Latest / Ready To Drink Podcast / Hemp Beverages Are the Trojan Horse for Normalization | Dan Serard, Cannabis Creative Group

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Hemp Beverages Are the Trojan Horse for Normalization | Dan Serard, Cannabis Creative Group · Ready To Drink Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dan Serrard.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Chief Revenue Officer at Cannabis Creative Group.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect, man.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, give me uh give me kind of a flyover on what you guys do and then how long you guys have been established in the industry, and then we'll jump right into the meat of it all.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sounds good.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Cannabis Creative Group is a full service marketing agency.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a full creative shop, uh web development group, and digital marketing services.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that includes advertising, email marketing, CEO, and social media.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're an in-house team, so we have about 35 full-time people on staff and have been working in the cannabis industry now for a little over eight years.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm the chief revenue officer over at Cannabis Creative Group and have been here for eight years.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, man.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: When uh were you so you were there right when the business got started?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh we have a parent agency called Champ Digital that we have worked in many different industries, alcohol being one of them.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're familiar with like Master of Mixes or ABM Alcohol Beverage Manufacturers, uh, we've worked a lot in travel and tourism, CPG, snack foods, like wild brands, lesser evil.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we had a couple cannabis clients in 2016-2017, manufacturer in Massachusetts and a dispensary up in Maine.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: We uh, well, the CEO Seth Warby decided that because cannabis was about to go legal in Massachusetts in 2018, um, it was a niche vertical, and uh he is a consumer himself, medical patient, uh, to spin off of Cannabis Creator Group as a sub-brand of the agency.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they hired me to run the division.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, you know, we've worked with 600 different brands.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've grown the agency from about 10 people back in 2017-2018 to about 35, and uh it's history since then.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, man.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh prior to that, were you working for Champ prior to that on the bigger scale?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I wasn't.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have a health and wellness background.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I managed a couple health clubs in Santa Monica in Boston.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I worked for a biotech uh startup, and then I launched a few uh supplements in Santa Monica, helped help launch a couple supplements in Santa Monica.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: One was a nootropic, uh, and then one was a daily vitamin.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So how long?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So how many years on all that stuff?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh health and wellness, probably what, since 2013, 2014.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh I've been working in health and wellness as a whole that's considered cannabis as health and wellness for what uh a little over a decade now.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, so yeah, you're definitely so you're seeing how those all those categories are emerging now and it's all becoming this perfect storm, yeah, for sure, of a of a brand new uh category coming out of it, yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, functional beverages, right?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's uh, you know, when when I worked out in Santa Monica and there was a nootropic that we were working on, it had, you know, caffeine, L-theanine, carnine, you know, B vitamins 12, 6, et cetera, et cetera.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was ahead of its time, but it was a phenomenal functional beverage for for gamers, for athletes, really, really tailored on focus, not as much, well, provided a lot of energy, but it was more cognitive functioning and focus, which I think we're seeing a lot of now.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I agree.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: What up, what types are you you based in Boston?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right outside of Boston.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what are you kind of what do you see in this moment right now?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna give context that because every day is different when we release these.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is July 16th.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody that's following all the craziness, you know, like to see the context of this conversation.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Are you seeing people investing more into the marketing and story-based presence of their brands right now?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you seeing like kind of uh, and I'm not trying to speak negatively, but people kind of keeping onto their money and trying to ride this out for the next three to four months kind of thing?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do see a lot of people trying to kind of ride it out, see what's going on with you know, the hemp bill and and everything that's gonna, you know, unravel in November.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had a lot, I I talk to a lot of people in the hemp space every day.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would say from a standpoint of who is holding on to their money and seeing, you know, what happens is some of the smaller businesses, the startups that, you know, maybe let's call it one to three years old, probably doing less than a million in revenue from D to C.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they're not necessarily as plugged into politics as some of the others.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: But also on the flip side, I've worked with companies that have, you know, 36 locations in the hemp retail space, and they're like, we're good, we're full steam ahead, and we need to move products.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very interesting.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: From my standpoint, I if I had a crystal ball, I I think there would I think there's going to be some shuffling and some more testing that's involved, but I don't see the hemp industry going away totally from interstate commerce and you know, allow for online sales and retail sales.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't see that going away.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think there'll be some restructuring.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest the biggest advice that I would give out to anybody listening and watching is I agree with you 100%.