Latest / Learn to Thrive with ADHD Podcast / Ep 70: Balance, Routines, and Finding Your Gray Space with Nea Clark

Transcript

Ep 70: Balance, Routines, and Finding Your Gray Space with Nea Clark · Learn to Thrive with ADHD Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Learn to Thrive with ADHD.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is the podcast for adults with ADHD or ADHD-like symptoms.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Coach Mandy John.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to make your life with ADHD easier.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get started.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right, welcome back, guys.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Nia Clark with us.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Nia is, I will let you go ahead and introduce yourself.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm based in the UK.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an ADHD coach, psychotherapist, counselor.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: I do supervision for coaches and psychotherapists and counselors.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I also teach in several institutes and universities.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And right now I'm an author, written my first book in September.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's been published in September and working another on another tool.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Being an ADHD person is just a lot going on.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, very much going on.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that answered a question that I was going to ask you.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have ADHD yourself?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm a combined type.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Part of inattentive and some part of impossibility there and hyperactivity as well.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you are an expert in that area.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now Nia has written a book already.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell them about the book that you've already written and the one that you have coming?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the book I've already written is this one, Traveling to the ADHD Mind.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's available on Amazon.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: If someone just googles my name, it pops up.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is aimed for psychotherapists and counselors who are working in the mental health industry.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Some people with children or some people for themselves found it very useful as well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I created a 12-step treatment plan in the book, a treatment pyramid, step-by-step describing for therapists and coaches and counselors how to work with ADHD.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: The issue which I came through supervision with is uh people just didn't know how to work with the neurodivergent element.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: If they just stick to the original treatment plan, probably missing so many bits and pieces.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I would have liked to just weave together both of them, the psychological and the neurological, in this book.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I have a lot of people come to me that have psychiatrists and therapists and things like that.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And they just sometimes they feel like they don't understand them.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I've also worked with therapists that have ADHD and definitely do understand their clients and psychologists as well who have ADHD.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's very important that you're getting this out into the world so that we're not left out.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like all the tools are there.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm very excited to you hear about this new book that's coming.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: You said in 2025, specifically for coaches.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I decided to write a book for coaches specifically because I had quite a couple of life coaching colleagues contacting me.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they said they just don't really know what to do with the neurodivergent element when they're setting the goals in the traditional way, how they used to work.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't always work with ADHD people and ADHD clients.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So thinking through what are the extra elements they can bring into their work, what are the extra factors they need to look at and work through and address, or just bring it into awareness for their clients?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: They need some guidance.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I decided to write a new book on this.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what would you say is different?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are these coaches that don't have ADHD themselves that want to know how to work with their ADHD clients that are contacting you?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what it's sort of a mix.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to draw ADHD people in my life.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think we might have this kind of thing going on with neurodivergent people, uh drawing neurodivergent others in and be sort of indulging in the experience.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I work with neurotypical people as well.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: When people are neurotypical, they find it difficult how to enter into that different mind, how to address the difference, and what kind of difference we are talking about.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because even when we're working with ADHD individuals, they're all different.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: We cannot just put sort of a one particular scheme on someone.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is how you are, and this is what's your issue, and this is how we go about it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: We need to explore.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And both of the books basically give some tools for for our colleagues, how to explore these individuals, how to explore their habits, their mind, their their impositivity, or for the inattentive uh individuals, how to explore what's in their very busy and very amazing mind.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And once we see that we can guide them.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and you talked about having a framework.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are there also tools in this book?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there are also tools in this book.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Beyond the framework is how to recognize a way of thinking and different beliefs, how to work with those different beliefs, which are maybe linked to actually the neurodivergence itself, not just other beliefs, what we generally work with.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: How can we work through masking with them?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: How can we work through different elements of managing their emotions with them?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's for everyone.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so this is interesting because I I mean, I don't know what your book has in it already, but I the way I work is I work on building people's executive function skills and with tools, and then we do habits and structures and routines.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then on this other side, I always say there's the mind management piece, which is our thoughts create our feelings, which make us take or not take certain actions, which get us the results we get.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how you said you marry those two because that's what I always say.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then we put those two together.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but outside of that, what might be in this book that might be helpful to people to hear it about?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I spent quite a large um chapter on the sensory economy.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do we manage our senses?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: What are our senses?