Latest / The Modern Hotelier / #322: Boutique Service, Authentic Design, and Cultivating Hospitality’s Future | David Bowd of Salt Hotels
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- The Modern Hotelier #322: Boutique Service, Authentic Design, and Cultivating Hospitality’s Future | David Bowd of Salt Hotels === David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Don't forget to follow, like, subscribe, and let us know in the comments what you think about today's episode. Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran: Yeah, David. Checking off a bucket list with this one. This is someone who we've wanted to have on for quite a while, our friend David Bowd, the co-founder and owner of Salt Hotels. Thanks for joining us, David. How we doing today? David Bowd: Very well, thanks, Steve. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. David Millili: All right, so David, we're gonna jump in. We're gonna go through a lightning round. We're gonna get to know your background, your career, and then we're gonna dive into some industry topics. Sound good? David Bowd: Great. David Millili: All right. So when you were young, what did you want to be when you grew up? David Bowd: I always wanted to be a chef. David Millili: Okay. That's good. What's something that you wish you were better at? David Bowd: I wish I was better at languages. David Millili: That's a good one. What's a luxury you can't live without? David Bowd: Luxury that I can't live without. Oh, wow. That's a great one. I think my luxury that I can't live without is air travel. David Millili: Got it. Okay. So name a person dead or alive that you would like to take to lunch. David Bowd: I would like to take Mother Teresa to lunch. David Millili: That's a great one. If you could have a superpower, what superpower would you like to have? David Bowd: Oh, I would love a superpower, and I'd love to be invisible. David Millili: Oh, that's a good one. All right, this is the last one. What's something that's on your bucket list? David Bowd: To go on safari. I've never been on safari. Steve Carran: That's a great answer. Great answer. So now we're gonna dive into your personal background, a little bit more about you. So I think I know how you came up with the name of your hotel group. You grew up in Salt, a small village in Staffordshire, England, which is roughly about 60 miles from Manchester. How did growing up in Salt shape you into who you are today, aside from the hotel name? David Bowd: You know, growing up in a small village, I think it helped shape me because, well, primarily it shaped me because in the village there is a beautiful, very small pub. And I think all of us in my family at some point, except my father, have worked in this pub. My mother did at some point, my brother, my sister, and then I did. And I worked in the kitchen, and that was really where I got my love of food, and I think really my love of hospitality. And so yeah, that was my first taste of working in our industry. David Millili: Great. You did not enjoy traditional school and left high school at 16 without pursuing formal higher education. You accepted a hotel management trainee position at a luxury hotel in Wiltshire, which I hope I said that right. What made you leave school and pursue a career in hotels? David Bowd: You're right. I didn't like traditional education. I still don't. I'm one of those people if I have to do a test or an exam in any way at all, I will flunk it. I'm terrible at it. I get very nervous, very tense. And I just... I loved the people at school. I just didn't love school itself. And when I came to high school, there was an opportunity that I could either go on to further education, or I saw an advert for this luxury hotel looking for a management trainee. And to me, it just, it was a perfect fit. It was almost like it was put in the local paper specifically for me. And yeah. And when I went for the interview, when I met the team, the team at the hotel, it was just meant to be a great opportunity. Steve Carran: So you mentioned that you always wanted to be a chef and you were a chef in the pub. I understand that you worked in the kitchen at a hotel and after a day realized it wasn't for you and decided to work in the hotel. Is that right? David Bowd: Yes. I had to wait until I was... I wasn't, at that time, you couldn't work in a commercial kitchen until you were 17 years old. And so I waited until I was just 17 years old, and then I was allowed to move into the kitchen. And I was so excited to move into the kitchen, and then on my first day, I realized that, wow, this isn't for me. And it was a couple of things that really hit me. It was just the atmosphere. It was a very, it was a fine dining restaurant, an incredible chef, but a really tough chef. And, you know, every very sort of Gordon Ramsay-like chef. And you couple that with this intense heat of the kitchen. I just was like, "This isn't for me." And I did carry on for, I think I did about eight months in the kitchen and just to see if this was... Well, I couldn't move, but just to also see if it was just day one that I didn't like it. And I learnt a lot, but I learnt also that I was much more suited to be front of house. Steve Carran: Fair enough. Fair enough. And I also have heard that you're a self-described fanatical music lover with a huge vinyl collection. What's your most prized record in your collection, and who is your favorite artist you've ever seen live? David Bowd: I think, my favorite record is David Bowie, at Glastonbury, Live at Glastonbury. And I think on vinyl, the tone and the depth of him just comes through incredibly. My favorite artist live, and I didn't get to see David Bowie live. I think