Latest / UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing / How to Build a Brand People Remember with Barbara Kaplan
Transcript
- UFYLM Barbara Kaplan Ep. 32: Welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing, the show where we get brutally honest about marketing, business, and the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and professional BS detector for attorneys and business owners who are tired of doing what everyone else does. Around here, we skip the fluff. We have real conversations, real insights, and maybe a few F-bombs along the way. So, Let's get into it. Personal branding. Most attorneys don't think about this, or they do, but they wing it, which is what they should not do. And today I'm joined by my dear friend Barbara Kaplan, who is the brand whisperer. Barbara has spent more than 20 years helping attorneys attract the right clients. Strengthen relationships and build brands that support their goals. So today we're talking about personal branding. What the hell is it? Why it matters? And how to build a reputation that helps the right people remember, trust, and refer you. So Barbara, welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. Thank you, Gary. It's a pleasure to be here. And let me repeat back, Gary is my dear friend. Yes, you are mine too. So let's start with let's just start with the basics. What is a personal brand and what do people often misunderstand about it? So your personal brand is basically a very concise statement or phrase that sets you apart, that distinguishes you in the marketplace, that is uniquely yours, that you own. And that is memorable. So if there were twenty-five lawyers lined up and they were all family law experts or all trusted estate experts, and somebody were to turn to one of them and say, But why you? There are twenty-five lawyers here who claim to do exactly what you claim to do. Why you? Your brand would be the answer to that question. What uniquely distinguishes you is it How you practice? Is it how you serve it up? Is it who you target, whom you target? Is it something unique and distinguishing about the way you handle your cases or you solve clients' problems? Or what is it about you that when you're not in the room, people are always going to remember? Yeah. And I love the the fact that two things. One, you own it. It's your personal brand, right? It's not somebody else's personal brand. But I love how you said you own it. And are people talking well about you behind your back? Or are they talking shit behind your back, Which is really based on their personal brand. And and and it's such an important element because it is really your relationship, right? And your reputation. Because everyone everybody has some kind of reputation, but How do you figure out what somebody's personal brand is today versus what they want it to be? Well, you have to well your personal brand should represent you both pro both personally and professionally. So there should not be a gap between the two. But you do have to ask for client feedback or colleague feedback or connector feedback to find out how you are perceived. Because your personal brand is something that you craft about you. And if you're not showing up the way you want to be perceived or known or seen, then there's a discrepancy between the two. And if you are not happy with how you are told you are perceived, then you have to fill that gap. Otherwise, you're in the sweet spot and you're in good shape. But to your previous point, there are a couple of tests that you can apply yourself. For example. If you tell someone what your personal brand is, can they repeat it back to you after hearing it once? Is it something that you uniquely own, or do 25 other people also own it? Is it uniquely yours? Does it fit? Like if you're trying on a new suit or a new dress or whatever, does it fit well? Do you feel like it's you? And do other people see you in it? And if all of those things are true. Then you found the sweet spot because that's how you're gonna show up consistently every single time, no matter what setting or situation you are seen or heard or known in. Does that make sense? That is such great wisdom, Barbara. And I love your analogy of the the clothing. Does it fit, right? Do you feel comfortable in it? Because I think when we when we feel comfortable with it, we're gonna have more confidence in it. And if we have more confidence in it, we're gonna utilize it and we're gonna lean into it as opposed to, well, this is somebody else, you know, and my coach just told me I needed to do this, but I feel icky about it, you know. So I think that is such a it's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant, you know. You also sit at the very beginning. That their personal and professional identities need to coincide, right? Tell me a little bit more about that because I hear a lot of times that people say, Well, I'm only that way when I'm working, or I'm only that way when I'm, with the kids, or, my personal and professional life are completely separate. Why do you think that they should be the same? they the identity should be the same. Well, I'm gonna use an overused word, but the only way you can show up authentically, honestly, transparently, is to be true to who you are. And that is both who you are personally and professionally. So let me give may I give you an example? Please. There's a family lawyer I worked with, and he was a bit older in his mid sixties, but he didn't yet have a personal brand