Latest / The Kink Consultant / What Is Shibari? A Conversation On Rope Bondage with Julieta Chiara

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What Is Shibari? A Conversation On Rope Bondage with Julieta Chiara · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast.
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Where we're turning up the. Heat on all things kink and
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close the door. Plug in your headphones.
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And let's get down to it. Hey Kingsters, if you've been
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notes. Hey everyone, and welcome to
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this week's episode of the King Consultant Podcast.
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I am here with Julietta Kiara and she is a certified Shibari
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instructor. She is our first Shibari expert
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on the podcast. Welcome, Julietta.
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Thank you so much for having me. It means the world.
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About time we finally sit down and talk.
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I do not know how we've gone this long on social media.
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We recommend each other all the time.
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And like, I know that you've sent people to me.
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I've sent people to you. And I'm like, how have we never
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spoken? In fact, I cannot remember the
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name of the person. I put out a question and said,
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who should I have on the podcast?
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And when someone responded Julietta, I was like, how has
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this not? Absolute honor.
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But you are a jet setter. You are all around the world,
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aren't Where are you saying hello from today?
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Yeah, so. I used to be even more nomadic
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than now, but I live the majority of my year in Tulum,
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Mexico, and then during the summer months I'll head to my
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home in Barcelona and then travel a little in between
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either seeing family in Argentina or seeing my family
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that I have in Utah. Just round and round and round.
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It's a blessing and a curse. 100%.
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I feel you. I grew up in Ireland, but I live
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in New York and Vegas and I'm moving to Kansas City, so I'm so
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grateful for having love and places all over the world.
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But I like when I get to just sit in one place too. 100% it
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was only in the last couple years where I had this.
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I don't know if it's like a coming of age, but I was like, I
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feel like nesting a little bit. If I take one more airplane I'm
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going to freak the fuck out, is how I felt.
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I totally understand that, but now you kind of have settled now
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and you have your little routine, which is actually a
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huge routine to travel that much.
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For sure. And then with the Shibari stuff,
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once every couple years I do a really big trip to Japan, and
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that's also completely routine warping.
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It's like time goes into a vortex.
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It ruins your work schedule so you're like just never relaxed.
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I totally understand that Japan is one of the coolest places
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I've ever been because I've never felt culture shocked until
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I went to Japan and I was like, this is such a different culture
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and I loved it. When was your first trip to
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Japan? My first trip to Japan, I was 19
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and I'm 29 now. And so my dad took me.
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He was doing a business trip and my dad sells E cigs and he's has
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done that my whole life. And so he has a factory in China
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and on his way over he's like, why don't we squeeze in and do
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like a wonderful Asia trip? And so our first stop was Tokyo
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and similar to you, it had been the first time I had been
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somewhere so different. It felt like being in a sci-fi
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movie. I remember being like, none of
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this makes any sense. We are living so far in the
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fucking past. Yes, I know.
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I mean, they're vending machines alone told me we were living in
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the past. It's not just a culture shock.
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I think that even the way their economy works, I think up until
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recently they were like the 5th largest economy in the world.
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But I'm pretty sure when you buy a house there, it depreciates in
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value. It doesn't appreciate in value.
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So it's like there are how many things that we just think our
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way is the only way and someone else is like, Nope, totally
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different over. Here and you know, the deeper I
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get into like I've had a definitely a journey, but like
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knowing that Shibari or Kimbaku is now like an essential part of
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my life there does beg the question of will I eventually
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have a home there because I can make that happen.
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But it's one of those where you get action paralysis because
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it's so different and scary and difficult.
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Like I live in lawless Mexico. Rules here are sequester and in
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Japan rules are life. And so I get scared of even
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starting the process. It makes me go cross eyed
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thinking about it. I'm like, OK, I was like, one
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day, one day the dream there, I'm going to have my cool
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shibari shrine in the middle of nowhere in the countryside of
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Japan, and everyone can come see me and I'm going to hire someone
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to do it all for me. You've.
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Sparked like a million questions, but since you are
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here to talk about Shibari, you've already sparked one
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question. Shibari versus Kumbaku.
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Oh. Man, that's a heated 1.
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OK, right out the gate. Let's go.
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So much of Japanese rope bondage.
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I'll say that. It's like an umbrella.
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Statement. That's our umbrella, Japanese
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rope bondage. There's so much of it that's so
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subjective, even up to the history of Japanese rope bondage
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is really wishy washy. There's so many different
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stories on where you think it originated from.
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And then the discourse. What is the difference between
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shibari and kimbaku? And So what I'm about to say is
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purely my own opinion. I think it's stupid that you're
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trying to differentiate the two because Kimbaku, which is the
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kanji I have tattooed here. I see.
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Means bondage or the art of type binding.
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If you were to Google Translate my fingers, it would just say
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bondage. And shibari in Japanese just
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means to tie. So shibari in Japanese is a
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verb. It's not even a noun.
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So if I say I want to tie, I say shibari tie.
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This. If I said I'm tying, I say
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shibari shimasu. If I say I tie, I would say
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shibari mashta. So it's kind of dumb to debate
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the semantics of it, because you're debating the semantics of
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a verb. That's fascinating because when
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I came into it with that question, I don't know if you
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know what the general consensus is, but it's sort of like I had
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heard one of them is more artistic versus the other.
