Latest / hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic / What Men Get Wrong About Testosterone, Stress & Recovery | Shawn Stevenson

Transcript

What Men Get Wrong About Testosterone, Stress & Recovery | Shawn Stevenson · hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

• Shawn Stevenson - Full Audio [00:00:00] Shawn Stevenson: There is a direct, deep correlation between the amount of steps we take [00:00:05] and our testosterone levels. This was just published in the Journal Endr- Endocrinology in 2021. 4,000 [00:00:10] steps a day was that minimum effective dose just to [00:00:15] not basically go in reverse. [00:00:17] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:00:18] Shawn Stevenson: But at 8,000 steps a day, [00:00:20] there was a notable increase in testosterone levels. It's not just that it's [00:00:25] magic- Yeah ... it's because it's improving insulin sensitivity. Yeah. It's helping to [00:00:30] mobilize body fat for fuel. When you're walking, which is so interesting, we've evolved [00:00:35] over thousands of years to be very good at using stored body fat when you're just walking [00:00:40] leisurely. [00:00:40] Dr. Taz: Sean Stevenson is the host of The Model Health Show and the best-selling author of Eat [00:00:45] Smarter, Sleep Smarter, and the Eat Smarter Family Cookbook. [00:00:48] Shawn Stevenson: The number one determinant on [00:00:50] how long you're going to live and live healthfully is the quality of your relationships. Yeah. What he [00:00:55] called strong social bonds. Mm. Having healthy relationships is one of the most powerful [00:01:00] means of metabolizing stress. [00:01:01] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:01:01] Shawn Stevenson: Because so often you're just in your own head and just [00:01:05] in this tornado, in this blender, trying to figure stuff out. [00:01:07] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:01:08] Shawn Stevenson: And it's not necessarily like [00:01:10] venting, which might be a part, but just knowing that somebody's there for you at the end of the day- Yeah ... that has your back and [00:01:15] you can share with, or just to be there for you. We need that. We need each other. [00:01:19] Dr. Taz: In this [00:01:20] episode, we're talking about what men are getting wrong about health, what trainers often [00:01:25] miss, how chronic pain changes your identity, and what young men and men of [00:01:30] any age need to understand about building a healthier body and a healthier life.[00:01:35] Let's welcome Sean Stevenson to the show. This episode is sponsored by [00:01:40] WHOLEplus, a holistic health platform built around education, personalization, and [00:01:45] integrative care. WHOLEplus blends holistic, integrative, and functional medicine [00:01:50] clinics with learning resources like blogs, YouTube videos, and of course, this podcast, [00:01:55] so you're not just treated, you're informed. The platform also includes holistic [00:02:00] health quizzes and a curated wellness shop, helping you make choices that support your body at [00:02:05] the root level Whole Plus is holistic healthcare designed for real [00:02:10] life. Visit us at wholeplus.co to [00:02:13] Shawn Stevenson: learn more about the platform. [00:02:15] Again, that's W-H-O-L-P-L-U-S dot C-O. [00:02:18] Dr. Taz: All right, a little bit of role [00:02:20] reversal here. I've been on your show a couple of times. I am honored to have you here [00:02:25] today on Whole Plus. You have been sort of a, I guess, pioneer. Is that [00:02:30] the best word in terms of- All right ... s- kinda carving the space in terms of [00:02:35] health advocacy, talking about health, understanding how all the pieces fit together. You start... You... When did [00:02:40] you enter the space, just out of curiosity? [00:02:41] Shawn Stevenson: Well, I've been in health and fitness for [00:02:45] 22, 23 years, something like that. It's crazy. I think [00:02:47] Dr. Taz: that's a pioneer definition right [00:02:49] Shawn Stevenson: there. Pretty, pretty [00:02:50] bonkers. [00:02:50] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:02:50] Shawn Stevenson: Um, I started off working at my university gym- [00:02:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:02:53] Shawn Stevenson: that I was attending, personal trainer, [00:02:55] strength and conditioning coach. I studied nutrition. Um, I took a actual [00:03:00] nutritional science class in, in college. [00:03:01] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:03:02] Shawn Stevenson: And, uh, biology, [00:03:05] kinesiology, and just wanted to help people. Yeah. And so that led to, [00:03:10] um, working with people one-on-one, you know, speaking at conferences, writing [00:03:15] books, and then the podcast medium showed up, which again, I was just like, "How can I reach more [00:03:20] people?" And so it's been 13 years. We just celebrated our 1,000th episode. [00:03:24] Dr. Taz: [00:03:25] 1,000th episode. Yeah. Yeah. That's amaz- It's crazy ... and it's like the number one. You're up there in the charts. [00:03:29] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. Yeah, it's like [00:03:30] Billboard charts, you know? I know. But we've been number one, I mean, many, many weeks. [00:03:33] Dr. Taz: So impressive. Yeah. [00:03:35] So impressive. Well, you know, it's not easy entering the space, trying to carve [00:03:40] a path, trying to educate everyone about all the different things without overwhelming them. Yes. [00:03:45] That's a gift and a talent. Right. And motivating people is a lot of what you and I both do, [00:03:50] you know, and trying to get them to that next step or that next piece of the puzzle. I've spent [00:03:55] a lot of time in the women's health space, right? My original podcast was Superwoman Wellness. [00:04:00] We rebranded to Whole Plus to really engage the family and the community in this conversation [00:04:05] as well- Yes ... and to really take the whole-body approach. And the reason I selfishly invited you on here [00:04:10] today- is that, you know, in many of our conversations, you've told me your [00:04:15] story, and it has struck me or has struck me that, you know, [00:04:20] men in the area of men's health, we have Father's Day coming up shortly, but the area of men's [00:04:25] health I think is still neglected. Hmm. I know that there is a lot from the women's [00:04:30] side about we don't have research dollars and, and I know all of that, and I know a lot of the research medically has been done [00:04:35] on men, but I don't think we're having the right conversations- Yes when it [00:04:40] comes to men's health. Because data shows and statistics show that men show up when something's [00:04:45] wrong, and then if men are showing up, at least in our clinics, it's usually their [00:04:50] testosterone's off, they want peptides, you know, m- or there's something wrong. You know, they're [00:04:55] very sick. So if you pull back on your 20-something years of, of doing this [00:05:00] work, what would you say about men's health? What, what, what's happening there? [00:05:05] [00:05:05] Shawn Stevenson: I mean, it's a bit of a, uh, of a mess right now. It's a bit of a tornado, [00:05:10] but people are talking, which is always good. And, you know, right now [00:05:15] more than ever, I think it's really lacking the psychology piece [00:05:20] with men- Mm ... and educating men. Because our tendencies are to [00:05:25] do more, to grind. [00:05:26] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:05:26] Shawn Stevenson: Right? Or of course, we can fall into some nothingness, but [00:05:30] that's kind of more the minority of just, you know, burnout. But for a lot of us, when we're [00:05:35] striving to achieve all the things, to have the health and fitness, to, [00:05:40] um, to overcome the dad bod- Yeah ... it's just like I gotta grind. Right. I gotta do more. I gotta hit the... [00:05:45] And the reality is it often can't be further from the truth. [00:05:49] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:05:49] Shawn Stevenson: You [00:05:50] know, it's really about leverage. It's about doing the small things consistently. [00:05:55] And, you know, I'm saying this from experience- Right ... because I've done all the things- Right ... for sure. Right. I've tested all the things. I've [00:06:00] tested them with people. And of course, just being a research scientist and studying this stuff, [00:06:05] it's, for me, I think the overarching message needs to be that [00:06:10] it is remarkably simple. Mm. It's remarkably simple to [00:06:15] be healthy, to be fit. Caveat. [00:06:18] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:06:19] Shawn Stevenson: [00:06:20] It's more complicated because we live in a unwell society, though, right? So [00:06:25] it's creating your own little microculture so that you can get these results, and that's what we're gonna be talking about [00:06:30] today. [00:06:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah, absolutely. [00:06:31] Shawn Stevenson: Um, because, you know, and th- I just got this hormone [00:06:35] panel done- I [00:06:35] Dr. Taz: know. We're gonna talk about this ... [00:06:36] Shawn Stevenson: about a year ago. Crazy. Yeah, I had no idea. I mean, I can tell... Once you [00:06:40] share, but- Okay ... you know, I can tell you how, how I got there. [00:06:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:06:44] Shawn Stevenson: And [00:06:45] also more than, more, more important than anything, my psychology around it and how [00:06:50] I feel, so. [00:06:52] Dr. Taz: Okay. These are all very important words. Grind, leverage, [00:06:55] psychology, and then hormones, right? So where does the grind mentality [00:07:00] come from for men? [00:07:02] Shawn Stevenson: You know, there's a part of it that's always been [00:07:05] there, you know, as far as, like, tradition, you know, through different generations, you know, getting up, [00:07:10] going out, and conquering, and, you know, bringing back the food- [00:07:14] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:07:14] Shawn Stevenson: and [00:07:15] protecting and all these things are... These are embedded in our DNA, and it- and that's- [00:07:19] Dr. Taz: And you [00:07:20] feel it. [00:07:20] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. And that's- Yeah ... it- it's okay. And that's the thing. Like, having these conversations with men and women, I could tell [00:07:25] you I feel it. [00:07:26] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:07:26] Shawn Stevenson: I have that f- that feeling, and you might have a feeling that's different. It [00:07:30] might be- Right ... you know, fill in the blank. And I'm not gonna- [00:07:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:07:32] Shawn Stevenson: I'm not gonna guess, but it might be [00:07:35] to be more nurturing- Yeah ... to be more patient, to bring people together. And it's not to say that [00:07:40] we don't h- both have each of those, but I really feel that drive, [00:07:45] and that drive might push me to sacrifice myself in a different way than [00:07:50] women. Mm-hmm. Over the years, most of the people that I work with have been women, and I've seen that [00:07:55] self-sacrifice, and this cookie cutter put yourself first. How? [00:07:59] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:07:59] Shawn Stevenson: You know? [00:08:00] Like- Yeah ... I'm working against my own psychology, and also how our culture is now [00:08:05] constructed as well, there's really no balance. And so, you know, um, so that's there [00:08:10] definitely as a driving force for me. It's just, like, that DNA part. But also culturally, [00:08:15] we're programmed the same way. We're supposed to do all these things. We're supposed to check o- check [00:08:20] off all these boxes to call ourselves a man. [00:08:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:08:23] Shawn Stevenson: To call ourselves [00:08:25] successful. And, you know, a- again, it's not to [00:08:30] say that it's bad, but just look at the results. I'm a big results [00:08:35] guy. [00:08:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:08:35] Shawn Stevenson: At the end of the day. [00:08:36] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:08:37] Shawn Stevenson: The way that we've been conditioned, the way that our culture's constructed, [00:08:40] it's not leading to great health outcomes, bottom line. [00:08:43] Dr. Taz: Well, men are [00:08:45] often... You know, they suffer from cardiovascular disease. They gain weight. We have an [00:08:50] obesity crisis among them, depression, anxiety in the form of alcoholism [00:08:55] or even drug abuse and addictions of all kinds. And then, of course, the suicide rate in [00:09:00] men is higher than it is in women, for sure. Again, not to make this a sobering [00:09:05] episode, but the other word you use is leverage. What do you mean by that? [00:09:10] [00:09:11] Shawn Stevenson: You know, it's like Archimedes, you know? Finding that leverage [00:09:15] point and a, a lever long enough in that position, and I can move the world. And [00:09:20] we have to do that in our own micro world, our own micro environment. [00:09:25] And so, you know, this concept of, you know, doing more and [00:09:30] grinding, and just shifting gears and looking at so what is the counter to that? [00:09:35] Because there i- and by the way, there is room to work hard- [00:09:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:09:37] Shawn Stevenson: for sure. Mm-hmm. Like, that's n- that's [00:09:40] non-negotiable, but that doesn't mean that it has to be something we do all the time.