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Esther Garnick - You Don’t Need More Clothes. You Need the Right Ones. · Stacked with Jennifer Laforge

• 0:00
  Jen LaForge: Hi everyone, welcome back to this episode of Stacked.
• 0:03
  Jen LaForge: We have been having some serious conversations about the engines and the people and the processes behind loyalty.
• 0:10
  Jen LaForge: And for something so fun as giving away money for shopping, it's been pretty serious.
• 0:16
  Jen LaForge: So I'm gonna step back today and have a conversation just as important, but probably a lot more fun.
• 0:23
  Jen LaForge: And I'm very excited to introduce my guest, Esther.
• 0:26
  Jen LaForge: Now, Esther, I have to do the background, was the first ever podcast that I ever did.
• 0:31
  Jen LaForge: She graciously invited me into her studio.
• 0:33
  Jen LaForge: We did a podcast together, and we have been, I think, starlined ever since.
• 0:39
  Jen LaForge: So thank you so much for coming back.
• 0:40
  Jen LaForge: You today are doing something completely different than those many moons ago when we sat down together on the other side of this.
• 0:49
  Jen LaForge: Um, I'd love for you to share that story because I think it's gonna set the stage for us.
• 0:53
  Jen LaForge: So, what have you been up to and what are you doing these days?
• 0:56
  Jen LaForge: Okay, what have I been up to?
• 0:58
  Esther Garnick: After what I can only describe as like a hard professional burnout, I took a break.
• 1:06
  Esther Garnick: I stopped everything on the advice of a professional that I engaged to just kind of like help me almost intercept my own instincts, which for two decades had been like push, push through it.
• 1:21
  Esther Garnick: It's you know, it's hard now, but just push through it, get through.
• 1:24
  Esther Garnick: And I think that, you know, after 20 years working in PR and hosting a podcast, which I did for a couple of years, interviewing some of the most inspiring business leaders, such as yourself, um, it just became clear that I was beyond the burnout rate and I was pretty much burned down.
• 1:44
  Esther Garnick: So after listening to the advice to just sort of take a break, stop everything, very unexpectedly, my phone rang one day and it was actually my son's teacher, but it was summertime.
• 2:02
  Esther Garnick: And so the phone rings, I see her name, and I'm thinking, like, this is so weird, maybe it's a butt dial, like what's happening?
• 2:09
  Esther Garnick: I answer the phone and she starts the conversation with, if this is too weird, just hang up and we can forget about it.
• 2:16
  Esther Garnick: So immediately I'm like, what is it?
• 2:19
  Esther Garnick: She said, I had hired someone to come into my home and help me assemble some outfits and try to make sense of my style a little bit because I'm feeling a little bit lost.
• 2:29
  Esther Garnick: I'm postpartum.
• 2:30
  Esther Garnick: Is this something I could hire you for instead?
• 2:33
  Esther Garnick: Immediately I was like, that's not even a job, that's a joy.
• 2:38
  Esther Garnick: So if you need someone to come and help you with that, I will be there, lickety split, don't ask again, I'm I'm on my way.
• 2:47
  Esther Garnick: And then of course, when I got there, I realized very quickly that there was an entire process that needed to happen.
• 2:55
  Esther Garnick: I needed to help her edit through her wardrobe, which probably had not been purged or like there'd been no series of there's been no evolution for a while.
• 3:08
  Esther Garnick: Just the collection of clothes.
• 3:09
  Esther Garnick: It was just like a dense jungle of clothes of all sizes, trends we can forget about forever.
• 3:17
  Esther Garnick: Um, you know, just it needed to be paired back before I could even start putting things together and see what fits her currently and also suits her lifestyle.
• 3:27
  Esther Garnick: Anyway, all of this is to say, about seven hours into doing this, and you know, with like a sweaty brow and just something inside of me just clicked where I was like, this is so, this is just bringing so much joy.
• 3:43
  Esther Garnick: And I'm helping someone feel confident in themselves.
• 3:48
  Esther Garnick: And then it took me a little while because she referred me and then I kept getting referred, and then I it occurred to me, I'm like, okay, have I accidentally started a new business, which is now the EG wardrobe edit, EG for my first and last initials.
• 4:02
  Esther Garnick: Um, and it became a thing really organically.
• 4:07
  Esther Garnick: It took me a while to realize that the through line between sort of PR and podcast host is that it's sort of like a really intimate experience.
• 4:17
  Esther Garnick: You're connecting on a, you know, on a very personal level and helping people really achieve a sense of confidence and also like help them communicate who they are by what they put on their bodies.
• 4:34
  Esther Garnick: And I think that when it comes to shopping, sometimes I think it can sound a little bit like superficial, but really when you think about it, and I have over the last year of doing this business, what you put on your skin really trickles into like how you feel in your skin and how you present yourself to the world.
• 4:54
  Esther Garnick: So um it's been a really gratifying pivot that I didn't see coming, but one that I'm so glad sort of found me.
• 5:05
  Esther Garnick: And now we get to talk about it and we get to have fun with it.
• 5:08
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, now I get to be on your podcast.
• 5:10
  Jen LaForge: First, let me just say how happy I am for you that you could take a joy and it turn into an accidental business that is such a success and so aligned with who you are.
• 5:20
  Jen LaForge: Thank you.
• 5:21
  Jen LaForge: But through all of that, what I just heard were your values and the core of how you help people and women and the power of a wardrobe is so understated, I think.
• 5:34
  Jen LaForge: And um, and so that's why I'm really excited to dive in because there's two sides to it is is I'm that we're gonna go on.
• 5:41
  Jen LaForge: It's one is how do you really curate and make sure that you feel good and you look good and it changes how you present yourself.
• 5:49
  Jen LaForge: And then tech on to help people understand how to make that affordable.
• 5:53
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 5:54
  Jen LaForge: Because there's so much waste.
• 5:55
  Jen LaForge: I mean, when you think about when you when you went through her jungle, how many dollars do you think you put in the donation bench?
• 6:03
  Esther Garnick: I don't even want to say because I'm almost sure she'll watch this and listen to this.
• 6:09
  Esther Garnick: So flagging that we've kind of changed our habits around spending.
• 6:15
  Esther Garnick: But when I got there, when I say there were like thousands upon thousands of dollars in clothes that could be donated, um, I do really like to promote consigning clothes, um, especially if there's some value still in them to be had and they maybe aren't for you, but maybe they can have a whole other life with someone else.
• 6:38
  Esther Garnick: So whatever we could turn into a little bit of money back, we did.
• 6:43
  Esther Garnick: But there were thousands upon thousands of dollars that were like unused, underworn, just sad-looking clothes that were like, you're never gonna pick me.
• 6:54
  Esther Garnick: So what am I even doing here?
• 6:56
  Esther Garnick: And now they're off to live their best life, either via donation or via the consignment channel.
• 7:02
  Esther Garnick: But it was a lot of money.
• 7:04
  Jen LaForge: A lot of money.
• 7:05
  Jen LaForge: I'm also a victim of that.
• 7:07
  Jen LaForge: Because I think it happens for a couple of reasons.
• 7:10
  Jen LaForge: There's the the compulsion to want to be in style and always look great and have something new and a new outfit for every occasion.
• 7:17
  Jen LaForge: It can be driven by, we've talked a lot about emotional triggers in particular when it comes to shopping and you're filling some emotional voids.
