Latest / Connect To Market / You Can't Connect to the Market Without Knowing Why: Suresh Balasubramanian - Episode # 68

Transcript

You Can't Connect to the Market Without Knowing Why: Suresh Balasubramanian - Episode # 68 · Connect To Market

• 0:00
  the number one thing you wanna do to connect to the market is back
• 0:04
  to your first principles and, and really think about the why.
• 0:07
  Like, why do you want to connect to the market?
• 0:12
  Welcome to Connect to Market.
• 0:13
  I'm Casey Cheshire.
• 0:15
  Join the conversation with the marketing leaders driving the
• 0:17
  fastest growing B2B brands.
• 0:20
  We're sponsored by Ringmaster, building B2B podcasts and communities
• 0:24
  to reconnect you with your audience
• 0:28
  All right, here we go.
• 0:29
  We are launching this thing.
• 0:31
  This rocket is taking off, and I can't wait to introduce my guest today.
• 0:36
  He's awesome.
• 0:37
  I just gotta tell you, I, I do- I don't even know why he's talking to me, but
• 0:41
  I can't wait to learn so much from him.
• 0:43
  I feel like the learning and balance going on here for everyone listening,
• 0:47
  and myself included, I think we're all just gonna benefit so well.
• 0:50
  But let me tell you about who he is.
• 0:51
  He is a seasoned 5X CMO, maybe by the time this airs, maybe six or seven.
• 0:57
  Who even knows?
• 0:58
  He, he has experience, marketing thought leader and leader, CTM member.
• 1:04
  You might have seen him in a breakout session, might, might have swapped some
• 1:07
  ideas or shared some thoughts with him.
• 1:09
  He's been a startup CEO at least twice, and, and that's really
• 1:14
  helped shape his thinking about marketing leadership, strategy,
• 1:18
  P&L, owner first kind of mentality.
• 1:21
  We're gonna get into that.
• 1:22
  It definitely helps, um, come budgeting season coming up around the corner.
• 1:26
  He has scaled revenues from 25 million to 500 million across multiple organizations.
• 1:31
  What is that like?
• 1:32
  We'll dig into it.
• 1:33
  GTM advisor for Storm Ventures, CMO at Qualio
• 1:38
  suresh Balasubramanian, welcome to the show.
• 1:42
  Thank you for that warm welcome and those kind words.
• 1:45
  Uh, I kept looking over my shoulder to see who you were talking about, so
• 1:50
  Yeah, there's actually a, there's a more seasoned CEO behind you.
• 1:53
  I just… Bring, bring him up to the microphone.
• 1:56
  Yeah.
• 1:57
  Uh, yeah, it's a pleasure to be here.
• 1:59
  I'm really, uh, looking forward to the conversation and, uh, yeah, enjoyed
• 2:03
  our, um, uh, that monthly, um, podcast that we were doing a, a few weeks back.
• 2:08
  So yeah, thank you.
• 2:09
  Glad to be
• 2:10
  Yeah, it was great to have you.
• 2:11
  That was the, uh, for those listening, we have a, a
• 2:13
  roundtable for marketing leaders.
• 2:15
  We hop on a Zoom, we kick out all the note takers, and we have just real
• 2:19
  conversations about, you know, what marketing needs to do these days.
• 2:22
  So yeah, it was great having you in there.
• 2:24
  And so now I get a chance to just one-on-one with you, just crack open
• 2:28
  that head and learn from your brains.
• 2:30
  You know, I just get to learn from you today.
• 2:31
  So in order to ask you the first question though, I need to elicit the help
• 2:36
  of this giant blue foam finger here.
• 2:39
  And I need to ask you Sir, Sir Raj, what is the number one thing
• 2:44
  that marketers need to do in order to connect to the market?
• 2:48
  Yeah, it's a great question and a great way to start our conversation.
• 2:51
  And, uh, you know, I, I would say that nowadays, uh, connecting to the market
• 2:56
  is, is really sort of the, almost like the tale of two cities, right?
• 3:00
  In that you have an embarrassment of riches in terms of the kind of
• 3:04
  signals that you can gather through automation, through technology,
• 3:09
  you know, just from, from sort of putting your listening ears on.
• 3:12
  And at the same time, it gets really hard to sift the, uh, the, the real
• 3:17
  signal from the noise, if you will.
• 3:18
  And so for marketers who are listening today, I would say the number one
• 3:22
  thing you wanna do to connect to the market is back to your first principles
• 3:26
  and, and really think about the why.
• 3:29
  Like, why do you want to connect to the market?
• 3:31
  Who do you want to listen to?
• 3:32
  Be very clear about the kind of folks, either they are influencers
• 3:38
  or buyers or operators or users.
• 3:41
  Be very, very explicit in terms of who you wanna listen to, uh, why do you
• 3:46
  wanna listen, because a lot of times you get so enamored by the technology, the
• 3:51
  listening technology itself, we forget.
