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Becoming Anchored S3E8: What Therapists Want You To Know About Themselves with Amber Lucchino · Becoming Anchored

0:03
Laura: Hi, everyone.
0:04
Welcome to the Becoming Anchored podcast.
0:07
My name is Laura Dineen, and I am super excited for this episode
0:11
that we have planned for today.
0:12
I cannot wait to dive into this content with you all.
0:15
We have an amazing guest today.
0:18
Amber, how do you say your last name?
0:19
Lachino?
0:21
Okay.
0:22
So it's okay.
0:23
Luchino with us.
0:24
I should have totally asked you
0:25
that
0:25
Amber: okay.
0:26
Everyone says Luchino, so totally fine.
0:28
Laura: Well, we're going to talk about imperfections
0:30
today.
0:31
And so what a wonderful way to start off our podcast.
0:33
But yeah, we have Amber Luchino today on the show and she is just
0:37
so lovely, a wonderful colleague and friend, and I'm super excited
0:41
for you all to learn from her today.
0:42
If you are new to the becoming anchored podcast, we are really
0:46
about two things on this show.
0:48
So first and foremost, Lauren and I, who is not with us today,
0:51
but it is with us in spirit.
0:52
We really talk about our shared humanity with you all.
0:55
So what I mean by that is really just this idea that we go through pain and suffering
1:00
and we also have moments of joy and peace.
1:03
And we are really just here to ride the waves of life with you
1:06
all, first and foremost as humans.
1:08
And then secondly, we have the wonderful privilege and
1:11
gift of sitting with clients.
1:13
We cherish the work that we do.
1:15
We absolutely adore I don't even want to call it like a job, but this work,
1:20
I guess, is a more fitting description.
1:21
And we really just, love the clients that we get to sit with day in and day out.
1:26
And so we have the amazing privilege of sharing some of the wisdom that we have
1:30
gleaned over the years as therapists.
1:49
So welcome, welcome.
1:50
And real quick disclaimer, if you are seeking therapy in the state of
1:55
Tennessee, we would be honored to see you.
1:57
And at the end of the show, Amber will share a little bit more about how
2:00
you can find her and some of the work that she does, but please reach out.
2:03
We see clients across the state of Tennessee virtually,
2:06
and then in person as well.
2:07
And if not, we encourage you to find someone local to you.
2:11
So without further ado today, Amber and I were chatting about just different topics.
2:15
And I know Amber could share on many different topics, but Amber
2:19
is such a wonderful resource just for how therapists show up.
2:24
She trains her team to excel in the treatment of their clients.
2:29
And so we thought it might be helpful just to talk about what your therapist
2:33
wants you to know about themselves.
2:35
And so this is really in the therapy world.
2:38
Person of the therapist is what we refer to it as, but some of the things
2:43
that make our jobs so unique, we really wanted to cover in today's episode.
2:48
So Amber, thank you for being
2:50
here.
2:50
Amber: you so much for having me.
2:52
Laura: Yeah, of course.
2:54
Yeah, I'm just curious what comes up for you with this title and
2:58
really the content of this episode.
3:00
Where would you like to start us off today?
3:02
Yeah.
3:03
Amber: been doing this a long time, so about 20 years.
3:06
So I've certainly seen a huge shift in the therapy world and what modalities
3:10
we're focusing on and shifting more into evidence based and all those pieces, which
3:16
is awesome, like more research based.
3:18
But I think the thing that's been consistent over 20 years is really the
3:22
professional use of ourself in session and that like if we're not willing to
3:27
do the deep work in our own stories, and if we're not willing to lean into the
3:32
discomfort ourselves it can be really difficult to make traction with a client
3:36
when we're asking them to do those things.
3:39
Laura: So let's unpack this a little bit.
3:41
Tell me a little bit more about what you mean by doing our own work.
3:46
Amber: Yeah.
3:46
That is really loaded, isn't it?
