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Boy Crazy: Navigating Attraction and Crushes · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:02
  Speaker A: Hello and welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. We have Matt Lancadel. He is a counselor and facilitator specializing in healing and empowerment. We have Reno Johnston, who is a spiritual, life, love and business coach. And I am Michael D'Orio. I'm a wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. We each have our own private practice, but in this podcast we're show sharing all of our best stuff. And today we're going to explore a more playful and flirtatious side of ourselves in an episode we're calling Boy Crazy. Some of the questions we'll be reflecting on together today are what kinds of guys are you typically attracted to? And are there any specific traits that make your heart flutter? How do you express your feelings to guys you're interested in? And how do you handle unreciprocated feelings? All right, so reminder for our viewers and listeners out there, we'll be continuing this discussion in the last Thursday of the month in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Zoom Hangout. This is where we give you guys a chance to share your own thoughts on the topics we discuss here. So you can join us in the private Facebook group Gay Men's Brotherhood and check out the Events tab or if you get on our mail list, we will send you the Zoom link on the day of the event. Reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we're creating here, you can support us by making a donation using the link in the show notes. You could also subscribe to get early access to episodes on Apple Podcasts. All of your support helps us to continue making content and supporting our community. We thank you very much in advance. And if you're looking to accelerate your personal development journey, check out our coaching collection. It includes two courses, Healing youg Shame and Building Better relationships, plus over 45 premium personal development coaching videos on topics such as body confidence, relationships, self confidence and community. Head over to gay men going deeper.com for more info. All right, so here we are. Boy Crazy. Let me preface this by saying the theme of the month in the Gay Men's Brotherhood this month is attraction. So we have some really juicy, fun episodes coming up for you. I'm particularly looking forward to. I think two weeks from now. We've got a good one coming up. So what we're doing this month is paying homage to that part of ourselves that experiences intense romantic or sexual attraction, sometimes to the point of being preoccupied or infatuated. So anyone who's had a crush before knows what I mean. You may find yourself captivated by someone in particular. Maybe you don't know why or how this happens, but they are. When you're around them, you have this very peculiar excitement. When you're. When. When you're around them, interactions with them leave you with a sense of euphoria that lingers for hours and days afterwards. If you're like me, every little notification on your phone becomes this hopeful anticipation that it could be them. Thoughts of them constantly occupy your mind, even when you don't want them to be. Your heart flutters a little bit, Your mind spins. It feels like a strange excitement, a strange mixture of excitement and nervousness. Two sides of the same coin, in my opinion. And on the one hand, you're drawn to this possibility of something more. It's fun and exciting. But then on the other hand, you're so afraid of being vulnerable and then revealing these true feelings and it not going your way. This is what it feels like to have a crush. Even just talking about it, I got myself all excited. My heart's fluttering.
• 3:55
  Speaker B: Oo, yeah.
• 3:57
  Speaker A: All right, so now just quickly, you, viewer, listener, may be thinking, if this show is called Gay Men Going Deeper, why are they talking about such frivolous things like crushes and being boy crazy? So I'm going to just share with you my opinion on this. You could take it or leave it. I would say this is actually not a frivolous topic and I'll tell you why. At the core, what we're talking about here is attraction and desire. We're talking about emotion, we're talking about connection, and we're talking about the most real human experience at its most raw. And that is exactly what this podcast is about. Okay, so with that lens on it, let's jump into our first question because I'm super excited to get into it with you guys. So the first question is, what kinds of guys are you typically attracted to? And are there any specific traits that make your heart flutter? Now, I have some ideas in my mind for both you, but I'm going to let you guys answer it and see if I'm right. And I want to start with Matt today.
• 4:54
  Speaker C: Hey. Yeah, good intro. I like that and I agree with you. I think it's important to have this conversation, and it's not frivolous. I think it's an important conversation. So. Okay, so I thought about this this morning. I was. And I was. I was actually in a Lot of gratitude for this because I don't do journaling, really. I'm a very introspective person. But every week I get an opportunity to sit down with like, you know, three or four questions and really, really go into, like, what is going on for me. So this really is my journaling practice. And then I get to share it live with you guys and then obviously the broader audience, but it doesn't really feel like that. It feels like I'm just with you guys. So I wrote down three things to answer the first question very directly. What kinds of guys are you typically attracted to? And I would say there's three categories of attraction that I have, and one would be masculinity. So I'm very drawn to masculine energy. And by that I mean, yes, the physical attributes of. Of masculinity, even the gender of masculinity, I'm attracted to. And then the, the. The energy of masculinity I'm very drawn to. So the presence, the groundedness, the rootedness in. In one self confidence, these sorts of things. The doer energy. I'm very, very much drawn to that. And then usually, like, athletic guys, but not necessarily jocks. I think that might be like a stereotypical attraction in our community is like guys that have abs and pecs and big arms and they're muscular and like. So for me, it's not so much that, but it's like a guy that uses his body. And so that could be in all different forms. It could be jiu jitsu, it could be hockey, it could be whatever. But I like athleticism in the sense of they. They have power and confidence in their body in some form. And then the last one would be like new age spiritual, like hippie kind of guy. So if I could blend all three of those, like a guy with like, kind of like hippie vibes that was like athletic and kind of had, you know, maybe he's like a yoga guy and has like a really nice yoga body, and then he's also really masculine. Like, that would be kind of like my