• 3:53
  Uh, so I would say the number one thing, um, a, a marketer should do is, is have
• 3:58
  exceptional clarity, especially these days, around, um, why are they listening?
• 4:04
  Who do they wanna listen to?
• 4:05
  What are they listening for?
• 4:07
  Uh, and the tools and technology and other things will just help
• 4:10
  you do your job better, but it's really kind of that clarity.
• 4:14
  It, it, it's sort of, you know, uh, being very, very ruthlessly clear
• 4:17
  about, um, of, of why you wanna listen.
• 4:20
  So I would say, you know, it's, it's back to first principles in many ways,
• 4:24
  but just, you know, we, we just get to do things much faster and much better.
• 4:27
  That's, that's the secret today, so.
• 4:29
  I love that.
• 4:30
  Any-- Hey, you get my attention talking about, you know, bringing things back
• 4:34
  to first principles, just boiling it down, getting to the, the heart of it,
• 4:39
  and poof, man, the idea of starting with why, who, what, and not starting
• 4:47
  with, "I got this cool tool that some AE sold me that blew my mind on the demo,
• 4:54
  and I haven't even implemented it yet, but that's gonna shape my strategy."
• 4:58
  Why do we, we fall into these traps where our strategy is, like,
• 5:02
  shaped by the, the tools we have?
• 5:04
  Yeah.
• 5:05
  Yeah.
• 5:05
  It's, it's true 'cause it's, it's the easy button, right?
• 5:08
  It's the easy path, and it's the shiny new thing that could
• 5:10
  be an interesting distraction.
• 5:11
  And I'm not saying everybody's like that, but sometimes, you know, the,
• 5:14
  the right things to do are actually the hardest things to do, right?
• 5:17
  Because you, you, you may not have clarity, or you may have defined something
• 5:22
  that the, the overall strategy might have changed or, or you, you're given a mandate
• 5:26
  that you're not quite sure how to do it.
• 5:28
  So sometimes it's, it's the easy button, the ver- the vendor
• 5:31
  tries to shape your strategy.
• 5:32
  But yeah, I would highly recommend that go back to that first principle, uh,
• 5:37
  and really start with the why because a lot of the other things, um, can, can
• 5:41
  follow from the why, but, but really, you know, don't forget the why, right?
• 5:45
  It's like, like if you're doing an activity, a listening activity, if
• 5:49
  you're connecting to the market, uh, be brutally honest with yourself
• 5:52
  in terms of why am I doing this?
• 5:53
  Uh, and then that'll help declutter a lot of the things and make it
• 5:58
  super simple to then put the rest of the things in place, right?
• 6:01
  'Cause you start with the end in mind.
• 6:03
  You're like, "Okay.
• 6:03
  Well, I'm, I'm gonna listen because not clear where, um, I'm gonna find my next 20
• 6:10
  buyers." Well, if, if your why is I gotta find my next 20 buyers, that's a much
• 6:15
  better starting point than just saying, "I gotta listen to the market," or, "I
• 6:18
  gotta connect to the market," right?
• 6:19
  So I think that's, that's the way to put it in practice is really
• 6:22
  write down the question in words.
• 6:26
  use AI to write the question down, but write down the question and
• 6:30
  that'll, that'll really help you, start putting the right things in place.
• 6:34
  So
• 6:36
  Yeah.
• 6:36
  Beware of, uh, a SaaS app that has a ready-made strategy that you can just
• 6:44
  absorb into your own and make it your own.
• 6:46
  That's… Yeah.
• 6:48
  Um, I-- You know what?
• 6:50
  It's such interesting… Y-you can tell it's, it's like this first principle
• 6:54
  thinking because it makes me pause because, you know, we've had a lot of
• 6:57
  podcast episodes and different people say different things, and there's
• 7:02
  only a coup- there's a couple where we're not even answering the question.
• 7:07
  We're saying befo- "Okay, you wanna connect to the market?
• 7:09
  Cool.
• 7:10
  But hold on, before you even try to do that, like, why?
• 7:14
  Why do you wanna, why do you wanna connect to the market?" You know?
• 7:18
  Like, "Oh, to… I need 20 more buyers." Oh, it's just some kind of intentionality.
• 7:23
  Otherwise, I, I, I kind of b- when you were describing that, I kind of
• 7:26
  visualized myself in like, you know, one of these like, you know, farmers
• 7:31
  markets or like a souk somewhere or just like, just a giant, you know, market
• 7:36
  and you're just like people all around you and you're like, "Don't even…
• 7:40
  No, I'm m- Are you there for f-food for the week or like, what?
• 7:44
  That's
• 7:44
  You getting a souvenir?
• 7:45
  Like, why?
• 7:45
  You're in the market.
