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From Violins to Virtual Therapy: Melanie Wells' Journey · WhozYourMama

• 0:00
  Michelle: Welcome to who's your Mama, a podcast focusing on tomorrow's future, which are our kids, educators, teachers, parents, all encompassing with the goal of understanding that our brain is a muscle that we can exercise to control the speed in the direction that we want.
• 0:18
  Michelle: Let's go, y'all.
• 0:19
  Michelle: The time is now so, melanie Wells, welcome to who's your Mama.
• 0:24
  Michelle: Thank you so much for taking the time to be on here today.
• 0:28
  Melanie: Oh man, I'm so glad to be here.
• 0:29
  Melanie: Thanks for having me.
• 0:31
  Michelle: Absolutely so before we, because there's so much to talk about.
• 0:35
  Michelle: You've had such an extensive career and touched so many people, so I want to be as succinct as possible for the audience.
• 0:43
  Michelle: But before we dive deeper, can you tell a little bit about your background for the people that don't know?
• 0:52
  Melanie: Yeah.
• 0:52
  Melanie: So, going back into my full background a little bit, I'm from a small town, amarillo, texas, and grew up, raised by musicians in a very creative environment, which is not what you expect in a small town, and so that made me a creative thinker, which is what what you expect in a small town, and so that made me a creative thinker, which is what I'm still living on today.
• 1:09
  Melanie: And also, when you're in an orchestra or a band, you collaborate and everybody has their own parts to play, which is again what I still do today.
• 1:17
  Melanie: I just do that in the psychotherapy world.
• 1:19
  Melanie: So at this point, I own a company named Lifeology and we are a mental health and wellness practice with 19 locations around the US, and everybody at our locations is an expert in their area.
• 1:33
  Melanie: My particular area is last ditch couples counseling like couples on fire, and we work together as a team and give people the best possible care ever.
• 1:43
  Michelle: We work together as a team and give people the best possible care ever, very community, supportive type of networking to zone in on what people are coming in, to be proactive.
• 1:51
  Michelle: Or, like you said, if they're in your particular area, they're on fire.
• 1:58
  Michelle: So I find that fascinating.
• 1:59
  Michelle: Anyone that knows me any parts of life knows that I'm a firm believer that music and laughter very much can be therapy for the soul.
• 2:10
  Michelle: So, talking about your background with music, what, if any, role did that play in terms of your, like you said, growing up in a small town in Amarillo, texas?
• 2:19
  Michelle: How did that impact your journey to get to where you're at career wise?
• 2:25
  Melanie: How did that impact your journey to get to where you're at career wise?
• 2:27
  Melanie: Well, it's interesting because, um, so I grew up as a violinist Uh, we say fiddle because I'm in Texas.
• 2:36
  Melanie: I went to school, um SMU, on a violin performance scholarship, which is a pretty, you know tough gig to get, and um, grew up playing in symphonies and in jazz bands and listening to jazz and listening to Mahler, and that was what the culture of my family was really built on.
• 2:48
  Melanie: Was, you know, a very, very high level of performance with music?
• 2:54
  Melanie: And it turns out that it's.
• 2:56
  Melanie: And then I also write novels.
• 2:58
  Melanie: I don't know if you knew that about me, but I have to oh wow, ok.
• 3:00
  Michelle: Well, there's again a lot to dive into, so let's definitely get there.
• 3:17
  Melanie: You might be you might be coming on if you have time again voices and different characters and making sure that all of the pieces fit together and there's a beginning and a middle and an end, and there's an art to each session and there's an art to each case and there's an art to each symphony or movement or chapter.
• 3:35
  Melanie: And so developing characters and listening to voices and developing a narrative of something is something I grew up doing with a violin under my chin.
• 3:44
  Melanie: It's like oh, it's a metaphor for life it's a metaphor for um, or at least a matrix for creativity.
• 3:52
  Melanie: I think life has to be a creative endeavor if you're fluent in theory and worldview and technique, in the sense that I know why I'm doing what I'm doing and why I believe what I believe and, um, you know what tricks am I going to use to get there.
• 4:06
  Melanie: That's sort of the whole toolbox in terms of how to proceed with some sort of intention that also allows for just wild creativity.
• 4:15
  Melanie: So for me, that's sort of the infrastructure of how I move through everything.
• 4:21
  Michelle: So then, moving through that infrastructure, I like the way that you phrase that.
