Latest / The Retail Podcast / How Magnum, Guinness, Marmite, Pokémon, Waitrose & Tesco Build Unforgettable Brand Moments

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How Magnum, Guinness, Marmite, Pokémon, Waitrose & Tesco Build Unforgettable Brand Moments · The Retail Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Retail Podcast.
0:02
Now last week, I think it was last week, we did a show where
0:05
we were talking about one of Rupert's customers and some of
0:08
the activations that they had just gone through.
0:11
I'm not going to provide any spoilers and I'll let Rupert do
0:14
that. So Rupert, the big reveal for
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those who don't know you and don't know the marvellous agency
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that you have built, would you mind telling us a little bit
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about who you are and what is that incredible agency that
0:27
you've built? Absolutely.
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And thanks Alex for for inviting me if it's real privilege to be
0:32
on the show. So I'm Rupert Pick, Global MD of
0:36
Hot Pickle, an agency I set up back in 2009, believe it or not,
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with two classmates from from MBA school, 1A jazz classical
0:46
promoter and a another environmental lawyer, right.
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And we decided to create a brand experience business, which you
0:52
might think is a little unusual given our our kind of
0:55
backgrounds, although I had AI had a brand background.
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So I was formerly a kind of Unilever and the agency in
1:02
simple terms does two things. It creates a brand experiences
1:07
for large brands predominantly in the sort of FM, CGSCPG world
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and we do a product innovation for those similar companies and
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primarily in the food and drink world.
1:19
So most of our client base is food and drink, but not
1:22
exclusively. We also operate in the kind of
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personal care and entertainment world too.
1:26
So you, I, I assume you operate from, from reading about you,
1:30
you operate in the US as well, right And you just underneath a
1:34
big rebrand as part of the US launch.
1:37
Yeah, so Patrick Hammond who's one of the Co founders is
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American. In fact the one of the other
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original Co founders, Barcu Rogers, who no longer the
1:46
business was also American. Yeah, after 15 years of grey
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winters and grey summers, he decided that he wanted to go
1:53
back to the States. And we already had a number of
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US clients and a lot of global brand teams are based out of the
2:00
US So it made complete sense to set up an office over there, an
2:03
office in Winston Salem in North Carolina, which is a kind of
2:07
slightly unusual location, but actually in the States.
2:10
What we've learned is it's such a big country, it doesn't matter
2:13
where you based as long as you're near an airport and
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Charlotte is only around the corner.
2:17
So yeah, Patrick and the team is based.
2:19
We now have a US office serving US clients, but we worked
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globally. You know, we're in discussions a
2:25
project for for Australia. We've done a large scale
2:28
infrastructure retail experience in Shanghai and all across
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mainland Europe. So the team are pretty mobile.
2:35
OK. So global agency servicing CPG
2:40
brands, yeah. Do you have then did you have
2:43
the sort of a strategic conviction that sort of steers
2:47
your approach as the the group MD or the global MD is?
2:51
How is that? Because there's such different
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diverse markets? Yeah.
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So I guess so there's a, there's a couple of things we have
2:59
strategic direction and kind of in, in terms of who do we work
3:02
with. So predominantly with consumer
3:05
brands delivering physical brand experience or product
3:09
innovation. We tend to work with global
3:12
brands because of the nature of the type of work we want to do
3:15
with them and the types of work we're kind of well known for.
3:18
You know, there are only a certain types of brands that are
3:21
able to build, you know, citadels to their brand from a
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big physical experience is we don't tend to to do much work
3:27
with that less incredibly well funded sort of start up brands
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may be a bit in this sort of challenger, but predominantly in
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established iconic brands that a big fan followings.
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You know, that's they're the kind of people who want to build
3:39
kind of big brand showcases. The other thing that is really
3:43
directs our work is our capabilities.
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So we're not a classic creative agency in the, you walk in the
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door with a with a budget and all, we and you come out with a
3:52
series of creative ideas in the form of sort of presentations.
3:55
Yeah, for our sins, we are really a turnkey solution for
4:00
anyone wanting to deliver on this is on the experience side,
4:03
a physical brand experience and operate it.
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So we do everything from the business modelling.
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So right at the front end to the creative development concept
4:12
development, design, install, build and then interesting the
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operating of those physical experiences not with every
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single client, but with a with a great number.
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So we are. Sort of mash.
