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Can AI Replace Your Marketing Team or Just Assist It? · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Kendrick Corman.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a coach, consultant, or marketer, you know marketing is far from a perfect science.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why this show is called Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Join me and my guests as we explore how to grow your business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned along the way.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kendra Corman, and I'm really excited to be joined today by David, who is going to be talking with us all about AI and marketing and how AI can really replace people, right?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not just assist.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking forward to this conversation.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kendra.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: How you got into AI and what you've been doing with it?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've been programming since I was quite young.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I taught myself when I was probably 13 or 14.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh studied computer science university.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So always had a bit of a technical background.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then finished up uni and then went into work in finance, basically.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did sometimes use a bit of programming there, but not so much.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then TLDR, to make a long story short, I was doing e-commerce during late nights and weekends, like running up my own dropshipping stores, learning a lot about ads, paid ads during that during that period.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then started to think about, just particularly on Google, I just zero on Google for some reason.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's some things here which I think could be improved in like the whole experience and like how we can drive performance, et cetera, et cetera.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so then basically started to build tools or like little little things around how we could improve performance on Google.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously that then culminated into grass to where we are now.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you have a company that does this for a living, right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: You do you're doing, you're you're helping people manage their Google ads or releasing tools on how to do that?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so look, the story, again, has been quite uh quite the journey, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So GrowAss V1 was start started all around basically landing pages, so dynamic landing pages.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had this um electric trimmer product, right?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then if you've heard of Manscaped, they're big in the US, obviously the trimmers.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had like a small competing brand in the UK, and it was obviously a super generic product, but I found that people were coming in and buying my products from a variety of different angles, right?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody searched for armhair trimmer, someone says leg hair trimmer, whatever it was.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, what if I could match my landing page to a search intent every time?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so Grace V1 was basically all around dynamic landing pages.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it started off again as a very simple tool that you could just sign up for, super low, low-ticket offer, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the first price we ever had was$99 a month, but that was for up to$2K of ad spend.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that got some decent traction.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: We got lots of people on board, hundreds of agencies, businesses, et cetera, et cetera.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and obviously it evolved.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, we're gonna ban my land pages.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: What else can we do to improve performance in a campaign?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and about four or five months into that, we started to think about okay, what could full autonomy look like?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right, because grass was still something that people had to come in and use.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: You had to use the product to get the benefit of it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: What if you didn't have to use it?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then basically started building towards where we're at today, which is fully autonomous end-to-end campaigns where you connect a campaign once and you never ever have to log into it ever again.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because Grass will take care of scaling it, et cetera, et cetera.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that was quite the journey.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I didn't plan on doing that when I first started, just to be super clear.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was not the plan.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I didn't even think it was possible.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that's where we are.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I love how you started, right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just with personalizing landing pages.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know I have conversations all the time with clients about landing pages and really making sure that it matches.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a client that I used to do Google Ads for.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I told them I wouldn't do Google Ads for them anymore.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so they went off and hired somebody else because they weren't picking up the phone, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they weren't even answering the phone, and it was going into this automated system that didn't even have the search intent as an option.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've got an ad campaign.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: People are searching for it, clicking on an ad, calling us.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they don't get the option to even click on the thing that we're talking about, which is just, I think, crazy.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that must have just significantly increased conversions.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So just personalizing the landing page with the dynamic landing pages, what kind of increase in conversions did you see?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Depends a lot, to be honest.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Depends also if the underlying landing pages are no good, then it's kind of hard to see an uplift.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's hard to say exactly.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think typically maybe if you were converting at five, five to ten percent, maybe it goes up to 15 or 20.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that that can be significant, right?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it at this point we have so many different niches, locations like running through grass, it's hard to like say on average.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, there's definitely a strong upload.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk more about AI.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so AI has empowered you to be able to create this.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: To code grass, you're saying?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at the start, so when you first started building grass, the the the models were were nowhere near as good as coding as they are now.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think the big shift happened in December 2025 with Opus, I think Opus 4.5 came out then.