Latest / The Payments Shed / Ep. 71 - We Have A Meeting on Why Cold Calling Isn’t Dead: Sales, Social Media and Storytelling in 2026

Transcript

Ep. 71 - We Have A Meeting on Why Cold Calling Isn’t Dead: Sales, Social Media and Storytelling in 2026 · The Payments Shed

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  Welcome to the Payment Shed Podcast, the weekly podcast that
• 0:03
  dives into the big topics, trends and people shaping the
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  worlds of payments, fintech and business leadership with your
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  two Co hosts, myself Grant Evans and Justin Hannah.
• 0:13
  Welcome back to the Payment Shed podcast.
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  We are mixing it up a little bit today with some non payments and
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  fintech content. We are joined by Jack Frimson,
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  Zach Thompson, Co founders of we have a meeting.
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  Welcome to the show guys. Thanks for having us.
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  Thank you for joining us. You guys want a mission to
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  modernise sales. I would say cold calling to
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  content, personal brands and how sellers actually connect with
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  their target customers in 2026. I just wanted to start with
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  finding out the journey that you guys went on when you decided to
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  walk away from the day jobs and Co found a business together.
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  Shall I kick off? Yeah, I think your best place to
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  kick off. OK so me and Jack have been best
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  friends since we were 15, so really long time, went to school
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  together. So that's the first thing.
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  If we put a pin in that, we'll come back to that.
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  We both pursued music and thought we'd be rock stars, more
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  pop star for Jack. And in pursuing that, who is
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  hiring while you're pursuing that sales, right?
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  So we had different sales jobs and Jack can maybe talk about a
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  bit about what he was doing in the end as well.
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  And pandemic hit and I was a salesperson stuck in my bedroom
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  selling for someone else, taking 510% of the Commission and a
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  little brain wave hit of I wonder if I could do this for
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  lots of businesses and take a little cut of what lots of
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  businesses are doing. So I just started sort of
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  throwing it out there to people I was chatting to in sales
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  meetings, like, oh, if I came in and was a salesperson for you
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  fractionally, would there be anything in that?
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  And people are biting my hand. Oh my God, if you could do what
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  you've done to me, getting a meeting with me and having a
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  call as, oh, am I going to pay you tomorrow?
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  Interesting. Next person, same thing, next
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  person, same thing. I was like, right, shit, there's
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  some, there's something in this. So I had one month's wage,
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  fourth child on the way. How old are you?
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  I'm 30, nearly 34 and I need to get ATV.
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  And I said to my, I said to my, my wife, I'm thinking of doing
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  this. And my wife luckily is so
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  supportive and just didn't give me any of the risk or any of
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  like that. Let's think about this.
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  Let's worry about this. And was like yeah, give it a go,
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  see what happens. So I used to lie awake at night
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  thinking is now the right time, I'm going to do it.
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  What happens if it all goes wrong?
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  First day picked up the phone, 9 calls and spoke to a guy in that
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  like weird Wolf of Wall Street moment.
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  He said the words, if you can genuinely do that for me, I will
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  pay you right now. And then from there it was like
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  off to the races. Do you want to take over with
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  where you were in this? We can do the little sliding
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  doors moment. And so I would.
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  I'd been working on a cruise ship as a singer.
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  I'd been in a boy band for six years before trying my best to
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  do Gary Barlow, Robbie Williams didn't make it, Got dropped in
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  the boy band, went on the cruise ships as a singer.
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  Pandemic hit. Obviously there are no need for
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  boy band singers on a cruise ship in a pandemic.
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  So I was like, what do I do? Went back to Manchester and,
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  and, and, and settled based there and I got a job in sales
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  because that was the only thing that was hiring in the pandemic.
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  I was like, fucking, I've ended up back here.
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  I was making it music. I was travelling around Miami.
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  It was the absolute dream. And the job I was working in was
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  commercial insurance. And I can say it was a very
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  toxic environment, but I was like, I'm just here until
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  something better comes along. I was thinking, what do I want
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  to do next? Do I want to maybe go into like
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  podcast production? Do I do music again?
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  I went and did a stand up comedy course thinking I might have
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  been the next James A Carter. All of these, like different
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  ideas flying around. And then obviously being my best
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  friend since we were 15, we still spoke every single day.
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  I got a text off Zach one day saying I've had a brain wave
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  like a good friend. I said, are you OK?
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  And he said this what I'm going to do.
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  And I said that sounds amazing. Go and do it.
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  Keep me, keep me posted, we'll keep chatting.
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  I would always ring Zach like a a Wednesday when I'm walking
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  home and we'd have these long talks.
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  He'd be walking the dog. And it got to a point where he
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  was like, I'm at like 5 clients. I can't take on any more client.
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  I'm thinking of hiring. Your job sounds absolutely shit.
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  Why don't you, why don't you come on board and and join me
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  And like, well, I'd still. And there's a long message that
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  I sent Zach like, and it sounds really good, but I'd love an out
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  because what happens if I do music again and it takes off
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  this time? And like, I don't want to leave
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  you in the lurch. And it was like these awkward
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  conversations and I travelled down to visit Zach and and it
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  was like a case of let's just go for it.
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  Let's let's give it a go. And I said, I'll give you one
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  year. So from like November to
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  November, if it takes off, fine, whatever.
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  Ended up joining him in the January very much like Zach.
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  The first thing we did was a podcast that day, very slow day,
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  didn't pick up the phone. I, I diverted the cold call into
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  the afternoon like every good salesperson.
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  And I had a very similar response to Zach of I don't know
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  if this is going to work this style that you're saying the PB
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  OS are like, I don't know if people are going to respond to
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  it. The therapy selling.
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  And by the end of the day, I booked 2 meetings.
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  I think I rang Zach and said, Oh my God, this stuff actually
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  works. And then from there, I was like,
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  we, we, we're on a journey. Did the pandemic present a bit
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  of an opportunity when people were still, we was just going on
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  in pandemics, people maybe still like obviously not back in
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  offices and stuff like you may be easier to get hold of in some
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  way, shape or form. Is that it?
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  What's interesting was right at the end, right?
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  And I think the opportunity presented is I'll, I'll just
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  give you like the, the censored version of the I think the
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  opportunity was presented. You 2 have probably worked in
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  industries like this as well where the style of selling is
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  let me take out my dream clients or potential prospects once 1/4
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  and do terrible things with them and get them really drunk once
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  1/4 right? And that's the thing.
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  And I've got this little black book of relationships that I do
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  that with people on. You couldn't do that anymore.
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  So exposed this like, oh, there's not really many very
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  good sales people. You can get me in front of
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  people anymore. And that was the opportunity
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  that presented. It was just this massive gulf
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  of, oh, there's no one that's willing to do this.
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  So there was this demand thing and there was no supply.
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  And that was what the opportunity was.
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  And then if you could crack the people waking from home, but you
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  were, you were laughing. What kind of were the the early
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  challenges that that you kind of ran into that you didn't expect
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  to have Like you mentioned your nervous it might not work right,
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  which is fine. But as it started getting on,
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  did you kind of run into something and Go wasn't
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  expecting that to happen? I think the challenges were also
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  like opportunities. So there's like a trade off now
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  we're very lucky to know that there are data suppliers out
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  there. So you've got like, so we, we
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  have all of them, Prospio, Cognitum, Zoominfo, Clay, all of
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  those before weirdly, and I know this is sounds stupid, we didn't
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  know that you could buy data. So like we, we will, we were
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  existing off Google and gatekeepers.