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Have you heard that? Yeah, explanation.
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I've definitely heard that, but again, it's subjective.
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How? Like there's no code book that
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says this is the correct way to do Japanese robe bondage, so how
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are you going to tell the difference between all of us
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using the same 5 knots in different ways?
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OK, but there are more than 5 knots, right?
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We only have a few knots and it's more the design work and
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the tensions and the layout can be what's different.
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So yeah, again, and I will say this, this might also be
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controversial. This might because I'm Latina
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and now you know, I'm so immersed in being accepted into
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my Japanese lineage and you know, I speak very decent
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Japanese as well, but I'm like debating the semantics of
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Kimbaku de Shivari. Feels like a white people thing.
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Oh, OK. I love it.
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I have never heard a Japanese person debate these semantics.
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I've never heard anyone outside of the US debate them.
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So I think it's a little drama. As if the King's face does not
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have enough drama like people want to make even more.
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Exactly the kink police. I just recently did an episode
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talking about the kink police and how annoyed I was at them
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all. So now that we've understand
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that I I want to tell you that I have been tied before.
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I've taken like an intro class to tying like a 1/2 hour seminar
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thing. My knowledge is basic, so I am
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going to ask questions and you might be like, how do you not
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know this? And it's like I've only ever
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been tied. I want to learn everything, so
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for. Sure.
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I even told my boyfriend I was getting on this call.
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He was like, yeah, ask her how to do an intro class.
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I'm like, I'm pretty sure she has an intro class.
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So for everyone who's like trying to follow along here, if
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they did want to actually learn for themselves, my first
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question is, are you teaching people how to do this?
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Yeah, I guess like, my rise to fame in Kimbaku is the fact that
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I have a beginner's course that's formulated in like, the
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easiest way possible to take the hardest things of what I learned
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in Japan. And then it's kind of like the
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old textbooks like this for Dummies and Breakdown in a way
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that is just seamless and also making it enjoyable.
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So I do teach people how to go from like absolute beginners to
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feeling confident in their tying skills.
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And is that something people can just learn themselves?
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They don't need to be sitting next to someone to learn to do a
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knot. It's a yes and a no.
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So I think it depends on the level of what you are learning.
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I think beginner stuff can very comfortably be taught through an
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online space, but a limit of mine would be anything involving
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more intermediate stuff where we're now playing with pain,
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maybe like the deeper sides of kink, and then things like
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suspension where we lift someone off the ground with rope.
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I full heartedly believe that needs to be taught in person, to
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be taught in the most ethical and.
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Safer way, I completely agree with that.
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I say that for things like any type of edge play, for rigging,
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I think there are a lot of dangers in that people could
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fall and that's an external further risk than a lot of other
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stuff that I think we play with because you are separated from
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the person and they are just hanging there.
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This brings a huge question up for me about Shivari in general,
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pain versus pleasure. I know that part's definitely
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subjective of how you tie in what you want from it or what
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you want to give someone as an experience.
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How much would you say is the painful side when people
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practice versus just tying in that security and bondage?
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Oh yeah. So in terms of the most evident
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line in the sand when it comes to the pain versus pleasure is
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by the time you start going into suspension, it inherently comes
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with pain. Suspension and being lifted into
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the air is immensely uncomfortable and it comes with
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pain. Again, that could be subjective,
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but suspension was never meant to be this relaxing experience
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given that the history of wanting it to be torturous,
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etcetera. And so that department will
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always come with objective pain, but pain and the pleasure can be
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involved at any point in this journey if you want it to,
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right? And I don't think it's really
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which tie you're doing. I think it really revolves on
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what is the connection you have with your partner?
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How are they manipulating your body?
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The rope is really a tool, and so I like to think of it as the
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rope becomes an extension of my arm and then I'm using it to
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manipulate you into different forms of feeling.
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So do you want to feel held? Do you want to feel challenged?
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Do you want pain? We can make pain happen.
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I can do that on the floor. So it really depends on what you
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and I were to decide going into a play space.
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Together for me, everything you've just described is exactly
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how I negotiate. It just doesn't involve rope or
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an involved rope. I mean, it's involved like
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leather cuffs and different types of bondage.
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So is there anything different when you negotiate a king scene
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that doesn't involve rope versus one that does?
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In my opinion, it's not that different.
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You know, I think the reason we have these really, really tried
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and true kink processes that we go through in order to negotiate
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established consent, etcetera, is because they work really well
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across the board. What I will say though, the only
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caveat that I see with rope is that it is one of the riskiest
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kinks that you can play with. If I'm not mistaken, I forgot
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where I read where it's breath plays.
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Obviously #1 riskiest and then #2 is shibari, and that's
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because of, you know, taking away even the kink.
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It's just what we're doing with the physicality, right?
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We're putting people's bodies in compromising positions.
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So a lot of it depends on how is your body, how can you move?
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Do you have injuries? Are you not flexible?
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Then we go into the wrist, such as nerve damage, circulation
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issues. So my negotiating and vetting
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conversations around rope happened to be maybe double the
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length of other ones because Oh my God, if you to ever come and
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tie with me, I like pull up a little form.
