Latest / It’s All Your Fault: High Conflict People / Setting Boundaries in High Conflict Situations
Transcript
- Megan Hunter Welcome to It's All Your Fault on TruStory FM, the one and only podcast dedicated to helping you with the most challenging human interactions, those involving someone with a high conflict personality. I'm Megan Hunter and I'm here with my co-host Bill Eddy. Bill Eddy Hi, everybody. Megan Hunter We are the co-founders of the High Conflict Institute and ConflictInfluencer.com, where we focus on helping either organizations or you in your personal life with coaching, classes, training, and all sorts of things, all to do with high conflict. So welcome back listeners. Happy to have you with us today wherever you're listening, whether it's your car, on your walk, on your jog, at the gym, or laying in bed taking a nap. So we're glad you're here. Today we are answering your questions. I don't look every week to see how many questions have come in. So I looked today and it was a lot. So we have five questions, Bill, and it will take us a little bit of time to get through them. So I think we can do this in 30 to 35 minutes, honestly. We'll give it a shot. All right, first question. I'm dealing with a complicated situation involving my 81-year-old neighbor. She insists on coming over to my house every day to visit with my wife. I also took her dog in because she said she didn't have time to care for it. But now she insists on coming over to visit the dog as well. At this point, it feels like she's taking over our home, and my wife has a hard time saying no to her daily visits. I want to set boundaries and tell her that this is invading our privacy, but I'm afraid that if I do, she'll take the dog back. I also suspect she may have histrionic personality traits. How should I handle this situation? Bill Eddy Okay, well this is a perfect situation for SLIC Solutions, setting limits and imposing consequences in two and a half steps. So first of all, don't try to persuade her that you need to set limits. Just say something like, you know, we've realized with our schedules that it would be easier if you would come every other day or something or other. Don't make it personal. Don't make it about her. Especially if she does have histrionic traits, she's going to feel like a pincushion, like any possibly negative feedback hurts. Oh my goodness. So you want to be real gentle, but just focus it on schedule, you know, the way our schedule is now, it seems like it'd work better if you come every other day. And of course we'll keep taking care of the dog. But let's actually agree on a time that works for you. What would be a good time if you came every other day? Megan Hunter Okay, so if you do that, Bill, yeah, I guess there's two ways to handle that. It's either asking them if there's a time that works for her or stating what time works for you. Is there a wrong answer? Bill Eddy There isn't a wrong answer, but probably it'll make her feel more respected if she has some power over this decision because she's losing ground and she'll realize she's losing ground if she doesn't come over every day. And so if you give her a decision related to that, then she may feel less powerless in the situation and feel more respected. It's like, oh, well the morning's always best for me. And we say, okay, great, you know, sometime between 10 and 12. Because you understand we also need our private times and we really enjoy seeing you. But I think every other day we'll keep it the most positive and, you know, we'll keep your dog fed, etcetera. Something like that. The principles are don't make it personal. Try to make it about something, you know, neutral like time. And with it, you can say something positive about her. We enjoy when you visit, especially, well, not I was going to say especially when it's not every day, but you don't want to put it that way. But something like if we can have more of a schedule I think it'll make it easier for us. And you also may want to plan things away from home yourselves so that, you know, you've got a life and that way she can work around it rather than taking it over. Megan Hunter Yeah, yeah. It's so hard though if you just want to have peace in your own home and someone is intruding on that. So I think setting limits is the way to do it. I want to come back to imposing consequences in a minute, but before I do, I have a question about the histrionic traits. One is you mentioned it feels like a pincushion, like kind of intolerable to be told to do something that they don't want to do. So should we be afraid of that? What concern should we give there? Bill Eddy You know, it's important not to be afraid of other people's personality quirks because then you hesitate to set limits and then you do get your life run over. So you have to be ready for the negative consequence that might happen to you, which is she takes her dog and never speaks to you again. You have to kind of be ready for that possibility. A reasonable person wouldn't do that. So if you're walking on eggshells, it's actually probably better to set your limits and impose your consequences if necessary, realizing that some people will be offended and back off more than you intended, but that's part of the price of having your own life and your own space. So don't not do what you need to do because she has a sensitive personality, but you can add something that shows empathy, attention, and respect, either, you know, we can understand that you care about your dog and appreciate how well you've raised the dog, or we have respect for your time and we realize we need to schedule things a little bit more. So having empathy, attention, and respect can often kind of soften the limit setting. And with a histrionic person that probably will help. They really like empathy if you can think of something that shows, you know, we really like how you care about your dog. Megan Hunter Yeah. So something like that. Bill, if