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  So the challenge was this is really, really hard because I've
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  got a full day when we, when we both started.
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  Now our text setup is $300 a day.
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  You're speaking to decision makers equipped for that end.
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  When it started, you were you were just speaking to
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  receptionists, you were doing the gatekeepers, you were
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  finding your own leads on Google.
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  You might have got like 30-40 dollars a day working on behalf
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  of clients. You had to make something
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  happen. So I think the challenge was,
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  yeah, there were a lot of days where it felt really hard or
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  nothing happened or nothing was going to happen.
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  But I think the opportunity or the lesson that came from there
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  was like thinking outside the box.
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  And I know that you've got like loads of examples where where
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  you thought outside of the box and actually I've had one
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  conversation that's led to that. And if you just rang them on
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  your mobile, you might not have ended up in that conversation
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  anyway. I had a conversation with
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  someone yesterday and they said to me once they were trying to
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  win a new client so they physically sent them a kitchen
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  sink. Wow.
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  They sent them a kitchen sink. They sent.
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  They did it 3 * 1 time. They got a call saying you have
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  one hour to come and pick this sink out of my office and I've
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  never. Know anything to get rid of like
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  yeah. I.
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  Know, but then other things like they sent like like toy
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  soldiers, they were sending the cavalry, right?
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  Little things, I think. I mean, this is like 10 years
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  ago. Yeah, right.
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  There's some novelty though, there wouldn't there?
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  There's some. Novelty that actually as a
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  buyer, it does make you do two things.
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  One, say absolutely never, or one, let's have a conversation.
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  At least then you know as a seller what they're trying to
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  do. We know a guy who sent a a clock
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  to someone like a direct mail clock and they rang up saying, I
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  hope, you know, my whole building just had to shut down.
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  We've got a package ticking that came into the building.
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  Yeah, there's mad stuff. Just to, to round off Jack's
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  point as well, the, the reason we called the business we have a
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  meeting was because I didn't know there was data providers
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  and I was very aware I'd have to get through a gatekeeper.
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  So that bit of like, who is it calling?
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  Where are you calling from? What's the call about?
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  I thought, what can I say that it's like enough so they don't
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  ask any questions and they just put you through.
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  So the business has got, we have a meeting to get through.
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  Gatekeepers, we have a meeting. Oh right, they just put you
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  straight through. It's free advice you're giving
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  away now and cold calling has got a bit of a tough, you know,
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  it gets a tough wrap, right? Like why do you feel like the
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  market maybe needs to take a step back go?
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  We need those human interactions again, We need to be speaking to
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  people on the phone because we both manage sales teams Like you
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  do see this with different sellers, particularly over like
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  the last five years or so. Some sales people are becoming
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  afraid to pick the phone up. Like how much damage is that
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  doing to organisations? Massively the the thing to think
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  of regardless of like whether you're up for or not, I don't
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  think anyone is buzzing about let's do cold calls.
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  Like even our team are doing it all day every day.
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  But The thing is, what is the path of least resistance that's
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  going to get you in front of someone?
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  Is it sending someone a sink in the post, like perhaps that
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  perhaps that has the best return for some businesses?
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  What's the thing that not a lot of people are doing at the
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  minute? We can all say what people are
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  doing. Lots of automated LinkedIn
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  messages with M dashes and American spelling all over him.
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  Lots of selfies on LinkedIn. Lots of crap.
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  Mass emails to everyone. How many people are going?
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  There's ACEO of a business there.
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  I can see his mobile, the run, the data supplier.
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  He might bollock me, he might not, but I reckon I can solve a
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  problem for him. Yeah, Go on then.
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  I'll. I'll ring him rather than pester
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  him all the way. And.
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  And you'd be amazed how many times that is a refreshing thing
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  where people say, God, no one does this anymore.
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  Yeah, go on. You can have your 30 seconds.
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  So I'd say it's more there is an opportunity with it that it's
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  the path of least resistance. How long do you think someone's
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  got and like, call the CEO to convince them to give them that
• 10:49
  32nd window? Like 10 seconds, 5 seconds you.
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  You've just got to be so sharp with your opener.
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  It's it's the opener, but then it's also what you say next.
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  But if you like, I think this is so many people get a cold
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  calling, right. But if we think about like the
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  other stuff, even the direct mail, so like e-mail, LinkedIn
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  and direct mail, what is what is the purpose of that is?
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  To get a next meeting. Right is to get a meeting.
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  Why do you want a meeting? Yeah, it's had a product, so.
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  You can to talk to someone. So so you're doing you're going
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  around the houses. Can I send you this e-mail?
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  So like our competitors who are e-mail marketing companies,
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  they're sending all these emails out just to have a conversation,
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  skip the middle man, pick up the foot.
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  Like if, if the reframe is not about getting the meeting, but
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  about having the conversation with the CEO where you you're
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  getting to have a conversation. If you think about the revenue
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  and the goal in the end, well, then that's it.
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  That's like the thing. But like, so many people think
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  it's just about the meeting and it's like, well, that's where
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  you're probably going down and that's where you're scared if
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  you focus purely on like the opportunity.
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  The best way to know if you can get a meeting is to have the
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  first meeting, right? So if you pick up the phone and
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  you say, can we have a meeting, you know then?
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  And then you're not waiting days upon days for a reply.
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  And you know, your email's not gone into an inbox that's in the
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  spam. If you pick up the phone, they
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  were live right? Like how many businesses spend
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  10s of thousands of pounds trying to drive people towards
• 12:08
  websites with, you know, AdWords and God knows what else.
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  Like you can actually get a sales team picking the phones up
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  again and speaking to people. People are sick of the emails.
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  They're sick of like the spam that you talk about.
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  Like I just, I really wanted to get you guys on the show because
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  we think that, you know, you've created a modern version of like
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  what we should be doing for outbound.
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  So if we compare cold calling now and outbound in 2026 to
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  maybe where it was like 5-10 years ago, what's changed?
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  What's changed? I think people are doing less on
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  the call and I I say that in the opportunity of like, I, I think
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  you it's, it's hard, but I think there used to be a real quality
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  aspect of people actually like giving a shit and like treating
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  cold calling as an art form or a skill set.
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  And it was a case of that is the lifeline of the big business.
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  And I think we're 3334. We both grew up in Koreas where
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  a Yellow Pages was slammed on the desk and you call them, it
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  was treated like a skill and it was treated like this is what
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  we're going to put our time and effort into it.
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  I think the things that have changed now is people see it as
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  like a nuisance. And you've got Gen.
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  Z coming through. And this isn't kind of like
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  punched down, but like people are thinking, oh, it's an
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  inconvenience. Whereas you're actually saying,
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  well, like you're forgetting it's a skill set.
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  What what what a cold caller actually is, is somebody that
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  can listen really well. They can ask brilliant
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  questions. They're not afraid to get
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  rejected. That is a skill is a wheelhouse
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  of different skills. But I think we're framing it as
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  like annoying because the truth is, to Zach's point earlier,
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  they're just hiding behind screened because it's easier.