• 7:24
  Jen LaForge: So you're buying things, I think it comes from your body, it just changes as women go through this evolution that changes our body.
• 7:33
  Jen LaForge: And then there's just this impulse where we want to wear these certain things and we buy them, and then we get home, we put them on, and um, you're terrible at returning things like me.
• 7:44
  Jen LaForge: And you're like, what was I thinking?
• 7:46
  Esther Garnick: That is exactly everything you said, is what I see.
• 7:50
  Esther Garnick: And it like wardrobe over wardrobe.
• 7:53
  Esther Garnick: I've seen a version of either all of that or some of it, but not all of it.
• 7:59
  Esther Garnick: Like, there's so many factors that go into how people shop and how to kind of retrain yourself to almost practice restraint um when it comes to those emotional triggers, and also just how to learn what is going to work for you, how to shop smarter, and not just from a budget perspective, but also from a cost-per-ware value perspective.
• 8:27
  Esther Garnick: Like what does your life actually look like?
• 8:29
  Esther Garnick: And so shop for the life you have.
• 8:32
  Esther Garnick: And obviously, you know, there is something to be said about shopping for the life you want.
• 8:39
  Esther Garnick: And that is definitely true, I think, in a professional environment, just kind of presenting yourself or what you're trying to communicate.
• 8:47
  Esther Garnick: Um, but you know, even if there's a great ball gown on sale and you buy that ball gown on sale, but your life doesn't take you to any balls.
• 8:57
  Esther Garnick: Now that on-sale ball gown is still of no value because it's just hanging there saying, you know, sorry, I I actually wasn't meant to be here in the first place.
• 9:08
  Jen LaForge: So okay, so I feel like to pause to anyone out there with a ball gown that you bought, don't feel bad, just wear it.
• 9:14
  Esther Garnick: Wear it at home.
• 9:15
  Esther Garnick: Wear it at home, wear it to the grocery store.
• 9:18
  Esther Garnick: And if somebody's gonna judge you for it, that's on them.
• 9:21
  Esther Garnick: But at the same time, I would gently steer you in a direction where when you are looking at what you should purchase next, give it a little bit of consideration.
• 9:32
  Esther Garnick: Like, where am I wearing this?
• 9:35
  Esther Garnick: What do I already have in my wardrobe that can pair back to this item?
• 9:39
  Esther Garnick: And is it gonna serve me for the foreseeable future?
• 9:44
  Jen LaForge: So don't feel bad if you're in the same place I am.
• 9:48
  Esther Garnick: Jen, I have to come to your closet.
• 9:50
  Jen LaForge: I've been working on it.
• 9:50
  Jen LaForge: We have to edit that closet.
• 9:51
  Jen LaForge: I've been working on it, actually.
• 9:53
  Jen LaForge: I've I've gone through a lot of the purging of it, and I'm leaning more now on the quality of things.
• 10:00
  Jen LaForge: Um, but where I do, so I wanted to say step one, you would say probably is to do that purge, right?
• 10:06
  Esther Garnick: I would say look at everything, even if you're overwhelmed by it.
• 10:09
  Esther Garnick: And to be fair, this is kind of why my job exists, is because I think a lot of the time, bandwidth is an issue for a lot of working women who might be moms as well.
• 10:22
  Esther Garnick: Life gets busy.
• 10:24
  Esther Garnick: And sometimes you look at your closet and you have so many things on your to-do list, just like breathing down your neck, that the idea of going section by section through your wardrobe is too daunting a task to even try to attempt, and people put it off.
• 10:42
  Esther Garnick: And then eventually, once they kind of feel like their closet is eating them alive and they can't seem to find a single thing to wear, that's where I come in and we tackle it section by section.
• 10:53
  Esther Garnick: A lot of the times, I I call it addition by subtraction because once you really start to pair back the closet and see what's really in there, sometimes you might find that you've been buying the same black shirt with, you know, just different variations of the same thing over and over again.
• 11:10
  Esther Garnick: Oops, oops.
• 11:12
  Esther Garnick: Did I nail it?
• 11:12
  Esther Garnick: Did I nail it?
• 11:13
  Esther Garnick: You see.
• 11:14
  Esther Garnick: And I think that sometimes just having to come and face that kind of gives you a sense of, okay, what do I need beyond this black shirt?
• 11:25
  Esther Garnick: And how do I diversify my wardrobe a little bit?
• 11:28
  Esther Garnick: And how do I build a wardrobe that is actually going to be a high-functioning wardrobe for me?
• 11:35
  Esther Garnick: And so first I do the addition by subtraction.
• 11:38
  Esther Garnick: We kind of look at what works.
• 11:39
  Esther Garnick: I make everyone try things on.
• 11:42
  Esther Garnick: And it's so funny because sometimes people are like a little bashful at first, like changing into their pants in front of me.
• 11:47
  Esther Garnick: And by the end, like everything's hanging out and it's like a full kiki.
• 11:51
  Esther Garnick: But the truth of the matter is, some people hold on to things for emotional reasons, not just like bandwidth.
• 11:57
  Esther Garnick: It could just be like, oh, I'll get into those genes again.
• 12:01
  Esther Garnick: But it's so true.
• 12:02
  Esther Garnick: Our bodies change, and we can't punish ourselves by holding on to something that even if it did fit again, would fit differently because your body changes for every reason imaginable.
• 12:17
  Esther Garnick: And I'll just throw this one out.
• 12:20
  Esther Garnick: Sometimes that thing you're holding on to that's a size you haven't been in 12 years, even if you could fit into it again, you wouldn't reach for it anyway because maybe the rise on that pant is the size of a baby carrot.
• 12:32
  Esther Garnick: And it's like we're not wearing those pants anymore.
• 12:35
  Esther Garnick: We're not wearing those low riders to the club anymore.
• 12:38
  Esther Garnick: We got a job to go to it.
• 12:41
  Jen LaForge: Things come back differently.
• 12:43
  Jen LaForge: Okay, let's talk about that then.
• 12:44
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 12:44
  Jen LaForge: Because that I I already hear people justifying right now.
• 12:48
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, things come back differently.
• 12:51
  Esther Garnick: So the bell bottoms that your mom wore in the 70s are not the same wide leg pant that you see today.
• 13:02
  Esther Garnick: They're inspired by, but they're not the same.
• 13:05
  Esther Garnick: And there are certain things that definitely are archival, like works of art, pieces that you should hang on to and pass down generation to generation.
• 13:16
  Esther Garnick: Maybe it's a special bag or coat, certainly jewelry, like all of that can kind of transcend time and space.
• 13:27
  Esther Garnick: I feel like those pair of jeans that you've been hanging on to for 20 years, like that skinny leg, it might come back a little more of a straight leg, but those elasticized jeggings with the low rise of the, you know, of the aughts.
• 13:47
  Esther Garnick: I mean, even if they threaten to come back, nished.
• 13:50
  Esther Garnick: No, no, we're not doing that.
• 13:52
  Esther Garnick: I did get rid of all of those.
• 13:54
  Esther Garnick: And how liberating, right?
• 13:55
  Esther Garnick: You're like, I don't even know what they're doing here.
• 13:58
  Jen LaForge: It was it was liberating, but then there's the other part.
• 14:01
  Jen LaForge: And you you touched on what you said, I always make people try the things on.
• 14:05
  Esther Garnick: Everything must go on.