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OK, I love a form. And it's very clinical.
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And I'm like, are you prone to fainting?
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No, my God, the last time you ate, do you have low blood
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sugar? It is like you're at your
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doctor's office. But these are things I have to
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consider when I'm going to take away your ability to move and
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also the risks involved with Shibari.
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Which, by the way, is its own kink in itself.
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Pretending I'm at the doctor being asked those questions
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before I go into this. Right.
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I think people come into my studio and they think they're
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going to have this elaborate ancient Japanese experience, and
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I have to sit down and be like, are you menstruating?
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Do you do this professionally, Have people come to you?
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Or is it more for the social and fun erotic personal side of it?
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So ironically, it's almost flipped for me because I always
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practiced it with myself. And then three years ago as a
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bucket list item, I was like, you know what, I want to go
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train at the source, especially with this being a Japanese art,
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I think there came a point where I was like, this has been a
13:19
little whitewashed. So I want to go to the source
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and I want to see what this is about.
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What started as a bucket list item became, oh, I want to do
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this with my life. I want to do the professionally,
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so 80% of the time I'm doing this professionally and then 20%
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of the time I'm doing it for play.
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But it's hard to know that line because I'm having a good time
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either way. I one. 100% get that it is fun
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and I love that you get to live this life that you love and do
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it so regularly. Were you doing something before
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you went into this full time? Yeah, yeah.
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So before this, I was actually in school to be a sex therapist
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when I was fresh 1819. And as I was in that process, I
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had started a sex blog and I'm from Utah, right.
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So that really took off for the Mormons.
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Because it was like general sex, no kink.
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No, at the time, no kink. I mean, I was kinky, but I
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remember talking about my orgasms and sex toy reviews felt
14:13
less intimidating than talking about my kinks at the time.
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So that's how I got my rise to fame in that sense.
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And by the time I graduated my bachelor's and thought about
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becoming a licensed therapist, I already had like a full blown
14:25
business. I loved what I was doing.
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I was moving all around the world.
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And so I left behind the desire to become a licensed therapist,
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which would have really locked me, like would have put me in a
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box. Like, right.
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You can only practice in the state you're registered when
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people come to you for sex therapy.
14:41
It could be life changing, but often time the subject matter is
14:44
really heavy. And I found that I actually
14:46
wasn't prepared to deal with the heaviness of why people
14:49
typically come to sex therapy. And I was having so much fun
14:52
being a sex Blogger, reviewing sex toys, working with sex toy
14:56
brands. And then eventually I got so
14:59
fucking bored of that. And I was like, I want to talk
15:00
about kink. I'm kinky.
15:03
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15:50
And so that was like, that was the moment for you where you
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were like, OK, let me actually start talking about the things
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that drive me. Right.
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I think I didn't really fit the typical sex educator mold.
16:01
There was something inside of me, and it's like I could show
16:03
people their vulvas and teach them all of the good stuff.
16:07
But I want to talk about getting choked.
16:11
Let me bring you the good word of choking.
16:13
Yeah, I 100% get that. As someone who also I just went
16:17
straight into talking about kink to the point that and I talk
16:20
about vibrators or something, I'm almost like, how do I talk
16:24
about this? Because it isn't the lived
16:25
experience I have. So kink really was and it
16:28
allowed me to go straight into it.
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But I love that you went the full spectrum.
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Does the blog still exist? It does not.
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I have taken it down, but I'm now restarting a sub stack in
16:39
hopes of getting back into writing.
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Perhaps this has happened to you in some capacity, but sometimes
16:45
our passions become work and that removes a bit of the
16:48
passion side of it. And so I that after a while I
16:50
had lost my spark with writing and I would really like that to
16:53
come back organically. But man, when I'm in that flow,
16:57
me and an open blog space is pretty unhinged.
17:01
So I'm excited to bring it back. So your sub SEC is already
17:05
started. It started, but you know we're
17:07
going to get it rolled I. Totally get it and it does
17:10
happen to me. Like I am so grateful that I
17:12
made my passion my career. However, there are moments of
17:16
burnout where I'm just like, I don't even want to think about
17:20
kink right now. Right.
17:21
You know, people see us and they see, oh, the kinky experts, the
17:25
kinky women. You must be tying people up all
17:27
day. I'm like, I'm making automations
17:29
and sending emails and adjusting funnels.
17:32
I know. I'm like, I'm editing content
17:34
where I'm like hyper focused on if I've said the word OK too
17:37
many times in this like one thing, what I obsess over now is
17:41
so different from just getting to talk passionately about kink.
17:44
And you're right, sometimes I want to be on a content
17:47
schedule. I want to get Instagram videos
17:49
out regularly. But if if I'm not feeling it,
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I'm not going to push it anymore.
17:53
It's like balancing act. I mean it's the fallacy of being
17:56
kinky images as people think that this is our entire life.
18:00
Like in a weird way, it's so infused with our life, but we
18:03
also do some normal people shit, you know?
18:05
Yeah, And I do think about it a lot because it's such a large
18:08
part of me. But there was this threshold
18:10
that I was able to cross where it was a large part of me when I
18:13
had to hide it and it seemed bigger.
18:15
But now that I'm so out in the open, it really gets to just be
18:19
the 10% of my my life that it always has been.
