Latest / Untoxicated Podcast / Ep252 – Is Fear the Only Emotion?

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Ep252 – Is Fear the Only Emotion? · Untoxicated Podcast

0:01
Welcome to the intoxicated
0:03
podcast.
0:05
Well, I'm Sherry S, and that was my
0:07
husband Matt. We have questions about the impact
0:10
of alcohol and addiction on relationships. If you
0:13
have those kinds of questions to you're in
0:15
the right place, Here we go.
0:20
Be afraid.
0:21
Be very afraid.
0:24
You remember that line?
0:25
From a movie? Oh,
0:27
kind of I it's definitely familiar. So like
0:30
Liam Ne or something?
0:31
No.
0:32
I don't remember. Listeners help us out. Someone
0:35
tell me what Movie that was. Sakes. Just
0:37
send an email on it. There's just... Yeah.
0:39
That's We're gonna talk a lot about fear
0:41
today, Sherry.
0:43
Turns out I'm a petrified person pretty much
0:45
all the time.
0:47
I didn't realize that till I started thinking
0:48
about it,
0:50
but I'm scary afraid. And you're overthinking about
0:53
things? Which makes me think that what people
0:55
are really gonna wanna do is get to
0:57
know us,
0:59
you know, old scared cat over here and
1:01
miss confidence
1:03
and in an effort to help people to
1:06
get to know us. We are hosting another
1:10
q and A session information and q and
1:12
A session about our programs
1:14
on August first, this time in the evening,
1:17
the first time we did it back in
1:18
June It was a morning video call. This
1:21
time, we're gonna do it in the evening.
1:22
06:30PM
1:24
in the Mountain Time zone.
1:26
We will talk about shop sobriety. We will
1:28
talk about echoes of recovery. We will have
1:31
someone from each of those 2 programs on
1:33
the video call with us.
1:35
Bonus, we're also gonna have a couple on
1:37
the call that does the marriage evolution with
1:40
us our third program.
1:42
And so the purpose of the call will
1:44
give a little bit nation. We'll have these
1:47
these participants in the programs on to tell
1:50
a little bit about why
1:52
they decided
1:53
to spend some time with us and connect
1:55
with us. And we'll take questions from our,
1:59
video call audience.
2:01
The reason that we're doing this is because
2:04
there seems to be a little bit of
2:06
a barrier between listening to the podcast or
2:08
reading our book or our blog
2:10
and reaching out and connecting and pursuing possibly,
2:16
joining our tribes. And we just love people,
2:19
and we love getting to know people and
2:21
interacting with people and learning their stories,
2:24
and
2:25
we want to do whatever we can.
2:27
To eliminate that barrier. And so just a
2:30
free, no risk,
2:33
hour spent, question, answer style,
2:36
seems to be a good way to lower
2:39
that barrier of fear that people have. So
2:42
if you're considering joining on August first at
2:45
06:30PM
2:46
in the Mountain time zone,
2:48
just send an email to matt at sober
2:51
and una shane dot com,
2:53
and I will send you a link, a
2:55
zoom link for that video call. You can
2:58
use an alias. You don't have to turn
3:00
your camera on. You don't have to turn
3:02
your video on and we will never repurpose
3:04
that email.
3:05
We won't follow up later and be like,
3:07
hey, what'd you think?
3:09
What do you say? You gonna join us?
3:10
Like, nothing cheesy and slimy like that. Just
3:14
a 1 time email to get that link,
3:16
and you can participate at whatever level you'd
3:19
like, you can jump in and ask questions
3:21
or you can sit listen to the questions
3:23
of others.
3:25
But it it really is it is all
3:27
about
3:28
bridging that gap between...
3:30
I'm an avid podcast listener, and
3:33
I actually wanna connect with these people
3:35
and trying to eliminate some of that natural
3:38
fear that takes place.
3:41
What do you think, Sherry? I think it's
3:43
a great idea.
3:44
And I had fun in June doing it,
3:46
and
3:47
I look forward to doing it in August.
3:49
Okay. Great. August first. August first. Yeah. 06:30PM
3:53
out which would be 08:30 eastern, 07:30 central
3:56
and 05:30
3:57
on the West Coast.
4:00
Great. So
4:02
that little promotion is about eliminating fear. I
4:06
wanna talk about when of my many personal
4:09
fears
4:10
as we promote once again, our alcoholic intimacy
4:14
survey. If you are the loved 1 of
4:15
an alcoholic,
4:17
and
4:18
you would be willing to take our survey
4:20
about intimacy in your relationship. Please go to
4:23
alcoholic intimacy survey dot org
4:26
We've had the survey open for several months
4:28
now. The end is near
4:31
because pretty soon,
4:33
it'll be time to analyze the data, and
4:35
we'd really love to get a few more
4:38
survey
4:39
responses.
4:40
Okay. Here's here's where my fear comes in.
4:42
Here's what I would normally say.
4:45
I would say things like gosh. We're really
4:47
close to a really big milestone as far
4:49
as number of responses is concerned. I would
4:52
say that or I would say things like
4:54
We have received 3 times the number of
4:56
responses we initially expected.
4:59
Those are both true. We are really near
5:01
big milestone, and it is 3 times what
5:03
we thought we would get.
5:05
But the normal me mister insecurity over here
5:07
would never reveal what that milestone is. Do
5:10
you know why Sherry? I would keep that
5:12
milestone close to the vest?
5:15
Oh, wow.
5:16
First thought that came in head is that
5:18
you don't know what your milestone,
5:20
your personal milestones. Do you think I'm just
5:21
flat outline? No. I just think... Because at
5:24
first, when and I spoke about it. You
5:25
were underestimating.
5:28
I thought you were underestimating how many responses
5:30
we would get. So
5:32
maybe as we got more, you kinda upped
5:34
the ante a little bit, but you would
5:36
be afraid that we wouldn't hit it and
5:37
you would look silly not hitting that milestone.
5:42
Yes, Ish. Yes, ish. It's
5:45
it's not a matter of not knowing what
5:47
the mail known is because
5:49
once the initial first wave of responses came
5:52
in, I I kinda changed my goal from
5:55
the initial goal
5:56
to what it is now. It's impostor syndrome.
5:59
I'm afraid that if I say out loud
6:01
what the milestone is, and it's 500. It's
6:03
500 response. We're really close to 500 responses
6:07
were 35
6:08
responses away from 500 responses.
6:10
Just to be even more specific. But I'm
6:13
afraid some listener out there there's gonna be,
6:14
like, 500.
6:15
They think that's a good number. They've only
6:18
gotten 500 responses so they're stupid rate. Clicked.
6:21
I'm never listened to these bo again.
6:24
Or
6:25
I don't know. I don't know. I don't
6:27
know. It's just all in security. It's like,
6:30
it's not real. It's not important unless it's
6:34
10000000. We all want we're almost a 10000000
6:36
sir face.
6:38
Why are you just laughing? Because I'm thinking
6:40
there's so many other parts of our podcast
6:43
that I'd be able like, click. I'm never
6:44
listening
6:46
again.
6:47
It wouldn't be about the number of 500
6:51
Sorry.
6:52
No. You're right. This lots of reasons not
6:54
to listen to us.
6:57
But, yeah, Total impostor syndrome insecurity,
7:01
I... You know, and I cannot. I have
7:04
so much impostor syndrome and security that I
7:06
cannot
7:07
say this next bird. This next part is
7:10
as part of going to grad school, I've
7:12
read a ton of research
7:14
and
7:15
looked at a bunch of surveys. 5 hundred's
7:18
actually a really good number. App For a
7:20
behavioral,
7:21
you know, kind of personal behavioral survey. Well,
7:24
and it's talking about intimacy. So even though
7:26
there's no,
7:28
you know, there's no tracking of your name
7:30
to your answers that is gonna come up.
7:32
It's just... It's so scary to put that
7:34
out there. People don't wanna talk about that
7:36
even an anonymous survey. That's right.