ideal. My ideal dude. But to take it one step further, I put it. I broke it down into kind of three or four categories. So physical, emotional, mental, and sexual. And these are the things that I came up with. So within masculinity, like the things I'm really drawn to in masculinity are like a rugged, like ruggedness. So it's like they ruggedness for me is kind of like a, like, get your hands dirty kind of thing. Like just rugged you know, I mean like blue collar construction worker kind of guy. For some reason, I'm drawn to that deep voice. I like a guy with a deep voice. He might be into the outdoors and sports. He's handy, so he knows how to build things and work with his hands. And I've said this before on the podcast, but I like big hands. Like it's just something. And it's funny because I had, I must have read these questions last night. And then I had a dream last night and I was with my best friend in the dream and there was a guy and he was super sexy and he had big hands. And I kept like trying to nudge her to be like, oh my God, look at his hands, they're so big. Or something like that. So I just thought that was really interesting that that came through. And other things within physical would be like a country boy, like that sort of energy, like rural kind of, you know, like kind of innocent. Doesn't like go to like the urban parties and things like that. That's something I'm drawn to. Taller than me. I definitely like a guy that's taller than me. Kind eyes, nice teeth. I like a guy with nice teeth. Like clean, like clean mouth. That sort of thing smells good. And then one thing that's, that's for me, that's. I'm really drawn to is the way that a guy carries his body and especially his walk. So it's. I can't really describe what that's like. Everybody has a very different walk. But there's some that I'm very drawn to in, in the way that they move. Maybe it's the way their hips move or something like that. But when I see a guy walk and I'm really attracted to that, it's like a. It's a big, big arousal or an attraction for me. So those are some of the physical traits. Emotional for me. And this is probably, I would say, the biggest area for me. It's like the biggest area of attraction for me is emotional. So I like a guy who's sensitive and I mean that in the sense of emotional sensitivity. But also like just sensitivity to me is like being highly attuned to yourself and your environment. That's an aspect of sensitivity. So somebody that's very, very attuned to themselves, their environment, and they're sensitive to other people, they're thoughtful. So there's a. There's an element of sensitivity that's really drawn. Draws me in, obviously. Emotional availability. I'm demisexual. So if you ain't available emotionally you ain't going to be, you ain't going to get my, my juices flowing kind and this again this is part of the demisexual thing and also the sensitivity. So when a guy's very sensitive and very in tune with himself and he's kind and I see him doing kind things, it causes arousal for me. Tend to be more drawn to introverted guys but it's not a deal breaker for me. But I, I like introversion in the sense of they tend to usually have a good relationship with themsel and they can be independent. And I'm also not a huge fan of like doing a ton of extroverted things like going to parties and being around large groups. So to have a partner that was like wanting to always draw me into those things it probably, I don't know, I wouldn't really like that a lot. And then vulnerability is such a huge thing for me. Like being able to talk about their fears, their insecurities, their needs, their desires, their fantasies. Like just being able to really show up and expose themselves is really important and then mental. So I am safe your sexual as well. So somebody who's intellectually stimulating so they want to talk about ideas and you know, they want to build things together and these sorts of things and they're always like forward thinking and talking about our future together and and these sorts of things is something I'm really drawn to. So they would enjoy deep and meaningful conversations. But I will also say because I'm introverted, I also like a guy that can be in silen and stillness together for long periods of time. Like maybe we're you know, sitting on the couch hanging out and we're just, we don't have to talk for hours. We can just be in each other's energy. That's something. And then so curiosity is also a really big intellectual stimulator for me. So asking a lot of questions. I'm naturally a really curious person. So being inquisitive, you know, people asking me questions and wanting to learn about me is something really. And that's actually how I show love and show like my crushes that I'm into them is I'm. I'm very curious about their life and want to know about, about them. And then the last one I have here so sexual. So again being demisexual sapiosexual it's very important for me in order to be attracted or have arousal like that. The gateway to my arousal and attraction is through my, my head and my heart. So those things are Very important to me. And then this is, this one's funny. So I, I wrote down geeky and freaky. So I love this contrast. Okay, so a guy that is like has a geeky present. Maybe he's into like kind of like, you know, and I use geeky with air quotes. Everybody's going to have their own definition of what that is, but like quirky geeky, just like not, you know, and then in the bedroom, they're very wild and naughty and like that. So for me, that contrast is such an attraction. So I never rule out geeky guys. I'm always like, what's behind that. That door? You know, tops for sure. I'm definitely drawn more to. To a guy who's a topic handsy. Like a guy that is. Uses his hands a lot, wants to touch me a lot. Those sorts of things. Very drawn to. And then I wrote down gently dominant. I'm not into like S M. I don't like dominant guys who like to power over with ego, but like gently dominant. Like they're like, they lead with their heart in their dominance. Right. And they want to like secure and protect and like hold and. And that. And that can translate to like some really interesting sexual energy too, when a guy is able to use his dominance from a heart centered place. So, yeah, it felt good to think about these things this morning because I'm also like in this energy of cultivating this in my life. So I was like, ah, this is me having a relationship with the universe, saying, yeah, bring me these things. This all feels good to me. So thank you for that. Yeah, no, don't DM me.
• 13:45
  Speaker A: You will though. They'll be like, no, no, it's me.
• 13:48
  Speaker B: You just described me. I swear.
• 13:49
  Speaker A: I swear. That's awesome. I want to just reflect something. As you were describing the first part, I would see you that way. Kind of athletic, kind of spiritual. Obviously, like all those things you're describing. Masculine, deep voice. I'm like, yeah, that's Matt. So that definitely sounds like you.
