sure you've heard about people in their 30s and 40s struggling to make friends, and you think, Well, that won't be me. I'm young, I'm social. I like to go out to the bars. I always know how to find people. I know how to make friends. But college friendship and adult friendship, they're different games. So Jason did what any very brave and very resourceful person would do. He created his own solution. He couldn't find the kind of group he wanted. I've talked about this before, so he created one. He started Six Degrees, which is like blind dating, but for making friends, they match people into small groups based on personality quizzes, and then bring them together for activities like gingerbread house decorating or mini golf. It's IRL, it's intentional, and it's helping people in Seattle find their people. But this conversation isn't really about Six Degrees. Sure we're going to talk about it in the episode. It's really about that jarring transition from college social life to adult friendship, the vulnerability of admitting you need help making friends, when six months ago, friends were everything and it just felt easy with that. Let's get into today's episode.
• 3:41
  Alex Alexander: Jason, thank you so much for hanging out today.
• 3:45
  Jason Edmonds: Thank you so much for having me, Alex.
• 3:47
  Alex Alexander: It's been a hot second since we've talked. How have you been?
• 3:51
  Jason Edmonds: I've been good.
• 3:51
  Jason Edmonds: Just it's been really busy with the holiday season and all of that. I'm sure you can relate, and I'm a little bit I'm looking forward to the new year.
• 4:00
  Jason Edmonds: Honestly, I kind of, yeah, I kind of want to turn the chapter on this one.
• 4:08
  Alex Alexander: Okay, so do you feel like 2025 was maybe a little bit of like a dumpster fire?
• 4:14
  Jason Edmonds: It wasn't a dumpster fire. I think that I was able to do so many cool things throughout 2020 Yeah, that feeling when you're like, oh, like, you know, you're kind of ready for the year to be over. And to begin,
• 4:27
  Alex Alexander: yeah, it's so funny because it's just another month turning over. I guess you, you know you have to remember to write a different year on things for a hot second. But I was actually just thinking about that today, because we're recording this on December 30, and I've got some things I want to start doing. Like, consistency is a big goal for me for next year. Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, like, Gosh, why am I not just starting today? Like, why am I waiting two more days? You know, it's so silly how hooked we get to the dates and things.
• 4:58
  Jason Edmonds: But I agree. I'm literally trying to do the exact same thing. Like my New Year's resolution is to follow through on the things that I say I'm going to do okay, and I'm so awful at that. But no, this is the year that I finally figured that part of it out.
• 5:17
  Alex Alexander: I get that. I mean, I have a few goals, but one of my goals this year I'll share here is to finally be consistent on social media. I am so hit or miss, and I just need to commit to posting like maybe not every day, but at least every weekday.
• 5:40
  Jason Edmonds: Social media is so hard, though, my brand Six Degrees is very, very dependent on social media. And even then, it's like, it's like a constant grind, like, I took a week off posting on social media this past week, and it felt like kind of a relief, honestly, but also at the same time, I was like, wow, this is like, really not good, because I felt like guilt every day for not posting, because I knew that once you kind of start, you have to keep the content coming out.
• 6:08
  Alex Alexander: I think that's honestly why I struggle so much, is I feel like, once I start, quote, unquote, right? Like, once I start this year and I'm saying I'm gonna post, like, Does it ever end? It feels like this new thing they'll like never end in my life. I need to find the joy in it. Maybe that's my goal for 2026 find the joy in social media.
• 6:29
  Jason Edmonds: No, so for me, like I don't naturally come from the social media world, but what does make me really happy is like bringing people together at, you know, Six Degrees events, and seeing the friendships that are made from them, and that always reinvigorates my energy, but the posting part is a little bit cumbersome at times.
• 6:49
  Alex Alexander: Yeah, I get that, but you get that in real life payout. Let's talk about that for a second. I will do an intro, and I will talk about Six Degrees from my words, but can you describe Six Degrees from your perspective?
• 7:06
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, Six Degrees is based on the problem that I felt when I first moved back to Seattle. And I moved back to Seattle in actually, it was February of 2025, I didn't really recognize the city that I had grown up in. I went to high school here, but most of my friends had moved on to other places, and I just didn't like the options that I had for meeting new people around the city. I felt like a lot of times the gatherings were just, oh, like a bunch of people gather into a bar, and no hate on that.
• 7:36
  Jason Edmonds: I love bars, but it didn't feel like the most personal touch for what I was looking for in particular at that time. So I decided to start six degrees, which is an IRL social experience. We essentially like our kicker is that we want to make every event feel like a smaller group gathering, and so we have all the people who sign up for Six Degrees take a personality quiz, and we've developed this, like pretty neat algorithm that helps pair people into smaller groups of four to six, so that even in a group of maybe 30-40 people, you still have four or five curated people that you can really talk to and get to know on like, a deeper level. And that was just honestly the solution that I was looking for when I first moved back here, and it's been really cool to see it develop and all the different forms has taken shape. Another thing that we try to do that sets us apart is we try to predicate our events around activities. I feel like activities, for me have been a really fun way to bond with friends over time, and it's just an easy conversation starter, like hey, we can kind of make fun of each other for how bad our gingerbread house decorating is going, or poke fun at our mini golf skills, and we leave of a closer bond as a result of the activity. So I try to make sure that all of my events are unique. They have some kind of twist, and they are predicated around an activity of some sort.
• 10:14
  Alex Alexander: There are so many directions I could go from everything you just said. I'm going to ask a couple more questions about Six Degrees, because we're here, if somebody wants to show up so they take the personality quiz. You pair them together, yeah, I've seen your events calendars, right?