• 7:46
  You're…"
• 7:47
  Right.
• 7:47
  But like, why?
• 7:48
  And, and you get lost if you don't have it.
• 7:51
  People will sell you tech trinkets you don't need, and
• 7:55
  That's
• 7:55
  might start listening to the wrong person.
• 7:58
  Man, all the bad things happen
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:00
  And, and next thing you know, um, you know, because time is
• 8:03
  the most precious thing, right?
• 8:04
  Like, that's another reason why having kind of that ruthless
• 8:07
  prioritization helps, because you could easily blow an hour or two hours
• 8:11
  in that market or SU- uh, browsing.
• 8:13
  And sometimes people wanna do it intentionally, but a lot of times if
• 8:16
  they don't have the question figured out, um, you've basically burnt the
• 8:20
  most thing, which is even more precious than, than money, which is time,
• 8:24
  because that's not coming back, right?
• 8:25
  So, so I think, I think part of that is, is really the, the reason for why you
• 8:30
  wanna be very clear about, um, why you wanna connect to the market and then,
• 8:34
  uh, and then find ways to effectively connect to those things once you've got
• 8:38
  some of those early questions answered.
• 8:39
  So
• 8:40
  100%. I heard you say a cool phrase.
• 8:43
  I don't know if you just invented this or if this is an actual, a method
• 8:47
  for you, but ruthless prioritization.
• 8:49
  Yes.
• 8:50
  practice ruthless prioritization.
• 8:52
  How can I practice that?
• 8:54
  I feel like prioritization is an overlooked thing, and
• 8:57
  know,
• 8:58
  we never have enough resources in marketing, time, people, money, whatever
• 9:03
  Absolutely.
• 9:03
  Um, it's, it's one of my favorite words actually because … Or
• 9:06
  favorite phrases because it is hard.
• 9:09
  Uh, it requires a lot of intentionality.
• 9:11
  Uh, it requires clarity.
• 9:14
  And worst of all is it requires you to say no to a lot of things.
• 9:17
  Um, people generally don't like to say no.
• 9:20
  Um, but if you're a marketing leader, um, especially if you As we all know, right,
• 9:27
  everybody in, in the company outside of marketing think they know how to do
• 9:31
  marketing best, and, and they always have ideas, they always have things.
• 9:34
  Uh, but I think, you know, and this is something you can practice, you
• 9:37
  know, at whatever level you are.
• 9:38
  You don't have to be a CMO to be a ruthless prioritizer.
• 9:41
  You can be doing it at, at a mid-manager level or an IC
• 9:44
  level to some extent, right?
• 9:45
  Like, it may be harder to control your time when you're IC.
• 9:47
  But, uh, but I would say yeah, I mean, it, it's all about clarity.
• 9:50
  It's like, 'cause you … We, we all have the same X number of hours in
• 9:53
  the day, and if you're very clear on the question you wanna answer, and you
• 9:58
  have a certain amount of time in which you wanna answer that question, it
• 10:00
  helps you get very clear on how do you prioritize your, your time and effort
• 10:05
  to help answer those questions, right?
• 10:08
  Or you figure out at the end of it, you know, amount of time, you're
• 10:11
  like, "I, I don't think this … I'm gonna get any further," and then
• 10:14
  you move on to the next thing.
• 10:15
  So, but, but I think it, it just allows everybody to, you know,
• 10:19
  for you to operate at a certain cadence at the organization, so.
• 10:23
  If your no muscle, you know, is, is a little weak and you take it to the no gym,
• 10:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:29
  are some ways that you get better at that?
• 10:33
  Yeah, it's a great question 'cause it's, it's a hard one and it's,
• 10:36
  it, it does get easier, um, as you build up more expertise or more
• 10:41
  experience in your, um, in your career.
• 10:44
  But I would say a lot of times, um, no doesn't mean that you're being bad, right?
• 10:49
  Or you're being, you know, an ass.
• 10:51
  I'll just use that word.
• 10:52
  Uh, no just means that you're able to say, um, and you can say no in many ways.
• 10:58
  I, I think the best way is to think about where that other person is coming
• 11:02
  from, uh, and where you're coming from.
• 11:04
  And a lot of times, uh, when you see that there's not quite an alignment
• 11:08
  of what they're looking to get out of it, what you can best do, whether
• 11:12
  it's your particular talent, uh, your particular skill or particular time or
• 11:15
  priority, you got a priority in mind.
• 11:17
  Uh, it, it's about, it's about framing the no in a way that, um, helps the other
• 11:22
  person understand why you're saying no.
• 11:24
  And if at, in a, in a, in a workplace setting, it's al- almost
• 11:27
  often framed in the context of some business priorities or goals.
• 11:32
  And I would open it-- I would, I would encourage people to approach it with an
• 11:36
  open mind, you know, constructive mind.