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  Deliveroo, I get my food ordered, I don't have to speak
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  to anyone. My next date is come from Tinder
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  or Hinder or something like that.
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  I don't need to speak to anyone in real life anymore.
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  So put yourself in uncomfortable situations and you'll grow.
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  I am I put LinkedIn post a few weeks ago around saying that I'm
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  looking for a tool and I actually put I'm in buying mode,
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  right? OK, scary.
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  I put I'm in buy mode. I had one cold call, but joking
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  but one cold call I had 56 messages, right?
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  I mean only one person called me.
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  It's disgusting, isn't it? Crazy, isn't it?
• 14:24
  Right. You said I'm in buying.
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  I'm in buying mode was my exact word.
• 14:27
  This is what I'm looking for. Did you buy off the cold?
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  Caller, no. But what I what I did find
• 14:33
  interesting is that two of his colleagues messaged me and he
• 14:36
  called me. So I said to him, I've replied
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  back to your two colleagues, but if this goes through your CRM,
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  it will be you, the person that takes the deal.
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  I still didn't choose them, but but but I appreciated someone
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  actually just picking up the phone.
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  Yeah. And calling it.
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  I see it all the time on LinkedIn.
• 14:51
  Hi, I dropped you Adm Hi. Add me on Telegram, right?
• 14:55
  Add me on Telegram. Right, you can get their
• 14:56
  numbers. That's some manosphere stuff.
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  Just call them, yeah. Just call them.
• 15:00
  And that that documentary discussions for another.
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  So look, when we when we think about sales teams and kind of
• 15:08
  cold corn is part of a wider sales strategy, right.
• 15:11
  It's it's not one channels, it's various channels.
• 15:13
  How do you speak to kind of your teams and and how do they
• 15:17
  approach kind of multi threading that their outreach?
• 15:21
  The scratch most certain is an interesting thing.
• 15:24
  The, the, the goal for us is is phone first where possible,
• 15:27
  right. So we use a lot of tools to be
• 15:29
  able to show us statistically people who should be in the
• 15:32
  market. So perhaps if it's like maybe to
• 15:35
  your market, if you sell like fintech person, it might be, can
• 15:38
  I identify new financial decision maker in a business,
• 15:42
  right? And that's going to be like
• 15:43
  super hot opportunity they probably brought into like drive
• 15:45
  change and innovation and stuff in the business, right?
• 15:48
  So they go top of the list. And so the point we made before,
• 15:51
  it's probably a case of can I get them on the phone then can I
• 15:54
  voicemail to try and get a call back if I can't get hold of
• 15:57
  them? The multi threading piece
• 15:59
  probably only comes in when it's required from the pool of people
• 16:03
  that aren't approachable in that way.
• 16:06
  And it's there's a thing in in sales that I always tell you
• 16:09
  like don't spill the beans if you are doing multi threading,
• 16:12
  like don't go here's what I do in an e-mail or like I saw this
• 16:17
  in a in a LinkedIn message. Like literally your LinkedIn
• 16:20
  message should be hijack. I've got a bit of a proposition
• 16:23
  for you. I don't know if you're against
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  here they're. Making longer though, aren't
• 16:25
  they? They're going crazy so long but.
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  We do. When people respond on LinkedIn,
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  we ring them. We don't reply on LinkedIn.
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  We ring them up and say, I saw that you just responded.
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  I thought it's probably easy for me to pick up the phone.
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  Yeah, bang. Straight away.
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  It's. Got a 99% conversation rate,
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  like better than any opener. You responded.
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  I thought I'd just be brave and pick up the phone.
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  Everyone's saying yeah. And obviously and then you're in
• 16:45
  because there's that feeling of familiarity.
• 16:48
  It's it's it's crazy. Yeah.
• 16:50
  Have you managed like if you, so you're picking up clients from
• 16:52
  multiple different sectors. So let's say you had a client
• 16:55
  from the payments industry on the fintech industry, our side.
• 16:59
  Does your team then go and spend some time with them learning
• 17:01
  their product like so that they can have that initial
• 17:04
  conversation? How does that process work?
• 17:06
  So the, the, the way to think about it is yes, they will learn
• 17:09
  about the product, but but more importantly, and I think this is
• 17:12
  what every salesperson should focus on rather than focusing on
• 17:16
  the solution in the product, they should focus on the
• 17:18
  problems. And that's what we do in the
• 17:20
  onboarding process of like I'm, if we get you guys in the room
• 17:24
  and our sales people that were calling out on yours and we did
• 17:27
  a quiz on the industry and the product, you guys are going to
• 17:30
  win hands down every day of the week.
• 17:32
  Even if they revise for two, two weeks, 4 weeks in onboarding,
• 17:36
  you're always going to win. So what we frame it to our
• 17:39
  clients as is you guys are the experts, we are the mini FBI
• 17:43
  negotiators. We're the therapists, OK?
• 17:46
  You're the doctors. We're the proactive
• 17:48
  receptionist. So what we're doing is we're
• 17:50
  picking up the phone, calling the people, calling all the
• 17:53
  patients. And rather than saying we've got
• 17:56
  this new penicillin on the market, we're saying, do you
• 17:58
  have itchy ears? Is your throat sore?
• 18:01
  Is your nose running? If you they have those symptoms,
• 18:03
  then we'll take them through our process, which is problem
• 18:06
  example effects and we go through that process tick, tick,
• 18:10
  tick and then we'll book it in the diary.
• 18:12
  That's where you guys come in and be be the expert and sell
• 18:15
  the solution. Makes sense.
• 18:17
  Makes sense. What separates in the kind of
• 18:18
  that good cold call from a bad cold call then?
• 18:21
  The, so the interesting thing is probably for the leaders to ask
• 18:25
  themselves what is the metric that you're targeting your team
• 18:28
  on? And for a lot of businesses, if
• 18:30
  they've got like an SDR function, it's probably meetings
• 18:32
  booked, meetings booked that invites low quality because it's
• 18:36
  just like, well, I will then play a game of kind of book a
• 18:39
  meeting and they might be able to ring me.
• 18:40
  And I'm like, do you get Commission for me just saying
• 18:42
  yes to this meeting, even if I don't show up And they're like,
• 18:45
  yeah, might. We'll put it in that.
• 18:47
  I'm not, I'm not buying it all, but you can bang it.
• 18:48
  And if it gets you paid. So if you were to flip it on,
• 18:52
  it's actually about attendance. And even better is attendance
• 18:55
  and a second meeting from an initial meeting.
• 18:58
  Then you will find people have to play a quality game like
• 19:01
  they're incentivized to then play a quality game.
• 19:04
  And then there's a separate thing then happening of going
• 19:06
  deeper. The the the variable that you
• 19:09
  actually see like in a transcript of you here, recall
• 19:12
  is am I playing a logical game of what systems do you have?
• 19:17
  What competitors do you use? Would you be open to a discount
• 19:20
  if we gave it you like that's a very logical conversation.
• 19:23
  An emotional conversation will probably more which problem you
• 19:26
  struggling with the minute. Give me an example of it in your
• 19:29
  life at the minute. What effects that have on you at
• 19:30
  the minute? Fucking sounds like a nightmare.
• 19:32
  How Long's that been going on before?