• 14:06
  Jen LaForge: Because I'll try something on and it looks terrible.
• 14:09
  Jen LaForge: And then someone who has far more fashionable sense than me comes in and does this tweak, tweak, tuck, tuck, whatever, suddenly I look fantastic because it's been styled.
• 14:18
  Esther Garnick: Okay.
• 14:19
  Esther Garnick: That is definitely true about just a fresh lens.
• 14:24
  Esther Garnick: Having someone come in.
• 14:25
  Esther Garnick: For me, if I'm going into a client's closet, something that they're tired of that I've just, you know, asked them to try on and they're like, I don't know, these probably should go right.
• 14:35
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Esther Garnick: I'm seeing them for the first time.
• 14:37
  Esther Garnick: So I'll be able to look at them with a fresh pair of eyes and go, actually, maybe we just need to wear them differently.
• 14:46
  Esther Garnick: Maybe we need to wear them casually instead of, you know, maybe a little bit more formally.
• 14:52
  Esther Garnick: Maybe that pair of pants that you thought was like a trouser pant that you would wear to the office is sort of looking a little different on you, but maybe it looks good casually.
• 15:02
  Esther Garnick: It's just a tweak and an adjustment of the lens.
• 15:06
  Esther Garnick: And then also just, like you said, styling around that functional item.
• 15:13
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 15:13
  Jen LaForge: So the the next big question I had on this one, this was from earlier.
• 15:16
  Jen LaForge: I've been holding this ever since.
• 15:18
  Jen LaForge: Oh, it's gonna be good.
• 15:19
  Jen LaForge: Um, so I am a very curious person, so I fall into a lot of the traps on the doom scrolling and that around things.
• 15:26
  Jen LaForge: And one of the things that I'm super curious about, by practice my restraint on my curiosity, is this idea of an archetype.
• 15:34
  Jen LaForge: I've been seeing it everywhere and a lot of of promotions for capsule wardrobes and things like that.
• 15:42
  Jen LaForge: We've got the closet cleared out, and um now we're ready to start figuring out how to style, wear, change, buy.
• 15:52
  Jen LaForge: Should we know what our archetype is?
• 15:55
  Jen LaForge: Like, what is that?
• 15:56
  Jen LaForge: And should I know?
• 15:58
  Esther Garnick: No.
• 15:58
  Esther Garnick: I mean, I'm gonna say flat out no.
• 16:01
  Esther Garnick: Everybody is different.
• 16:03
  Esther Garnick: I mean, I'm sure in the marketing world, like people that work in departments that are all about demographics, like the that's for them.
• 16:14
  Esther Garnick: Every single person has their own identity.
• 16:19
  Esther Garnick: And there's probably some part of them that's like, I would really like to be this woman, but most days I'm this woman.
• 16:27
  Esther Garnick: That doesn't mean that you can't reach for something that's a little outside of who you are, as long as you can make it work with what you own so that it doesn't sort of end up collecting dust as some kind of like fantasy item and you're too intimidated to wear it.
• 16:47
  Esther Garnick: So, like, take that intimidation away or take that sort of like marketing language away and just think about how you want to present yourself.
• 16:56
  Esther Garnick: And every room is different.
• 16:58
  Esther Garnick: What you wear to the office, Jen, is maybe not what you're gonna wear to the your friend's birthday party at the sexy restaurant.
• 17:07
  Esther Garnick: So, like you can be both women and have things in your wardrobe that serve both sides of you or many sides of you.
• 17:17
  Esther Garnick: We all have many sides.
• 17:19
  Jen LaForge: Thank you for that because I am 27 different women.
• 17:21
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 17:22
  Jen LaForge: At least based on my wardrobe.
• 17:23
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 17:24
  Jen LaForge: At any rate.
• 17:25
  Jen LaForge: So thank you.
• 17:25
  Jen LaForge: Thank you.
• 17:26
  Jen LaForge: We don't have to define a style or who we are and what we're allowed to wear.
• 17:30
  Jen LaForge: And can we agree, Esther, that like when you said that it works, the KPI, because I'm still a nerd.
• 17:36
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, let's get nerd.
• 17:37
  Jen LaForge: The KPI on it works is that you feel good in it.
• 17:40
  Esther Garnick: It's how you stand in those clothes.
• 17:43
  Esther Garnick: I actually had a client say this, so I wish I could take credit for it because it was the most beautiful phrase and summary of what I'm trying to communicate.
• 17:52
  Esther Garnick: The body doesn't lie.
• 17:54
  Esther Garnick: When you put something on and you look in the mirror, are you standing like, are you are you shrinking?
• 18:02
  Esther Garnick: Are you kind of tugging and fussing?
• 18:04
  Esther Garnick: Are you trying to convince yourself?
• 18:06
  Esther Garnick: Are you looking to be convinced?
• 18:08
  Esther Garnick: Because those are typically signs that it's not for you.
• 18:12
  Esther Garnick: When you put something on and your shoulders go back and you stand a little taller, feel it, and you kind of feel like powerful.
• 18:18
  Esther Garnick: And I don't mean like 80s power dressing like Angela Bauer of the Bauer Agency, like big old like you don't need a big shouldered suit to feel masculine in.
• 18:29
  Esther Garnick: You just need to, when you put that garment on, whatever it is, it could literally be an accessory.
• 18:34
  Esther Garnick: It could be, I love a sunglass.
• 18:36
  Esther Garnick: Die for a sunglass because it's transformative.
• 18:39
  Esther Garnick: That white t-shirt, you could put on a pair of sunglasses.
• 18:43
  Esther Garnick: And by the way, those sunglasses could be $19.
• 18:45
  Esther Garnick: And all of a sudden, you're like, I'm a star.
• 18:48
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 18:49
  Esther Garnick: So I feel like the body doesn't lie was the perfect explanation.
• 18:56
  Esther Garnick: So look at how you receive that thing that you put on your body, and just notice how your body changes and adjusts when you look at your reflection.
• 19:06
  Esther Garnick: And obviously, there are cases where some people are just like a little shyer about trying things.
• 19:12
  Esther Garnick: It really, you'll know when that thing is for you and it really boils down to fit, which I think people don't focus on enough, and how confident you feel in how you stand.
• 19:24
  Jen LaForge: I feel like watching Queer Eye is a great visual for this because you see the individuals at the start of the episode and then the end when they lock in their new outfits and they're new people.
• 19:34
  Esther Garnick: And they're like, all of a sudden they're Beyoncé, the win machine is going.
• 19:37
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 19:38
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 19:38
  Esther Garnick: And they just are different people.
• 19:40
  Esther Garnick: But everyone can feel, I mean, listen, this is my thesis anyway.
• 19:44
  Esther Garnick: It's like anyone of any budget can feel that way in a wardrobe that elevates them, that lifts them up.
• 19:55
  Esther Garnick: Well, you just said the magic word.
• 19:56
  Esther Garnick: Is it budget?
• 19:57
  Esther Garnick: You did.
• 19:58
  Esther Garnick: The B word.
• 19:59
  Jen LaForge: The B word.
• 19:59
  Jen LaForge: Because the next big question and where I want to go is quality over quantity.
• 20:03
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 20:04
  Jen LaForge: And this was a big learning curve for me in terms I don't need a hundred pieces.
• 20:08
  Jen LaForge: I need three really good pieces.