• 4:24
  Michelle: I think that's going to resonate with a lot of people.
• 4:26
  Michelle: Visually, I can see it in my mind.
• 4:28
  Michelle: Um, so then take us through the course of.
• 4:31
  Michelle: So you went to SMU on a violin scholarship.
• 4:36
  Michelle: I have no doubt, as somebody that does not play the violin and like and I say this very lightly I I took up guitar with my daughter I'm a single mama and she picked it up in fourth grade, started playing jingle bells and she was like.
• 4:51
  Michelle: I'm playing and I said, yeah, she's like you do it.
• 4:54
  Michelle: And I was like, oh, that's cute.
• 4:55
  Michelle: So we did that for a while.
• 4:57
  Michelle: She has much more of the creative genes than I do, but it brings me joy to watch that side of her come out and share it with her in ways that are innately in me and new for both of us and all of that.
• 5:14
  Michelle: So then take us through the next phases.
• 5:16
  Michelle: So you went to SMU and then how did you transition to going into what you're practicing now?
• 5:24
  Melanie: So I went to SMU on a violin performance scholarship and realized about five minutes after I got there I didn't want to play music for the rest of my life, for a living.
• 5:32
  Melanie: So that was why?
• 5:34
  Melanie: You know, there was a moment when I was sitting in the practice room in the basement by myself in the arts building playing, you know, a Beethoven sonata, I think it was, and I was thinking you know, this is a piece that's hundreds of years old, that millions of people have played and will play, and I don't see how this is going to make a difference in the universe for me.
• 5:54
  Michelle: So that's what you used.
• 5:55
  Michelle: That was part of your internal yeah, and you knew that you wanted to make a difference, just in a different way.
• 6:06
  Melanie: Yeah, my parents were musicians and my brothers were musicians, so I value the impact of music in the universe.
• 6:14
  Melanie: It just wasn't for me.
• 6:15
  Melanie: I wanted to move the needle in a different way.
• 6:17
  Melanie: I wanted to deal with human beings and I wanted to make the world a better place in a different milieu, if you will.
• 6:25
  Melanie: So the arts are wildly uplifting and change lives constantly.
• 6:33
  Melanie: For me it was more gonna be a ground level gritty thing and I wasn't sure what it was gonna be at the time.
• 6:39
  Melanie: But I got married right out of college, which seemed like a good idea at the time.
• 6:47
  Michelle: Oh, hindsight.
• 6:50
  Melanie: And then I went to actually Dallas Seminary and got a degree in biblical studies and theology, systematic theology, and while I was there I took one counseling class that was required and most of it was, you know, uh, not very helpful.
• 7:06
  Melanie: But the last couple of sessions were taught by a psychologist who was really a good clinical psychologist and I remember thinking, man, I can't believe this guy gets paid to do this all day.
• 7:14
  Melanie: This is my gig you've had her.
• 7:17
  Michelle: Like you know, whoever they are says that they light bulb.
• 7:20
  Michelle: Aha moment.
• 7:22
  Melanie: Uh, it finally clicked, yeah this is what I want to do.
• 7:25
  Melanie: This like putting on an old shoe.
• 7:26
  Melanie: This is what I should be doing.
• 7:27
  Melanie: So I went and got a second master's degree in systemic psychology and marriage and family therapy at Our Lady of the Lake University in San Antonio, which is built on a.
• 7:38
  Melanie: It's an unusual program that is built on this collaborative clinical model, which is what I still practice now.
• 7:43
  Melanie: So that whole journey with collaboration and different pieces and it all sort of fits together for me and it led to me doing things in my company in a very, very different way in what I consider is a very broken industry.
• 7:57
  Michelle: Yeah, I mean, there's so much to dive in there.
• 8:00
  Michelle: My background has been in medicine, from a sales and training and business development standpoint pharmaceutical industry, medical device, genetic testing, both psychology and cancer.
• 8:15
  Michelle: So part of talking about different broken systems and I mean no disrespect to anyone in the medical community, just to be clear is like you were talking about how to make a difference in a way that has so much changed.
• 8:31
  Michelle: You know, a huge motivation for me with who's your Mama is, I have a huge passion for kids, whether I was a mom or not.
• 8:37
  Michelle: It's just innately in me the acts of service, wanting to make a difference.
• 8:42
  Michelle: I talk about watering the grass where you're standing the water beyond and then spread that fertilizer.