3:48
As I
3:48
Laura: Well, I just would love to hear your language
3:50
and your thoughts on that.
3:51
Amber: Yeah.
3:52
I mean, I think what comes up for me is like, we're human also, right?
3:55
So none of us are immune to hard things, to traumatic things happening in our life.
4:01
Our own histories, which largely propels most of us to do this work anyway.
4:06
If you ask any therapist there, why you backstory of here's
4:10
something I experienced in my own story or in a loved one's story.
4:15
And that often precipitates.
4:16
So I think when we're asking clients to come in and talk about their feelings
4:20
and unpack hard things they've been through are we also willing to go to
4:24
therapy have our support, like dive into the deeper therapeutic work
4:30
that we're doing with our clients?
4:32
Laura: Absolutely.
4:33
Yeah.
4:34
Yeah.
4:34
Gosh, there's so much here that I just would love to pick your
4:37
brain on and I agree with you.
4:39
I mean, and I don't think for the record that this means that we have
4:42
to have gone through everything that our clients go through, but there is a
4:47
piece around our willingness to look at.
4:51
own pain and our own shame, hurt, disappointment, grief.
4:56
That does expand what we call our window of tolerance.
5:00
And we get anchored our trauma informed practice.
5:02
And I know that you do a lot of deep trauma work as well in your line of work.
5:06
And so, I do think that gives us the ability once we do our own work
5:11
and once we widen our own windows of tolerance to sit well with clients.
5:16
And I completely agree with you, right?
5:17
Like if we don't have a deep emotional capacity to tolerate our own emotions
5:23
and our own pain, how in the world are we going to tolerate someone else's pain?
5:27
And so through that lens of the window of tolerance, which for the record,
5:30
we talk a lot about that on the show.
5:31
If you're,
5:32
if this is the first episode you're listening to go look it up.
5:34
Dan Siegel.
5:36
coined this term, I think in the 90s, 1990s.
5:38
And so, yeah, this is a wonderful framework, right?
5:40
It's like, okay, if we're asking clients to go there and air quotations, then we
5:45
have to be willing to do that as well.
5:48
Amber: And I think recognizing too, that, complex trauma is mostly
5:51
what I've worked with over my career in different capacities.
5:54
And they become highly attuned to scanning for safety and danger in their
5:58
environment and picking up on subtle body language of a clinician, of facial
6:05
expressions, affect because that's what's helped to keep them safe over their life.
6:09
And so, I love that you brought up window of tolerance because
6:13
they will become very aware of.
6:15
if we get out of ours during a session and clients will hold back if they're
6:20
sensing like, Oh, this is too much for my clinician, or I can tell it's
6:23
got them a little uncomfortable.
6:24
So I think really tuning into what's going on within us is something I talk a lot
6:28
with supervisees about it's less, I think sometimes about what we're saying and
6:32
more, what is my internal response, right?
6:34
Like, what am I noticing in my body?
6:37
Am I experiencing any counter transference?
6:39
Where something the client has said has brought up something in me and
6:42
that might influence my response.
6:44
So, so much of that in the moment reflection, I think is critical to really
6:48
show up in an authentic and helpful way.
6:51
Laura: Absolutely.
6:52
And it's quick
6:52
too.
6:53
And also it can be subtle.
6:55
And so as a clinician, right, you're holding so many different things.
6:59
You're trying to process what the client has shared with you.
7:03
You're also monitoring your own body language.
7:06
And then also hopefully Challenging, encouraging, giving them feedback.
7:10
And all of that is happening fast.
7:12
And so I do think that is a skill that we can always be growing in, right?
7:17
It's not like we've arrived.
7:18
I
7:18
think that's an important point to make.
7:20
But yeah, that internal awareness.
7:22
And I think another term that we could Coin today is really this
7:26
concept of embodiment, right?
7:28
So I use my hands a lot.
7:30
I'm actually doing it on this
7:31
podcast.
7:31
If you're watching it.