[00:09:45] Um, and so I wanna share this. One of the things that I really did to kinda stack conditions in my [00:09:50] favor, and if you could, I mean, should we share the results- [00:09:52] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... right now really quickly? Let's talk about it. So all right, so, [00:09:55] uh, for everybody watching and listening, Shawn sent over his testosterone [00:10:00] levels, right? That you did recently- Yeah ... I believe. [00:10:02] Shawn Stevenson: When I was 45. [00:10:03] Dr. Taz: Can I share the number? A, a year ago. Can I share [00:10:05] the number? Yeah, sure. Okay. So as a, you know, as a functional and integrative physician, I get to look at these labs [00:10:10] all the time, and I've got 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds that are [00:10:15] trying to get their testosterone level to a 400. They're bottoming out for all kinds of [00:10:20] different reasons. And then of course, we have the population in their 40s and 50s. Shawn [00:10:25] sent me today his testosterone level at the age of 46, which is at [00:10:30] 1,038 is I think when I saw the total number as. And no [00:10:35] hormone replacement therapy, correct? Correct. No peptides. No. [00:10:40] No. No complicated protocols or regimens or stacks- Yeah ... or any [00:10:45] of that type of thing. People would be [00:10:45] Shawn Stevenson: shocked to find out how- [00:10:47] Dr. Taz: So- ... rarely I work out ... 1,000 [00:10:50] is high. It's good. Yeah. It's a good high. So help us [00:10:55] with why you are not sucked into this declining testosterone level that is [00:11:00] one of the central tenets of men's health- Yeah that I'm seeing kind of in the exam room. [00:11:04] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, yeah. [00:11:05] And, you know, again, for me, getting the, the, the blood work done, it was more of a [00:11:10] affirmation- [00:11:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:11:10] Shawn Stevenson: of course ... because I know how I feel. Like, I feel like I'm in my 20s. And then I did the whole biological age [00:11:15] and whatnot. [00:11:15] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:11:15] Shawn Stevenson: And I was about a decade younger. And so but that's just one aspect, the testosterone piece, [00:11:20] and this is not just about, you know, this kinda masculine- [00:11:24] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:11:24] Shawn Stevenson: [00:11:25] driven, aggressive. It's not that. It's, it's really one of these elements of how we [00:11:30] feel in our life, in our drive. And- With that being [00:11:35] said, again, yes, there is a place for working hard, building muscle, [00:11:40] training, that kind of stuff. But I work out, you know, maybe four times a week, [00:11:45] f- maybe 45 minutes as far as, like, strength training. [00:11:47] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:11:48] Shawn Stevenson: A lot of my [00:11:50] weeks, and it's been like this for decades- Okay ... you know? But a lot of my, lot of my weeks are [00:11:55] dedicated to slowing down- [00:11:57] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:11:58] Shawn Stevenson: doing the small [00:12:00] thing. And so just to give you a great example, this was just published in the Journal Endr- Endocrinology, [00:12:05] uh, in 2021. This was just published recently. And so what they found was that [00:12:10] there is a direct deep correlation between the amount of steps we t- [00:12:15] take and our testosterone levels. All right? And that's not something that I would even- [00:12:20] Correlate ... maybe even accept- [00:12:21] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:12:22] Shawn Stevenson: back when I was in college training- Right ... and training athletes and that kind of [00:12:25] thing. Right. Just like, walking? Wait, f- for what? Like, it's gonna- Yeah ... take you too long. [00:12:29] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:12:29] Shawn Stevenson: And so [00:12:30] what the researchers found was that 4,000 steps a day was that minimum effective [00:12:35] dose just to not basically go in reverse. [00:12:39] Dr. Taz: [00:12:40] Mm. [00:12:40] Shawn Stevenson: All right? Which is, okay, 4,000 steps a day, a lot of people aren't even getting that.[00:12:45] But at 8,000 steps a day, there was a notable increase in testosterone [00:12:50] levels for men, and they were looking at middle-aged men. [00:12:52] Dr. Taz: Hm. [00:12:52] Shawn Stevenson: All right? And so of [00:12:55] course there's been some controversy around the 10,000 steps a day- Right, right ... and where the origins and this and- Right ... and they did this and [00:13:00] that. But somewhere between 8,000 and 12,000 steps a day is correlated [00:13:05] with higher, uh, levels of testosterone. And so I just spent a lot of- And [00:13:09] Dr. Taz: walking- [00:13:09] Shawn Stevenson: [00:13:10] Yeah ... [00:13:10] Dr. Taz: guys Just walking. It's just walking. Just walking. Oh my gosh. Walk for your testosterone. [00:13:13] Shawn Stevenson: And but it's not just that [00:13:15] it's magic. Yeah. It's because it's improving insulin sensitivity. [00:13:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:13:19] Shawn Stevenson: It's [00:13:20] because it's helping to mobilize body fat for fuel. [00:13:25] When we are training and doing the, the more, uh, difficult stuff, the high intensity interval training kind of [00:13:30] stuff, it's very glycolytic. [00:13:31] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:13:31] Shawn Stevenson: You know? And it's not to say that we don't, don't burn fat, but our bodies have [00:13:35] trained, have evolved to use certain fuels at certain times. [00:13:38] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:13:39] Shawn Stevenson: And so [00:13:40] it's going to go through this process of breaking down stored glycogen, you know, the food [00:13:45] maybe that you just had recently. This [00:13:46] Dr. Taz: is the heavy lifting you're talking [00:13:47] Shawn Stevenson: about- Yeah and the grinding. Strength training. Yeah. Okay. Moving [00:13:50] quickly. Yep. And those things are awesome. And then we do have the afterburn effect where you are burning fat, [00:13:55] uh, residually. But when you're walking, which is so interesting- [00:14:00] Our bodies, we've evolved over thousands of years to be very good at using [00:14:05] stored body fat when you're just walking leisurely. [00:14:07] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:14:07] Shawn Stevenson: Or even a brisk walk. Our bodies know [00:14:10] to just, "Let me go and g- grab this fat for fuel." You know? This isn't something that's very [00:14:15] intense. And so that kinda speaks to this parasympathetic tone as well [00:14:20] and how rarely we're in that state today. A lot of [00:14:25] us are in this fight or flight, cortisol, adrenaline. Great in spots. [00:14:29] Dr. Taz: [00:14:30] Right. [00:14:30] Shawn Stevenson: But chronically, we're gonna be storing more fat. [00:14:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:14:32] Shawn Stevenson: It's gonna be causing havoc with [00:14:35] our testosterone levels, right? Cortisol can have some ... [00:14:40] Um, why am I thinking about the Beat It video? Michael Jackson, like- Yeah ... the gangs. Yeah, [00:14:44] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:14:44] Shawn Stevenson: It [00:14:45] can have some gang war with your sex hormones. Your body, [00:14:47] Dr. Taz: yeah. [00:14:48] Shawn Stevenson: You know? And so this [00:14:50] speaks to, again, why walking is so powerful. And in that same vein with [00:14:55] the, uh, insulin sensitivity- Even one of the things, you might [00:15:00] even p- be, your body might be making testosterone, but it could, it, it could be getting aromatized [00:15:04] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:15:05] [00:15:05] Shawn Stevenson: right? It can be g- getting converted into estrogen, right? Aromatization, primary driver of [00:15:10] that is high insulin levels. [00:15:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:15:12] Shawn Stevenson: Right? And so again, we're just addressing so many [00:15:15] things just by- Just by walking ... going on a simple walk, especially if we [00:15:20] have the capacity to do this outside. [00:15:22] Dr. Taz: If you're listening to this and thinking, [00:15:25] "I know something is off in my body, but I don't know where to start," [00:15:30] this is for you. That's why I created the Circle. The Circle is my [00:15:35] private community where I and my team focus on understanding your body from hormones [00:15:40] and stress to metabolic health and longevity with real-life guidance that you can [00:15:45] actually use. This is about clarity and consistency and support [00:15:50] beyond the exam room and maybe outside of all the different appointments and experts that [00:15:55] you've been running around to. You can try the Circle with a one-month trial using the [00:16:00] promo code podcast at wholeplus.co/circle. Again, [00:16:05] that's Whole Plus, wholeplus.co/circle. [00:16:10] All right, let's jump back into the episode. So this is so interesting 'cause I've, again, [00:16:15] like I was saying, I've looked at so many labs with so many men over the years, and one of the things [00:16:20] I'll tell them is that, 'cause most of them want testosterone, right? That's kinda the end [00:16:25] game. They want testosterone replacement therapy in some form or fashion. [00:16:30] But cortisol being high and something called an RT3 [00:16:35] being high and estrone, which is a stored form of estrogen, being high, [00:16:40] I will tell them that testosterone is not the right first step, that we actually have to work on [00:16:45] bringing that cortisol level down first- Hmm before we can think about, you know, any type of [00:16:50] hormone replacement therapy. And it's a concept that sometimes gets perceived and sometimes does [00:16:55] not. You know, why, what would you tell men listening to the show today [00:17:00] or their wives or whoever who, you know, who may pass this on to them, you know, how can they [00:17:05] tell when they are in a high cortisol state? [00:17:07] Shawn Stevenson: Hmm. Wow. [00:17:10] You know, there's a couple of things going around social media now, the cortisol face- [00:17:15] Yes. [00:17:15] Dr. Taz: Yes, [00:17:15] Shawn Stevenson: yes, yes ... and also the cortisol belly. There's more [00:17:20] receptor sites for cortisol located around that [00:17:25] midsection. Mm-hmm. And a- again, this could be a survival, uh, adaptation. [00:17:28] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:17:29] Shawn Stevenson: And [00:17:30] so if you find that you're storing more belly fat, [00:17:35] and by the way, it can go the opposite as well. Like, you could be just kinda taking it [00:17:40] o- taking some time off, chilling, just feeling more relaxed, and you notice, like, "Dang, like I'm l- looking a little [00:17:45] leaner." [00:17:45] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:17:45] Shawn Stevenson: You know? So th- those are a couple of things, but also you'll notice in [00:17:50] your, in your temperament, in your energy as well. Now here's the crazy part. When I got those [00:17:55] labs done, that was after the most difficult year of my adult [00:18:00] life. [00:18:00] Dr. Taz: What? [00:18:01] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:02] Dr. Taz: Assuming high cortisol. [00:18:03] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. [00:18:05] Yes. I had my practices though. I had my practices to keep me afloat. [00:18:09] Dr. Taz: [00:18:10] Yeah. [00:18:10] Shawn Stevenson: But I, I gotta tell you, even shortly thereafter, it kind of like, [00:18:15] even, even me, like I had a breaking point where I was just like kinda done, you know? And I really had to scale it back [00:18:20] and get more into this parasympathetic, more into the relaxation. I was still [00:18:25] training, I was still meditating, I was still walking regularly, which I'm gonna share some of these [00:18:30] insights. [00:18:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:18:31] Shawn Stevenson: But we all have a breaking point, and a lot of guys aren't, aren't trying to [00:18:35] hear that. [00:18:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:18:35] Shawn Stevenson: You know, especially when you're talking about addressing stress, it's just like that, [00:18:40] that's just life. That's a part of life. Stress, and there's some great science [00:18:45] on, on stress now. We need stress, right? The hormetic stressors. It makes us [00:18:50] better if we are, if we heal from it. That's the key. [00:18:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:18:54] Shawn Stevenson: [00:18:55] Today, if you wanna think about it like, um... Because I know for me, I didn't think that I was [00:19:00] excessively stressed because I wasn't stressed at work, quote, "At work," 'cause I love what I do. [00:19:03] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:19:04] Shawn Stevenson: Right? [00:19:04] Dr. Taz: [00:19:05] Right. [00:19:05] Shawn Stevenson: But it's not just that stress. If you think about your biology, just picture [00:19:10] yourself, maybe you take your, the top of your head off, and like [00:19:15] all of these stress inputs are going in, right? So you got your work stress, sure. Then you, then you got [00:19:20] relationship stress, then you've got financial stress, then you've got food [00:19:25] stress. [00:19:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:25] Shawn Stevenson: Then you've got exercise stress, which again, could be a good stressor, but what [00:19:30] happens if I'm training for a marathon on top of all the other stuff? [00:19:32] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:19:33] Shawn Stevenson: Right? We've got, [00:19:35] um, emotional stress. We've got spiritual stress. Like what if you don't feel like you are [00:19:40] in alignment or on, on your purpose, or that you matter, you know? And so all [00:19:45] of these things are going in, and our overall s- sleep. You know, sleep deprivation, another stress input. [00:19:50] And so that's where the system can break down. And for me, it was a lot of changes at once. [00:19:54] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:19:54] Shawn Stevenson: This [00:19:55] whole like midlife crisis stuff- [00:19:56] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:19:56] Shawn Stevenson: I used to hear about- Yeah ... or like a John Mayer song- It's real. ... you know, like a [00:20:00] quarter-life crisis. [00:20:00] Dr. Taz: Quarter-life crisis, yep. [00:20:01] Shawn Stevenson: What I found is that it's because of so many changes [00:20:05] at once with the generations on either side of you. [00:20:07] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:20:08] Shawn Stevenson: Right? So my father passed. [00:20:09] Dr. Taz: [00:20:10] Oh. [00:20:10] Shawn Stevenson: My wife's father passed. My oldest son moved out. Kinda not, again, [00:20:15] not in the pl- not in the plan. It wasn't as graceful of a move out. [00:20:20] Um, and this is just amidst a, a thousand other things seemingly happening at one time. Right. And I [00:20:25] was able to persevere through it, and that's the thing. Like a lot of men, I took it all upon myself, [00:20:30] because my wife was really torn up about all of it. [00:20:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:20:32] Shawn Stevenson: Like 10X more than me. [00:20:33] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:20:34] Shawn Stevenson: [00:20:35] And I was just carrying like, "Everybody get on my back. We're gonna, we're gonna keep going forward." [00:20:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah, [00:20:39] Shawn Stevenson: yeah. [00:20:40] Until I just, I couldn't carry everybody [00:20:41] Dr. Taz: anymore. Mm. [00:20:43] Shawn Stevenson: And so, but grateful- [00:20:45] thankfully, doing this work over the years, I, I have a tendency to [00:20:50] learn lessons really quickly. And so, you know, to, just to circle everything [00:20:55] back The strength training is absolutely critical. And [00:21:00] it's not... And Har- some Harvard researchers found that this also helps to build mental, mental resilience- [00:21:04] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:21:04] Shawn Stevenson: [00:21:05] in a controlled setting, which you can then bring out into your day-to-day life. You just feel more strong [00:21:10] and capable. Not to mention the insulin sensitivity, not to [00:21:15] mention the myokines and all the stuff that we're talking, uh, you know, learning about today. [00:21:20] Um, not to mention that muscle is really a reservoir. Muscle fun- mu- muscle is an endocrine [00:21:25] organ. You know, this, I was not taught this in my university education. Yeah, [00:21:28] Dr. Taz: none of us were. Yeah. [00:21:28] Shawn Stevenson: Right? And so this is... [00:21:30] But here's the thing. This is an endocrine organ we can directly control [00:21:35] if we use it, if we contract our muscles. So there is a place for that. And [00:21:40] so that piece, we, we absolutely need, but it's [00:21:45] le- far less than you think. Yeah. You don't need to be hanging out at the gym all the time. Yeah. As a matter of fact, some of the people I see at the [00:21:50] gym, they're there before me and after me. They're not really- They're not getting the [00:21:54] Dr. Taz: results [00:21:54] Shawn Stevenson: You know what I mean? They... Yeah, [00:21:55] yeah. Yeah, [00:21:55] Dr. Taz: I [00:21:55] Shawn Stevenson: got it. I'll say it. You know? [00:21:56] Dr. Taz: It's... [00:21:56] Shawn Stevenson: So, but for me, I'm a big guy of stacking [00:22:00] conditions, so I mentioned the walking and I mentioned doing it outside. [00:22:02] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:22:02] Shawn Stevenson: And this is one of the [00:22:05] most overlooked, and also this could kinda parry into the biohacking [00:22:10] medium. [00:22:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:11] Shawn Stevenson: And I recently... Well, this was when I first moved to, to [00:22:15] LA. I spoke at the, the big biohacking event. Like, I was one of the keynote speakers, and they brought [00:22:20] me in for common sense. [00:22:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:22:22] Shawn Stevenson: Right? Yeah. Because there's all these fancy things and the [00:22:25] self-quantification and all these devices and tactics and... But sometimes you just need to go [00:22:30] outside. [00:22:30] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:22:30] Shawn Stevenson: You know, a lot of these guys are, like, paying for this, you know, I don't know, [00:22:35] $100,000 red light therapy bed. [00:22:37] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:22:38] Shawn Stevenson: But they don't even go outside- Right and, you [00:22:40] know, actually get real sunlight. And so the reason I mention doing it outside, because you can stack conditions [00:22:45] with the walk and getting some sun exposure Thank [00:22:50] goodness. And again, I'm just gonna bring it down since we're talking about testosterone. [00:22:55] Cholesterol in our bodies- [00:22:58] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:22:59] Shawn Stevenson: [00:23:00] sun's rays, vitamin... I, I'm sorry, U- UVB- [00:23:03] Dr. Taz: Yep ... [00:23:03] Shawn Stevenson: converts this into our [00:23:05] sex hormones. All right? This is just one of the primary channels for our bodies to actually make our sex [00:23:10] hormones. We need some sun exposure. This is not saying to go out and spend [00:23:15] hours in the sun, and you have no- you haven't built up that capacity- Right ... of course. Right. Be safe, be [00:23:20] smart, but this is the reason we have life on this planet, you know? So [00:23:25] keep it in context. We need sun exposure to produce our sex hormones. And [00:23:30] so for me, if I can get a 20, 20 to 30-minute walk in each day outside, [00:23:35] get some sunlight, it's just stacking conditions for me. And, um, no matter [00:23:40] where we are... And by the way, I'm from Missouri. [00:23:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:23:41] Shawn Stevenson: All right? I grew up in St. Louis, born and raised. [00:23:45] I know what it's like to have those long winters as well. And so we do the best that we can, [00:23:50] especially when, when we have access, so in the spring, in the fall, in the summer, safely get in some sun [00:23:55] exposure. And I'm not saying that we can store it per se, but we can definitely build [00:24:00] up our levels of vitamin D and, and our sex hormones as well.[00:24:05] And so that's another one of those things that's very simple, free. [00:24:10] [00:24:10] Dr. Taz: Easy to do- It's so- ... [00:24:10] Shawn Stevenson: anywhere [00:24:11] Dr. Taz: you go. Yeah ... [00:24:12] Shawn Stevenson: simple and free [00:24:15] And there's no supplement that's more powerful than getting adequate sun exposure. There's [00:24:20] nothing. And with that being said, one other piece to add [00:24:25] to the mix- Yep ... and then over there, there are some other things too, but- Yep, [00:24:26] Dr. Taz: yep, yep [00:24:27] Shawn Stevenson: um, so the strength training piece, [00:24:30] um, walking, the sun exposure, and the stress management piece. [00:24:35] And so there's some really interesting data emerging on [00:24:40] the power of meditation in this context of, [00:24:45] uh, the immunomodulation, right? This psychoneuroimmunology, [00:24:50] psychoneuroendocrinology, and helping to put us in more of an anabolic state.[00:24:55] So again, this could look like testosterone. This could look like just improved, [00:25:00] uh, overall endocrine function, and this is by sitting our [00:25:05] behinds down and just being quiet. That's one form of meditation, of course. There's moving [00:25:10] meditations, there's standing meditations, there's mindfulness practices, but this is speaking [00:25:15] to f- making the decision to find out what works best for you [00:25:20] right now. [00:25:20] Dr. Taz: So being in a parasympathetic state, as you've said, is one of the keys [00:25:25] to improving cortisol and testosterone levels, which are linked together. [00:25:30] That's... I think that's a message that we don't want our audience to lose, that those concepts are linked [00:25:35] together. Being in a parasympathetic state means to be in [00:25:40] a meditative, lower stress- Yes lower cortisol state. You talk a lot about [00:25:45] you already had these tools in place when, when kind of the rubber hit the road, so to speak. [00:25:50] W- walk us through a day in your life. Like, what do you do when you wake up in the morning, [00:25:55] and as you move throughout the day or even throughout a week? What are some of the core tenets that you [00:26:00] try to hold onto? [00:26:01] Shawn Stevenson: I love that. And just a, a little quick, super quick [00:26:05] caveat. [00:26:05] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:26:05] Shawn Stevenson: When I was struggling with all that craziness- [00:26:08] Dr. Taz: Yep ... [00:26:08] Shawn Stevenson: I fell [00:26:10] out of some of my routines. Not all. [00:26:12] Dr. Taz: Which I think is normal. [00:26:13] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. And that, that [00:26:15] was so transformative for me when I added some things back in. But, and they even looked [00:26:20] different, you know, which I'll talk about in a second. So my morning routine I've been doing pretty much for over [00:26:25] 20 years. Uh, first thing I do when I get up in the morning is I drink maybe [00:26:30] 25 to 30 liters of water. I've been doing that for o- again, over two [00:26:35] decades, and it's very intentional. And many of my colleagues have now kinda [00:26:40] championed that message. Mm-hmm. I call it an inner bath. [00:26:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:26:42] Shawn Stevenson: And- Ooh, [00:26:43] Dr. Taz: I like that, the inner bath. [00:26:44] Shawn Stevenson: [00:26:45] Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's just like we take a bath or a shower for our, our outer- [00:26:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:26:49] Shawn Stevenson: self. Isn't the [00:26:50] inside more important? [00:26:50] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:26:51] Shawn Stevenson: And so when we wake up in the morning, this is a time we are, [00:26:55] um, going the longest without hydration, and our bodies are [00:27:00] doing literally billions of processes. Billions [00:27:05] of metabolic processes are happening with our trillions of cells and helping to repair [00:27:10] us and make us better, and there's a lot of metabolic waste that's accumulated. And [00:27:15] so also you'll notice, like, your urine is more concentrated- Mm-hmm ... when you wake up in the morning. Mm-hmm. And so how about I help my [00:27:20] body along? And one of those things is our brains, right? The glymphatic system is 10 times [00:27:25] more active when we are sleeping, which is the... A big part of it is the immune [00:27:30] system and pruning, regulation of cle- kinda cleaning house [00:27:35] with the brain, making room for more growth. [00:27:36] Dr. Taz: So what's the glymphatic system, for anybody that doesn't know? [00:27:38] Shawn Stevenson: The glymphatic system, the gl- [00:27:40] this is a shout-out to the glial cells- Yep ... that help to run it, but the lymphatic system [00:27:45] is the rest of the body, right? And so this is kind of the extracellular waste management system. And [00:27:50] so this also has a lot to do with our immune cells as well. And the, th- there's a blood-brain [00:27:55] barrier. Your brain has its own kind of dedicated cleaning system, pruning [00:28:00] system, and regulatory system when it comes to the immune, immune system, and that's run [00:28:05] by the glial cells. So it's the glymphatic system. And so basically, one of the things that we [00:28:10] see is it, it's kind of making more room. If... And that's a, it's [00:28:15] a rudimentary- [00:28:15] Dr. Taz: Almost like a detox. Like a- [00:28:16] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. It's- ... [00:28:16] Dr. Taz: like [00:28:16] Shawn Stevenson: a [00:28:17] Dr. Taz: detox or a reboot or a [00:28:20] computer resetting or something like that. [00:28:21] Shawn Stevenson: It's a rudimentary way to put it. [00:28:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:28:23] Shawn Stevenson: But our brains are [00:28:25] kind of, with the glymphatic system being 10 times more active while we're sleeping, making pathways and room [00:28:30] for toxins to get, metabolic waste to get out of the brain. And [00:28:35] so again, all this stuff needs to come out of your system. And drinking some water is [00:28:40] gonna help to flush out, you know, all the, all the good stuff, or not good stuff. So that's [00:28:45] number one. Number two, simply drinking water, we get a boost to [00:28:50] our metabolism. And so one of the studies, and I talked