• 8:48
  Michelle: That's just the core of my soul.
• 8:51
  Michelle: And then the kids being our future, and so looking at it from an education and parenting standpoint, but overall mental health and wellness, that community, collaborative type of mentality, I think a lot of people think if you hear, if they hear mental health, they think mental illness, right, and they're.
• 9:10
  Michelle: They can be synonymous, but they're not.
• 9:12
  Michelle: They're not necessarily so, but it's about having a proactive, preventative mindset.
• 9:18
  Michelle: I mean still to this day, my daughter's 15.
• 9:21
  Michelle: And when I have just like I like just really drilled certain things into her to know that when she flies away and spreads her wings and makes a difference in this world, she knows things like self-accountability.
• 9:36
  Michelle: The biggest form of treatment is prevention, like you were saying, working in that, that phase with couples when they get to that place.
• 9:43
  Michelle: That's part of what I really the mission of who's your Mama is helping at a younger age instill those tools in kids from a collaborative community approach to understand the mind is a muscle and how we reframe and what supportive systems can we have within ourself and when do we ask for help and know that we're not alone?
• 10:03
  Michelle: So do we ask for help and know that we're not alone?
• 10:05
  Michelle: So I commend you for all the work that you're doing and so, on that note, can you discuss a little bit about?
• 10:14
  Michelle: You said you deal with couples.
• 10:18
  Michelle: Does that involve kids as well, when they're in that 911 type of situation, and how do you manage that with the parents, whether it be a single parent or you know whatever that that is and then, and the kids too, what does that approach look like from the conversational standpoint?
• 10:37
  Melanie: yeah, that's a great question and it's it's a little bit of a controversial question because, as a couples therapist, you know people assume you go to marriage counseling to keep your marriage together, and not all marriages should stay together.
• 10:50
  Melanie: In my opinion, toxicity when it reaches a certain level, um, you can't dissipate it, and so sometimes the healthiest thing to do is to part in the healthiest way.
• 11:02
  Melanie: And so what I I'm going to go back to something you said a second ago is people think about mental health.
• 11:09
  Melanie: I would almost reframe that and say life health and brain health are really important I know you've worked in the cancer field and so if you think like if I have life cancer I'm going to go get help for that, right?
• 11:22
  Michelle: Yeah, yeah, yes.
• 11:24
  Michelle: I've never heard anyone all these years 20, you know, 20 plus years, I've never heard anyone reframe it like that.
• 11:31
  Michelle: I think that's going to resonate with a lot of people.
• 11:33
  Melanie: Yes, I think like is my life healthy and is my brain healthy?
• 11:39
  Melanie: Am I getting enough sleep, Am I eating and you know, uh, in a way that supports brain health.
• 11:44
  Melanie: There's so much brain science that we have in the last 10 years more than we did in 100 years before, so neurofitness is sort of its own thing.
• 11:52
  Melanie: But if you think about, instead of mental health which you're right, sort of implies mental illness, and mental illness is a thing.
• 12:00
  Melanie: I mean brains function in a certain way, just like organs do, and if you have schizophrenia, your brain is not functioning in an optimal way and you need some medical treatment and other support.
• 12:12
  Melanie: So mental illness is certainly a thing, but life health and life illness is a more, I think, accessible concept for people and my part of my mission as a clinician and if you've looked at our website, it's very accessible and it's fun and inviting because I feel like everybody is happy to call a mechanic or a plumber and you should also be happy to call a therapist if you, if you need some life health support, if that makes sense.
• 12:37
  Michelle: Yeah, it makes complete sense.
• 12:39
  Michelle: And again that watching things and I'm not trying to make this just about the pandemic and again that watching things and I'm not trying to make this just about the pandemic I think that trying to find relatability with people everyone went through the pandemic I would say, like cancer doesn't discriminate.
• 12:53
  Michelle: Yes, there are certain races and genders that are more prone to certain types, but the bottom line is is it does not.
• 12:59
  Michelle: So, we are all susceptible depending on certain things and so not trying to, you know, go in a rabbit hole with that.
• 13:06
  Michelle: But the same thing with the pandemic that we all went through it.
• 13:09
  Michelle: We've all had some version of PTSD I know you work with veterans as well and and trauma and things like that, and so is that more now than ever and I'm curious to hear your thoughts on on this.
• 13:23
  Michelle: I have seen in the last year people really starting to go what the flan flip every which way Sunday.