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just put out an article earlier this week uh putting some stats on all the different bills as far as the odds in which I think they're gonna pass.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I really think it's a coin flip right now, but I do think the baseline is I don't see the ban happening.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I see the worst case scenario is a two-year extension on the on the extension of the ban to let everything work it out.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: The problem I see, and the one thing I want for myself and the service out of it as well as yourself, we need to be over the next three, four months, getting people to realistically accept that and then begin to build the parallel path.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the thing that nobody was really expecting, because this is not linear.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if anybody is like rolling their eyes as they're listening or watching, welcome to the beverage industry where nothing is linear.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I know, and I know everything in the cannabis has their own stories and the wrecks in medical, but I've been two decades into the beverage world, and I can tell you that this is not abnormal.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: A ban is abnormal, but constantly seeing advocacy needs and law changes and things like that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of these guys, uh, and I'm gonna pick on some, they'll they'll make comments to me like, oh, I just want the federal to pass.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done with all this state-by-state stuff.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you guys do understand how alcohol is sold in the United States, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Alcohol is federally legal, but every single state is done in such complexities in a different way.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some are similar and some are completely different, and some are their own anomalies in themselves.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the more we gear in the service side, these brands and these founders to understand that this is the first of many obstacles that they will be seeing.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because when we talk about the litigation that comes out of whichever path comes out, even if they extend it into like a gray area, that that could cause litigation as well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think the one thing we don't talk about enough, and I think a lot of guys don't realize, is these distributors are federally compliant.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: So even if the ban is extended, these distributors may start another LLC, they may start another business to operate under it.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And some that are four, third generation family-owned legacies are still gonna not want to play in this until there's a concrete federal law in place for that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that two years, even if they do extend it a year or two, is not gonna be the golden breath of fresh air that people are looking for.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're just gonna be operating exactly like we are today, just without that crazy, crazy band over our head.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: But that shot clock is still there.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's and and it's still ticking.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that is business as usual for another two years, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with adjustments you need to think of and make, and you know, depending on what happens at, you know, in Congress and stuff like that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I agree, some of these, you know, federal distribution networks that are operated federally, like, they can't plan that yet.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, and yeah, it's not even their personal opinions because they all tell me behind closed doors, they're like, I'm on board, but I just need yeah, like they're like, I can't jeopardize my great-grandfather's business and all I'm 400 employees fail lively.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what that's the gravity to understand when they make these decisions.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're not being dicks because they're distributors, because that's the easy thing to say.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, they're protecting their family and the hundreds and sometimes thousands of families that that need that job, you know?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they don't want that shut down.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kind of let's pivot a little bit to what you guys do.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's kind of we'll get out of that part.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that gets talked to talked to them.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think there's a there's a gray cloud that comes over me if I spend more than five minutes on it on these episodes.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So uh before the rain and the thunder starts, we'll kind of go through, kind of talk a little bit about your guys's, I don't want to use the word unique selling properties or anything like that, but like what do you guys do?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a couple different brands, but everybody has to operate in this space a little differently because there's a lot of navigation that happens.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you guys do differently to give attention to your brands to roll out their stories?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'll take it back from the beginning and we'll start with launching a brand and helping someone who has a concept, maybe a formula for a beverage, and you know, they want to get into the space.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because then we can go into like marketing and advertising and all that stuff down the road, but let's let's step back.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when when we work with a company, the first thing we do is a huge a massive intake process, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Who you are, what you do, what you're trying to be, who you're trying to target, where you're trying to target, uh the positioning, how you want people to feel, how your product you know makes people feel.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so much intake that goes in before we start spitting out a logo or color palettes or any of that, where we're starting with the messaging and the audience and the persona and how to successfully be in the market, right?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Where a lot of people come to us and they're like, hey, I have a hemp beverage, it's five milligrams THC and 10 milligrams C B D.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's good for everybody, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: General wellness.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lemonade, it's a seltzer.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Dead in the water, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: That that's what I'll say is like that's great and that's a great goal to have, but you get to start somewhere.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, just like any business, you get to prove some success somewhere.