he would've probably been the answer to both of those questions had I. I was fortunate enough to go to Live Aid, way, way back, and so I saw Freddie Mercury and Queen. And so nothing, until very recently came anywhere close to the power that Freddie Mercury oozes off stage. But I recently went to a concert of the British singer Raye, and she is also electric and one of the best performers I've ever seen. Steve Carran: That scene in Bohemian Rhapsody where Queen performs at Live Aid gives me chills all the time. As soon as his producer, manager, I believe, turns up that volume more, I'm like, it gives me chills. Awesome. I'm jealous you were there. But awesome experience. So now we're gonna dive into your career, how you got to be the co-founder of Salt Hotels. So you began your career at Melia White House Hotel in London, progressing from deputy general manager into leadership roles with Sol Melia, Rank Group, and Thistle Hotels. What did you learn in those earlier days as a GM that you still take with you today? David Bowd: I think what I learned is it's all about people. It's all... Everything we do is about the team that we do it with. And nobody, and I don't care who you are and what position you're in, nobody can do it alone. And I think that when you're first a GM, it's very isolated, and isolating. You suddenly realize that you've been working for this position your entire career. For me, it was 15, 16 years it took me to become a GM. And then I got there, and I sort of sat in the office, and then that's it. You're in the office and you're on your own. And I learned very quickly that I needed to achieve anything. I needed to work with the team, and learn from the team as much as the team learned from me. Steve Carran: Great answer. David Millili: Great. And so at Morgans Hotel Group, you led two of London's most influential lifestyle hotels, St. Martin's Lane and Sanderson, before moving into a senior vice president of operations role. How did your experience inside those properties change the way you thought about design, service, and what makes a hotel culturally relevant? David Bowd: I think, you know, those hotels were-- And I was very fortunate that I ran them in both of them in their prime. It was a great time, and they were both new. They were really the first true boutique hotels in London. So everyone wanted to stay there. Everyone wanted to visit there. It was the days before social media, so the bars and restaurants and nightclubs were very different from how they are today. And the atmosphere was, every night was one great big party. So I, when I left the hotels and I moved into a corporate role, I was very aware that, you know, everything that even though I was in the corporate role now, everything that happens in a hotel company is happening in the hotel, and we must always remember that. And so that was sort of the fundamental piece. When it comes to design, when I started at St. Martin's Lane and Sanderson, I was fascinated by Ian Schrager and design. I'd been to Delano many years before that and fallen in love with it. That was the first boutique hotel I'd ever walked into. It was phenomenal. And Sanderson was so precise that we even had, you know, nail marks, four nail marks on the floor for where the four legs would go of the chair or of a certain chair in the lobby. It was that precise. And I was always very proud that when I left Sanderson and St. Martin's Lane, they looked, from a guest point of view, they looked exactly the same as they did the day I arrived. And I think they did for a long time. Steve Carran: That's great. And you must have manifested your next career move 'cause from there you moved on to become the managing director at Ian Schrager Company, and then chief operating officer of hotels at André Balazs Properties. How did working with these iconic lifestyle hospitality brands influence you? David Bowd: I mean it incredibly that the influence of those two, I was very, very fortunate. And I look back, I don't think I realized at the time how fortunate I was to have been in such close proximity to both of them and really being able to learn. I think I learned very different things from both of them. But I think the thing that obviously design passion comes through on both of them. The attention to detail was something that both of them are absolutely relentless on. And that stuck with me. That stuck with me my entire career, down to I tell the story of which way the pencils point next to the bed in a bedroom, and they're like, "And why? Why Ian pointed them in a certain direction." And that fascinated me. And it stayed with me that everything has a story. And so I think that their influences, I hear myself saying certain things, and I'm like, "Oh, I sound like Ian," or, "I sound like Andre." But I think that they are both incredible hoteliers, and the properties that they have created are ones that we will talk about forever, I think. Steve Carran: Absolutely. So I do have to ask, what way did the pencils face and why did they face that way? David Bowd: They faced towards the wall. So the lead would face away from the guest so that the sharp end, the pointed end would not be pointed at the guest. So the sort of aggressive end would be pointed away from the guest, so it's softer for them. Steve Carran: Awesome. Smart, smart. David Millili: We'll never look at, we'll never look at pens or pencils on a nightstand the same way for the rest of our life. So in 2011, you co-founded Salt Hotels. So what inspired you to start your own hospitality company, and how did you define the identity you wanted to have? David Bowd: Well, it's funny because in all honesty, the initial thought was that it was going to be one