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Ghost Periods: Can You Still Feel Like You’re Getting a Period After Menopause? · My Sexy Menopause Body

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is My Sexy Menopause Body with Kim Nicholson.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Real conversations about your health, your choices, and how you want to live after menopause.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I have a confession.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm still getting my period.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not actually getting my period.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't had one in 15 years.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 15.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: No tampons, no pads, no wondering whether I can wear white pants and no calculating whether my period is going to show up during a vacation.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm over that.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: That chapter of my life is definitely closed.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least I thought it was.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because here's what keeps happening.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Every so often I start craving certain foods that usually only happen when I had my period.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then I notice also in the same period of time I get a little edgy that things that normally wouldn't bother me suddenly seem a little more irritating to me.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then out of nowhere, I feel a little sad.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not terribly sad, nothing dramatic, but just that from you know that familiar emotional shift I remember having in my younger years.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then after a few days, guess what?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's gone and I'm back to normal.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So and every time this happens, I have the same thought.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute, I know this feeling.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is exactly how I used to feel before I got my period.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Except there's one tiny problem.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have periods anymore.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: So what in the world is going on?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is my body still cycling?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is it some kind of uh hormonal aftershock?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is my brain remembering something my ovaries stopped doing 15 years ago?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a disconnect there somehow?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or am I just imagining a pattern because I experienced it for decades?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I started looking into it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And what I discovered is that the answer is a lot more interesting than I expected.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, my name is Kim, and welcome to my sexy menopause body, where we have real conversations about your body, your health, your relationships, and what it means to live super well on the other side of menopause.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, today we're talking about something I've started calling my ghost period.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I realize that sounds like the title of a very strange horror movie.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: But apparently my reproductive system has decided to haunt me.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least that's what it feels like.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So now before we go any further, let me tell you something important.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am not saying I still have a menstrual cycle.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I am saying my ovaries are secretly, and I'm not saying my ovaries are secretly ovulating.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm certainly not saying every woman experiences this, but what I am telling you about is something that I've noticed in my own body.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to understand it because I suspect that I'm not the only woman who experienced something familiar long after menopause.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about what we know, what we don't know, and why our bodies sometimes seem determined to keep us guessing.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the first thing I wanted to know uh was whether other women had experienced anything like this.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So do you?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you do, let me know.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because when you have been postmenopausal for 15 years and you're still recognizing those familiar premenstrual symptoms, you start wondering, am I really the only one?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: If I am, what's wrong with me?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna figure that out.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, researchers have documented something really interesting now.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Women who experience premenstrual symptoms earlier in life can continue reporting some of those familiar symptoms during reproductive aging, including aftermenopause.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's amazing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: One study that really caught my attention was the Penovarian Aging Study.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And researchers followed women for over several years and examined symptoms like irritability, mood changes, anxiety, and of course, difficulty in concentrating.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So women with a history of PMS were more likely to report certain mood-related symptoms across reproductive stages.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: But now here's where I want to be careful.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: That study does not prove that women continue having monthly hormonal cycles after menopause.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure I put that out there.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't prove that my symptoms are caused by hormones.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't tell us why I seem to recognize this familiar combination of cravings and mood changes.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it does tell us something too.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Experiencing these familiar symptoms after menopause isn't necessarily unique.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that fascinating because menopause is often presented as this very clear biological dividing line, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Before menopause, you have cycles, right?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then after menopause, you don't.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And biologically, you know, that's generally correct.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But our experiences don't always fit in so tidy with some of these categories.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, which brings me to the next question.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about what happens biologically.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, we all know that during our reproductive years, estrogen and progesterone, they rise and they fall in a fairly predictable pattern, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those hormonal changes help regulate ovulation and menstruation.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they continue to influence obviously our mood and our appetite, our sleep habits, and our physical symptoms.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's why women, you know, notice cravings before the period.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I know I did.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I always craved like Mexican food.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or you know, irritability during that time, or breast tenderness, or even feeling more emotional than you typically do.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm not saying that every woman experiences PMS and not every symptom is caused directly by hormone levels, but the menstrual cycle provides a recurring biological pattern.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So think about what yours was.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: After natural menopause, that predictable ovarian cycle ends.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: We know that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The ovaries generally stop releasing eggs, and estrogen and progesterone levels become much lower, and the monthly fluctuations associated with ovulation no longer occur.