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a beverage for a 50 plus community who is, you know, exploring cannabis again, but they don't want to smoke and they like the feeling of you know, that euphoric feeling, and they have strained names like Panama Gold and all this stuff when they were smoking weed that they resonate with, right?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's an experience for them and it's it brings them back to a time and place and a feeling that they've had once before.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great starting point versus hey, I have a THC seltzer and it gets people kind of high, but not really, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to pull that out of the owner.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't know and they're like, literally, I don't know, I just have a formula based on my contacts.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, let's create that story.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have rock stars on our team, brand strategists, art directors, the executives that we worked with who have done this for years and years and years inside and outside cannabis, so we can kind of mold that story for them or with them.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So then we developed the brand toolkit, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: We like to call it a toolkit, and I'll give a huge shout out to Noah, who's our art director.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is, you know, we don't just do a logo and colors.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: We really think of your brand as a toolkit.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you need a hammer, you know, or a PNG file, here's your hammer, right?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: When you need nail or a different color palette, here's your nail.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when you need a saw and different variations of your logo for social or your website, we have that an encompassing toolkit for them, and that's what we build.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not only for the visual identity piece, but for the messaging.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So your tagline, your core value proposition, your content pillars, your buyer personas.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really that full mix of everything that you need to go to market with.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of how, you know, long-winded answer there, but it's really gives you an insight into like how we work with the brand.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody comes to us and says, hey, I get a beverage that I want to create in or outside of cannabis.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys uh when you guys are navigating the uh the the algorithms, are there like I found one of the reasons I pivoted from a lot of product focused uh imagery online, I put focus mostly on the story and the human beings because I found that that would slip through the algorithm a lot better than just blatant marketing of a can or anything like that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it depends on the channel.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Each channel is different.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So meta versus programmatic and CTV versus organic social versus you know Google.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I agree.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think people buy from people, right?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so showing testimonials, showing use cases, showing lifestyle imagery, yes, you know, the some platforms like Meta are gonna show those more because Meta is social, social, social sharing, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And those type of imageries lean into that, especially with video, versus product promotion.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Meta does not like product promotion, especially in the cannabis industry, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to avoid that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, you know, other channels like programmatic and CTV, these are mature adult websites, and you know, we can target those.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So say like in ESPN.com or HBO Max, and we can run animated ads or video clips or commercials that are like, hey, 20% off your first order, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, I agree to a big extent where you want to showcase lifestyle, but there's also an area for product mix, and that's I'm glad you brought that up on the plate because I think that's a lot of time we focus so much on social, but we forget that there is a traditional foundation in and the ads on other websites and stuff.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, different websites or anything organic on your website or email marketing.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Email marketing is a huge opportunity.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: We see a ton of I'm a w I I have two uh two different lists, and it is I'm up to like 55% on my opens and stuff now.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is when you cure when you curate uh the right type of people, that's what I started seeing it going that way.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people think email is dead.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't look at my email and stuff like that, but the people do, right?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I always compare email marketing to, you know, if you're buying a new car, right?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can buy, you know, a Maserati, but if you're driving it like a Honda, then you're not using it right, right?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're buying a powerful platform like a HubSpot or a Clabio or, you know, the cannabis industry, Alpine IQ, you gotta use it correctly.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you do, you can make so much money from it.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you're just you know sending out a blast every week to your whole audience, that's just like, hey, 20% off, 20% off, 20% off.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You're driving it like a Honda.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great way to put it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I try to remind people when they're out there.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, every time I send a cold, uh, you'll laugh at this because it probably happens to you.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You'll send a cold prospect, like an email or something like that, just to kind of put your feelers out.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: You track it, you watch it, and they won't answer or they'll tell you no.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But then a week later, you'll end up on their email list.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I do is I then I'll stay in instead of opting out, and I just watch the cadences and I watch the content, and then I'll grab it all, and then I throw them an email back being like, here in the past four weeks, here's what you've done.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And first off, I didn't sign up for your email.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you unsubscribing to mine that I never saw it wasn't an email blast.