7:39
So
7:40
I think that's good. 5 hundreds is a
7:41
good number. Yeah. They're defending my security. But
7:44
we're not there yet. So we need a
7:46
few more pieces take the. 5 more. 35.
7:49
Let's just say 40 to make sure that
7:51
that we get it over 500 that we
7:53
can say, over. 5. Well if you do
7:56
understand how this works. When people take it,
7:58
they don't know what number they are, how
7:59
many other people took it. So what we
8:01
need is everybody who hasn't taken it. Please
8:04
take it, and then
8:06
you will be part of that. Oh, god.
8:07
I think how special you could feel. Being
8:10
1 of those last 35 to put us
8:12
over this huge milestone of 500
8:15
that you might be sitting and their thinking
8:17
isn't that big. It is. It's big.
8:19
It's huge. I'm excited. So if you're interested,
8:22
and if you were the loved of an
8:24
alcoholic, and you're interested in getting us over
8:27
that big hump,
8:28
go to alcoholic intimacy survey dot org.
8:32
Thank you very much in advance.
8:37
Okay. So let's talk about Instagram? Because why
8:40
not?
8:41
You and I use Instagram.
8:44
I I don't know how to you use
8:45
you use Instagram. I don't think you use
8:46
it much more than this. But we basically
8:49
use
8:50
Instagram to
8:51
watch funny videos
8:53
about half cat videos and half other non
8:55
cat things
8:57
at night before bed. And just kinda... It's
8:59
kind of in place of, like, you maybe
9:01
used to watch a sitcom,
9:03
you know, 10 years ago and further back
9:06
or 5 years ago and further back. Mh.
9:08
But just a little bit of light hearted
9:11
joy and,
9:13
you know,
9:14
just giggling at stupid stuff.
9:16
And I... That's really the only thing I
9:18
do on social media for the most part.
9:23
There's this... Do you use Instagram for anything
9:26
besides that? I have, like, some people that
9:28
I follow that little tips for exercises or
9:31
crowds for
9:33
like, you know, kids,
9:37
yeah Kids what? Like, kids you can steal
9:39
for kids. Craft crafts for kids. Got.
9:42
Yeah. Like, for Sunday school and and So
9:45
not for feeling trafficking.
9:46
No.
9:47
K. No. Just kinda of creepy and weird
9:50
that I even said that. Yeah. I was
9:52
like, did I not say words in that
9:54
last sentence that I spaced out? You kinda
9:56
said I use it for kids and then
9:58
you kinda... Yeah. You did catch.
10:00
For for crash for... Yeah. I trying to
10:02
think... You know, and on other games and
10:04
sort of things that would be useful in
10:06
my job. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
10:09
But there a period of time. But must
10:12
work half of the days a week when
10:13
you and I lay in bed and we
10:15
giggle at Instagram videos before we shut her
10:18
down for the night. Yeah. Yeah. So,
10:21
that's... There's probably,
10:23
you know,
10:24
psychologist listening that's that can
10:26
verify that that's a bad way to turn
10:28
your brain off. There's prob... It's probably not
10:30
right that we do that. But we do.
10:33
And there is this Roger Federer
10:37
graduation speech. He was the commencement address at
10:40
Dartmouth this last May
10:42
that is going around the Internet certainly going
10:45
around Instagram. I've seen it
10:47
probably a half a dozen times at least
10:48
now,
10:50
different cuts of his video.
10:52
But
10:53
he...
10:54
It's really cool. And that's not what this
10:57
podcast is about, so I'm not gonna really
10:59
talk about it. But
11:01
it's motivation It's a motivational speech that he's
11:03
giving to college graduates.
11:05
And so, you know how... Well, none of
11:07
us really know how. But the algorithm works
11:10
in such a way that Once I've watched
11:12
that Roger Federer
11:13
Roger Federer video,
11:15
6 or 7 times. Now for a while,
11:18
all Instagram was giving us was motivational speaker
11:21
stuff, like, self help stuff. Yeah. That's not
11:23
why I'm watching this literally I want the
11:25
cat videos and the... And I want the
11:28
guy, like, stepping on the end of the
11:29
rake and the other end of the rake
11:31
smack them in the face. Right?
11:33
I want that kind of stuff. Yeah. I
11:35
want somebody run into the porta potty grabbing
11:37
their butt trying not to put in offs.
11:39
Look, I don't care. Yeah. And you gotta
11:41
to stop, like, that's why I don't, like,
11:44
you know, I know there's certain algorithm in
11:46
for time when you like it and how
11:48
long you watch it. So that's why when
11:50
and we're watching together. I'm, like, just that
11:53
motivational be go swipe quick. I don't ever
11:55
Don't wanna get stopped. Okay. That's right. It's
11:58
time stuck on it. Yeah. For sure. I
12:00
don't ever like stuff. I'm 1 of those
12:02
social media people. I don't ever like. I
12:04
don't ever comment. I don't ever show any
12:06
interest whatsoever.
12:07
But yeah. The algorithm does track how my
12:09
time I spend on that video. Mh. You're
12:11
right. So anyway. So we're getting all this
12:13
motivational speaker steps stuff. And 1 of them
12:17
said
12:18
that they're it... And I like to give
12:20
attribution, but I don't know who it was,
12:21
and I scrolled past it pretty fast.
12:23
But he said there's only, like, 4 or
12:25
5 emotions, and then he said words that
12:27
all rhyme. Sad glad mad,
12:31
and then something else that I can't remember.
12:34
But it got me thinking.
12:36
You you know, you've got this guy saying
12:38
there's only 5 emotions.
12:40
Lots of people say anger
12:42
isn't really a thing. It's a cover for
12:45
something else.
12:46
Then you've got out there on the big
12:48
Bad Internet and publishing lots of best selling
12:51
books. You've got B Brown,
12:53
who is without question and expert on emotions,
12:56
perhaps the leading expert, like, of our time.
13:00
I don't know. What do you think about
13:01
that?
13:03
Yeah like statement.
13:05
Yeah... Yeah.
13:07
I think atlas of the heart kinda talks
13:08
about emotions a lot more than some of
13:11
our other books, but
13:13
Yeah. So you've got that. Then you've got
13:16
our podcast
13:17
episode 02:48.
13:19
Episode 02:48 with Lori Panel,
13:22
who is an expert on emotional intelligence,
13:25
and she gave us listen of words listen
13:28
of emotion
13:30
and talks about the power of just naming
13:33
that emotion, like, there's science behind the power
13:35
of naming emotions.
13:36
So you've got lots of people saying that
13:38
they're a variety of different emotions
13:42
that exist and that we need to have
13:44
some emotional intelligence about.
13:47
In my overs simplified little,
13:50
you know, brain that doesn't...
13:52
That for for whom that is too complex,
13:55
I believe there's only 1 emotion.
13:57
And that emotion, Sherry? Drum roll?
14:00
Is fear.
14:03
What do you think? Well I gotta explain
14:05
it more before I can ask what you
14:06
think? I think fear is the only emotion.
14:10
You know, in the work that I did
14:13
to determine my the underlying cause
14:16
of my addiction.
14:19
That's kind of,
14:21
fear was very, very prevalent.
14:24
I grew up at, you know, as a
14:26
in my head, adolescent days in a physically
14:29
safe
14:30
environment
14:31
in emotionally kinda wave home environment.
14:34
There was always love and support,
14:36
and enough food clothes, things like that. But
14:40
there's always teasing.
14:41
There were high
14:43
expectations, and there was
14:45
irrational.
14:46
I think I grew up in a pretty
14:47
typical
14:48
middle class home. You know, nobody beat me.
14:51
Nobody nobody physically abused me or sexually abused
14:53
me. But there was a little bit of
14:56
little bit of stress there from time to
14:58
time.
14:59
You know, I'm sure that my parents could
15:00
argue that it was based on my shitty
15:02
behavior was when there was stress there, and
15:04
that's is entirely possible.
15:06
But
15:07
there was know, so that's kind of the
15:09
scenario.
15:11
Then moving forward in high school and college,
15:14
the path was always super clear for me.