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Mccarlson, Saltz and see business modellers into creative
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and see into retail operator, which is quite unusual.
4:32
Just have curiosity. Have you ever had a like a, a
4:34
retailer come to you and ask you to build something for them?
4:38
Yes. Yeah.
4:39
All right. OK.
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The one you get so that just thinking about that.
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So we've worked for, we've worked for Waitrose, we've done
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work for Tesco's, OK. We've just worked for families.
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It's quite, I think there's there's a really interesting
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space around retail. So what we're what we're very
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good at is we're very good at developing new concepts and
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piloting them. We're not a global rollout
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business. You know, if you want to go and
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build 400 stores, you don't come and talk to us.
5:03
Yeah. And there are lots of retailers
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who are playing with ideas, whether that's as a, you know, a
5:07
capsule version of their offer or a totally different line
5:10
extension to their retail operation.
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You know, we're quite a good fit for that because we can take a
5:16
project, but like a sort of skunk works team, go and develop
5:18
a business model, develop the concepts, operate it, and
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whether it's successful or not, hand it back to them.
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So yeah, we've had everything from kind of big boss retailers
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through to D, actually D to C retailers.
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So HelloFresh would be a good example.
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Yeah, we developed a concept for them.
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They wanted to test a actually a grocery line rather than the D
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to C line. And they said, OK, well, one of
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the interesting ways of doing that would be to kind of build a
5:42
store. And then we can we can see if
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consumers are going to buy it in within the store.
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But also we can have conversations with those
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consumers a bit like a source of a real market research test.
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And we did that for them in Central London well.
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How do you protect these massive scale projects and brand homes,
6:00
but yet you seem to sort of fearlessly continue to be
6:03
creative? I mean, how do you protect that
6:06
creativity when you're working with much large brands?
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Is there a formula for scaling playfulness?
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So I think we're very fortunate in that pretty much every single
6:16
client we work with that owns a big brand or the the brands
6:21
themselves are pretty creative entities or the the individuals
6:25
that work on them and the ambition of the businesses to be
6:29
creative. You know, you take Magma, it's a
6:31
great example actually the environment business in you
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know, relative to a sort of like a global brands is not that big
6:37
a business. I mean, I can't remember exactly
6:40
what the total size of the business is now.
6:42
I used to run it actually if you in a liver, but it's probably, I
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don't know, 50 million plus. But in scale of things in global
6:47
brands, that's not very big. But it lauded creatively.
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You know, it was only one of the best campaigns ever.
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And I was really fortunate to work on on those campaigns when
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I was was that, you know, Magna's another good example.
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Guinness is another good example.
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Pokémon's another good example. These are great.
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These are big brands owned by big corporates who you'd expect
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to be quite conservative and bureaucratic.
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But actually they built those brands off the back of having a
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real, you know, creative challenge and mentality.
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Our job is really to take that ambition and then to translate
7:19
it within the channel and spaces in which we operate.
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And, and most of the time we're encouraged to push the envelope.
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I think the, the, the challenge often for our clients is that
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we're taking them into a space that most of the people that
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work in this business don't have a kind of extended length of
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practise and understanding and knowledge base.
7:40
So a Unilever marketeer isn't a retailer.
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Yeah, they're not a hospitality owner.
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So saying to them, these are the things that we need to do within
7:50
a physical space. This is what the, the Marmite we
7:52
tell experience is going to be like.
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This is the how we're going to serve food in this space is is
7:57
alien and new to them and understanding how they can take
8:00
their knowledge and expertise in communication and translate that
8:04
into something that's very tangible, that's
8:06
three-dimensional and in some case is is human is a is a bit
8:11
of a departure and that is the big creative leap that we have
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to to take with our clients just.
8:16
Going to ask you a few questions that I've not shared with you,
8:19
but just think to you, I'm I'm super cute.
8:21
I'd love your opinion on it because I feel like I'm I'm it's
8:24
a unique opportunity you're you're giving me.
8:26
I'm Acmo of a multi million in pound brat, right?
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And I'm coming to you because I'm not relevant anymore.
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I'm really struggling. Sales are down.
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What is where do you go? Like where do you take me?
8:40
What is it that I'm doing from your experience?
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Because you've just wheeled off like a who's who of brat.
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But what what's that sort of playbook in your mind?
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As long as it's not giving away your it's a secret.
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But what would you say to me as the CMO to sort of get me to
8:55
think about things in a different way?