• 13:31
  Michelle: Clearly I'm from Texas too and is what?
• 13:36
  Michelle: What just happened?
• 13:37
  Michelle: You know what happened during that period of time in my life my marriage, you know my, you know my professional relationships, my, my child, my work, all of it and where am I at now and what can I do?
• 13:49
  Michelle: And being vulnerable and willing to share, and I do think that's one of the positive things that I want to embrace by supporting.
• 14:00
  Michelle: Positivity is using things like social media you know YouTube, those those sort of channels to be able to reach more people, to share, so people know they're not alone and that and I think when you, I mean that really resonates when you're talking about lifestyle, brain health, that doesn't put you in a bucket because I think we're so quick to label people and that's why I brought up the mental health versus mental illness, because you can have a mental illness and be mentally healthy, so it's not interchangeable.
• 14:33
  Michelle: But I think instinctively in society we put labels on ourselves and put us in buckets without even consciously at times realizing.
• 14:41
  Michelle: So the way you framed it like that, I think, is gonna resonate with a lot of people.
• 14:44
  Michelle: I mean, it definitely resonates with me.
• 14:56
  Melanie: So one of the things that you touched on was around neurofitness.
• 14:58
  Melanie: Can you expand on that?
• 14:59
  Melanie: Sure, it's interesting.
• 15:01
  Michelle: You brought up the pandemic because of course, everybody was crazy during the pandemic.
• 15:03
  Michelle: I do say I've had conversations with girlfriends.
• 15:05
  Michelle: She was, like you know, my one particular girlfriend, but there's actually several, like you know.
• 15:11
  Michelle: I feel like I'm I call it the C word.
• 15:13
  Michelle: I was like can we come up with another word for that?
• 15:16
  Michelle: We were not functioning at our highest level of self.
• 15:22
  Melanie: Well it was.
• 15:22
  Melanie: I thought it was a really interesting, obviously, and you know, disruptive time, but so many things I've watched so many things happen in my own life and in other people's lives and just sort of generally, one thing I noticed is that my FOMO went away.
• 15:39
  Melanie: So the anxiety I have about am I interesting enough?
• 15:43
  Melanie: Am I doing interesting on the week?
• 15:45
  Melanie: There's nothing to do, there's no place to go Right.
• 15:46
  Melanie: Am I interesting enough?
• 15:47
  Melanie: Am I doing interesting on the week?
• 15:49
  Melanie: There's nothing to do, there's no place to go Right?
• 15:52
  Melanie: Just being able to sort of relax in my skin was something that was sort of new to me.
• 15:55
  Melanie: So there was some relief about, you know, everything's shut down, so there's nothing to be done.
• 15:59
  Melanie: And then I watched some friends of mine get out there cellos and you know a surgeon friend of mine who was like his uh cello performance of a box sonata went viral because he's got his oh wow scribes on and he's playing this gorgeous cello piece, um, and people were doing that on balconies and I live on the 12th floor of a high rise and I watched the sky clear, which was really interesting because for For the first time.
• 16:26
  Michelle: Do you mean metaphorically speaking or literally?
• 16:31
  Melanie: All the pollution was gone, there were no airplanes.
• 16:33
  Melanie: I can see the streets.
• 16:34
  Melanie: There were no cars on the streets and there was something just very quiet and still about everything.
• 16:39
  Melanie: That was very clear.
• 16:40
  Melanie: And I don't know if you recall that in Venice the dolphins came back and the water, and so there was something about the pandemic that was settling in a way, but also it sort of stripped away whatever cushioning your life gave you.
• 16:58
  Melanie: That let you ignore the things that were happening in your life or in your home.
• 17:03
  Melanie: So when you're trapped in your house with your refrigerator and you have an eating disorder, that's a problem.
• 17:09
  Melanie: And when you're trapped in your house with your spouse and you have marital issues or relationship issues, they're going to you know that's.
• 17:18
  Melanie: Everything becomes and comes up in sharp relief.
• 17:21
  Melanie: And so, as you can imagine, we got really busy as a business during the pandemic, because yes, yes.
• 17:28
  Michelle: What was that like for you going from seeing patients and I don't assume anything, we predominantly before the pandemic seeing them face to face, yes, and then you shift to video.
• 17:42
  Michelle: So what was that transition like for you and your patients, specifically patients that you had previously seen face to face and then now didn't have that as an option for a period of time?
• 17:55
  Michelle: What was that like?