7:32
on YouTube I tend to poke fun at myself.
7:34
I spill my coffee or water in session.
7:37
We train our staff to really like lean in, if someone's sharing something
7:41
hard, I'm not going to like, fold my arms and like look at them like this,
7:46
right?
7:46
Because I wouldn't want that as a client.
7:49
And so it's just noticing even the small things that we're doing or not doing
7:53
really that either I think increase or decrease that that sense of safety.
7:59
So that felt sense of safety that sometimes we can't even like necessarily
8:03
put our finger on, but the client.
8:05
notices from us as clinicians.
8:08
So yeah, those things are all just really important.
8:11
And even before I became a therapist, those are things that my first
8:14
therapist in Nashville did so well.
8:17
And looking back, I'm like, Oh, she did that when I maybe was unhealthy.
8:21
And I didn't necessarily know that's what she was doing, but that's one
8:24
of the things that helped me recover.
8:26
And I was the recipient of really excellent therapy because she was
8:30
so embodied and modeled what that was like even for me as a client.
8:35
So just interesting even to reflect on different ways that clinicians do that and
8:41
different therapists that I've seen over the years that have done that so well.
8:45
Amber: hundred percent.
8:46
I think that communicating safety is just so core.
8:48
Whether or not someone has trauma.
8:50
And that can be really subtle things of offering water when
8:54
they first come to session.
8:55
If I've noticed a client is way out of their window of tolerance,
8:58
sometimes I've sat on the floor just to communicate to their nervous system.
9:02
There's not a power differential and that they're in a safe space.
9:05
So I think there's really basic things that we can do while
9:07
we're monitoring ourselves to create that safety in a session.
9:11
Laura: Absolutely.
9:12
Yeah.
9:13
I've done that as well.
9:13
Sat on the floor for different sessions just to like really increase that sense
9:17
of groundedness and even permission.
9:20
I think to like break the rules, so to speak.
9:24
And of course we want to break the rules and like appropriate ways.
9:27
But you know, I think just even the permission to ask the client,
9:31
Hey, do you want to change where you're seated in the room?
9:34
Do you want to move spots on the couch?
9:36
Do you want to stand up?
9:37
Do you want to sit down?
9:38
Do you want to sit on the floor with me?
9:39
And a lot of that, I think, is really is from that skill of immediacy, right?
9:45
So that's the skill of noticing a client's like you're talking about, right?
9:49
A client's body language.
9:51
Are they outside of their window of tolerance?
9:53
We as clinicians hopefully are always noticing those things and gently
9:58
pointing that out to a client because the goal is that they are taking
10:02
that observation and then practicing that themselves outside of session,
10:06
Amber: Right.
10:07
And I think we can be strategic as clinicians if we're noticing.
10:10
And then I'm going to be doing some sort of activation internally.
10:12
I've done in session before where I've been like, gosh, I'm just really
10:15
noticing X, Y, and Z in my body.
10:17
I'm going to grab some oils and take a deep breath.
10:19
Do you want to do that with me?
10:21
And so it's, I'm really regulating myself and modeling that it's okay to
10:24
say that and use a tool in the moment and inviting them to do that with me.
10:29
so it's that co regulation really like paying
10:31
attention to my own body sensations and then inviting that.
10:34
With a client to join in.
10:36
Laura: Yeah.
10:37
Yeah.
10:37
I've definitely asked a client like, Hey, I actually realized I'm really thirsty.
10:41
Can I go
10:41
grab some water when I was pregnant with my daughter?
10:44
And for the record, even if you're not pregnant as a therapist listening to this
10:47
and you need to go to the restroom, that
10:48
would be
10:49
totally fine.
10:50
I was like, I'm, I need to go use the restroom right now.
10:53
And so, yeah, I mean, just even those small things of like, Hey, yeah.