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But so 15 years later, after menopause, I shouldn't still be having the same monthly ovarian hormone cycles that I had at 35 years old.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the interesting part menopause doesn't mean your body stops producing hormones.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Your adrenal glands still produce hormones and your ovaries can continue producing some androgens.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Other tissues contribute to hormone metabolism and uh estrogen production.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your brain continues responding to your hormones, right?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And your neurotransmitters involved in mood and appetite and sleep.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: So your body isn't hormonally silent at all.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: But, and this is the important part, ongoing hormone production doesn't mean your body is still following a monthly menstrual rhythm.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two different things, and we don't have good evidence that women routinely experience a hidden menstrual cycle 15 years after menopause.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that explanation really doesn't quite fit, which leaves us with another possibility.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and this is where I started laughing at myself because I actually wonder, is my brain just refusing to let go of my period?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, seriously, I spent decades experiencing these symptoms.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Could my brain still recognize the pattern even though the biological cycle is gone?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's an interesting question, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer is that we don't know whether that explains my experience.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And here's something worth understanding.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Our brains are very good at recognizing familiar sensations.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Think about how you can hear a song from 30 years ago and instantly remember where you were when you first heard that song.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know I do that all the time.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or a smell, a smell that brings you back to a childhood memory.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the smell of uh kind of like the sour milk in my elementary school.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: One time I had my my mom and my dad, we were driving in Illinois, and I had I saw my elementary school, and that's back when you could walk in.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I walked into the halls, and immediately that smell was right there, and I immediately felt that childhood memory of walking down those halls because our brains connect these experiences, and for decades I connected certain cravings and emotional changes with my menstrual cycle.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so when these sensations appear now, I still recognize them immediately.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a distinction I want to make.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Recognizing a familiar pattern doesn't mean you're imagining the symptoms.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: The cravings can be real, the irritability can be real and the sadness can be real.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But what remains uncertain is why they're happening and whether they're actually occurring on a monthly schedule.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: But because there's another possibility, maybe I'm not experiencing a monthly psych at all.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm noticing the symptoms that feel so familiar that I automatically associate them with one.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something you know I can actually investigate.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll come back to that in just a moment.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: But here's where the conversation gets really interesting.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because several things can influence appetite and mood after a menopause, and none of them require an ongoing menstrual cycle.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start with sleep.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever noticed how much harder everything feels after a bad night's sleep?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: You may get more irritable, you may get more emotional, you may get hungrier and less patient, and more interested in certain comfort foods.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And now let's add stress on top of that, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you've been you've had a demanding week at work, maybe you're managing family responsibilities and you're worrying about something.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So your stress response system can influence also appetite, mood, and sleep.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And those effects can resemble symptoms you used to associate with PMS.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there are also other biological factors like thyroid problems can affect mood and energy, and certain medications can also do the same, and changes in your routine or eating patterns and physical activities can contribute to it.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes mood changes just happen without one obvious explanation.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what I find particularly interesting about my experience.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just one symptom, it's the combination, it's the cravings, the edginess, the little wave of sadness, and then the way it seems to just automatically just disappear.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what catches my attention because I recognize that sequence.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure you do too.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure if you think back, you can think about your sequence of events that your body's way of telling you, guess what?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your period is coming.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But recognizing a sequence doesn't really show me what causes it.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I think we need to be careful about telling ourselves stories about our health.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's very tempting to say, oh, my hormones must be cycling.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe they are, but there's no established evidence showing that this is a typical hormonal phenomenon 15 years after menopause.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to make up a specific scientific explanation just because it sounds interesting.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather admit that I just don't know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So there are a few studies that are worth discussing.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, first the Penn ovarian aging study, which I mentioned earlier, it suggests that women with a history of premenstrual symptoms may continue experiencing certain mood-related symptoms during their reproductive aging.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't establish an ongoing monthly cycle after menopause.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yet another study examined postmenopausal women who were given estrogen and progesterone.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And some of these women reported mild increases in symptoms such as you know, maybe a depressed mood or breast tenderness and cramping during progesterone treatments.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's interesting because it demonstrates that postmenopausal women can still respond to hormonal changes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But there is a catch.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those hormonal changes were created by treatment.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: They weren't evidence that you know women's ovaries were naturally cycling.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we got to take that study and say, aha, ghost periods are real.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not what it really proved.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that I want you to remember whenever you hear an exciting health headline.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: A study can demonstrate one thing without proving the explanation someone wants to attach to it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Alright?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I kind of look at both sides of any of the case studies.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: In this case, we know that familiar symptoms can occur after menopause.