• 14:11
  Speaker C: Well, you know what's interesting too is the sign of the Gemini is the twin sign. And they say we're always looking for our twin, like the person that kind of completes the other half of us. Because Geminis tend to come into the world like half and then we're looking for our balance. So doesn't surprise me. Yeah.
• 14:28
  Speaker A: Marina, how about you? What. What kind of guys are you typically attracted to? What makes your heart flutter?
• 14:33
  Speaker B: Well, they. First of all, not. That was very thorough and specific.
• 14:39
  Speaker A: I was like, wow, okay, he's calling it in. He's calling it in.
• 14:43
  Speaker C: I'm calling it in.
• 14:44
  Speaker B: I know, yeah. And. And I appreciated it because it gave me some things to like. I was like, oh, I forgot that piece. Or like, oh, that's a piece I hadn't considered. So thank you. Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker A: Cool.
• 14:56
  Speaker B: Yeah. So, well, I'll start by saying someone I respect and enjoy and cherish and someone who enjoys, respects and cherishes me. I think, like, like point blank, that feels really important. There's. There are a few archetypes that really stand out to me, and so one of them is Andrew Scholz. Now he's a comedian and if, if, like. Oh, yes, feel free, feel free to tag him. Like, I know he's taken, but you can just let him know that, like. I see, I see you, Andrew.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: I'm looking it up. I'm looking at.
• 15:46
  Speaker C: Isn't he straight?
• 15:48
  Speaker B: He's straight. And he's married too, I think.
• 15:50
  Speaker C: And he's so funny. He's hilarious.
• 15:52
  Speaker B: But this is the thing, this guy is hilarious. He's smart, he's tall, he's sexy. And I think, most importantly, this is a big thing for me when I can see myself just having a good time with someone. Yeah, I'm like, that's hot. And, you know, like, no shade. Like, he's like, he's handsome, but he's also like this sort of tall, gangly man, you know, But I, I just find his confidence and his wit and like, he's, he's intellectual, but he's also like, funny and doesn't take himself too seriously. And I feel like he could just really hold his own in life at large. And that's like, really hot to me. I'm sure he could chop wood, right? But I feel like it's not something he's like, like if we were stuck on an island together, like, he could hold it down, you know, and, and yet, like, I'm sure he's not actively chopping wood. Like, the dude's like a city, a city boy, right? But for some reason, there's something about this guy. Like, there's many qualities about him that seem to like, fit this archetype. Another person who I'm really hot for is, is Kevin Hart. Also a comedian, also really smart, also business oriented. You know, he works out too. So does Andrew. And like, and he's funny. And I could just see us having a good time together and also like, building together, and that's really attractive. And then, and then my last one, I don't know, a lot about this guy, but, like, Odell Beckham Jr. He's a football player, and the guy's super hot. Great style, you know, he, like. He strikes me as someone who has really great personal hygiene as well. I would say that about all three of these guys, in fact, because personal hygiene, huge for me. Like, I have to like the way you smell. You know, it's important to me that you take care of yourself. I'm not saying that, like, you need to be going and getting, like, manicures and pedicures and lineups, like, every week or something, right? But if that's your thing, that's great, but just like, someone who takes care of themselves, you know, like, wash your ass, brush your teeth. Like, you know, maybe. Maybe deodorant. Like, maybe, but not necessarily, because if you have a good diet and I like the way you smell, like, I've been with some dudes who don't wear deodorant, and I'm like, I will bury my face in that shit, you know, because it smells good. And I think I've learned that that's also a sign that I know someone's a fit is like, if I like the way they smell, it's weird. But if I don't like the way you smell, like, we're probably not going to be together. I'll be honest.
• 19:02
  Speaker C: Exactly.
• 19:03
  Speaker B: Yeah. And, like. And I don't think it's like a cologne. Like, I don't think it's a, like, put on deodorant or cover it up with cologne thing. It's like a pheromone thing. But I just. I learned that with this last guy I was spending time with, I was like, damn. I didn't realize how important smell was to me until we started spending time together. And this guy's like this sort of backwards type, but he smelled so good. I just, like, loved smelling him. Oh, it was great. Yeah. So also, like, you know, I said humor, intellect, emotional and spiritual intelligence and sensitivity, strength and body, mind and spirit. Someone who's cheeky, witty, mischievous. Like, you know, those all fall under a similar umbrella for me. Someone who's curious and like. And has a degree of openness is really important. Compassion, that's a big one. Sense of adventure. Also a big one. Connection and relationship to God and spirituality that needs to be there. And it's not like, I'm not saying you have to wake up every day and meditate and, like, you know, all that shit, but just like, I'd love a guy who, like, uses God in his vocabulary. Like, that'd be great and even better if we could, like, maybe I don't go to church all the time, but I'd be open to, like, going, doing something of that nature with, you know, the man I'm attracted to.
• 20:40
  Speaker C: I didn't know that about you.
• 20:41
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. It's funny because it's just. It's there. I don't talk about it a lot, though. Grounded and stable. Masculine and also connected to their feminine. But, like, a leading. The leading energy would preferably be a masculine one. But I don't discriminate, you know, because there have been some, like, feminine types who just. They really own it, and I find that really attractive. And it throws me into my masculine, and I'm totally comfortable being in that space, but I'd say masculine is my preference. And then I think I've written something here about how I like a guy who's, you know, like, six feet tall, like, either end on the inside and outside, you know? So, like, I like someone like Kevin Hart, for example. Like, he's shorter, right? But the guy's like 10ft tall on the inside, and that's hot, you know? And genuinely, like, I don't think he's, like, walking around, like, trying to be. He just embodies this, like, you know, this, like, bigness on the inside that exudes outward. And to me, that's hot. So you could be, like, five, seven, like me. And I'm cool with it if you're, like, walking through the world, you know, with, like, upright, big nose, big hands, big feet, you know? You know, because I have this image of my guy, like, smacking and rubbing on my ass, like on the beach or like, in the kitchen. Like, I love when I'm at the kitchen sink or, like, I'm cooking dinner and, like, he just walks in and gives me a smack on the ass, you know, or, like, just wraps his hands and his arms around me while I'm, like, standing at the counter or something like that and just gives me a nice squeeze. I'm like, oof. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think that's. I think that's essentially it. I think I've covered it. Yeah.
