Latest / The Swine Nutrition Blackbelt Podcast / Dr. R. Dean Boyd: Soybean Meal Energy Values in Practice - Part 2 | Ep. 179

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Dr. R. Dean Boyd: Soybean Meal Energy Values in Practice - Part 2 | Ep. 179 · The Swine Nutrition Blackbelt Podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we made a discovery purely by accident.
• 0:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: We found that the level of energy that the pig seems to find in the commercial environment was very different, much higher than the academic environment.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: At that point,
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: We doubted the data, we take a bit, but at the end of the day, there's a different answer in the academic environment than there is a commercial environment.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: The answers are not in conflict, but they're different from good reasons.
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to thank the innovative companies and products who support and trust make this podcast possible.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Srain Nutrition, Black Web Podcast.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where we explore the science behind Srain Nutrition.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Horestra.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And today our podcast, we have Dr. Dean Boy.
• 0:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: For the second time, he's going to help us to understand a little bit better the soil being met energy in principle and practice the greatest case in result.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So last time, with his cause, a little bit regarding the theory,
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: the different bodies of energy and now in this episode we're going to take a little bit more into the practical ways to get into the energy and also we're hoping that Dr. Boyne is going to share with us some of the resources that we can go and look for to explore a little bit more in this.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: going to to that specific point Dr. Boy, which is basically the practical formulation in order to fit pigs.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it is also my understanding that I'll don't really believe that they estimate of the net energy coming from Illinois.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: for soybean milk is correct.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: The value might be a little bit different of the recommendation for commercial practice, meaning that in commercial practice is probably higher about.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this true?
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you have just taken us or to the second side of the coin.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: What we have just sorted out is the classic or substrate net energy for soybean milk.
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the estimates that Han Stein has, very less than one percent from what Hanor has, very similar to Cargill Animal Nutrition.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, those, that is classic net energy, and that's important to sort out so that the absolute minimum net energy used to compare ingredients in a database is established correctly.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're now at a, where we just flipped over the coin.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: When we were sorting this out back in early, two thousands to two thousand ten, we took the growth assay that we conducted in relatively academic circumstances and with low pathogen and low pig density, et cetera.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we applied it to a very capable commercial environment where there were ten thousand pigs on a site, two barns were retrofitted, extremely good research facilities, and you have them many others that.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we made a discovery purely by accident.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we found that the level of energy
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: that the pig seems to find in the commercial environment was very different, much higher than the academic environment.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, at that point, we doubted the data, we tabled it.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, there's a different answer in the academic environment than there is a commercial environment.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Jorge, Jorge,
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: The answers are not in conflict, but they're different for good reasons.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's excellent insight and it's very similar to what has happened with other ingredients, right?
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what happened with the disease at the time and stuff like that, we know, we were learning how to use them, right?
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think, you know, peace in the university setting will give a different memory value for soybean meals compared to those facing a commercial environment?
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pardon me for a minute.
• 4:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to make one additional point.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: The data that we found was in two thousand ten.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I told you that we indefinitely table that I failed to tell you that in that setting,
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: A commercial setting, we didn't get the eighty-two to eighty-three percent of corn energy.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We got one hundred and nine percent of corn.
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that stunned us to press this, we tabled it.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Erin Gaines and I then worked with the CP group, Nutritionists, who are quite capable, who decided maybe we weren't good researchers and they could help us out.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: So they did so.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: They conducted a study with soybean and commercial environment early growth and mid-finish and they came to us so depressed.
• 5:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've never seen them and almost ashamed because they said in the early phase in growth we got a hundred and ten percent of corn.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: and mid-finish for a long period, we got ninety-eight percent of corn.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we resurrected our data and it appears in Feast of Sarticle II and then since then, Jorge, you're aware that not only is KSU and JBS had done these studies but so are various integrators and you have been kind enough to make your data a public.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: as to why.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what you're asking about.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: We learned, I guess, some things you do right and later you discover how right it was.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: When we conduct these studies and certainly when Cardinal conducts its studies and when Ross and Purina when they were in the big business used to,
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We conduct those in an academic university like environment.
• 6:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you can't have temperature problems, you can't have pathogen challenges, all those things.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: But when we move to commercial operation, the concentration of pathogens and immune challenges can be significant, even though the pigs are healthy.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we said,
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll label this extra nutrient effect something other than a nutrient effect as productive energy.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And productive energy is not something you generally apply.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's for this limited case where we said it looks like we have the classic ingredient NE for soybean.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then once it's in the whole diet,
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's something about it that causes the diet energy to be conserved and pushed toward growth.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's some physiological benefit that we're getting from the soybean that we can't describe in terms of what we know about nutrients.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's as an environmental difference as we expect it at this time.
• 8:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now this is such a fascinating topic and not just for soybean meal, but as you're saying, this probably has a lot of impact from the commercial environment, compared to the university environment for very many ingredients, right?
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So before we go, could you let us know, where can people maybe go to further study the research and the principles that we have discussed today?
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: We can decide how to best get this to those who are interested, but I would say the best single source for the classic net energy sorted out from the productive energy and the commercial environment is the paper that Aaron Gaines and I published in the mid-west swine nutrition conference of in their proceedings
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we can decide how to make that easily available to them.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: The next thing is there's a series of feedstuffs papers, Jorge, that you're aware of.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are very confidently done, not a single one of those studies that I was involved with were paid for by the soybean group.
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: These are located on the website, SoyaFect.
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: One word, SoyaFect.ussoi.org.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: If they then look for additional resources, they'll see feed-stuffs articles and feed-stuffs article one and two will help them greatly.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to provide my email address if you would like.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Of course I'll throw away.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please go ahead.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: All small case D is in D. Boyd is in Boyd.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: D-B-O-Y-D at C is in Cat I and
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy to receive all comments, questions, abusive, they would like to.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, Dr. Boyne, thanks again for joining us today.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
• 10:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate it.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone else, thanks for listening to the Srain Nutrition Black Metal Test.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to subscribe and leave us some comments.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Join us in our next episode.