10:56
Your needs matter and my needs matter and let's cultivate an awareness of
11:01
those needs and an ability to meet the needs in our sessions because a
11:06
lot of clients, as come to us and they don't believe that their needs matter
11:10
or they've been told that their needs don't matter by traumatic various
11:14
traumatic experiences that they've had growing up or even in their adulthood.
11:18
And so
11:23
Amber: I think the more, we can share that.
11:25
I love that you talk about so much on your podcast and in your
11:27
practice of this shared humanity.
11:30
But yes, we, we do know some things, right?
11:32
Like we know some things about trauma and about eating disorders and some
11:35
skills and tools, but really coming from a framework of the client is the expert
11:39
on themselves and I'm coming alongside.
11:43
So getting away from that power differential of.
11:45
I'm the expert and can impart to you things that will change your life
11:48
and more I'm coming from a place of curiosity and coming alongside,
11:52
which I think
11:52
Laura: Mhm.
11:53
Amber: an important shift.
11:55
Laura: Yeah, absolutely.
11:56
A to that.
11:58
supervi with me just about the im gently challenging ourselves
12:03
to notice as clinicians if we are walking ahead of our client, right?
12:07
So we're going too much, too fast, too soon.
12:10
And maybe they're struggling to keep up or their nervous system is
12:13
overwhelmed, or if we're walking behind them and like pushing them along.
12:18
So just noticing, I think that can really keep us in check as therapists of like,
12:22
am I really walking alongside this person?
12:24
And what does that actually tangibly mean in my sessions?
12:29
Amber: A hundred percent.
12:29
Yeah.
12:30
And I think that goes as basic as the treatment plan.
12:32
Like is it really us saying, here's what the goals are or is
12:36
it really hearing from the client?
12:38
Here are the goals.
12:39
Even if that maybe differs from what, we might think it is or the direction we
12:43
want to go, but really letting them have a say in that and giving consent to what
12:47
we're actually working on in session.
12:49
Laura: absolutely.
12:50
Absolutely.
12:50
And that's that collaborative piece that I think is so important along with like
12:55
returning to the treatment goals, right?
12:58
So it's like, Hey, do I objectively notice progress in you?
13:02
Like, let's celebrate that.
13:04
Do you sense that you are making progress towards your stated goals?
13:08
And if not, let's explore that with curiosity over shame
13:12
and a nonjudgment approach.
13:14
And I think sometimes clients minimize their goals or have
13:16
difficulty even noting their progress.
13:19
And so that can be a beautiful way to celebrate progress or
13:22
to shift directions in therapy.
13:24
No, nope, human is the same.
13:26
And so someone might refer.
13:29
might respond a little bit better to acceptance and commitment therapy
13:32
and someone else might respond better to CBT or ERP or EMDR.
13:36
And so I think just even have having flexibility as clinicians
13:40
to honor the story that's like right in front of us versus like
13:44
imposing what we think the client,
13:47
Amber: That's really, been fun to see for me at our residential location.
13:51
Every week during our treatment team, we bring in each client and they're
13:55
checking in of here's where my goals are.
13:58
This is what I think I need more support in.
14:00
We're asking, is there anything we need to adjust?
14:02
So it's really moving to a place of, like you said, collaboration and allowing
14:06
them to weigh in on what they need.
14:08
And that might look different than what we think their goals might
14:11
need to be, but really meeting them where they're at is so important.
14:15
Laura: Absolutely.
14:16
Yeah, absolutely.
14:17
Yeah.
14:18
And it has been interesting for me.
14:20
I think I circling back to this idea of doing our own work, right?
14:25
Because I adore seeing clients.
14:27
I don't supervise the team anymore.
14:28
Lauren does.
14:29
So she's the clinical director at our practice.
14:31
And so she has more kind of one on one interaction with them, but I'm
14:35
super grateful for each of them.
14:36
And one of the things that I have noticed too, over the years is for lack
14:40
of a better way of saying it, but in my opinion, the best therapists are
14:43
the ones that have gone to therapy.