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I all my stuff's one-to-one.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Even my mass stuff, I have thousands that I send out to, with the exception of my LinkedIn newsletter and Substack.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Everything else on my thousands is one to one.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a guy, I have you know, copy paste all the way through to get this out.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason I do that is I want people to know in the scale that they're at that there's a human being standing there because of the types of customers and clients that I'm targeting, is I want them to know that it's not at scale.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I used to work with MillerCors, Ann Hazard Bush.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: We ran you know$50 million,$100 million stuff.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Those were all automated and scaled and everything like that.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where that comes in.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys are doing, talk a little bit about the email for a second, because I think this is what you just said is really important that I notice in the trends because I get intentionally get dozens of these brands in my email every day and every couple days, sometimes two, three times a week.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about what it makes look, what look makes you look like desperation, because I want people to have that caution for the next three to four months, versus I'm here and I'm gonna be here in the future too.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And let's talk about how the consumer can perceive, like you just said, you're hitting my inbox every day with 20% off and two, three times a week, I might not be following you anymore.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you start to lose it, it's customer fatigue, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where they're accustomed to the same message and discounting your products and you know, restock inventory and every way to say like sales.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: That I that loses uh customers.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And not to say that you don't need to mix that in, but talk about how your product is made.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the other ingredients that are in your product?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you use a lion's made mushroom?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use ashwagonda?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use L-theanine?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like educate the consumer on the product and the experience and the effects that these other, you know, botanicals or whatever uh ingredients can give to you, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: It if you're more of a functional beverage versus hey, we're a hemp beverage and we get you high or whatever, there's a very different mix there.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it is so new in the market, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hemp beverages haven't been around for for too long in the sub-grand scheme of things.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it has to be a lot of education.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think beverages are in a very unique position in cannabis because they're the most attractive to that curious audience that's like, I know I can drink a beer, and I know that if I have, you know, two beers, I'll be okay.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if I have three or four, you know, I'll I'll feel it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's the same concept as cannabis, I can have a half a drink and stop and see how I feel, and then go from there.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a very interesting market segment or intersection where the beverage audience lies that needs to be, you know, continue to be educated.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I think more than any other cannabis products like concentrates or flower or pre-rolls, like that's the audience that you really want to target and promote the messaging to them.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's a it's a great point.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a there's an infographic that I have in my head for the past month now that I haven't released yet and I'm I just haven't made it.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh but basically I'll describe it to you is you know, breaking down the demographics of of potential consumers.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll from the next layer from there, let's go age, gender, and then from there, it's are they a habitual consumer of marijuana and in what form?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are they and if they're if they're all smokers and vapes and everything like that or gummies and they're all high tests, that's a different plane you're going for.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different imagery, that's different story base, that's different emails.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have your other tier that if you're if you really are a brand that's like, I want to be the alcohol replacement, well, guess what?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: You just chose the most expensive path because now you have to educate and sell.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I think people are not realizing that the two differences are two different budgets dramatically different.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we see a lot of people that try to play in that space with low budgets, right?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we don't have minimums in our ad spend because we work with some startups, but we recommend same here.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a strong advisory, strong recommendation, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like, hey, you can start with a thousand bucks a month and see what you're gonna get, but essentially you you're pissing into the wind in a certain type of business, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: If not done well.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, some some clients want to do that and want to test it, and we grow with them.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal is to grow with them.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: But some, you know, if you're an alcohol replacement, like if you're spending 500 bucks a month on meta ads, like don't just don't do it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, unless you're looking at one state, one market, and you're drilling the hell out of a hundred thousand people, that's the only way 500 to 1,000 bucks a month working.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, exactly.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a good concept, but like if you're like, hey, I want to, you know, going back to I'm hip drive beverage for everybody and I'm national, I can ship anywhere.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, there's some educating to be done on how marketing is done.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And those are conversations I like to have when people listen, but you know, some founders are like, no, we want to scale immediately and we get a thousand dollars.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: All right, well, I wish you the best of luck, you know.