8:57
How? How do you do do?
8:59
That I mean, so we are not the, you know, the single solution to
9:04
reviving a browser, but we're potentially part of the
9:07
solution. And I think I, I, I won't be new
9:10
in saying this is the brands that are being most successful
9:13
in the current age. OK, are part and embedded in
9:17
culture. Yeah, they they operate very
9:20
differently to the brands that I was trained on where the brand
9:24
owner really owned the voice. We talked about in the
9:27
businesses having a dialogue with consumers, not a monologue.
9:30
I was sort of trained in the world of monologues here, make a
9:34
very expensive advert or make a very good and expensive adverts,
9:38
make a piece of film. Yeah.
9:40
And then everything below that was kind of really icing on the
9:43
cake. It's changed.
9:44
It's flipped entirely now. Yeah, I still believe in TV
9:47
advertising. I still believe in well crafted
9:50
pieces above, above the line work.
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But the the if you if you look at the, you know, the successful
9:54
brands, the magnums of the guinnesses of this world, what
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they're brilliant at it now is about having tentacles into many
10:00
different areas and being part of popular culture in its
10:05
various guises. So whether that's in with Magnum
10:07
in film and in music and in just turning up on the street and
10:12
letting consumers engage and play with things and and
10:16
consumers of all natures. So right up from kind of Uber
10:19
influences right down to, you know, your your average Joe
10:23
who's turning up at Tesco and and kind of and Sainsbury's.
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And I think that is that is the thing that I would be saying to
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see as is, you know, go and search for the places that where
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people are genuinely connecting with your brand and go and
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amplify and elevate those things.
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You know, don't try and create them, but go hunting.
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And there's a wonderful marketeer, very talented
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marketeer, Unilever, Vicki Rogers, who works on the Rick
10:49
Sona brand. And she, she's brilliant because
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she goes, she just gets absorbed in little, you know, kind of
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rabbit Warrens and, and, and fines consumers and fines
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cohorts of, of people in subcultures and then, and then
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has a kind of innate way of being able to then have a
11:08
dialogue with them and turn that into something bigger.
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And I think that's the challenge is, is go looking for the
11:14
consumers and the cultures that you can bring to life as, as, as
11:18
a brand owner. So.
11:19
Obviously one of the the the skills and successes that you've
11:23
got that you've mentioned is the the fact that you're doing these
11:26
activations in physical in the in the real world and not at a
11:30
massive scale, but at a scale that's enough to build height,
11:35
buzz, scarcity, need. And you mentioned sampling
11:39
there. Yeah, in all of these, in all of
11:41
these interactions that you had with CM OS and marketing teams,
11:45
what's the one thing that always so sorry, is there one thing
11:48
that surprises you? Is there like a thing that
11:51
people aren't thinking about when when they come to you or an
11:55
outcome from doing these projects that like sampling
11:58
around, you know, does everyone naturally think we've got to
12:01
create a sampling experience? No, I think the bit that
12:05
surprises me is that people can be a bit transactional.
12:08
And Steve Chase. Failed.
12:09
Basically. How many gonna shift?
12:12
Yeah. But and, and they've, they're
12:14
rather unambitious in the the opportunities on offer to do
12:18
something that is a little bit more, I say experiential, a bit
12:22
more memorable when they're spending, you know, significant
12:25
sums of money, throwing out product to consumers.
12:28
And then they, yet they kind of they're reduced down to the
12:30
lowest common denominator if I think a good example.
12:33
So we don't tend to do that sort of very transactional sampling
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of here's a dump in and I'm going to lob lots of that.
12:39
Yeah, but in a train station. But we did do a train station
12:42
sampling campaign for Magnum around a campaign called Stick
12:46
to the original Waterloo Station and rather than just have dump
12:51
bins of ice cream and it's quite easy to get rid of ice cream
12:54
even in the depths of winter in the UK.
12:57
We had 12 piece orchestra with a spoke curated score that was
13:03
based on the score from the advert, playing music on a
13:07
bandstand, elevated bandstand whilst people had a sample and
13:11
the difference was remarkable. You know?
13:13
So rather than grab the products, enjoy the products in
13:15
isolation, people were spending time eating the products
13:19
surrounding this space, listening to great music, taking
13:22
pictures of of the orchestra, performing in a wonderful
13:27
Amphitheatre and kind of musical, which Waterloo Station
13:30
is. Yeah, yeah.