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: We do know that hormones continue to influence the body.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: We know that postmenopausal women can respond to hormonal treatments, but we do not have that convincing evidence that a natural menstrual type hormonal cycle continues, especially in my case, 15 years after menopause.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the distinct that distinction really does matter.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's something I realized while researching for this episode.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've been saying that these symptoms happen monthly, but I but I have actually documented that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like the 27th or the 28th of every month.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't physically write it down.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if you if you've experienced the same, write it down and see.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's kind of interesting to and and also something to discuss with your doctor.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So how do I know whether this is truly happening after 28 or 30 days?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you know my health coaching brain kicked in because sometimes the most useful thing we can do is stop assuming and then really start observing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to pay attention to the pattern.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing elaborate.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not buying any other device, I'm not ordering a collection of hormone tests.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm simply going to start keeping a record.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: When do those cravings hit me?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna mark that down, especially the ones that are really odd or the ones that were familiar back when you did have your period.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And when do I feel irritable?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it also around that same time?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, write down again the date.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And when do I notice sadness?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And how long did the sadness last, you know, in my month?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And how am I sleeping?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what's happening in my life at this time?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm going to see what the pattern actually looks like.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll discover that the symptoms at, you know, occur at a fairly regular interval, which I think that they do.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll discover that they're much more or less predictable than I thought.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll notice there's a connection with my stress or my poor sleep, like we explained earlier.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: But at least I'll have something more useful than a vague memory.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if the patterns continue or changes, I can discuss it with my gynecologist.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to understand what's happening without assuming that every familiar sensation must have been the same cause that I had 30 years ago.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And here's also what surprised me about researching this topic.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't that scientists had discovered some secret menstrual cycle that continues after menopause because they haven't.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was realizing how easily we can confuse a familiar pattern with a familiar explanation.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel something that I felt before, so I assume the cause must be the same.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But our bodies change, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And our circumstances do change, and our sleep changes, and our stress changes, and the same sensations that we, you know, that we had at different causes or different points of our life.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's worth remembering.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Not just what we're talking about, menopause, but whenever we're talking to, you know, about anything to understand what's happening in our bodies.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a difference between knowing, you know, what something feels like and then knowing really what the root cause is.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the most useful thing, you know what, we can say is, you know what, I recognize this, but I'm not quite sure what it really means.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not failure to understand your health.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the beginning of asking just better questions, that's all.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So now I'm curious about you.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever noticed any symptoms that remind you of your old menstrual cycle, even though your periods ended years ago?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have do you still get those food cravings on a you know monthly basis?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you notice a few days of irritability?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, you feel emotional for no obvious reason, or maybe you haven't experienced anything like this at all.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do recognize something familiar, I want to offer you a few thoughts here.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: First, don't assume that you're having a menstrual cycle like I did myself.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how natural menopause generally works, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And second, don't assume that familiar symptoms are imaginary because mood changes and appetite changes and physical sensations, they are real, even when the cause isn't immediately obvious.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, third, pay attention to the patterns and rather than jump to the explanations.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, if your symptoms are persistent or worsening or interfering with your life, please talk to your healthcare professional.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And one important medical note here, too, I want to make sure that I add if you experience any vaginal bleeding or spotting after menopause, that should always be evaluated.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So don't assume that it's a ghost period.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're experiencing any significant depression or anxiety or any other concerning symptoms, you know, those deserve appropriate attention too.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am 15 years without a period, and every once in a while I get a little reminder of those years, what they used to feel like.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: A craving, that irritability, a few days when I get kind of emotional, and then poof, it's gone.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do I know exactly why?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do I think I'm secretly menstruating?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, absolutely not.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I am curious, and you bet, and I think that what makes this such an interesting conversation is because uh we don't have to invent an answer because we just want one.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: We can ask questions about ourselves, look at the evidence, and notice the patterns and remain curious about it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Although I have to admit, if my period really is haunting me, I think 15 years is long enough.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously, move on already.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I'm Kim, and this has been my Sexy Menopause Body.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've experienced something like this, I would genuinely love to hear about it because I think there is some research, there's some more questions to be asked about it.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know of a woman who might, you know, laugh and say, Oh my gosh, I thought I was the only one, share this episode with her.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: So until next time, stay curious about your health and keep asking really good questions.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And don't believe every explanation just because it sounds convincing.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And to my ghost period, you know what?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've had your time.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: We are done here.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You've been listening to my sexy menopause body with Kim Nicholson.