18:21
It's just that when I didn't get to experience it and I had to
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hide it, there was almost a magnifying glass on that
18:26
internally, you know? Yeah.
18:28
There are so many things I want to talk to you about.
18:30
I want to talk to you about self tying.
18:31
But then you were like, oh, I was studying to be a sex
18:32
therapist. Which means even though you were
18:34
in Utah, my assumption is that you were in a very sex positive
18:38
home in upbringing. Yeah, absolutely.
18:40
Utah now Salt Lake City, where I'm from is amazing.
18:44
What's very open now, it's kind of become Portland, right?
18:47
But growing up, that was not really the case.
18:50
I was in the epicenter of the birthplace of Mormons and it was
18:53
very much if you are not Mormon or if you are not white.
18:56
There's some exclusionary stuff there but I was lucky I was born
19:01
to atheist Argentinian sex positive parents who did not put
19:06
me through any religious and or sexual shame trauma.
19:09
How did they end up in Utah? Because they just went to the
19:13
epicenter of everything you just described.
19:15
Yes. I know I remember gaining my
19:18
first slivers of consciousness and being like, wait a minute,
19:21
why? And it's because we had cousins
19:24
who lived there and they had sponsored my parents to come and
19:28
through working for them and sponsoring them on a work visa
19:30
help them attain citizenship. So Utah was their only option.
19:36
Yes, that makes a ton of sense. That's like how my mother ended
19:40
up in Allentown, PA. Like that was the only option
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and that's how you ended up in the place you choose to emigrate
19:45
to. That is really funny though,
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because it's the end to this is also just your darker features,
19:50
your dark hair. And yes, I do associate Utah
19:53
with the mommy Blogger type. 100% the mommy Blogger.
19:57
And then you come out, maybe it's a Utah.
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Thing to be a Blogger in general, actually, you come out
20:02
and you're like, let me talk about sex.
20:04
Oh yeah, I'm like Mormons, mommy bloggers, MLMS, you Tess.
20:09
Oh my gosh, so many of them. But then you put your stamp on
20:13
it. Did your parents know
20:14
immediately? Oh yeah, they knew this was my
20:16
life calling. I graduated high school a year
20:18
early. Well, I was older in there
20:20
because of the cutoff, but I was like up.
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I want to be a sex therapist. This is what I want to go into.
20:25
This is what I'm interested in. And they're like, cool, amazing.
20:28
Let's do it. You know, I still, I graduated,
20:30
but I gave up the idea of going further with that and I started
20:33
my other company. I was working with a lot of sex
20:36
toy brands and then I was managing social media for adult
20:39
brands and that's when my family started working for me and they
20:42
still do. Holy crap.
20:45
Wow, So all of your family. So there was a point where it
20:49
was all of them in different variations, like it'd be my mom
20:52
receiving the packages because we'd get sent a bunch of toys.
20:56
Like only in the past six months did I go back and I had to clean
20:59
out an entire storage unit of thousands of dildos.
21:03
Oh my gosh, you want a regular rotation?
21:06
Regular. Freaking rotation.
21:08
Like it was so scary. My dad was CFO for a while and
21:12
then my sister still manages some accounts and then my other
21:15
Mormon sister with a kid is my personal assistant.
21:19
So if anyone's getting emails written back to them, just know
21:24
that it's one of my Mormon sisters who converted as adults
21:27
messaging you back the things. Way.
21:30
Well, I love that they're obviously accepting of it, even
21:33
like through the conversion. That's the thing about kink.
21:35
I think a lot of people think that religion means you can't
21:38
enjoy kink, but there is nothing inherently wrong about kink,
21:42
even religiously. And I'm curious for you, Amanda,
21:44
like, have you found that the more religious people are that
21:47
you work with, the freakier they are?
21:49
100%. I feel like a little Angel
21:54
compared to any religious person I work with.
21:57
I feel the same way and much of my coaching business is super
22:02
religious people are people raised in religion and I'm like
22:04
OK there's a lot going on here that we need to dissect but it's
22:07
like the freakiest people. I am not religious but
22:11
religious. I was raised Roman Catholic in
22:14
Ireland. I joke that I enjoy the shame
22:18
and it's probably like I guess I was lucky because some people
22:20
just end up with a lot of shame and they are not sex positive
22:23
because the Catholics should shame them.
22:24
I was born kinky so I was like shame yes sign me up this is
22:28
getting me off so maybe I fall under that religious bucket of
22:31
people. I think so.
22:33
I think so. But it's a thing.
22:34
Kinks are modeled from what's happening in society or the
22:38
things that are happening around us.
22:40
And so I think in a really beautiful way, kink is almost
22:43
the side effect to what we go through or what we've been
22:46
exposed to. I know especially some of my
22:49
kinks, I do have a spanking fetish that everyone who listens
22:52
to the podcast knows I feel like I was born with, but then other
22:55
kinks have been put on top of that.
22:57
I have both experiences of like the thing I was born with versus
23:01
the thing I found that I enjoyed for different reasons.
23:03
A multi faceted 1. Yes, mostly around kink, but
23:08
yes, in all aspects. I want to talk to you about self
23:10
tying. You mentioned it earlier and we
23:12
were in some other conversation. I was like, I cannot let this
23:14
go. Self tying.