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: All the eight senses are in the book.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens if one of our senses we we uh in in one of the areas of our senses we are hypersensitive or actually understimulated?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do we seek?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if something is too much?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: What are the different tools and the different tactics to work on to balance all of this out?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I created a sensory economy chart, which if if the practitioner follows, they can sort of map up which is the under stimulation, what is the overstimulation for the client so they know exactly how they can balance it out, what the client needs to do in order to rest, in order to have a sensory balance and a sensory peace.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I also created a big chapter on rest.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's not just sleep, it's way beyond sleep, is really important because our frontal cortex doesn't work otherwise.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: But um, beyond sleep, the different types of tiredness and the different types of relaxation beyond the tiredness.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I created a tree of uh exercise, some calming exercises, and some stimulating exercises, even with for the same client, depending on their day, on their week, or or maybe the life experience they are going through in the moment, they might need to choose different things for themselves at different times, different time periods.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So bringing all of this into awareness for the clients brings together a full-on treatment plan.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: How can they understand themselves and then manage themselves?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because the end goal is for giving them a tool or multiple tools or a full-on structure.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: How can they manage their own life?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: In this world, in this very neurotypical world, how can they find their courier, their habits, their routine, which brings them balance and contentment daily?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you talked about stimulation or overstimulation and or sensory issues anyway.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I immediately my mind goes to overstimulation, but also you said under stimulation.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think of we have these stores here in the US that are just massive.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And there's so many items in the stores, and they're usually fluorescent lit very brightly, and there's many, many people.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And walking into one of these stores for me, and I just heard somebody else describe this yesterday, um, but walking into one of these stores for me is just very overstimulating.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even want to go in there, but sometimes we have to.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so you talk about that balance.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you're getting very overstimulated by stores like this, do you recommend just avoiding them?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or is there some way to balance that out that maybe we're unaware of?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I try to avoid stores, but I cannot always avoid them.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, I do most of my Christmas shopping online, but then I had to go in for a couple of eye pencils and mascara and bits and pieces because I need the right shade.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a big daughter who uses most of the things that I use, and she has a particular taste.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So for sometimes I have to, but then I put earplugs in and I put a headphone on, and I go to a particular place for a very short period of time, and then I go to another place to maybe have a very quiet coffee.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it balances out the experience.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if I need to go to more than one shop within the store, I know what I want, I know what color I want, I know what the material I want, I go and pick it, and then I take it away, quickly pay, and then go and go to another place again where I can just sit calmly, quietly.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: There are some nice, quieter places, and there are some very, very noisy kind of coffee shops or restaurants in these places.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So finding the balance in the moment.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And once I've finished, then I know I might sit for three, four minutes in the car park in my car and wait for my senses to calm down.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I might put some very calming music on before I start driving, and then I get away.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: But for some people, they need the stimulation and they thrive on this.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: They love the noise, they love the movement, they get very excited.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some people actually get into the issue of uh overspending because they have uh an addiction around it.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we we have to work with lots of different things when we come to shopping centers.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that impulsive spending used to be a problem that I definitely had.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I found that I was seeking a feeling, not the thing, not the thing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And once I realized that, and once I realized that thing was not going to give me the feeling that I had hoped for, or at least it wouldn't be long last long lasting, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, then I was able to slowly but surely get out of that impulsive spending and thank goodness, because it's opened up a lot of opportunities in my life, not wasting money on things I don't need nor want a year later.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Some sometimes even a day later.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was the same with chocolates or cakes.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit of sugar, just sort of makes everything nice for five, 10 minutes.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I get very quickly sick from it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot really eat too much sugar because my body cannot tolerate it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I have a hypersensitive body to coffee, to alcohol, to anything.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Two weeks ago, I had a coffee accidentally made with coffee.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: For six, seven hours, my blood pressure was 168 per, I think, 98 or something.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it took me about 12 hours to bring it down.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And my blood pressure is normally 90 per 60 or 100 per 70.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a low blood pressure person generally.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And understanding how our body responds to different things when we come back to not necessarily just a sensory economy, but maybe anatomically and and metabolically, how our body responds to a lower amount of sleep or too much sleep, too much sitting, or too much exercise, or or having too much input around us.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: All of this do can't, and they are part of the treatment plan and part of the understanding and the experience.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, some of my clients have sensory issues around like water running down their arms or when they're washing their face and things like that.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: What can people do about things like sensory issues like that?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Need to probably find the right temperature of the water.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if if we're talking about uh uh that that kind of issue, which is belongs to the tactile experience with temperature and and the water is a particular consistency.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering if something would be thicker or something would be thinner, would it be the same?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: If it's is it cold, is it warm?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: When when is are they having trouble when they have a shower?