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was definitely a big shift in our you know, in our developer team's productivity, that we were able to push things much quicker.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Before then, of course, yeah, sure we were using it, but it was a lot more limited.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's at a point today, I think, uh AI where like even I before it was like a poor use of my time to be writing code.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not what I should be doing.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But now it's so efficient that I do do it sometimes.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not on GRAS, obviously, I'm not gonna touch the production for that, but just other little product like little projects I'm doing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's become it's become a bit of a game changer, I think.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: I remember seeing the change, right?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, it's just they've been the models have been getting better, better, and better.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I created a landing page for a client using Claude uh and recently.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And my husband goes, That's the best looking page they've got on their entire website.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it just it's so good.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about AI truly replacing people, because a lot of what I say is that AI is a co-pilot, not autopilot.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you've been seeing different.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: How are you seeing it actually replace people?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: My styles on this has changed, by the way.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: On the beat.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think before I was definitely like, yeah, replace, replace, but not necessarily.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll give you some context, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when full autonomy came out for us, uh, which was 1st of January this year, when we genuinely released it to everybody.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And up until uh Saturday, up until two days ago, Grice was fully self-served.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we accepted anyone in the world to sign up.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've now closed that off.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I can go into that as to why in a second, but we now are just you have to like apply now to right because otherwise it's another story.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I was of the mind, yeah, like for sure, like no humans needed to run Google Ads campaigns, etc.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely not true.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because ultimately strategy, uh, the relationship aspect, all these things matter a lot, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna build a successful business.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: What I do think it probably does replace now, like definitely, I think, at the point though, is the day-to-day execution work of making sure a campaign is in a good spot and scaling, et cetera.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, something super basic, like adding native keywords.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, AI can definitely do that better now.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like 24-7, add more, whatever, whatever.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe analyzing when to pause a certain ad, it can ingest more data points.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the execution work daily that Progress is running, where it's like, yeah, it's doing better than our own human account managers could, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then when it comes to understanding a business, understanding strategy, putting together a plan, let's say we used to these five campaigns this month and maybe next month.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think AI is there.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: It can it can help.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: It can help, but I think what a human is still needed in the loop for sure.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the your new change in perspective.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So talk to me first about what you mentioned before.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: You were accepting every anybody and everybody, and now you're not.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: What changed that?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Changed that oof, a lot of lessons learned.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was definitely, I mean, it was really important to do that because it basically fed our models even more.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, like grass in May is better than grass in April, which is better than so okay.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's the good side.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: The bad side is when you accept everybody, you can't help out everybody, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when you have a gas station owner in Missouri spending$500 a month on Google Ads and they want you to scale them to the moon, there's limited amounts that you, me, AI can do to actually achieve that goal, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's tough, right?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think unfortunately what self-surf did is sure, we grew exceptionally quickly, like doubling my MRR every single month, month on month, month, which is great, but it led to uh, especially for the team, like too much, too much to handle.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're sort of being a bit more careful about who we who we work with.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the first thing at a business level.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: What we did see though, so the other thing is there's two types of customers now that use grasses.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: One is businesses, and no, there's agencies.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Agencies who are plugging their end customers into grass and not telling them a word.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: What we found is agency customers are the best.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: We love them.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we really, really love them because they get it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: They never leave, like they just don't churn because they have people to run Google Ads for and they're like, oh, this is this is actually really cool.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we've also done for that is we've we've changed up our model.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're now doing free trials.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, like that's now our next big push is working with agencies because what we found just looking at our data set is they are incredible to work with.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And also they require a lot less support, right?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: A business, we have to really get involved, set up conversion tracking, do the creatives, like do a lot of different things.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: For an agency, they just plug their client accounts and then sort of chill and it sort of leave us alone and everyone's happy.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that's like the big shift that's occurred quite recently, uh, that we've put in place.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, so let's go back to the human in the loop and your change on perspective.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Was there something that changed for you that let you see, okay, nope, we need people?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look, I'll give you, I'll give you a bit more context, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when back when Grace was like self-served, first of Jan had this fill autonomy.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Before then, it was still self-served, but it was a tool.