about this, uh, you know, a few years back in my [00:28:55] book Eat Smarter. So it was this really fascinating study. They had, uh, test subjects drink [00:29:00] 17 ounces of water with- just within a couple of minutes. Mm-hmm. And they had a [00:29:05] significant increase in their metabolic rate to where they were burning, like, 30 more calories an hour. Now, [00:29:10] that's a short-term thing, but the question is why? It's not because your body's heating the [00:29:15] water up. It didn't matter the water temperature. It's just helping everything to run more efficiently, [00:29:20] right? And so just getting up, getting that metabolic boost, little housecleaning. I drink [00:29:25] water, uh, then I read every day. And, and, uh, this morning I was reading... [00:29:30] What was I reading this morning? I was reading Stress Resets- [00:29:33] Dr. Taz: Okay ... [00:29:34] Shawn Stevenson: for an interview I [00:29:35] have coming up. And my son came downstairs. He was getting ready for basketball practice, and he's [00:29:40] reading, um, the Mamba Mentality book- [00:29:43] Dr. Taz: Ooh, yeah ... [00:29:44] Shawn Stevenson: from Kobe [00:29:45] Bryant. Yeah. And again, these practices I love. I didn't tell him to do it. [00:29:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:29:48] Shawn Stevenson: You know, he just [00:29:50] sort of, started, uh, started mirroring me. And so I'll, I'll read for [00:29:55] 20, 30 minutes. I'm sorry- 15 to 20 minutes [00:29:58] Dr. Taz: Okay ... [00:29:59] Shawn Stevenson: and [00:30:00] then I'll do some meditation. So if he's up around that time, [00:30:05] we'll do, like, a short meditation together, so maybe, like- [00:30:07] Dr. Taz: And you can... And he's engaged in this meditation with you? [00:30:09] Shawn Stevenson: [00:30:10] Yeah, he's been meditating since he was- Oh, [00:30:11] Dr. Taz: amazing ... [00:30:11] Shawn Stevenson: uh, I don't know, maybe two. [00:30:13] Dr. Taz: Okay. Two? [00:30:14] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. [00:30:15] [00:30:15] Dr. Taz: Two? Yeah. [00:30:16] Shawn Stevenson: Yes. Geez. But same as my wife. Yeah. My wife has been meditating since [00:30:20] she was about two. [00:30:20] Dr. Taz: Oh my [00:30:21] Shawn Stevenson: gosh. And was... Shout out to my mom-in-law. She's the one. Ah. [00:30:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Wow. Uh-huh. [00:30:24] Shawn Stevenson: And she's [00:30:25] d- done, taught so many different types of meditations over the years. She changed my life, really. Oh, [00:30:29] Dr. Taz: [00:30:30] wow. Uh-huh. [00:30:30] Shawn Stevenson: So, um, anyway, so I'll... If it's with him, maybe it's like a 10-minute meditation, but [00:30:35] today I went and did a longer meditation myself, did some breathing practices- Mm-hmm ... like some, [00:30:40] uh, the ca- chaotic breathing- Mm-hmm ... and some humming. And what's fascin- even the [00:30:45] humming, nitric oxide boosts. Oh, yeah. [00:30:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:30:46] Shawn Stevenson: Right? Yeah. So again, we're looking at this performance, we're looking at this [00:30:50] connection with testosterone. Who knew? Mm. If you could just hum. Mm. And why are these monks being weird and [00:30:55] humming? Like, it's just- Right. So I, I did that for maybe it was, like, 20, about [00:31:00] 20-minute meditation. [00:31:00] Dr. Taz: So this is, what? An hour into your day now, right? [00:31:03] Shawn Stevenson: Yep. [00:31:03] Dr. Taz: About an hour into the morning. [00:31:04] Shawn Stevenson: Just about [00:31:04] Dr. Taz: an hour. Yep. [00:31:05] Okay. [00:31:05] Shawn Stevenson: And then I'll get outside really quickly, quick 10-minute walk. And so all of that [00:31:10] is about an hour to s- to start my day. And then I start my day- [00:31:14] Dr. Taz: So you do all that in the morning, [00:31:15] including the 10-minute walk? [00:31:16] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. [00:31:16] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:31:16] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. I get outside, really rain or shine. [00:31:20] And it's a lot easier now, real talk to- Yeah ... when I'm in LA- Yeah ... it is, [00:31:23] Dr. Taz: for [00:31:24] Shawn Stevenson: sure. Yeah, I know, right? For [00:31:25] sure. I know, yeah. But even in St. Louis, you know, I would get outside. Yeah. You know, even if I just go outside and just [00:31:30] stand- Yeah ... in the cold- Yeah ... you know, for a little bit, just to get exposure to the environment. [00:31:34] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:31:34] Shawn Stevenson: [00:31:35] You know? And, um, but at that point, my wife is probably up. She, you know, [00:31:40] we have those different- Yeah ... uh, sleep temperaments. Schedules. Yep, okay. You know? [00:31:43] Dr. Taz: And- So [00:31:44] Shawn Stevenson: she [00:31:44] Dr. Taz: sleeps in a little bit [00:31:45] longer, I'm guessing. [00:31:45] Shawn Stevenson: Oh, if it's up to her- Okay. Okay ... she's been doing that since we met. Yeah. We've been together for 22 years. Yeah. [00:31:50] So she's up and she's ready for coffee, so I'll make her coffee [00:31:55] and, um, you know, help with my son's breakfast and, you know, then I get to work. [00:31:58] Dr. Taz: Off to your day. Yeah. So you've [00:32:00] got the, this dedicated morning- [00:32:01] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah ... [00:32:02] Dr. Taz: that you get to almost every morning? [00:32:04] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, [00:32:05] except during that struggle period. Mm. I, I was rarely meditating. The main [00:32:10] thing, the main thing that I needed that helped me the most, I just- You, you left ... like, put on [00:32:15] pause. [00:32:15] Dr. Taz: So, you know, we started talking about grind and, and leverage and [00:32:20] psychology. You had your own health crisis that probably moved you [00:32:25] along your journey. What is the psychology that we need to be thinking [00:32:30] about when it comes to men's health, and how did you learn it through your experience?[00:32:35] [00:32:35] Shawn Stevenson: Uh, another thing we struggled to do was to ask for help [00:32:37] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:32:38] Shawn Stevenson: Or to even [00:32:40] acknowledge when we are not okay. And, you know, for me, [00:32:45] I was a high-level athlete with all these aspirations [00:32:50] of, you know, scholarships and all those things, and my body just started falling apart. And I literally [00:32:55] have game films at home where I'm... You know, I break away, I was a running back- [00:32:59] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:32:59] Shawn Stevenson: and I'm [00:33:00] past the safety, and I just fall. Like, I'm f- five yards from the [00:33:05] end zone and I fall because I tore a hamstring at 14 or- Yeah ... 15 years old. [00:33:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:33:09] Shawn Stevenson: [00:33:10] Like, my body was falling apart. And at track practice when I was 15 years old, I [00:33:15] was doing a 200 meter time trial, and I ran a 4.5 40. Like, that's, like, [00:33:20] solid NFL time, when I was 15. But at track practice, running that 200 [00:33:25] meter time trial, I broke my hip just running. [00:33:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:33:27] Shawn Stevenson: Like, when you think of [00:33:30] someone breaking their hip, that's... You usually think of somebody much, much older. [00:33:32] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:33:33] Shawn Stevenson: And [00:33:35] also probably m- more likely to happen with women. And [00:33:40] so I was definitely... Uh, my hormones were definitely not like they are now [00:33:45] to, to, to put it bluntly. And what I experienced was standard of care, you know? Um, [00:33:50] "Here's some NSAIDs. Stay off the leg." Uh, I- they did give me [00:33:55] ultrasound treatment, which is fascinating- Hmm ... back then. [00:33:56] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:33:57] Shawn Stevenson: Um, and that was that. [00:34:00] You know, "You're a kid. You'll heal." [00:34:01] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:34:01] Shawn Stevenson: But nobody stopped to ask, "How did a kid break his hip- Right ... from simply running?" [00:34:05] [00:34:05] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:34:05] Shawn Stevenson: And about a half a dozen more injuries happened until I [00:34:10] finally get diagnosed with degenerative disc disease. And it basic- [00:34:13] Dr. Taz: Did that take you out of your football [00:34:15] game? [00:34:15] Shawn Stevenson: Oh, man. It was already a wrap for that. Oh. You know, I went to college and I- Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:20] So I, I just... I struggled just to even get out of bed sometimes. I was in [00:34:25] pain. And I didn't... Getting that [00:34:30] diagnosis, especially when you've worked so hard, like, I was the first person in my family to go to college- [00:34:34] Dr. Taz: [00:34:35] Yeah ... [00:34:35] Shawn Stevenson: let alone work to graduate, um, I got per- a permission slip [00:34:40] once I got that diagnosis that I could stop fighting and nobody would blame me. [00:34:44] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:34:44] Shawn Stevenson: You [00:34:45] know? [00:34:45] Dr. Taz: So you were in the grind. [00:34:46] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, I was grinding. I was- Yeah ... it was, like, literally me against the world a [00:34:50] lot of times, the way it felt. [00:34:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:34:51] Shawn Stevenson: And, you know, this gave me... Literally, I got a permission slip. [00:34:55] You know, "You don't have to work." You know, "You... Here's this medication." And [00:35:00] so I just kinda gave up, and this was... I was 20 years old. [00:35:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:35:04] Shawn Stevenson: [00:35:05] And my grandma kept checking on me And she's the one who [00:35:10] really imprinted on me at a young age that, you know, I mattered, that I was gonna do something special [00:35:15] with my life. Um, I was her first grand baby, so you know, it's kinda [00:35:20] special relationship. Yeah. [00:35:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:22] Shawn Stevenson: And she was calling and checking on me, [00:35:25] and it was annoying. Yeah. It was like, "I'm fine, Grandma." Yeah. Like, uh, what do you, like- [00:35:29] Dr. Taz: What do you want? [00:35:30] Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:31] Shawn Stevenson: But she knew that I wasn't okay. [00:35:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:35:33] Shawn Stevenson: But just those touch points eventually got through. [00:35:35] Made [00:35:35] Dr. Taz: a difference. [00:35:36] Shawn Stevenson: And I, and I always encourage people [00:35:40] to, especially when you get a really bad bill of goods, you know, ma- consider getting, [00:35:45] um, uh, another, uh, perspective about it. And so I [00:35:50] did. I sought out some other physicians, and they all gave me the same diagnosis. Like, you have the spine of an [00:35:55] 80-year-old. Mm-hmm. This is incurable. You know, the, the degeneration, my discs [00:36:00] were black, like two of my- Gosh ... lower disc. [00:36:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah. ' [00:36:02] Shawn Stevenson: Cause they were so degenerated. Now, [00:36:05] the light is shining through them. Ah. You know, they're more supple- Yeah ... which is cra- Now we know this stuff [00:36:10] now. Right. But this was back in m- two, around 2000. Yeah. 1999, 2000. [00:36:14] Dr. Taz: [00:36:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. [00:36:15] Shawn Stevenson: And it's so unfortunate because of the nocebo [00:36:20] effect. [00:36:20] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:36:21] Shawn Stevenson: Right? I went into my trusting ph- trusted physician, and he told me [00:36:25] that this was something I couldn't do anything about. [00:36:26] Dr. Taz: And you believed [00:36:26] Shawn Stevenson: it. And I believed him. And I had, like, more of a nuisance of a pain, [00:36:30] occasionally be diff- it'd be difficult to get around, to chronic debilitating pain within a matter of [00:36:35] weeks. And because it was painful just to move, I stopped moving. And [00:36:40] so I sat on my college apartment love seat, [00:36:45] which my wife, when she met me two years later, once I had [00:36:50] reversed the condition w- you know, I was being of service, but she still saw this really shitty couch.