23:16
Do you find it fulfilling? Is it something you do because
23:18
you just don't have somebody else to tie for you?
23:20
Do you recommend it as a way to learn to tie to self tie?
23:23
OK, I think those are my 3 questions I'm throwing at you
23:25
first. OK, I started self tying.
23:29
That was probably one of the first things I did when I
23:31
discovered shibari. And I think at the time there
23:35
was some truth to the fact that I didn't have a partner, but it
23:38
was more because I'm just an impatient bitch.
23:40
And I was like, I don't want to find the right person I feel
23:42
fucking safe with and I'm really good at it.
23:45
And then other people might not be that good at it, so I don't
23:48
want to wait for them. It was a very impatient thing as
23:51
to why I started self tying. But quickly when I started self
23:55
tying, I realized that for me, it became off like a flow
23:59
activity. And it also helped me be present
24:01
with my body. I'm an anxious being.
24:04
I live 100% of the time in my head.
24:06
So when I tie or when I self tie, I immediately just drop
24:10
back into my body and I get to have a nice, beautiful somatic
24:14
experience with myself because, you know, we're binding things
24:16
together, we're compressing things.
24:19
There's such a somatic experience to it, even if we're
24:22
not thinking about the overt kink.
24:24
And so when I'm tying myself, my breath starts getting slower.
24:27
I stop thinking about things more focused on the sensation
24:32
and it really does feel like going through some sort of
24:35
somatic meditation and it has taught me a lot about my own
24:39
body. And particularly I recommend
24:42
self tying to anyone who wants to get into shibari, whether
24:47
that be the person who wants to be tied or the person tying.
24:51
Because you will understand so much that you just can't learn
24:55
by watching a YouTube video about the terms of shibari.
24:59
You know, I get to learn what feels good, what doesn't.
25:02
I get to have language on. I don't like when the rope is
25:04
dragged this way, or I don't like when knots are put here.
25:07
It's invaluable information about yourself.
25:10
I love that I think that there are some kinks that are hard to
25:14
do on yourself but as I'm imagining it I'm like I could
25:18
see how that would be really beneficial.
25:20
How long were you self tying before you met a partner who you
25:24
did this with? This is where it gets kind of
25:26
fun. I'm going to preface something.
25:28
I am a bonafide submission. I have tried being dominant.
25:32
It is not my thing. Like you said, you were like
25:34
born with your spanking kink. I was born to be a sub.
25:38
Being submissive feels as about inherent as my sexuality, my
25:42
gender identity. It feels like this is me.
25:44
But when it comes to shibari, I typically prefer being the one
25:50
tying. It is the only space in kink
25:52
where you will see me take a top role.
25:55
That is absolutely fascinating to me because you are so
26:00
passionate in how you described you being a submissive.
26:03
I mean, the lineage I learned under is not very kinky.
26:07
And so I think the reason I chose to learn from the master
26:10
that I learned from is because his style is not dependent or
26:15
aggressive in kink. It's very artistic.
26:18
And so I get to be on top while still being sort of a sub like
26:22
the one I tie people. It's more like I'm servicing
26:24
you. You know, I'm getting to take
26:26
you through this beautiful experience.
26:27
It's not dummy in the slightest. And so I self tied for a long
26:32
time and I did have other people tie me.
26:35
But The thing is I had a natural inclination for it and so I was
26:39
always 10 times better at tying than anyone who attempted to tie
26:43
me. And you know, taking
26:45
responsibility for just being a bratty sub.
26:48
It always annoyed me because I never would get tied the way I
26:51
wanted to, only when I stepped into it professionally and I
26:54
started to meet colleagues. This sounds douchey but like are
26:57
on the same level. Have I started having beautiful
27:00
tying experiences with other people that I melt immediately
27:05
into their ropes? But I think it's because I know
27:07
they have the same training, the same knowledge to be able to
27:10
carry me through it without thinking like closing my eyes,
27:13
being like, are they doing it right?
27:14
That's so fair. That's not even bratty.
27:16
I will say, like, you know, if you can't play tennis with a
27:19
tennis pro and vice versa, if you're a pro, you can teach
27:23
someone to play, but you're not going to have an engaging match
27:26
with them. I'd say that as someone who
27:27
can't play tennis. But anyway, my point is, I don't
27:30
even think it's douchey. You do need someone at your
27:32
level, especially when you know what could go wrong.
27:36
Like one place where I'm flexible is I have a Shibari
27:39
studio here and every other Sunday we do Shibari Sundays,
27:42
which is just women who come together to tie and we hang out
27:45
and it's like girls night. And a lot of them are either my
27:47
friends or they are my students. And in that space, I actually do
27:50
let people who are very new to it or they have only had a few
27:54
classes under their belt, I let them tie me because that is also
27:57
an educational experience for me to be able to give some
28:00
feedback. But I am also able to, I guess,
28:03
enjoy being tied in a less intense way by people who might
28:07
not be as experienced. But these are people have
28:09
developed friendships with trust with.
28:12
So it'll be interesting to see the day that I have a steady
28:15
rigor for me. Do you rig other people?
28:19
Do you suspend other people? I do, I do.