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it just when they're washing their face and it runs under their uh coat or or jumper or whatever they're wearing and it makes everything wet?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is the issue?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's always the root cause, finding the root cause, what is the real issue in there?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can pinpoint am I working with the sensory system?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Am I working with with something um more obsessive?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening in there?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So time management is always something that I'm working on with people.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I'm sure you have information in your book about time management, but I also hear a theme of balance.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, what what do you have to say about time management?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest issues is time blindness, what I'm finding with ADHDs.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely with the inattentive types.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and how do we overcome the time blindness?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are we using alarms?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are we using reminders?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: What, and that's where you mentioned already our habits, what you what you talked about just a couple of minutes ago.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: We need to build those habits in which helps within finding time.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: If we go back to the old theory of left brain and right brain, they are living in Lala land in a timeless kind of wonderful world.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's with the most positive, um, in most positive way how I meant this.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because this land is wonderful.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: I like to take time out just watching the clouds.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like my Lala land, just doodling and and stepping out of responsibility.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Most people cannot do that.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Some intentive ADHDers can do it in a jiffy and they spend hours in it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the artists, my daughter is a singer, she sings beautifully, has lots of gigs and sings on stage, and she's living in the music of La La Land, absolutely, just constantly in touch with the music.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Headphones are always on.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she's getting the beat, she's singing, she's training her voice, then she becomes absolutely overfocused on it.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But when she needs to connect to a different task of managing things like time management or responding to others in messages or whatever, that's a little bit lost there.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So she needs a bit of help from outside.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that description of inattentives because I'm actually a hyperactive.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but I have friends that are inattentive, and I've of course had many, many clients that are inattentive.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love the positive nature that you speak of like the daydreaming part of it.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's just really beautiful.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my audience is professionals and entrepreneurs.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say they need most?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, most of the entrepreneurs are probably combined types.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: When I'm working with entrepreneurs, that's what I'm finding.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They have a lot going on in their heads, but at the same time, they have the high productivity and mainly the impositivity.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Some entrepreneurs hold like five, six, seven businesses at the same time, and they're really enjoying jiggling everything and and uh jumping from one thing to another.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: For them, multitasking is easy.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do have a square in the in the book about the four different types of attention deficit, uh, not four different types of ADHD, but the deficit in attention, which which one of them is sustaining attention.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is um is managing to pull out.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking if I can find it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the other one is the selective attention, which has issues with ability to filter out every single background noise or movement around or the lights.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: The other one is the shifting attention when someone can jump from one task to another without any problems.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the fourth one is the divided attention when someone can focus on two things at the same time.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And some people have issues with all four, but some people only have issues with one.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, it really impacts the ADHD, what type of ADHD people have.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So an entrepreneur who can hold five, six businesses definitely can jump from task to task.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have an issue with multitasking, or they don't have an issue with changing in between, but they might find very difficult to hold and sustain attention to one particular thing, or they might find difficult to filter things out.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's just Yeah, I as an entrepreneur myself, I own, I'm just starting another business and it will be my third.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And besides being a mother and a wife, um, and most people might look at that with trepidation, but I'm looking at it like, well, I'm getting bored.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I need I need one more thing, and this is something I enjoy.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So why not?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, why not make a business out of it?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I am that person that is happy to jump from task to task, but I I offer that sometimes to my clients as an option for managing their day.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, if you're cleaning the house, you can set a timer in one room for 10 minutes, jump to the next room and work 10 minutes.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And for some people, that's fantastic.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what, that's how I work, that's what I enjoy.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And for others, they really feel like that that breaking in task would make it where they're not as effective in the first thing that they were doing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: They want to really concentrate on that one thing for longer because they feel when they go back to it, they're gonna have to kind of start all over.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just so interesting.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love your the four parts that you talk about because yes, we're all we're all very similar in some ways and we're all very different in other ways.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing I wanted to talk about in in time around time management is routines.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to learn to manage my time.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is a several years ago, and I was trying to learn to follow a calendar and really struggling and really going back to my coaches and saying, this isn't working.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but this isn't this isn't working.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is very difficult.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: I won't look at the calendar.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I won't do what's on the calendar.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I heard a psychologist say, you can't be mentally healthy without routines.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, gosh, do I have routines?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I I kind of looked at my day and I'm like, no, I don't have a morning routine, I don't have an evening routine, I don't have a work routine or an exercise routine necessarily.