14:44
And so when we are interviewing someone we're not directly asking about their
14:50
therapeutic experience, but like you said, oftentimes they are like, you know what?
14:53
I've went to therapy for this and this, and it changed my life.
14:56
And now I want to do this as my job.
14:59
And so it is cool to hear people, even that we're interviewing
15:03
for positions here at Anchored.
15:04
share about their own experiences in therapy.
15:08
And in my opinion, that is one of the things that makes them.
15:13
Really excellent and
15:15
gives them the skills that they need to not only see clients, but have clients
15:20
come back Right because like you were talking about I mean that's retention and
15:24
we talk a lot about that in our practice of like hey There's no shame and what
15:27
can we learn from this experience, right?
15:30
So did your client feel safe to open up?
15:33
What are you doing as a therapist to?
15:36
cultivate that and To have clients return so that they don't feel You know,
15:41
give up on the therapeutic process.
15:42
And I understand that it's not all on the clinician.
15:45
I know that there's like various factors, but it is one piece, right?
15:48
So what is the clinician's efforts, if you will, to make the client
15:54
feel heard or help the client feel heard, seen and understood?
15:58
Amber: absolutely.
15:59
yeah,
15:59
And I tagging on what you were saying about the humanity, I think
16:02
if a client shows up and we're acting like we have it all together.
16:07
I know that doesn't make me feel comfortable.
16:08
Like if I'm in a professional setting and everyone seems real put together,
16:12
I'm just like, Oh, I definitely don't.
16:14
So this is awkward.
16:15
And then I'm uncomfortable.
16:17
But I think for any of us as humans, when we can show up with
16:21
Authenticity and vulnerability and have that met with compassion and
16:25
kind of shared vulnerability as appropriate, like that is so critical,
16:29
I think, in developing that rapport.
16:31
I mean, we could have a whole other talk, probably on appropriate use
16:34
of self disclosure and what the
16:36
ethical parameters are.
16:37
We won't dive into that today, but, I do think that's a piece
16:39
of it is even skillfully.
16:40
If you do have parts of your story that would be relevant that would
16:44
help the client's process knowing when to strategically fold that in.
16:48
But ultimately showing up in your own humanity, I think
16:51
invites the same in our clients.
16:53
Laura: it does.
16:54
It does.
16:54
And I think our clients.
16:56
typically already struggle with this idea of like perception or image management.
17:01
And so we are really doing them a disservice if we're not modeling what
17:05
it looks like to take that mask off.
17:08
I can't remember what age, like they, the, the expert researchers
17:11
talk about, like we learn to
17:13
mask, right?
17:14
We learn.
17:14
And what I mean by that, if you're listening today is like, we learned to
17:17
put up this mask and this kind of facade and we start to overly value what people
17:22
think of us at a really tender young age.
17:25
I think it's like.
17:25
Four or
17:26
five,
17:26
maybe.
17:27
I know.
17:28
I know.
17:29
Totally.
17:29
Yeah it's absolutely getting younger.
17:31
And that's also a little bit scary, right?
17:32
I
17:33
have an almost two year old and I'm like, Oh gosh, like I want her to
17:35
have permission to like squeal and laugh and cry and without this mask.
17:41
And so I do love that you brought this up.
17:43
And one of my values is actually authenticity.
17:46
And we actually did an episode on that earlier on in the
17:48
show because I do think it's.
17:50
So crucial to start to notice, okay, what environments am I masking in and
17:57
what might be causing that or triggering that or activating that, so to speak.
18:01
And with clients, especially, we want to unmask
18:04
and we want to show our imperfections, of course, within appropriate
18:09
context and boundaries and ethics.
18:11
Right.
18:11
But I do think it's absolutely appropriate to show our imperfections to model
18:16
imperfection and to share about how we Move through that in healthy ways.
18:21
Right.
18:22
So I was actually just telling a client, about, she was expressing
18:25
some conflict with her partner.