13:32
Relatively little additional cost just some consideration and
13:37
creativity and I think that's the bit that I'm surprised at is
13:41
is how few businesses kind of you know push things creatively
13:45
and say look we're going to commit to this form of
13:47
activation now let's make it stand out to let's let's be more
13:51
than just the number of products we've put in people's hands
13:54
you've. You've mentioned, so obviously I
13:56
can talk to you forever. Honestly, I got, I can keep just
13:59
asking you questions and I'm I'm just looking at the time I've
14:02
got to sort of think about bringing it to my last question
14:06
again, going back to the brand. Amount you need any more time,
14:08
that's fine and we can have a couple more questions.
14:10
It's fine. Yeah, I'm just, what I want to
14:12
do is a lot of the times I talk to my guests and I lost, I asked
14:16
them a lot of questions, but I don't get into the how, right?
14:19
Because Acmo or a brand manager, obviously they have to go on a
14:24
journey and as you said, maybe they need to be open, they need
14:26
to be awake. But it feels like right now
14:29
today they are getting smacked left, right and centre from
14:33
social, from from different new digital channels, from AI and
14:38
you know, all the elements. And so how do I as a brand
14:42
manager, like what are the constructive steps over the next
14:46
five years that I need to, to think about to protect my brand?
14:50
Or as you said, how the heck, apart from obviously employing
14:54
really cool agencies, maintain my cultural subcultural
14:57
relevance, right? What are the things that what
15:00
are those practical things that I need to do?
15:03
Or maybe you know what, they're not even the questions that they
15:05
will be thinking because I'm, I'm just making up what I think.
15:09
And you sit down with these brand managers.
15:12
But the question really being is how do I look into the next five
15:16
years and maintain my authority, my relevance?
15:20
I mean, you make a great point. I think the most important thing
15:22
that CMOS need to consider and and I have a few friends of mine
15:26
from my Unilever days who are in those kind of positions, is, is,
15:29
as you said, stay relevant. Yeah.
15:30
And how do you stay relevant By having a really good
15:33
understanding of your consumer and of cult.
15:36
Yeah. And I think if the most
15:38
practical thing you can do is listen to the consumer, It's
15:41
it's it's not, it's not new, but listen to the consumer.
15:44
Yeah. And surround yourself with
15:46
people who are really plugged in.
15:48
And I think that is people in the.
15:50
It's not just about people that kind of crazy peripheries of
15:54
society, of culture, but also people who are in mainstream
15:57
society. If I take I take one good
15:59
example. We're very fortunate to work on
16:00
the Hellman's brand. Yeah.
16:02
And you know, believe it or not, the world of sandwiching is
16:06
having a revival now. The format of a sandwich hasn't
16:09
changed a great deal, and sandwiching isn't a kind of new
16:12
idea in any way. But what we're seeing is this
16:15
sort of subculture of people making sandwiches like they're
16:18
kind of works of art. And you're and you're getting
16:21
the emergence of sandwich shops that, you know, charging sort of
16:26
1015 lbs incredible sandwiches, really indulgent, really
16:30
elaborate, very foodie. You know, how big is this stack?
16:34
How wide is this stack? What breads am I using?
16:37
Crazing, You know, the detail. Yeah.
16:39
You know, that didn't really exist about 18 months ago.
16:42
And for a big brand like, you know, Hellman's, they need to
16:45
be, they need to be part of that conversation, not necessarily
16:47
only in the conversation, but need to be part of that
16:49
conversation. So.
16:50
But if you are not plugged into the food scene and you're not
16:53
plugged into the subcultures within the food scene, you could
16:56
miss that entirely. And as a brand, where there is
16:59
a, there's a product role, it's idle.
17:02
You're part of that conversation.
17:03
So, and, and what I do know is that culture moves on very
17:07
quickly. So what is hot today is not
17:10
going to be hot 12 months down the line.
17:12
So the, the, the other challenge is plug yourself into culture,
17:15
find the people who are connected to culture and
17:20
continually innovate within those spaces.
17:22
Because if you stick with the same message I can show you, you
17:26
know, 1824 months down the line, you start to look retired and
17:29
redundant. You know, and we see this in the
17:31
world of lifestyle. You know, I kind of feel like,
17:33
you know, Nike's lost its its way a bit doesn't feel as her
17:35
relevant in culture, whereas and hold back, right.