hotel and I was going to take life a lot easier. I was going to walk on the beach every day. I was going to get a dog, and that was gonna be my life. And so that was how it started. Obviously it didn't materialize and end in that way. But I always felt in the very early stages, and again, this is 15 years ago, but in the early stages of the boutique hotel revolution that there was a big gap between design and service. Everything that was being done in boutique or lifestyle hotels was all focused on design. Nobody was focusing on service and design. And I felt that we had an opportunity to bring both of those two together. And Kevin, the co-founder, we felt that. And we wanted to bring the personalized service, the belonging of a community of a bed and breakfast with the beautiful design of a New York style hotel, and bring those two together. And then I think you had the perfect recipe, and that was really what we put together for our first hotel. And were renovating and we got a call about a month before we opened, and we were so not ready to open. I mean, half of the hotel wasn't finished. And we got a call to say The Today Show is doing a piece on Cape Cod. They want to feature you. And so that was our introduction. We were on The Today Show and suddenly it was the days when everyone phoned. Suddenly the phones were ringing off the hook and we were full for the summer. So it was a great start. Steve Carran: Wow. That's awesome. You might not have got the relaxing lifestyle, but you got the dog, right? David Bowd: Exactly. He came three years ago. So he came 12 years later than planned. Steve Carran: At least, at least you got them. But, so for those that might not be familiar with Salt Hotels, can you share a little bit more about what y'all do? David Bowd: Absolutely. So, as I say, I mean, Salt Hotels is a smaller boutique lifestyle hotels really focused on the communities that they're in, fitting, working with the local communities. Right now we have three hotels. We have Litchfield, Connecticut, Provincetown, Massachusetts, and Nantucket, Massachusetts. We have quite a few under development right now, and we'll be opening a few over the next couple of years. We really have a high level of service and a great level of design. We were very fortunate that when Michelin launched their Keys, that we had a few more hotels at that point, and we had four of our hotels were given Keys, which I think was probably about 80% of our rooms at that time. And I think that was demonstrating just how seriously and how intimately we focused on the service side of the guest experience. Steve Carran: Incredible. Congratulations on the Michelin keys. That is a great accomplishment. This episode is sponsored by Sip Tea. Most hotels serve tea. Sip Tea helps independent hotels create a tea experience guests actually remember. Through property-owned signature tea rituals, Sip Tea transforms an ordinary beverage into a meaningful part of the guest journey. From arrival and lobby service to guest rooms, spas, and evening rituals, each experience is shaped around the property's identity and designed to be simple for hospitality teams to deliver consistently. Supported by hospitality growth partner Signaltide, Sip Tea helps independent properties turn overlooked guest experience gaps into stronger loyalty, differentiation, and revenue. Discover Sip Tea at the Independent Hotel Show Miami, September 16th and 17th at booth 255, or visit sip-tea-path.com. Steve Carran: Well, I've been looking forward to this section all week. So now we're diving into the industry thoughts, the thought leadership part of the podcast. So the first question I have for you, is the traditional hotel management company model still the best solution for independent hotel owners? David Bowd: I like this question because I think it's something that isn't talked about an awful lot, and the traditional hotel management contract used to be 10 years or 20 years, and in some cases I've seen 30-year management contracts. And I think the market has changed significantly now. A lot of owners are not looking for the longevity of a contract like that. They used to be hands-off. I think a lot more owners now want to be involved, can be involved. They can learn a lot more about the industry through social media, through AI, through the internet in general, and there's a lot more questions. I think for us, it's more about collaboration than it ever was before. And I think with that comes often small, lesser time, shorter management contracts. And I think that it used to be a one-size-fits-all model, and I think that's the biggest change. And I think there's companies like Highgate, which I think were really interesting the way that they approached it, which was that they had much shorter management contract periods. And their philosophy was, "We believe in ourselves. We believe that at the end of the contract you're gonna want to stay with us, and so we're not really focused-- We don't need to focus on that this has to be 10 years' time." And they were really successful with that model. Very few people left them at the end of their contract. So I think that to me, part of it is really the length of the contract. And then the other piece is not everything needs to have a management contract. We got into a contract recently. We were asked to manage a hotel and it wasn't a fit for us. But we really liked the people that were doing the hotel. And so we met with them a few times and we tried to figure out, you know, how we could help them. They ... In the end, they got another management company in. A year later, they called me back and said, "This isn't working." Are you sure you don't want to be, do this management