• 10:29
  Alex Alexander: You have a few events every month. Somebody shows up to the gingerbread making class. Is there more than four to six people there? Or is it just four to six people?
• 10:38
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, so there's more to four to six people there? The reason for that is because I want people to have other people to talk to us out of their group, it's hard to perfectly match people every single time, and sometimes it's just doesn't click. And what I've learned is like, that's okay. So I've learned that the best events are where you have a mixture, where you have time to talk with your smaller groups, but you also have time to mingle with everybody else's at the event. So our. Our ideal event size. And I would say the average size for most of our events is 15 to 25 people. And I think that gives that really good mixture of the ability to break down into smaller groups for that more meaningful conversation, but then also to just have a good time with the entire group. It really has been something that I think has been able to fill up people's social calendars in some ways. And so it's kind of nice because we have some regulars who've kind of been with six degrees for a while, and they come to our bar crawls, and they all hang out with us, and it's a really good vibe. So I would encourage anyone who is nervous about coming like it's not just like you're going to be seated at this table with three other people. And if it's bad, then good luck. It's gonna be more of like a big group hang but with pockets where you'll be able to meet people on a more intimate level.
• 11:57
  Alex Alexander: You know, I talk to a lot of people who start groups like this. Obviously, it's not my first episode of someone who has started an IRL group. And I always champion people like you who are doing the IRL events, because it is hard to do that. But I think I haven't heard anybody that has your model yet where you're kind of matched with a smaller group and then but also have this bigger group. That's really a for anybody who has social anxiety going to an event like this. I think it's a really fun combo, because if you are anxious, maybe stick a little tighter to your small group and just try to get to know those couple people. Yep. But then if you get there and you are anxious and nothing seems to hit, there are some other options of people to talk to.
• 12:45
  Alex Alexander: And I get a lot of questions from people kind of like, okay, so I go to this event, what if it doesn't hit, what if it doesn't work? What if I don't meet anybody? What if it feels like a waste of time, is kind of what they're saying, Yep. And you're just giving so many opportunities for someone to find some connection in this room.
• 13:04
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah. Well, first of all, I think that part of being a community organizer is respecting the time and the courage that it takes to actually put yourself out there.
• 13:14
  Jason Edmonds: So that's kind of where I start with, fundamentally, is it's not easy. Because I was here myself last February where, like, I was like, Okay, I should go out to this thing, but I just stayed at home because I would I had the same exact concerns of who's going to be there. Are they going to like me? Am I going to have to go up and introduce myself to someone? And I don't really like that. So as someone that has struggled with anxiety in the past as well, like I totally feel that. And so I've purposefully designed six degrees around that, where I want to lower all the barriers for why somebody would say, like, No, I don't want to do that. I think that's the most difficult part, is just like actually showing up and giving something a chance. And so I think that's the toughest part about running any community, in my opinion. So I try, as my best to lower the barriers around that.
• 14:08
  Alex Alexander: Well, I think you're doing a great job so far.
• 14:11
  Alex Alexander: You know, like, maybe, could you hone it in and perfect it over time? Sure, but give yourself a big pat on the back, because I think it's a genius model. Thank you. I want to talk more about six degrees, but actually, let's backtrack. Like, well, I'm going to loop back. I'm going to loop back to six degrees. So tell me a little bit. You graduated from college. Where did you what part of the country do you go to college in?
• 14:35
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, so I went to college. It's a very small, like liberal arts school on the East Coast, and it felt very much like high school, like we had, I think 350 people in my freshman class.
• 14:47
  Alex Alexander: I thought I went to a small college. Okay!
• 14:50
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, the school is called, have it free college.
• 14:52
  Jason Edmonds: It's like, super small, and everybody knows each other. It was good in some ways bad in others. It was really easy to build that, like tight knit community. But I think that's what a big part of the problem is, is post-college, you don't have that same proximity. I remember on my freshman year college campus, my friends and I could just walk five minutes over to each other's dorms, and our campus was really small, and we could play Super Smash Bros at two in the morning, and it was no big deal.
• 15:25
  Alex Alexander: What I would give for like, one month of that life again, anyways, yeah,
• 15:28
  Jason Edmonds: I know, I know I would. I think about it a lot.
• 15:32
  Alex Alexander: I'm like, wow, yes, all the time we talk about this. Like, if I could just go back even one week, give me one week of that, yeah, a decade of my life. Every decade I get one week of that, I would take it in a heartbeat. Yeah?
• 15:44
  Jason Edmonds: Versus now, as a young adult, I moved back here, and I did have friends here, but I, you know, I had one friend that was in Woodinville. I had one friend in Seattle. I had one friend like up North Seattle, around Linwood, and it's just like meeting each other, even finding the common ground. It takes a lot of planning. I'm not sure. This is like a guy thing, but you know, we're not the best planners of all time, and so we would say, Oh yeah, like this weekend we're gonna, for sure, hang and nothing would happen.
• 16:16
  Jason Edmonds: The next weekend, we'd be like, All right, let's hang and nothing would happen. And we will just have the same thing like happen to us every single weekend. And I think you know that proximity matters when you're trying to make those plans.
• 16:29
  Alex Alexander: Okay, this was not an angle I intended to go.
• 16:32
  Alex Alexander: But now I have more questions about this, because I think this is not something I've ever talked about in the podcast, but my brain is going off over here.
• 16:37
  Alex Alexander: I got, like, fire alarms going on, yeah? So I think you're right, not all women, but a good number of women right. Would like pick an activity and say, Do you want to meet here on Saturday? Do you want to get brunch? Do you want to go to this art show? Do you want to go on a walk? Right? And they pick a time. And what you're saying is, you and your guy friends are kind of like, Let's get together. And so is the reason you aren't hanging out because nobody messages each other, or is it because by the time you are messaging each other, it's like, I gotta get in the car and drive 45 minutes, and if I have time for that today, like, what's the barrier? Do you think....