• 20:10
  Jen LaForge: And so I think where I'd like to go is let's do a run through.
• 20:15
  Jen LaForge: So we've done the purge.
• 20:16
  Jen LaForge: We have tried our clothes on.
• 20:19
  Jen LaForge: We tweaked them, we tweaked them.
• 20:22
  Jen LaForge: We've, you know, we're, we know what, what, what's worked, what we like, what we don't.
• 20:26
  Jen LaForge: We know now we don't have to define ourselves into a bucket and stick to it.
• 20:30
  Jen LaForge: Now we're ready to now add to it and really define our style.
• 20:35
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 20:36
  Jen LaForge: Well, that's a lot of money in clothes, or it's a lot of clothes for a little money.
• 20:41
  Jen LaForge: How do you determine when you're investing in a piece and when you can, you know, go on that shanhole and just grab some stuff?
• 20:50
  Esther Garnick: I'm about, I really am about cost per wear as a value system.
• 20:55
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 20:56
  Esther Garnick: I think that, you know, again, value looks different and budgets vary, you know, household to household.
• 21:04
  Esther Garnick: And it's also sometimes I'm working with a very successful woman who earns a high salary, but she's just not comfortable spending a lot of money on clothes because that's just not where her mind is at.
• 21:16
  Esther Garnick: So it really does boil down to like your comfort level.
• 21:20
  Esther Garnick: But what I would say is you can invest whatever that means to you, whatever a good amount of money means to you, you can invest in another B-word that people make a swear word is basics.
• 21:34
  Esther Garnick: Like, why do people think that basics is like such a swear?
• 21:38
  Esther Garnick: I think that I have jackets older than my kids because they're just like a timeless shape, a good quality made item.
• 21:49
  Esther Garnick: I also live in Canada, so do you.
• 21:52
  Esther Garnick: Like, I'm not gonna be spending my life savings on a sandal I can wear twice in a season and possibly hate the year later because they are no longer they're too trendy.
• 22:05
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 22:05
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Esther Garnick: I'm going to look for fundamental basics that are going to stay with me for as long as I take care of them.
• 22:14
  Esther Garnick: And then I can, let's call it, decorate around those basics with trends at a lesser price point.
• 22:22
  Esther Garnick: And that's a system I like.
• 22:26
  Esther Garnick: And I also think that when it comes to, and I mentioned it earlier, when it comes to kind of like special pieces, I like to go the consignment route because it also promotes a little individuality.
• 22:38
  Esther Garnick: So you can find that one of one piece at a lesser price point than when it was originally released on the runway.
• 22:46
  Esther Garnick: And you can kind of feel good about, okay, I got this at a great price point.
• 22:52
  Esther Garnick: And not every girl on the internet, which is a whole other like Jen, how much time do we have?
• 22:58
  Esther Garnick: Because I feel like MBA carrying women have been tricked by these algorithms where everyone is making these panicked purchases and spending way too much money on things that they don't even know if they like, but they feel like they're panicked like if I don't get this, I'm going to be unstylish, uncool, I'm going to look like a fuddy duddy, whatever it is.
• 23:21
  Esther Garnick: And then like everyone just like put the brakes on, understand that the creator economy exists all around us.
• 23:29
  Esther Garnick: And I'm for it.
• 23:30
  Esther Garnick: I'm like get your money girls and boys that sell us things on the internet, but be a little more conscious of the fact that like they get paid if you panic click.
• 23:41
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 23:42
  Esther Garnick: So anyway, this is we've gone on many side quests here, but I'm like spend in basics I think that are going to serve you season over season over season.
• 23:53
  Esther Garnick: You will never regret a good cashmere crew neck.
• 23:56
  Esther Garnick: You will never regret a good wool coat.
• 23:58
  Esther Garnick: You will never regret a really beautiful fit of denim that is not too trendy but fits you really well.
• 24:10
  Jen LaForge: And then you can go all around all of those like $10 black shirts I have, would I have been better off in investing in like one really good high quality I have to see the shirt.
• 24:23
  Esther Garnick: I have to see the shirt.
• 24:24
  Esther Garnick: But I also feel like there's a misconception that quality means expensive.
• 24:30
  Esther Garnick: Sometimes break that down really expensive things are manufactured I'm like where's my camera?
• 24:37
  Esther Garnick: Tell me more sometimes really expensive things are manufactured in the same warehouse as that fast fashion brand but what you're paying for is a logo.
• 24:50
  Esther Garnick: Now I don't expect everyone to spend their days and evenings studying up on this but what I can say is even on the Racketon app, like there are tons of stores to shop from that provide quality items at a much let's say friendlier price point.
• 25:13
  Esther Garnick: And it doesn't mean that you know you're going to get a lesser thing because you didn't buy that super expensive cashmere sweater from wherever when there's a perfectly good one at Uniqlo for a fraction of the price on Rockerton.
• 25:32
  Esther Garnick: Thank you with cash back.
• 25:34
  Jen LaForge: With cash back.
• 25:34
  Jen LaForge: This girl's good she's good you're hired.
• 25:36
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 25:37
  Jen LaForge: Um I love that and I want to vouch um to everything you said because it was and I did the math while you were talking 24 years ago I bought a suit jacket.
• 25:47
  Jen LaForge: I still wear it.
• 25:48
  Jen LaForge: It's still my favorite jacket.
• 25:50
  Jen LaForge: It has been timeless and it has just worked so well.
• 25:54
  Jen LaForge: And I have a bunch of other jackets that I've bought in between that I've thrown out because I thought what was I thinking right but the same suit jacket for 24 years.
• 26:04
  Esther Garnick: I think that I've never met a woman who hired me to help rebuild their wardrobe that regretted good tailoring.
• 26:14
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 26:14
  Esther Garnick: A good blazer because even if you don't work in an office environment a blazer is just a solver.
• 26:20
  Esther Garnick: And it is good I think to spend a little bit of money on a well-tailored blazer.
• 26:27
  Esther Garnick: I think that that belongs in every closet and you will have it for years to come.
• 26:34
  Esther Garnick: There are different shapes and silhouettes that come out as the trends shift.
• 26:38
  Esther Garnick: But again I feel like there are really good options at a friendlier price point that you can experiment with trend.
• 26:45
  Esther Garnick: And I even was thinking about your coat that you've had for 24 years.
• 26:50
  Esther Garnick: I'm like cool great you know what happens things scarves are back.
• 26:54
  Esther Garnick: Silk scarves are back.
• 26:55
  Esther Garnick: Get a silk scarf put it with your 24 year old blazer and all of a sudden it's new broaches.
• 27:03
  Esther Garnick: Okay, let's get a brooch from you know a friendly price point retailer.
• 27:09
  Esther Garnick: Throw that brooch on all of a sudden it becomes a different blazer like there are things you can do to kind of move towards trends that don't require you to burn down a perfectly good wardrobe.
• 27:24
  Esther Garnick: But having said that I feel like sometimes people overlook the idea of fit and it's like even if you spent good money on that thing, if it doesn't fit you properly, if it is making you uncomfortable, if you cannot sit down, if these are standing jeans, I don't care if you spent $500 on them, they need to be consigned because there is another pair of jeans for you out there and we've just got to like let go of what we spent if they do not fit.
• 27:55
  Esther Garnick: And listen there are very talented saleswomen working in these stores.