• 22:49
  Speaker A: You guys are both turning me on here with these.
• 22:52
  Speaker B: I hope so.
• 22:52
  Speaker A: So thorough.
• 22:54
  Speaker B: Prove it.
• 22:57
  Speaker A: And reno, are your DMs open? Because I'm sure you're also going to get a bunch of dms now.
• 23:01
  Speaker B: Well, okay, we'll see. Yeah, yeah, they're open.
• 23:06
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 23:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:08
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, I love that you guys are so thorough. So I I took this question in a slightly different approach because we decided what last week that this was the topic. Like, we just decided.
• 23:17
  Speaker B: Thank you, Mike.
• 23:17
  Speaker A: Recently.
• 23:18
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: So this week, knowing that we're going to be talking about it, I thought, okay, I'm going to go through my week thinking about crushes, because that's kind of how we had talked about it. So instead of, like, all these wonderful descriptive words that you guys used about your attraction, which, by the way, you know, for the record, I'm gonna just say yes to all of that. Like, all that was so good. And I'm gonna put my stamp on that too. But I kind of answered it from, like, what kind of guys do I find myself, like, crushing on? So that's how I'm gonna answer it.
• 23:48
  Speaker C: Cool. Yeah.
• 23:49
  Speaker A: And I know that this is cliche, but I don't have a type. Like, I don't have a narrow type. It's easier for me to say what I don't like than what I do because it could be lots of different kinds of people. So I was at an event on Saturday at a nightclub. So I'm like, okay, let's see. Let's see who catches my eye. And my eyes were more drawn to. And I'm not too surprised about this. My heart kind of flutters for the guys who blend in. Like, they're not the center of attention. They're not typically the ones that you would think someone's eyes would be drawn to. But that's where my eyes go. My eyes go to where the other ones don't kind of thing. So kind of the more shy guys, or the way I perceive them as maybe shy, definitely guys who kind of look nerdy. There's a guy wearing this, like, super, like, kind of geeky shirt. Like, that had some kind of graphic on. I'm like, oh, my God, that is so cute to wear to gay bar glasses. Love glasses. Kind of sweet. Sweet boys, like, they. They look humble. They're still sexy, of course, but they kind of blend in. And who knows? Like Matt was saying, like, who knows in the bedroom what they're like? But they kind of just have this. Not, like, more meek, I would say, like, especially in the context of a nightclub. Also, big noses was something I noticed. Like, oh, all these guys that I'm looking at have big. No. So that's interesting. And like a. A shy, asymmetrical smile.
• 25:12
  Speaker C: Interesting.
• 25:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 25:13
  Speaker C: So I can relate to that.
• 25:15
  Speaker A: Yeah. Like, something Just the way they smile, kind of, like, off balance a little bit. Makes sense. I'm Very turned on by that. And also, not that I have any size preferences whatsoever, but I do tend to like more than most because you guys both said, like, they need to be tall. I'm. I have nos. Like, if they're like, 5, 6, 5, 5, that's hot.
• 25:33
  Speaker C: That's fine for me.
• 25:34
  Speaker A: Or they could be six, three. That's fine for me, too. But I tend to like shorter guys more than I would say the average man does. So that's at a nightclub. That was on Saturday. Then I was at the gym. So this is a bit of a different one. This is where I actually do have crushes, because I go to the gym regularly, so I see the same kinds of people over and over again. And I do have gym crushes. And there's a lot of. I know there's a lot of you that listen to this podcast at the gym, so maybe you're listening. So there's guys I see there often, and, like, when I make eyes with them, like, when I see them there, I'm like, yeah, it's gonna be a good day today. Like, they're here. At the same time, I get so excited. Like, I feel like a school girl. And this is how I know it's a crush, because I'm like, oh, they're here. This is fun. And then, like, it's especially, you know, my heart flutters especially hard if they give me the, like, head nod, like, sub or hey. Or like, if we're just. We just catch eyes or something. I'm like, oh, my God, you noticed me. And then. Don't even. Don't even get me started. If we're, like, in the locker room beside each other, if we happen to just be changing at the same time. Oh, girl.
• 26:41
  Speaker C: Like, I gotta hold everything down. Yeah.
• 26:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. I gotta hold everything down because it's coming up. So those kinds of guys are kind of like what you guys have described. Like, you know, they. They have a. Swagger is a good word that I would use. It's not necessarily a physical type, because it could be young, old, short, tall, muscular, not muscular. It doesn't really matter. It's that way they carry themselves with confidence and swagger. Those are generally the types that I find myself drawn to. But, yeah, I definitely got some gym crushes, for sure.
• 27:15
  Speaker C: Yeah. I want to add, not performative swagger either. Like the performative swagger. Like the ego swagger, if I'm so turned off by that. But it's just organic, natural confidence. Like, they just have that, and it's an energy you can feel it, and you can feel when people are performing it from. At least I can.