contract? And so we met again and, again, it still wasn't right. But they, one of the things that they had changed, they felt that they could, with a really strong leader and a strong executive team, that they could do without a management company. And, but they would need a lot of help and a lot of support. And so we took on that sort of support role and transitioned them from a management company into a self-managed position, and helped them set up a lot of procedures, a lot of policies. And it's a very small hotel, and so it really worked for them. It didn't really make a lot of sense for them to be paying a management fee and everything else on top of their expenses that they had, and it's worked out so well that they're able to. We're on a retainer. They're able to just sort of call us when there's a weird and wonderful problem. But we found them a GM, we found their leadership team, and I think that's another way of looking at management of hotels. You've obviously got to have owners who want to be involved because they have to be involved. But I think it's an interesting way. David Millili: That makes sense. And so in an age where almost every hotel looks beautiful on Instagram, social media, online, what actually creates a hotel that people remember? David Bowd: You know, every hotel is photographed to death now, particularly when it opened. You see it everywhere. And I think memorable hotels are talked about and talked about for years, and I think that's the biggest difference. And I think what people talk about are the people in the hotel and the service, and that's what makes... That's the soul. When we open a hotel, I often do the last-- Before we open the doors, we talk about the design team have built this beautiful hotel. It is stunning, but it's just things. It's beautiful things, but it's just things. Now we need to bring it to life, and the only thing that can bring it to life are the people and give it the personality, give it the energy that it needs to be successful. And so for me, again, it's all about the people in there. That's what makes a memorable hotel. You know, I think people, a lot of people get stuck on everything has to be perfect. And I use this example. We recently had a flood in our hotel and a couple that was celebrating their 40th wedding anniversary, and he had been on the phone literally for days and days and days. He really wanted this to be so special for his wife. And of course, because of that, this is where the flood is and have to happen that way. So they were woken up. The flood affected the fire alarms. The fire alarms went off at 4:00 a.m. They didn't get to sleep. So we're all trying to deal with this flood. We're all trying to deal with the fire alarms. They're not happy. But they also understand there's not really anything anyone could do. And over the course of that day, you know, we got them in, we got them sorted out. We got them into another room, another wing of the hotel. We said we took their breakfast up to their room. We got them all relaxed. They were going for dinner in one of our favorite restaurants that night. We called the restaurant owner. We got them the best table in the restaurant. It was their anniversary that day. They had the best possible dinner that they could have. They absolutely loved it, and when they left, they said, "This was the best anniversary that we could ever have." And it all started with a disaster, but it's the service recovery piece. It's the, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect because imperfections often make things feel real and authentic. And I think we all forget that, and we are all striving for this perfection, whereas, you know, as long as everybody's doing the best that they can possibly do, that's what makes memorable guest stays. Recognition, using people's names, those are the sorts of things that really make stays memorable and make our guests feel that they belong there by coming back and it's, and it's, "Welcome back, Steve," and, you know, we've put you in this room because we know you like this room. Steve Carran: Well said. Well said. So you mentioned how hotels can feel unauthentic, but how do you create an independent hotel that does feel authentic while also delivering commercial success? David Bowd: Yeah. That's probably the number one focus that all of the independent hoteliers talk about and opine over. It has got, with distribution channels, it has got so much easier than it used to be. You know? It used to be so few distribution channels and you had to be part of the main players. Now I think that you can do a lot of the groundwork yourself, have a great sales team, get into a lot of the programs yourself, so you're sort of self doing that discipline. I think you've really got to focus on visibility. For us, we really start the ball rolling with PR. When we open a hotel, really focus on the PR side of things, use the best PR agency that we can find, sometimes two, sometimes a national and a local, depending on where we are, and have them really help us get into as much, as much both print and online opportunities as we possibly can. And that never ends. You know? We are always focusing on... I was doing an interview this morning to get to... In a, for an article that's gonna come out next September. So, you know, it's always still at the top of our focus, to do anything PR related. As I mentioned Michelin earlier on, you know, being part of the Michelin program, being part of Tablet, being part of Mr. Mrs. Smith, American Express, you know, they are all, they're all OTAs, they are just good, great OTAs. You know, I don't think anyone should rule out Expedia and Booking.com. They are, they are great sources of