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so developing in those routines, it was a game changer for managing my time.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: You look like you have a thought on that.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think not just the time, but probably your dopamine levels as well.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I felt very calmed by it.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was interesting.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I and I to this day, several years later, will still have to go back to the the calendar widget on my phone and go, okay, what's next?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do next today?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even though it's been many, many years.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to kind of normalize that for people.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you feel like, um, gosh, I should not be forgetting this after all this time.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I should I should just know what's next.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's memory.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have memory.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband will ask me all the time, he said, Well, do you have an appointment right now?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like meaning in the next 10 minutes.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Let me look at my calendar.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just okay with that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it can be very frustrating to other people.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: How can people build their working memory, for example?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a difficult one.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know because I couldn't.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: My version of memory is systems.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know I have a chef with teas.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have another chef with the sugar and coffees and chocolates.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Then I have another shelf with the canned food.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I have a drawer with all the flour and sugar in, and another drawer with all the pasta in.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have a drawer with the gluten things, and I have a gluten-free drawer because I cannot eat gluten.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: If I eat gluten, my mind completely goes.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's uh I created systems, but if something is not put back where we agree, it will be.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't find it.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't find my glasses most of the time.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of them, which I always hunt.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the other one is my phone, these two, because they have lots of different places.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether it's upstairs, downstairs, kitchen, wherever they are.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't necessarily have a home that you can keep them in because you need you use them so often, I'm assuming.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the routine helps with the memory because sleep impacts the memory.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: What type of food we are eating impacts the memory, level of exercise impacts the memory.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And building the routine around our life and figuring out how we can function in our optimum, how can we function in our best.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then we have the routine to support this.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the routine is different for everyone.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Some people like to sleep till midday because they have a delayed sleep routine.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter which time zone they're living in, their body clock is just not working the same way as others blood body clock.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they like to stay up at night because their brain is the most functional.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I wake up without a clock every morning, six o'clock.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: But after seven o'clock, I'm useless.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and I know I cannot put any work on or consultation or anything after seven o'clock because it's not gonna work.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I end my day very early, which is it's nice that I can do that.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I, in planning my calendar yesterday, I was putting on some important work tasks and very cognizant of the fact that, okay, if you put that at the end of the day, it's not gonna happen.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I made sure I put that earlier in the day when I was, I knew I would be able to work on that.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I can very much feel that like after a certain point, you're just done.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay, especially if you can you have complete control of your time.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but people that don't, that say professionals that are working in corporate or something like that, you probably have some control of what order you do tasks in, and making sure that you're using your effective time, your your time when your brain is most effective, your time when your motivation, motivation is is fickle, but um so I I hate to use that word, but the time that you are are going to be most apt to work on those things.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's prioritization.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then the question is am I prioritizing myself in terms of my energy levels, or will others dictate what do I do?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's how people, if we're talking about entrepreneurs, they have the chance to prioritize their energy levels.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: If they have more energy in the morning, work in there, if in the afternoon or midday, work in there, if in the evening, work in there and put different things.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: If things are more enjoyable, then it's easier to bear.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: If um, um I cannot say everyone, but I definitely hate admin.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, doing invoices and toxis and admin and putting together data and whatever but I need to do that, and I need to put that on a day when I feel like, okay, I'm in my optimum, I have a lot of energy, and I can do this, I can bear something where I need to pull my head back every five, 10 minutes.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm in the flow and writing, I don't want anyone to disturb me.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to write and write, and usually the way how I write, I dictate it, and a program transcribes it for me because my typing would be much slower than how my brain works, and then I forget half of it, and I just want to have it done on paper, and then I can edit and do the different stages in there.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's really recognizing what flow we are in and and what energy we have, and then I need time to rest and relax, and sometimes do nothing.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the nothing is never nothing.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I might be a chestnut around Christmas time or putting my my cranberries in in the jar, the cranberry gem that I like to make around Christmas.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's a relaxing kind of thing for me, and yeah, I cheer with it, and my brain can just be there and enjoy the smell and the taste and the stimulation.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about, and I feel like these two things are kind of related, but task initiation and procrastination is uh a very big topic for a lot of people.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I always tell people if I could just do that that I had this like realization one day, and this was a few years ago, that if I could just do what I said I was gonna do when I said I was gonna do it, I would have no problems.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And every day people are coming to me.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm procrastinating on this.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have my reasons why.