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we I I don't want to call it very picky who we work with, but as part of the process when working with us, I really take the time to present some strategy to them, see if they're on the same page as what we would recommend.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've seen this for 600 brands, so I know, you know, kind of I don't know every brand exactly what they should do, but I know what works and what doesn't work and how they should be molding their, you know, mindsets.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's important when we work with brands is that they're open to it, they have a similar path, they have a similar mindset to us and our team and how we operate and uh and can go from there.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not always all about budget, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're exactly right.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's and and the thing is, while while the algorithm can be tricky, it's the opposite too.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you are strategic from the jump when you put something in the algorithm, it can go.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I put plenty of things out that had zero dollars on it and get 20,000, 50,000 views and generate revenue and generate clicks.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're not viral anomalies or anything like that.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: They were done intentionally and they proved the results of the intention that went into the messaging and the and the presentation and everything like that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's important.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we work with a uh a hemp beverage that's uh alcohol replacement, wine replacement specifically, and we worked with them for you know some meta ads.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Great product, phenomenal.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We were very dialed in where we're working with them on state specific and audience segments.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Demographics and we started with a very small budget.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, after a month or two, they're like, I don't know if this is going to work.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I you're we're getting, you know, like a 0.8x, 1x return on ad spend.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're making our money back, but we want to make more.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we said, hold on, let's let's dial this in.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's figure, you know, optimize the campaigns.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let Meta learn who you are, because after 30 days, there's still a learning curve.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they're up, you know, 4x return on ad spend now.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're starting to make some serious money.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it it's they, you know, I can I very much appreciate them because they listened to our team.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: They gave us a chance, and they weren't just, hey, we can sell this anywhere.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I get that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have a low ad spend, so let's use your ad spend appropriately and scale from there.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's uh I brought I'm glad you brought up the other point about Meta getting to know who you are.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times we I find brands will quit after 30 to 60 days of their strategy and not realizing that Meta has its own bell curve or learning curve and ramp up period that is 30 and sometimes 60 days with these products because of the analysis that needs to occur.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's why with this show, the packages we offer, we promote the products or we promote the product, the story, the clips through our platforms with a paid ad because they're like, oh, well, why can't I just run it the clip online?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's great, and you can, but it's gonna take you a lot longer.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna cost you a lot more money.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: But our platforms are built from 10 to 15 years of of doing ad campaigns on them.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Meta is good.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I put 50 bucks down, if I put 500 bucks down, unless it's blatantly like not set to over 21 and it's blatantly a can and has a flag on or a marijuana flag on it, they're not taking it down.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's uh that that's the trickiest part is uh you know, once you get over that 90 day mark of running the ads, then you start to see the results.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: But if they can stick that stick to that, and that's why we always want to make sure you set your budgets up appropriately for your runway, right?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't just think you're gonna get a miracle go viral in month one after spending$250 and you know, ad spend.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: What on tell me about what drives you in this business?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great question.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's you know, I I created a LinkedIn post about it today, actually.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm coming up on my eight year and it's been such a roller coaster, to be honest.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the important thing for me when I look at what drives me in this business specifically is that it is such a small industry right now where we have impacted so many businesses and we know so many businesses.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're not clients of ours, but you know, me and the team have helped them out in one way, connected them with a partner, or you know, helped them with an event, or you know, sponsored one of their events that, you know, growing that industry as a whole and having a real impact on it is what kind of drives me, right?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm involved in, you know, the NCAA and the Chamber of Commerce and the NCC, and like there's no other industry I can think of right now that you can personally and as a business impact as much right now, right?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's some, there's a lot of small ones out there, but cannabis is so small and nuanced and growing that like you can have a direct impact on the way kind of things are molded.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and I truly think, you know, from us for Cannabis Creator Group, when we started out eight years ago or whatever, and you know, I'll go to Lynn and say we were the first ones to figure out Google advertising like eight years ago before any technology in cannabis, it's kind of molded the way for other groups and other companies to start, right, with different advertising platforms and ideas.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been really interesting to see.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: When you uh when you look back at the past eight years and then you look back at what's coming up in November, what is it?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take the hypothesis that the ban actually goes into effect.