[00:36:55] Mm. And I got so heavy, I actually broke through the wood of [00:37:00] the couch, and, like, it cracked, and so there were pillows underneath the c- cushion I [00:37:03] Dr. Taz: can't [00:37:03] Shawn Stevenson: see you like that. Yeah. Gosh. It's [00:37:05] so crazy. Yes. Yeah. And sh- I have her, 'cause I have the proof. Right. I never got a picture of this- [00:37:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:37:09] Shawn Stevenson: disgusting [00:37:10] couch. Yeah. I don't even know... She had no business messing with me- Right ... to be honest. But, um, you know, [00:37:15] I, I, I didn't... I started to not even recognize myself- [00:37:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [00:37:19] Shawn Stevenson: as well. [00:37:19] Dr. Taz: [00:37:20] Yeah. [00:37:20] Shawn Stevenson: And that combination of giving up, of not [00:37:25] accepting help, and of [00:37:30] relenting to, you know, not do anything was just, like, the killer combination for me. [00:37:34] Dr. Taz: [00:37:35] Mm. [00:37:35] Shawn Stevenson: And so after seeing the final physician that I went to see, and he, again, [00:37:40] well, really huge heart, but he told me there's nothing I could do. I went home. Uh, [00:37:45] he gave me another... Every time I leave, I'd get another prescription. Celebrex. Vioxx [00:37:50] was hot at the time, by the way, which ended up killing people. [00:37:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:37:53] Shawn Stevenson: I was just a prescription pad away [00:37:55] from that, but Celebrex, and then I end up getting restless leg syndrome from the Celebrex. Oh my [00:37:58] Dr. Taz: gosh. [00:37:59] Shawn Stevenson: And [00:38:00] then I took over-the-counter Tylenol PM with that, and it's just, like, this cocktail. [00:38:05] Like, I just kept adding another drug, but I was not getting better. And [00:38:10] I was sitting on the side of my bed looking at this pill bottle, and, uh, just to [00:38:15] be honest, like, I, I got pissed. Like, I don't know if that's the [00:38:20] right word, but just, like, I was sad, but also I was angry. [00:38:23] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:38:23] Shawn Stevenson: Because I [00:38:25] imagined the doctor who wrote me this, like, he's at home, like, with his kids, and they're sitting [00:38:30] around this... I just had this vision of, like, a movie scene. Like, "Pass the potatoes," and, like, they're [00:38:35] having this great... And I'm by myself in pain. [00:38:37] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:38:38] Shawn Stevenson: And he wasn't thinking [00:38:40] about me, and I was here in this suffering by myself. And I thought about my grandmother [00:38:45] and all of the hope [00:38:50] and the love that she instilled in me to do something great with my life and not given up. And [00:38:55] so I decided in that moment No matter what, I'm going to do [00:39:00] something to feel better. And it s- it was something so small- Yeah ... because the whole time I'd just been [00:39:05] like, "Why me? Why won't anybody help me? Why is this happening to [00:39:10] me?" And I asked for the first time, "What can I do to feel better?" I had [00:39:15] not asked that question in two years. And it's a process called [00:39:20] instinctive elaboration in the brain, like your brain will find answers to the things that you ask. [00:39:24] Dr. Taz: [00:39:25] Mm. [00:39:25] Shawn Stevenson: And so I put a plan together. I just, the little rudimentary thing on [00:39:30] paper. I was going to lose weight. You know, I was gonna like start a diet, [00:39:35] which at the time was SlimFast, which was crazy. Oh my [00:39:36] Dr. Taz: God. [00:39:37] Shawn Stevenson: Yes. Oh, God. I didn't know shit. [00:39:40] And I was gonna go to the gym tomorrow- Yeah ... even though I was in pain. Yeah. I was just gonna go and just ride the [00:39:45] bike. [00:39:45] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:39:45] Shawn Stevenson: The, the, uh, recumbent bike. [00:39:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:39:47] Shawn Stevenson: And those were my first two [00:39:50] steps, because those are the things I had kind of exposure to. [00:39:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:39:53] Shawn Stevenson: And so I got up the [00:39:55] next day, and I felt good. Just getting up in the morning for the first time in years. [00:39:59] Dr. Taz: It's a [00:40:00] mindset shift. [00:40:00] Shawn Stevenson: It's a mindset shift. Like, I felt hope. I felt this energy. [00:40:04] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:40:04] Shawn Stevenson: I [00:40:05] went to the gym. It was not easy. It was difficult walking around the sciatic pain. My, like my leg would not [00:40:10] extend properly. And so I just got on the bike, which was difficult. I just did [00:40:15] maybe, you know, 15... I'm sorry, like 5, 10 minutes on the bike. Walked around the [00:40:20] tr- it was an indoors tiny track a little bit- Yeah ... and then took my ass home [00:40:25] and, uh, started my SlimFast diet. Mm-hmm. A shake for breakfast, one for lunch- Yeah, I remember ... and a sensible dinner. [00:40:29] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:40:29] Shawn Stevenson: [00:40:30] Trash. It was so gross. And, um, and, and I started feeling better [00:40:35] each day. Thankfully, the SlimFast thing- Went away [00:40:39] Dr. Taz: stopped. [00:40:40] Okay. [00:40:40] Shawn Stevenson: Because I had a friend. I had somebody who reach, was [00:40:45] reaching out to me this whole time that I was just like, you know, like, you know, just kind of, um, turning [00:40:50] down to connect. [00:40:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:40:51] Shawn Stevenson: And they were in chiropractic school. And so [00:40:55] she took me... We were going somewhere, but she stopped at Wild Oats, which has since been bought by Whole Foods. It's kind of like [00:41:00] more of like a mom and pop vibe. [00:41:01] Dr. Taz: Yeah, yeah. [00:41:02] Shawn Stevenson: And I went into the store and I'm just like, "What [00:41:05] the... What is all this stuff?" You know? They had grass. They were [00:41:10] making wheat grass and all this stuff. Yeah. I'm just like, "This is so weird." But I went over to the books and there was like [00:41:15] this, um, it's called The Nutrition Prescription. [00:41:17] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:41:17] Shawn Stevenson: Like, and it had all these s- these [00:41:20] peer-reviewed references, like these studies. And I'm just like, "This has studies?" Like, and I went and looked at my [00:41:25] condition, the degenerative disc disease, and there was a study on [00:41:30] omega-3 deficiency- [00:41:30] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:41:31] Shawn Stevenson: and, uh, degeneration of the, of the, of the intervertebral [00:41:35] disc, but also, um, hip fractures. And this had both had happened to [00:41:40] me. [00:41:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:41:40] Shawn Stevenson: And I was like, "Ome- where do I get omega-3s?" So of course, I bought a supplement. [00:41:44] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:41:45] [00:41:45] Shawn Stevenson: But this just led, each step led me to more and more, and then eventually that got expensive on my [00:41:50] college budget, so I started to just seek out those foods that had all these key nutrients that my body [00:41:55] needed to heal itself. So, uh, just to put a bow on the story, I removed the [00:42:00] cause, which was I was made of straight garbage- [00:42:03] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [00:42:03] Shawn Stevenson: to be honest. Like, I ate [00:42:05] ultra-processed food or fast food almost... I mean, pretty much every [00:42:10] meal. [00:42:10] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:42:11] Shawn Stevenson: I, I know it sounds crazy, but it's- [00:42:12] Dr. Taz: No, not for that time. Yeah. I think we were all kind of [00:42:15] in that, you know? [00:42:16] Shawn Stevenson: And this is every day, and I... This is the conditions I grew up in, uh, living in [00:42:20] poverty in the inner city. And so my body was just deficient in [00:42:25] everything. And so it did the best it could to get me to that point. And so once I provided [00:42:30] my body with these raw materials to actually do the processes, I got better so [00:42:35] fast. Um, and then movement. Movement is medicine, truly. Like, your [00:42:40] body has to have a reason. The worst thing we could do is to do nothing. [00:42:43] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:42:44] Shawn Stevenson: You know, especially this [00:42:45] is where physical therapy is at the highest levels now. It's just like as soon as we can [00:42:50] get mobile, even with an ACL tear or, you know, [00:42:55] um, uh, you know, a hip fracture, whatever the case might be, we need to start to try to get [00:43:00] load. We need to start to try to get some movement and circulation to the area. And so [00:43:05] this doesn't mean if you break your leg to start, you know- Right ... running or whatever the case might be. Right, right. Or trying to [00:43:10] deadlift. We can have our acute thing, but as soon as we can, we need to start moving. And, [00:43:15] um, also exercise is very similar to the word [00:43:20] ex- exorcise, like to get rid of something. And so this [00:43:25] is really arguably the primary function of exercise, [00:43:30] just from this kind of biological standpoint, is the elimination of metabolic waste. [00:43:34] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:43:35] [00:43:35] Shawn Stevenson: And also assimilation of nutrients. When you're actually using your muscles and your [00:43:40] cells, they're actually creating this condition to where they're absorbing more nutrition, and I came [00:43:45] across some studies on that too. But the biggest game changer, little did I know, [00:43:50] was my sleep. [00:43:51] Dr. Taz: Sleep? [00:43:52] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. I was struggling. [00:43:54] Dr. Taz: Were you not sleeping [00:43:55] prior? [00:43:55] Shawn Stevenson: Oh, man . It was the biggest struggle for me. I mean, leading up to this [00:44:00] condition, it was sporadic and crazy. Yeah. And this is some advice I wanna give to young men- Yeah ... as well. [00:44:04] Dr. Taz: [00:44:05] Yeah. [00:44:06] Shawn Stevenson: You know, we now, and recently this study just came [00:44:10] out as well, looking at the relationship between sleep and sleep [00:44:15] deprivation and our telomeres. [00:44:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:44:16] Shawn Stevenson: Right? And so these are kind of one of the glorified markers for our [00:44:20] lifespan. And, you know, I know the people involved in that research, uh, [00:44:25] Dr., um, Elizabeth Blackburn- [00:44:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:44:28] Shawn Stevenson: and Elissa Epel. [00:44:30] And so the study concluded that, yeah, you can get away with it when you're [00:44:35] younger, like keeping these crazy hours, staying up late, doing all this stuff, and I've, [00:44:40] I, I did the things. But you're bur- burning through your telomeres. You're, you're [00:44:45] sh- you're increasing the speed at which you reach the stage where you can't get away with it anymore. [00:44:50] You're just wasting this... You're burning away that wick. And so [00:44:55] what the researchers found was that conclusively sleep deprivation and a inconsistent [00:45:00] sleep schedule shortens your telomeres faster. [00:45:02] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:03] Shawn Stevenson: And I was not sleeping [00:45:05] because I was in pain. The pain was waking me up at night if I even changed positions. And so that's [00:45:10] why I was trying to basically drug myself. [00:45:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:45:12] Shawn Stevenson: So I'm... And that's pseudo sleep, [00:45:15] right? [00:45:15] Dr. Taz: When you're using pain medications and those type of things. [00:45:17] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. [00:45:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:45:18] Shawn Stevenson: And so it took hours [00:45:20] once I got up in the morning just to feel like I'm awake. [00:45:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:45:22] Shawn Stevenson: Right? And so [00:45:25] doing these great things for myself during the day helped me to sleep better at night. And if you're not sleeping, you're not [00:45:30] healing. [00:45:30] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:45:30] Shawn Stevenson: So once I started sleeping well, I got better so [00:45:35] fast. And it was about six weeks after that moment of declaration [00:45:40] that the pain was completely gone that I'd been in fear of for two years. And this is not, [00:45:45] results not typical necessarily. [00:45:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:45:47] Shawn Stevenson: But... And I'd lost, [00:45:50] you know, close to 20 pounds as well, which was again, not typical. I'm, I, I tend to be [00:45:55] thinner, and I had accumulated all this weight. It just kind of flew off me once I was being active again. And keep in [00:46:00] mind, I was also 22. And The, [00:46:05] the sleep changed, but also my mindset changed. I had no idea that all these things would [00:46:10] make me feel like I need to be, be a better person, you know? Because it [00:46:15] wasn't in alignment, the way that I was living with the person that I wanted to be. [00:46:20] And so yeah, just kinda all this stuff happened at one time, [00:46:25] and I was still in fear though. [00:46:27] Dr. Taz: Fear? Why were you still in fear?[00:46:30] [00:46:30] Shawn Stevenson: Because that pain had been with me, haunting me for so long. Mm. So I was, like, [00:46:35] looking for it to come back. [00:46:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:36] Shawn Stevenson: You know? [00:46:36] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:37] Shawn Stevenson: And so it took a while to- The [00:46:38] Dr. Taz: TSD almost. [00:46:39] Shawn Stevenson: Yes. Yeah. [00:46:40] Exactly. [00:46:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:40] Shawn Stevenson: No one's ever said it before. That's what it is. I just got the chills. That's exactly what it was like. [00:46:43] Dr. Taz: That's what that is, yeah.