business, and when a lot of people go onto Expedia and Booking.com to look at a destination and see what hotels are there, and, you know, if you're on there, a lot of them actually book direct. So they'll sort of see you on there, and then they'll go to your own website, and then they'll book direct. But you're getting this exposure, you're getting in front of people, and if you weren't on those, you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't get that booking. So I think it's really important that you are in as many programs as you can possibly be. And I don't think... I think ultimately if you try and beat Marriott or Hilton, and if... You're gonna fail. So, you know, don't even, don't even consider that. Though they are giants, and they have worked long and hard to get where they are today and to have the millions and millions of members that they have. And when I'm talking to an investor, I also remind the investor of how much they have to pay for those services and that distribution, whereas as an independent hotel, we don't have to pay that. So that makes sort of quite a difference to the bottom line as well. Steve Carran: Well said. So the big topic that probably, not only in hospitality but all over is AI. How do you think technology and AI has shaped hotels? And has it made hospitality better or us to forget what hospitality actually is? David Bowd: You're right. It's the thing that everybody's talking about. I think personally it's made me better. I use it as a tool to learn about things that I didn't know about before. Perhaps if I'm writing something, if I'm doing a presentation, I use it to tweak that presentation and it makes it a lot better than it was before I put it in there. That's for sure. I think AI should be just another tool that we have. I think the failure comes when it's used to replace. And sometimes it can replace, but you know... Recently there was a situation where an owner wanted to replace the PBX system so that the phones were going to be replaced with AI. And they had a great AI system. They used it in another industry, and so they shifted onto that. And on the whole, it was really successful, but this was a luxury property and guests didn't feel that this was luxurious in any way at all. They didn't feel that this was personal. We were very honest with, "This is a recording. This is not real. You're not talking to somebody real." So... Because I felt that that was really important that you started with that when you got to it. But I think the biggest thing that we learned was you can't judge what the other person, how, what is the tone of their voice, whereas when you're talking to them, you can. So if you've got somebody who's annoyed on the phone because they've spoken to three people and their problem still isn't solved, then you know it when you're talking to them on the phone. AI doesn't know that, and it can't tell that, and so that, I think, is where some of the problems really come in. And so, again, I think if we're using AI as a guest history tool, so we can learn about our guests, we can have more information about what they like, what they don't like, things like that, I think it's solid. It's a great opportunity for us to have. But I think we've got to be really careful that we don't use it constantly as a replacement and as a money saver, because I think people come to stay in a hotel because they want hospitality. I don't think they come to stay in a hotel 'cause they want a robot coming down the corridor delivering a towel personally. David Millili: And so what do you think our industry gets wrong when it comes to developing the next generation of hospitality leaders? David Bowd: I'm very passionate about this subject. I think it stems from the lack of education that I personally had in my early life and how can I help now other people develop and learn in their careers. I think that we don't spend enough time teaching, and we don't spend enough time attracting people into the industry. And then once we get them in the industry, we're not very good at keeping them by teaching them. You know, I have friends that are in the banking industry, and they are all on certain programs that they, you know, after two years they do this course, after three years they do this course, and it's very structured. Very few hotels and hotel companies are doing things like that. And so I think there needs to be more structured training. To me, a lot of leadership is learnt on the job, so I think you learn from mentors, having great mentors. We used to, 20 years ago, the GM would have a lot more time to be around the hotel, to be, you know, talking to the team members, talking to the heads of departments, teaching them. And I think that we've lost that because the GMs now are writing reports, are doing many other things. And so we need to replace that with somebody. Somebody needs to replace it. And it's not a computer. It's a person. It's watching them actually deal with a true scenario, and then giving them feedback how they dealt with it. You know, that's how we all learned, and then we go on and we do it better the next time. We all make mistakes, that's fine, but let's learn from them. I think that's the most important piece. And I just don't think there's enough of that that goes on. And attracting people to the industry. You know, we did Salt School. There are other, there are other educational programs that are out there that other people have done, which are phenomenal. But, you know, it's an industry that you don't have to be super qualified to join. I think you can join at most levels, with a basic education and a lot of people don't know that. So we have to, you know, we have to get that word out. It