• 19:34
  Bloody hell. Really.
• 19:34
  Wow. Have you have you trying to fix
• 19:36
  it? You've not given up on on
• 19:37
  looking at something, have you? No, no.
• 19:39
  OK, well, I don't know if I can definitely.
• 19:40
  Have you got your diary there right now?
• 19:42
  Like oh shit, like suddenly it feels totally different.
• 19:44
  Emotion drives reason, right? Yeah, exactly.
• 19:46
  So it feels totally different. So it's probably, if you can
• 19:49
  combine those two things, what the metric is and the type of
• 19:51
  conversation, it will suddenly go, oh, this all feels totally
• 19:54
  different. Today's episode is sponsored by
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  That's ISX dot Financial and a big thank you to the team at ISX
• 20:36
  for supporting the show. I think a lot of like outbound
• 20:40
  cold call sales teams within organisations, they're massive
• 20:43
  churn departments as well. So you're constantly having to
• 20:45
  retrain people, you know, because you know, it can be a
• 20:47
  difficult job. People can struggle with it or
• 20:49
  it can be an incubator where someone starts and that and
• 20:51
  they're like, well, this person can really sell.
• 20:53
  You're going to bump you up the chain, you're going to become
• 20:55
  the next day of the sales and you eventually end up a manager.
• 20:57
  Some of the best managers started in a cold calling team,
• 21:00
  right? There's there's logic in this,
• 21:02
  right? But because of that, it's an
• 21:04
  opportunity again for you guys, right, because a lot of people
• 21:06
  like there's too much churn in this team like outsourcing.
• 21:08
  It makes a lot more sense. Control.
• 21:11
  So sometimes the best players, not necessarily the best
• 21:13
  coaches, right? So you could have someone that's
• 21:15
  fantastic outbound sales get them.
• 21:18
  Trying to educate other people how to do it becomes a bit of a
• 21:20
  problem, right? You see that, I mean, I always
• 21:23
  use football analogy, but it could be in any business, right?
• 21:25
  And I've seen people that have hit numbers as ICS and they're
• 21:29
  terrible managers. They can't manage their Diaries,
• 21:31
  They don't know how to improve the people that they're
• 21:33
  managing, right, Which is what you want as a salesperson.
• 21:36
  Are you learning, I mean, inspired by your manager?
• 21:40
  But personal branding, guys, if there's two people on LinkedIn,
• 21:43
  it's you guys that are pretty good when it comes to personal
• 21:45
  branding. Why is it such a key part of
• 21:48
  selling in 2026? I think the the approach that we
• 21:53
  take is what makes the net bigger.
• 21:58
  OK. So it's just like there's
• 22:00
  there's this net of different things that you can do and that
• 22:04
  is outbound, that is referrals, that is inbound, that is SEO,
• 22:09
  that is Geo and AEO and any other O like podcasting.
• 22:13
  Yeah, all these different things that you can do.
• 22:16
  Having a personal brand is like, are you, I always think about it
• 22:20
  like are you known in your industry for what problem you
• 22:23
  solve? So if I need to go and get a
• 22:26
  spare key because I'm going on holiday and I need the
• 22:28
  mother-in-law to come and water my plants, where am I going to
• 22:31
  go? Simpsons because they're the
• 22:33
  first person that I think of when it comes to getting a key
• 22:36
  car. And that's probably what I'm
• 22:37
  going to do. In the same way that like back
• 22:39
  in the day, it would be like 118118 if you needed to find a
• 22:43
  number or what is your like go to choice of AI.
• 22:47
  What we're trying to do is can we build a personal brand not
• 22:50
  for vanity likes or metrics and all that stuff.
• 22:54
  It's more a case of on thinking about cold calling, you are the
• 22:58
  guys and we get so many messages of like, I don't even know what
• 23:01
  you do exactly, but I know it's doing cold calling and booking
• 23:03
  meetings and we need that. That's a good like satirical
• 23:06
  edge to it as well. Your team.
• 23:08
  Do you encourage your team to kind of put themselves out there
• 23:10
  as well? Because obviously you guys have
• 23:12
  grown to. I don't know how many followers
• 23:13
  you have between you. Who's who's got I'm?
• 23:15
  Sure, you both know. Jack's.
• 23:16
  Jack's got a lot, I don't know what.
• 23:18
  Mine might be more close to 30,000.
• 23:20
  Yours is 50. Close to 50 we're pushing.
• 23:23
  Very good, impressive stuff guys.
• 23:25
  But you know your teams, are you saying to them, look, look what
• 23:27
  we've done by putting ourselves out there.
• 23:30
  This can help you in your your day-to-day.
• 23:34
  Yeah, yes, we have what what is, I would say what is interesting
• 23:38
  right when people leave, like when people naturally do leave
• 23:41
  and we and often we like encourage when they hit a moment
• 23:43
  of like you need to leave. There's a guy I'm thinking he's
• 23:46
  gone on to do great things. He was quite senior in the
• 23:48
  business. We were constantly pushing him
• 23:51
  to post on LinkedIn. When he moved into his next
• 23:54
  role, he started and message, Jack said, I wish I'd done this
• 23:57
  all along. We were constantly pushing him
• 23:59
  to do it. I I wonder sometimes if people
• 24:02
  think you have to be in our team like as extreme as, as maybe
• 24:06
  Jack is. Remember, you will die, right?
• 24:09
  Yeah, exactly. So we do, we encourage them,
• 24:12
  Yes, it's something that I would like to do more of.
• 24:15
  It probably isn't doing enough. We have the same thing because
• 24:17
  we we've both grown big profiles in, in our industry and maybe it
• 24:23
  can intimidate your team sometimes a little bit as well.
• 24:26
  And you know, you don't have to get to the same level.
• 24:28
  But I just say like, put yourself out there and give them
• 24:32
  a guide on what does work well and might help them to grow
• 24:34
  their network and get engagement with their content.
• 24:37
  Because that engagement leads to more eyes on you and the
• 24:40
  ultimate end message that you wanted to get from, even if it's
• 24:42
  something satirical, right? That leads to to organic inbound
• 24:46
  opportunity. And it probably took us time
• 24:47
  when we first started doing content.
• 24:49
  Nervous, right, Because you think people are going to judge?
• 24:52
  Well, there were definitely like those naysayers of like, oh, you
• 24:55
  guys on Link. Yeah.
• 24:56
  Like, and then three years later, it's like, OK, well, the
• 24:59
  amount of the inbound needs that we now get from LinkedIn, even
• 25:02
  when people save stuff that, you know, people come to us and
• 25:05
  they're like, you did this post six months ago, I remembered it
• 25:08
  or I wanted to talk about it, but we weren't ready to talk
• 25:10
  about it. Like that's latent demand,
• 25:13
  right? You're capturing through
• 25:14
  content. Like, that's a really good story
• 25:16
  to be able to tell. One thing I will say to people
• 25:18
  is people don't want to wait. They don't wake up them and
• 25:20
  wanted to buy for your business. It has to be a reason, right?
• 25:22
  You mentioned it for that because there's a compelling
• 25:24
  event or something that's realised they've moved into buy
• 25:26
  mode. You need to be the brand they
• 25:28
  think of when they move into buy mode or I need some help, right?