• 27:59
  Esther Garnick: And these content creators again they know what they're doing.
• 28:04
  Esther Garnick: They're trying to appeal to you using words like if you buy one thing or here is the only things you need.
• 28:11
  Esther Garnick: And then all of a sudden you panic, you're like, oh my God, I don't have any of these things.
• 28:14
  Esther Garnick: If I don't buy them immediately I'm going to be the biggest loser.
• 28:17
  Esther Garnick: And everyone's going to know that I'm the big huge loser because I don't have these things.
• 28:20
  Esther Garnick: And the truth of the matter is I'm not even sure that that woman that sold you that thing on the internet is wearing what she's selling.
• 28:27
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 28:27
  Jen LaForge: She gave it up she's getting paid she's getting that bag.
• 28:30
  Jen LaForge: So um he makes segueing so easy because this is such a perfect entry point to talk about the emotional side again and those triggers and those things that make us do things that we wouldn't normally do or we don't want to do or regret doing.
• 28:45
  Jen LaForge: Like listening to an influencer and those keywords saying you have to you're nothing if you don't you know I mean that's not what they're saying but that's what we're here with.
• 28:53
  Jen LaForge: That's what we're hearing.
• 28:54
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 28:55
  Jen LaForge: But there's also Bogo buy one get one there is you were $7.21 away from free shipping.
• 29:02
  Esther Garnick: Oh my God that is such a good trick by the way it works every time like the retailers that came up with that I'm like whoever I would have loved to have been in that meeting.
• 29:11
  Esther Garnick: I would have loved to have thought of it.
• 29:13
  Esther Garnick: It really is ingenious because it's like what $7.91 item exists on this website?
• 29:19
  Esther Garnick: Zero percent.
• 29:20
  Esther Garnick: So now I'm going to spend another $200 but I feel like I've earned my free shipping now.
• 29:25
  Esther Garnick: Oh yeah.
• 29:26
  Esther Garnick: So I'm savvy.
• 29:27
  Esther Garnick: It is such a good trick but it'll get us every time there is a lot to say about sort of the emotional side of purchasing.
• 29:35
  Esther Garnick: And by the way I think that there are positive emotions that come from you know knowing you got something or you pulled the trigger on something that is something you've coveted, something that's right for you, something you're excited to wear, something that you are like, I know where I'm wearing this.
• 29:52
  Esther Garnick: I feel like there is that's that's such a positive dopamine hit.
• 29:57
  Esther Garnick: And I am for shopping because if I wasn't I'd be terrible at my job.
• 30:02
  Esther Garnick: But I think that the idea of focusing on fit, focusing on functionality like really in your life because again even a sale item can be of no use to you if you're never going to wear it IRL.
• 30:17
  Esther Garnick: And I think that shopping should be one of those experiences that you feel like you are rewarding yourself with something really great and something nice that is going to make you and it all comes back to the confidence element.
• 30:33
  Esther Garnick: If it's going to make you feel confident you deserve it get it.
• 30:36
  Esther Garnick: If you bought it because you were in a panicked place and you needed something or you felt like oh my God I have something coming up and I'm just going to order 75 things hopefully something works.
• 30:51
  Esther Garnick: None of them work and I run out of time and I can't even return them.
• 30:55
  Esther Garnick: That is a bad place to be in and people start to feel like really crummy about themselves if they put themselves in that situation.
• 31:01
  Esther Garnick: So I think that when it comes to emotional purchasing I think it's almost worth it to just kind of go, okay, let me just try some restraint here and ask yourself like do I really need this thing?
• 31:17
  Esther Garnick: Do I really want this thing?
• 31:18
  Esther Garnick: Does this thing work for the life I have does this thing work with other things in my closet where can I see myself going in this?
• 31:26
  Esther Garnick: And then once it arrives at your house, if we're talking about an online purchase, I mean I like to advise everybody to make sure that you can get at least a store credit or a refund when you're shopping for things online because it feels terrible to be stuck with something that you're now like can't do anything with.
• 31:44
  Esther Garnick: I would say like make sure that the fit and feel of that garment is a hundred percent for you.
• 31:53
  Jen LaForge: Perfect for you.
• 31:54
  Jen LaForge: So going back to you just said that big emotional haul and this is like a personal learning through my journey is when I started spending more money on quality pieces.
• 32:05
  Jen LaForge: I remember walking out the store and the feeling of guilt and the oh my God I just spent how much on that and like I better wear this and what if it you know all of those feelings that felt exactly the same as looking at that pile of clothes that costs the same amount of money but I thought I was getting more and being smart because I got 20 pieces but none of them fit.
• 32:31
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 32:31
  Jen LaForge: And so I think that there's a trans emotion when it comes to the emotional side there's going to be that transition where you're going to feel it but it's the same as fear and excitement.
• 32:41
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 32:42
  Jen LaForge: But the same feeling.
• 32:43
  Esther Garnick: Well there are two right the excitement comes if you because sometimes it's almost like changing a habit right and moving towards let's call it investment buying instead of buying the most for the least that's a total change of behavior.
• 33:03
  Esther Garnick: You almost have to retrain your brain.
• 33:05
  Esther Garnick: But again like sometimes we're trying to do whatever is being prescribed to us and what I'm hearing is I'm I hope that you are so happy with all of the pieces that you invested in and I hope you got tons of wear out of them and tons of compliments too.
• 33:25
  Esther Garnick: But I feel like sometimes it's okay to just be like I don't have to go all in I don't have to like blow a hole in my bank account right away I can kind of start to just like look into okay where should I be spending am I comfortable spending this amount of money on whatever it is and maybe instead of buying a $120 t-shirt maybe there's a really good t-shirt out there for $19 that I can pair back to that quality blazer that I just purchased for $800 or whatever it is.
• 34:05
  Esther Garnick: So I am also a big like I live my life in the high low lane.
• 34:11
  Esther Garnick: I feel like when you buy something and you know you've spent a little bit more money than you normally would, it can feel like heart palpitation like what I just do.
• 34:22
  Esther Garnick: Yep.
• 34:23
  Esther Garnick: Yep.
• 34:23
  Esther Garnick: But then it's nice to know okay that great piece is going to last me for a very long time.
• 34:29
  Esther Garnick: But I can also it's not against the rules to wear that really expensive piece with something that cost me less money.
• 34:38
  Esther Garnick: I feel like how do I say this without sounding negative but I feel like I have never come across a woman and listen the real housewives are out there for you to watch I have never seen a woman who I looked at and I was like her outfit is $30,000 and that makes her more fashionable than me.
• 34:56
  Esther Garnick: In fact a lot of the times most expensive does not mean most style most expensive means like most something.
• 35:04
  Esther Garnick: Yeah we all have words in our head right now.
• 35:07
  Esther Garnick: Right.
• 35:07
  Esther Garnick: It's like you're trying to tell me something and that has more to do with you than communicating I have good style.
• 35:15
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 35:16
  Esther Garnick: So I feel like the most stylish people I see out in the world are people that really know how to dress for their body but also you kind of have to look twice and go, I wonder where she got that.
• 35:32
  Esther Garnick: Like it's not you know it's not screaming in your face.
• 35:36
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 35:36
  Esther Garnick: Which you know with logos or you know where it's from.
• 35:40
  Jen LaForge: Yeah you make me think of the 90s where what was at the butt of all those pants?