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you had to come in and actually use it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: After that, we made clear like, please like don't have to use this, you can configure some things, but ideally, it's sort of hands-off.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: What we found is that uh everyone who signed up who refused an onboarding call, so we should have made it mandatory, we weren't, and that's that's my fault.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if you refuse an onboarding call, eventually they were gonna check.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what we found in those cases is uh that's because they were coming in with accounts that were a complete mess.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Conversion tracking wasn't set up, or they connected, they connected a campaign that had one ad group with 200 broad match keywords in it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's not much grass or anyone can do until like the underlying structure was fixed.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So then we realized, okay, like assuming the loop is super important for that first step.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: We need to come in and actually fix what's going on.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And AI can't really do that, not fully autonomously.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It needs context on the business, on their goals, on like a lot of different things.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that fix can take a while sometimes, by the way.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that fix takes two, three weeks, and you have to like go through it slowly.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like you can't just like rip the bandit off sometimes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what that's that's why we found that human loop is still absolutely crucial, very important.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And also there's the relationship aspect, which is another, another thing entirely, which is also super, super important in this game.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's our learning space, okay.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I love that because I'm always telling people there needs to be a human in the loop.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: You can't, you know, just automate everything into oblivion, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there is a ton that you can do.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, you're talking about your developers, you're talking about yourself.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, without AI, how big do you think your team would have to be to do what you do?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: The development team would have to be much, much, much, much bigger.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Probably need at least 10 engineers at least.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we can do with a lot less fracture of that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Also, each engineer is some are much more efficient with AI, some are less.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: You got like that's now a new skill I'm looking for when I'm hiring engineers.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: How much, how many agents can you spin up concurrently?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: There is a breaking point.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like past 10, you're maybe doing too much.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and like there's too much chaos going on.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think can you work with five agents simultaneously working on like on a code base, context switch 24-7?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like the now the new skill is software development.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not uh, can you like reverse a linked list, like all these old interview questions that people used to do for software engineers?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's gone.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's now how many different ages can you spin up and how can you orchestrate those agents?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So the short answer is yes, we can do a lot more with a lot less.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and but same for everyone, right?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: That just means that it's much more compared with now.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have to move even quicker than before.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it definitely means we have to move a lot quicker than before, for sure.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely moving a lot quicker.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so a lot of people, well, not a lot, but some people I've talked to that have used like AI agents and have been using AI to do different things, they've been finding that they don't fully understand what's behind it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when you're working with people and they're leveraging AI, do you are they fully understanding what's behind it?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that one of the skills that people are going to need here in the future?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are you saying customers not understanding what's behind it?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or well, I'm just saying, like, I know somebody that built an agent and he has no idea really what's behind that agent.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so, and so I think that it's some of the things are missing, some of those foundations, right?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're talking about that strategy, that understanding the business and all of those pieces.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of people are leaning towards the fact that a lot of that foundation isn't necessary anymore.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not true.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's extremely necessary.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, even just for like all the campaigns you should watch, we feed in a a lot of context around the offer, the business, the brand.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Without that, uh, even if you just look at raw metrics, that's sometimes not enough.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can look at a keyword, for example.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a keyword is pulling badly, but it's actually super essential to business.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: You only had a couple bad days.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't feed in that context of the business that actually this is super important, you might have an agent just go and pause it or delete it and you don't want that.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say it's extremely important.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the work we do is about how can we compress as much business context as humanly possible into our system for it to perform optimally.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Without that, even if you're just looking at raw numbers, raw metrics, it wouldn't be enough.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, again, I'm I'm loving this.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm loving your perspective on how this is all going together, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's all this hype and all this talk around the fact that AI is going to get rid of all these jobs and um higher education isn't needed anymore, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because um AI is gonna do all of it for you.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't have that foundational knowledge, that financial knowledge, the experience that you had in e-commerce when you were starting that up, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And doing those dropships, you're missing a huge component of what the AI needs and how you can help manage that.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if someone's looking to get started in marketing or starting an agency or looking, what type of advice do you have for them when they're looking at AI?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: What skills are you suggesting that they develop?