15:17
Go to class,
15:18
get decent grades,
15:19
graduate.
15:21
And I was pretty fearless about that. I
15:24
I never really struggled in school. I always
15:27
understood
15:27
why I was there. There were certainly there
15:29
were classes I didn't like and classes I
15:31
liked more, but it was it was pretty
15:34
straightforward.
15:35
Not a lot to be afraid of, then
15:37
my career started,
15:39
and
15:40
I started to experience,
15:42
you know, specific accomplishments, like you get a
15:45
raise.
15:46
You get a promotion or you get transferred?
15:49
And so
15:50
my life started to... I started be able
15:52
to view my life in kinda like tears.
15:54
Right?
15:55
So you wanna reach the next level. You
15:58
wanna get the next promotion. And I would
16:00
feel temporary satisfaction from that.
16:03
But pretty quickly, I would set my mind
16:06
on what the next goal was.
16:08
And this is when I think fear really
16:11
started to creep in for me.
16:13
I would start to feel like I was
16:14
not enough or I wasn't gonna get to
16:16
that next level,
16:17
or
16:19
fear of, you know, in comparison to coworkers
16:23
that I hadn't
16:24
gone up the ladder fast enough.
16:27
Does that make sense? Yeah.
16:30
I mean, it makes sense for me, not
16:31
necessarily you. Right? Yeah. And then, you know,
16:34
we owned our own business.
16:36
Talk about fear. There's no financial stability in
16:39
owning your own business.
16:41
You know, you can work really hard and
16:43
there isn't a paycheck twice a month automatically
16:45
coming.
16:46
And then I started to fear not only
16:50
advancement in promotions and getting to the next
16:53
level, but I started to fear that we
16:54
were gonna lose the things that we had
16:56
already worked so hard for and accumulated.
16:59
So... And it
17:01
coincides that really, my addiction really ramped up
17:04
when we owned our own business,
17:07
I was using
17:08
alcohol medicinal
17:10
to treat my fear.
17:13
Mh. All of this. You still with me
17:14
and all this? Yeah I'm I'm listening and
17:16
processing and comparing it to my outsider viewpoint.
17:20
From,
17:22
you know, like, what I saw. And hopefully,
17:25
your viewpoint from what you experienced. Yeah.
17:29
Let's pause then. And viewpoint of being an
17:32
outsider or, like, outside of your brain. Yeah.
17:34
But I don't feel like you lived in
17:37
fear like this.
17:39
When we... Like, let's say, when we moved
17:41
to to Chicago, for instance, that was a
17:44
tran... Promotion, a transfer. Mh. And we got
17:48
there, and
17:49
you
17:50
found a job and
17:52
I had my job, and I feel like
17:53
you were a lot more content than you
17:55
weren't... You know, there wasn't a period a
17:57
temporary period of satisfaction than you were immediately
17:59
trying to figure out next. Yeah. Is that
18:03
fair? I mean,
18:04
I kind of ironically,
18:06
that was a place where I did switch
18:07
jobs
18:09
more frequently. Mh.
18:11
But I didn't have fear
18:14
of finding another job or worry or concern
18:17
of of moving up a matter and, you
18:19
know, and
18:21
like, making sure that, you know,
18:24
that I found a job right away after
18:25
1 job ended, like.
18:28
That wasn't a necessarily a fearful. I mean,
18:31
I never sensed fear you. I've never sensed
18:33
fear from you about anything career wise.
18:36
The only place I've ever sent fear from
18:38
you is kid related. Mh. You know, and
18:41
that's just the nurturing instinct that you have,
18:43
I think. Yeah. But I think that that
18:45
also comes from,
18:47
maybe it's 1 of those situations where I
18:49
knew you were worrying enough for both of
18:51
us and had fear there. Yeah. But I
18:52
also knew
18:54
enough about you that
18:57
if I didn't get a job that helps
18:59
the income at. In Chicago for a little
19:02
bit, we would make it. You know? Yeah.
19:05
Like, I never I never had fear that
19:08
you wouldn't work and do and a second
19:10
job if you needed to if things were
19:12
were bad. Even like,
19:14
you know, when we closed bakery and and
19:16
things like that. So I guess I never
19:19
had that fear because I
19:21
felt like I knew who you were that
19:23
you would always
19:25
that we would work it out. We'd always
19:26
make it work. That feels nice to hear
19:28
you say that. Thanks. You... At least that's
19:30
an area where you trusted me. Yeah. That's
19:32
pretty great.
19:33
Okay. Let me keep going with my mounting
19:36
fear. So I was recently cleaning pictures out
19:39
of my you know, years of
19:42
silly pictures that I've got on my phone.
19:44
And
19:45
I came across 1 from a few years
19:47
ago.
19:48
I had taken a screen shot of an
19:50
email
19:51
from our
19:53
like, our
19:54
podcast host that said we had reached 10000
19:57
downloads on the intoxicated podcast.
20:00
And that was momentous enough that I took
20:03
a screenshot, and it brought me a great
20:05
deal of pride and satisfaction to reach 10000
20:07
downloads.
20:09
Well,
20:10
I'm realizing as I'm saying this out loud
20:12
this sounds like a horrible humble brag
20:15
or maybe not humble I'll spread. But we...
20:18
Now that's a... You know, we do that,
20:19
in a month, we do 10000 downloads.
20:22
So what 1 me a great deal of
20:24
satisfaction and pride and excitement over
20:29
this podcasting that we're doing at now,
20:33
that's, you know, kind of irrelevant or not
20:35
irrelevant, but insignificant. Mh. And also, by the
20:38
way, talk about where working in my fear.
20:40
I just revealed
20:42
another number, and I hate revealing numbers out
20:44
loud. Yeah. And and me, I would be,
20:47
like, is that good or but. I said
20:49
day or is that a month? Alright. Got.
20:51
Had it was... It's such an arbitrary number
20:53
that... I know, I had a former coworker
20:55
that I had his own podcast and would
20:57
ask me like, how many we get And
20:59
I'm like, I I don't know. He's like,
21:00
what you don't look and I'm like, no.
21:02
I don't look... I don't care. We put
21:03
it out there because it's good for us.
21:05
And if it reaches and helps people then
21:07
great, but I'm not looking for the. Do
21:09
they call it blessed and release something like
21:11
that? I I don't know. That's what an
21:13
artist needs to know to do, like,
21:15
just do your best and throw in the
21:18
wind and hope. Yeah. I'm so jealous of
21:21
you for that. I cannot tell you how
21:22
jealous I am.
21:24
Yeah.
21:25
But so, you know, a number that once
21:28
brought Joy
21:30
is now nothing more than, like, a Mains.
21:33
Like, great. Yeah. But but it's worse than
21:35
that. It's not just the norm. It's also
21:38
something I'm afraid of losing. Yeah.
21:40
You know, I'm afraid... I'm not excited to
21:43
have reached that or even excited to have
21:45
reset on a monthly basis. I'm mean, I'm
21:47
scared billable backside.
21:49
So
21:50
that's what's great about my brain. I have
21:52
the ability to be afraid of anything. Maybe
21:54
I should be getting the emails with those
21:55
sorts things.
21:57
I won't tell you and you won't know,
21:58
and sometimes
21:59
his place.
22:00
Yeah. I don't know. I think I I
22:02
think that would drive me crazy.
22:04
Crazier.
22:07
I think fear while I'm on to this
22:09
whole fear thing, Share. I think fear is
22:11
a continuum.
22:12
I think it's our only emotion. I think
22:14
when fear is high,
22:16
the other words that we use
22:19
the other emotions that are popular
22:21
considered, like anger,
22:23
you know, fix fiction,
22:26
intolerance,
22:30
losing sleep being grumpy, rum.
22:33
I think all of these things happen
22:35
natural early when our fear is high. When
22:37
our fear is low, I think we feel
22:39
joyful
22:40
or content,
22:42
of we sleep through the night.
22:44
We can be a joy to be around
22:46
as humans.
22:48
And
22:49
alcohol really served the purpose of quench fear
22:52
for me.