17:38
Look how good at it that's. Doing yeah, yeah yeah in.
17:43
The US they're doing Samuel L Jackson, Missy Elliott and
17:46
activation with skateboarders, while in the UK they're selling
17:50
bucket hats with Oasis. You know.
17:52
To me, what a perfect and I've got example because again, all
17:55
of my guests on the shows have all spoken about Adidas in their
17:59
local communities and I wish I could remember the the cultural.
18:03
Clothes that they. Wear in Saudi Arabia, but the
18:06
ladies wear it so to to protect the modesty.
18:09
There's like this down that you wear.
18:12
I was talking to my host Co host out there and she was saying
18:15
Adidas have just created this amazing thing that I wear and
18:18
the girls in the office are like, Oh my God, where did you
18:20
get that from? Where's that?
18:21
You know, and it's like what a perfect example.
18:24
Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's The thing is, you know,
18:27
even in these big global brands, you think that, you know, we
18:30
live in a sort of monoculture. We don't, you know, the
18:32
subcultures within, you know, every society and across
18:36
geographies, people operate slightly differently.
18:39
And I think the, the best brands are able to have this, as I
18:43
said, this sort of tentacle approach where they're able to
18:45
have a, a consistent strategy, but show up differently in
18:50
different places in, in ways entirely relevant, authentic,
18:54
you know, appropriate for that particular kind of population.
18:58
Do you think that's a generate, IE Gen ZS, Gen Z as in general
19:02
for Gen Z, they are now that's what they're looking for.
19:06
Whereas Boomers and Gen XS, you know, they're so loyal to a
19:10
brand even when they've lost. Because when you look at
19:13
specifically in the UK, you look at the brands that are
19:15
struggling and this this week or month, there's been Claire's in
19:18
the news. There's been River Island in the
19:21
news, there's been E buyer in the news and I'm thinking they
19:24
must have sat there thinking, how do we maintain relevance?
19:28
But something went wrong, right? Some somehow they dropped out of
19:31
like Nike, They they've made some.
19:34
You know, one decision leads to another decision that leads to
19:37
another decision that, you know, then all of a sudden that
19:40
they're just not relevant in their consumers life, Which I
19:43
think speaking to you feels like an art form that you you
19:46
probably I think is natural, but it probably isn't, right.
19:50
I think that's, I don't know, that to me feels like maybe some
19:52
of the secret to your successes, these things that you naturally
19:55
have. Yeah, that doesn't exist out
19:58
there. What what's quite interesting
19:59
is, is I think there's a challenge in fashion and some of
20:03
the lifestyle fashion brands. So you mentioned Riverline, you
20:07
mentioned Nike where product is so.
20:10
Key to that relevance piece yeah yeah product is always changing
20:16
it in in in let's say that I don't know the the booze world
20:20
or the food world often those products you know they're
20:22
constants you know Guinness has not changed in 100 years the
20:25
treatment or 200 and something year the treatment of that brand
20:28
is different whereas Nike not only needs to keep his
20:32
communication current it needs to keep its product current so I
20:34
think they have even more challenges than some of the kind
20:38
of food and drink brands that we often.
20:41
I don't know, I look at Bureau and Tom Holland for Wimbledon
20:44
activation, right? Non alcoholic beer you have to
20:47
sell. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:49
So I think it, I mean, I don't think it's going to outsell, but
20:52
it's alcohol sales are definitely declining.
20:55
So for Guinness to maintain its relevance as as as you said,
20:58
they need to be doing these physical activations.
21:01
Is there anything when you've done all these like obviously
21:04
music seems to be something that you implied when you were
21:07
talking about the Magnum experience.
21:09
Are there any other physical senses that you feel brands
21:15
sometimes overlook because they're just looking at, you
21:17
know, maybe taste but forgetting about theirs that the.
21:20
Sentry was, so it's very good in a physical sense.
21:23
Fragrances is so often. Well, everyone goes to the.
21:27
The visual aesthetic on the whole there's the other.
21:29
Let me design this store beautifully.
21:31
What colour is on the walls? What pictures are we using
21:34
What's the visual merchandising looking like Yeah.
21:37
And actually, you know, walk into a.