[00:46:45] [00:46:45] Shawn Stevenson: And it took a while for me to, like, let go and to just be free in my body again. [00:46:50] And people saw, and this was the thing, I was in [00:46:55] college at the time. [00:46:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:46:56] Shawn Stevenson: And people saw me at my university, like walking around [00:47:00] campus, and I remember, this was crazy, my friend from high school, his [00:47:05] little sister, she went to high school with me too, but I didn't... She was, like, in a grade lower. [00:47:10] She came up to me on campus. She was like, and she was, like, looking me up and down like, "What did you do?" And [00:47:15] I was like, "Uh, what do you mean?" And she was like, "You look so good." [00:47:20] And I was like, "I've just been doing this, this and that," whatever. She was like, "Can you help me?" [00:47:25] And I was like, "Cool," like, "For sure." Like, "Can you, you know, just come to the gym on Saturday," da, da, da. [00:47:30] And then she said, "How much should I pay you?" And, like, time [00:47:35] froze. I was like, wait a minute. [00:47:36] Dr. Taz: I can make some money doing this. [00:47:37] Shawn Stevenson: People would pay me to do something I would do [00:47:40] anyways? [00:47:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:47:41] Shawn Stevenson: So that was kind of the start, but then also one of my professors that, [00:47:45] maybe it was, like, the next week, stopped me. He, he said, "Sean, can I see you?" And we were walking out of class. [00:47:50] He was like, you know, um, I, I thought I did something wrong. Right, right. He was like, "So what's going on with [00:47:55] you?" You know, same kind of conversation. He's like, "Well, you look so good. What did you do?" And I ... [00:48:00] He, he became my client as well. Mm. You know? So and I went and got my certification as a personal trainer, [00:48:05] and, um, I just started to be of service, and I wanted to help all these people- Yeah ... who'd been [00:48:10] told that they can't, that it's not possible for them, because I had a firsthand [00:48:15] visceral experience of overcoming what was deemed to be impossible. [00:48:19] Dr. Taz: Wow. [00:48:19] Shawn Stevenson: You [00:48:20] know? And so, yeah. What [00:48:20] Dr. Taz: a story. Well, you know, there's so much wrapped in [00:48:25] that story of healing and, and coming back to yourself and moving through [00:48:30] pain and moving through frustration, which some people give into, right? And that [00:48:35] becomes the story for them, right? And that then determines their outcomes as they move [00:48:40] forward. But I keep thinking about psychology and how [00:48:45] everything shifted for you the moment you decided something wanted to change. Yes. And you [00:48:50] used a term that I, I lost about how the brain reorganizes itself. [00:48:54] Shawn Stevenson: Instinctive [00:48:55] elaboration. [00:48:55] Dr. Taz: There you go. Instinct- W- Can you help us with that? Because... And then you also [00:49:00] talked about the trauma, I'm calling it PTSD, of, okay, this thing is gonna come back. So, so [00:49:05] many people live in that space. Yeah. Right? Either in the space that this is the [00:49:10] story and I can't move out of it, right? Or in the space of, you [00:49:15] know, fear and trauma that, oh my God, I went through something terrible. What if it happens again? That could [00:49:20] be financial insecurity. It could be physical insecurity. It could be emotional inse- whatever, you know, [00:49:25] whatever insecurity w- you wanna label. How do we shift [00:49:30] psychology? And again, we're focusing on men, and is there a particular challenge that men have in this [00:49:35] versus women? But I would open it up generally. [00:49:37] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. [00:49:37] Dr. Taz: How do you shift psychology? [00:49:39] Shawn Stevenson: [00:49:40] Yeah. We could just stay with this one tool, with this instinctive elaboration. There are many [00:49:45] tools. There are many paths to the goal. What we tend to do if we're seeking is we start to [00:49:50] accumulate a bunch of different ways- [00:49:51] Dr. Taz: Right ... [00:49:51] Shawn Stevenson: instead of really digging in and mastering one. [00:49:55] And the reason that I'm gonna double down on this one, because already this tab [00:50:00] is open, but also this has been seen for centuries, the power of questions. [00:50:05] Ask and ye shall receive. Ask. Ask. And so- [00:50:10] What the researchers indicated, and I'm so grateful [00:50:15] for the people that are in my life and the experts that I have access to, but it just helped to affirm [00:50:20] like, oh, I did that on accident. [00:50:21] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:50:22] Shawn Stevenson: And so what we all tend to have is something called a [00:50:25] dominant question. A question- This [00:50:26] Dr. Taz: dominant question. [00:50:27] Shawn Stevenson: Okay ... a question that we're asking [00:50:30] ourselves either consciously or o- oftentimes unconsciously that's driving our lives and our [00:50:35] decisions and our perspective, right? So this could be, you know, um, [00:50:40] how can I get people to like me? Or how can I feel [00:50:45] better? Or for me, it was like, why me? [00:50:47] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:50:48] Shawn Stevenson: Why is this happening to me? Why [00:50:50] do, why do bad things always happen, right? Why do bad things happen to good people? [00:50:55] Like, whatever that question is, think about the question you're chronically [00:51:00] asking yourself. It might be, "What's next?" But in a negative way. But it might be, "What's [00:51:05] next?" in a positive way, because it's the framing. Even that question, why me, [00:51:10] had I had more of an empowered mindset, the person I am today, it could have been [00:51:15] because, because at the time, why me meant, why are these bad things happening to me? [00:51:20] What did I do? Now it can be, "Why me?" Because I am strong enough. [00:51:24] Dr. Taz: [00:51:25] Mm. [00:51:25] Shawn Stevenson: I am capable enough. I am able to overcome this [00:51:30] obstacle and, and to be able to be of service to other people who are going through something similar. That's why [00:51:35] me, because I can. [00:51:36] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:51:37] Shawn Stevenson: And so dialing in the dominant question, [00:51:40] and, um, I'm thinking about an experience [00:51:45] um, that my friend Jim Kwik shared with me. Do you know Jim by chance? He's a- I know the [00:51:49] Dr. Taz: name, yeah ... [00:51:49] Shawn Stevenson: [00:51:50] accelerated learning expert. [00:51:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah, yeah. [00:51:51] Shawn Stevenson: But he's worked with all of these like, you know, incredible [00:51:55] people. Just the, you name it, he's done it. Um, but he was [00:52:00] invited to a, a film, a movie shoot, which he's done a lot. Like, he hung out with Stan Lee a [00:52:05] lot- Mm-hmm ... and was like on a private plane with all the X-Men actors. Mm-hmm. And just like, "How the hell you get there, [00:52:10] Jim?" [00:52:10] Dr. Taz: I know, right? [00:52:11] Shawn Stevenson: So, but he shared with me they were filming Suicide Squad- [00:52:13] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm [00:52:14] Shawn Stevenson: [00:52:15] in Canada, and Will Smith was one of the, the le- was really the, the leading [00:52:20] actor in that movie. And this is back before all the controversy. Yes. Okay? Caveat. Yes. All right? [00:52:24] Dr. Taz: Yes, yes. [00:52:25] Still love Will. But [00:52:25] Shawn Stevenson: he saw something very special because Will was [00:52:30] creating magic on the set. Not, he wasn't trying to. He asked Will, he had this [00:52:35] conversation about the dominant question. And for, for, for [00:52:40] Jim, he assumed, based on his conversation with, with Will, and he asked him, "It seems like this question you're [00:52:45] asking is how can I make this moment magical?" And Will said, "No, actually, if [00:52:50] I think about what my psychology is, is I'm asking how can I make this moment more [00:52:55] magical?" [00:52:55] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:52:56] Shawn Stevenson: I already have an underlying assumption that it's magical. How can I [00:53:00] make this more magical? And he was seeing him, like, making hot cocoa, bringing it to the staff, and it was [00:53:05] snowing and all this stuff, and it's just like there's this beautiful vibe that was created. And so [00:53:10] we get to choose what that question is. And this instinctive elaboration [00:53:15] process, our, our, our minds, our brains are constantly [00:53:20] looking for data to affirm the question that we're asking. Hmm. Because it's, it's the lens through which we're seeing life. [00:53:25] And so we will start to accumulate data, and this is how I landed myself at that health food store. [00:53:30] I drove past that place thousands of times, [00:53:35] and I'm not ex- literally back and forth, back and forth- Yeah ... 'cause it's right off the highway. Yeah. I didn't know it existed. [00:53:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:53:40] [00:53:40] Shawn Stevenson: And it wasn't until I asked this question, "How can I feel better?" this thing [00:53:45] happened, then this thing happened, and then boom, I'm here, right? And so [00:53:50] choosing what you want your question to be, right? And this is gonna be [00:53:55] based on your life, your goals, but just choose and program yourself to ask this dominant [00:54:00] question. You know, to retrain your dominant question. Take back control of that part of your mind. [00:54:04] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:54:05] [00:54:05] Shawn Stevenson: Don't just outsource it to circumstance. And so again, you could borrow it [00:54:10] from what Will said, you can borrow it from me. You know, uh, what can I do to feel better? [00:54:15] Eventually the question became, what can I do to be the healthiest person in the world, you know? I had the audacity to ask [00:54:20] questions like that. [00:54:20] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:54:21] Shawn Stevenson: And like based on my numbers, which is crazy, like again- Your numbers are [00:54:24] Dr. Taz: [00:54:25] amazing ... [00:54:25] Shawn Stevenson: that is bonkers. It's more than twice the level of somebody my age. And again, [00:54:30] like I've never, I'm not, I've d- never done any W- WWF stuff- Yeah, yeah ... and taking [00:54:35] stuff- Yeah and TRT and none of that stuff. Yeah. And not to, not to negate the value of those things. Right. But [00:54:40] this is just by my lifestyle practices and I, I believe that there's so much that we can [00:54:45] do and stack conditions in those things, but because of our culture, we're looking for this quick [00:54:50] fix, and that's what we gotta move away from because there isn't a magic [00:54:55] product really. There isn't. There's a magic process. And [00:55:00] I wanna share one more thing. Yeah. This is just a- [00:55:01] Dr. Taz: No, I'd [00:55:02] Shawn Stevenson: love this ... to circle back for the- Yeah ... for the young men and [00:55:05] for, for, for fellas my age and beyond as well, and how important this is. When I mentioned how valuable the [00:55:10] sleep was, so this was published in JAMA, the Journal of the American Medical Association. This was around [00:55:15] 2011. They did this incredible study. They took college-aged young [00:55:20] men, all right? So in their early, mid-20s, [00:55:25] and they sleep deprived them. [00:55:27] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:55:27] Shawn Stevenson: For just one week, [00:55:30] just one week, and their testosterone levels dropped about 15%. [00:55:34] Dr. Taz: [00:55:35] Wow. [00:55:36] Shawn Stevenson: That's equivalent to suddenly being 10 to 15 years [00:55:40] older- [00:55:40] Dr. Taz: Hmm [00:55:40] Shawn Stevenson: in just one week. Now, the good news again, get back on a normal... [00:55:45] And w- it went from, um, you know, the control of being like around eight hours of sleep, I think it might have been [00:55:50] eight and a half, but they allowed them to get five hours of sleep. One week, [00:55:55] their testosterone levels plummeted. Testosterone is sleep [00:56:00] dependent. It might be the most sleep, sleep dependent hormone that we track. [00:56:05] Fat loss is sleep dependent. Our immune system is sleep dependent. Like, there isn't a part [00:56:10] of our health that's not deeply connected to the quality of our sleep. And so again, we can get away [00:56:15] with when we're younger, whatever, but especially when you get older and you [00:56:20] don't get a good night's sleep, like, you feel like, you know, e- so- [00:56:25] what happened to me? Yeah. Like, was I attacked in my sleep? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's, it's terrible. And so it's, like, [00:56:30] really stacking conditions for yourself, the earlier the better, and instilling this in our kids. [00:56:35] You know, again, even with my son who got up and was reading with me, he really prioritizes his sleep. [00:56:40] I know he's gonna go out, he's gonna have fun, he's gonna do this stuff- Right, right and the college things and this and that. [00:56:43] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:56:44] Shawn Stevenson: But having that [00:56:45] foundation and knowing the science, but most importantly, seeing the [00:56:50] results in your life. [00:56:50] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:56:51] Shawn Stevenson: I've simply... I, I don't demand as far as, like, [00:56:55] telling what to do. I instruct, I coach, [00:57:00] and I point out when you do the opposite thing. Like, okay, you know, like he, he might've [00:57:05] went to a, a birthday party a couple years ago, right? And he ate a bunch of whatever, [00:57:10] you know, some, I don't know what kids are eating, jelly beans and- Yeah ... uh, gumdrops and- All the [00:57:15] junk. All the junk. Yeah ... you know, pizza, whatever. [00:57:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:57:17] Shawn Stevenson: And, and he doesn't feel good [00:57:20] afterwards, and I'm just like, you know, just like, "Really focus on eating some good stuff and, [00:57:25] you know, you're gonna feel better." [00:57:25] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:57:26] Shawn Stevenson: And just being able to just pay attention, like, "Oh, when I do all that stuff, I don't feel the best." [00:57:29] Dr. Taz: [00:57:30] They're [00:57:30] Shawn Stevenson: not me. Yeah. But it's okay. That's another thing. [00:57:35] Especially in this domain. I, [00:57:40] I have friends and colleagues who are very militant, and I, I think it's a [00:57:45] phase And you're gonna reach some people like that. It's gonna impact them. But [00:57:50] for most people, that's not gonna work. It's not sustainable. [00:57:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:57:54] Shawn Stevenson: It's really [00:57:55] about having a revelation within themselves, and that's often through creating conditions of love and [00:58:00] understanding, you know? And so modeling the behavior, [00:58:05] um, understanding that people make choices and, and, and mistakes and [00:58:10] things that you might not ne- necessarily agree with, and that's okay. [00:58:15] So not making anything... Not anything, but when it comes to this health [00:58:20] conversation, not making anything- [00:58:22] Dr. Taz: Good or bad ... [00:58:22] Shawn Stevenson: good or bad. [00:58:23] Dr. Taz: Yeah, the extremes. Yeah. [00:58:24] Shawn Stevenson: Taking the [00:58:25] morality out of- Yeah, yeah ... especially food. [00:58:26] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:58:27] Shawn Stevenson: Like, it's- Yeah ... super dangerous. [00:58:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:58:29] Shawn Stevenson: And also, [00:58:30] there's no one-size-fits-all diet. I've done all of, all the [00:58:35] diets. I've done all of the... Even, like, super ethnic, [00:58:40] like, you know, my, my wife's from Kenya. [00:58:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:58:42] Shawn Stevenson: You know? Yeah. Like, I've done the [00:58:45] paleo, the raw vegan, the- [00:58:46] Dr. Taz: The [00:58:47] Shawn Stevenson: keto ... all of it. [00:58:48] Dr. Taz: All [00:58:48] Shawn Stevenson: of it, yeah. Okay. I've done it to [00:58:50] a level you have no... I've fasted for 21 days. Oh [00:58:52] Dr. Taz: my God. [00:58:53] Shawn Stevenson: I've done all the things. [00:58:55] Everything is a tool. [00:58:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:58:58] Shawn Stevenson: The greatest thing that we can [00:59:00] rely on for longevity, for health, for [00:59:05] sustainability with this, is just eating real food. [00:59:08] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:59:09] Shawn Stevenson: Just eat [00:59:10] real food Don't imprison yourself with a diet [00:59:15] framework if it's h- especially if it's hurting you. What tends to happen is we do a diet and it [00:59:20] s- does s- we get some results from it, but then when the results stop or maybe we stop and [00:59:25] we do the thing again and we're just like, "I just didn't do it right"- [00:59:28] Dr. Taz: It didn't work [00:59:28] Shawn Stevenson: "I need to do it harder." [00:59:29] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:59:30] [00:59:30] Shawn Stevenson: And, you know, you start, again, creating this, um, learned helplessness. [00:59:35] And so utilizing diet frameworks and understanding [00:59:40] it's just a framework. It doesn't have to be religiosity. [00:59:43] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:59:44] Shawn Stevenson: You know? Um, [00:59:45] and I know, again, all... I know the top raw vegan diet- Yeah ... [00:59:50] um, physician, you know, pioneering that message and then the [00:59:55] carnivore. Yeah. You know? Like, I know... And everybody means well. [00:59:57] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:59:57] Shawn Stevenson: They all mean well, and they've all helped [01:00:00] people. [01:00:00] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:00:01] Shawn Stevenson: But they don't talk about how many people weren't helped. [01:00:03] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:00:04] Shawn Stevenson: You know? And [01:00:05] it's okay. It's okay. So having all these tools is super valuable. [01:00:10] Keto, paleo, um, you know, raw food even, you know? Like, [01:00:15] there's all these great- The [01:00:15] Dr. Taz: raw food movement, yeah. Yeah. [01:00:16] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah. And I did it in Mis- I, I'm from Missouri. [01:00:20] I did three years. Raw? Raw, raw vegan. Three years. [01:00:24] Dr. Taz: What? [01:00:25] [01:00:25] Shawn Stevenson: There's no r- I'm in LA now. I could live like a king here- Yeah ... with raw food. [01:00:28] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:00:29] Shawn Stevenson: But [01:00:30] it was just a lot of... And you dehydrate. [01:00:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:00:32] Shawn Stevenson: You know? If you want s- so basically, if you want [01:00:35] something, if you want something, you gotta start it today- Yeah if you wanna have it in two days, basically. You know, put in [01:00:40] the dehydrator or whatever. [01:00:40] Dr. Taz: But the rules, like, the basic tenets are the basic tenets, [01:00:45] right? Like, move your body. [01:00:46] Shawn Stevenson: Yes. [01:00:47] Dr. Taz: Sleep. [01:00:47] Shawn Stevenson: Yes. [01:00:48] Dr. Taz: Protect your morning. [01:00:50] We probably should add that. Right, yeah. You know. Um, eat real food. [01:00:53] Shawn Stevenson: Eat real food. [01:00:54] Dr. Taz: [01:00:55] Fake meats, fake this, fake that, it's not gonna work out, you know. [01:00:59] Shawn Stevenson: Come [01:01:00] on. [01:01:01] Dr. Taz: There's, going back to psychology, there's a [01:01:05] psychology that draws you to these, like, stringent diets, right? [01:01:10] Mm-hmm. It, it's wound up in the belief that we can biohack or grind our way to [01:01:15] the outcome. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I keep coming back to, I think, the most powerful thing [01:01:20] you've said, you know, and hopefully men are listening and, you know, I have a 17-year-old son, so I [01:01:25] wish he was listening right now and paying attention to some of this. But the most powerful thing you've [01:01:30] said, I think, is the, the mindset, like the questions that you [01:01:35] ask yourself- Yeah ... the stories that you believe, because I think men in particular [01:01:40] write a story handed down generationally or through culture and through community that [01:01:45] this is how it's supposed to be, and if they're not able to do X, Y, or Z, [01:01:50] they carry shame and failure, which then becomes their dominant [01:01:55] question- Yes which then leads down the wrong road, right? And that road looks different for everybody. [01:02:00] So I think, you know, I hope that men are listening and first [01:02:05] experiencing a mindset shift- Yes ... if anything else, you know? [01:02:10] But then they're able to naturally start getting the [01:02:15] tools at their toolbox that they need to move forward, whatever those tools might be, you know? [01:02:20] What would you tell young men and men of all ages who are listening to us today [01:02:25] when they're hearing the words longevity or biohacking or [01:02:30] optimization or performance or peptides or cold plunging and [01:02:35] cryo and sauna and, like, you know, all the things [01:02:40] that you're hearing right now, and they're in a grind mentality- Hmm because that's how they've been [01:02:45] raised- Yeah ... and that's what they believe. That's how they, you know, rose in a career, and that's how they built their family, and [01:02:50] that's why their kids got into the best schools and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How do we [01:02:55] help men with all the noise? [01:03:00] [01:03:00] Shawn Stevenson: You ask, this is like you asked me the meaning of life. Yeah. That is such [01:03:03] Dr. Taz: a- Well, that's why I brought you here. [01:03:05] [01:03:06] Shawn Stevenson: That's such a- Come on, wizard. Alakazam. [01:03:09] Dr. Taz: I know. [01:03:09] Shawn Stevenson: [01:03:10] Um, you know, um, I, I think, first of all, I wanna [01:03:15] say that, um, there are seasons for everything, [01:03:20] and I would direct [01:03:25] people to know, and I know this for certain because I've experienced it and I've seen it with e- everybody, [01:03:30] is that give yourself permission to change. Give yourself permission [01:03:35] to... You know, the thing that is working for you right now, at some point it's not gonna [01:03:40] work, you know? And then let me be clear, this is not for everything, by the way. Right. Like- [01:03:44] Dr. Taz: [01:03:45] Right, right ... [01:03:45] Shawn Stevenson: walking is still probably gonna work, you know? But I mean, just like, you know, there's a certain diet or [01:03:50] certain foods, like you might develop an intolerance or, you know, um, a certain [01:03:55] diet might work, work really well for you. Like a friend of mine, Mark Bell, a former [01:04:00] literally world record holding powerlifter, he squatted I think 1,000 pounds, some, [01:04:05] some stupid amount. But b- to do that he had to be really big. [01:04:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:04:08] Shawn Stevenson: Really massive. [01:04:10] Mm-hmm. Like carry a lot of weight, and, um, he was obese. And now he's just, like, he [01:04:15] just ran the, I think he did the Boston Marathon or something like, but he's like just kinda jacked. He [01:04:20] slimmed down. He lost like 100 pounds, and he's done all the different diets. He did the carnivore thing. [01:04:25] Now he's doing the sugar diet. Now, when I say sugar diet, I mean- I [01:04:29] Dr. Taz: want that [01:04:30] diet. [01:04:30] Shawn Stevenson: He's... I'm just kidding. So with his training, he might have some kinda like dense source [01:04:35] of, of sugar, but just basically for him it was just allowing himself to have [01:04:40] carbohydrates again. [01:04:40] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Okay. [01:04:41] Shawn Stevenson: Right? So whether this is sweet potatoes or rice or fruit, whatever the case might [01:04:45] be, where he had went so hard in the other direction, he found that, oh, when I do this thing, I got [01:04:50] this result. Like, but when he did the other thing, he got the result as well. Yeah. But it just kinda started to... [01:04:55] Maybe it was just stale for him. Maybe it was his life conditions changed. Maybe he, you know, [01:05:00] the w- results weren't working and he just tried something different. When I said this earlier, there are many [01:05:05] paths to the goal. [01:05:05] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:05:06] Shawn Stevenson: Humans have tried to eat everything, you know? And our ancestors did figure out a [01:05:10] lot about stuff that we can, that are sustainable for us. And so give [01:05:15] yourself permission to change. And [01:05:20] I think the most important thing is, and this is, this goes against my [01:05:25] temperament Which is so foolish, is [01:05:30] to really... Ah, I'm sorry. Um, [01:05:35] to really lean into your relationships, you know, really [01:05:40] invest in your relationships. I'm definitely a recovering lone wolf. [01:05:44] Dr. Taz: [01:05:45] Yeah. [01:05:45] Shawn Stevenson: You know? And I still, I like to be in my, in my cave, in my wolf's den by [01:05:50] myself. [01:05:50] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:05:51] Shawn Stevenson: Definitely, but my greatest gift, and I had no [01:05:55] idea, and even doing my show, I was not looking to have relationships- Right ... with people [01:06:00] per se. [01:06:00] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:06:00] Shawn Stevenson: But that's been the greatest blessing- [01:06:01] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [01:06:02] Shawn Stevenson: by far. You know, the people that are in my life, [01:06:05] the access, the resources, the insights. It's still very [01:06:10] difficult, doesn't come second nature for me to share if there's something that I'm struggling with or need help with, [01:06:15] but I'm learning to. And it's just so funny how a problem gets solved- Wow ... when you share. [01:06:20] And it's, for a lot of men, we, we're not very good at that. Mm. And [01:06:25] we were never designed to do stuff by ourselves, like we have, we [01:06:30] evolved in tribes. Now of course there's different positions, there's different people doing different things, but [01:06:35] we have to communicate, we have to connect. And funny enough, one of [01:06:40] the longest running longitudinal studies on human longevity, and I know the director of the [01:06:45] study at Harvard, Dr. Robert Waldinger, he shared with me, he's the fourth director, it's over 80 years this study's been [01:06:50] going on. The number one determinant on how long you're going to live and live healthfully [01:06:55] is the quality of your relationships. Yeah. What he called strong social bonds. [01:06:59] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:06:59] Shawn Stevenson: [01:07:00] And I asked him Why? Like, what, what is it [01:07:05] about? He said, "The research is pointing to stress." Having [01:07:10] healthy relationships is one of the most powerful means of metabolizing stress. [01:07:14] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:07:14] Shawn Stevenson: Because [01:07:15] so often you're just in your own head and just in this tornado, in this blender trying to figure [01:07:20] stuff out. [01:07:20] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:07:21] Shawn Stevenson: And it's not necessarily like venting, which might be a part, but just knowing [01:07:25] that somebody's there for you at the end of the day- Yeah ... that has your back and you can share with, or just to be [01:07:30] there for you. We need that. We need each other. And also, I [01:07:35] asked him, "So does this mean, like, like your, you know, your intimate relationship, your loving [01:07:40] relationship, does this mean, like, you guys don't fight a lot? Like, what is a healthy relationship?" He was like, [01:07:45] "No. Actually, some of the healthiest relationships that they've studied over [01:07:50] decades," he... And this was his words, he said, "They fought like cats and dogs." But [01:07:55] in... He said, "But they had a bedrock of affection." [01:07:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:07:58] Shawn Stevenson: Even when they were getting on each [01:08:00] other's nerves- Yeah ... they still touched each other. [01:08:01] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:08:02] Shawn Stevenson: They still looked into, to each other's eyes. They still saw each other. [01:08:04] Dr. Taz: [01:08:05] Yeah. [01:08:05] Shawn Stevenson: They didn't agree on a lot of things, and they would bicker or whatever the case might be, [01:08:10] but, you know, there isn't this cookie cutter relationship on how stuff is supposed to be.