• 17:21
  Jason Edmonds: I would say it's more the latter, like, we do want to hang out with each other at the end of the day, but because everything is so last minute, and we don't actually pick a thing that we want to do, it's like, oh, like, we'll hang and then it's like, okay, well, what do we want to do when we want to go? You know, we haven't, like, locked anything in, and so our h usually consists of, okay, like, let's get food, but it's difficult, right? Like something always kind of comes up at the end, like, oh, you know, I have to help my family out with some chores, or I got to do X, Y and Z, and just never fully materializes.
• 17:58
  Alex Alexander: I think about this because I spend way too much time analyzing my own friendships. And I almost think that the closer you are to people as female, this is how I feel. Like the friends I am better friends with, the more I do this kind of, like, want to hang thing, yes, yes. And the friends I am not as close with, right? It's like, do you want to go on a walk three Saturdays from now at 3pm right? And it is in the calendar, yeah. But then the friends I'm closer to, it's kind of like, Hey, we should get together this weekend, is normally what we say. And then we get to Saturday morning and we will text each other, and it's like, okay, well, what do we want to do? We spend plenty of time on the couch just hanging out. Like, that's not, yeah, we do that, but sometimes we want to leave the house, but then it's almost like, okay, what are we?
• 18:55
  Jason Edmonds: You know, actually, I was gonna ask you this question, because I know that you study friendship, you know so much, what's like the right kind of activity for the right kind of friend? Like, with that close friend, if you're suggesting an activity, is that kind of a weird thing, or is that something that you know we should be doing more of?
• 19:13
  Alex Alexander: I think that the more variety you can have in activities, the easier it is to hang out. And by that, I mean, yeah, like there are plenty of activities with my closest friends that I am very comfortable doing that are easy to ask them to do. Like, Hey, you want to get dinner, you want to go on a walk, you want to come over and sit on my couch, right? And that's going to vary for everybody. I'm not saying that. Like, if you don't feel like your friend can come sit on your couch, if that feels uncomfortable, they're not your close friend. It's going to be different for everybody. Like, it might be. They have a friend of mine who is incredibly into, like, outdoorsy stuff and mountaineering, and he just posted about how he basically rode his bike for 24 hours with a group of friends. Like that might be something he's really comfortable doing with his friends, but inviting them to come sit on the couch and watch a TV show is not I think the activity can be different, but the more activities, the more variety you have in things that feel comfortable, the easier it is to invite someone along. So an example of that would be, you were saying earlier, I can't hang out because I have to help my family with something around their house. Yeah? Now, if your friend knows your family and that's a comfortable way to hang out, you might be like, Hey, man, I gotta go over and I told my parents I would do the yard work because my dad blew out his back. Like, if you want to just come hang out in the backyard and chat while rake leaves, like, Yeah, bring a chair and sit. You know, maybe you want to help, maybe you don't, but, like, you can just come hang out. But if that friend has never come to your parents house before, yeah, you're probably not likely to invite them. Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good point. I think it's good to mix it up and add in new things. Some of my closest friends actually something. Started doing is we created a shared note. And any time one of us thinks of an idea of something we want to try together, we just put it in the shared note. You guys are way more advanced than my friends.
• 21:21
  Alex Alexander: And then, because you're not always thinking about it right, it could be like some activity you saw, or I'm trying to think like some things that are in there. I have one note that is kind of with, like some girlfriends of mine, and then I have one note that's with a larger groups. There's guys in there too, and the larger group note has things like, let's go to Emerald downs. Let's go. We have a friend who's British and used to play like he does play rec rugby now, but he used to play very competitive rugby when he was younger, like, let's go to the Seattle rugby game. Let's go to the free museum Thursdays in Seattle. Yeah, let's rent that sauna thing that floats on Lake Union like anything that anybody sees, they just drop it, yeah, in there. And some of those require more planning, or they're only a certain time of year. But other things you know, could be like, go check out this new restaurant. Yeah. And we're all sitting around being like, I don't know what to do. It's like, Hey, I saw this viral Tiktok of this soft serve ice cream in Pioneer Square. Like, should we just go down there?
• 22:32
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, yeah, I think I need something like that. Because, yeah, we're not even at step one. Like, all we have is the group chat and this, yes, usually, I think how my plans tend to develop is we just meet up, and then we decide what to do. And I think when you get to a certain level of friendship, that's probably how it starts to show itself a little bit more, is you feel comfortable just like meeting each other, and whatever you're doing, it's going to be like a relatively good time, and you're kind of sure of that. I guess I feel like with my events, I have to go not over the top, but more leaning into the activity side, because people don't know each other yet, but with my close, close friends, just like, okay, like, you know, we can drive around for 15 minutes, 20 minutes deciding where to eat, and it wouldn't be weird,
• 23:29
  Alex Alexander: No, not at all.
• 23:29
  Alex Alexander: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Want to be clear with people. I have those types of hangouts too, where it's like, somebody will just come over and then maybe we decide to go do something, yeah?
• 23:37
  Alex Alexander: But sometimes we're messaging and it's like, I don't really want to sit around at home, like, I want to get out of the house, yeah? Like, let's pick something. I'll come pick you up. Let's go!