• 11:37
  Like you say, "Look, know you asked me for this, but here's kind of why
• 11:41
  I'm thinking it's not making a lot of sense for me to do it this week or
• 11:44
  next week. Help me understand if this is, you know, I'm thinking the right
• 11:47
  way." So you can always be, you know, 'cause it's hard sometimes to say no to
• 11:50
  somebody, maybe somebody who's two levels above in your organization, uh, or, or
• 11:54
  your peer or somebody else like that.
• 11:56
  So the situation also matters.
• 11:57
  But I think there are ways in which you can, um, approach and still
• 12:01
  protect your time to d- deliver on those prioritization, prioritize
• 12:05
  things you need to do while having a constructive dialogue.
• 12:08
  And a lot of times I think people would appreciate that.
• 12:11
  They, they feel like, okay, the person has a thoughtful way of
• 12:14
  approaching and getting things done.
• 12:16
  The flip side also matters, which means that they know that if they
• 12:20
  give you a task and that's a priority, you're gonna get it done because
• 12:23
  you're ready to say no to other things that was not a priority, right?
• 12:26
  So that, that works as well, so.
• 12:29
  Okay.
• 12:30
  Uh, man, yeah, I, and I could see even as you were saying that, I was like,
• 12:32
  "Okay, yeah." I, you know, constructively done, like a good dialogue like that
• 12:39
  can, can convey respect, and then even if you are told no, then, you know,
• 12:43
  it doesn't, doesn't sting as much 'cause you have the, the context there.
• 12:48
  And, and it, it, it just like you said, it's a muscle.
• 12:50
  Um, you gotta give it a few tries.
• 12:52
  First time's gonna suck.
• 12:53
  Uh, but I would ex- I would encourage f- folks to stay at it because this is one
• 12:57
  of those valuable skills that it gets better as you, as you practice more,
• 13:01
  and it does make you, make you more productive at the end of the day, so
• 13:05
  Well, at the beginning we, we-- I talked about how you've been an entrepreneurial
• 13:08
  founder several times, and curious how this gives you that bigger picture
• 13:15
  of, you know, having the, the bigger responsibility even than the CMO of saying
• 13:20
  like, "Okay, we're growing this organization."
• 13:22
  Yeah
• 13:23
  has that helped you with ruthless prioritization?
• 13:26
  How has it helped you with being a, a good marketing leader?
• 13:29
  It really helps give you the foundational business context, right?
• 13:32
  So if you've been in the operator seat, um, if you've been … You
• 13:36
  know, you don't have to be a CEO.
• 13:37
  You could be a GM.
• 13:38
  You could be running a, a business unit within, uh, or a
• 13:41
  group within a larger company.
• 13:43
  Um, but what it does is it gives you exposure and hands-on experience with
• 13:48
  other aspects of the business, right?
• 13:49
  Because marketing is obviously one of the, the main aspects of business,
• 13:52
  how you're gaining customers, how you're connecting to the market,
• 13:55
  how you are, how you're, you know, positioning the product, et cetera.
• 13:58
  But there are other aspects of the business, you know, building the product,
• 14:00
  you know, servicing the product, you know, all the other pieces that go with it.
• 14:04
  Uh, and, and there's, there's finance, you know, that, that's
• 14:08
  sort of the, the gasoline that powers the whole engine, right?
• 14:11
  Like, if there, there's no money and, and no fuel in the gas tank, you know,
• 14:15
  no matter how beautiful your car is, it's just not gonna move from the driveway.
• 14:19
  So being able to understand finance, uh, and then the role finance plays.
• 14:23
  And I know as marketers, we all kind of have our, our favorite
• 14:26
  finance persons in, in dartboard.
• 14:29
  We try to throw darts at them, be like, "Oh, these guys make
• 14:31
  my life suck," et cetera.
• 14:32
  Um, but I would say that in a broader business context has helped me be
• 14:37
  a better marketer because of the things is allows you to build bridges
• 14:43
  with other departments, right?
• 14:44
  Like, so marketing doesn't work in isolation.
• 14:46
  You gotta connect with the product teams to understand how products get built.
• 14:50
  You gotta connect with the finance team to understand how your campaigns get funded
• 14:53
  Right
• 14:54
  obviously is a natural relationship, right?
• 14:56
  So over the years I've been fortunate to be in roles where I've had this
• 15:00
  broader business perspective, uh, and an operator mindset that I bring.
• 15:04
  So I bring that to the marketing role because I don't think of myself as,
• 15:08
  "Hey, you know, I just do marketing here and I don't really care. Just give
• 15:11
  me the budget, I'll get you the leads, and then, you know, closing business,
• 15:15
  that's not my problem, that's sales' problem." you think that way, you're
• 15:18
  definitely gonna fail because you're…
• 15:19
  That's not how real companies operate, right?