[01:08:15] But this is something where, unfortunately, our society today, we've been [01:08:20] so fractured. [01:08:20] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:08:22] Shawn Stevenson: We oftentimes don't even have our, [01:08:25] um, extended family near us, you know? Like, we [01:08:30] just literally go on a different place on the map, and that's great. That's great we have the ability to do that, [01:08:35] but just thinking about You know, a child leaving and just like they're thrown into [01:08:40] this environment alone, like it's 300 or something, you know? And just like you gotta come back with the [01:08:45] beast on your shoulder. It's a very difficult circumstance to be in. [01:08:50] Not to say that that's wrong, but to have a community built around [01:08:55] ourselves, our families, and studying it. I come from a [01:09:00] very dysfunct- every, I mean, it's pretty much who doesn't? But I grew [01:09:05] up in an environment with a lot of violence, drug abuse. You know, my, my [01:09:10] father, when I said he passed away, he spent almost 15 years in [01:09:15] assisted living. [01:09:15] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [01:09:15] Shawn Stevenson: And still w- was a relatively young man. He's only 19 years older than [01:09:20] me, and it was due to drugs and alcohol. Yeah. He ended up having [01:09:25] epilepsy. It w- you know, I came up during the crack epidemic, and I've lost [01:09:30] many family members. And so I grew up in that [01:09:35] environment, and so I didn't really see what a healthy relationship looks like except with my grandparents, [01:09:40] my grandmother and my grandfather. It's so valuable to have that imprint. [01:09:44] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:09:44] Shawn Stevenson: [01:09:45] Right? Just that example that ... And they were an entity. I've n- I never saw them [01:09:50] fight or argue, which I'm not saying they didn't. They probably did, especially dealing with my mother. [01:09:55] Um, but they were s- they loved each other so much. I saw them close [01:10:00] and him putting his arm around her, and them loving me. [01:10:05] Even though it was for a short amount of time, it stayed with me. [01:10:07] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [01:10:08] Shawn Stevenson: And so be that [01:10:10] model for other people. Yes, make it a study, especially if you're [01:10:15] deficient. How my wife and I have made it, because there was ... We had all the lovey-dovey stuff for sure. [01:10:20] Lovey-dovey. But at a point, if you don't know how to do this stuff, [01:10:25] we ... There's this point where it's just like, "You just get on my fucking nerves." You know what I mean? [01:10:29] Dr. Taz: [01:10:30] Oh, [01:10:30] Shawn Stevenson: yeah. Like, I'm trying to do this thing. [01:10:31] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah. [01:10:32] Shawn Stevenson: Why are you here? You know? [01:10:35] And what we did was we We took a [01:10:40] course together. [01:10:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:10:42] Shawn Stevenson: Um, it was called, and I believe the name was [01:10:45] Lovers For Life. It was like a Tony Robbins course. And it was like this is when they send you CDs in the mail. [01:10:49] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:10:49] Shawn Stevenson: [01:10:50] Right? [01:10:50] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:10:50] Shawn Stevenson: And we went through it. It was videos and stuff, and we went through it together, and little workbooks.[01:10:55] And I learned she doesn't see stuff the way I do. [01:11:00] [01:11:00] Dr. Taz: Shocking. [01:11:01] Shawn Stevenson: That's... I know. [01:11:02] Dr. Taz: Yes. [01:11:02] Shawn Stevenson: That's 'cause, you know, you don't think [01:11:05] about that- Right ... until you think about it. [01:11:06] Dr. Taz: Right. [01:11:07] Shawn Stevenson: It's o- it's more so, especially for guys, just like, "Oh, you [01:11:10] just don't get it." [01:11:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:11:11] Shawn Stevenson: I know, I know you obviously think like I do, you just didn't get it. [01:11:14] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:11:15] [01:11:15] Shawn Stevenson: Right? But he talked about these six human needs, right? Um, a need [01:11:20] for certainty, uncertainty, love, [01:11:25] significance, and then more evolved needs of contribution and growth. [01:11:29] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [01:11:30] Mm-hmm. [01:11:30] Shawn Stevenson: I was really driven by growth- [01:11:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [01:11:33] Shawn Stevenson: and love. [01:11:35] That's where we connected, on the love piece, but she was really driven by certainty. [01:11:39] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:11:40] [01:11:40] Shawn Stevenson: Can you see how growth- [01:11:41] Dr. Taz: Oh, totally ... [01:11:42] Shawn Stevenson: and certainty are gonna conflict? [01:11:43] Dr. Taz: Oh, [01:11:44] Shawn Stevenson: 100%. When I'm like, "Baby, [01:11:45] we need to do this nutrition..." Like, "I wanna teach a class-" Yeah ... and like whatever. I think we have this conversation. Yeah. And then she, in her head, [01:11:50] she's like, "We lost, like, $500 last time on [01:11:55] that seven-course meal you created for everybody." Yeah. "It was a great time, but we lost money doing it." [01:11:59] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:11:59] Shawn Stevenson: [01:12:00] And so, you know, once I understood that and I addressed her certainty needs, she became [01:12:05] the one pushing me- Mm-hmm ... and the growth-oriented person, right? And so, and, [01:12:10] and the things that you surround yourself with will show up in your life again, and again, and again. I just [01:12:15] shared before this show this connection with Tony Robbins. Yeah. And the first time that we [01:12:20] talked, he, he said to me, he thanked me. And I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait." [01:12:25] There was a study that he put into, uh, his most recent book that [01:12:30] he found out from me. It was something that I shared. [01:12:32] Dr. Taz: Ah. [01:12:33] Shawn Stevenson: And it's just like, [01:12:35] I mean, I, I can't... It's unbelievable. [01:12:36] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [01:12:37] Shawn Stevenson: It's unbelievable. So surround yourself, immerse yourself in those [01:12:40] things that you want to become your life, to become a reflection of, [01:12:45] and make it a study. You know, especially in the context of relationships. [01:12:50] If you don't know how to do this, it is so important. It's the number one determiner of how long you're gonna live. Your [01:12:55] success, happiness, it's gonna be with and through other people. [01:12:58] Dr. Taz: I think so many [01:13:00] men in particular don't realize that, that the lone wolf, [01:13:05] beast on the back, I got this, is ... It really doesn't work for [01:13:10] their health. And you've been able to draw it all the way back down to testosterone [01:13:15] levels. You got it that granular, so that's awesome. Well, [01:13:20] this has been so enlightening. I knew, I knew you had done a lot, but I didn't really know the [01:13:25] details of your story, so thank you for sharing all that today, and I hope it resonates with men of all ages. With [01:13:30] our young boys that are headed out into the world, and to men, you know, who might [01:13:35] really just not know what their next step might be. Now, one of the [01:13:40] things I do on this show that I would love... I think you've sort of answered it, but I'm still gonna ask the question anyways. [01:13:45] Uh, w- h- what and how, or what makes you whole? [01:13:50] [01:13:52] Shawn Stevenson: My family [01:13:52] Dr. Taz: Family [01:13:53] Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, for sure Yeah, yeah My, [01:13:55] my, my wife, my best friend, um, my kids, my [01:14:00] mom-in-law. Yeah, it's my, it's my family. [01:14:03] Dr. Taz: Amazing. And [01:14:05] for everyone out there listening, please share this episode with the men that you love. I think it's really [01:14:10] important that we spread this word and we really get this message out there, because from [01:14:15] a diagnostic standpoint as a physician, I definitely see the numbers declining. I [01:14:20] see high cortisol, I see low testosterone, 20-year-olds. We're not even talking about middle age. [01:14:25] And those guys then have a whole life ahead of them of all the things that they're [01:14:30] supposed to do. So we really wanna change that story for them. So thank you so much for [01:14:35] taking time out today to join me. What is the best way for people to connect with you? [01:14:39] Shawn Stevenson: [01:14:40] Where they're listening, watching this show, you can find my show as well. It's called The Model Health Show. [01:14:45] [01:14:45] Dr. Taz: Amazing [01:14:45] Shawn Stevenson: show. And, um, yeah, we do masterclasses on every subject matter you [01:14:50] can imagine, and we have on the ver- the, the leading experts in their, in their [01:14:55] respective fields, the best of the best. You're one of them. [01:14:56] Dr. Taz: Oh, thank you. [01:14:57] Shawn Stevenson: And, um, I think that people would absolutely [01:15:00] just fall in love. What tends to happen... This happens every day, we get these messages. People [01:15:05] go back and listen from episode one. [01:15:06] Dr. Taz: Wow. [01:15:07] Shawn Stevenson: And I just... We just released episode 1,000- 1,000 ... which is [01:15:10] crazy. And so, you know, just being on... And, like, we can see the download numbers too. Yeah Like, people are going from number [01:15:15] one all the way up, and that's an incredible resource. It's free. [01:15:20] All you have to do is push play. Right. And it's such a blessing because we didn't have access to this- [01:15:24] Dr. Taz: [01:15:25] No ... [01:15:25] Shawn Stevenson: kind of information. No, I [01:15:25] Dr. Taz: wish we did. [01:15:26] Shawn Stevenson: I was literally using the Dewey Decimal System. [01:15:29] Dr. Taz: Oh, I was there with [01:15:30] you. Okay? So I was there [01:15:31] Shawn Stevenson: with you. And so, you know, just take advantage of that, themodelhealthshow.com. [01:15:35] You can get all the resources there as well. My social media's there. Uh, my books are there. I have [01:15:40] multiple national bestsellers. I'm very grateful to, to say that. Just great resources. Uh, my most recent is the [01:15:45] Eat Smarter Family Cookbook. [01:15:46] Dr. Taz: Mm. [01:15:46] Shawn Stevenson: Number one cookbook release in the US when it came out. Woo-hoo. And I'm a [01:15:50] big foodie. Yeah. But there's also over 200, um, peer-reviewed studies that are embedded into the [01:15:55] content of the book, and so it's a incredible education piece. Fun. Yeah. I had a [01:16:00] lot of fun writing it. Yeah. There's a lot of superhero references in there- [01:16:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah ... [01:16:03] Shawn Stevenson: um, just to make it [01:16:05] very c- consumable and, and fun, and fun for the whole family. Right. It's called the Eat Smarter [01:16:10] Family Cookbook- [01:16:10] Dr. Taz: Mm ... [01:16:11] Shawn Stevenson: for a reason, [01:16:12] Dr. Taz: so. I love it. Yeah. Well, thanks again for being here. Of course. For everybody else, [01:16:15] thank you for watching or listening to the WHOLE+ Show. Remember to share and [01:16:20] subscribe, and we will see you guys next [01:16:25] [01:16:30] [01:16:35] [01:16:40] time.