because a lot of older lawyers It wasn't something people talked about 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. The law firm you worked for had a brand. Sometimes you knew what it was, sometimes you didn't. But it wasn't something that you had to act out or show up as or recite to others or anything. But now everybody is responsible for originating their own work and owning their own clients, whether you're a solo, a small firm, or in a very large firm. And so everybody has to have this distinguishing element. Family lawyer who did not have a personal brand. And where we ended up was he's aggressive enough to fight for me in court and kind enough to hold my hand through it. And I believe that's true of every family lawyer, because you really have to fight for your clients' rights and what it is that they want, assuming you can get behind it and you believe it as well. And you have to hold their hand because it's the most traumatic, stressful time in their lives. And you want to hold the family together and the kids together and all that sort of thing. So you have really have to have two sides to your personality. So there's as much personal branding in there as there is professional branding in there. That's so good. And I love that, being able to fight and then also hold your hand because it's such a great analogy and it's such a great visual aspect. See, this is the reason why she's called the brand whisperer. So So you talk also about attracting the right fish. How important is knowing exactly who you want to work with before you start building your personal brand? It's essential. It's really critical because you can't be everything to everyone. And you won't be hired if you're perceived to be saying, I can do all sorts of things and just hire me and you'll see. You really have to Just like you have to own your personal brand, you have to own the marketplace that you're talking to. It's your niche, it's your vertical, they're your people. So an analogy that is probably familiar to you also is the red velvet rope theory. Yeah. Of course. So I give Michael Port credit for the red velvet rope theory. But if you can envision a red velvet rope, and just like we see at sort of premiere exclusive events, when somebody's the right person, they open the rope and they let them in. Inside your red velvet rope should be everybody that you want to work with and that you want to want to work with you. Everybody else gets marginalized. You work with them if you have the capacity, if you have the time, if you want to, but they're not gonna be the people that you put your resources behind in terms of time and money to bring them into your red velvet rope. You wanna jump out of bed in the morning because you're excited to work with those people. They are your ideal clients. You want a whole pipeline of them. And so it's critical to know who they are, not only their pain points, because it has to be a problem you can solve, but also just who they are from a personal a personality standpoint. And it's interesting because if anyone were to sit down and make a list of who is my ideal client, you'd be looking at that list and thinking, my God, that's me. Because they are so often demographically like you. Unless you're in a more pro bono nonprofit kind of setting, they probably live in a similar zip code, they probably have the same number of kids or not, they probably eat at the same restaurants, they probab th because that's just those are the people you wanna work with because they're fun and you have a lot in common and intellectually you're on a par and all of those things. But you've got to know who that ideal client is, because that's where you're gonna put your resources. That's who you're gonna write. That's who's gonna be in your mind when you write your blog posts and your articles and when you do videos and when you do this. You wanna make sure that you're on the platforms that are frequented and accessed by the people who are really important to you because those are the people you wanna influence and persuade to hire you. my God, yes. I mean, it it it's like if you don't do this, which Unfortunately, not a lot of attorneys have a target market and makes things so much more difficult. And I love the fact that you are like, they're probably hanging out with the same people that you are. Unless, of course, you're Po Brono or criminal defense attorney. Like those people typically, you know, don't hang out with criminals, but or alleged criminals. But I think that that also gives that comfortable confidence that allows us to be like, yeah. I know these people because I'm part of this community. I'm part of this. And it gives me more joy when I can help them out, as opposed to I just have to do this. I just have to do a contract. I just have to get them out of trouble. Yeah, I just got like it pulls that that that excitement, that stimulation for and relatability. And relatability and relatability, yes. Which which is essential for marketing. And so when we're talking about that too, is there how do I say this? How can somebody stand out with that without feeling like they're trying too hard to like sell themselves? So there's an equation, which is the value a client gets. How do I say this? A client pays you a certain amount. That is your fee. Everything they get over and above that amount. Is considered value. It's what they're getting that they're not paying for. So any extra education you can give them, any ways that you can