28:22
That's also another thing. And maybe that happens to you as
28:24
well. But when you are quote UN quote,
28:27
the closest thing to an expert at something in the room, people
28:30
will naturally come to you to facilitate it.
28:33
So even if I step into a rope jam, being the most experienced
28:37
person there, people want to get tied by me and it leaves me
28:41
little room to sometimes explore me getting tied.
28:44
But yeah, I do. I launch people into the air all
28:47
the time. The only thing is on Instagram I
28:50
don't really post it because anything suspension related
28:52
usually gets shadow banned or taken down.
28:55
It is funny that people, they're like, really?
28:58
You suspend, you do all these things.
29:00
I'm like, yeah, I just can't promote it because I don't want
29:02
to lose my. Business, yes, I totally
29:05
understand that. I've noticed a lot of people who
29:07
had suspension accounts taken down, yeah.
29:09
I have a separate Shibari account where I post a lot of my
29:13
suspension work. There I have a real big soft
29:16
spot for suspension because I think that's where a lot of
29:18
magic happens. I bet it does.
29:20
I like certain types of pain. That pain scares me because it
29:24
seems like something I can't quickly get out of.
29:26
So that is something that I would have to obviously work up
29:29
to for many reasons, but I've never actually been drawn to do
29:33
it myself. But I can never look away when I
29:36
see it happening in front of me. It's mesmerizing.
29:38
When you watch two people who are very connected and do it,
29:40
it's like watching a ballet. You just can't stop.
29:43
Because it is like a dance. I think a lot of kink scenes are
29:46
like a dance, but that's specifically, can we talk a
29:49
little bit about what a rope scene is like either suspension
29:53
or not, you have the negotiation stage of it, right?
29:57
But can you guide me through like, is that just one part of a
30:00
scene or is the tying the entire scene?
30:03
I'd love to learn more and understand more.
30:05
Privy to other kink scenes. It's really what you want to
30:08
make of it, right? Like a question I love asking
30:10
is, what do you want to feel? And then I always ask, what do
30:14
you want the vibe to be? Do you want the vibe to be deep
30:17
in introspect so you have time to sink into your experience
30:20
internally? Do you want it to be casual,
30:22
where we're just talking like friends?
30:24
Do you want it to be sensational, so when you're tied
30:27
up, maybe we have scratching, massaging?
30:30
Do you want it to be overtly more painful than it already is?
30:36
Because then you'll tailor to that you will find a way to make
30:39
it more painful. Exactly.
30:40
And so the rope scenes, it really just depends on the vibe.
30:45
Typically if I'm tying with friends, it's a little more
30:48
casual and maybe we just pop on a good playlist and we start
30:52
tying and then I'll lift them in the air.
30:54
We're laughing, we're giggling, we're saying Ouch.
30:57
Oh my God, yeah. Getting some good photos in.
31:01
But say I'm taking someone through a more introspective
31:05
session, which is what I call just slowly guiding you into the
31:10
feeling of the pain, the binding, etcetera, and letting
31:13
you have your own experience and letting you drop in without
31:16
needing to like give me validation or say anything.
31:19
It's a lot like a typical kink scene where it's like, how do we
31:23
start our scene? It's usually going to be
31:24
something to warm us up and slowly get us into the headspace
31:28
of submission, right? Buying a tight body, Like if
31:31
you're all tense and stuff like this, it's not comfortable.
31:35
So usually we'll do very slow tying to begin with and then
31:38
we'll slowly intra way up into the meat of the scene, which
31:42
would be launching your little body up though.
31:44
If you have someone coming to you and it's their first time,
31:47
will you suspend? And them almost never.
31:49
I think there's subjective like safety things and then there's
31:53
personal boundaries around it. So the only times I've ever
31:56
suspended people I just met is because they are in the Shibari
32:00
space and I have clearly seen myriads of evidence that they
32:05
have been suspended and they've been able to really clearly
32:08
communicate their needs, desire, wants, etcetera.
32:11
But particularly if someone's never been tied up period, or
32:15
they haven't done a lot of safari, and then if I don't know
32:17
them, it's a very intimate thing.
32:20
Tying someone is already intimate.
32:21
You know, you're putting your entire body in someone's hands,
32:24
suspending them and pushing them to their edge, and then taking
32:28
them along a ride that's potentially really dangerous
32:31
with a lot of risk and could be really cathartic and somatic,
32:35
etcetera. It's so fucking intimate that if
32:38
I don't know you, it's just not going to happen.
32:40
Oh, that makes so much sense. That energy space you have to
32:43
enter, whether you're submissive, dominant, top,
32:45
bottom, you are entering an energy space with someone.
32:48
And I feel like any type of kink, you want to be careful
32:51
before you do it. People have tried to use this as
32:53
bad feedback towards me because I'm one of the few professional
32:56
shibari people that I do not offer sessions for you to pay
33:01
for me to tie you because more often not, I don't fucking know
33:04
you. So what do you offer sessions
33:08
for? Yeah, so ioffer sessions for
33:10
learning. I'll do a lot of like open
33:12
houses, the online training. And so yeah, I teach a style
33:16
from a very famous master. I am licensed under Hajime
33:19
Kinoko and so I teach his style which is very sought out and the
33:25
bulk of my work would be private sessions teaching this.