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's we feel like we don't know how, we feel like it's going to be too big or take too long.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I always kind of forget the third one, but um it's it's escaped me right now.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you feel is the reason for people's procrastination or or not getting started on things?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I developed two different procrastination matrix in the book.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: With the aim that people can really find a root cause.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are different types which are in comparison with each other, and and the other matrix is based on sort of life tasks or life areas.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the coach can choose um how can how they want to work with the different matrix, because there are lots of different reasons.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: There some procrastination is conscious and chosen because because there is a chosen delay in order to prioritize something else.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And quite a lot of procrastination is subconscious.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: People don't really know because of fear, because of um usually confidence problems.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: They they're not sure if they can do it until they do it and they prove it for themselves.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: They can do it.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a self-worth problem.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't believe they are worthy of succeeding and achieving in that particular area.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a result of overwhelm because they have lots of things at the same time in their head.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things are shouting, and they don't know which one they should do first.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then that's when they just withdraw.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: It happens often with the inattentive type.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: They just withdraw and then they just try to incubate there, and then they go down, down, down, down, and quite often into depression and want to be just alone.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a good place for them.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have a tool I call a now not now list because immediately, and it's almost everyone, immediately I am trying to get all that information that's in their head that they're just holding there off onto something else.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And whether that's a you know an app or a you know, a document or you know, planner type thing, and I actually have them take the big list and hide it from themselves, basically.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we're gonna look at that big list at least once a week and see if anything needs to go on to the smaller list, if it has like moved up in priority.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: But just that emptying it all out of your brain helps so much with like calm and peace.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then as things pop in, then you can also add them to the list and so that you're not holding on to things.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think holding on to so much information and the worry that you're going to lose that information or you know, not follow through on something can be very, very stressful.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I fully agree.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like to do a phase like what we normally do in uh uh project management, have different kinds of tasks with different time periods, and then sort of group them together and then prioritize them within the group.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So then they know, okay, I probably have six months to do all of this, not with not a week.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that can just go to the back of the mind, and we don't need to look at it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: But what's the urgency?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And can we leave some space for some extra urgency to come up?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because we always have life, just a car breaks down or a kid gets sick or whatever.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of then reorganizes things, and finally, when we have things in order, we feel like okay, I can nail this, and then something else comes in, reorganizes everything, then the stress comes back with everything else.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about urgency and the the fact that people like to use it to move forward on things.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: They like to wait until like you know, the last day to do the paper or that kind of thing.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you feel people should just work with, or is that something that they should learn to break down that task and and spread it out?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in shoots.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I believe what's work what works for people.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the last minute doesn't work because it depends on the level of the projects, what they need to do.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: They cannot really pull it together in the last minute.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on the level of the thing, what they do.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the last minute works.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely having AIs, I think it's a really good friend for ADHDers because things can be pulled together so fast, so much faster.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And because of the AIs, they they can pick up the speed.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are quite speedy people, so we need someone to be able to follow with the right pacing when we're talking about something or we jumping in topics.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Just since we're talking, probably we touched about 10, 12 different topics, and I'm so much enjoying this jumping with you and talking about different things and dipping our toes into different areas.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the wonderful thing to talk with someone who is alike and and has an ADHD mind and has expertise in this area for a long time.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: It it I'm I'm interested in what works and what makes that because sometimes ADHDs can just pull so much information together in the last minute.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and if if they are confident with that, work with it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: If it's stressing them out because they're procrastinating up until then, and it impacts on their mood, then we need to deal with it because it's bad for them.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work for them.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it really depends on how they experience it.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's been my experience is that when they lean on the urgency in order to get things done, it's at a cost.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's and that cost is usually stress.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I get the feedback often from my clients of I just can't do this anymore.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can't continue to live this way.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where together we are are breaking down um projects and and starting to spread it out into smaller pieces.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for some people that's just difficult to do on their own.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice to have another person on the other side.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you're doing the same thing with with your clients, helping them to break things down.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do that?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we break down the shower routine and we do towel, where we put our clothes, where do we put the towel afterwards?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: When do we brush teeth?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just going through very elementary, very basic things.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: When do we have the food?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do we need to have food before the shower or after the shower?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get our energy?