it's, and not that we're diagnosing or encouraging anyone to diagnose or label, but if it's someone more along the antisocial or narcissistic personality spectrum, we aren't going to use empathy so much and the setting limits might look a little bit stronger. Would you agree? Bill Eddy Yes. In other words, we talk about setting limits imposing consequences in two and a half steps. And the half step is whether to give that empathy, attention, and respect or not, and really just stay focused on the consequence and being firm. And with narcissistic and antisocial people, they'll often manipulate your empathy. So it may be better to just say, no, actually today's not a good time. And just be firm about that. Megan Hunter So let's talk about imposing consequences with this particular neighbor. If the boundary is violated, the limit is violated, so we've agreed on every other day or every third day or something like that, and yet she keeps coming over, then how do we impose the consequence? And what consequence should be imposed? Bill Eddy Well, the consequence would be not answering the door or answering the door and saying, I'm sorry, today's not a good time. We'll see you tomorrow, you know, and then close the door. Don't spend time waiting for her to respond, because she'll get her foot in the door. So more just gently, you know, now's not a good time. So tomorrow really would work better. And that way you're not saying she's doing something wrong. You're making it about time. And that's more objective and less personal. Megan Hunter And it's okay to do that. Absolutely. And I think this is what I think people forget is that we can't let other people be intrusive in our lives. It is okay to have somewhat of a boundary, have a limit, and impose consequences when we need to when those boundaries are violated because this can really consume a great deal of your time, not just the neighbor coming over and taking time, but also just being in your head. Bill Eddy Right, right. Rent free. Megan Hunter Rent free in your head more than anything else. So we don't want it to do that. So we can just set a limit and impose the consequence if we need to. You're not being mean, you're just setting a limit and that's a gift to yourself. And it's okay to give that gift to yourself. So let's move on to question number two. Thank you so much for the podcast. I find it incredibly helpful. We're glad you do. I recently listened to your October 9th episode about not responding to hostile messages from a high conflict ex, and I appreciated how simple and clear that advice was. I'm a stepmom in a similar situation. My husband's ex is very high conflict, and because we may need to involve family court in the future, we're carefully documenting all communications. Her messages are frequently hostile and include false accusations about my husband and their child. While we understand that ignoring inflammatory claims is often the most de-escalating response, we worry that not responding or correcting the record could be seen by a judge as agreement or admission. How should someone balance de-escalation with documentation when preparing for a possible family court case? Bill Eddy Yeah, so this is an opportunity for a BIFF response. Brief, informative, friendly, and firm. And when you're not sure whether to respond or not, sometimes a BIFF response is best because you're not just letting it seem like it hangs there and someone else thinks, gee, you're being insensitive. So the thing with a BIFF response is usually to correct misinformation, but not saying you're correcting the person. Just say, you know, thank you for letting me know your concerns. You may not be aware of XYZ information, and I hope that's helpful or just we appreciate you, something positive, something friendly. Megan Hunter It's hard to do, Bill, on the spot when you don't have the substance there. Bill Eddy It is. And it may just be you say, thank you for telling me your concerns. You may not be aware, but here's some information, and then take care. Something like that. Megan Hunter Yep, and just list that information in there. And that's not offensive. It's just stating facts. Bill Eddy And you're not arguing. You're not arguing with what she said, but yet you're correcting it by saying, here's some information that does make it more accurate. A quick example I like is when someone says you were making so much noise yesterday it was really distracting, and that you write back, thanks for letting me know about your concern. You may not be aware that I was out of town yesterday, so it would not have been me. Take care. Something like that. So you're not arguing with them, but you're just informing them of factual information. Megan Hunter Yeah. Brief, informative, friendly, and firm. No advice, no admonishments, no apologies. So we do have a BIFF series of books. And so for this one, BIFF for Co-Parent Communication would be helpful. And we'll put that link in the show notes. Also, I should have said on question one, we'll put your newest book, Bill, SLIC Solutions for Conflict, in the show notes as well. So now let's move on to question three. We're actually doing really well, Bill, honestly, getting through these. Bill Eddy It's good that we have books because these issues actually have come up before. And so we can refer people to, and each of those books has about 30 examples of applying a SLIC solution or a BIFF response. Megan Hunter Yep. And I like to think of these as hacks, right? Instead of perseverating and just, you know, really spinning about what to do, it's very simple. What should I do? Set a limit or send a response, a BIFF response. It really simplifies these very complicated, seemingly complex situations. All right, moving on to question three. This is a workplace-related question. How do you work with a coworker who ignores you and clearly doesn't want to engage, even though you're expected to function as a team? I'm