• 15:22
  Like, it's not that, you know, at the end of the day the marketer will be
• 15:25
  like, "Well, I can't close the deals.
• 15:26
  I can't be held responsible for revenue." Yes, at the very end stage
• 15:30
  that makes sense, but have enough, um, enough of a span of control,
• 15:35
  if you will, to understand how that machinery works so that you can do a
• 15:39
  better job in how you're generating pipeline, how you're generating, you
• 15:42
  know, more qualified opportunities.
• 15:44
  You know, et cetera.
• 15:44
  Or how do you, um, you know, be a better stakeholder when it comes to finance?
• 15:49
  You know, I always say this to folks that are, are talking about
• 15:52
  marketing finance sort of friction.
• 15:55
  I'm like, "If you're at a, in a CMO seat in a mid-sized company or even a, or,
• 15:59
  you know, mid-size, you know, series BC startup, you probably have, you know, a
• 16:03
  decent amount of equity in the company." I said, "Think of, think of you are
• 16:07
  the… You are as much an owner in that company as you are a marketer, right?
• 16:11
  So in a way, you wanna be a better and a smarter, um, uh, spender of money
• 16:17
  in marketing because ultimately it affects your overall company's finances.
• 16:20
  So bring that sort of operator mindset for your marketing activities," right?
• 16:26
  Like, that's, that's what I encourage people to say is, "Look, don't wait
• 16:30
  for a finance person to tell you that you're spending too much." You should be
• 16:33
  able to ask those questions yourself to say, it really worth spending this much
• 16:37
  money on this?" on not just my marketing hat that gives you the, the quality
• 16:43
  of that channel, but put on your, your operator and your investor hat and say,
• 16:47
  Right.
• 16:48
  " Would I, spend this money?
• 16:49
  Is this a good ROI?"
• 16:50
  Right
• 16:50
  um, having that experience, makes a person a better marketer because
• 16:56
  it, it gives them a different lens, if you will, to look through.
• 17:00
  Man.
• 17:02
  It's just, uh… You know what?
• 17:05
  You know, it's interesting that the CEO does have e- that even larger expanse
• 17:10
  like that, but marketing does too.
• 17:12
  So I don't-- I feel like it, we're not starting from zero as the head of
• 17:17
  marketing, 'cause I feel like maybe other than CEO marketing and maybe
• 17:20
  finance are the only ones looking across departments, across the customer
• 17:25
  experience, and everyone else tends to be kind of siloed in a particular role.
• 17:29
  Yeah.
• 17:30
  Marketing touches a lot of different things, right?
• 17:32
  And, and I think that's another reason why if you're a marketing
• 17:35
  leader, it really behooves you to build those strong bridges, right?
• 17:39
  Like build a strong bridge with the finance leader, build a strong
• 17:42
  bridge with the product leader.
• 17:43
  Obviously sales and marketing, there's gonna be a much natural
• 17:45
  connection because they tend to work much more closely hand-in-hand.
• 17:49
  Um, and the r- and customer success.
• 17:51
  I mean, as a marketer, if you're not in, you know, strong, tight
• 17:55
  connection with the person who runs the customer success team, where are
• 17:58
  you gonna get your case studies from?
• 18:00
  Where are you gonna get your customer stories from, right?
• 18:02
  It's like So I think every connection, um, has, um, real value to helping marketing
• 18:09
  do a much better job, even to employees.
• 18:11
  There's a lot of companies where I worked as a marketing leader where
• 18:14
  employee communications sort of naturally in that, in that remit and the
• 18:19
  bucket because they need to be able to present a strong story to the employee.
• 18:24
  So HR, you know, a lot of times I've been in, in companies where HR and
• 18:27
  marketing have had, you know, you've had to really work that relationship and,
• 18:31
  and nurture that for strength because you're kind of this function that, to your
• 18:35
  point, Casey, you're sort of a bit of a all-rounder function, and you can kind
• 18:39
  of play in those different areas, right?
• 18:41
  So it's a, it's a very helpful skill to have to build those strong bridges.
• 18:47
  Hey marketing leaders.
• 18:48
  It's Amanda here from Ringmaster B2B, podcasting in today's market.
• 18:51
  B2B buying is built on one thing, trust, and there's no better way to
• 18:55
  build that trust than through a podcast that builds connection at Ringmaster.
• 18:59
  We hope you launch and grow shows.
• 19:00
  That will amplify your brand and can help drive real demand.
• 19:04
  The best part, we handle all the heavy lifting so you can
• 19:07
  focus on the big picture.
• 19:09
  So if you've been thinking about starting a podcast for your brand or taking your
• 19:12
  existing one to the next level, visit ringmaster.com to chat and book a call.
• 19:17
  I mean, my next question for you is, is really like, who are you?
• 19:22
  Who are you?