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: What is, do you guys are you guys already balanced with medical and recreational clients and things like that?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're not all leaned in on hemp.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, it's just repivot your prospecting and begin to balance things out into the greater industry.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh it's interesting.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're just talking about that today because our yesterday, not only the hemp is up for debate in November, is Massachusetts adult use cannabis on the ballot this year.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that uh is scary too for the industry, especially where I live in Massachusetts.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's gonna be on the ballot this year.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's the latest update.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what question it is, but between hemp and Massachusetts cannabis, yeah, we we do have a lot of clients in both of those spaces, and it would impact our business.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we're very much getting involved in both of those campaigns and seeing how we can help, seeing how we can educate, seeing how we can support our clients.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we built the website for the Stop the Repeal campaign in Massachusetts.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: We created social media templates for the campaign committee to send out to every single dispensary and operator in mass.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a unified message.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing some merch for them.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're really, really getting involved there.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where it will impact our business, and we want to make sure that doesn't happen.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we also work with medical in a bunch of different states, and we also work with ancillary businesses.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean, we'll we'll keep going, but you know, it's it's more about our clients going out of business than it is us where we want to support.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the same, same in the position here.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're in every category in adult beverage.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it'll sh it'll shift and pivot.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: But to say to say that it won't be a stalling point is is an understatement because of the amount of time that's been invested, especially in the past year or two.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And sounds like we're in the same path.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're doing state advocacy with Pennsylvania and North Carolina with the regulate don't ruin MC.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, we're doing the federal stuff as well, working with the Hemp Beverage Alliance and other ones as far as helping them get the word out.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I uh I appreciate the perspective on it, and I think one of the things can you talk a little bit about the importance of action right now?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because what you just said was perfect, and I want people to understand federal sounds like a daunting thing.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Going to the U.S.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Capitol like we've all done in the past couple months, it sounds daunting.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: But inaction is is the op.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's more daunting than than getting in the room and and speaking your story, and both from a state level as well as a federal level.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the biggest things is article I've just dropped today as well, is encouraging everybody.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you've not walked in the cat the halls of your state capitol and you own something in this industry, you're wit, you're lazy and and and you need to run to the run to the wall to the door right now.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think you know, it it it's not only starting now, but it started months ago, right?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's you gotta stay in front of the legislators, you gotta stay in front of, you know, uh everybody that you have access to, right, which is public access.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And you gotta be unified.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest piece that I'm seeing a lot of missed opportunity in and until recently is it's business is operating in a silo.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not unified messages.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's hey, we're doing this, or we tried this, but it didn't work because it was just us.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, we need to work together.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know you compete, and you know, the cannabis industry I think is notorious for competition and you know, trying to be better than their competitor and always looking at their competitors and having eyes on that, you know, which is it's just too bad.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: But now is not the time for that, right?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because hey, you know, in six months from now, you might not have a competitor, you might not have a business, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: 119 days from now.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call it days.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're down nicer than days, yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I can't believe it's almost August.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's I I have to keep reminding people because we for we think November's far away.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And when you actually drill down actual working days of legislators, you're in the less than 30 now.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is insane to think about and great to know.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um keep hammering everybody to that fall asleep right now, yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's there's a lot at stake for the cannabis industry this year, um, in not a positive way.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't see besides Virginia, any states making too much, you know, uh waves, too many waves for you know adult use.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's kind of uh there's a lot of uh concerned people out there and not a lot of positive momentum in cannabis.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what I would say is if if both of these are are you know, everything that's happening in North Carolina and Virginia and Massachusetts and hemp, if these are wins for us, it needs to be celebrated, right?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because these are these are huge, huge victories, in my opinion, that are trying to take down an industry from different groups out there.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just leave it at that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I'll I'll say I yeah, I say it all, man.