highlight them or spotlight them, any ways that you can bring attention to them, any work you can send their way, any way that you can invite them into the right rooms with you, those are ways that that's where the humanness lives. Yeah. So right. Yeah. And and I love how you were like the value isn't what they're paying for you. The value is going above and beyond so that it is a multiplier. But the more that you add value to people, the more they're you're going to be memorable. And that allows you to stand out in so many different ways. So you you don't have to be quote unquote selling yourself, which which I love. And you know, if you have okay, so You use the example of a family law attorney. what can make somebody memorable in a like a crowded market like that where they're basically doing the same services as somebody else? You know, do you have any like, hey, here's a tip for this? Because I I loved what you had said of they're gonna fight for you, but but hold their hand. But if somebody doesn't want to use that one and they want to be memorable. What is your suggestion on that? May I give you two examples and one is a family lawyer and one is not. Perfect. There was a very famous until he retired, a very famous lawyer here in Philly who worked for the largest global firm that was headquartered in Philly. And he was known every time somebody said the word antitrust, his name came up. It was just this automatic reflex action. He obviously didn't need to do business development because his phone continually rang. And I used to ask lawyers in the firm where I worked, what do you want to be when you grow up? who's your icon? Who's your role model? And every one of them mentioned this fellow's name. Wow. Because he was so well known for doing what he did well. But every morning when he drove to work, he called five people. Current clients, past clients, potential clients. And sometimes it was about the matter they were working on, and sometimes it was just, how's Johnny's cold today? You said he wasn't feeling well and couldn't go to school yesterday. Or how did such and such work out with your car? Were you able to get it resolved? And he got then he got off the phone and called the next person. And every one of those people got off the phone with him thinking, he really cares about me. Wow. He really likes me. He remembered me. So it's not about the matter you're working on. It's that personal touch point that makes a huge difference. So that's a to me a great example of delivering value and serving up value. So back to your question about the family lawyer. This particular family lawyer that I mentioned before. And he didn't think it was any big deal until I thought it was a really big deal. And then he started No, because he just had this habit of when he took on a new client, he would hind hand them a binder that he had prepared. Which was a glossary of all the terms we're gonna use or you're gonna hear and timelines of all the various things that would happen in their journey to resolving their case. And all the other things that they would need so that they felt secure that they had a resource and a place to go and didn't have to call every five minutes. What does this mean? When is this happening? But they had their own they could own some of it. They sort of had their own little textbook. I thought that was brilliant. I mean, what person going through that kind of stress wouldn't want to know that all the really basic stuff, what does this document mean? Why is it called this? Would be there for them. And that was a kind of value that I thought was just expertly served up. You know, you had to have signed on to be his client, but then that was yours. Yeah. And I just think it's such because otherwise there's this sort of barrier between what does this word mean? What is this term? What is this document? And then you don't have that. Yep. And that for the client gives them a lot of confidence about what their attorney is telling them and how strategic their attorney is, the the family law attorney. And especially in that time of their life, they need that. You know, that's really and and this probably isn't the same attorney, but that's holding their hand, right? It's here's the glossary, here's the things, here's what to expect. There you go, somebody's on my side. I love that because I feel like I've been all alone on this and I know that this person is going to fight for me. But okay, now let's do the flip side. Can you give me an example of something an attorney did, but not intentionally, that either weakened or confused their personal brand? Either weakened or confused their personal brand. Yeah, like what can what do what do lawyers sometimes do that Confuses people that they're like or it weakens it. It's like, Besides inappropriate shit that they do. that's just stupid. Well, I think if you're known to be a defendant's attorney, you represent the defend typically the company, the institution, the firm, whatever, and then all of a sudden you start re representing plaintiffs. That's very confusing. Yeah. Or if you're not for a Because if you're on both sides, you've got to make it clear to people that you do represent both sides, or that can be a really vexing thing to a client. Or if you're known to be a certain kind of attorney and then all of a sudden you're working on cases that are not, you know, even adjacent to that practice area. So is he or she really a specialist the way I thought they were? Or do they dabble? Yeah. You