• 25:32
  And it isn't. Maybe the conversation we had
• 25:34
  with marketing teams in the past is when you start to attribute
• 25:37
  leads because they've seen something on LinkedIn or
• 25:41
  podcast. You think I told you so?
• 25:43
  I told you I don't know. One person post on Dean has
• 25:45
  gone. I wish I'd never done it.
• 25:48
  Have. You guys won business off it as
• 25:50
  well because you do like live cold calls sometimes as well.
• 25:52
  And like people saying that like I probably would have answered
• 25:54
  that. Cool.
• 25:55
  Yeah, like the way you did that. Like my team needs to be doing
• 25:58
  that or we need to be working with someone that that does it
• 26:00
  that way. I, I would say between us, we
• 26:03
  probably get between 4:00 and 8:00 inbounds a week.
• 26:06
  Like, like, yeah, the, the, the only read like it's not the only
• 26:10
  reason because it's opportunities, but like it is
• 26:13
  very much driving. And we had, we had a
• 26:15
  conversation today with some personal branding expert and
• 26:18
  Zach was saying, I'm going to post twice today to they were
• 26:21
  like, do not post more than once.
• 26:23
  We post twice. I post three times a day because
• 26:25
  the, my, my thought process is it's free billboard space.
• 26:29
  Do you know what I mean? Every time I'm doing that, I'm
• 26:31
  saying this is what we do. And there's the stuff that will
• 26:34
  do really, really well, attention.
• 26:36
  And then there's the shouting, the team out, the parades.
• 26:38
  Here's the whiteboard, here's the results, here's the client.
• 26:40
  We've been working with XY and Z, but constantly it's there.
• 26:45
  And they said just only post. That only algorithm.
• 26:47
  Experts though, yeah, there were the, the, the IT was, it was a
• 26:50
  really valid point. It was like, can you think of if
• 26:53
  you're posting twice a day, can you think of 10 good ideas?
• 26:57
  I was like, oh don't worry, Yeah, none of them aren't good,
• 26:59
  but I'm posting. We've got something wrong with
• 27:01
  us, don't we? We can do it, yeah.
• 27:04
  Exactly. But it's building in public,
• 27:05
  right? So people have seen you, they're
• 27:06
  seeing the challenge that you. Have it brings in the leads if
• 27:08
  it wasn't bringing in the leads like we talk, if you speak about
• 27:12
  the team, like do we drive them? Yes, the why isn't big enough,
• 27:16
  but now the senior guy that is in this new role, he has to like
• 27:20
  bring in his own lead. So he's had to do that because
• 27:22
  he's wise, strong enough For us, we made a promise to each other,
• 27:25
  like we're going to post on LinkedIn every single day
• 27:28
  because we know that that will help grow the business.
• 27:31
  The, the, the dividends are tenfold and it's compounded and
• 27:35
  we're going to continue because actually another 2-3, five years
• 27:38
  down the line, you'll just reap the rewards.
• 27:41
  Weekend posting. I don't.
• 27:43
  Know sometimes. Flirt with the idea.
• 27:45
  The way people consume content, right?
• 27:47
  And people go into LinkedIn to be educated or entertained,
• 27:49
  right? Or they want to advertise
• 27:53
  themselves. If you're doing one M3 things
• 27:56
  with your posts, people remember it.
• 27:59
  I cannot tell you what I posted last week, couldn't remember,
• 28:01
  but I did. And that's, that's what people
• 28:03
  want to see, right? Yeah, I didn't know what maybe
• 28:07
  Stephen Bartlett, which podcast he, he released last week, but
• 28:09
  I'm sure he did. Yeah.
• 28:11
  So I, I think it's consistent and it's always showing up.
• 28:14
  And you see the amount of people that start post on LinkedIn, you
• 28:16
  see the AI driven content and three weeks later it starts
• 28:19
  because you do have to, you have to put F into it.
• 28:22
  If you were going to start doing outbound sales, LinkedIn is
• 28:25
  another sales channel. I just love the math of it, you
• 28:27
  know, 4 to 8 leads inbound per week.
• 28:30
  So then you're getting to like nearly 30 leads a month and then
• 28:33
  hundreds of leads a year that are purely organic from people
• 28:37
  seeing you online and thinking we should be speaking to these
• 28:39
  guys. Yeah, I mean the value on that,
• 28:42
  that you can't underestimate the value of.
• 28:44
  That and it's all free. Like yeah, our marketing spend
• 28:46
  is our podcast which is sponsored and paid for.
• 28:49
  Then we've got our outbound team.
• 28:50
  So how much we spend on marketing, nothing cost us
• 28:53
  nothing to to get a customer. People say to us with the
• 28:56
  podcast like how do you do outside your day job?
• 28:57
  Yeah, with evenings and weekends and and extra time.
• 28:59
  But sacrifice what we do on the podcast gets inbound leads into
• 29:03
  our, our day jobs, which helps the organisations that that we
• 29:06
  work for. And then we can validate, you
• 29:08
  know, my team's closed leads from my in man, your team's
• 29:10
  closed leads from your in man. Like you can validate that with,
• 29:13
  with revenue. And I think people don't
• 29:15
  appreciate that sometimes. Or you write a book about it.
• 29:18
  Or you write a book. Wow.
• 29:19
  That was a great segment. Tell us more.
• 29:22
  Where did the idea come from? Sales is therapy.
• 29:25
  Tell us more. The the premise of the
• 29:28
  qualification both on cold calls and discovery calls, we thought
• 29:32
  is best suited for a therapy session, right?
• 29:35
  So whatever if if we put like even the Alcoholics Anonymous
• 29:39
  into therapy, the first step in most of those processes, you,
• 29:43
  you as in the person involved, the prospect in this case have
• 29:47
  to acknowledge that they have a problem.
• 29:49
  I'm not there to say here's my shiny thing, please buy it,
• 29:52
  which is what a lot of sales people do.
• 29:54
  So what if you flip this and you used only therapy techniques in
• 29:58
  selling? What would the potential
• 29:59
  outcomes be? And the answers are shorter
• 30:03
  demos, more relevant conversations, shorter deal
• 30:07
  cycles because it's all very emotion.
• 30:10
  I've understood you. Here's a prescription at the end
• 30:13
  LED rather than here's the prescription at the front.
• 30:15
  I'm going to force it on you and give you discount until you
• 30:18
  swallow it, which is what a lot of sales conversations are.
• 30:22
  And we thought, is there anything else like this on the
• 30:24
  market? There's maybe a few things, but
• 30:26
  we put it into a book with the idea of being, I wish I had
• 30:30
  something like this when I started my sales career.
• 30:32
  That was the bit that we wanted to put out there and the amount
• 30:34
  of message. The best thing about it since I
• 30:36
  put it out has been the amount of messages that have been like,
• 30:39
  oh, I've picked up this. I've tried something from a
• 30:41
  chapter. It's amazing.
• 30:42
  I wish I had this from from day one and we still get messages
• 30:45
  like that now. So it was just to as cheesy as
• 30:48
  it sounds, probably because I'll give back to probably young
• 30:51
  salespeople who were getting no or naff training.
• 30:54
  And what to write in the book, teach you guys about your own
• 30:57
  philosophy on sales when you're sitting down and actually like
• 31:00
  putting that book together that you're probably thinking about
• 31:03
  from. I remember that.