• 35:43
  Jen LaForge: Juicy iconic.
• 35:46
  Esther Garnick: Yeah everybody had a juicy bum back in the if you didn't have a juicy bum like what even were you doing with your lace?
• 35:52
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 35:53
  Esther Garnick: I don't think I ever had a juicy bum.
• 35:56
  Esther Garnick: I definitely didn't have the tracksuit but if I didn't have a Von Dutch hat I mean I had to participate.
• 36:03
  Esther Garnick: But I also feel like that's a good way I'm like even back then I was like okay I'm not going all in on the juicy couture tracksuit.
• 36:09
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 36:10
  Esther Garnick: Cute.
• 36:10
  Esther Garnick: I'll get the Ugs and I'll wear a von Dutch hat and I'll just like be part of it without going all the way.
• 36:18
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 36:19
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 36:19
  Esther Garnick: I like that.
• 36:20
  Esther Garnick: Yeah that's a good tip.
• 36:21
  Esther Garnick: So I still have those Ugs, you know?
• 36:23
  Esther Garnick: Really?
• 36:24
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Esther Garnick: Okay.
• 36:25
  Esther Garnick: Yeah I do.
• 36:26
  Esther Garnick: They stink, but I still have them.
• 36:28
  Esther Garnick: It's been like 20 years.
• 36:30
  Jen LaForge: Is there an emotional hold on those ones?
• 36:32
  Esther Garnick: No, I actually feel like in my life now as a mom and a dog mom too I'm like those uggs are pure function.
• 36:42
  Esther Garnick: They go on my feet they're warm they're salt stained.
• 36:45
  Esther Garnick: If I need to get something you know if I need to walk the dog around the block quickly on a horrible you know gross weather day they're there for me.
• 36:57
  Esther Garnick: I'm not walking my dog in my Italian leather loafers on the rainy day.
• 37:03
  Esther Garnick: I will I have been known to say that dog walk is catwalk though.
• 37:07
  Esther Garnick: And it's nice to even treat your dog walks with like put yourself together for those if you're not going to an office.
• 37:15
  Esther Garnick: It's nice to strut down the street and be like yeah I got it.
• 37:18
  Esther Garnick: I feel like the bare minimum there is just real pants.
• 37:21
  Esther Garnick: Yeah it could be it doesn't even need to be a hard pant yeah it could just be like a clean pant.
• 37:26
  Jen LaForge: Yeah maybe one that doesn't have 12 different colors and all your favorite cartoon characters.
• 37:31
  Esther Garnick: If you slept in the pants, take them off.
• 37:33
  Esther Garnick: That's a good rule.
• 37:34
  Esther Garnick: Take them off put on a different pair of pants make sure they're clean walk that dog with pride.
• 37:39
  Esther Garnick: But if you feel like your dog is ashamed to be on that walk with you you're in the wrong outfit.
• 37:44
  Jen LaForge: Let's also be clear though if you want to wear the pants wear the pants.
• 37:46
  Jen LaForge: We're not telling them what to do with their life.
• 37:48
  Esther Garnick: I mean I'm saying like this is just if you are open to a suggestion this would be mine.
• 37:55
  Esther Garnick: See how it feels see how you stand.
• 37:59
  Jen LaForge: So talking about the feels um there are just some women who and I'm I'm probably one of them I don't love shopping.
• 38:07
  Jen LaForge: I don't love trying on clothes.
• 38:09
  Jen LaForge: I'm not particularly good.
• 38:11
  Jen LaForge: I know I I there's a time and a place for it but I'm I'm really busy and it takes a lot of time to do that and then to figure out how to style them and then you know which ones are dry clean.
• 38:21
  Jen LaForge: So there's also decision fatigue which is a real thing especially when you know you're you're making a lot of really big hard decisions every day.
• 38:30
  Jen LaForge: So what all of these things that you are sharing with us, these tips and and knowledge bites, does that apply to a capsule wardrobe?
• 38:38
  Esther Garnick: Yeah if that's what serves your life right if you're going to be like I am someone who suffers from decision fatigue and I just need to know that I've got four pairs of pants and three shirts I don't want that for you.
• 38:50
  Esther Garnick: But if you're like this is going to actually make my life easier then do that.
• 38:55
  Esther Garnick: And then the only thing I would say is play with like a tunable level of creativity with your accessories around that capsule.
• 39:04
  Esther Garnick: So like to me when it comes to sunglasses I wear I mean for me for sure it's sunglasses.
• 39:11
  Esther Garnick: But shoes, sunglasses like the limit does not exist and you don't have to spend a ton of money but if you have a capsule wardrobe you can make it look so different.
• 39:21
  Esther Garnick: Again I'm not saying anything revolutionary here but it really does make such a difference.
• 39:26
  Esther Garnick: I could wear the same white t-shirt and if I change my sunglasses if I change my shoes if I cuff my jean instead of wearing it all the way down I have a different look.
• 39:37
  Esther Garnick: So you can kind of play with what you have if you don't want to like exhaust yourself with options in your closet.
• 39:47
  Jen LaForge: You brought back out of nowhere a really fun memory of uh long time ago I worked at Expedia.
• 39:53
  Jen LaForge: There was this wonderful group of girls there and they would do clothing swaps.
• 39:57
  Jen LaForge: Have you heard of a clothing swap?
• 39:59
  Esther Garnick: Of course.
• 40:00
  Esther Garnick: Well I don't know if I could say this on the podcast but we called it a switch.
• 40:04
  Esther Garnick: I think that it's the same thing.
• 40:07
  Esther Garnick: It's like you get together it's kind of like like the Tupperware parties of old but now it's like we're swapping clothes so that we kind of find, you know, new treasure that somebody else is tired of and swap it.
• 40:23
  Jen LaForge: I feel like that's also helps with the purge helps with the new perspective seeing it for the first time helps with the style and also helps make it really fun because it's it's pretty stressful.
• 40:33
  Esther Garnick: Like I think that is a fun thing that you can do and it costs nothing but maybe a bottle of wine to like have a good time with.
• 40:42
  Esther Garnick: I mean I feel like that's one way to do it.
• 40:46
  Esther Garnick: I like consignment shopping for that reason too.
• 40:49
  Esther Garnick: It's like you're selling stuff that doesn't belong with you anymore or never did you're letting it go.
• 40:56
  Esther Garnick: But then you're also like receiving money back for those items that you can then put towards someone else's item that didn't work for them.
• 41:05
  Esther Garnick: And or maybe they just loved it so much that they're like I think we've seen our last bit of time together go live a new life.
• 41:12
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 41:13
  Esther Garnick: Shirt.
• 41:14
  Esther Garnick: You know?
• 41:14
  Jen LaForge: Or maybe it helps to fund that maybe higher quality investment piece or go intowards.
• 41:22
  Esther Garnick: Right.
• 41:22
  Esther Garnick: It's it's your personal Kickstarter campaign.
• 41:25
  Esther Garnick: 100% there are so many benefits to it and it's also cyclical not to mention it's sustainable.
• 41:31
  Esther Garnick: I mean I'm so pro that but yeah I mean I think that the reason that people when people tell me I hate shopping or it's like not good for me is just because they've had too many experiences that made them feel bad instead of excited or good.
• 41:52
  Esther Garnick: I also because I have to be sure to say do not put yourself in debt for clothing.