know, so you have to be consistent and you have a brand. Mm-hmm. So speaking of consistency, what role does consistently pla consistency, if I can say the freaking word, play in personal branding? It's essential. It's really essential. You have to show up the same way every time. You're in a kind in a way when you have a personal brand, you're making a promise to the marketplace. You're making a claim to the marketplace that this is who I am and this is how you're gonna experience me and this is how you're gonna see me. And this is how you're gonna hear me, and this is where you're gonna read about me or read my words or whatever. And so you have to keep that promise. Or to your previous point, it's very confusing. Yeah. Yeah. So real quick, Barbara, this goes back to what you were saying before. If you if the personal brand feels like yours, right, then you're not being like, okay, I gotta put on this mask during this event and this master in this event. Because that also becomes confusing, right? We're like, wait, I thought you were, and I think this is also goes to personality, is are if you're an outgoing individual, I mean, do you have to be outgoing the all the time? No, but if you're out there networking, yeah, that's a consistent brand. Like if I showed up at a networking event and I was really quiet, that's gonna confuse somebody. They're gonna go, What's wrong with Gary? What's wrong with him? There must be like Did his dog die? is he going through a bad time? Right. And I always say, if you feel that way, that you can't be, and I'm gonna overuse this word too, authentically yourself when you're going into a networking event, get the hell out. Don't go, don't go, because that's gonna confuse people, right? But you have to be that consistent individual. And I love how this comes back to what your brilliant wisdom was before is this is yours. This is uniquely you. And therefore you should be leaning into that and not thinking, okay, which personal brand am I gonna be today at this event, on this Zoom call, so on and so forth. So another piece of that is that never before have we all been in an environment like this where there's so much uncertainty, where there's so much confusion, every you don't know what you're gonna face every day when you wake up, really. And so the more certainty that you provide The more you take stress off of your client and your potential client, they want to know what they're dealing with and what they're gonna get. They need that predictability. They do. I think that's such a wise thing. So strong personal brands, how does that translate into actual business development? Like more referrals, stronger relationships, better fit clients, like the all of it. Like, but but we always wonder how is this gonna translate? To actually getting business. We need to think of our personal brand as currency. And so it buys us certain things. It buys us invitations into the right rooms or the right to be in the right rooms. It buys us access. It buys us credibility. It buys us. I always say your personal brand walks into the room before you do. It's so it buys you permission to talk to certain people. It buys you, it builds it's a trust accelerator. It buys you trust immediately. If you're wishy washy about what you do and what you stand for and what distinguishes you and who you want to work with, that's you don't have a brand. Mm-hmm. Yeah. my God. That statement. Is going to ring in my head over and over again, which is your personal brand walks into the room before you do. I think that's just brilliant because then you're really thinking about instead of I'm being in the moment, you're preparing in advance instead of winging it for your personal brand, you're intentional about it. And when you are, that can lead to so So much business. whether you're going into a room with a a networking event or you're going into a room with one on one potential clients, that is such a powerful thing. And don't you also think that that cuts down on the time of trust? Because it's like, should I trust them? I'm not sure. Well, it's a trust accelerator, yes. Trust accelerator. So you get much better way of saying it than me. Yeah, well it cuts down on all the other stuff. Yeah. Because if if you're really clear about what you are and what you stand for and what you do best and why you do it and how, the passion you feel about it and all of that, and then that's how people experience you, you've cut through miles of stuff of the debris and miles of stuff that you have to get through to build somebody's trust. And if it And if somebody knows, well, when I talk to him or her, this is what they're going to say, and this is how they're going to talk to me, and this is what they're going to offer to do, and this is the how I'm going to experience them, then you've cut down on all that uncertainty and you've been true to your brand. Yep. So true. So if someone listening realizes that they've never intentionally thought about their personal brand, what are some things? things they could do this week to start shaping that personal brand. I would pick five people, clients, potent former clients, potential clients, colleagues in your firm, friends, family, and ask them all the same five questions and see how you are perceived by them and if it's congruent with how you want to be perceived, or if not, what you need to do to change that. Because those are the people who are going to be most honest with you. So I would start there because