• 31:04
  Cool. I remember that amazing sale,
• 31:05
  like it did like you, you remembering your best hits and
• 31:08
  your worst hits. Yeah.
• 31:08
  Yeah. I think the, the thing we're
• 31:10
  learning as well, Grant, is like you consume, you read or you
• 31:15
  listen to something you learn and then like when you write it
• 31:18
  down and you teach it someone else, you learn it even more.
• 31:22
  So like just by doing that, it ingrains it in you even more.
• 31:25
  So like if I'm writing a chapter on X this week, well, that means
• 31:30
  that when I'm going into work that week, I'm talking about
• 31:33
  that. It's current, it's relevant,
• 31:35
  it's helping me be a better leader, it's helping the sales
• 31:38
  team and stuff like that. So it gives you that opportunity
• 31:41
  to reflect on like all the different skills.
• 31:43
  And I think there's there's something that's beautiful
• 31:45
  writing a book because it's like there are no rules.
• 31:47
  What like our book is is about that thick.
• 31:50
  It's like an old Yellow Pages it.
• 31:51
  Generally tell you to put it all together.
• 31:53
  Years about. 3-4 years, yeah, because we wrote a copy and
• 31:58
  means that we're like, this isn't good enough.
• 32:00
  So we deleted it and then we went back to the drawing board
• 32:03
  and we, we started again. And then it was a, and then
• 32:06
  chopping and changing it, moving it around.
• 32:08
  And then it was like, oh, here it is.
• 32:09
  And the the original was like a lot thinner.
• 32:12
  It was like, it needs more practical elements.
• 32:14
  It needs to be a workbook that you can say I'm focusing on this
• 32:18
  chapter this week and that's the skill I'm going to nail.
• 32:22
  Do you still go and read the book now and kind of do take
• 32:25
  anything from it and go actually look like I read with a
• 32:28
  different lens on now you're like you're managing more people
• 32:30
  as a as a kind of as founders as opposed to as an IC.
• 32:34
  It's a great thing to because you've got it as an asset and AI
• 32:39
  understands that asset. I can take a transcript from a
• 32:43
  call with maybe a client that we're working with or maybe from
• 32:46
  our team internally that are going through training and say,
• 32:49
  based on this is the methodology, what is missing now
• 32:52
  on this call? And it allows us then to go, oh,
• 32:55
  that's interesting. They need more training on this
• 32:57
  element of the book so that I have to re internalize it for
• 33:01
  teaching it to that person so they can relate to it.
• 33:03
  Because obviously in our teaching it's like, oh, I must
• 33:05
  have missed the way I've taught them that then.
• 33:07
  So it kind of forces you to keep getting this deeper and deeper
• 33:10
  understanding. We want to do the audio version
• 33:13
  next. We'll have to.
• 33:14
  Reread it. Nice, nice fun to do, yeah.
• 33:17
  Yeah. It's, it's really interesting
• 33:19
  because I'm not a massive reader.
• 33:20
  I do like the old audio, but but there's certain books that I
• 33:23
  have on my shelf. You know, we had Tim Hughes on
• 33:25
  with his social selling book, which one of the early books I
• 33:27
  read by football sort of went on this LinkedIn journey.
• 33:29
  And then there's a book by a lady that works at Stripe,
• 33:33
  Claire, I can't remember her name, but she wrote a book
• 33:35
  called Scaling People. Yeah, Scaling People.
• 33:37
  And it's such a great Bible for like managers or people that are
• 33:41
  like going on a management journey.
• 33:42
  And there's just like, not the whole book, but there's bits
• 33:44
  that I'll take and go back to and that and, you know, read
• 33:47
  back a chapter. So I love the idea of like
• 33:49
  salespeople taking like certain learnings from your book and
• 33:51
  just go, do you know, I'm going to read that chapter again
• 33:53
  because I've got a bit rusty on that or whatever it might be.
• 33:56
  It's a really nice idea. And the title is very, very
• 33:59
  interesting. And I wanted to ask how that
• 34:01
  title makes you guys reflect on what modern selling has become
• 34:06
  because it's quite a, you know, punchy title in terms of sales
• 34:10
  is a difficult job, right? It's a very, very difficult job
• 34:14
  and we do just need an arm around us in sales sometimes to
• 34:16
  be like tomorrow will be better, you know?
• 34:18
  Yeah, So Zach, Zach text me like Zach and his brain waves.
• 34:21
  He was like, I've got an idea for a talk.
• 34:24
  Sales is therapy. And then I think we, we played
• 34:26
  with selling his therapy and other things and, and different
• 34:30
  ideas. The what we open the book and we
• 34:33
  talk about the Samaritans. So the, the suicide hotline and
• 34:36
  the Samaritans have a role that if somebody calls up, you're not
• 34:39
  allowed to talk about yourself. Because if I rang you on
• 34:42
  Christmas Eve and you're a Samaritan, I said, I'm feeling
• 34:45
  suicidal and you went no way, man, I was suicidal last
• 34:48
  Christmas. That just made me want to jump.
• 34:50
  So, so it's all these different things.
• 34:52
  And if we're thinking what is selling, selling for me is many,
• 34:58
  many different things, but it falls in two cast crews.
• 35:00
  One is communication to like listening and asking brilliant
• 35:04
  questions and all these different therapy techniques to
• 35:06
  get people to open up and feel heard.
• 35:09
  And then the other half is like their mindset and understanding
• 35:13
  themselves and rejection and validation, which is all the
• 35:16
  shit you'd sit down and talk to a therapist about to actually,
• 35:21
  everything in sales is therapy because whether it's like
• 35:24
  conquering a Monday and making sure that you feel confident
• 35:27
  enough to like get over whatever's happened on the
• 35:30
  weekend, or if it's just listening to somebody who's had
• 35:34
  a really awful experience with their, their their old payment
• 35:37
  provider. Everything in sales is therapy.
• 35:40
  And we found that like that kind of through line has been
• 35:44
  refreshing when it's not a case of 10 exit, sell, sell, sell,
• 35:48
  close, close, close. It's kind of relationship based,
• 35:51
  right? And, and sales is whether people
• 35:52
  want to admit it or not. It doesn't mean I go home crying
• 35:55
  because I can buy or sell today. But every time someone agrees to
• 35:59
  purchase from you, there's a relationship because there's
• 36:02
  give and take on both sides. And sometimes I think
• 36:04
  salespeople always think it's going to be a, a kind of a take
• 36:07
  from a seller's perspective. You need to understand, like you
• 36:10
  guys have been talking about the challenges and why, what problem
• 36:13
  you're solving. People will talk about two ears
• 36:15
  and one mouth, right? I think it's absolutely key.
• 36:18
  Let's talk about the podcast guys.
• 36:20
  You mentioned before this couple of guests you've been having on,
• 36:23
  which is incredible. What was the reason behind
• 36:26
  creating another content engine? So the the initial thing was you
• 36:31
  talked about before managers, right.
• 36:33
  People do management with no experience.
• 36:36
  People do all these things with no experience.
• 36:38
  We would exactly the same. Me and Jack have only ever done
• 36:40
  selling. We'd never done any management,
• 36:43
  never run a business before. And it felt like, how can I get
• 36:46
  consultancy and not pay for it? Well, start a podcast.