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I I I work at I work with these other brands and I call them all out.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's uh you know, the dis the uh the division that's going on in the alcohol industry where certain brands are on board and certain brands are not distributors on board, and uh, and aside from our legacy compliments we gave to them earlier, there are some that just straight up just don't want it because of their own bias of their own personal consumption.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, then you have you we have the pharmaceutical industry playing its role.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I'm saying I have no problem, you know, you also have the own marital marijuana and the recreational.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I go in and lobby in my own state, and I get to, I go in just like everybody else could publicly access and see who's lobbying.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a secret.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: We all like to be like, we don't want to mention them.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just go in and look it up.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's right there and it shows you who's paying, how much, and who they're paying.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And once you look at that, then you realize where things are.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm some people will say I'm a hypocrite because I'm I'm, you know, I I go to dispensaries and I I I do support them.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I do not support selfish, greedy actions that want to suppress a category, which I'll say this as well to remind them hemp beverages are the Trojan horse to normalization in society.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: That aluminum can is the answer to all of the other problems within the greater cannabis space.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you believe that gummies and flour are going to convert that suburban mom into giving up her Chardonnay to go smoke a joint, your ass is out.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're just you're you're just you're smoking too much, if that's what you think.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's the reality that I have to drill down and and every all of us do.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because this infighting is just capitalistic greed.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great point.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very good point.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: The Trojan horse concept there.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're a thousand percent right.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um We're just afraid to talk, say it.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: People are just afraid to say it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, correct.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if you don't have that, and like kind of like what I talked about, that Kenicurious audience there, it's the same thing, right?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same exact thing.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you think uh you feel like you want to kill the 12-ounce aluminum can and you think all of a sudden people are gonna start coming in and get buzzed into a dispensary and you're gonna grow your business.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Not only that, but to I've been told behind closed doors by lawmakers I will not share on the state and federal level, they're in tune.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the reasons that is hurting the recreational is why is the lawmaker seeing them attacking the hemp stuff.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: When I I I'll tell you a great story in in Pennsylvania.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was in there with the medical marijuana guys, the MSOs, when we were presenting the hemp beverage bill, House Bill 2309.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: The lawmaker looks all of them in the eye and he goes, Years ago, you guys came to me and said you were here for the patients, and we passed this law so you could be there for the patients.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now you want to play in the recreational space and you're actively spending money to suppress another brand or another category that's come out.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, Did you lie to me a couple years ago?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: The energy that was sucked out of that room when that lawmaker asked that question to the MSOs was so I was uncomfortable.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't even at me.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, crawl, you know, like, I gotta go to the bathroom.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I was smirking at the same time under my beard, you know what I mean?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, it's true.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all play both sides, but to like to do it that way and that greedy of a way to where it's like only we can have it and nobody else.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's the part that I'm like, you're not playing in the sandbox the right way.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're not collaborating, and I'll give a comparison to alcohol.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Kraft Beer from 2008 to 2017 had a Tay Day because they collaborated and they shared best practices with each other and they joined forces to fight the big guys that were trying to kill them.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was in that fight with them.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: The spirits industry never collaborated at scale like that.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: The wine industry never collaborated at scale like that.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason that craft wineries and craft distilleries are doing what they're doing.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, RTD spirits are doing it, but guess what?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you take RTD spirits and look at the volume, it sounds like a big number, but it's surfside, it's spiked aid, it's it's not a lot of brands that are driving that revenue.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: The small craft brands, because they all work in silos, are not getting the market share that they deserve.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fair.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: That that makes a lot of sense too.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, I absolutely agree to that.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm noticing that too as I think about you know, some of my and my friends' consumption and stuff like that, right?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where where it's very siloed.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: What I would also say is, you know, on the on the hemp versus cannabis side of things, it it's really that competitiveness, right?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hemp is stealing our money and stuff like that, where no, like we need to figure out a way where it's cohesive in the future can work together as one, as a you know, cannabis and hemp industry, which makes sense for everybody.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a hey, we need this or this.