we all think, all of us think that we're showing up a certain way, but we don't know. True. And to get somebody's eyes on that, and I think I may have shared this story with you before, but I had done this probably about nine years ago. And I asked people, you know, what was my personal brand? And two people said clown. And I was like, what the fuck? I'm like, so I called them and said, What do you mean by that? And they say, when when you're at because I only knew them from a networking group. And they said, whenever you're there, you're making people laugh. You're lightening the mood. And I'm like, okay, so what's wrong with that? And they're like, and that's it. We don't know what the hell is up in your head. So I see you as a clown. Somebody that entertains and makes people laugh. And I looked at it because I first I I was pissed because I'm like, who the fuck is gonna call me a clown? However, they were right. And I was so grateful. Because I I looked at my behavior during these things. I was adding no value in this other than being a clown, other than making people laugh. And I was like, holy crap, they're so right. But the magic in this was I changed it. And I was like, I don't want to be known as that person who is the clown. I still want to make people laugh. I still want to lighten up the mood. I still want people to be themselves in front of me. But also let's give them some value. Let's let's do something so that they can understand what's up in my brain and that I'm an extremely competent coach. But they wouldn't know that because they're like, You should teach stand up, comedy. And I'm like, that's not the way that I do. and so that awareness for me was great. And it came from what you were just suggesting is, asking five people. And but also be okay with what they tell you because that's their perception. Ask them to be extremely honest. Like I I'd never ask my family because they just love me too much and they're like you're great and you're wonderful and I'm like bullshit. it just reminds me of that Philadelphia show called The Goldbergs. I don't know if you've ever seen that show. I'm in Philadelphia and I've never seen that show. My God, one of the best comedies. How have you not seen that? is this family, the Goldberg. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, but this was like fifteen, twenty years ago when it came out. I didn't live here then. But Beverly Goldberg on there, her kids could never do any any problems. They were perfect in every single way, even though they weren't. They were total morons. But it was just this great thing that said, Yeah, I shouldn't do that. Like I need to I need to ask people that I think can give me honest feedback and then I can look at it and say, Is this actually true? Because it's true in their head. And they're not going to tell you, Yeah, you're a piece of crap, because they just don't. you because you you trust them. So they're not going to be the negative Nancy's to you unless you need to hear that. And I think that's a brilliant piece of advice. So if you want to then tweak as you did, how you're peep perceived, in a sense you need an accountability partner. Because you wanna be asking someone on some sort of regular basis, did you see any kind of change? Did you see any kind of transformation? Describe it to me. And what you do what you to use describe again, what you just described is really important because we were talking about the alignment to between who you are personally and who you are professionally. And if there's a gap, and in this your case there was, because they weren't seeing you seriously as the wonderful business development, you know, coach that you are, then you've got to know about that. I mean, think of the difference talking about Attracting your ideal clients, getting great referrals, all the things that you just mentioned that come to you when you have a personal brand. When you've tweaked that or fixed that, I'm sure your practice just really grew exponentially. Yeah. It really did, you know, because I went away from being a total asshole to just a little bit of an asshole during these times. my God, Barbara. This has been amazing. Your wisdom is incredible. Incredible. absolutely incredible. And for you lawyers that don't have a personal brand, call Barbara, email her. All of her contact information is actually going to be in the notes. Because if we just told you this, you wouldn't fucking write it down. So, but but seriously, you see what a brilliant coach she is. You see how kind she is. Just have a conversation with her because she is going to be able to take your practice to a whole nother level. And it's not just personal branding that she does. She does all sorts of business development and marketing coaching so that you are more visible, but just stand out in front of that crowd. I've known Barbara for a very long time, I think over a decade. And she's just a wealth of information. And Barbara, I so appreciate you sharing this wisdom. Thanks with people. It was a joy to be here. Absolutely. And and again. If you want to connect with her, her information will be in the show notes. So thank you, Barbara. I really appreciate you. Thank you, Gary. I appreciate you. That's it for today's episode of Unfuck Your Legal Market. If you got a spark of inspiration. Learn something new, or at least got a good laugh. Make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me. And remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.