22:53
Alcohol made the fear disappear. When we talk
22:56
about using alcohol to deal with emotions
23:00
that what really
23:02
kinda lights up my brain and says, yeah,
23:04
You're on to something
23:06
is if I think about
23:08
fear making in security go away or worries
23:11
about the future or regrets from the past.
23:14
That's all fear. Mh.
23:16
So
23:17
that was the medicinal purpose of alcohol for
23:20
me. You have less fear.
23:24
You have less financial here. We already talked
23:26
about that. You just kinda... And I I
23:28
am so thankful to you, but you just
23:30
kinda
23:31
trust me that that'll be okay. You contribute
23:33
you're a big part of it. And sometimes
23:35
when I'm stressing about something, I'll sit down
23:36
and we'll talk about numbers together and you're
23:38
very smart. You're very analytical. You're very capable,
23:41
but you don't sit there every day and
23:43
worry
23:44
about financial things.
23:46
You get a great deal of joy for
23:48
me a parent,
23:50
you work
23:51
in a joyful environment with kids.
23:54
And, like, here's a great example.
23:56
I don't think you're fixated in your work
23:58
with children both as the children's minister in
24:01
our church, and you also
24:02
work in the preschool that's housed in our
24:04
church.
24:06
Teaching. I don't think you sit there and
24:08
worry? Like, are we gonna get another kid
24:09
enrolled? Is someone else gonna join? Like, is...
24:12
Am I doing a good enough job a
24:14
teacher so that
24:16
word is gonna make our our classroom grow
24:19
or, you know, the 1 that's more directly
24:22
related your direct responsibility.
24:25
Are we gonna get more families to join
24:26
the church because they've heard how awesome this
24:28
children's program is? I don't think you sit
24:30
around and worry about that all the time.
24:31
Do you? I don't worry about it in
24:34
that
24:35
regard. I worry about it in a in
24:37
a bigger scope,
24:39
like, oh, I hope we get more families
24:40
to join because it is such a great
24:43
environment. And for me, I do feel like
24:45
church is a good part of life.
24:47
Like,
24:48
the the ritual of going to the service.
24:52
Yeah. So that I do, but it's it's...
24:55
I don't rum or fix aid on it.
24:57
How often do you think about that?
24:59
Oh, when we have 1 or 2 kids
25:01
short to that school. I'm in its summertime
25:04
or ski season. So
25:07
January, February
25:08
and
25:09
July and August, I think about it more.
25:11
Because those are are less And and obviously
25:14
until I've tracked it a little bit. Those
25:15
are when we have less children
25:17
in attendance
25:18
because of
25:20
season, ski schools,
25:21
and then summer vacations. But you don't just
25:24
sit around constantly thinking about. No. Just us.
25:27
That sounds great.
25:29
So, yeah, just when I think of the
25:31
things that bring me
25:33
fear,
25:34
I just think you have a lot less.
25:36
What about? So we've talked many times
25:39
in you in your growing up in your
25:42
at, lessons,
25:44
your
25:46
your father... Your mother and father got divorced,
25:48
and you didn't see your father as much
25:49
as your mother. And then eventually, your mom
25:51
rem aid, and that relationship sadly didn't work
25:54
out either.
25:55
Does any of that leave you with a
25:57
fear of abandonment?
26:01
No.
26:02
I don't think
26:04
so.
26:05
God.
26:07
Because I think because my main parent, I
26:09
feel like was pretty secure. And then I
26:11
had
26:12
both
26:13
grandparents for both sides that were pretty
26:17
involved.
26:18
And then I had my mom's sister for,
26:21
like, the first 6 or 7 years of
26:23
my life lived in the town.
26:25
That we lived in, so... And she wasn't
26:27
married yet. So
26:29
that was, I think, a good bond.
26:32
Got emotionally secure much over there, sherry.
26:36
I have to like a rock. Butt shit.
26:38
No,
26:39
barely.
26:41
Yeah. That's
26:42
That's all... That's good for you. That's great.
26:44
Doesn't. I I'm not hearing much that would
26:46
make me want a self medicate or feel
26:48
the need to self medicate maybe that's why
26:51
addiction has never been a problem for you.
26:54
I... You know, I will say I've never
26:55
had really
26:57
relationship fear.
26:58
Mh.
26:59
I mean, my parents are still together.
27:02
There was never any...
27:05
What's the word?
27:06
Us us... No. Os sized.
27:11
In my family.
27:12
Well, see. We have a in my myself.
27:14
But he doesn't bother doesn't defend you. Because
27:16
he was a dick. That's why.
27:20
You're like crazy secure. You're like, sales those
27:22
are gone. Do that. He was a bad
27:24
guy. But I think 1 of the reasons
27:26
that when you detach for me in my
27:28
active alcoholism that was so effective because that
27:30
was the first time in life when I
27:32
did have any kind of fear of
27:35
abandonment
27:36
or fear that a relationship wasn't gonna work.
27:39
And so when you pulled away and I
27:41
started the sense that you might be
27:43
packing your bag soon or kicking my ass
27:45
out,
27:46
that really really was effective because it was
27:48
the first time in my life I'd had
27:50
any kind of fear of abandonment like that.
27:55
Yeah. Yeah.
27:56
I mean, I will say there were, like,
28:00
after you were after that first year, year
28:03
and a half of sobriety this time. And
28:06
we were trying to figure out whether or
28:08
not the relationship was repair, if we really
28:12
liked 1 another if we had
28:16
compatibility
28:17
and
28:18
ironically, we just watched something on compatibility
28:20
the other night in which I thought was
28:22
bullshit.
28:23
Like, you can get along with anybody if
28:24
you try. Won't know. You can't really. Oh,
28:27
you can't. Oh, I can't. I can't.
28:30
My gut feels me that I can't till
28:32
me. Nope.
28:33
But there was a time that,
28:37
you know, there was a there was an
28:38
issue when we were dealing with the intimacy
28:41
piece of the relationship, and it we were...
28:43
Obvious it's obvious and looking back now. We
28:46
weren't ready
28:47
to go there. Mh.
28:49
And you were trying to push it just
28:50
a little bit too hard. And so my
28:52
defense is kicked in, and and we had
28:55
some pretty serious talks
28:58
about
28:58
what each of us wanted in the relationship
29:02
as far as the intimacy and sexual piece
29:04
goes,
29:05
And I mean, we had conversation like, well,
29:07
if it can't go in this direction at
29:10
some point,
29:11
you know, maybe we're just not gonna be
29:13
together. Mh. And that was a big fear.
29:15
And I wouldn't say the fear was my
29:17
motivator to push
29:19
through. We had to work through some other
29:20
stuff, and then we revisited
29:22
the
29:24
sexual
29:25
piece of the relationship.
29:27
But that was the only time I was
29:29
fairly fearful.
29:31
And I think it was because you were
29:33
changed
29:34
from the alcohol and the things you had
29:36
learned in recovering,
29:38
you were
29:39
kind of not so much in a bad
29:41
way, but standing up for what you wanted
29:43
out of the relationship long term, and I
29:45
was still so hurt and scared and un
29:48
trusting of you.
29:49
I didn't even know if I really liked
29:51
you anymore.
29:53
I'm I'm trying to find that. So then
29:54
I was, like, fearful that, like, maybe I
29:56
really didn't want to fix that piece of
29:58
the relationship because I didn't wanna put that
30:00
much effort into the the relationship
30:04
and then be, like, well it still doesn't
30:05
work because I still don't really like you.
30:07
So if it didn't
30:09
encourage you or push you to move into
30:11
areas of
30:13
intimacy with which you were not comfortable at
30:15
the time,
30:16
did push you and motivate you to work
30:19
on other areas of recovery? Yeah. Yes. That's
30:22
brilliant. Motivated other pieces. Like, because well for
30:25
1, I wasn't gonna you just bully me
30:27
into working on something I wasn't ready for.
