Latest / ADHDtime On Air / ADHDtime on Air with Caroline Maguire
Transcript
- Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hi, thank you for joining me today. Today I'm gonna be talking about a topic that I really, really find so interesting that I hyper-focused on reading this book in time for this interview. talking with Caroline and we're gonna be talking about her new book about friendship and building skills for neurodivergent adults. And is a follow-up to our different version of her amazing first book that was for children. And... I'm gonna let her introduce herself, but before she even starts, I wanna say how honored I have to be talking to you about this book that I breezed through. Like I really like read it in one setting and listened to it. I did the audio book and reading thing and I loved it. So tell us a bit about yourself and about this book. Caroline Maguire: Thank you. Thank you so much. love the reception. I love to hear that it actually like is, you know, well received because that's always the fear. so I am Caroline McGuire. I have been an ADHD certified coach for 21 years. I have a master's degree in, both basically social emotional learning ⁓ and early development. Cause all roads always lead back to childhood. and, I have trying to get everyone to talk about ADHD and friendship for the past 21 years. And I heavily with Audi HD as well as ADHD clients of all ages. My first book for the youngers, Why Well Known Play With Me, but ⁓ I always have teens and young adults and adults as well as ⁓ little ones. Basically, I don't claim to be the best at all of this friendship stuff. I'm just the person who thinks about it and hyper fixates on it all of the time ⁓ tries to figure out so that we can have a neuroaffirming way to make friends that ends the shame cycle. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I appreciate that so much. I wrote questions and comments and I also got some from my Focus on ADHD book club. ⁓ will be reading your book in our August meeting. So if anyone wants to join us, it's a free book club. They can come discuss the book with us. I will put the link in the bottom. But ⁓ one the first questions that they sent is, you've out say building friends is not easy and it's a skill. And they wrote like, why didn't anyone say this before? can you elaborate? tell us about that. Caroline Maguire: Yeah, well, so I wanted to acknowledge that it's been hard for us, right? Like, I feel like part of what I wanted to do in this book is sort of peel back the curtain and sort of say, like, let's stop pretending that this has been easy. And let's acknowledge also that people make mistakes because there's a huge percentage of the autistic community where, you know, especially the millennials where, you know, we said you have to change everything about yourself. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mmm. Caroline Maguire: you should mask and that was really what social skills coaches and practitioners in the school systems were doing. Like, and I just wanted to kind of be like, let's just get it out there, right? And then I'm kind of saying it's a new day, but in this new day, I want to acknowledge that this is a skill that this can be built that ⁓ does take time and energy and work. And I know that's like not everybody's favorite thing to hear. But I think this mythology that it's like easy for everyone except me, it doesn't serve us. It makes us feel so bad about ourselves when the fact is typical people have to work at this. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Right. very appreciate the bringing up the masking. You talk that in your book. I use sometimes with my clients when they talk about masking, I actually use the metaphor of like getting dressed with clothes. Like we might want to walk around naked, but it's not appropriate in most situations. But we will choose like for the beach, we might make something that might, we wear something different for an office meeting. knowing what to wear is one thing, but putting all these layers and hiding behind them and hiding your own body, that's more the masking kind of strategy. And wanted to ask you, how do I teach someone ⁓ is the right level of like, of hiding behind your clothes versus wearing the right clothes for the right event versus just staying at home because you're so afraid to get even dressed? ⁓ Caroline Maguire: Right, I like that. That's a good analogy. Daniella Karidi, PhD: What is that level of taking off the mask and being authentic? Caroline Maguire: I think there's like a couple of things we need to talk about, is one is adapting to me is not masking. Okay. So adapting is, um, you and I went through this recently. We were at a dinner and, I had been holding back some opinions about something kind of all day, right? Because no one else shared my same opinions. And I kind of tried, I call this in the book, dropping a ping. I sort of said, Hey, I think about this and no one grabbed onto it. So I let it go, right? I could have pushed my opinion, but I read the room and I made a choice. And that's, think, part of what this is about. Whether you're putting on a bathing suit or you're putting on like