• 41:59
  Esther Garnick: Do not put yourself in debt for the latest anything because no matter how confident you stand, if that if the creditors start calling you garbage.
• 42:12
  Esther Garnick: And so there is a smarter way to shop and I always say like shop within obviously your means but you don't always need to buy a new wardrobe like a complete new wardrobe season over season.
• 42:28
  Esther Garnick: Building a wardrobe should be something you look forward to doing and it should be something that is ongoing.
• 42:35
  Esther Garnick: But I understand obviously we consume differently now than we did, you know, generations ago we're kind of buying things not just for one season but we're kind of buying them for the mood we're in or we're reacting to something.
• 42:51
  Esther Garnick: So it does take a little bit of practice to kind of like change your behavior to the idea of building a wardrobe and not just accumulating stuff.
• 43:00
  Esther Garnick: And then when you do finally feel like you understand how to wear your clothes and your clothes can be like relied upon to make you feel better or make you feel great or make you feel feel powerful, confident, fun, whatever you whatever the outcome is is it sexy?
• 43:19
  Esther Garnick: Is it feminine is it strong?
• 43:21
  Esther Garnick: Go into your closet and if you're like I can rely on my closet to give me back what I need to feel today it's an amazing feeling.
• 43:30
  Jen LaForge: It is and those thousands of dollars like in your your first story that's seven hours the thousands of dollars you can sorry Carly I'm telling everybody.
• 43:38
  Jen LaForge: It's okay but now we know your name's Carly Yeah we're going to find you yeah the Jane should be on rack at end she'd better be she well I hope so.
• 43:48
  Jen LaForge: Yeah that's well that's a good segue because I was going to talk about that thousands of dollars um you could use that to I would say if you're really struggling here invest in someone like you who specialize And has so much joy and strong values around empowering women through their outfits.
• 44:04
  Jen LaForge: Thank you for fixing that Jen.
• 44:06
  Jen LaForge: So first do that.
• 44:08
  Esther Garnick: Do that.
• 44:08
  Jen LaForge: And then that's gonna save you more money over time.
• 44:11
  Esther Garnick: No, truly, it's the thing I hear over and over again is that I am actually, it's kind of like a wardrobe therapist in a way.
• 44:19
  Esther Garnick: It's like I am saving people a lot of money and also preventing so much waste and panicked purchases are never it's never a good feeling.
• 44:33
  Esther Garnick: So to kind of have me come in and sort of help shift the behavior and move towards fit and, you know, creating a wardrobe that's high functioning, I think it is overall like the right investment if someone is just kind of shopping without any rhyme or reason and still feels like they have nothing to wear, but their closet is caving in on itself.
• 45:00
  Jen LaForge: Caving in.
• 45:01
  Jen LaForge: Me a couple of years ago, you are an investment.
• 45:03
  Jen LaForge: Uh couple last questions I want to touch on because in the loyalty space, when I when I try and think about like the best loyalty program within apparel, I can't think of one.
• 45:14
  Jen LaForge: The best loyalty program with apparel?
• 45:17
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 45:17
  Jen LaForge: Is there an apparel brand that has a strong loyalty program?
• 45:21
  Jen LaForge: I can't think of one.
• 45:23
  Esther Garnick: I mean, I just heard this the other day, and it's not the same, but it's the first thing that popped into my head.
• 45:30
  Esther Garnick: Okay, so the gap started doing this thing reportedly.
• 45:35
  Esther Garnick: I haven't actually seen it, but it was reported the gap started doing this thing where instead of using like outside influencers exclusively to sell their stuff, they started giving their employees incentives to like post and share and sell and make an affiliate on the clothes that the gap sells so that they could almost like earn in addition to their so they could become sort of in-house influencers.
• 46:06
  Esther Garnick: Different question, probably.
• 46:08
  Esther Garnick: Um but that's the only thing available for your brain to reach because there isn't any.
• 46:12
  Esther Garnick: I'm not, I can't find, I can't think of one.
• 46:15
  Esther Garnick: But I was like, ooh, that was smart that the gap did that also on Racketton.
• 46:18
  Esther Garnick: Yes, yes.
• 46:20
  Jen LaForge: Um, and they do have their their old Navy has like the dollars.
• 46:23
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, maybe come back in two weeks and you have Navy cash.
• 46:27
  Jen LaForge: There's a few things there.
• 46:28
  Jen LaForge: So just you know, selfish plug.
• 46:30
  Jen LaForge: That's why you go to Rackton, because you can get loyalty cash back percentage on your apparel clothing.
• 46:35
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, I thought you were leading me there, and I'm like, maybe there's she's like really concerned that there's no loyalty.
• 46:41
  Esther Garnick: I mean, I actually I'm like, it is the first thing I thought of, but I was like, she can't really be asking me.
• 46:47
  Esther Garnick: But I'll I will say, I will say, okay, that I think initially people are like, well, what's the trick on Racketton?
• 46:56
  Esther Garnick: And it's always hilarious because I have this conversation with people since the days that Esther has the podcast when we would talk about Racketton.
• 47:03
  Esther Garnick: I'm like, no, it's there is no trick.
• 47:04
  Esther Garnick: It's just that simple.
• 47:06
  Esther Garnick: You're spending the money anyway at these retailers.
• 47:10
  Esther Garnick: If you shop through the app, you get cash back.
• 47:13
  Esther Garnick: And sometimes it's like 13%, sometimes it's 2%, but it's never 0%.
• 47:18
  Esther Garnick: Never zero.
• 47:19
  Esther Garnick: So it's just, I think it's I think it's ingenious.
• 47:22
  Esther Garnick: I feel like, and I'm happy to see that it's grown so much and that the retailers on there are so sexy.
• 47:30
  Jen LaForge: We were talking about this earlier.
• 47:31
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 47:31
  Jen LaForge: So I wasn't gonna go there.
• 47:32
  Jen LaForge: I was dropping a little selfish plug there.
• 47:34
  Jen LaForge: Uh-huh.
• 47:35
  Jen LaForge: But the main put, but so that's why I love you.
• 47:37
  Jen LaForge: Because thank you for that.
• 47:38
  Jen LaForge: But where I was gonna go was outside of that, I can't think of other ways to save within apparel shopping.
• 47:45
  Jen LaForge: I can be smarter on my spend.
• 47:47
  Jen LaForge: Right.
• 47:47
  Jen LaForge: But maybe is there other ways that you could think of that?
• 47:51
  Jen LaForge: To save on save on your your new wardrobe or your curation or your n your apparel?
• 47:57
  Esther Garnick: Like what are other I was raised to never pay full price at retail.
• 48:01
  Esther Garnick: So that's just let's start there.
• 48:03
  Esther Garnick: I will say sometimes you have to because you're just like, I don't want to miss out on this thing, or I don't want, but I would say because there is no specific sales season anymore.
• 48:16
  Esther Garnick: I feel like retailers are now, it's so competitive out there, especially the boutiques.
• 48:21
  Esther Garnick: Like I love the independent boutique experience, even if it's an e-tailer.
• 48:27
  Esther Garnick: Um, but I feel like sales come up.
• 48:30
  Esther Garnick: So sometimes look for um retailers that will allow you to build a wish list.
• 48:36
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 48:37
  Esther Garnick: And then sometimes instead of just getting so seduced by a sale item just because it's less expensive, if you've kind of been building your wish lists at these different retailers, when you see that thing on sale, execute.