leaving an abusive relationship where the silent treatment was common, and this is in this person's personal life. And this dynamic feels very similar. I've tried neutral connection and offering help, but I'm consistently met with silence or rejection. When I raised concerns with my supervisor, I was told to just endure it. A later meeting with management and HR left me feeling I had to defend myself against petty complaints. After 21 years with this company, the situation has created significant anxiety and made me dread going to work. What steps would you recommend and how can I better protect my emotional well-being while navigating this? Bill Eddy Well, I would start with perhaps making a list of options you have because the reality is this does happen. Sounds like you've made some efforts to address the situation. And so if you make a list, you write down all your possible options. One is to once again try to suggest to the person, you know, I can be helpful or let me know if you have things I can assist with or whatever. So one would be deal with the person directly and just be persistent a little bit more about that. That's one option. Another is start looking for other jobs. One thing that we found, and there's research by the Workplace Bullying Institute, on when you can't stop a bully, it may be mentally healthy just to get out of there. Now this doesn't sound like the ordinary bully who's harassing you. But sometimes the passive aggressive and silent approach has some of the same effect. It's disregarding your existence and being disrespectful. Most people wouldn't do that. Another thing, write on your list, maybe there's a different job in your organization where you can get out from under this situation, but maybe it's a good company or agency to work for. And also write down a couple things about how you don't deserve this and you're a good person and a hard worker, you know, giving yourself encouraging statements often can help cope. Maybe you have a calendar if you've been there 21 years. I've consulted with people that have a year to go before retirement and they get an awful new manager. And sometimes just getting a calendar and crossing off the days, you say, okay, now it's only 86 days, so I can visually see there's hope in sight. You know, maybe put an island in the Caribbean on your wall with those dates that you're checking off. So don't get locked into a hopelessness sense. There's always choices, always options. They may not be really great, but you're not trapped and it's not your fault, it sounds like. Sounds like you made a lot of effort and some people are just non-communicative. Megan Hunter Yeah, and I think if the option is to stay rather than look for a new job, which, you know, some people do look for new jobs, you can also hope that that person gets transferred or finds a new job elsewhere. But I think if you have to stay in this, I think that's the real struggle that people face is how to deal with that on a daily basis and not have that dread going to work. And I think it involves some self-work, understanding really who you are and that other people, you know, I'm not going to allow them to impact my day and take up space in my head. And if they don't want to talk to me, that's up to them, but I have other relationships in this office, in this building, in our team. And just, you know, work on strengthening those relationships and maintaining those. And I think that can be really helpful. I know that it helps a lot when you get that question mark over your head that's just filled with dread, like what do I do? I think it's helpful to go to remind yourself that you have other good relationships. So you have had this past personal relationship that hasn't been fantastic and this work relationship now kind of reminds you of that. Kind of put that past relationship into a category of its own. Also then add a category of all the good relationships you have and focus on those and try to just cognitively think about those more and the strength that you bring to those relationships as well. And I think that that lessens the impact. Bill Eddy I was going to say just write down all those positive relationships because sometimes they slip away when we're focused on the negative and you start going, yeah, there's all these people. One person doesn't have to mess up your life, but it does take, like you said, some shifting of your own thinking, some self-care. Megan Hunter Yeah, yeah. There's a lot we can do for ourselves. And listen, I've been in this situation myself and I dreaded going to work, not with Bill. Bill Eddy Oh, good. Megan Hunter But in a prior job and, you know, there was a supervisor I had in one position that just made me, you know, made my stomach hurt every morning driving into the office and then just kind of all day I felt on edge. And I wish I would have known then what I know now. And it's really about being more centered and self-aware and understanding that you can't let someone else just intrude in your brain that way. You do have some choices there. I also understand it's difficult. But yeah, protect your emotional well-being while you navigate it. I've worked with some companies, people in companies who, I think of one where some teachers would come into the teacher's lounge and they were just frozen out by one or two of the others who seemed to have a lot of power. But I think ultimately what they tried to do was focus on those other relationships, focus on their job, and their dread level went down. So I think that's hopefully inspiring and motivating and encouraging to just go and be empowered. Do your job. Focus on your job. By the way, this just this morning I was looking at our website's top organic landing page entries, which basically means what are people looking at when they come to our website? What are they looking for? And again, for what, 18 years now, it's the top five are, you know, how to manage a very difficult or