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so on.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: So these are very important things because people, when people come home after work, they tend to be really grumpy because their sugar level is down.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: They have all the stimulation from the work, they find it difficult to settle down or relax.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the moment they sit down and start to relax, then they don't want to get up because then they get into that relaxation phase when no one should disturb them ever again.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's what works for whom.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I had clients who are partying every single night because they need that dopamine and they need to relax and they are out till two o'clock at night.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: You something that you said there just sparked a thought for me.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the simple routines.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for saying that.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of my clients don't think that they should have to break down simple things like a shower, was the example that you used.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I had to.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: I um I was somebody that was chronically late for a very long time.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it drove my husband crazy because I wouldn't, I wouldn't just be a little bit late, I would be like an hour late or more.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And church was a great example is I would always be at least an hour late for church.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he was kind of embarrassed to kind of walk in and it's already going, and you know, we're just barely showing up.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this was really frustrating for him.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he's super nice.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it didn't get solved as quickly as it should have been.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I did have to break down simple things like that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what I what I didn't know, I didn't have time awareness of like, how long does a shower take?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And okay, why is the shower taking 45 minutes?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: What was I doing in there?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And creating a routine of like, okay, first wash the hair, then wash the face, then wash the body.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just appreciate you normalizing that for people that sometimes it is the simple things.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes it is the simple things we really need to figure out routines around.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:01
  unknown: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is a big help.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, what have we not talked about that you think is important from your work?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I like the topic of masking.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, please.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about that.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: How we pretend to be all together and then getting to that point where we feel like I'm really not together.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I need to get out today, and I'm really not together.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: And or just procrastinating the getting ready till the last minute.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then I need to pretend, and I'm really well together and rushing and driving like crazy or whatever.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there are there are lots of different.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: I created a um masking matrix as well.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of different types of masking coming with um pretending that uh people don't feel um academic and they are they are actually quite academic, but they don't feel like that, or they don't feel social.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Usually we think about masking as a social thing, but we have lots of other areas where we might be masking or or fully camouflaging and and pretending we are so different from how we are.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I like to be really real.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's I'm a human being with my mistakes, with not finding my glasses, and and I'm sometimes late, or sometimes just on the dot.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And because I can I can really multitask and switch between tasking.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I don't need too much time to shift.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: But after a while, if we do that, it it makes us absolutely overbound.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we deal with masking bit and how do we deal with the shame around it?
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Helping people to become authentic to who they are and finding the real self, living with it and creating a life according to their soul, according to themselves.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so how do people remove the mask?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do they just do it little by little and being honest with people, or what what does that look like?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: Honest with themselves.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: I believe the whole work, what you mentioned, building the routine and managing the sensory input and so on, once they become aware what bothers them, how can they balance things?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then they probably don't feel ashamed anymore.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then the mask can be removed because there is no fear anymore.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I just remove the mask, but I didn't work on the other things, they will feel really vulnerable and harmed if they go to others.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not necessarily really about others, it's mainly about the self.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: It makes me think of a coaching concept, the and.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you you talk about, you know, losing, you know, losing glasses.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I lose things and sometimes I'm very organized.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you also mentioned your your great organization in your kitchen.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I heard it described as like my mother.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm a mother of three, and I'm a good mom and a bad mom.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that just normalizes things.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can think about it in all the different, you know, like all the different executive functions.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm organized and disorganized.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I procrastinate and I get started on things on time.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what if we're just both?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that is the human experience, is we're not necessarily one thing or the other.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are both.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if we can accept that we're both, just what peace that would bring for many, many people.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that conversation.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for bringing that up.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I also think of people that feel the need to mask, and it's very painful for them, especially like in the workplace or at school or where they have to be professional.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like you have a thought on that.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's the interpsychic dialogue.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really curious what's going on in there.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: What are they saying to themselves?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: How can we work with that?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: How can we address that?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: How can we change the beliefs?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: How can we question the beliefs in there and check is that really true?