a full coat, it a choice. ⁓ we adapt and we're adapting for a minute and we're, you you have good news, but you rush in and you realize your girlfriend isn't having a great time or isn't having a great day. You know, my grandmother used to say to me, you complain up, not down. You know, so you complain to someone who is, you know, your eco equal, socioeconomically or above you. You don't complain to someone who's having struggles, right? About your, you know, first world problems. I think in adapting, it's not, it's a choice. ⁓ temporary. Right, I got to have my say about my opinion at the dinner we attended, right? Because you agreed with me, right? But I temporarily curved that. It didn't feel bad. That's another thing. Masking, covering up your whole self, it feels bad. it's a choice, ⁓ So ⁓ ⁓ about, I'm gonna go into this meeting. I know that this boss ⁓ incredibly difficult. I know they want me to... Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mmm. Caroline Maguire: speak a certain way, present a certain way. I'm going in and I'm going in for an hour, right? And you know, I've had stories like this. had a professor that I worked with once and he had been, you know, having an incredibly hard time socially and having a hard time, you know, getting grant money. And, you know, he learned to read the room and maybe it would be called masking because he went in for an hour and he did the dog and pony show and he got a lot of grant money. Here's the thing though, I felt like it was more him reading the room than masking. But let's say it was masking. It was an hour to fund a lab for like five years, That's different to me than I hide all my opinions. I people please, cause I don't tell you what I really think. I along with everything, even if I don't like the plan, ⁓ right? And how I feel about adapting to like, it's a choice, it's temporary and you don't feel. When people mask, they feel powerless, right? Like when you cover yourself up like your clothes analogy, I'm not like this is appropriate or this is what the situation calls for. I feel like I have to cover myself and hide and I feel powerless. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hmm. Also, there's an energy element, I feel like. And with the masking, there's a lot of your cognitive capacity and energy that you're using that you can't use for the social interaction itself because you're so busy with the masking component of. Caroline Maguire: 100%. It takes a lot of energy. We know there's ⁓ health impacts for your depression and anxiety. ⁓ feel like you have to hide because you're like, there's something wrong with you, right? Like it doesn't feel like I'm making a choice to hold something back or I'm wearing the suit that is necessary for me to present to the board ⁓ ⁓ you know, ⁓ I'm being safe. I'm thinking about, you know, where I am and what I'm doing. It feels like you are in shame and you have to be someone other than who you are. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I appreciate that distinction very much. I want to ask about how do we go back to finding our authentic self, our unmasked self? If we, for years, ⁓ of, ⁓ masked we didn't know we had a disability or because we were in environments that didn't support us to unmask, how do we go back? Is there ⁓ a thought you could recommend for us to of remove our mask safely? Caroline Maguire: I mean, I think one of the things we have to think about is it's a journey, right? So this isn't gonna happen overnight. When I see Instagrams and TikToks and stuff where they talk about unmasking, it's, know, like changing the sheets on your bed. I'm like, no, that's not really fair to people because then they feel bad when it's taking them a long time. And it really kind of means self-discovery. So I've talked to a ton of experts about this. And one of the things that they say is you have to figure out what your values are. Right? So doing some values exercises. What are your preferences? And it literally reminds me of there's a scene in Runaway Bride where she doesn't know what eggs she wants and she makes like every type of egg and tries it. Do you like vanilla or chocolate? Some of my masked clients have gone along with people so long that if I say like, what do you like to do for fun? They are like, I don't really know. You know? So some of it is, and I talk about having a date with yourself and like experimenting, maybe keeping a journal, like I'm gonna try all these different things and see how do I have fun? ⁓ of this is it erodes your original personality. So I feel like there's an element of like, how do I go back to like little Daniela, right? Like whoever she was and like looking at. In childhood, were you a dancer? Were you a theater kid? Were you a robotics kid? Like, who were you? And then also, what was your humor like? And starting to experiment, but in safe places with safe people, right? Because there's some people who aren't very nice, you know? I'm sorry, but that's the truth. And you wanna be safe, because it is exposing yourself. But I feel like there's a degree of like, Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes, fortunately. Yeah. Caroline Maguire: Who am I authentically? I think you have to go back and find that out and sort of peel back the layers. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. talk in the book about the three P's and for the people that ⁓ not yet had a chance to read the book, can you introduce us to that concept? Caroline Maguire: Yeah, so what I wanted to do was not prescriptively say this is absolutely the one way to make friends, right? What I wanted to do is say, okay, for our brains, here's my recommendations and here's a pathway to friendship. And then also, you know, here's a formula that you could follow and here's some ideas based on research and my experience. And then I keep saying to people, take what you want and leave the rest. Cause those who are afraid of sort of masking or the prescriptive stuff that's come out in the past, I'm like, you don't have to do everything I said. So I just want to say that first. the first P is participation. So I would love for people to come to my couch. I would love for people to be like, you know, with me and just meet me that way, but probably not gonna happen. ⁓ you have to participate with people in order to make friends. And that participation can look in many different ways, but really friendship is formed by coming together, having a shared experience, talking to someone, getting to know them, and then over and over having these collaborative shared experiences, right? Then there's the second P, which is proximity. So research shows, and my personal experience shows, that There's something about showing up in the same place week, every month, every Thursday, where you then come to know someone, expect they're going to be there. And I think the analogy is that, you know, in some walks of life, sometimes in our lives, there's like a funnel for friendship, right? It may not have worked out for everyone, but you know, college, we're all the same age approximately, ⁓ we're together. and we're like thrown together. And so you have like an opportunity to meet different people, right? And you're just sort of, it's a conduit for that. And so proximity to me is a way to bring that conduit into adulthood where let's face it, we're spread out. I don't know about your neighborhood, but my neighborhood is old people, young people, people with new babies, people who are sending their kids off to college. Like there's no uniformity, right? And so. I'm not going to necessarily just make friends organically right in my backyard, way they did in the past. And then the last P is practice going back your original statement, friendship is a skill. And if we want to ⁓ build that we have to practice. I also find that having a practice mindset. saying this is an experiment, some things are gonna work, some things aren't gonna work. Sometimes I'm gonna go someplace and it's gonna be like that great and we thought it was gonna be great. Sometimes I'm gonna go and I'm gonna meet someone I like. It lighten the burden and end that shame cycle that we have where we feel like everything we're doing is under scrutiny and it all has to be perfect. And that's just so much burden, you know? And you are practicing. You're going places and you're building skills and you're sometimes just saying like, well, this didn't work out, but like, what can I get out of it? What can I salvage? Perfection is not a piece, not a piece. Perfection is a myth. It does not exist. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. Yeah, perfection is not one of the P's. Perfection is not one of the P's. Yeah. No, I did like the emphasis. There's all these stories about different disasters and how people come out and became friends from them. And because of that ⁓ proximity, or if you read any romance book, there'll be like, you know, the forced proximity effect. I do appreciate the fact that we need to be in the same space, even if it's a virtual space. We need to be, ⁓ if not together, we can't build anything. ⁓ Caroline Maguire: Right. Daniella Karidi, PhD: do, and the practice element was one of ⁓ questions that came up to, from one of the readers. ⁓ They me a question about like, how do we know when our friendship is ⁓ switching we're practicing, we're building, we're in baby stages to where ⁓ we leveled ⁓ Like, how I tell when we're moving that beginning level to the leveled up? Caroline Maguire: ⁓ that's a really good question. I'm glad you asked that question. Okay, so I have a few ways to tell. So I love a good list. know that some people don't like scripts and don't like lists. And if you don't, don't use them. But I like a script and I like a list because I think it's incredibly useful to sort of have a list of ⁓ that I'm making progress, ⁓ that somebody wants to be friends with me, right? So I have all that in the book, but here's a sign that ⁓ can hang on to. If you're leveling up, first off, you're mutually sharing back and forth, right? So I am also getting to know more about you and you're seeking me out, right? So one of the best tips I ever got was from a psychologist who said, do people linger, right? We chat by the car, we chat on the yoga mats, we end up having these conversations. And then the other thing is, Do you know more about them? Do they know about you? Are they seeking you out? Right? Are they saving you a space? Are they saying like, hey, you didn't come last week, I was looking for you. And are you growing into each other's lives? Right? I'm texting you, I'm not just seeing you in this one activity. Right? I'm, I offer people a next step is one of my tips where I say, hey, Daniella, we often enjoy each other. Like we're in this cooking class together. Would you like to go to this restaurant that we as foodies want to go to? that's too big a next step, we could go to dessert or coffee, right? But we're doing stuff like that. That means we're moving through the levels of friendship instead of just being stuck as basically activity friends. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I like that. In the book, you write something about asking directly and you put it in different ways in different places. Sometimes it's really just directly asking, do you want to be my friend? And sometimes it's more about like the little pings, like, do you want to go for a bike ride or like instead of like, and seeing response. I know as someone ⁓ that is very and very, have that ⁓ personality that I am not afraid to ask anything. That idea of asking someone me out. was like, wait, like, like I just ask them? Like, we, like, I, I out my husband when we were teenagers, I called and asked him out. So obviously in the past, I wasn't as afraid of it ⁓ as now. share with us to overcome a bit that fear of, ⁓ just asking for you need. If it's you need. more in the relationship or you want to check if the relationship is going in the right direction, how do we overcome the fear of asking? Caroline Maguire: So I think there's a bunch of different things here. Like there's a bunch of different ways in which you could say this asking, asking, we becoming friends is too much, right? And some people would want to do that and other people wouldn't. I don't think I would ever do that, right? But I think that there's people who want to and in that case, Mazel But I think there's other people where I say step 25 % of your comfort zone. right? So maybe I'm not asking if we're making progress, asking if we're going anywhere. I mean, it of feels like dating like, hey, do you have in mind for this relationship? That can be like a really scary question to ask. Now, full disclosure, because if my husband listens to this, he's going to be like, I was one of those people. I was like, are we going anywhere with this? Because I don't waste my 20s, right? ⁓ I think that, ⁓ know, it's it's less about the direct asking, are we being friends and more about saying like, hey, would you like to do this? Right? Hey, would you like to have this next step? Hey, would you like to get together? And by the way, and I've been talking about this a lot this week, think there are times when people have to be open to friendship in order to become your friend. And if they aren't, that is not necessarily a reflection on you. And I know people are gonna DM me and say it is, it is, It's not, right? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mmm. Caroline Maguire: If someone has a sick mother, if someone is super busy, if someone feels satisfied, you know, there are people who feel full up in friends, you know, and if you're trying to approach them to become more than an activity buddy and don't reciprocate, sometimes that isn't about you. Like really, it's really about they're busy and they don't have time. And someone has to, in order to become friends and move to that next level, They have to want to move. And it's so hard and painful. And I'm so sorry. I wish everybody did. But sometimes people don't, you know? Daniella Karidi, PhD: I, yep, definitely. And as, when I was younger, I was called a talking machine. Like literally I had a preschool teacher that put a draw button on my forehead and told me that when she presses it, I have to stop talking. That's ⁓ much I was a talker. And I worked a lot on ⁓ turn-taking giving other people a chance to talk and join the conversation. And I think that That was for me how friendship skill was built. I thought that by giving other people a turn to talk, that would be sufficient to make them a friend. Because no one told me that that's not how it works, right? So I wanna kind of emphasize that in this book, you bring up a lot of layers and a lot of different types of friendships and a lot of different skills that we need, that friendship is not one thing or one skill. Caroline Maguire: Ha ha! Daniella Karidi, PhD: And then we need different friends in different environments and different types and different levels of friends. And I want to make sure that people that are listening don't expect like ⁓ friendships to become your best friends. ⁓ Caroline Maguire: Yes. ⁓ glad you brought that up. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And, and, and that leads me to my next question, um, where I want to like, talk about the, the reading the room concept. Okay. And the reason that that works for me as a next step is because when I started going to the ADHD conferences years ago, and I mean, 2009, it was my first conference. Um, I did it and not read the room. I remember walking into the room of presenters. I was presenting a research poster. and assumed everyone in the room knew what ADHD was and also wanted to talk about it nonstop and also wanted to, like, did not read the room at all. And I think that that skill developed with time. And I really loved that connection about reading the room and getting better and understanding relationships and how that's linked together. So tell the readers, listeners that concept of reading the room. Caroline Maguire: Yeah, absolutely. And I think younger Caroline could read the room, but she didn't always read the room. And I think it is definitely a skill that I've built as well. always could read social cues, but I sometimes didn't read the social cues. Or I decided I didn't like the social cue, so I promptly ignored it. And one of the things about reading the room is it's what's going on in the environment. It's the people. It's the intention. And so one of my big reading the room hacks is, you know, if you go into an environment, what do you want out of it? What's your role and what's your intention? And to pause, I know not the easiest thing for us and say, I'm going in, I'm going to present this poster. I want people to see me as this great heroic expert, which you are. And so I'm going to... you know, I'm going to pause, think about my intention and I'm going to, you know, read the room through that, that filter and reading the room partly does mean reading social cues and reading like the vibe of the room, which is hard, but I walk through like the layers of reading the room and how you can do it. But it also is, I mean, at the most space level. And if you struggle reading cues, you really can figure out like, What is the intention? What is this place and meeting and situation about? It's about someone's birthday party, book launch, pre-wedding, whatever it is. And then thinking about, okay, given that, what's my role? I'm not the bride. I'm not the main presenter. What is it that... I'm gonna do and what are other people doing? And I know some autistic folks, ADHD folks hate mirroring. They hate like watching people and then mirroring them. So if you don't like that, don't do it. But it is one of the easiest ways to read the room is to watch people and see what they're doing. And I know why people don't like it because it was like forced upon them in a really horrendous way. But I think stepping back and observing and I talk about the social spy technique is really useful. And instead of busting into the room and just going forward and starting to talk to look and see who's there and what they're doing. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. And I think that the flip side of the not mirroring, we have so many ADHDers that are the chameleons that actually lost themselves. And when they interact with people, they only mirror and they don't have their own ⁓ into the equation. And I think you talk about that too in the book, if I recall. Caroline Maguire: Yes, I absolutely do. And I absolutely talk about losing yourself and then, know, not knowing what to do. And, you know, try, what I try to do is sort of call out the skills and call out these different things. And then, you know, say if, like, if you don't like scripts because someone forced you to have scripts or it feels uncomfortable to you or it feels too much like masking, then don't use the scripts. But I couldn't not put scripts in because there's ⁓ of people. who are like, please Caroline, give me a script. And by scripts, by the way, I mean like conversation starters. What do I say if someone says something? How do I respond in this situation? I have a lot of that because a lot of people like that and they wanna know like, what do I say if someone says all full up now and they don't have any room for more friends? Like, do I have a response to that? ⁓ do you handle that? right? And by the way that's a mean thing to say and people shouldn't say it but they do. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I attended a work event of my husband and someone came, some colleague came to talk with me and she said to me like, my God, all these people like are keep on talking with you and they all know you. How did you do this? Like, how did you get to a place where you don't work here and so many people know you? And I jokingly said my nails. And she said, what do you mean? I'm like, people are keeping coming up to ask me where I got my nails done. And then I start a conversation. and I let it go the next stage. And now, because I know that will happen, I keep on trying to bring, have unique nails and let that, use that as a starter for my conversations. And she turned around, she's like, ⁓ where did you get your nails done? She right away took it and ran, ran with it, okay? And I loved her for that. I loved her for asking me how I did it. I loved for the fact that she really wanted to improve. And I think that that's ⁓ one of the things that I love about the way you put the book out there is, Caroline Maguire: Ha! Daniella Karidi, PhD: This is a book that people can take what they want from. They can read and say, okay, this is not for me. I don't like schemes. ⁓ I like patterns. I can't do that. I need to be spontaneous. But I really appreciated the understanding of like, ⁓ pay attention to when people want to say goodbye and what they're doing and pay attention to, like you point out different strategies. And I did very much appreciate that. So ⁓ I ⁓ a that's coming from that. Caroline Maguire: Thank you. I'm glad. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So what's the one thing you really want if someone kind of goes and like, okay, what do you want people to take from the book? What would you be like, ⁓ my God, they got my message. They understood, they heard me. What would be that thing or a few little things? Caroline Maguire: Okay, I have this one big thing that I'm obsessed with, which is you're not broken. And a lot of this is not about you have no social game or your social game is completely wrong. It's about mismatched expectations. So in the past few years, and this is like really kind of, I think a theme, but it's not as big as it was in the original draft, because that had 60,000 more words. But one of the Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hmm. Caroline Maguire: big things that's come out in research in the past five or six years, and I think it will continue to come out even more, is that one of our struggles socially isn't necessarily the production of social skills, right? We were always told we do everything wrong, change, be less, be more, push the button on your forehead and stop talking, okay? It's mismatched expectations. So you, as a typical person, expect people Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Caroline Maguire: to take turns in talking, right? Or to conversation or to ask people questions about themselves, right? Or don't really understand info dumping because you don't have, I mean, can't even imagine this, but you don't have special interests and you don't go down rabbit holes. mean, ⁓ what boring life that must be, but okay. And so when we're trying to socially interact, you're like, I don't get you, right? communicating your perspective and where you're coming from. I'm gonna tell a story. It's not to hijack the conversation. You said that you have this thing going on. I have a story and I think it would really help you. So I'm gonna tell you that so you're not like, what are you talking about? Where are you going with this story, right? I'm gonna ask you questions because that's something that allows us to have a reciprocal conversation. I'm gonna explain what info dumping is and I'm gonna say, ⁓ my God, what you just said reminded me of something. Is it okay if I share some information? And that by doing that and by communicating and even saying, I mean, not everybody wants to do this, but saying I have ADHD or I'm autistic or this is the way I am. People then can understand, they can like figure out things. And then they are actually way more accepting. And I think that I know a lot of neurodivergent people say, we're always the ones explaining, I don't love this. And that's fine, you don't have to do it. But I think that there is a lack of skills, right? We don't know how to ask questions, so we don't make reciprocal conversations. I think it comes from not having enough people to play with, right? and not understanding. But I also think there's this big factor, is they're not expecting people to talk so much. They're not expecting certain things. And that by giving people context, they are more accepting. And that's been my personal experience as well as what the research is showing. I know I'm going to get a million messages of people who are like, I hate that. But it is one of the things I really want people to get is like, If you go on a side quest in a conversation, that's fine. It's not the end of the world, right? But the more you frame that up and say to people like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm on a side quest here, the more they can relate to you and understand. And they're not like, what is happening? know? So that's one of the big things. And really that I think we do friendship differently. And I think we are different in our perspective and that we can build these skills. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. Yes, definitely. So I like to ask my guests, what would they have said to their young self with all the knowledge that they acquired now? So now that you know all this information about building friendships and about ADHD and about the world, what would you want to tell your young self? Caroline Maguire: younger Caroline. I would want to tell her everything was going to be okay. Like I think that younger Caroline was just so beleaguered by constant criticism and bullying and ⁓ physically as well. And I won't get into that because I don't want to trigger anyone, but like just having that constant thing that I just don't think I knew that everything would work out, you know? ⁓ Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Caroline Maguire: don't think, I think my intensity was like too much for people, but I don't, I would love to tell younger Caroline, like your intensity is going to make you move mountains that no one else thinks can be moved. And when someone says, for instance, you can't write books about friendship. You're going to say, watch me. Right. And so I would want to tell her like everything works out because I remember that being like the central thing. And I think that's how so many people who are adults who are getting their diagnosis font feel like they just don't see how everything can work out. And I truly believe that by getting educated about my brain, that was like the unlocking of everything. And that was the change for me. And that was the like thing that led to all this. But I would love to tell her everything is going to be okay because I don't think she knew that. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And what would you tell to future Carolina? To future Carolina? Caroline Maguire: I've been doing this really well in the past two weeks and it's only been two weeks. So would tell her to enjoy the ride. You know, ⁓ do tend to be a worrier. I do tend to be anxious. I do tend to be a person who always worried about the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. ⁓ And been doing a good job in the past two weeks since the came out of enjoying the ride and like enjoying the moments and like Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Caroline Maguire: worrying less and enjoying more. And I would tell future Carolyn, like, you need to have done that and you need to do that because you know, ⁓ ⁓ very grateful for everything I have. You know me well enough to know I'm like one of those people who feels lucky every day, right? But I do feel like I don't always enjoy the ride because I'm so ⁓ about everything. And I, I'm trying to enjoy the ride this time. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I it. I hear a lot of my ADHD clients that don't know how to celebrate their wins. So I'm hoping you're celebrating this win because this book is definitely a win. ⁓ I want to ask what's current mystery, crime mystery you're in? what's your current hyper fixation? Caroline Maguire: Thank you. you Okay, so my current hyper fixation is this Maura Murray murder, which happened in New Hampshire. Did walk away? ⁓ Was kidnapped? I don't know. ⁓ I know everything about the case, ⁓ like there is to know. I also very deeply in the Royals because King Charles is in America. So like, ⁓ I don't the kind of money where I could get a ticket to see him, but I told my husband, that I wish I could. And he was like, if I had that kind of money, I would never spend it on that. And I was like, I would love to, right? ⁓ So yeah, that's my latest hyper fixation. I listened to like, I don't know, 15 podcasts about it in between things. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. I love it. ⁓ I'm a big podcast listener and audiobook reader, so I very much relate to that. ⁓ love ⁓ much you smile when you talk about your focus on current crime murder mysteries and royals, of course. And I'm really thankful for you for coming on the podcast and for sharing with us your knowledge. Caroline Maguire: You Daniella Karidi, PhD: ⁓ If you can tell people where they can find you and where they can buy the book, there'll be a link, I promise, for all of them. Caroline Maguire: So you can buy the book anywhere books are sold. It is available in the United States, but also in Canada and the UK now and Australia. And it's been bought in France. I'm sorry, in Spain. And so ⁓ not in France, sorry, but is everywhere. So ⁓ I'm really and happy about that. And I would you can find me. I do a lot on Instagram at Author Caroline But honestly, if you just Google like friendship skills for neurodorsal adults, like everything comes up in Google in that magical way. And I love to hear from people. I love to hear like what you're reading and what your reaction is to things. And I've had people, you know, writing me like, I have just like this one question and I'm like, sure. I will be doing more of the like webinars with Q and A's and stuff as we go forward. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yep. And in the book, by the way, there's a QR code where you can scan some of like activities, if you don't like some worksheets, cause lot of us don't like to write inside our books. ⁓ I love that. So if you purchase a book or you get the audio book, you can get the PDF of those worksheets too, which is very useful and very helpful. Again, thank you. Well, thank you much for coming and joining me. And I really appreciate. Caroline Maguire: ⁓ I'm glad you like that. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And I'm hoping to see you at our next ADHD conference. Caroline Maguire: I am too, I'm so excited we've met now. you know, now we've met and we know we have so much in common. It's awesome. I've definitely, I hope it's at a venue where I actually like see you. We'll have to exchange digits so that I can text you and be like, I'm here, where are you? Yes, exactly. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Bye. Yes, we can take our friendship to the next level. Exactly. you very much. Caroline Maguire: Thank you. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So how did you feel about the conversation?