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hey, we need it all.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, the Trojan horse for getting that normalization is hemp beverages.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for that to lead the way and like that's how you open up and destigmatize everything, like that's the message that needs to be be said and talked about for the future when you know, if federal legalization happens on the cannabis side, which I'm not holding my breath, but at least, you know, how does the hemp space work with you know state-regulated adult use uh cannabis as well?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's um one of the things that I learned a lot and when we were writing the bill in Pennsylvania, House Bill 2309, when we were writing it back in the fall, was seeing the MSO medical dispensaries and everything like that, and the REC guys spending so much money to kill the bill because it did include them.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they wanted they had a they'd created a separate bill that was a competing bill to fight it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, this seems silly.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was I swent with the same mentality of what we're talking about right here, where it's like, you're right, it should be a free enterprise, but it's all a customer journey that leads to the dispensary at the end, but doesn't start at the dispensary.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what we did was we tweaked the bill in January and allowed dispensaries as well as liquor retailers, as well as regular coffee shops, helped anybody that is a retailer that sells beverages and dispensaries can buy a beverage permit.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So basically leveled the playing field and said, you can have it, but not only you can have it.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that took the wind out of their sails and then ended up their bill stalled multiple two or three times in committee because of that, because it just doesn't make sense now as a standalone bill, because it's, I'm gonna be honest, it's like this is the American dream, and I'm a big original libertarian.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not this uh perverted construct that they have today.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't bother you, you don't bother me, and we all live contently in life.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I do not stand well in like exclusivities where you know Johnny's taking the basketball off the court because mom called him to go home, so nobody's gonna play, you know?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't play, I don't have time in my in my sober days now in my entrepreneurial journey of 18 years to deal with that kind of petty shit.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's very fair.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you if if I can't have it, nobody can.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like exactly.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hey, man, I appreciate you taking the time, Dan.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want to do is I want to give you one last shot here.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh calling everybody's social media handles, websites, LinkedIn.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody, uh you said you wrote an article too.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Tell them what your newsletter is and all that jazz.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate you having me on the show, Nate.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if anybody's looking to find out more or have a conversation with me, canvascreative group.com, uh, Dan Serrard on LinkedIn, very active social channels you can find on our website, and we're always looking to uh have conversations.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, man.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming on, and most importantly, I thank you for coming on without a script, without uh any questions.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want everybody to understand that Dan and I have never shared a coffee, shared a drink together.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: We never met at a brewery.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you know, it's one of those things where this is about ready to drink and it's about beverages, it's about ROI, but it's mostly about human connection.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I want everybody to remember what I say every week is the challenge is five minutes of kindness to a stranger.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: When you're walking down the street, put your phone in your pocket, look at the people walking down the street.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be creepy and smile or smirk at them.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Just casually look.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: They'll give you the invite.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: When you're at the gas station filling up your cup of coffee, look to the person next to you, filling up theirs, ask them how they're doing, shut your mouth and focus on their story.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: Focus on how their body language is telling you what to do.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: And five minutes of kindness to a stranger, 20 minutes a month.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's life in this world is very full.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: I and not everybody.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Most people, they're full.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: They got kids, they got this, they got everything they feel fulfilled.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people in this world that their life is not fulfilled.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that five minutes a week of human interaction could end up making them change different aspects of their life.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: They could want to depart this earth, and you end up showing them a little bit of kindness, and it carries them on a little bit farther till the next moment of kindness.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, Dan, thank you so much for the courage to come on.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I know people are like, oh, no big deal.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hopped on.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: I get a lot of rejections when I tell people there's no questions, there's no script.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, nope, I'm not coming on.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, great, that's my filtration system.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so I appreciate it, man.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate everything you're doing for the industry, and I appreciate the honesty that you're giving in this conversation as the shot clock's going and and people are scared.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it's time to have clarity and focus, not protectionism and scarcity.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: This has been great.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, man.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have a good rest of your day, man.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Take care, Nate.