• 36:50
  I'll just we started just can I just interview people who are
• 36:53
  slightly ahead of us? One of the first people we had
• 36:55
  on is now our biggest competitor.
• 36:58
  And I said, and we actually said at the start before we went
• 37:00
  live, we'll probably go your competitor one day.
• 37:02
  And he was very polite and said, yeah, maybe like you could tell
• 37:06
  he was like, who are these two? And we just spent the whole
• 37:08
  episode asking him how he grew challenges he had and before,
• 37:11
  you know, like, oh, right, he's implementing all the stuff that
• 37:13
  he learned from us. So anything that we were
• 37:15
  struggling with, we just like have guests on that were like
• 37:18
  that. And I think through that natural
• 37:21
  curiosity, it grew there and then became, OK, like you said,
• 37:24
  now it's like a content engine and it's, it gives back to us.
• 37:28
  But the, the, the, the non sexy thing, I think that's the
• 37:33
  through line between all the things that we talked about
• 37:35
  today is consistency is something that is just missing
• 37:39
  so much. It took us probably three years
• 37:43
  to make any money from the podcast.
• 37:45
  Like, and we were doing an episode every week for three
• 37:48
  years, but we didn't make any money for three years.
• 37:50
  Like people do 10 episodes and then go, oh, nothing's
• 37:53
  happening. See you later like.
• 37:55
  It's. Crazy.
• 37:56
  So that that consistency piece has been huge to just, I'm going
• 38:01
  to commit to it and just I'm, I'm not attached to the outcome.
• 38:04
  Let's just see what happens, yeah?
• 38:06
  I like how you guys do a mixture of like guest stuff and also you
• 38:08
  guys kind of just having a chin wagon chew in the fat like.
• 38:12
  Taking the piss out of each other.
• 38:13
  Oh yeah, it mixes it up nicely though, you know, it works
• 38:16
  pretty well in that sense. And in terms of your, your
• 38:19
  inbound, obviously the Linkedin's a good inbound and
• 38:21
  you are you getting inbound from the podcast now as well.
• 38:24
  So just you're just doubling down, right, the more content or
• 38:27
  opportunity? We've we've we've had some like
• 38:29
  mad messages. Zach had a message once of like
• 38:32
  a woman saying, I find it really interesting that buyer's
• 38:35
  journey. And I had somebody last week on
• 38:38
  a call that said, just thought it'd be really interesting for
• 38:41
  you to know. It was this post.
• 38:42
  I was like, he did about 1000 impressions, 12 likes.
• 38:46
  He was like, that was the post that I've been following for
• 38:48
  three years. That was the post that made me
• 38:49
  get in touch. And I was like, oh, wow, OK,
• 38:51
  that's interesting. And then somebody messaged Zach
• 38:53
  once and was like, just so you know, I saw a stupid post on
• 38:57
  LinkedIn. So it was definitely one of the
• 39:00
  next. And then I clicked your profile,
• 39:02
  went away, saw another post. And then I was like, oh, you've
• 39:05
  got a podcast. So I watched a clip.
• 39:06
  Then I went and watched the full episode.
• 39:08
  Then I came back to the post. Then I was like, oh, I need
• 39:10
  that. And now I've done it.
• 39:12
  So it's like it's part of it's part of the the journey.
• 39:16
  And do you know what I mean? People say you need to spend X
• 39:19
  amount of time with people to know like and trust them.
• 39:22
  Well, actually a few hours, yeah.
• 39:24
  You might come in to watch one of the bigger guests or learn
• 39:27
  something specific. But we're sat there and then all
• 39:30
  of a sudden you get to know us. There's a level of like that
• 39:32
  intimacy where you go. I trust these guys.
• 39:35
  We started chatting because I watched Shawn and you guys were
• 39:37
  going on about Simon Squibb and he connected with me on LinkedIn
• 39:40
  before he blown up when he had like 20-30 thousand trying to
• 39:43
  sell me his health bank thing and it's always in my network.
• 39:46
  We're doing our podcast. I thought I'd like to get him on
• 39:48
  the podcast. Sent him a message, got this
• 39:51
  like automated type reply back. That was like, Oh, you got my
• 39:54
  name wrong. I was like, no, I didn't.
• 39:55
  And he's like, if you're going to message someone, I was like
• 39:57
  you, you messaged me like last year.
• 39:59
  You started the conversation and it went back like if you was
• 40:02
  like saying I was still keen to do a podcast removed me as a
• 40:04
  connection. I'm like, OK, wow, not the
• 40:08
  friendliest guy that he maybe portrays as being.
• 40:10
  But anyway, so that was my but we got chatted about that
• 40:12
  because I watched your thing and I was like, Oh, that's quite a
• 40:14
  funny thing. It's what I've just been through
• 40:15
  there, but. But as we talk about the kind of
• 40:17
  the future of sales, right, how do we see it evolving over the
• 40:21
  next few years with AI? The we can't see around the
• 40:28
  corner, right? So I don't want to give and I'm
• 40:30
  I'm very conscious with this conversation of like fear
• 40:32
  mongering. I saw a post yesterday that
• 40:34
  actually made me like search up. Is this new tech?
• 40:37
  Alex Tomosi did a video that basically insinuated that you
• 40:41
  could now have AI cold callers that can book you meetings,
• 40:44
  right? And I was like, really?
• 40:47
  Am I like, when did this happen? And so I put that ironically
• 40:51
  into AI and said, is this true? It was like, no, it's not true
• 40:55
  at all. But I'm very conscious that the
• 40:56
  narrative is like, how can I get people scared of AI?
• 40:59
  And then when you click on my profile, wouldn't you know it?
• 41:02
  I sell AI like it's a weird self fulfilling prophecy thing.
• 41:07
  I would, I would say that the opportunity for sellers is all
• 41:11
  the back end administrative bit can be done for you where it
• 41:15
  literally points you in the direction of Jack Frumston is in
• 41:18
  the market for what you do. Statistically, based on like
• 41:21
  what we're seeing in the data, the intent data being like bang
• 41:24
  on, maybe a few of the things that you're looking for
• 41:27
  enrichment that's available to you.
• 41:28
  Jack is is bang on. And it goes back to the point I
• 41:31
  made before. If, if it's bang on for Jack,
• 41:34
  what are the people going to do? Like the people who interacted
• 41:37
  with you when you said I'm buying, they are going to
• 41:40
  bombard him with LinkedIn messages, bombard him with
• 41:42
  emails that all feel this is automated.
• 41:45
  I know this is AI, but the guy who picks up the phone and says
• 41:49
  I think I can solve that problem for you.
• 41:51
  How long has it been hurting for?
• 41:52
  What have you been struggling with and has a real human to
• 41:55
  human conversation with you? The unique opportunity will be
• 41:58
  there and we're already seeing it already with people who are
• 42:02
  coming to us saying the cold coin is great.
• 42:05
  I want to get the qualification like the bit that you do on the
• 42:08
  back and where you really find out what's going on.
• 42:10
  Can't seem to solve that anymore because everyone wants to just
• 42:13
  AI automate and just have the view from that, not the client.
• 42:17
  Yeah. It's an interesting one because
• 42:18
  we spend so much of our time coming.