• 17:56
  Melanie: Yeah, it was interesting, and different clinicians chose to do different things.
• 17:59
  Melanie: I'm in Texas and so the rules were.
• 18:01
  Melanie: We were considered essential workers and so we were allowed to, you know, go to our workplace and people could choose to come in and be patients in real time if they wanted to.
• 18:09
  Melanie: Most of my people continued to come in and we pivoted, like all businesses did, and created six foot distances and put hand sanitizer around and all of that.
• 18:18
  Melanie: But um I what I noticed was that, especially with couples work, two people sitting on a screen, you're missing body language and all sorts of things, and also somebody can storm out, which they might not do if they were in my office.
• 18:36
  Michelle: So the accountability was different.
• 18:39
  Melanie: Very different.
• 18:39
  Melanie: Yeah, so there were some drawbacks to it, but on the other hand, I've had a couple that started right before the pandemic.
• 18:45
  Melanie: They ended up splitting up but the husband has never missed a session and he's been remote ever since then.
• 18:51
  Melanie: He's a C-suite executive at a Fortune 200 company and he can't leave his work every day or once a week, but he never misses a session.
• 19:01
  Melanie: So the pandemic sort of made it more accessible to everybody.
• 19:04
  Melanie: Made it more accessible to everybody and also sort of there are some, some specialties and some modalities that really aren't, I think, ideal done over Zoom and I think that's a real testimony to mental life strength of the commitment.
• 19:23
  Michelle: You know I often think about you.
• 19:26
  Michelle: Know, what are you willing to do?
• 19:28
  Michelle: And I say this to myself what are you willing to do for what you say you want in life?
• 19:35
  Melanie: Yeah, yeah, I always wear this necklace that says be the change, and that's based on that Gandhi quote be the change that you want to see in the world.
• 19:44
  Melanie: And I have to challenge myself Like, am I actually being the change that I want to see?
• 19:49
  Melanie: Am I being kind?
• 19:50
  Melanie: Am I being compassionate?
• 19:51
  Melanie: Have I been, kurt, today?
• 19:53
  Melanie: It's not just about, like, instigating change.
• 19:57
  Melanie: You know, through what you do for a living.
• 19:59
  Melanie: It's actually about walking around differently.
• 20:01
  Melanie: And so, getting back to the concept of having life health versus mental health, you know I have a daily yoga practice, for example and this I'm getting back to your neuro fitness question which contributes wildly to my neuro fitness.
• 20:20
  Melanie: Your neuro, your nervous system, is, of course, closely aligned with your physical body, and so, if you're tuning all that in well together, we know that cardiovascular fitness is a thing, well, neuro fitness is a thing as well, and so yoga, having a bilateral stimulation of the hemispheres of the brain and breath, work tied with movements of the body, and we know that if you slow your breathing down, you can just watch your blood pressure drop.
• 20:53
  Melanie: So there are ways to manage your nervous system that people don't generally access just by default.
• 21:01
  Melanie: So you can make your nervous system healthy or not healthy.
• 21:05
  Melanie: You can eat Cheetos and drink you know way too much alcohol and not move your body and not go outside, and the natural result of that will be that your nervous system is not as healthy as it could be.
• 21:19
  Melanie: So the inverse of that obviously would be to be moving your body and going outside and getting enough sleep and watching your alcohol intake and moving your body in a way that's conducive to brain health and life health.
• 21:38
  Melanie: So yoga and meditation and those things that bring you into the present are really wildly effective for managing your nervous system.
• 21:44
  Melanie: So that's something I preach constantly.
• 21:47
  Michelle: I love that.
• 21:48
  Michelle: It's interesting to me you were talking about breathing.
• 21:50
  Michelle: The good thing is we have choices in terms of like.
• 21:54
  Michelle: We all know whether we incorporate or not, the exercise is a positive life choice for our life, brain health.
• 22:02
  Michelle: And so I, uh, I used to run all the time.
• 22:08
  Michelle: I mean I played volleyball at a high level and then I ran, uh, until my body was like you've got, you've had two knee surgeries and I tore my hamstring and I literally mourned running like it was a family member.
• 22:22
  Michelle: And so much for my brain health.
• 22:26
  Michelle: I could work out almost anything when I would run, but for some people that sounds like their worst nightmare running.
• 22:33
  Michelle: You know we have choices.