21:39
I'm going to take Soho House as a good example they have a very
21:42
distinctive kind of smell Yeah. It the power of fragrance to
21:47
transform people. I was brought up in the Far East
21:51
and every time I go back to kind of Hong Kong, I walk out the
21:54
airport and I feel at home, even though, you know, I lived there
21:58
only till I was 8 years old. It's because of the audio.
22:01
It's because of the fragrance of the place.
22:04
Actually, it's not about the visual aesthetic because the
22:07
visual aesthetic in many places has kind of changed.
22:10
Yeah, I think it's, we try, we talk about the experience or an
22:14
emotive fingerprint of a, of an, of an experience is it's
22:17
multiple touch points that make up the total experience.
22:21
And so much of it is, is also a human experience.
22:24
It is, you know how you are are approached by another person.
22:30
How are you spoken to by another person?
22:32
Do you think about some of the your riches?
22:34
And I invested comments kind of brand experiences and I would
22:36
say kind of, you know, restaurant experience, hotels
22:39
experience. Probably the most memorable ones
22:41
are where you've had fantastic service or you've had a great
22:45
interaction with the people around you.
22:47
You probably don't remember necessarily what what you sat on
22:50
or what you saw on the wall, but you remember the conversations
22:53
in the dialogue that you had. So yeah, I think it's, it's a,
22:57
everyone would say this, but it is a real 360 brand experience
23:00
you need to look at and you can't overlook any one of them.
23:03
Yeah. And, and the wonderful thing
23:05
from the retail podcast thing is, is the, the fact that all of
23:09
your activations in the physical world constantly prove that this
23:14
new generation as well as other generations are still looking
23:18
for that interaction in a physical space.
23:21
Yes, they love digital, yes they love social, but they still are
23:25
looking and hungry for physical activations, right that I
23:29
presume. Oh, absolutely, I mean, you
23:32
know, concerts around festivals, around a great restaurants, you
23:36
know, there's lines going around around the corner for the you
23:39
know, a new donut retail, you know, every pop up in London
23:43
that is that is decent. There's, you know, there's some
23:45
stuff that that isn't well produced, but we are social
23:49
beings. We great going to physical
23:52
spaces. And I, I was concerned when in
23:55
the sort of, I guess early 2010, I was thinking Griki, I'm
23:58
running an analogue business here and everyone's going
24:00
digital. I'm thinking, am I, am I the
24:03
Luddite in the room? And then I realised actually,
24:07
the two things can live side by side and they, and in fact, it's
24:11
the digital world that has created this energy and this
24:14
passion and then this anticipation for physical
24:17
experiences. And, you know, look what
24:19
happened after COVID, everyone rushed out to go and have to be
24:23
in social and naturally like being locked up in our, you
24:25
know, houses just on screens. So there's a, there's a role for
24:29
both. I think what's interesting now
24:30
is just integrating those physical express experiences
24:34
into the digital world and understanding how those two
24:36
things work together together. So when we are producing our
24:39
work, we are thinking about the people that are experiencing
24:43
those the spaces, but also their friends and their families and
24:47
their communities and how they're experiencing them
24:50
vicariously through the people that have been in attendance.
24:53
So, you know, the two things need to kind of sit together.
24:57
Is there one question that I should have asked you and I
25:00
didn't? So great that that is health is
25:02
a great question. Are you you?
25:04
Asked are you asked I think in in an e-mail is you know, what
25:07
do I think the kind of brand home of the future would be?
25:11
Yeah. And I'm not sure I know exactly,
25:14
but I think I do know that they're going to be many more of
25:17
them because I think well crafted brands, if they are
25:21
retailer orientated brands, they'll reduce their footprint
25:25
in a state and invest in really great experiences.
25:28
So they'll have less of them, but they'll be better.
25:30
And I think the brands that aren't retailers understand the
25:34
importance of community and understand how community really
25:38
does build a brand these days. You know that you cannot rely on
25:42
the brand just being a megaphone.
25:44
You need the brand to be the sort of the trigger for
25:48
communication. It's a bit like a sort of
25:50
throwing the stone in into a pond and then the conversations
25:54
then flow from you starting or building into the conversation.