• 27:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I go to a gym that's. There's a lot of gay guys, but there's a lot of straight guys, and it's really hard to tell. And that is a bit of a turn on. Well, a lot of a turn on for me is like, the mystery of, ooh, are they. Do I have a shot here or do I not? But that's not hot.
• 27:50
  Speaker C: Yeah. I love that.
• 27:54
  Speaker B: If I ran into you at the gym, Michael, we'd be in trouble.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so, for sure. I haven't met you first yet, but I. I know that we have that mischief thing in common, and we would get into some mischief.
• 28:07
  Speaker B: I think so, for sure. I think so.
• 28:09
  Speaker C: Yeah. Actually, the three of us do. I'm mischievous as well. It just takes a bit to come out.
• 28:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I've seen that.
• 28:16
  Speaker A: And actually, going. Going back to your. I was thinking about this, Matt. When you're talking about your walk, you have a. You have a unique walk. I think it's sexy, like, because you're. You've got a butt.
• 28:25
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker A: As you're listening, you're getting really excited. Matt's got a really nice butt, and so when he walks it, like, it flows really nice.
• 28:32
  Speaker C: Oh, that's funny.
• 28:33
  Speaker B: Thanks, Michael.
• 28:34
  Speaker C: Yeah, that's got ass. You know what's funny? Yeah, yeah. Those are my. My assets, for sure. I used to. I used to not let my butt do that. Like, so when I was younger, I was walking. I think I shared this story, but I can't even remember. Maybe it wasn't even on this podcast, but when I was probably 15, 14, 15, I was walking and my friends were behind me. I used to hang out with a lot of girls, and they would be like, look at. And I wasn't out at this time either. They're like, look at Matt's hips move when he walks. He. He walks like he's gay or something like that. And I was like, oh. Like, right away. I was like, okay, correct that. And I started walking with, like, no flow in my hips and started to get a lot of hip pain and lower back pain. So, yes, I'm glad my hips were back to being flowy.
• 29:20
  Speaker A: Let them flow.
• 29:21
  Speaker C: Let them flow.
• 29:23
  Speaker A: All right, guys, let's talk about how we express these feelings to two people that we crush on. So, yeah, let's start off with Matt.
• 29:31
  Speaker C: So how do I express my feelings to guys that I'm interested in? So I am very direct. I'm a direct communicator. I say exactly what's going on for me. And I've always really been like that. So I will just say, like, yeah, I'm, I'm into you. I'm crushing on you. It's interesting because I feel a little bit like new being back to this because for the last while I haven't and like years, I haven't really had many crushes and I haven't had a lot of desire. I've been doing a lot of deep healing work and it's almost like my, my libido went a bit dormant and now it's starting to come back online again and it's like, so this, I do feel like a new person coming and meeting this again. So it's like really interesting. But yes, very, very curious. Like I said prior, I, I would always ask a ton of questions. I take a very strong interest in people. I have very, very strong eye contact. When I'm into somebody, like, I'll, I'll like, make sure that they know, like I'm very into them, giving them a lot of attention, a lot of time, a lot of my energy. I text a lot with somebody that I'm into. That's like sharing pictures, you know, of like, just like my day, how things are going. Like, I love that. And then also like sharing sexy photos as well. And I think like a big aspect of it for me would be like letting them in, like letting them into my world. Like, I'm very, I have, I have strong gates to my life and I have a very close, tight knit circle and not anybody can just get into that circle for me. So it's like when I'm, when somebody will know I like them, when I'm like willing to let them into my world. You know, if you've met my best friend, then you probably are in to my circle, that sort of thing. And very much family. Like, if you've met my family, like you're in. Because that would be something that would happen a lot later and connecting with somebody. So, yeah, that's pretty, pretty much it for me. Yeah. What about you, Reno?
• 31:36
  Speaker B: My mind just went somewhere else for a moment. I wanted to clarify something just in case it wasn't clear earlier. Andrew Schs. If you're listening and, and if, if you're, if your partner is listening as well, totally respect y'all. I'm just saying your man is fine. But, but with that, this is one of the ways that I express. I'm Interested in someone. I'm direct. I just say it, and I show interest in them. Like, I'm. I'm interested, I'm curious, I'm connected, I'm playful, I'm flirtatious. And generally, like, once connection is established, if I feel I'm attracted to a guy, I'll just tell him that I find him attractive, you know, that I'm interested, and then I'm curious about exploring that attraction further if. If he's up for it, you know, I'm pretty straightforward, honestly. Like, I. I wouldn't say I don't really hold back. And like, this sort of thing requires courage, like, even when connection is established. But I feel like, even more so when, like, I'm approaching someone, say, like, at the gym or at the bar or out on the street. It's definitely required more courage when I'm not feeling connected to them. But, yeah, I've just found, like, being genuine goes a really long way. Like, just being really genuine and really honest about how I'm feeling and really direct. I think that I've seen guys just really appreciate that and it seems to work. Yeah. What about you, Michael?
• 33:37
  Speaker A: So you would. You would just walk up to somebody at a bar and, like, you'd be the one to initiate?