• 23:48
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: This whole conversation about activities and proximity got me thinking about something I want you to try. If you have a friend you want to be closer to start making some mental notes of things you could invite them to, but these things that you're going to invite them to, they feel like they're kind of pushing an edge. Here's what I mean. A couple nights ago, friends of ours invited us to Top Golf. The activity itself wasn't the edge. The edge was that our friend's dad was joining. And we've never met our friend em's parents. She's incredibly close with them. Sees them all the time, but by inviting us into this activity, she's pushing her edge because she wants to make it feel comfortable and normal that we could be invited to her parents' house for a summer barbecue, or join them for dinner if they're going out with her parents. By doing this, it would add a new way for us to feel comfortable hanging out. Now we were busy that night, so we had to say no, but I felt genuinely bummed about it, not because we missed Top Golf, but because I recognized that this was an edge. She was actively trying to let us in, and this would have added a new route to our friendship, a new way that we felt comfortable hanging out. So here's your challenge. Next time you have a friend you want to get closer to, or just an activity where you consider inviting someone along, but it feels a little bit out of the ordinary, maybe do it? Push the edge. Add a root, try it out.
• 25:28
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: This is one of the ways that friendships actually grow, not just by doing the same thing over and over, but by expanding what feels normal in your friendship.
• 25:41
  Alex Alexander: Where I was going to go with this is so you move back to Seattle, yeah, you had some close friends here, yes, but something was it that you wanted people that were in closer proximity, like, what was the missing because it sounds like you got some good friends.
• 25:57
  Alex Alexander: Like, what was the missing piece for? Or just more variety people in a certain interest...
• 26:04
  Jason Edmonds: I think part of it was proximity. And then part of it was that, like my friends were actually not all back at the same times. So I had a friend who, like, moved here as another friend was leaving. So it was just kind of like mismatch of timings. And then honestly, like, I am used to having a broader social life. I just think from like college, like you're just get, like, used to, like knowing a lot of people, or just like, having different friend groups for different kind of things as well. And so I was just looking to expand my circle honestly and just like, meet new people in the city. And I just think that in college, there were so many built in ways for me to do that.
• 26:46
  Jason Edmonds: But coming to Seattle, and I know we have the stigma known as, you know, the Seattle freeze, or whatever the case may be, that actually was what initially got me interested in building Six Degrees, because I kept hearing that like every social thing that I went to, but I was just like, I do want to have a open minded, friendly attitude towards meeting new people.
• 27:12
  Alex Alexander: So what are the some of the things you tried before you decided, like, I'm not finding the solution I want.
• 27:19
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah. So I tried a few meetup groups, and it was not bad, for sure. I definitely met some people. I tried a few networking events. Have less things to say about the networking events. I'm personally not super big on meeting people for networking sake. To me, it's always felt a little bit transactional. I mean, obviously, you know, you got to do what you got to do, but I always
• 27:45
  Alex Alexander: just yeah, they click. For some people, it's not your thing. Yeah, everybody has to like everything.
• 27:51
  Jason Edmonds: And to me, the way I've always felt about it is one meaningful connection is a lot better than 50, you know, hey, type of connections, and so I'd rather really understand and, like, learn about that person. And I felt like the common thing was that at most of these events, it was very like, I talked to one person for two minutes, and then I go off to another conversation for two minutes. And you know, we're talking in these like little pockets of, like, four or five, but it's like for five minutes at a time, and then someone leaves, and someone new comes in. And so yes, I might meet like 50 people in one night, which, just as a disclosure, you will not get at a Six Degrees event. So if you're looking for, you know, meeting 50 people in one night, then you know, you should go to some of these networking or meetup groups. But for me, like I was really looking to talk to, like, maybe two or three people, but I really wanted to, like, know about them, like, learn about what makes them tick and things like that. And I felt like those spaces didn't have the room for me to fully explore some of those connections unless I, you know, asked for their contact information and then I followed up on it, and then I was like, okay, like, Let's arrange something, all of which I never really did. So that's kind of why it didn't work for me personally, but I think for others, you know, those are definitely great options.
• 29:10
  Alex Alexander: So the following up, and the like, reaching outside of the group, you don't feel like Six Degrees requires that is that, just because people keep showing up,
• 29:20
  Jason Edmonds: I do think that Six Degrees does require, okay, to a certain degree, yeah.
• 29:23
  Alex Alexander: Like, I was like, Wait, did you solve this problem? Like, how did you do that? Because that's a big problem
• 29:28
  Jason Edmonds: for people. Okay, we actually are working on a solution for that.
• 29:32
  Alex Alexander: Okay, Fun!
• 29:34
  Jason Edmonds: but I can't share too much about that
• 29:36
  Alex Alexander: I'm on the edge of my seat.
• 29:39
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, so that is one of the problems that's very difficult to solve. We do have some, some people who've returned the Six Degrees. So some of our events will have like, a pocket of people who have been to four or five events together, and so they're well acquainted. They're very welcoming. And we can kind of have like, you know, a big group pain, if that makes sense. So yeah, I will say, though, I think that the following up part is just going to inherently be a part of making friends. And I know that it can be very daunting and a little bit awkward, but my closest friends that I've made for Six Degrees are the ones that they followed up. I followed up with,
• 30:18
  Alex Alexander: Okay, so tell me a little bit about that, making friends in the group you created.
• 30:23
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, well, this was really like solving my own problem. Yeah, I the first friend that I made through Six Degrees was this guy named PJ.
• 30:30
  Jason Edmonds: He hit me up on Instagram after we met at one of our secret dinner events. Classic, yep, yep, yep. He, you know, was like, basically asking to hang out again. And I was like, oh yeah. Like, sure. Like, let's do it. And we played FIFA together.