25:59
And I'm pretty sure we're going to see more and more elaborate
26:02
experiences. I think we're going to, and I
26:04
see brand homes where the manifestation, the expression of
26:07
the brand is more elaborate, isn't just about the product,
26:10
isn't just about, you know, take Guinness isn't just about having
26:13
a bar, It's about having a space that evokes the spirit of the
26:17
brand. So it might have a hospitality
26:19
piece, it might have a bar, it might have a museum, it might
26:22
have a training space, you know, multi, multi layered,
26:26
multifaceted experiences. We're seeing some lovely, lovely
26:30
brown homes across the world and I'm really excited by the
26:33
development of embers sort of visitor attractions, hospitality
26:36
spaces, showcases to brands. You know as people just crave
26:40
being in and around others and sharing, sharing knowledge,
26:44
sharing ideas, sharing passion with like minded souls.
26:48
Yeah, I was in the Shanghai last year and it's like, I always
26:52
feel awkward saying this. I, I wrote a book about the
26:55
future of retail, right? And what the physical
26:58
experiences and, and a lot of it I took from what I saw at
27:01
Shanghai. And it one of the things that
27:03
reflects what you said, almost almost every single space
27:08
retails. I whether it's Brompton selling
27:10
bikes, whether it's buying a Hawaii car, whether it's buying
27:16
vans, trainers or had some form of drinks, a space that was not
27:22
for transaction. It was there.
27:24
And in in the book, I talk about how if your customer is your
27:28
family and you reframe the way that you think about them,
27:31
there's got to be a time and a space where it's not about the
27:34
transaction, you know, it's about hanging out like you were
27:38
just saying and our anyway, the. The Allison, you're spot on.
27:42
You know, people have so much more choice now.
27:44
Are they more choiceful? I think they probably are.
27:48
They want to dig a bit deeper. You know, why is it that the
27:51
founder story is so compelling these days?
27:54
I think it's it's all found as a sort of narcissist and feel like
27:57
they have to tell their story. I think people genuinely want to
27:59
know what's behind a business. Yeah.
28:01
Yeah. And the physical store does
28:03
that, you know, and you can really tell when you go to a
28:05
really well run physical brand experience with passionate kind
28:09
of brand ambassadors who really understand the business, really
28:13
understand the product, really excited and energised by, by
28:17
what the space in which they're, they're working.
28:20
It's pretty compelling. And I, I think that's to your
28:24
point exactly. It's, it's about generosity of
28:27
the brand. You know, you walk into days of
28:30
let's put some grocery environments to one side, but
28:34
the days of kind of just going into a place and it's just about
28:36
transaction. It's just about shelves and
28:39
racking I think have gone. And you enough to go to grocery
28:42
look at the problems Burberry, Gucci, so many of the luxury
28:46
brands are having because they've just treating their
28:50
spaces. Is this.
28:51
Let me tell you more about me. It's like that friend that you
28:54
don't want us to hang out with because all they ever do is talk
28:57
about themselves, right? It's like where is me in that
29:00
conversation? Where do I appear?
29:02
And yeah, in the podcast, I jokingly said, hey, Gucci, maybe
29:06
they should come and hang out with Rupert and the team and ask
29:09
about how do we create more Marmite Magnum esque
29:14
experiences? Because those types of spaces, I
29:18
think they don't serve anything apart from your bottom line.
29:22
And this new generation has a different philosophy when it
29:26
comes to interacting with brands and I think.
29:28
Circling. It's a really great point.
29:30
Circling back to the conversation we were having
29:32
earlier is around culture changes.
29:34
To be a luxury brand 1015 years ago was it was to be a bit like
29:40
an art form. You know, you, you, you created
29:42
an installation. Your store was slightly aloof,
29:45
slightly inaccessible in order to create this sort of allure of
29:48
scarcity. Yeah, slightly removed.
29:52
Now I think the best luxury brands are are approachable.
29:56
They are confident that they're able to do collaborations.
29:59
They're able to operate with brands from very different sorts
30:04
of ends of the kind of pricing spectrum, you know, don't take
30:08
themselves too seriously. They have some levity there, but
30:11
too many of the sorts of iconic historic brands are still stuck
30:14
in a culture of, you know, the 1990s and early early 2000s.
30:19
And and I think that is the critical job of any kind of good
30:23
and talented marketeer is stay curious, plug self in culture,
30:28
be continuing the adapting and and changing because if you to
30:33
which you just everywhere with the point of it should become
30:35
redundant. Yeah.
30:37
And I think that's a lovely way to end the show on Rupert.
30:39
Thank you so much. But give it.
30:41
Really enjoy the conversation. Absolutely.
30:44
Goodbye and thanks very much.