33:28
But then as people get into my spaces and we get to know each
33:32
other a little bit more and we feel comfortable, that can
33:34
definitely change. But right at face value, I do
33:37
not offer sessions to where you can pay me to tie you when I
33:40
don't know you. Oh.
33:41
That's a great boundary to have. Yeah, exactly.
33:44
Now I'm curious, outside of Shibari, you said you were
33:48
submissive, are there other kinks you're into?
33:50
Do you have scenes outside of that?
33:53
You know it's funny because keen Baku or shibari is so hands on
33:57
tool wise, but I'm not a huge tool kink girly, So I'm like
34:02
heavily psychological kink girly in my flavor of submission.
34:07
My largest kink is being objectified largest one.
34:11
Sprinkle that with a dizzle dazzle of degradation,
34:14
humiliation. So typically I prefer that in a
34:17
psychological way. So how I talk to how I'm being
34:20
treated, how I'm being guided. And then yeah, the actual tools
34:24
for some people that tend to be big tend to be so secondary for
34:28
me. So I do like impact.
34:30
I do like certain sensation being this my archetype is I'm
34:34
the boss babe who's always in control.
34:35
Like if you can get into my fucking head and fuck with me,
34:39
that's where my submission lives.
34:41
That is sexy as fuck. OK.
34:43
Yeah, we've been in this lifestyle for a while.
34:46
Like for myself personally, I'm like, oh, I can get spanked all
34:49
day and not get into a submissive space.
34:52
I can get tired and not get into a submissive space.
34:55
Can you maneuver and play me like a violin?
34:58
Psychologically, now we're talking.
35:00
Do you have any advice for people looking for that type of
35:04
dynamic? For someone who wants to find a
35:07
partner who's into this. That's a fucking hard question,
35:10
isn't it? Because I asked.
35:12
So many people because it is a hard one.
35:14
Let me know if you get this. Every time I get it on my
35:16
Instagram or in any of my programs, it always like hits me
35:19
in the chest is the how do I find the perfect Dom?
35:22
And I'm like, oh, that's such a loaded question.
35:26
Well, how do you answer that? Do you answer that?
35:29
Well the way that I answer that is 1.
35:32
I hate that question because when you contextualize it,
35:35
they're typically wondering where can I just order a Dom
35:38
like an Amazon item? They're just going to show up
35:41
and be perfect and guide me. What they're not considering is
35:44
that finding the perfect Dom subjectively for you is just
35:48
going to be a lot like dating. You have to make a connection.
35:51
You have to get to know each other.
35:52
You have to build trust, you have to build safety.
35:54
That could be with someone from Fetlife.
35:56
It could be from someone you met at the grocery store.
35:58
You just don't know. And this is easier said than
36:01
done. You and I are so open that this
36:03
is normal, but I always lead with my desires first within one
36:07
to two conversations of anyone and who connects with me where
36:10
we might be intimate. My submissive identity is the
36:14
first thing that they know about.
36:16
I mean, it's almost a responsibility to share it I
36:18
feel. And I was just talking to a
36:20
friend about this. If you know it's important to
36:22
you, you owe the respect to the other person to have the option
36:26
to opt out early before they find it out about you.
36:28
And it's nothing to be ashamed about, but it's like, show your
36:31
true self so they can see it and then you know whether it's worth
36:34
going forward with them or not. And then even if you get
36:37
nervous, you know, my other portion of advice is when you
36:41
are confident in your own desires, you give permission for
36:45
other people to be confident in theirs as well.
36:48
You know, someone might not appear dominant or appear kinky.
36:51
You don't know that. But if you give them the
36:53
permission slip to say, hey, this is who I am, they might
36:56
say, I've always wanted to explore that or oh, I am this
37:00
way, but I haven't had anyone who I can share this with.
37:03
And so I think creating that dialogue and then just
37:06
remembering that we are all humans.
37:08
We're not these like kink pumping machines that you can
37:11
create these really beautiful dynamics and they don't need to
37:14
be as stereotypicals might find them.
37:17
To be or serious, that's something I want to point out.
37:19
Like there is no shame in being kinky and make it fun because it
37:23
is fun. We enjoy it because we find
37:25
great joy and experiences that you don't get elsewhere.
37:29
That's fun, it's novel, it's exciting, it's compelling.
37:33
So like if you treat it with that respect too, I think it
37:35
helps draw someone in. Oh, and I hate to step on a
37:38
soapbox right now, but I do have one thing to say to that perfect
37:41
Dom question. My version of that is, well, I
37:43
don't want to teach a Dom about that one gets me because I'm
37:46
like I always say you teach people how to love you.
37:49
And to your point, it's just like dating, teach them how to
37:51
Dom you. And again, the tennis thing,
37:53
it's like go meet someone at your level, learn together and
37:56
improve together instead of just like cherry picking again, the
37:59
perfect Dom, then you're just getting his version if he's way
38:03
more advanced or she's way more advanced.
38:05
And so that's my version of the perfect Dom for me, it's like I
38:08
don't want to teach. I'm like we teach everyone how
38:10
to love us if we enter relationship.