30:30
But I think you really. Good. Nobody should
30:32
bully someone
30:34
intimacy especially. Yeah. Well, I think that we
30:36
realized that there was just more resentment
30:38
and trust and building fun part of the
30:41
relations? What to your credit at that time,
30:43
you acknowledge that
30:46
intimacy is an important part Yeah. Of a
30:49
romantic
30:50
partnership, and you might not be there yet,
30:53
but you did wreck you didn't just call
30:56
me a horn and... Brush it aside and
30:58
tell me, you know, it's my fault that
31:01
it is what is. You be recognized. Okay.
31:04
This guy's working on his stuff.
31:06
This is a legitimate
31:07
desire that he has and eventually, we're gonna
31:10
need to get there. And then you figured
31:12
out the way to get
31:14
the foundation built so that you could go
31:16
there. It's right. Impressive. Right. Well, I just
31:18
knew that I wasn't quite ready to...
31:21
I felt... I just felt in my gut
31:22
that there was another piece that needed to
31:24
be worked on before we went to that.
31:28
Let's talk about a very common area fear
31:31
for the loved ones at alcoholic.
31:34
The, you know, fear living in constant fear
31:38
because you don't know what your alcoholic spouse
31:41
it... What kind of mood they're gonna be
31:42
in.
31:43
What they're gonna say, how they're gonna show
31:45
up,
31:47
how intoxicated they're gonna be? Are they gonna
31:49
have been drinking? Or are they gonna lock
31:51
about how much they've been drinking or if
31:53
they've been drinking,
31:55
all of that creates nervous system activation.
31:58
Which we've talked about many times. But when
32:02
you're,
32:03
you know, you're afraid
32:05
of your own partner and what their status
32:07
is gonna be not physically afraid. I think
32:09
this is important because
32:11
a lot of people think oh, their own
32:13
you know, I've never hit her. I've never
32:14
even threatened to hit her What she have
32:15
to be afraid of. Well,
32:17
a lot.
32:18
If you're afraid of the
32:20
emotional safety or the lack thereof in your
32:23
relationship,
32:25
then, you know, that puts you in Fight
32:27
flight
32:28
fauna or freeze mode, nervous system activated.
32:32
And
32:33
that is, you know, being
32:36
perpetually
32:37
activated your nervous system, that will kill you.
32:39
That is not a safe place to be
32:42
long term,
32:43
you know,
32:44
fight flight is meant for, you know, a
32:47
dangerous life threatening,
32:50
acute
32:51
situation, a short term situation and staying in
32:53
that long term
32:55
is no way to live.
32:56
And so
32:58
this fear
33:00
driving us in a nervous system activation
33:03
can actually do
33:05
physical biological damage to the partner of an
33:08
alcoholic can literally kill you can cause, you
33:12
know, things like
33:13
heart attacks, and another stress related,
33:17
you know,
33:18
biological,
33:19
functioning
33:20
problems.
33:22
So I just think it's interesting to acknowledge
33:25
that the drinking of another person
33:28
can create a level of fear
33:31
in the loved 1 of that person
33:33
that it can actually do serious damage or
33:36
even kill you. Mh.
33:38
Yeah.
33:41
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I'm just I'm just
33:43
thinking of, like, people that I know that...
33:46
Have
33:47
been in those situations and how they have
33:51
lifelong health issues now.
33:54
You know,
33:55
like, they have to deal with because it
33:57
can... That,
33:58
you know, the
33:59
body keeps the score book tells you so
34:02
much, but I just... When you were talking
34:04
about that, I'm just 2 people talk
34:06
popped into my brain then I'm like, yeah.
34:09
They have lifelong
34:11
challenges
34:13
and health issues as result from living in
34:15
that,
34:18
active state. Yeah.
34:20
Yeah.
34:22
So
34:23
let's talk about
34:25
the fear continuum.
34:28
I I think, and I think a lot
34:30
of people do as well. I know you
34:32
do. I think that things like addiction. There's
34:35
not a... Yes, no. It's not a light
34:37
switch that flips on or off.
34:39
Addiction is there's a progressive nature to that
34:42
disease.
34:44
You go from una addicted to whatever level
34:46
of addiction you end up at,
34:49
and it's it's a gradual
34:51
decline, basically.
34:53
And
34:54
I think you could have varying levels of
34:57
addiction to varying things.
34:59
Obviously, alcohol really hit me in the sweet
35:01
spot.
35:02
It alcohol was very effective at dopamine hijacking
35:06
for me.
35:07
So my brain
35:08
would reserve
35:10
dopamine release only for when I drink alcohol
35:13
eventually. That's another entirely different topic.
35:16
But
35:17
alcohol was something it was very easy for
35:20
me to become addicted to. I only smoked
35:22
weed a few times...
35:24
But it never really hit me. It it
35:26
didn't hit me in the sweep spot. It
35:27
wasn't my thing. So it was easy for
35:29
me to avoid a marijuana addiction because I
35:32
just didn't really like how it felt.
35:36
There... From what I'm seeing, there are 2
35:38
reasons why it was easy for you to
35:40
avoid an alcohol addiction.
35:42
1
35:43
is, I just don't think you had the
35:45
underlying causes
35:47
necessarily. You didn't have
35:49
you were
35:50
afraid all the time like I was. So
35:52
there was less kinda driving you to need
35:55
to self Medicate. But even if you did
35:57
need to self Medicate, alcohol probably wasn't gonna
35:59
be the thing you would have chosen because
36:01
as you've shared before on the pod, can
36:03
cast. You know, yeah. You enjoyed getting a
36:05
buzz. But after a couple of drinks, you
36:08
started to worry about what the hangover was
36:10
gonna feel like the stay, and
36:12
you didn't feel eu for as I've described
36:14
it, you felt more kinda,
36:16
light hitting and que and a little bit
36:17
out of control. Yeah. And I didn't like
36:20
that. But, I mean, it didn't stop me
36:21
from sure from getting plastered, You know, I
36:25
was younger. Yeah. But, yeah, I never I
36:27
always regretted it. There was, like, just regret
36:30
after about drinks 3 or 4. Yeah. For
36:32
anything more. So... Well, and so for me,
36:34
someone who's experienced a severe addiction.
36:37
I can look at other things in my
36:38
life
36:39
and
36:41
look at how addicted I am to them.
36:43
Obviously, with all this fear of losing things
36:46
we've already
36:47
worked so hard for,
36:50
like, a work addiction, work.
36:52
That's an
36:53
automatic no brainer. Of course,
36:55
I'm gonna do
36:57
I'm gonna do too much of the thing
36:59
that I think is needed to hold on
37:01
to the things I'm afraid I'm gonna.
37:03
Mh. And
37:05
so many of the people that we've met
37:06
through this work who had alcohol addiction also
37:10
have
37:11
you know, some kind of work related addiction,
37:13
and it makes perfect sense to me. If
37:16
they had a fear that drove their alcohol,
37:18
addiction that had something to do
37:21
with
37:22
accomplishment
37:23
or
37:25
accumulation or
37:27
or
37:27
financial stability, any of that, then obviously,
37:30
addiction is gonna be an easy place for
37:32
them to go for a addiction.
37:34
Have had
37:36
to varying degrees, some food related
37:40
you know, addictions. But when I say to
37:41
varying degrees, that's very important because I really
37:44
look at addiction as being on a continuum
37:47
on the 1 side,
37:48
you have no
37:50
addictive pull whatsoever, like,
37:53
so as I have never enjoyed sewing.
37:56
I've never thought, gosh if only I sold
37:58
more.
38:00
I would be more peaceful.
38:02
I've never thought about the joy that sewing
38:04
could bring. Even so cheap like me. I
38:07
haven't thought, gosh, if I learned to sew
38:08
so, I could save money on clothes. Like,
38:10
that is never clothes. Those. That has never...