can be moms returning to work. It can be, we did a program which was very successful a few years ago, because we had a military camp near the hotel. We did military wives, and we had tons of them working with us. And they loved it because they had a job and they didn't, you know, we... But we knew that they were gonna leave, you know, maybe eight months later. We knew that. But in those eight months, they were phenomenal. So I think, you know, it's being flexible, and having, looking at it with a slightly different lens to the normal standard lens. David Millili: So you gave a great answer on what the industry is getting wrong about the next generation, but for that next generation, what's one piece of advice that you'd give to someone who's just starting their journey towards becoming a hospitality leader? David Bowd: I think, and this is probably, I should have said this to myself as well when I was back there. But there's a need right now to get very quickly up the ladder, and I think learning hospitality, learning leadership, learning the skills of every department takes some time. There's no hurry. You're a better leader when you've got a little bit more experience. This is one of the best industries to work in to have fun. My oldest friends, all of my oldest friends are the friends that I was a front desk agent with back in 1985. They know everything about me, I know everything about them, and we can never fall out. That's the beauty of this industry is it's great fun and so enjoy it. Steve Carran: That is great advice. Great advice. Well, David, this has been a very insightful and fun conversation. This is the part of the podcast where we turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question. David Bowd: What was the worst interview you have done and why? David Millili: I'll start, Steve? Well, I will classify it as one that's aired that we've actually distributed. We had one person that, no matter what question we asked them, they just kept pitching their company. So it was never about like, "How does AI help?" It was like, you know, if you were an AI company, it's like, "Well, XYZ AI helps because it does the following." So that person, no matter what we asked, and I won't say if it was male or female, they continually went back to what their company did. Even if the question had nothing to do with their response, they just went into sales mode, and it was, to me, those are the worst. We've maybe had two I felt have been out of 300 plus that have been a little salesy. So, so anyway, so that was mine. Steve Carran: Yeah. I gotta go with one, had someone on and it was basically them talking about how great they were the whole time, and it was like when you... It's like when you're talking to that one person you, like, run into at a conference and it's like, "Oh, how's life?" "Oh, I'm number one at this. I'm the best salesperson and, you know, I'm awesome." And it just was-- It wasn't as educational as I would've liked it to be and more of a engaging conversation. It was, they came on and bragged about themselves for a good 30 to 45 minutes. So that was probably one of mine that wasn't my favorite. David Millili: Good question. Steve Carran: We've never had that one before, so that was a good one. So our producer, Jon, he's been listening this whole time. We're gonna kick it over to him for the last question before we get you out of here. Jon Bumhoffer: First off, David, great question. Put them on the spot. You know, try to get them in a little bit of trouble. I like that. Your resume is pretty impressive with having worked with Ian Schrager and André Balazs, and so you've, like, from a design perspective, have seen some incredible places and properties, and have kind of seen the insight into that. I'm curious, what inspires you? And looking at the Salt portfolio too, it looks really awesome, and very design-forward too, and kinda like that very comfortable design-forward vibe though. What inspires you, and what are you looking for, as far as design inside of Salt Hotels? David Bowd: I think you just, you did describe it quite well, but it's what I would class as thoughtful design. What annoys me more than anything else is when I go somewhere and it's a beautiful room, and then I can't get to the plug socket, or it's got, you know, super fancy curtains that I can't figure out how to close because they're electronic and things like that. So I think it needs to be simple for a guest, and thoughtful. But I think it needs to be very relevant to where it is, and not in a twee sort of like, you know, Kevin will always say, you know, he's not putting a whale pillow on the bed in Cape Cod, you know? But, you know, there are chip lap walls and things like that and found objects from Cape Cod in the room. And so I think that it needs to be very, very connected to its location and really thoughtful design. Jon Bumhoffer: Love that. Very cool. David Millili: Great. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. David, this is where you get to let people know how they can get in touch with you and how they can find out more about Salt Hotels. David Bowd: Yes. So, Salt Hotels is nice and easy at salthotels.com. And on there, there is a Contact Us button that actually comes directly to me and Michael, my assistant, who is in the office with me. So we deal with everything there, so anyone can get in contact with me there or david.bowd@salthotels.com. David Millili: That's great. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, hospitality's most engaged podcast. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thanks for joining with us, David. David Bowd: Thank you. It's been great. Thank you very much. Steve Carran: Thank you.