• 33:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, I have. Well, actually, thanks for asking that. Yeah, I would say yes, but speaking to the more, let's say, the more feminine part of me now, that's where, like, I kind of. I use subtle, like, cues. Like I make eye contact or I smile or I, like, my body speaks as well, like how I move or, you know, at the gym, for example, back in the day, I used to get, like. I used to get turned on and, like, visibly, visibly turned on. And so that just communicated immediately that I was into somewhere. And they followed me right into the steam room. And it was odd. So, yeah, my body. And then at the club, I find, like, when I'm dancing, it's pretty potent. Like, if I want, you know, if I want someone to see that I'm interested, interested in them, or I want to kind of, like draw someone in, it's got to hit the dance floor. And usually it's just like, it works like a magnet. And funny enough, straight guys come up to me too. It's like, women, like straight women, lesbian women, straight guys, some gay guys, some gay guys. But, like, it's the weirdest thing. There have been a lot of, like, lesbian women, straight men and straight women who seem to just, like, flock to me. And it's a really interesting experience. Or. Or they'll, like, low key, say something. Like later, like, when I'm off the dance floor, like, a straight dude will come up to me and be like, man, like, you really know how to move your hips. Like, it was. It was great watching you dance. I'm like, thanks.
• 35:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, we definitely get into mischief. Okay, cool. So I. I again answered it from the perspective of these. These crushes that I had over the last week. So for sure, me, it's the eye contact. I let my eyes do all the talking. I have very expressive eyes. You know, I can just stare somebody into submission. No, I'm just kidding. I don't do that. Other people do that to me, and I find it creepy. I do not stare, but I will. I can let my eyes kind of give you what I'm asking for. So I can give you friendly and warm. I can give you mischief. I can give you coy and shy and demure. I can give you assertive and dominant. I can give it right. So I let my eyes kind of do that. Especially if it's like a dance club situation or a gym, like, where I'm not necessarily speaking to them. I don't know who they are. Now, if I'm feeling brave, then I will go walk up and introduce myself. So if the crush has been, like, happening for, like, let's say it's just been going on all night, or it's been like, I just can't keep my eyes off this person, then I will go talk to them. Not at the gym. I won't do that at the gym. But at a bar situation, I will, because I find that's more appropriate.
• 36:45
  Speaker C: It.
• 36:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I actually have two examples of how me having this kind of eye contact over time and then me introducing myself to the person has been actually how. I met two of my partners, previous exes, and we worked together for years after, so it's worth it. The first time was at a park. He was reading. He was so cute. Glasses has a little picnic all set up, and he's reading a book. And I was there kind of maybe 10ft away. Matt. It's the park that we went to, actually. Yeah. And yeah, he was probably about 10ft away, and I just could not keep my eyes off him. And he was reading. And I'm like, oh, like, be still my heart. A man who reads in the park. Yes. And yeah. So eventually, like, I was thinking. I remember thinking, like, is it creepy to go talk to him? I have to go talk to him. If he leaves, then I'm never gonna forgive myself. I'm never gonna see him again. So I did and I went to go talk to him and, you know, I was like, hey, come here often? Just like one of those. Anyway, long story short, we ended up together for probably about two years, so it's worth it.
• 37:44
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 37:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 37:45
  Speaker C: Yeah, I remember you. You told me that story when we were in that park. Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
• 37:51
  Speaker A: Probably my favorite one though is when I met my other ex. And this was like, talk about boy crazy. Like, all of my friends will say I've never seen Michael so Twitter painted then when I won't say his name. So I had. I was going Christmas shopping and I was. He worked in retail at the time. And as soon as I walked in the store, we met eyes and it was just like explosions and just like what you see in Disney kind of movies. And so naturally I just kept going to the store almost every day, Christmas shopping. And all of my gifts that year for were from one store because I just needed an excuse to keep going in and seeing him. And I find excuses to ask him questions and I'd wait for like, when he was available to ask him. And so once Chris Christmas was over, Christmas Eve, I thought, oh, this is it. I have no more excuses to come to the store. I'm not going to see him anymore. And so I wrote a Christmas card and I knew he'd be working Christmas Eve because it's the busiest day of the year. And in the Christmas card, I said something like, thank you for all your help this Christmas season. You've been, you know, such a joy to work with. You know, I'm going to go out on a limb and here's my number if you like. I want to see you again after this. So here's my number, you know, please text me. And I ran into the store on Christmas Eve, I gave him the card and I scurried out of there so fast, I didn't even see his reactions. Like, here you go. Gone off. I was. And that night I did Christmas dinner with my family as I always do, but my phone was glued to my. Like I was at the dinner table like this and I had my phone on my lap just in case anyone texted or called. And like, I could not keep my eyes off my phone. So surely enough, at about 9 o'clock he did text me. He was single and interested and we went on our first date on Boxing Day and that was that.
• 39:39
  Speaker C: How long were you guys together?
• 39:42
  Speaker A: On and off, probably like five or six years. But we Had.
• 39:45
  Speaker C: Oh, this is the guy. This is the.
• 39:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. The one that I've talked about many times on this podcast.
• 39:50
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 39:51
  Speaker C: That's so cute. What an amazing story.
• 39:54
  Speaker A: So go for it, guys. My point is, go for it. You never know. I've been, like, rejected a thousand times as well, but guess what? I don't remember any of those people.