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's twofold, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: One is almost you need like the basic marketing knowledge, otherwise you're flying completely blind.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the other is I think you should like experiment with building your own stuff, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do it?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're trying to build something like full stack, you'll quickly see how hard it is to do.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's very hard.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's worth trying.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're like maybe you can automate certain things, like doing just negative keywords in the Google Ads, for example.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's relatively easy to build.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you should be able to do that.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if you're trying to build something end-to-end that runs your campaigns for your sounds like, that's a much, much harder problem to solve.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then you probably need to do custom train models, et cetera, et cetera.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to marketing, I don't know.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think I learn a lot doing dropshipping, funnily enough.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, genuinely, I learned a lot of online business skills just doing.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have to like be good everywhere.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you need to have good copy, good landing pages, good ads.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Teaches you a lot of different things.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's also brutally competitive.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like in 2026, the margins are small compared to whatever, 2019, 2018.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned a lot just by doing that business model.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've done other businesses in the past, but dropshipping, I think, is the one that taught me the most.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So is it it did dropshipping teach you the most just because of the wealth of skills?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the range of skills that were needed, or the just the type of copy?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the skills.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's also how like you have to do like product research, landing page design, be on top of your financials.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like there's so many different things.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like the end-to-end.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like I said, it's very competitive today.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if you if you're gonna make a profit, you have to be good.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be doing something right, uh, particularly on the ad creators.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, at least for me, it was it was super, super beneficial.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd recommend anyone just if you want to just you can get started for not a lot of money, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a no-money down in theory sort of business.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think it's super beneficial.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been an amazing conversation.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love how your perspective has changed, how your business model has changed, and that you were so open and willing to share that with us.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I really do appreciate it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, before I let you go, though, I do have to ask you the question that I ask all of my guests, and that is that this show is called Imperfect Marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's been your biggest marketing lesson learned along the way?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's been a lot, especially in the past year.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's very important to nail, maybe it's been said before, but at least for me, nail your ideal customer profile, nail it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, get very specific on that.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can't please everybody.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Regardless of what your offer is, whatever it is, you can't and you shouldn't, especially at the start.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's right, it's even more important than the start.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Nail that and go only after that.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're gonna have a much better time.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be able to get better results for people, better results for yourself.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, that would be mine.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that one because I'm always telling people they have to understand their audience before anything else.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this thing that people like to skip a lot, which is a little bit annoying.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is so, so important.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were going about understanding your customer, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've identified now that agencies are your sweet spot, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Low maintenance and uh benefit from the tool, and they're not going anywhere.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um, how did you find more about them to find how to market to them?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it the funny thing is it the whole agency angle came about by complete accident.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I uh initially I was like, oh yeah, like we're gonna be our own agency, we're not gonna sell this to anybody else.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then we had a lot of issues like knocking on our door saying, please, like let us try this, let us do this.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then finding out that they were actually great, great to work with, also.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: They also gave us incredible feedback uh because they really know what they're doing with Google ads as well.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it happened really by accident.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: At the start, it was just like, we're gonna do this, be our own sort of agency, compete with others, and then realize that actually, no, that they are very good customers to have.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, bit of an accident, to be honest.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bit of an accident.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the feedback that you're getting is allowing you to see what they're benefiting from and how that's working, and then working with um direct with customers too is also helping you feed that in more to understanding who they are and what they're what they're working on.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: But the the feedback we get from agency is like 10 times better than that for a business.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, it's been uh very grateful.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Very grateful, that's all I can say.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's so great.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your time today.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you all learned some things.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know I did.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you did learn some things wherever you're listening or watching, it would help me out if you would rate and subscribe wherever you are.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you would like to connect with our guest here today, please see anything in the show notes.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have contact information there.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, have a great rest of your day.