• 30:45
  Jason Edmonds: Just sat on the couch, and it was a lot of fun. So I think, yeah, to that point, I think Six Degreess and a lot of these social scenarios are a really good way to kind of kick the conversation off and to find someone that you genuinely vibe with. But it does take, I think, some. One doing the reaching out to kind of set up that next thing. And I haven't quite figured out how to make it not that way. I wish there was, like, an easier way and like a less awkward way to do it, but in my experience, like it does take that first person reaching out. But I guess the one word of advice that I would say to I guess, like, ease some of the hesitation to do that is that usually the other person is on the same page. Like, if, like, if they, if you guys were talking for, you know, an hour, two hours at the event, and they, you know, they're happy to give you their Instagram or their number, whatever the case may be. Like, usually they're on the same page. Of, like, okay, like, I would be down to hang out again.
• 31:52
  Alex Alexander: I mean, especially if someone has come to an event meant to help you make friends. Exactly, yeah, right. Like, I talk about this a lot, not everyone's gonna have the same intention of, like, adding to their social circle at the same time, but if two people have gone to the same event meant to make connections, then I hope that eases your social anxiety just a little bit. If you think about the fact that both of you probably had the same goal if you used
• 32:21
  Jason Edmonds: your time, yeah, I also think about the worst case scenario is that, you know, maybe it just, it just it wasn't reciprocated, and work out that way, and that's fine, right?
• 32:32
  Jason Edmonds: Like we can kind of just like, you know, move on at the end of the day, it's kind of right back to where, where we started beforehand. So I think that reaching out, taking the next step part, is really important, but I understand that it can be very scary.
• 32:47
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Jason just hit on something that honestly trips up so many people that follow up after you meet someone you actually maybe want to be friends with, because when you can't rely on proximity, on seeing them at an activity that you go to weekly or work or you go daily, when there's no built in reason that you'll see each other again, you have to be the one to reach out and basically say, Hey, I thought you were cool. And that feels vulnerable, right? What if they didn't feel the same way about you? What if they're not trying to make new friends? Right? Now, I actually have an entire episode about this exact scenario, the awkwardness of making friends when you can't rely on proximity, which is episode 123 and some others that I think would help if you are in this scenario. I did one on reframing rejection, seeing it as someone rejecting your offer, not rejecting you. That's episode 145 and if you're sitting there convinced that the person that you met probably didn't enjoy talking to you as much as you enjoy talking to them, that's called the liking gap. And spoiler alert, you're probably being way harder on yourself than you should be. So go listen to episode 41 now I want to leave you with one other practical tip that stood out to me when Jason and I were talking, if you connect with someone and you happen to find them on social media, use that as your bridge. Send them a quick Hey, nice meeting, you.
• 34:23
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Message then actually engage.
• 34:23
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Comment on their new post, respond to a story. I'm not saying, Go back and like.
• 34:33
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Comment on posts from years ago, but if they post something, or if they have a recent post, engage with it. Think of it as research. Like, did they post about an activity you also enjoy? Maybe pickleball? Send them a message. Be like, Hey, I also love pickleball. Want to come play at the courts I usually go to now, not everyone's really active on social media and sharing regularly, but if they are use it, it could be such a natural way to ease into that connection and start to see the ways that you have shared interests and in a world that we live in today, we ought to take every opportunity we can to find those natural ways to connect.
• 35:15
  Alex Alexander: Do you think, because you mentioned social anxiety earlier, do you think the reaching out is maybe one of the biggest social anxiety points, or maybe going to your first event like, what do you think is one of those bigger hurdles for someone that's feeling some social anxiety?
• 35:33
  Jason Edmonds: I think going to your first event is probably even bigger. I think there are both points where social anxiety can come into play. I think one of the things that I think a lot about is missed connections. How many missed connections do we have? And do we want to live our lives with missed connections, right? So there's many different opportunities where you can miss a connection, right? You miss a connection by not even going out right? Or how many people could you be missing out on me? Mean just by, you know, staying at home and watching Netflix. And don't get me wrong, that's a great way to spend an evening.
• 36:09
  Jason Edmonds: I've definitely done my fair share of Netflix and by myself evenings. But how many connections Could you be missing out on? And then, you know, the other one is, yeah, have you met someone that was like, genuinely cool and you guys really like vibed if you guys never speak again, that could be a potential missed friendship or a misconnection as well. So that's how I kind of put it in my mind as well. Is like, I want to live my life as someone that doesn't have regrets and did the things that they wanted to do and put themselves out there, and even if it was awkward or it got burned a few times, like, at least, we flipped over to rock and saw what was on the other side. And so that's kind of my approach to making friendships as well. As, you know, you kind of have to, kind of put yourself out there.
• 36:58
  Alex Alexander: I think it's like any other life goal, right?
• 37:00
  Alex Alexander: Like, if you wanted to, if I wanted to, like, be stronger and be able to lift my desk up in front of me. I would need to go to the gym regularly, and I need to be uncomfortable, and I'd get sweaty and like, I would be sore. We have understandings that it is not going to be without friction, without, you know, some discomfort and changing up your social connections, as I'm sure you would agree, because you're like, just inside a year of having to rebuild after moving home, yeah, definitely has had some discomfort this year.
• 37:36
  Jason Edmonds: The other thing I want to say about that piece of like comfort in particular is, I think that so much of our technology and the way our world is manufactured is kind of built for comfort, like, oh yeah, we can just hide behind the screen and just, you know, scroll on Instagram for hours. Or we can use a dating app or Bumble BFF, right, where you can just kind of virtually swipe through people and text people, instead of actually going out and taking that risk to meet someone in real life, and that's why I'm such a big champion of, like, going going out and like meeting someone, because it kind of gets you a little bit uncomfortable, not in, like, a bad way, but I think that's where you truly, like learn more about yourself.