• 40:01
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 40:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So because you shared that, I feel like it's so interesting. Like, I want to share more. I want to share a particular experience, actually. So there's. There's one in which, like, I moved in with this cute Australian guy who lives in. Used to live in the house I live in. I don't know if I've talked about him on here before or not, but I think it was within my first or second week in this house. I moved in February. Valentine's Day is, like, my favorite holiday, one of my favorite holidays. And I asked him to be my Valentine, and he actually said yes. And he's straight, but I just was crushing on this guy so hard. I was like, I just want to be in closeness to you. So he. We ended up, like, going on this cute little date for Valentine's. And, yeah, it was. It was really sweet. Like, he bought me a gift. I bought him a gift. Like, we held hands at one point, too, and it was just, like. It was really, really sweet. And he's still my dear friend to this day. But there's another story. I met this guy at a barbecue, and so I don't know if I've shared this on here, but I saw this guy, and he's like, you know, he's, like, toned, long brown hair, he's French, and he was doing all these, like, flow, like, movement stuff. And I remember seeing him doing this, and I kind of, like, I was intrigued, but I also kind of rolled my eyes because I was just like, yeah, whatever. He's like one of these guys or something. And then later, we ended up talking and we had this amazing conversation, and he was, like, living out of his SUV because he's, like, nomadic. And so we ended up. We ended up. I said to him, if you need a place to park and. Or, like, shower or whatever, like. Like, you can come use my place. Right? You seem cool. I've done the van life thing before. I get it. So he's like, oh, thanks. And we kept in touch. We ended up hanging out. We did this, like, adventure into Lynn Canyon here on the west coast, and. And then we went out to dinner after, and we get out of the vehicle, and we're walking to the place where we're going to go eat. And I said to him, at this point, I knew I was, like, feeling this guy. And I said to him, I said, you know, there's something I want to share with you before we go into the restaurant. I said, and, you know, we're probably going to have a cocktail or something. So I want to say this to you while I'm sober, because that feels in integrity. And this was like. This was back when I drank. I didn't drink anymore. And. But I said to him, you know, I want to say this to you while I'm sober. I find you attractive. And if you're interested, I would like to invite you back to my place, like, later on tonight at the end of the night. And he said, let me think about it, and I'll let you know. Thank you for sharing that. And so when we were in the restaurant, he says to me. He says to me, so just to let you know, I didn't say, let me think about it because I didn't want to. I said it because I have things to do tomorrow morning, and I know that if I come home with you, we're probably not going to sleep. Right. I was like, okay. So he got it. We got it. We're both on the same page. So he ended up dropping me off, and he kissed me good night. And I was like, whoa, okay, there's something here. Cool. And then, like, I won't get into the details, but essentially we ended up spending more time together. And he took me on this amazing adventure to, like, this sauna in the woods. He gave me a blowjob in the woods. It was amazing. I was. We were in a sauna, and he gave me a blowjob. It was brilliant. And I think I've shared this on here before, but. But again, this is like one of those stories where, you know, it can. Like, sometimes you get rejected and sometimes you get. Magic.
• 44:33
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 44:33
  Speaker B: You know, like, totally unexpected magic, you know? So like, Michael, like Michael said, go for it. Go for it.
• 44:41
  Speaker A: You have more to gain then you have to lose, in my opinion. Yeah.
• 44:45
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker A: But on that topic, how do we handle unreciprocated feelings? And this is the big thing, right? Like, the reason why people, I think, don't want to engage or don't want to tell people how they feel is because of that fear of rejection. What if I make myself look silly? What if they judge me? What if I got this all wrong? So how do we handle that, man?
• 45:04
  Speaker C: I just want to say one thing because I just had a bit of a realization. So I. I said I'm very direct, and I am very direct, but I'm usually direct behind my phone. I don't approach guys in person, actually. So what I'll do is I'll. I'll give them signs like, reno you, like you said. And then I'll. I'll want them to come up to me, I think go more into my feminine actually in person. And I want the guys to approach me and come up to me. It's interesting. So when, because of that, I do experience this where I have to handle un unreciprocated feelings because guys will approach me and actually I think I have a pretty approachable energy. So this happens quite a bit. Like if I go out to things, people will come up to me and believe it or not, it's actually usually women. Women always come up to me and I'm like, oh, honey. I'm like, no. Yeah. But I just. That's an easy one. It's like, I'm not gay, so it's like that. It's an easy way to handle that. So with a guy that is gay that comes up to me and I'm not into it, you know, I always lead with so much compassion because again, like, why do. Why don't I go up to guys when I'm there? It's like there's a fear of rejection. So I'll always affirm them and just say like, thank you so much. I'm super flattered and I just want to like, applaud the courage that it took you to come up and make this advance. Like, that's usually what I'll say because it's like, it really is a big deal for somebody to come up and. And put themselves on the line. So that's usually how I'll handle it. And then I'll just be direct again because the old me maybe would have like, you know, like, felt bad, you know, and like, maybe given them my number and then, I don't know, like, you know, it's. I just think it's so good to.
• 46:41
  Speaker B: Do, like, let me throw you a mercy F. Yeah, right.
• 46:44
  Speaker C: It's like, no, like, no, no, no, no, no. So not. I don't. I don't do that stuff anymore. So very direct. And I'll just be like, hey, like, I'm not really feeling the spark or the alignment that I need to. And I always try and be honest because I think some people, like lie. Like, oh, no, I have a boyfriend and they don't, you know, and it's like, I would rather just be in integrity and just speak up. And then sometimes, like, for, like, you know, I can usually feel if people are crushing on me, like, on. In the online world and, like, liking my stuff and, like, you know, trying to slide into my DMs and things like that. So I'll usually, you know, either be direct or if I don't need to be direct, because there hasn't been an actual direct advancement, I'll just pull away my. My attention or my time or whatever because I'm like, I don't want to mislead people and then believe it or not, too. Like, I always leave the door open for friendship because some of my. My best gay male friends are guys that we. Maybe we went on a Tinder date or whatever, and that's how we connected. And there was not. There was no chemistry or whatever, and we ended up developing a really nice friendship. So I never like to throw the baby out with the bathwater because it's like, sometimes, like, the connection can really nicely translate into a friends. Sometimes not, though. It takes a lot of maturity, I think, for that to happen. But, yeah, so those are some of the ways that I deal with it. What about you, Reno?