narcissistic boss. So it hasn't changed in 18 years. All right, so let's move on to question four, Bill. How do you decipher between normal high conflict co-parenting and harassment to the extent where you might need a harassment restraining order? How do you decide when you need to do that? Bill Eddy I think so, yeah. I would frankly say talk to a lawyer in your county and find out. Because one thing people need to know is you don't automatically get a restraining order if you ask for it, that the judges are supposed to consider, has there recently been harassing behavior or even violent behavior or threat of that? Is that likely to occur? Now also, if you talk to a lawyer, you'll find out what your state's requirements are. For example, I'm a California lawyer. And in California, you can actually get a restraining order for coercive control even if there hasn't been any relationship violence. Coercive control, like blocking you from friendships, from family, taking away your phone, hiding financial information, being really controlling. One guy made his wife weigh herself like three or four times a day so he could see whether she was gaining weight or not. I mean that's coercive control. Megan Hunter Oh man. Bill Eddy And she got a restraining order against him. But see what your state says. In California disturbing the peace of the other partner can be considered a basis for a restraining order. But again, judges don't always approve them. You have to make a case and explain it, get your information together. So that's why I recommend consult with a lawyer for half an hour or an hour to find out what the rules are where you are. Megan Hunter And there's also a lot of domestic violence organizations that probably have this information either on their websites or if you just ring them up in your local area, you could probably get some information as well if a lawyer is out of reach financially. Bill Eddy Yeah, let me add, so there's domestic violence clinics in some courts where you specifically can get someone to give you information, and sometimes even help you prepare forms for that. So you're right, there may be low-cost or no cost alternatives. Megan Hunter Especially in the larger jurisdictions. In smaller areas like rural areas, those resources might be a little harder to find, but everyone has a phone now. So just do a little bit of a deep dive and find out what's happening in your jurisdiction. Bill Eddy We should put in the show notes the domestic violence website and also the hotline phone number. Megan Hunter We'll put those at least for the US. So if you're not, I know we have a lot of listeners that are not in the US. So, you know, you can look those up in your countries as well. So let's move on to question five. You don't typically name diagnoses like borderline personality disorder, but many of the high conflict traits you describe sound similar. I'm in my seventies and living with my adult daughter, who shows intense hostility, black and white thinking, paranoia, and an inability to tolerate disagreement. She's been living with me for two years after being evicted, says she can't work due to physical complaints, moves very slowly toward medical care, and refuses mental health help. Her verbal outbursts and lack of progress are taking a serious emotional toll on me, but I'm afraid that forcing her to leave would put her on the street. I've tried clear statements and SLIC solutions, which helped minimally, but nothing leads to meaningful change. Are there limits to how effective these techniques can be in situations like this? Bill Eddy Well, yes, I mean everything has its limits, so it's good you've tried these things. With SLIC solutions, setting limits and imposing consequences, it may just be you need to have bigger consequences and you may just need to be prepared that she'll go live on the street for a few days. I've worked with parents of young adults. And nowadays young adults could range up into their 40s or 50s like this situation. And it's because they get away with this stuff that they keep pushing. And so part of setting limits is saying I can no longer handle this. I'm, what was it, in my seventies, and I need to focus on my own health and well-being. And therefore you need to look for some other housing starting at the end of the month, something like that. And give an EAR statement. This is where people with borderline personality often really appreciate something that shows that you have some empathy for them and say, this is very hard for me to do, but I really need to do it for my own well-being. I'm not helping you or me if I let this uncomfortable situation continue. By the end of the month, that gives you two or three weeks to look for other options. Now, when you set limits like that, you have to be prepared for them to push back and they're going to either burst into tears. If they have borderline traits, they may burst into a rage. You're an awful person. How can you do this? So you have to prepare yourself for that possibility. And when that stuff happens and say, you know, I can understand it's upsetting and it still needs to be done. You'll still need to move at the end of the month, something like that. So it really is kind of going back into the setting limits and imposing consequences with some empathy, attention, and respect. Megan Hunter Let me just add something. So borderline personality disorder is one of the five common high-conflict personality disorders. And there's an overlap. Maybe 50 percent of people with high conflict personalities also have a personality disorder. And this is one of the most stressful because they attack the people they're closest to, people that care for them and love them. And so understanding this high conflict behavior and borderline behavior, she may or may not have that, but this is characteristic of that. In either case, don't focus on that when you communicate with her, just focus on what you need