• 22:35
  Michelle: So for me, yoga has not been something that has spoken to me, although recently meditation has been.
• 22:43
  Michelle: I have a routine that I've incorporated, probably the beginning of this year, before I go to bed that I found really powerful.
• 22:50
  Michelle: I go to sleep faster, I wake up with more clarity.
• 22:54
  Michelle: That's been fascinating for me to watch, because in sports I was meditating without even realizing I was meditating.
• 23:01
  Michelle: The visualization is just that.
• 23:02
  Michelle: I'm not trying to oversimplify the meditation is just that I'm not trying to oversimplify the meditation, but I didn't ever look at it like that.
• 23:08
  Michelle: So I was like what, what can I take up now that I'm not going to resent?
• 23:18
  Michelle: I don't want to resent what I'm doing.
• 23:19
  Michelle: I want it to be a positive, a complimentary thing to my life.
• 23:23
  Michelle: And so I started.
• 23:25
  Michelle: I met this beautiful man who was actually my first guest on who's your mama.
• 23:29
  Michelle: His name's John Crosby it's called John Cobra Crosby fitness and he used to professionally do kickboxing, commentary and MMA that sort of stuff and he's personal training.
• 23:41
  Michelle: So I happened to meet him and have started working with him one-on-one and he was teaching me about breathing and boxing and he has an incredible story and we're just kind of only halfway through with him.
• 23:56
  Michelle: But in terms of the breathing, he has asthma and uh, to a very, very, almost debilitating level it could be, except he trained his mind and his body to not have to rely on the inhaler, and to the extent that he would if he hadn't done training breathing, training through boxing.
• 24:18
  Michelle: So he was talking about the three breaths in.
• 24:22
  Michelle: But unlike some of this you know they correct me if I'm wrong with, because I'm not an expert in yoga is your mouth is not open as much when you breathe out.
• 24:33
  Michelle: With boxing it's slightly open and for him it could hit.
• 24:38
  Michelle: He said put your hand on your heart, you can feel it.
• 24:41
  Michelle: And so it comes to a different depth and I can tell you I have never worked so hard in 30 minutes.
• 24:47
  Michelle: It's fascinating what the breathing does, but the clarity and what I'm able to do, not just when I'm in the moment, but how that fuels me throughout my day, I never it's clarity in a way that I haven't had.
• 25:05
  Melanie: Yeah, it's really stunning.
• 25:06
  Melanie: And you can also, if you, in the inverse, you just imagine yourself sitting in traffic, for example, you're gonna sit in traffic, no matter what.
• 25:13
  Melanie: You can sit in static and be stressed and exasperated the whole time, or you can turn on the stereo and enjoy a peaceful half hour.
• 25:24
  Melanie: Right, so we can decide how we're going to experience something, right?
• 25:27
  Melanie: And if we also then add on the layer of how am I managing my nervous system and can I use my breath, for example, and my five senses to bring me into the present, and can I manage my nervous system by being in the moment and experiencing this moment as a pristine thing, so that I'm not either in the future or in the past, it really is a wonderful, it's a wonderful skill set to have.
• 26:01
  Melanie: And I'll just give you a little pro tip here like a little hack, nervous system hack.
• 26:06
  Melanie: Yes, please you, just when your mouth is closed, just remove your tongue from the roof of your mouth.
• 26:13
  Michelle: As you said, that my tongue was on the roof of my mouth.
• 26:17
  Melanie: When you remove it, you can feel your jaw relax.
• 26:21
  Michelle: Yes.
• 26:22
  Melanie: Breathe out.
• 26:22
  Melanie: At the same time, you can feel your whole nervous system settle down.
• 26:26
  Michelle: Wow Did you feel that, yes, I did.
• 26:29
  Michelle: Now it's giving me goosebumps.
• 26:31
  Michelle: Yeah, it's wild, oh my gosh.
• 26:33
  Michelle: Wow, yes, I did, now it's giving me goosebumps.
• 26:35
  Melanie: Yeah, it's why.
• 26:35
  Melanie: Wow, it's just a nervous system hack.
• 26:36
  Melanie: It's related to polyvagal theory.
• 26:39
  Melanie: I felt my shoulders drop.
• 26:41
  Melanie: You dropped Right.
• 26:42
  Michelle: Exactly.
• 26:47
  Melanie: And I do this a lot because people are really obviously highly stressed in my office and sometimes I'll just have them sit, take a breath, remove the tongue from the roof of your mouth and let's just settle for a second.