38:14
Yeah. Been a pull for me whatsoever. So
38:17
when we think about addiction as a continuum,
38:19
you know, sewing is on 1 side and
38:21
alcohol on the other side for me, alcohol
38:23
is the sweet spot here. Like it is
38:26
for literally millions of us. Mh. And so
38:29
on
38:30
So... You know, And then... But that's not
38:32
even all the way on that side of
38:34
the continuum. Right? Because I could be an
38:37
end stage alcoholic, and I could die for
38:38
my addiction. And where I'm literally drinking around
38:41
the clock,
38:42
and I've stopped functioning. Otherwise, I've stopped going
38:45
to work. I've stopped self care. I've stopped
38:47
worrying about anything other than where I'm gonna
38:50
get my next drink.
38:51
So
38:52
you've got this big
38:54
spectrum, this big continuum that
38:56
alcohol lives on.
38:58
I believe
39:00
that fear is a continuum as well.
39:03
And on the 1 end, you've got fearless.
39:06
On the other end, you've got debilitating fear
39:09
and all these emotion words that we use,
39:12
they just live
39:13
somewhere on that continuum. And So
39:17
joy,
39:18
Euphoria, happiness, all these
39:21
emotions that we desire and that that we're
39:23
happy when we're in them,
39:25
Those are just a lack of fear. Those
39:27
are fearless.
39:29
Okay?
39:30
And on the other end, the debilitating fear
39:32
side,
39:34
you know, that this is where
39:36
sleepless
39:37
and,
39:38
you know, Paranoia
39:40
and just kinda terror and chaos
39:43
and trauma. It all lives on the super
39:46
fear
39:47
filled side of the continuum. And most of
39:49
my time is spent somewhere in between lives
39:52
but sadly, a little too far on the
39:54
fear side.
39:56
So I want your reaction? What is your
39:58
reaction to this theory
40:00
that I this hair brain theory that I've
40:03
got now that there's only 1 emotion. There
40:05
is fear and lack of fear,
40:08
and all the other ocean words we use
40:11
actually live somewhere on that continuum.
40:17
Well, usually, because I bat and swat down
40:20
every idea you have at first. That's just
40:22
my gut instinct.
40:24
But I also
40:27
I I get what you're saying for sure,
40:30
like it being
40:31
this
40:33
spectrum.
40:35
But I also would really be sad that
40:37
there isn't a
40:38
another side of the spectrum where there's, like,
40:42
you know, there stops the fearless,
40:46
and then it continues and fearless is like
40:48
middle point and then it continues on. No.
40:51
See the happier side. So you think there
40:53
need to be 2 emotions and fearless is
40:55
just the midpoint.
40:58
But I can see why fearless would
41:01
allow all those other good positive sides. So,
41:05
yeah, I guess look... Let's let's look at
41:07
what,
41:08
you know, 1 of them... Reasons it was
41:10
so hard to quit drinking
41:12
was
41:13
when I would describe the Euphoria I would
41:15
feel, which was usually
41:17
about 2 Ipa and new... Like, if I
41:20
was gonna drink for the night after about
41:22
2 Ipa,
41:24
I would start to feel this eu euphoria
41:26
feel. I know you're you're gag at the
41:28
side of drink 2 Ipa because you don't
41:30
like the bitterness of the Ipa. Yeah. To
41:32
But about 2 in, I would start to
41:35
feel this eu historic feeling.
41:37
It I mean, that was
41:40
good as I've ever felt, honestly, that's sad
41:43
and pathetic to say. I felt that way
41:45
for other things. I felt that way with...
41:47
For as things with our kids, I felt
41:49
that way for things in our relationship. I...
41:52
Occasionally,
41:54
although I live, spend a lot of of
41:56
my high school coaching days on the fear
41:57
side of the spectrum,
41:59
I have occasionally felt that way about something
42:02
that's has happened on the soccer field. Since
42:04
you have quit drinking. Yeah. Yeah. So there
42:06
are places where I feel that euphoria,
42:09
but when I think about it, it's this
42:12
you know, uni uninhabited,
42:15
like, nothing can phase me kind of a
42:17
feeling. Mh. And that's... I mean, think about
42:20
how this, plays into
42:22
why people get in trouble
42:24
drinking
42:25
addiction or not.
42:26
They have a few drinks, and then they
42:28
do stupid shit that they otherwise wouldn't do.
42:31
Why do you think they do stupid shit?
42:34
Because they're fear because they're fearless. No ambitions.
42:38
No inhibition.
42:40
And so when there is that lack of
42:42
fear, there's also all this room for youth
42:45
you know, I keep using the word euphoria,
42:47
just blissful joy.
42:49
Mh.
42:50
I don't know. I'm asking you to react
42:52
to something that I'm just presenting to you,
42:54
you know, live and unfiltered. So I think
42:56
it's kind of unfair for me to ask
42:58
you.
42:59
That's okay.
43:01
Yeah. I just...
43:02
I I feel like
43:05
there are also levels
43:08
of...
43:09
Contentment and happiness and joy,
43:12
and it's kind of ironic that me, the
43:14
pe is kind of
43:16
going and in the opposite direction. I feel
43:19
like that's another side because there are people
43:21
that have, like,
43:23
extreme, you know, exuberance and and just our
43:26
very joy full. And,
43:29
you know, and maybe they're living a really
43:31
shitty, fearful life, but it's just who they
43:32
are.
43:33
Like, they're really positive.
43:35
Well, I think those are the big pendulum
43:37
swing. Right? Yeah. You sometimes feel ex zoo
43:40
and
43:41
extra joyful,
43:42
but I... Guarantee somewhere behind closed doors those
43:45
people are feeling the debilitating,
43:48
you know, grip of fear. Yeah. Because you
43:51
can't have... You can't go high on 1
43:52
side of a without going high on the
43:53
other side sometimes. Yeah. We learned that from
43:56
doctor Anna.
43:57
Yeah. Dopamine nation, look at me accurately attributing
44:01
something. You know, I didn't even have to
44:02
research Just recalled that so well. I love
44:05
her travel love her book Out of you.
44:07
Yeah. I've just...
44:09
I'm know. It just seems kind of
44:12
sad
44:13
in a way
44:14
that we describe it, like, you know, that
44:16
there's only fear is 1 emotion and don't
44:18
here's the driver for all the other emotions.
44:22
I just kind of like of imagining like
44:24
a za bon,
44:25
like driving around the,
44:27
like, oh, when you're fearing fearful today. So
44:29
we're gonna put you over in this penalty
44:31
box and you're gonna live with anxiety over
44:33
here and maybe it's also because I saw
44:35
it inside out too. Did that a am
44:37
bon and inside out to? They don't have
44:38
a za bon but should place hockey. And
44:40
then, like,
44:43
over here saw you know, you're scoring goal
44:45
and,
44:46
you know,
44:48
and
44:49
I don't know. I do. I mean sports
44:50
is a great example, Sherry. I mean, talk
44:52
about something that has inhalation and heartbreak.
44:55
Mh. I mean, the pendulum swings hard in
44:59
athletic endeavors.
45:01
And so ugh, maybe that's why,
45:04
you know, about half of the Us population
45:06
is addicted to sports 1 way or the
45:08
other, whether it's playing it or watching it
45:09
or betting on it or Mh.
45:11
Or just using as an excuse to drink
45:13
beer. I mean, I think there's a reason
45:15
why it's
45:16
it's a part of it. It's that pendulum.
45:18
I'm so Yeah. I would be really or
45:20
interested to learn and,
45:22
you know, and to think about that more.
45:25
I mean, you say it's sad
45:27
that
45:28
I think I think you're you you're perhaps
45:31
locking in on the fact that fear is
45:32
a negative emotion and you're saying. It's sad
45:35
that the only thing there is a negative
45:36
thing. Yeah. But then also that's the negative
45:38
thing is you're is is a positive thing.
45:41
And there is a there is a good
45:43
level of fearing things. I mean,
45:45
you know, like, I for 1 will not
45:48
surf
45:49
because for 1, I'm getting too old now,
45:51
but I have a very strong fear of
45:53
sharks in the water.
45:55
Like been in the ocean before. Half. But
45:58
But not out on a surfboard. No. In
46:00
in the in the shark zone. Yeah. Yeah.