• 48:53
  Esther Garnick: And then you've saved because you were wanting it anyway.
• 48:56
  Esther Garnick: You were probably gonna buy it at full price if it didn't go on sale.
• 49:01
  Esther Garnick: But now you've been able to kind of like practice that restraint a little bit and watch and see.
• 49:06
  Esther Garnick: But I mean, I think that that is something that retailers introduced and more people are doing, um, more brands are doing the wish list building.
• 49:16
  Esther Garnick: But yeah, I mean, other than getting a job there and asking for it for the employee to employee.
• 49:23
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, I mean, it's hard.
• 49:26
  Esther Garnick: It is hard because it's such a competitive space and you know, we want our retailers to survive and we want them all to be in the black or in the yeah, in the black.
• 49:36
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 49:36
  Esther Garnick: So um, that's just a trick that I would suggest, especially when it comes to like, so people don't become seduced by something that just because it's on sale that they wouldn't have considered otherwise.
• 49:48
  Esther Garnick: Okay, because eventually that thing that you do like will probably come up on sale.
• 49:53
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 49:53
  Jen LaForge: So everything sounds incredibly simple, exceptionally fun and fashionable, but it's really not.
• 50:00
  Jen LaForge: And so for those that have been on this journey or maybe struggling, still feel as though a lot of their dollars are being wasted or feeling that guilt to the pile of clothes that they'll never wear.
• 50:12
  Jen LaForge: Um, let's sum this up um with services like you provide as a fashion consultant is an investment.
• 50:22
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 50:22
  Jen LaForge: And can save you a lot of money down the road.
• 50:24
  Jen LaForge: And through that, not only are you getting a brand new self in your clothes, but you're getting a runway to save going forward.
• 50:32
  Esther Garnick: Yes.
• 50:33
  Esther Garnick: It's it's going to basically eliminate waste.
• 50:36
  Esther Garnick: And that also includes your time.
• 50:39
  Esther Garnick: So it's not just your dollars.
• 50:41
  Esther Garnick: It's just like again, bandwidth is limited for so many women for a long list of reasons, but just like spending time in your closet and then feeling gnarly when you're like, I don't like anything in here.
• 50:57
  Esther Garnick: Just like even eliminating that and getting out of that rut.
• 51:00
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 51:01
  Esther Garnick: Wasted time, wasted money.
• 51:04
  Esther Garnick: That's over.
• 51:05
  Esther Garnick: We're ushering in a new era where we are making smart purchases and your closet is going to function at the level that also helps you function at a higher level because it's all a very holistic thing.
• 51:21
  Jen LaForge: I can't wait to go home and go in my closet and I'm gonna call it, wait for it.
• 51:25
  Jen LaForge: I'm gonna call it my Esther era.
• 51:27
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, you're in your Esther era.
• 51:29
  Esther Garnick: You're in your Esther, the EG wardrobe edit era.
• 51:32
  Esther Garnick: And this is the three, these are the pillars.
• 51:34
  Esther Garnick: You got to do a big purge if you haven't done it already, but you said that you already have done that.
• 51:39
  Esther Garnick: Yeah.
• 51:39
  Esther Garnick: You got to get rid of anything that doesn't serve you anymore.
• 51:41
  Esther Garnick: Then you got to spend a little time with what still fits, but you're feeling a little unsure of, and just kind of like play with it a little bit.
• 51:48
  Esther Garnick: Like dedicate time.
• 51:50
  Esther Garnick: It doesn't need to be all in one sitting, but dedicate some time to just kind of like looking at it and going, okay, how could I update this?
• 51:56
  Esther Garnick: What like small item outside of my closet could I purchase to bring this old thing into a current era?
• 52:05
  Esther Garnick: And then, you know, the third part is just kind of like rebuilding.
• 52:10
  Esther Garnick: And that is not something that needs to be done.
• 52:12
  Esther Garnick: Like, I really want to stress this.
• 52:14
  Esther Garnick: The rebuilding of a wardrobe, even if you are someone with a bottomless well of money, like it doesn't need to be done all in one day.
• 52:24
  Esther Garnick: Work with what's still is good, that gold that's in your closet that maybe you were overlooking because maybe there was just too much going on in there and you couldn't see it.
• 52:33
  Esther Garnick: Work with that, those great pieces, and then slowly layer in some new pieces that are going to really perform at the level you need them to.
• 52:45
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 52:46
  Jen LaForge: And fashion is fun.
• 52:47
  Jen LaForge: It should be for everybody.
• 52:48
  Jen LaForge: It should be fun and it is for everyone.
• 52:50
  Jen LaForge: Some of us just need help.
• 52:52
  Jen LaForge: I'm sure there's I have more questions for you because we haven't even talked about colors and skin tone and hair and this.
• 52:59
  Esther Garnick: That's very back, this whole like color, what's it called?
• 53:04
  Jen LaForge: Your seasons, your color swatching.
• 53:06
  Jen LaForge: It depends on your Doom Scroll, I think.
• 53:09
  Jen LaForge: But it also depends.
• 53:10
  Jen LaForge: What season are you?
• 53:12
  Jen LaForge: I have a thousand questions.
• 53:13
  Jen LaForge: I'm sure everyone else has a thousand questions.
• 53:15
  Jen LaForge: So one more time, tell them how to get a hold of you.
• 53:17
  Jen LaForge: If they would like a consult.
• 53:19
  Jen LaForge: Oh my gosh.
• 53:20
  Esther Garnick: Everyone get in touch with me.
• 53:21
  Esther Garnick: I love talking to people about this.
• 53:22
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 53:23
  Esther Garnick: My website is EG We E G W E dot C A.
• 53:29
  Esther Garnick: And all of my contact information is on there.
• 53:32
  Esther Garnick: But if you want to find me on Instagram, it's EG underscore wardrobe edit.
• 53:37
  Esther Garnick: And I will happily talk anybody through whatever their closet conundrum is, because ultimately I'm trying to get as many women to move as confidently as possible in these streets.
• 53:52
  Esther Garnick: So I'm here for you.
• 53:54
  Esther Garnick: And I so appreciate that you, of course, let me in the building.
• 53:58
  Jen LaForge: And if you're nervous and you're not ready, you want to get to know Esther a little bit more.
• 54:02
  Jen LaForge: Done but not dead.
• 54:03
  Jen LaForge: Estra has a podcast still on Spotify, so you can go back and check that out.
• 54:09
  Esther Garnick: Yeah, see, we are so many versions of ourselves.
• 54:12
  Esther Garnick: But like ultimately, confidence first.
• 54:16
  Jen LaForge: There you go.
• 54:16
  Jen LaForge: Tins up, shoulders back.
• 54:18
  Jen LaForge: Let's have more fun and still be smart and sobby.
• 54:20
  Jen LaForge: Estra, thank you for coming in and helping me.
• 54:22
  Jen LaForge: Thank you for having me.
• 54:23
  Jen LaForge: This was so much fun.
• 54:24
  Jen LaForge: Please come home with me now.
• 54:26
  Jen LaForge: I'm coming.
• 54:26
  Jen LaForge: Okay, perfect.
• 54:29
  Jen LaForge: And that's it for this episode of Stack.
• 54:31
  Jen LaForge: If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes.
• 54:38
  Jen LaForge: And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you.
• 54:42
  Jen LaForge: See you next time.