and what you have to do. And I think importantly, Bill, you mentioned that this is likely to cause an emotional reaction. It almost always will. There's not going to be a lot of logic in seeing mom's point of view on this. So we have to expect that and be prepared for emotional bargaining, manipulation that's going to start happening and just trying to make you feel guilty. You don't love me. Why are you being so mean to me? How dare you? I'm going to tell everybody how bad you are. I mean, you can just expect these things. So I think when you set the expectation, it's a little easier to deal with when it happens. It can still, you know, kind of penetrate you. This is your family member, but I think you have to remind yourself, this is to be expected. It does not mean that I'm a mean person. I don't have to believe anything that is being said to me or about me. I get to have that choice and I'm going to stick with my limits because I deserve as much a chance to have my own well-being and happiness as my daughter does. Bill Eddy Absolutely. Well put. Megan Hunter Yeah. I think people forget. I think we just as humans we forget sometimes, especially when it's family. And we care about them and we feel like we're putting someone out on the street. Well, you're not making someone homeless. You're letting and allowing that person an opportunity to make a choice. It is an opportunity to get better. And if they don't make that choice, they are making the choice to do something different. And you don't know what that different is. There may come threats of, you know, you're making me homeless. I'm going to be living on the street. I'm going to be on skid row. I'll be starving. Well, you have an opportunity to make a different choice here, whatever that choice may be. Bill Eddy You know, you might even get some resources that you can give her when you're saying this is, here's someone that can help with counseling, someone that can help with housing or food or whatever. And then when she says, well, I'll be on the street, you can say, well, that would be your choice, not mine, and you have other options. So point out to her it's her choice, not yours. That's the thing, is they're going to push back and try to hold you responsible for their bad decisions. Megan Hunter Yeah, people just don't get to dictate your life. It's okay. Bill Eddy Have another thought. And that is another option might be let's meet with a counselor together and let's talk about this transition and any questions and processing this. So you actually give some options. If you're really concerned about this, let's meet with a counselor together. Or you can say, I'm really confident, I mean, I'm steady in my decision. So it's definitely the end of the month. But during that time I'm willing to meet with a counselor with you, talk about what some of the options are. And you're not really happy, and that makes me sad. And I think you may be happier and a counselor may have some ideas for us. But I really will have to have you leave by the end of the month. Megan Hunter Expecting also, Bill, punishment or threats of punishment, right? Bill Eddy Yeah. Megan Hunter I think that can be troublesome when you know that someone might, you know, this person might try to smear your reputation or turn other family members against you, and but you have to hold steady. These aren't always easy situations, but you can make them easier by just remembering, you know, I know who I am and this is the decision I've made for my life. I still love this person and this person has an opportunity to make a life worth living. There are a lot of resources available to do that. So often we think that it's going to be complete pushback when in actuality, when we do set a limit, it gives someone an opportunity to make their life better. Bill Eddy Mm-hmm. Yep. Megan Hunter So that is it for today. We'll probably have more listener questions next time because there's so many and they're so good. So thank you for sending those in, listeners. We really appreciate it. You'll find all the links we talked about, including, I forgot to mention, New Ways for Work coaching training that we're doing soon. That would be, I think, helpful for those in the workplace because we did have an HR question today, kind of HR related. We'll put the links for HighConflictInstitute.com for professional training and consultation and other programs and ConflictInfluencer.com for personal life questions. We also have a community that we've been doing at Conflict Influencer that I think is really a helpful and supportive place for people going through really difficult situations like this. We meet on Monday nights. So keep learning and practicing skills. Be kind to yourself and others while we all try to keep the conflict small and find the missing peace. SECTION 2: SPOT-CHECK LIST 1. "find the missing peace" vs "find the missing piece" - Transcript uses "peace" which appears intentional as a play on words (peace/piece), but verify this is the correct tagline. 2. "BIFF for Co-Parent Communication" - Capitalization of "Co-Parent" uncertain, may be "co-parent" or "Co-parent" 3. "New Ways for Work" - Capitalization uncertain, could be "New Ways For Work" 4. "81-year-old" in question vs "in my seventies" in Bill's response - Bill paraphrases the age, verify this accurately reflects the question 5. Skid row vs Skid Row - Uncertain if this should be capitalized as a proper noun or lowercase 6. Multiple instances where Bill says "real" but transcript shows "really" - verify if "real" is dialect/speech pattern that should be preserved (examples: "be real gentle," "being real controlling," "real confident," "real concerned") 7. Megan's longer statement in question 5 starting with "And I think importantly, Bill..." - Verify this is correctly attributed to Megan and not Bill 8. "NHR" vs "and HR" in question 3 - Original transcript shows "NHR" which appears to be transcription error for "and HR"