46:03
Yeah. You know? So
46:05
a navy also because I'm watching Shark week
46:07
and their.
46:09
It is the summer... It is the summer.
46:11
So, you know, I mean, there is... But
46:13
there is a healthy level of fear that
46:15
I do have appreciate and get. I just,
46:18
you know, also coming off of the podcast
46:21
with Lori,
46:22
I think you said was 02:48,
46:25
thinking of all the words that are other
46:27
descriptors
46:28
than just
46:29
then just happy or sad. It was And
46:32
I remember
46:33
doing some research about the my anger
46:37
issues,
46:38
and this was, like, before I think you
46:40
even had
46:42
like, try sobriety wants for 6 months. But...
46:45
And it talked about how
46:48
anger is often
46:50
covering up fear.
46:52
And so I did
46:54
I did relate to that a lot. Yeah.
46:56
You know? I was angry because I was
46:58
fearful of your behavior or your reaction or
47:01
or the home life or how you were
47:03
gonna, you know, treat us.
47:05
So then I became defense of angry.
47:09
So I can I can
47:11
I can see it? I can... So in
47:14
justification of my overs simplification, there reason this
47:16
is, I think so important to me and
47:19
maybe nobody else in the whole world who
47:20
cares
47:21
is
47:23
it's like you can't fix the problem until
47:26
you can identify it. Mh.
47:28
And
47:29
being able to say, when I feel my
47:31
anxiety go up, 1 of the things that's
47:33
interesting about sobriety for me is I can
47:35
actually feel
47:37
anxiety. I can feel
47:39
sometimes, you know, this happens to me early
47:41
in the morning when I first waking up,
47:43
and then something pops into my head that
47:45
I'm nervous about for that day. I can
47:47
feel adrenaline. I think it's I don't know.
47:50
I could feel something surged through my body
47:52
I'm pretty sure it's adrenaline.
47:54
And so
47:55
that's an awareness that I didn't... Have back
47:57
when I was drinking, it actually surged much
48:00
worse back when I was drinking, I'd wake
48:02
up in panic attacks in the middle of
48:03
the night, but I I was too,
48:06
you know,
48:08
woven into my into and my addiction to
48:12
do any kind of self analysis like that
48:14
who But now I can feel
48:16
when anxiety is going up. I can feel
48:18
adrenaline surge. I can feel all of this
48:20
stuff.
48:21
And
48:22
what I've
48:24
recognized
48:25
as this
48:26
this thought has continued to develop in my
48:29
head is,
48:30
what a blessing it is
48:32
to
48:33
be able to say, okay, What am I
48:35
afraid of in this moment?
48:37
Instead of, okay, what's the emotion I'm feeling?
48:40
Where is it coming from,
48:42
you know, who's to blame? Is it in
48:44
the is it...
48:45
About the past? Is it...
48:47
Something I'm anticipating in the future. No. I
48:50
can go straight to...
48:52
I don't feel good right now. What am
48:53
I... What am I afraid of?
48:56
And it can be simple like I'm afraid
48:58
to reveal that the milestone is 500
49:01
survey results
49:03
because that feels significant to me, or it
49:05
can be as big as
49:07
there is
49:09
a tractor trailer out of control skin toward
49:11
me on the ice,
49:13
and,
49:14
you know, that's something
49:15
super tangible
49:17
that I need to be afraid of. Just
49:19
narrowing it down to fear makes it for
49:21
me, a lot easier to pinpoint and address
49:25
very quickly.
49:26
I mean, you... In order for this to
49:28
work, I have to... Be
49:30
willing to acknowledge my own in insecurity and
49:32
willing to acknowledge that
49:35
I can sometimes be afraid of things that
49:36
other people aren't afraid of. Yeah. Like you.
49:39
I can be afraid of
49:42
You're afraid of me? Some... Like, no. I
49:44
can be afraid of some podcast
49:47
statistic that you don't know, you know, you
49:49
wouldn't know if it's a thousand or 10000000,
49:52
and I can be afraid of precisely what
49:55
it actually is. Mh. So
49:58
you know, a big part of this for
50:00
me is
50:02
acknowledging
50:03
that I'm afraid of things, you I shouldn't
50:05
be afraid. And actually, it's helping me
50:08
to work out of that.
50:10
Acknowledging the fear and pinpoint that it is
50:13
fear
50:14
is helping me to say that's a dumb
50:16
thing to be afraid of. Let's work on
50:18
not being afraid of that anymore.
50:21
Yeah. I think lots of faces over there.
50:24
Like they're seeing say. Yeah. They're very much
50:26
thinking. If they're not... It's not like, normally
50:28
where you're like, you're a dumbass. It's not
50:30
that face. I'm familiar with that. Face.
50:34
Now I just lost my train Thought. Mh
50:37
Well, I guess, I mean, it kinda
50:39
weighs out... I know what I'm saying. When
50:41
you were talking about that,
50:44
like, kind of working through
50:46
what it is that's way worrying you and
50:49
what was making you feel that
50:52
anxiety and adrenaline rush and kinda naming it.
50:56
It makes me think of that podcast.
50:59
Was with Lori because it was talking about
51:02
naming the emotion you were having.
51:06
You know,
51:08
and
51:09
when you do put it through the lens
51:11
of fear
51:12
and all the different levels,
51:15
because a lot of words
51:17
that were on the list, and I don't
51:18
know how many of our listeners like, went
51:21
to the website to
51:23
to check it out check out the website
51:25
that was...
51:26
Where the list with the.
51:29
Yeah.
51:30
But it was... They were they were emotional
51:32
words that were all,
51:34
you know, some of them, yes. We're higher
51:37
up, like a ex ex,
51:38
Blissful.
51:39
And
51:40
And then you had, like, peaceful and calm.
51:42
Yeah. Kind of the other end of the
51:43
good side, but... Yeah. But more miles, You
51:46
know know? Exactly. Like, when we kind of
51:47
talked about that pendulum swing with that in
51:50
that call with Lori, that podcast with Laurie,
51:52
You know, the higher up and staying in
51:54
that middle
51:55
ground.
51:57
So
51:58
I, I mean... Yeah.
52:01
Because I think that there is a healthy
52:02
level of fear of things that keep us
52:04
safe if it's our
52:06
instincts or whatnot. But then when we get
52:10
2
52:12
anxiety driven and
52:15
worried about something and fearful of something.
52:18
I can see how
52:20
processing that and really working
52:23
that out? Like, what's
52:24
what's the fear that I have?
52:27
You know, you were talking about, like, what
52:29
is that fear that I'm having experiencing right
52:31
now that's making me have those different words
52:34
like, worry and concern and anger and
52:39
Yeah. Yeah.
52:40
So we talked about the
52:42
the guru,
52:43
the popular
52:46
acknowledgement that there is of
52:49
emotions and emotional intelligence. We talked about B
52:52
Brown.
52:53
We talked about,
52:55
you know,
52:56
psychologists on Instagram videos that'll
52:58
cover emotions, things like that.
53:01
So that's identifying
53:03
the emotions,
53:05
but let's close with talking about what
53:09
the popular way of addressing
53:12
and taking care of
53:14
those insecure feelings those emotions.
53:17
Everything
53:18
points toward staying in the present,
53:23
Instagram psychologists,
53:25
all the major religions,
53:27
most,
53:28
you know, big time philosophers,
53:30
going back to the beginning of recorded history,
53:33
talk about staying in the present.
53:36
Let's think about why that is.
53:38
If you're not fixated on the past,
53:43
you know,
53:44
you can't have...
53:46
You don't spend all your time being afraid
53:48
of repeating those mistakes. Or afraid of what
53:51
those mistakes have done to you
53:53
or,
53:54
you know, being afraid of how your reputation
53:57
has been damaged or how your life isn't
53:59
as full as you thought it would be
54:01
because of these things you've done in the
54:02
past fear of the things you've done in
54:04
the past.
54:05
Likewise staying in the present sense you from
54:08
looking forward with
54:09
anticipation.