• 42:19
  It's in 98% of the market to buy from us.
• 42:22
  Yeah. But instead of the 2% of people
• 42:24
  that that are ready to buy, you want them to be to to be buying
• 42:27
  from you, right? We were talking about cool
• 42:29
  screening before we we started filming as well.
• 42:31
  And obviously that's those sort of things you guys have to think
• 42:34
  about because your clients would be like, well, what do you do
• 42:35
  when someone's screening are cool?
• 42:37
  It's like you got some clever techniques for getting around
• 42:40
  some of the the new blockers and AI will probably double down on
• 42:43
  stuff like that maybe, right? But I think like it's people,
• 42:46
  people say to do you know what, I probably get it like once a
• 42:49
  week at the minute, like, well, what are you going to?
• 42:50
  What are you guys going to? How would you get past them?
• 42:53
  I go, we go back to the beginning of the conversation.
• 42:56
  What do we do? Before we had mobile data, but
• 42:58
  we'd call past and get past receptionists.
• 43:00
  How long have we had mobile data available to us?
• 43:02
  Ten years. So what was happening before
• 43:05
  then? It was always past the
• 43:07
  receptionist or if you're calling the business, you speak
• 43:08
  to Jeff who picks up the phone or someone else.
• 43:11
  There is always going to be things in place to get past to
• 43:15
  get you to the, the human beings.
• 43:17
  And whether that's a receptionist, A switchboard or
• 43:20
  a, a, a, a, an automated like call Screener, those things are
• 43:25
  going to exist. What's going to happen is people
• 43:28
  are going to go, oh, it's so hard to get past.
• 43:30
  It's not worth it. Another reason not to do it, it
• 43:34
  becomes less saturated, which means for people like us that
• 43:36
  want to do it, it's going to be even even easier.
• 43:40
  So when it comes to call screeners, less is more.
• 43:43
  So always like we would be, it would be very easy.
• 43:46
  Jack, we have a meeting. You see that?
• 43:48
  You go, Jack, we have a meeting. We have a meeting.
• 43:51
  What the What the hell? Yeah, it's the name working for
• 43:54
  you. It's Jack, OK, Or I would maybe
• 43:58
  if I could get through through to you, I'd have a a
• 44:01
  conversation. You say I'm not the right guy.
• 44:03
  I'd call the call Stringer. And I'd say Justin just had a
• 44:05
  conversation with Grant, thought it might be worth talking.
• 44:07
  You're going to go Grant or you spoke to Grant.
• 44:10
  That's probably worth. And then I'll pass it over to
• 44:12
  you because you've got some brilliant ones when it comes to
• 44:16
  thinking outside the box. Yeah, the, the, the number one
• 44:19
  that's going to get you through is saying transcription failed.
• 44:22
  How did you find that out? Through just saying
• 44:24
  transcription fail, I'm just thinking like, well, if I speak,
• 44:27
  it comes up as text on the other side, transcription failed on
• 44:30
  the other end. Or if you think of like
• 44:33
  gatekeeper techniques, like one of the things that used to work
• 44:37
  really well is going and it said Zack for Jack, please, right?
• 44:42
  And they'll put me through. But if you just flip on his head
• 44:44
  like Jack, it's Zack like who's weirdly right.
• 44:49
  Gatekeepers receptionist call screen has this weird
• 44:52
  effectively where they like over share.
• 44:54
  So they say like whatever it says, you know, like who who's
• 44:57
  it, who is it and what's the call regarding all who is it and
• 45:00
  where you're from? You're like, I'm, I'm, I'm Zach.
• 45:02
  I'm, I'm 33 years old. And I watch it and I see people
• 45:06
  stuttering and I kind of kind of quite funny.
• 45:08
  Like them thinking about what? Everything about them, the guys
• 45:12
  like obviously I'm not introducing like an absolute
• 45:14
  lunatic. It's.
• 45:15
  Not when my mum, you sleep Good smiles.
• 45:17
  Hi Justin. It's 11/14.
• 45:20
  I don't need to know what time it is.
• 45:22
  Guys. Our final part of the show?
• 45:24
  Shelf of Shame. Give us one thing that really
• 45:27
  frustrates you and that you'd like just to banish forever in
• 45:31
  the world of sales. I was thinking about this and
• 45:35
  what happens a lot now is like LinkedIn message and I see it.
• 45:39
  My inner chimp just goes that's fucking pointless I don't want
• 45:43
  to see that. I'm not going to reply to that.
• 45:45
  Then you might get a thoughts or a Jack or question mark and I
• 45:48
  get what you're doing. You get my attention.
• 45:50
  That's fine. That doesn't need to go on the
• 45:52
  shelf. What I've been getting a lot
• 45:54
  more recently, which has been driving me crazy.
• 45:56
  People have started sending me a sad face emoji and I think it's
• 46:00
  the audacity to send like I'm now sad.
• 46:03
  You have made me sad like you. You have.
• 46:05
  You have done something that has ruined my day and it's like I
• 46:08
  don't need, I don't need smileys in my emojis in my inbox just
• 46:13
  because I've been too busy or it's not worth the conversation.
• 46:17
  So I'm putting on the shelf of shame emojis.
• 46:21
  I'd say people who buy their audience and then try and sell
• 46:26
  people a framework on how to grow on LinkedIn.
• 46:30
  It's just it actually makes me feel sad.
• 46:32
  LinkedIn audiences is. Could people buy it?
• 46:35
  People buy it, but you've bought the audience.
• 46:36
  It's not a real audience. And then you'll.
• 46:38
  Sell them for for more For more information.
• 46:40
  Crazy though, like how can you sleep at night if you're doing
• 46:43
  that? They've written books about it,
• 46:44
  some of those that's. What I'm saying, it's
• 46:45
  unbelievable and I'm like, God, like people, you're taking
• 46:48
  people's money away from the kids and stuff.
• 46:50
  It's wild. So I'd love to see some sort of
• 46:54
  thing that just exposes like, you know, like on the fact
• 46:58
  checking on social media. And it's like, by the way, this
• 46:59
  isn't true. Yeah.
• 47:00
  Just to be like. By the way this is completely
• 47:03
  artificial and bought would be amazing.
• 47:05
  I think I do hate seeing when it says comment Claude to show you
• 47:08
  how to if you want to win the lottery tomorrow, comment Claude
• 47:11
  below. And people actually comment,
• 47:12
  Claude, Yeah. Or to get sent this white paper.
• 47:15
  And there's another white paper. Yeah.
• 47:17
  I did one saying Claude taught me how to not die.
• 47:20
  Comment Claude and people would comment in Claude thinking like.
• 47:23
  Like, come on. I'm happy about both of them,
• 47:26
  yeah. Big fan, big fan guys, where can
• 47:29
  people find you? Silly question, but where can
• 47:31
  people find him? More about about you guys and
• 47:33
  about we have a meeting. Wehaveameeting.com LinkedIn for
• 47:37
  Jack Framson, Zach Thompson We have a meeting, podcast, all
• 47:40
  channels and if you want to read, if you like reading, you
• 47:43
  want to learn about sales. Sales is therapy Amazon.
• 47:46
  Awesome. Thank you so much for your time,
• 47:48
  guys. Thank.
• 47:48
  You thank you guys.