• 38:23
  Jason Edmonds: That's truly where you grow. And even in the past year, I feel like I've grown so much just by putting myself out there and meeting so many different people like in real life, I don't think I would have had the same growth if I were just texting them the entire time, talking about, you know, what future plans we might make then that this is no dig at like dating apps or technology or anything.
• 38:45
  Alex Alexander: It's okay. We can dig a little bit at technology.
• 38:50
  Jason Edmonds: I've totally had my fair share of those nights as well, but I do think that, you know, the true growth comes from putting yourself out there.
• 38:58
  Alex Alexander: I think there's this massive swing right where so much of college life is about your social life. In fact, I joke with my dad all the time that, like he paid for me to have friends, right? I have a public relations degree, which I kind of use for what I do now, not really, right? And college is a great skill set. He paid for me to have great lifelong friends, yeah. And I still am really close with a number of those friends today. And whether or not you're close, and they're lifelong friends, I don't think that's the measure of it. You have that walkability, you have that proximity. You see people at parties and in classes and in clubs and in the dining hall, right? You're just like, all together all the time, and you get really close with people.
• 39:46
  Alex Alexander: This is the other thing I think about college is like, it's a time where everybody tells you, like, take the risk, do the silly thing, stay up until 6am that's a lot of vulnerability.
• 39:59
  Alex Alexander: Because what happens when you stayed up until 6am did something really dumb and nearly got arrested, but got away with it, but had a final the next day that you bombed, and now you're telling your friend, and everybody's kind of laughing about it, but everybody also knows there's going to be repercussions about the fact that you failed this class, right? Yeah, it's just like all these life circumstances are just like, smashed together.
• 40:27
  Alex Alexander: Yep. Okay, yep. Level set. Now, so you make some pretty good friends one way or another in college, just by that like proximity and that built in vulnerability, yeah, whether they are your lifelong friends or not, doesn't matter. You experience some things with some people. Now, you've moved across the country. You're in Seattle, you're trying to make new friends. You are not with a bunch of people anymore, necessarily, who think it's totally normal to, like, mess up and fail your final right? The idea is like, Oh, you're an adult now, get your life together, and you're trying to make friends without proximity.
• 41:05
  Alex Alexander: Okay, and you just maybe aren't gonna get as close as fast as you did in college. Do you feel like there's been any whiplash with like expectations, with how close you're gonna be with people?
• 41:17
  Jason Edmonds: The narrative changes very fast. Alex, okay, okay, I will say that. So it's like, you know, I remember I was bragging to my friends in college about how I crammed my last three finals into like a 12 hour period, and I just, I had a six pack of Red Bull, and I went down in the space. I just, like, grinded from 9pm the 9am or whatever the case may be. And they're like, oh, that's sick, dude. Yeah. They're like, now if I was like, Oh yeah, like, I just totally blew off work today and procrastinated all my tasks and be like, dude, like, What the What are you doing? Like, that's really bad. So, yeah, I think that it definitely does change. I think the other thing that I'll kind of bring into this is that there are different seasons of life, right? And there are different, like, seasons of different friends.
• 42:06
  Jason Edmonds: And so the unique thing about college is everyone's kind of in that same situation where they're like, it's socially acceptable to like, do this, socially acceptable to get wasted on a Wednesday night.
• 42:20
  Jason Edmonds: It's socially acceptable to, you know, do all these things. And then when you kind of become an adult, you do have some people who kind of want an extension of college. You do have some other people who are like, Oh, I'm a real person now. I need to wear quarter zips and drink Matcha, you know, just really button up, right? And then you have some people who are somewhere in the middle, right? And so you gotta, you kind of have to search for those people who fit that season of life that you're in as well.
• 42:49
  Jason Edmonds: And I think that's something that's been hard for me to adjust to and learn a little bit is like, who am I? You know, what am I actually looking for in a friend? Because at the end of the day, it's a lot easier to find 100 people that I could party with than to find maybe five people that I could sit down and have a really good conversation at dinner with, yeah, and so that's something that I've kind of had to shift my mentality about in college and college like, you know, the more the merrier. The more friends I have, the better. And, you know, we can all go out and be a squad and do this and that.
• 43:22
  Jason Edmonds: But what I'm realizing now is that you want to find friends that really match where you're at and what what you're looking for in life.
• 43:29
  Alex Alexander: Man, what a swing. But I think you really encapsulated it really well, like, it hits hard. And I think so many people who have graduated, like, it's hard enough to figure out how to have a job and how to show up every day and how to, you know, handle your first performance review, but and then in the background, we have all this other stuff that somebody's navigating, yeah, and suddenly, like missing this whole social scene they had. I mean, you mentioned that earlier, right? You were just used to being busier, yep. And all it took was a plane ride.
• 44:06
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, though, literally, I like to say that college is kind of like freedom without the responsibility, and then adulthood is still freedom, but with responsibility, and that responsibility factor really changes things up, because, you know, you actually have real repercussions of everything that you're doing right, and people react to that differently. And so I think just introducing that variable, and then also on top of that, the proximity, also on top of that, I like that you mentioned the vulnerability piece as well. I also think that there is a little bit of pressure as someone in their early to mid 20s to kind of put up this not front, but put up this idea that, like, oh, you know, I got my stuff together, you know, I work this job, and I make good money, and I live in a nice apartment and things like that.
• 44:58
  Jason Edmonds: And you want to kind of show the best parts to put together parts about yourself, whereas in college, we're so much more comfortable, like showing all the not so put together parts about ourselves. And so I think that's another I know you talk about vulnerability and friendships a lot, so I'm sure you can tap into that, but that is a big difference.