• 19:22
  How do you know these things?
• 19:24
  Can you, can you take me back in time, like little Suresh days?
• 19:28
  Did you know you were gonna be a, you know, five times CMO, multi-time,
• 19:33
  you know, CEO, like just doing things l- you know, left and right?
• 19:38
  What was it like?
• 19:39
  I think I've been very fortunate to, to be, have been, uh, presented opportunities
• 19:44
  that allowed me to make these things.
• 19:46
  I mean, I'm an engineer by background, so I, I, uh, grew up writing software
• 19:51
  and I was a s- a computer science major, so, and, and bachelor's
• 19:54
  and master's computer science.
• 19:55
  I, um, wrote software for, like, five, 10 years.
• 19:58
  So I think I have a very, you know, engineering, analytical orientation
• 20:04
  from a mindset perspective.
• 20:05
  And I know we were talking before, but you know, I used to be the only engineer
• 20:09
  on my team who loved going to meetings.
• 20:10
  So I was like, okay, I enjoy connecting to customers, really
• 20:14
  liked the, a market-facing role, uh, moved into marketing and then,
• 20:18
  um, ran global marketing teams at, um, you know, large companies.
• 20:23
  Um, but you know, one of the things that, that's a pattern for me is I always,
• 20:27
  uh, um, want to understand the adjacent function, like we talked about, right?
• 20:32
  Like
• 20:32
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  I wanted to understand how finance works so that I could be a better marketer.
• 20:37
  Uh, so I actually went and got a finance degree, uh, and tried my
• 20:40
  hands at building, you know, models and financial models, et cetera.
• 20:44
  Uh, and that really helped me, um, and it gave me sort of the broader, um,
• 20:48
  understanding for how to run a business.
• 20:50
  And at Adobe, I was a GM there for about five years, ran a global
• 20:54
  organization and really enjoyed building and running things at scale.
• 20:58
  And I said, "Hey, I think I'm ready to do a startup CEO role."
• 21:02
  And that was like, that was, you know, two lifetimes in, in two years.
• 21:06
  Yeah
• 21:07
  it, uh, zero to one twice.
• 21:09
  Uh, and yeah, again, it gave me a really good understanding of how uh, an
• 21:15
  executive mindset, uh, has to operate in order to be successful, right?
• 21:19
  And then how does that translate to marketing?
• 21:21
  But I really enjoyed my role.
• 21:23
  Uh, I like being in the marketing role, to, to our earlier conversation,
• 21:26
  because really is that intersection of, you know, um, good, strong, you know,
• 21:32
  product capabilities, understanding the market, connecting to the market,
• 21:36
  and then really solving these problems for people, uh, and finding joy in when
• 21:42
  they put your software in place and then they turn around and they're like,
• 21:45
  "Man, you guys really saved my butt."
• 21:47
  Like, you know, or… And, and, and those do happen.
• 21:50
  I know a lot of times you hear only negative stories, but the happy thing
• 21:54
  about in marketing is you can hear positive customer success stories
• 21:57
  where, you know, they bought something from you and, and, and their, you
• 22:01
  know, the, their life improved, right?
• 22:03
  Or their value improved, et cetera.
• 22:05
  So that's, there's a real joy in that, right?
• 22:07
  So to me that, um, as I did that more and more, I really enjoyed it and I kept
• 22:12
  coming back to sort of the marketing leadership role because it really brought,
• 22:16
  you know, the elements I like, right?
• 22:18
  Which is how do you understand a particular set of capabilities, the buyer,
• 22:22
  the market, and then how do you build a, um, a scalable demand generation engine?
• 22:27
  So I have experience on both sides, and I bring the two together so
• 22:31
  that… 'Cause it's never in isolation.
• 22:33
  So a lot of, a lot of times, you know, companies up with one problem.
• 22:38
  Like, it's kind of like, you know, um, I, I don't know if
• 22:40
  you've had this other analogies.
• 22:42
  Like, you, you go to your doctor with, you know, knee pain, um, and
• 22:45
  the doctor's like, "Let me take a look at your ankle and heel first."
• 22:49
  And you're like, "No, I have a knee pain."
• 22:51
  Hmm.
• 22:51
  knee pain is because you have something going on in your ankle or your heel.
• 22:56
  Let me fix that Let's see if you still have the knee pain." So the, the, the
• 23:00
  analogy is sometimes people say like, "Oh, my pipeline sucks, and I gotta
• 23:04
  rebuild demand gen." And if you just bring in somebody who's just about demand
• 23:08
  gen, you miss the knee pain, right?
• 23:10
  Which is like, well, it turns out the real problem is positioning.
• 23:13
  You're really not selling it to the right people 'cause your product has evolved.
• 23:18
  So that's, that's kinda how I think about it, and I enjoy that.