• 48:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know, you've got me thinking about, like, how this works in both directions. So I want to. I want to touch on that. I think when I had feelings or, like, a crush on someone else in the past, like, and it was unreciprocated, I think it would. It would have sent me into sort of a spiral because I remember being the kid who, like, one person wouldn't like me, and. And, like, maybe the majority would, and I'd be focused on the person who didn't like me. And I come home and be like, mom, you know, like, I don't understand why this person doesn't like me. And I'd be trying to, like, win them over. And I really empathize with that kid. You know, I'm. I understand these days. I'm like, you know, it's cool. It's not like, I recognize that it's not personal. I recognize that it's not personal and it's not about me. And I also welcome direct feedback because I think this is something that we don't do, and. And I think if it's invited and welcome, then, like, you know, bring it on. But, yeah, feedback about, like, something that I have the power to change or improve on, you know? And generally speaking, What I've seen is I don't think if a person I'm into, like, or sorry, if, yeah, if, if I were to change something about myself, the person that I'm into would suddenly be into me. I, I don't necessarily think it works that way. Way. But I appreciate people reflecting how they experience me back to me and taking that in and you know, at least, at least considering it and at most maybe applying some of that. So yeah, now I'm. I would say, like, I've always been pretty kind and compassionate it. When it comes to the reverse. Because I know what it feels like to be rejected, to have unreciprocated, you know, feelings or to experience unreciprocated feelings. So I'm just, I'm really kind and I'm. And I'm honest as well for the most part. I've ghosted some people. I'm not gonna lie, like, because I'm just like. I don't want to deal with that. You know, it's too uncomfortable. And so I've just kind of like, like I've not been honest or I've just kind of like ghosted. And you know, if you're listening, I'm sorry. Not my best work. But I'm growing, you know, I've, I've evolved. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah. What about you, Michael?
• 51:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I love that you guys both said it. And I say kindness either way. Whatever way you're. If you're the one who's saying no or the one who's being rejected. Um, just kindness is always a nice, nice thing to lead with, whatever the case. Um, when I've been on the. I answered it from when I've been on the one who has the feelings and they're not reciprocated. It feels fucking awful. That's, that's it. That's all I can say. It feels terrible. Um, and yeah, like, you know, it's. It's hard at the beginning not to take it personally. Like I, I get to the part where like, it's okay obviously eventually, but in that moment it's like I just want to sink into a hole and bury myself and like never see the light of day again. But that goes away. Like, that's where the self compassion comes into play. Like I can, I can take it and let it hurt and like tell myself all the stories about what I think is obviously I'm the problem and all that, but that's a perfect opportunity to practice self compassion, to practice the things I teach Having your own back, being your own best friend, like, holding yourself through it because it is painful. It does hurt. The feelings are valid. You can indulge in them. You can, you know, make it worse for yourself. Or you could just kind of say, okay. What I do is like, okay, this is what. This is what rejection feels like, or, this is what pain feels like, or whatever it is I'm feeling, I'll just sit with it and say, yeah, okay, this is me having that experience. It's not pleasant. It's not supposed to be, but I can kind of gently hold myself through it. So I try to use it for me, if that makes any sense. And like I said, it doesn't. Doesn't mean, like, oh, yay, like, a minute later. I'm fine. I'm not. I'm usually stewing for a little while, but it is a good opportunity, and I think that builds empathy for, like, you guys had said, when the opposite happens, to let someone down gently and say, oh, thank you so much. Like, I'm honored. Thank you. But actually, I'm, you know, not interested or whatever that may be. What I will say not to do is don't keep trying, because then I don't get kind anymore. Like, if people try and sometimes I get it, like, I'll be like, oh, no, no. I'm gonna try again. Like, maybe I need to do this differently, and I'm tempted to want to try again, and I have to, like, shut that part of me down, because it's not cool. It's not cool. And people keep trying, and you want to, like, win them over. Just don't do that. Guys. I've been there.
• 53:21
  Speaker B: I saw your steam room video.
• 53:22
  Speaker A: Yes. Oh, my God.
• 53:23
  Speaker B: You shut down. Shut it down.
• 53:27
  Speaker A: That's. That's a good video. There's more of those coming up, so stay tuned.
• 53:30
  Speaker C: Yay.
• 53:32
  Speaker A: Okay, guys, any final words before I wrap this up?
• 53:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. Permission to slide in my DMs. I will compassionately, you know, redirect you if you're not a fit, if we're not a fit. But if you're listening a single. Ready to mingle. Yeah, that's. And thank you.
• 53:56
  Speaker A: I'm gonna put this Reno's calling card episode right.
• 54:00
  Speaker B: This is it. That's actually why I'm here, to be honest. Like, I'm not. Yeah. I'm here for the DMs.
• 54:06
  Speaker C: Yeah. That's cute.
• 54:10
  Speaker A: Matt, Anything for you. No, no.
• 54:17
  Speaker C: I feel complete.
• 54:19
  Speaker A: All right, guys, thank you, viewer, listener, for staying with us on this one. Thank you to my Wise Award Wonderful co hosts for making me laugh and giving us all of their insights for our audience. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us five stars Wherever you're listening to us, comment, like and subscribe. This helps us get into the eyes and ears of people who need it. For those of you who want to continue this conversation, join us in the Zoom Hangout at the end of the month. The link to get on our email list is in the show notes and that'll be emailed to you. So thank you so much and have a good one. See you next time.