38:12
Yeah, there's always going to be an inherent level of teaching
38:16
when you connect with someone, but I particularly, almost
38:20
exclusively, you know, outside of shibari work with submissive
38:22
women. And so that tends to be one of
38:24
the largest hurdles is how much teaching am I willing to do
38:29
before I don't feel very submissive.
38:32
That's a good point. For me, it's about if you are
38:35
with someone curious and interested in learning by
38:37
themselves, then you don't have to do as much teaching.
38:41
So it's sort of like that's my threshold of I dated vanilla for
38:44
a long time and I would know early on if they were willing to
38:47
do the work in research. That was my line in the sand.
38:50
If we were dating for a month and they had not done any
38:52
research on their own, I was like, oh, this is never going to
38:55
work. But if they had done things and
38:57
was like, well, I was looking at this, I'm like, this is a good
38:59
positive sign. 100% I think when I get angsty about looking for
39:04
partners like my 1 little victimy quote that always comes
39:07
up for me is I want someone to teach me something new.
39:11
Oh, wait, I fucking like that. I hate that you told me that
39:15
line. I'm in a wonderful relationship
39:16
with someone who shares my fetish.
39:18
Everything's really good. But yeah, I never had that line,
39:21
but I felt it deeply when you said it.
39:22
So that again, it's not a healthy thing to say and it's
39:25
very victim coded and it's very benign of self responsibility
39:30
and communication. But yeah, when I ever get like
39:32
pouty little girl, I'm like, why can't someone teach me something
39:35
new? Well, and that's why you want
39:36
them to get in your head, because what they're going to
39:38
teach you is something about yourself.
39:40
Absolutely. OK.
39:41
We are. Coming up on time, this has been
39:44
a wonderful conversation. I'm like there are 1000 other
39:47
things I could ask but I want to circle back to how we began the
39:51
conversation. I'm going to go get your intro
39:53
course because I'm excited to learn and so is my partner.
39:57
What advice would you like to impart on everyone about
40:00
learning Shibari? Any tips?
40:01
Tips, tricks, things you just want people to know before they
40:04
start their journey. #1 tip, we see this a lot in like the
40:08
medical field as well. Don't read everybody's opinion
40:12
on shibari. You just got to make your own
40:14
opinion. Everybody has a lot to say in
40:16
the way that it's taught and especially in America it's
40:20
people are very opinionated. Just choose somewhere to learn
40:24
and learn it for yourself and create your own dynamic in your
40:27
own ecosystem. With Shivari you don't need to
40:31
take everyone's opinion in order to formulate it.
40:34
The second is learn with yourself.
40:37
The self tying thing. I will always always always
40:40
recommend it because you are going to learn a lot from tying
40:42
yourself and even if you want to be the one rigging, you are
40:45
going to learn a lot about what the people in your ropes are
40:48
feeling. I find that to be so fucking
40:50
valuable. And then the third is be
40:52
prepared to see what what the ropes tell you.
40:55
I think the ropes tell you a lot about yourself.
40:57
You might go into it thinking this is going to be sultry and
41:01
kinky, and then they might make you emotional or feel tender.
41:05
It's almost like a mood ring. Let the ropes tell you what you
41:08
need to know. Oh what a freaking quote.
41:11
Thank you very much. Where can people find you?
41:14
I am of course going to put links in the show notes, but if
41:16
people are on their phones right now and they want to go look
41:18
immediately, where can they find you?
41:20
Easiest place would be Instagram so it's at Giulietta Chiara and
41:24
if you want to see the suspension to prove I know what
41:27
the fuck I'm doing, you can go to at Chiara Shibari.
41:31
I promise you, I do the real thing.
41:34
We could have dedicated a whole episode to getting freaking
41:37
angry at people who just look at you and think, oh, you're young,
41:40
you know nothing, you're just selling yourself for easy views.
41:43
No, you've put in the freaking work.
41:46
Until you've had a Japanese master make you cry every single
41:50
time you train. I don't want to fucking hear.
41:53
Oh my God, I don't know if I could have survived that.
41:56
I'm amazed he didn't have a bamboo stick to hit me with, you
41:59
know? It was just his sheer presence
42:01
and like humiliated stare that was good enough to push me
42:04
towards the end. So I've put my heart and soul
42:07
into this. I would love to introduce you to
42:10
it and I'll introduce it to you in a way that is not so Japanese
42:14
coated with the shameful stares and the big critiques.
42:18
I'm like a loving fairy rope mom who just guides you into it and
42:23
makes you feel confident about starting your rope journey.
42:26
That was extremely self aware because that is every vibe I
42:29
have gotten from you the entire time I've been chatting with you
42:31
today following you. Julietta, thank you so much for
42:35
being here. I hope to have you back maybe in
42:37
a year's time where I can actually talk about my
42:39
experiences learning. I would love that.
42:41
Thank you so much for having me. All right Kingsters, if you
42:45
enjoyed hearing from Julieta, I have great news.
42:48
She'll also be teaching at the dumps of Dynamics Virtual
42:51
Summit. Head to the link and show notes
42:52
to grab your free ticket. If you enjoyed this episode,
42:57
don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with
42:59
anyone who might find it interesting.
43:01
And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
43:04
future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
43:06
info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
43:11
on.