• 23:20
  I enjoy kind of going in and diagnosing, you know, knee pains
• 23:25
  and finding out that the real pain is the ankle or the, or the heel.
• 23:28
  So
• 23:29
  Yeah.
• 23:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 23:30
  No, you know what's funny?
• 23:31
  That happened to me actually with the, the knee pain.
• 23:34
  I, um, I'd done a bunch of hockey and, like new, it was like a new thing.
• 23:40
  I was doing hockey and then, yeah, I had this knee pain and,
• 23:43
  you know, you're right, any kind of surgeon would use a hammer.
• 23:46
  But no, just a sports PT person who did the whole thing where they test
• 23:50
  how strong your muscles are, and my outside ones, which apparently
• 23:54
  get used in skating a lot, were just like awesome, Hercules strong.
• 23:58
  It was the inside one that was weak, like super weak, like grandma weak, and because
• 24:04
  one was stronger than the other, they… It was pulling it out of alignment.
• 24:08
  All I gotta do is just do exercises on the inside ones,
• 24:12
  and lo and behold, it goes away.
• 24:14
  So I think your, your example is absolutely tremendous.
• 24:17
  That's, that's so true.
• 24:20
  So true.
• 24:21
  Well, I have a bit of a hypothetical question for you if you're ready.
• 24:25
  Okay.
• 24:26
  All right.
• 24:26
  You see, I may or may not have had or have a time machine here in New
• 24:32
  Hampshire, so you gotta get put on the, the down coat, come visit, customer
• 24:38
  experience, customer visitor or something.
• 24:39
  I don't know.
• 24:39
  Come on over.
• 24:41
  Yeah
• 24:42
  but it's in the backyard covered in a tarp.
• 24:44
  And so we use this time machine, and we go back in time, and you
• 24:48
  get a chance to meet yourself.
• 24:50
  And like you were talking about, you get a chance to meet yourself when
• 24:52
  you're doing school, but this was a couple days, four days after getting
• 24:57
  your undergrad when you were in hardcore computer science mode, right?
• 25:02
  Yeah.
• 25:02
  And eventually more computer science, and eventually came strategic management
• 25:06
  and finance and all those goodies.
• 25:08
  But, like, this was old school days,
• 25:10
  Yeah
• 25:11
  NIT, computer science.
• 25:13
  You're talking to that Suresh.
• 25:15
  What do you tell yourself?
• 25:18
  That's a really good question.
• 25:19
  Um, I think if, if, um, if I had the chance to go back, um, and
• 25:26
  tell myself something, I would say, um, be curious always.
• 25:32
  I think I kind of developed the curiosity and developed, um, the love for learning
• 25:37
  a lot of new things, um, as I got into more of the working mindset engineering
• 25:42
  and then I went into marketing.
• 25:44
  Um, I think when I was in the-- earlier in my engineering career, I was, um,
• 25:48
  kind of more heads down just, you know, just doing what I was told, right?
• 25:52
  So sort of like, uh, you know, I would say that if, if anything, think
• 25:57
  getting exposure to how other parts of the, of an organization, how, how
• 26:02
  the markets and how those things work
• 26:04
  Yeah
• 26:05
  is, is super interesting and sh- and no matter what role you're in,
• 26:10
  I think is, is very valuable, right?
• 26:12
  So, and I would say that, uh, and I still think curiosity is my superpower.
• 26:16
  Uh, I'm, I'm always curious about things, and I like to learn about things.
• 26:20
  But if I were to go back and tell me, tell me something, I would say,
• 26:23
  yeah, I would say be more curious, be more outgoing in terms of talking
• 26:28
  to other departments and other, um…
• 26:30
  Learn more faster.
• 26:32
  I think there's something about the speed element that I think, um, we, uh…
• 26:37
  There's, there's very few people that run at a fast speed from the very beginning.
• 26:41
  A lot of us sort of develop it over a period of time.
• 26:44
  Um, but I would say, you know, run fast, more, more curious, talk to more people.
• 26:50
  I think those are my, those are my advice, I would say.
• 26:54
  Now, I don't know if I would listen to those if somebody told me that,
• 26:57
  Well, that was my next follow-up is not only if somebody told you
• 27:00
  that, but if you told yourself that,
• 27:03
  That's
• 27:03
  think younger you would listen?
• 27:05
  Uh, yeah, I, I hope so.
• 27:07
  I hope so.
• 27:07
  I think, um, I think the, you know, there's always, there's
• 27:10
  always an element of that.
• 27:11
  But yeah, I would say, you know, in, in today's world,
• 27:13
  that's, that's what it takes.
• 27:14
  It takes being curious and running fast because, um, everything
• 27:19
  changes around us so fast.
• 27:20
  So you have to be, running full speed, but you never forget, you
• 27:24
  know, you never forget the why, right?
• 27:26
  Like, you gotta always center yourself back to, am I doing this?