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: I like Byron Katie's work on this.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I love Byron Katie.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's the work in there?
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is that really true?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where is that truth coming from?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Where are shoots coming from?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and questioning all of this.
• 41:37
  unknown: Yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was just working with a client yesterday, and we were talking about time management, and she was talking about being late for things.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she just decided I'm just bad at time management.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: And she was going through and she was telling me, and she's like, you can ask my friends.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: My husband always says that I have no idea how long things take.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she was telling me this whole long story about how bad she was at time management.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I explained to her that in telling that story of you are bad at time management, it's like driving a car and just taking your hands off the wheel and just going, I'm just bad at it.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is the story I'm telling about myself.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that it reminded me because you talked about like what are they believing about themselves?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I explained to her, if you continue to believe that you are bad at time management, you will only find evidence that you are bad at time management.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore, you have no ability to change.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we came up with some examples where she was actually really good at time management in certain ways.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: And she was very aware of time with in certain aspects.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I really sent her away with the action item of let's start noticing that story we're telling about time management and start finding the positive things.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Start looking for the positive evidence that you are good at time management.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: And also you're becoming a person who can manage your time.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're learning to become a person who is managing their time and offering that.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that just those those underlying beliefs that we have about ourselves can just be so disempowering.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: The black and white.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: If we split it up, it's just gray.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have everything in the gray.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's so interesting you say that because I was going to put a painting, I was going to create it because I couldn't find it.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: But in in getting coaching certification, I really felt like I moved into the world of gray.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that sounds sounds really dreary, but it's actually a wonderful, wonderful thing because I was a very black or white person before.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in learning concepts and in learning, learning and in working with people and learning all these different things, it was like the and, right?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's moving into the gray space.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just this or that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: It could be in the middle.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't feel like I'm making good sense with that.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Can you explain that in a different way?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're on the same page with that.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Completely understand.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: What you're talking about.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that is what that is any too.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: But moving into the gray, I would say, is just an acceptance of not only yourself and your strengths and your weaknesses, but also an acceptance of other people and their ideas and their their flaws and their strengths.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And just moving into the gray of like nobody has to be perfect here.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to be perfect.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Could you say that again?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's an ADHD thing.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't ever get offended by that.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good enough is just okay.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to be perfect.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: If we are good enough, if things are good enough, then it's just all right.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I we're that's gonna definitely be a quote that we pull out of this conversation.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Nia, I want to give time for you to tell people where to find your work, where wherever you want to direct people to.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the book is on on Amazon and uh it's traveling to the ADHD mind under my name.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if just someone puts Neo Clark in, then it will come up.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: And my website is neoclark.com.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's again very simple.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And if people want to send me anything, then they will have a little window there.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: They will they will be able to email me through that one.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I can respond.
• 45:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I noticed with the book, if you um have Kindle unlimited, it's free.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's wonderful.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have compines on.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it it depends what the agency is doing.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they put it on free, and sometimes it costs, I think, was it nine dollars fifty, something like that around.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: And wonderful thing in the butt, I wanted to make a big difference between the printed copy and the Kindle edition because some people can't afford the printed copy.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a much lower price to be able to just get it.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And even if they don't have a Kindle, they can download it to a laptop or a tablet or something, and and then they can view it there.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a big price, but it often has a um zero cost, so just please keep watching it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and quite a lot of people, I think I had nearly 2,000 people purchased for no cost because we had the promotion on for several days.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: You made it very, very accessible, and that's wonderful.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for the work that you're doing.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just ADHD left on its own and not getting the help that you need, whatever that looks like for you, is a lot of suffering, in my opinion.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of my life there was not that my life was bad, but I felt a lot of overwhelm, a lot of anxiety, and it was just all unnecessary.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: I could have reached out to someone like you, someone like me, and and gotten the help that I needed.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I like that you have made your work so accessible, and um, I can't wait for the book next year.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking forward to getting that myself.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was really lovely to talk to you, Mande.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Feels nice.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Nice to talk to you.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm I'm finding these conversations really stimulating.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: I usually just pause afterwards.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to a yoga in about half an hour, closing my day.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And very nice.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be able to get the buzzing out of my body.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Very good.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: That balance that you're talking about, right?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Nia.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your time.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.