54:10
And,
54:11
you know, anticipation can go either. Right? It
54:14
can be... You can be anticipating something bad
54:17
happening, or you can anticipate some kind of
54:19
joyful event.
54:22
That would be fear and fearless.
54:24
But all the
54:26
pop culture advice and pop psychology advice
54:29
and religious advice, all the major religions
54:33
stay in the present.
54:34
It's a lot harder to be afraid in
54:36
the present.
54:39
If you and I are sitting here having
54:41
this conversation, and I'm blocked in on the
54:43
conversation
54:44
because I need to concentrate to
54:47
share thoughts and to listen to your ideas.
54:50
There's not room for being afraid.
54:53
We can hit stop on the podcast, and
54:55
I can immediately go right back to worrying
54:57
about,
54:58
you know, some...
54:59
1 of the many things that I sit
55:01
around to worry about all but it's really
55:03
hard
55:04
to be afraid when I'm locked in on
55:06
the present. Does that make sense? Yeah.
55:09
Yeah. And I mean, I I feel like
55:12
the whole time we've been kind of discussing
55:14
this, like the word anxiety keeps popping up
55:17
because I think that that's such a fear
55:20
based and fear driven.
55:24
I don't wanna call it a feeling.
55:28
I don't... What do you call? I mean,
55:30
I'm trying to I mean, anxiety is certainly
55:32
a part of the nervous system. Yeah. So
55:34
III
55:35
mean, I'm trying to think of the word
55:36
and I can't think of the word right
55:37
now. Not emotion?
55:39
No because I think it's more than an
55:40
emotion. I think it's an action that's a...
55:42
It's a nervous system thing. It, like... Yeah.
55:45
There's there's hormones that are being released on
55:47
body.
55:49
Yeah. It's
55:50
how much of that is is,
55:52
you know, and that's the some of that
55:55
advice
55:55
for people with
55:57
anxiety is, like, trying to... Stay in the
55:59
press day on the present and and get
56:01
your kind of, like, calming, like, learning those
56:03
calming techniques if you don't have to be
56:05
on medication for unless you are actively presently
56:09
swimming with sharks,
56:10
it is hard
56:11
to be afraid in the present for the
56:14
majority of most of our days.
56:16
There are certainly bad things that happen and
56:18
in real time in the present, you can
56:21
be terrified.
56:22
But you know it's hard to get locked
56:24
in and stay in
56:26
terror. Mh.
56:28
When you're in the present.
56:30
So
56:32
Yeah. And then when all of this advice
56:34
to handling
56:36
of all the emotions, and all of this
56:38
advice to to keeping your nervous system regulated.
56:41
I think it's all really important and it's
56:43
really act accurate. I just think
56:47
it maybe, you know, I again, just at
56:49
the
56:50
risk of overs simplifying, which is my favorite
56:52
thing to do
56:53
is just about staying away from fear. And
56:56
the reason this this kind after this,
57:01
you know, considering this is so important is
57:04
because
57:05
because of the degree to which beer drives
57:08
the 2 scary things for people
57:11
dealing with alcoholism, whether they're the drinker
57:14
or the loved 1. Or the former drinker
57:16
and the loved 1.
57:19
Fear can drive relapse,
57:22
and and continued alcohol and fear can drive
57:26
getting stuck in nervous system activation and both
57:29
of those things
57:31
are serious threats
57:33
to your ability to survive. Mh.
57:36
And so
57:38
recognizing fear and then doing things to combat
57:40
the fear. And like Laurie said, back on
57:42
episode 02:48,
57:45
identifying it, you know, acknowledging it, putting a
57:47
finger on it
57:49
is more than half of the battle.
57:51
So when I sit and think, god, I
57:53
am worked up right now. What is going
57:55
on, I don't have to start from,
57:58
you know, what are of the many millions
58:00
of things that could possibly be bothering me
58:02
is this? And is it,
58:04
you know, what what is the emotion? I
58:06
can start with, okay. What am I afraid
58:09
of.
58:10
And for me,
58:11
it just seems a lot easier to get
58:13
to the answer
58:14
when the question is when Afraid of as
58:16
opposed to what am I feeling?
58:18
It's more specific. Mh.
58:21
Yeah? Yeah.
58:23
I think there's a chance there's something here?
58:25
Yeah. I think there's something here. K. I'm
58:28
not just
58:30
over here thinking about things. To.
58:32
I mean, because I...
58:34
It's kinda funny that you've put the word
58:36
fear in and 1 of the practices that
58:40
what I was really kinda working on anger
58:42
was, what am I angry with? Because we
58:44
have words, like, frustrated.
58:46
Annoyed,
58:47
angry,
58:48
upset
58:50
all these words. Murderous.
58:52
I, I don't think I've ever used that
58:54
1. But. Okay.
58:56
That kind of represent,
58:59
you know, anger and because we don't want
59:01
anger. Right? We that's kind of a bad
59:03
negative
59:04
kind...
59:05
It's supposed to be. I mean, You know,
59:07
always was. We're learning that. Now it's not.
59:09
But but, you know, and then when I
59:12
found out that
59:13
fear was a driving factor behind the anger.
59:17
So it's kind funny that you're, like, 1AM
59:18
I afraid. 1AM my fearful love right now
59:20
and you're walking through. I often have to
59:22
say, why am I so pissed off? Why
59:25
am I so angry? About this. What is
59:27
annoying me about
59:29
the situation? So I'm gonna I'm gonna try
59:32
that over the next few weeks, Like, put
59:34
it through the filter lens and use a
59:36
word of what am I... What is making
59:38
me fearful of that?
59:40
You know, I may have to say. Why
59:41
am I angry about it? What's what's the
59:43
fear?
59:44
Driving the anger? Yeah. That's great. And.
59:47
See how it goes. Yeah.
59:50
Please report back. There's a new person
59:52
starting at my job.
59:55
And since I am afraid of change and
59:58
fearful of change.
59:59
I... I'm gonna really try to pay attention
1:00:01
these next few weeks,
1:00:03
seeing if
1:00:04
if how I feel about things and how
1:00:06
I react and respond to maybe some changes
1:00:09
that are happening. And so rather than think
1:00:11
of think of this person makes me angry
1:00:13
and why did they make me angry? You're
1:00:15
gonna think what am I afraid of about
1:00:17
the way this person?
1:00:19
Yeah. I mean... And why is the change
1:00:21
making me fearful? I've been doing that only
1:00:24
just recently, I've started to have this kind
1:00:27
theory and thought, but I've been doing the
1:00:30
same thing, Sherry,
1:00:31
like, not why is this person pissing me
1:00:34
off.
1:00:34
But what am I afraid of about what
1:00:36
this person's doing?
1:00:37
I afraid that they're taking control in an
1:00:40
area where I think I deserve to have
1:00:42
control? Mh.
1:00:44
Am I afraid that they're gonna do it
1:00:45
so differently for me that it's gonna make
1:00:48
my life harder?
1:00:50
Or am I just being, you know, stubborn?
1:00:52
It's it's it has helped me. Mh.
1:00:56
I'm curious. Are you afraid that I'm never
1:00:59
gonna stop talking. Oh, I fear that every
1:01:01
day
1:01:03
every day. Well, I'm glad I was able
1:01:05
to
1:01:06
identify 1 of your biggest peers.
1:01:10
Before you go, we hope you'll consider these
1:01:12
3 resources.
1:01:13
If you love or loved an Alcoholic. We
1:01:16
offer support and connection in our echoes of
1:01:18
recovery group. Check us out at echoes of
1:01:20
recovery dot org. If you are a high
1:01:23
functioning alcohol, like seeking methods and connection in
1:01:26
early sobriety.
1:01:27
We're ready for you at shout sobriety dot
1:01:29
org. No matter who you are. There's something
1:01:32
for you in our book. Sober revolution, evolve
1:01:35
into sobriety and recover your alcoholic marriage. Go
1:01:38
to sober revolution dot org. For my wife
1:01:41
Sherry Sal, I'm Matt Sal. Thanks for listening
1:01:44
to the intoxicated podcast.
1:01:46
I