• 27:31
  You know, what is … The intentionality matters more than anything, especially
• 27:34
  now, because distraction gets more, as the opportunities to get distracted
• 27:40
  multiplies tenfold, the successful folks in, in marketing, of course, um, are,
• 27:47
  are centering themselves by saying, you know, you know, "What's the why?"
• 27:50
  Like, "Why am I doing a particular activity," right?
• 27:52
  So, so if you bring it back to that and you center on the why,
• 27:56
  um, things will get a lot easier.
• 27:58
  What happens also is that you get super productive because if you keep staying
• 28:04
  focused on the why, the tools become more of a force multiplier than a distractor.
• 28:10
  Because you're gonna … You're only gonna use the tools to help
• 28:12
  you figure the why out, right?
• 28:14
  You're not just using the tools for the tools' sake.
• 28:16
  Um, you're using it to figure out the why.
• 28:18
  So you keep coming back to the, the why am I doing this?
• 28:21
  What do I wanna learn from this?
• 28:22
  Uh, and then the tools suddenly become your 10X multiplier as opposed to
• 28:27
  you know, and we've all been there.
• 28:28
  I'm, I'm not a saint, you know.
• 28:30
  I go to LinkedIn for, um, you know, sending a note to somebody, and
• 28:33
  next thing I know is 30 minutes gone and I was like, "What did I come to
• 28:37
  LinkedIn for?" You know, like, so.
• 28:38
  But I think having kind of that intentionality and then not forgetting
• 28:42
  the why, I think is, is super helpful to be a, a very effective marketer.
• 28:47
  I totally agree, man.
• 28:48
  Hey, where can people reach out to you to connect with you?
• 28:52
  Yeah.
• 28:52
  Um, uh, great, um, uh, LinkedIn, I'm, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn,
• 28:56
  so if you go look up, uh, LinkedIn, uh, Suresh, uh, Balasubramanian or
• 29:00
  Suresh B if you're not connected to me, I think, or, um, if you want a
• 29:04
  URL, it's like linkedin.com/in/sbexec.
• 29:09
  Uh, that's S-B-E-X-E-C.
• 29:12
  welcome connections.
• 29:13
  Always happy to, um, you know, spend time with folks that are looking for,
• 29:17
  um, help or if they just wanna, talk about, uh, prioritization or, you know,
• 29:23
  or AI or other things that I know it's, it's, it's on our top of mind today.
• 29:27
  I'm happy to do that.
• 29:28
  So
• 29:29
  All right.
• 29:30
  Well, man, thank you so much for coming on here.
• 29:33
  I feel like it was a, it was a bit of, um, uh, a first principles masterclass
• 29:39
  in the m- marketing leadership space in that we didn't, we didn't even get to
• 29:43
  like the l- let's do the con- No, no, no.
• 29:45
  Hold on.
• 29:46
  Don't connect.
• 29:46
  Why do you wanna connect?
• 29:47
  And, and I, I've always found that the m- the more intentional people win, right?
• 29:51
  The more intentional leaders are better leaders, the more intentional you
• 29:55
  are with your health or your family.
• 29:57
  Like, it's always better to be intentional, and I feel like this is the
• 29:59
  ultimate intention saying, "Okay, you're gonna do your job, you're gonna connect
• 30:02
  to your market, you're gonna do marketing.
• 30:04
  Why?
• 30:05
  And then who are you gonna talk to?
• 30:07
  And then what are you gonna say?" But we need it to be in that order,
• 30:10
  and I feel like it was such a, such a wake-up call, like the ice bucket
• 30:13
  challenge over the head, you know?
• 30:16
  That's right.
• 30:16
  That's right.
• 30:17
  So thank you.
• 30:18
  Thank you for coming on here
• 30:19
  Great.
• 30:19
  Thank you.
• 30:20
  I really enjoyed the conversation
• 30:21
  Absolutely.
• 30:22
  And for those listening, if you enjoyed it or if you learned something, and
• 30:26
  I freaking know you did because I literally have two pages of notes over
• 30:29
  here, then share this with someone else.
• 30:32
  One person, two people, 9,000 is cool.
• 30:35
  But honestly, even one person, like who needs to hear this?
• 30:38
  Whose marketing's disjointed?
• 30:40
  Who's disconnected?
• 30:41
  Who's just firing at the hip or maybe they're firing at the SaaS
• 30:44
  hip and they're just, they're basing their strategy on the tool?
• 30:48
  Get them this episode so that Suresh can just shake some sense into them.
• 30:52
  Um, and with that, Suresh, thank you again, sir
• 30:55
  Thank you, Casey.
• 30:56
  All right, everybody.
• 30:57
  This has been a crazy cool, very exciting, very first principles
• 31:01
  episode of the Connect to Market pod.
• 31:03
  We will see you all next time