• 45:19
  Alex Alexander: I mean, my advice to anybody would be like, try and find pockets where you just admit that. You know, shit hit the fan, whether that's close friends, whether that's like, one area of your life that you're just really honest with anybody you meet, however you do it. I think it humanizes you. I think it gives somebody something to connect over.
• 45:39
  Alex Alexander: Because it may not be the same area of life, but they might also suddenly be like, Oh yeah, I've actually been struggling with, yep, this right? And just those little things like help, let somebody feel like they're not alone, and then they let in.
• 45:53
  Alex Alexander: You know, I was even thinking, you know, when you were talking way back earlier, something that Six Degrees is doing really well is you have all these silly little activities, right? So you're talking about making gingerbread houses. Yeah, on the surface, that just seems like making a gingerbread house. But where my mind goes when you told me that earlier is that's such a great thing, because somebody sits down and for one to two hours they can kind of tap in to that. I'm, I mean, maybe, sorry, maybe somebody's an expert gingerbread house builder, I don't know, but what's more likely than not? Like, if I did that, right? I'm like, Oh, mine is kind of tipping over. Does somebody have super glue? Like, my Candy's falling off. It's all over the place. I ran out of candy because I didn't budget my candy correctly, and now one side of my house is pristine, and the other side, like, it's like a Jacqueline Hyde house, right? It's similar to what you were saying about that college finals thing, right? We're kind of admitting, yeah, we're letting it down because we're doing this activity together, and that's easier to do about a gingerbread house than it is to do I don't know about your performance review that didn't go well, or, yeah, that you didn't budget well this month, or whatever it is, but it's practice,
• 47:10
  Jason Edmonds: exactly, yeah, it's something, right? And first of all, the gingerbread house, that's exactly what happened to me. My thing collapsed, and like,
• 47:19
  Alex Alexander: yeah, we're, none of us are out here building gingerbread houses weekly, unless you're a pastry chef, you know?
• 47:25
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, yeah, I was, I was just getting completely destroyed. My thing collapsed, and I was like, well, this sucks, but, you know, the thing that made me actually feel better was, I want everyone to succeed, but it was kind of fun because other people's houses were also collapsing, and we were all like, you know, laughing about that together.
• 47:44
  Jason Edmonds: And that was a moment of that was a moment of bonding that it's pretty rare
• 47:49
  Alex Alexander: as an adult, I think it is rare you need to, like, find more of those little pockets, because I think, I believe that is, like, practice for the stuff that really matters, yes, and you know that is practice for, like, I mean, I don't want to drag the mood down, because gingerbread houses are fun, but, like, I have a friend who lost her husband this past summer, right? Everybody knows that that happened, that is like, slammed with vulnerability every area of her life, every friendship, every relationship, and you're like, Alex, how does a gingerbread house building help me, but it's like the more we practice not having it together, I think it does dull the the intensity of it a little bit when the big stuff happens, when I totally agree, it doesn't have to be losing your husband again, it could be, I Don't know you messed up an email to a client at work, and you can't stop thinking about it.
• 48:52
  Jason Edmonds: Yep. I also think that this vulnerability piece is more important than ever as you kind of transition into adulthood, because those types of situations where something bad happens, those bumps in the road are just, they happen a lot more, and it takes a real level of support and community to kind of go through that. I see so many people who, they just kind of go through their job and, you know, take things in stride. And this was me, actually, for my first few months living back in Seattle, was just like, I didn't let anyone in on my problems. I was just like, well, I'm an adult now, so I have to go and deal with it, and I have to just kind of figure it out, right? It was the same type of mentality when I was living in New York, and I lived in New York for around the year, but it was the same kind of mentality. Was like, okay, bad performance review. Just got to keep that to myself and keep on moving and keep working harder. And, you know, we're going to figure this out. But I think what we really miss in all of that is just the importance of letting somebody else know, right? Like letting us letting somebody that we care about know, like, hey, like, not everything is all sunshine and rainbows, and maybe from the outside, I look like I've gotten a promotion in the last two years, or whatever the case may be, but on the inside, like I've actually had a lot of really tough conversations with my boss, or I've actually, you know, almost been fired or something like that, right?
• 50:22
  Jason Edmonds: Like, and hearing those things from some of my friends, has been super rewarding for myself, because it shows that I've been able to create a supportive enough of an environment for them, where they were willing and open and able to tell me something that personal. And, you know, I have to respect that and obviously be there for them so that you you know, don't damage that. But I think to your point, that's super important.
• 50:50
  Alex Alexander: Like, that's great advice for anybody. And it could just be, you know, like, do it in little, little bits people, little bits like gingerbread houses, yeah, exactly. Work up to it. If it feels too much for you, yeah.
• 51:04
  Alex Alexander: The hardest part of any episode is how I tie this all up in a.
• 51:08
  Alex Alexander: Oh, and normally, I kind of struggle with it. Sometimes I am so excited about how I think I want to close this episode up, because I think it ties everything together that we've we've talked about today, and we've talked a lot about vulnerability. We've talked about Six Degrees. We've talked about you moving back to Seattle and like deciding that you wanted something different for your social circle than your current situation. Let's talk about the vulnerability that is kind of admitting that you are going to use an event, an app, a friendship matchmaker that you are listening to this podcast.
• 51:48
  Alex Alexander: There's kind of a stigma about needing help to make friends, yeah, and you are out here specifically, right? Like you said, You solved your own problem. So there also, maybe is, like another layer for you of publicly admitting you had this problem, and it was such a problem that you created an entire event. Can you talk a little bit about, like, the stigma of getting help to make friends and your experience, your experience?