• 26:54
  Melanie: So settle your glitter.
• 26:55
  Melanie: I'm sure you've heard that term for kids yes, I have, yeah.
• 26:58
  Michelle: So, that's helpful with things you know, when you know trying to, you know, reframe our mind.
• 27:05
  Michelle: And you were talking about traffic.
• 27:08
  Michelle: Yeah, I live in LA and said no one ever I moved to LA because the traffic is so great.
• 27:15
  Michelle: That's a flippant no.
• 27:19
  Michelle: So I think that's a tool.
• 27:21
  Michelle: What you were talking about with the tongue and the dropping the shoulders, that just that Also.
• 27:27
  Michelle: I think people go through so much thing, so much in their mind, which then does create that traffic, literally and figuratively, accidents, things like that.
• 27:37
  Michelle: And I I know that I've spoken to some people and I've driven all over Southern California over the last 10 years and much longer than I I've cared to at times, but I've had so much going on in my mind and one of the things that that maybe you can expand on this, that's really stuck with me over the years is hearing that you know, understanding the feelings, the same, but the situation is different when we're really trying to reframe my mind.
• 28:05
  Michelle: I, when I'm trying to, and I'm sure that, with so many others, can you expand on that if that resonates.
• 28:13
  Melanie: Sure, yeah, one of the things I do with, with the couples that I work with, is I always do a family background session because I want to get to know everything.
• 28:20
  Melanie: All behavior makes sense in context and, if I understand the context of the person sitting in front of me, if they grew up, for example, in a family with a dominant family member, that could be somebody who's an alcoholic or somebody who's violent or has a mental illness.
• 28:36
  Melanie: You know, pick something.
• 28:37
  Melanie: Then that person, generally speaking in fact I'm just going to say a hundred percent of the time we'll be able to develop a hypersensitive radar in childhood and they'll be able to tell, by the way that keys hit the kitchen table, before they ever see anybody's face, what kind of mood that person's going to be in, and they're going to learn to adjust to keep that person from doing whatever it is that they do when they're not protective mechanism of yeah yeah, and so that's a protective mechanism in childhood.
• 29:09
  Melanie: But if you take that into your adulthood and now you're in a relationship with somebody who's not dangerous and who may not be dominant but you still have that same level of anxiety that there might be something wrong, you might that whole anxiety about I can't be okay unless you're okay.
• 29:23
  Melanie: Well, that's a legit thing in childhood, but and it makes sense bringing it into context, context in your adulthood.
• 29:41
  Melanie: And now let's try to fix that because it's not helping this relationship, it's not a healthy, um, you know, uh, interaction in this relationship.
• 29:49
  Melanie: So that's a small example of what.
• 29:52
  Melanie: What I mean by something.
• 29:55
  Melanie: It's not.
• 29:55
  Melanie: It may feel the same, but it isn't the same.
• 29:58
  Melanie: And then if you, if you bring that forward a generation I'm going to go back to a question you asked me a little while ago.
• 30:03
  Melanie: When I'm working with couples, I'm always thinking what do I not want their kids to tell their therapist in years about this experience?
• 30:16
  Melanie: My parents went to therapy but nobody ever confronted my dad or my parents went to therapy and nobody talked about my mother's drinking Right.
• 30:26
  Melanie: My parents went to therapy and, you know, the therapist never brought me in, never listened to me.
• 30:33
  Michelle: So voice and then they carried that into their adulthood.
• 30:37
  Michelle: I think that is because I would love to dive further in with you on that, because that really embodies what my mission is behind who's your mama is the core being the kids that then grow up to be young adults, then they grow up to be adults and having these type of tools and the understanding at a younger age, we very much share in that mission to make a difference from a community all hands on deck perspective.
• 31:09
  Michelle: So, on that note, thank you so much, melanie, for coming on here.
• 31:13
  Michelle: I'm going to be thinking about that Just the tongue at the roof of the mouth is blowing my mind and I'm going to share it with my daughter and I would love, when you're very busy, making a difference career allows to have you come back on who's your Mama.
• 31:32
  Melanie: Right, I'd love to come back.
• 31:33
  Melanie: Thank you so much for having me thank you so much.
• 31:35
  Michelle: Have a good rest of your day and weekend.
• 31:37
  Michelle: Thank you for tuning in to who's your mama and I look forward to collaborating from a community standpoint for the next episodes.