• 52:17
  Jason Edmonds: Yeah, it's a really tough subject to talk about, really right, like you have to get vulnerable with yourself. But I think the biggest thing to know is that it's really not anybody's fault, like and I think that was the biggest thing that I had to tell myself, is it's not my fault for feeling this way. I think this whole podcast, we've kind of talked about all the difficulties that come with graduating college, moving to a new city, adjusting the post grad life, meeting new people, meeting new like minded people that fit into the exact season of life that you're kind of looking for. And there's really no blueprint or any thing that's telling you about how to do any of that. So I will not think of your My like I used to think of myself like, oh, maybe I'm some socially awkward person, maybe, like, oh, like, this is, this is my fault for not putting myself out there. But I want anyone who's listening to this to know that it is not your fault. And at the end of the day, you know, we are also wired for social connection. We're wired for community. We're wired for that sense of belonging and that sense of support. And my job, I feel, is just to give at least an option or some kind of blueprint that someone can follow. Yeah, it's not anyone's fault.
• 53:40
  Alex Alexander: It's not and in fact, there are so many factors out there, just like societal factors, right, lack of walkable communities, lack of third spaces. Like, not only is it, you're not socially awkward,
• 53:55
  Jason Edmonds: yeah. Oh, another point I wanted to make is that, like, I think a lot of people who come to the events, or thinking about coming to the events, might get the impression, or get the belief that, oh, you know, people at this event, they might be a little bit socially awkward, right? Or these are the people like, these are the people who, you know, can't make friends.
• 54:14
  Jason Edmonds: And I'm going to the event with the people who can't make friends, and I want you know that's also not true. Like, like we said earlier, like it's no one's fault. Like everyone here is, yes, they are looking to make friends, but they are also just very like normal people like yourself. Who are, you know, going through all of this?
• 54:35
  Alex Alexander: If someone believes that, let me give you a scenario. It could be that somebody is just maybe career is their main focus, and they're working wild hours. I'm talking like 1214, hour days, right?
• 54:46
  Alex Alexander: Yeah, and they've had to sacrifice a lot of other areas of their life, but they know that they need, like, some friends to blow off steam, to have some fun, to, like, think about something besides work, and maybe this is a way they outsource. It is. They're like, I don't have time to go bar hop around all over the place and make a million coffee dates, but I can commit to going to two Six Degrees events a month, yeah, to try and make some friends in this new city that I moved to, it could just be outsourcing.
• 55:22
  Alex Alexander: Yeah, there's so many reasons that somebody could decide
• 55:26
  Jason Edmonds: people jumped immediately to the worst possible conclusions a lot of times because of that, you know, social anxiety piece. But I would say the biggest percentage of people that we see at Six Degrees events are people who are brand new to the city, like, literally moved here within, like, the last two months. Yeah, and so, you know, if you just moved into the last two months, and Seattle is not like one of those, like, common cities like New York, like, you know how?
• 55:51
  Jason Edmonds: Like, when you go to New York, like, everyone knows somebody, New York, Seattle is not one of those cities. And so there's some people. There's genuinely just don't, like, know anyone in the city. They're not weird people whatsoever. It's just like, you know, that's, that's what. I would say is probably the most common, is someone who just moved here.
• 56:10
  Alex Alexander: There you go, see so many reasons somebody might decide. So don't just like assume that it's one thing or another. Yeah, yeah. Well, Jason, thank you so much for coming on, for chatting with me today. I'm really excited about this episode, and we're gonna tell everyone where to find you and where to find Six Degrees events, and I'm gonna come hang out with you at an event, so maybe some people see me there
• 56:36
  Jason Edmonds: Anytime. Yeah, of course, yeah. Thank you so much for the conversation, Alex.
• 56:41
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: Now I know that a lot of you don't live in Seattle. In fact, it's a pretty small contingent. Fun fact, I think four or 5% of listeners live in the same city as me. You're all over the world. So hi, hello, but if you are in the Seattle area and Jason's story resonated with you, definitely check out Six Degrees. You can find them on Instagram at Six Degrees. Dot space and check the show notes for discount code. Now, whether you are in Seattle or anywhere else, I want you to know something if you're listening to this and feeling that post-college social whiplash that Jason described so perfectly, you're not broken, you're not socially awkward, you're not failing at something that should be easy. The transition from college social life to adult friendship is jarring for almost everyone. One day, you're walking five minutes to your friend's dorm room, and the next day, you're texting back and forth about hanging out this weekend and knowing you're going to have to drive 30-plus-minutes and wondering if the hangout will even happen.
• 57:50
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: One day, vulnerability is celebrated, like staying up all night cramming for finals because you made some bad decisions, and then the next day, you feel the pressure to have everything together. It's a different game, and nobody gives you a rule book. So if this conversation hit home with you, if you are in this transition, I actually have another episode about this exact topic. Well, pretty close. I think my guest in that topic was couple years older, but very similar. It's way back in the archives. It's episode 21 and it might be exactly what you need to hear right now. The bottom line is this, needing to be intentional about friendship doesn't make you weird. Admitting that you want to make connections and feeling like you need some help doesn't make you pathetic. It makes you human. And Jason's right, you're probably not alone in feeling this way. In fact, you might be surprised how many people around you are feeling the exact same thing with that.
• 58:55
  Alex Alexander [Narration]: I'll see you next week.
• 58:59
  Podcast Intro/Outro: Thank you for listening to this episode of Friendship IRL. I am so honored to have these conversations with you. But don't let the chat die here. Send me a voice message. I created a special website just to chat with you. You can find it at alexalex.chat. You can also find me on Instagram. My handle, @itsalexalexander. Or go ahead and leave a review wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts. Now if you want to take this conversation a step further, send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting. And use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out. No need for a teary goodbye. I'll be back with a new episode next week.