18:27
And I was telling her about like, just normalizing
18:30
that.
18:30
Right.
18:30
So like, Hey, the last time that Sean and I had a fight, this is what transpired.
18:35
And this is one of the things that I did to move through that healthfully.
18:39
And of course I'm not like sharing inappropriate details, but I am
18:43
modeling like, Hey, There are times when we're going to have conflict
18:47
with your spouse and instead of, using maladaptive behaviors, let's figure
18:51
out how we can support you and moving through this in a different way.
18:56
And also letting her know like, Hey, there are times when I have conflict
18:58
with Sean and I'm a therapist and still don't handle it perfectly.
19:01
Right.
19:02
Amber: And I think we need that because I think they can and so I think it's
19:04
important for us to be able to look at us as therapists or providers again and
19:06
think, well they have it all together and they have it all figured out.
19:09
One thing I'm noticing is the older I get, I guess this is one of the blessings,
19:13
the more comfortable I'm getting with what I don't know and what I'm not good
19:17
at, whereas as a new clinician I think it's pretty common to have this sense
19:21
of imposter syndrome and I need to prove myself or show up in a certain way.
19:25
So I think that has been one of the gifts of being in the field a long time
19:28
is just being so much more comfortable with showing up in a very human way.
19:33
and I think that gives an invitation to our clients of like, okay, this is
19:36
another human, like I can mask as well.
19:40
Laura: Yeah.
19:41
Yeah.
19:41
There's like an internal I think confidence or peace.
19:45
Those are the two words that are coming to mind.
19:47
And I think some clinicians, especially in their earlier, years as a therapist
19:52
can almost put too much pressure on themselves and that can lead to
19:58
the client perceiving that they're masking, even if the clinician is
20:01
not thinking that they're doing that.
20:02
And Yeah.
20:03
I mean, I love what you're saying about this, right?
20:06
Just this idea that we can be confident in our skillset.
20:10
And of course we want to support our clients towards their healing and growth,
20:15
but there's less like of a performance, I guess that might be a word that, not
20:20
that we're like getting into this field to perform, but almost that pressure that
20:23
can lead to that performative kind of,
20:26
I don't know, stuff or issues that can happen in the therapy space
20:29
between the therapist and clients.
20:31
Yeah, and one of the things that I love too, just about
20:34
like person of the therapist, is permission to make mistakes, right?
20:38
So, when we're circling back to this title of like, okay, what your therapist wants.
20:42
you to know about themselves, right?
20:44
We are going to mess up in the therapeutic space and we are going to
20:48
say things that maybe don't sit well with our clients, or maybe the client
20:54
rejects your feedback or it doesn't feel pertinent to them or helpful, or
20:58
maybe they receive it as criticism.
21:00
And I think one of the marks of a really solid clinician is the ability to repair.
21:06
so not only to notice.
21:08
Yeah.
21:09
It's not only to notice.
21:11
It's the rupture, right?
21:12
So if I have a client that kind of shifts in their seat and I don't
21:16
know, stops making eye contact with me or whatever they do when there is
21:20
a rupture, I will pause and ask them like, Hey, how did you receive that?
21:26
Was there something that just happened?
21:28
Let's slow this down right now and apologize if necessary.
21:33
Okay.
21:33
Share my intention.
21:34
And of course there's impact as well.
21:36
But I want to hear about like how the client received that, what their emotional
21:39
response was, what they would like to share with me, how I can do better moving
21:44
forward and grow from that experience.
21:46
So I think that also is really key in the therapeutic relationship is to
21:50
model what healthy repair looks like.
21:52
Amber: I definitely think that's where the magic is.
21:54
like my newer therapist or supervisees can talk about the discomfort that can happen
22:00
if you're in a session and you notice like, Ooh, that just did not land at all.
22:03
Or that was not what I intended.
22:05
And I'm like, Oh, this is exciting though, because that's where the magic is.
22:08
Like that's the, in the moment when there can be appropriate,
22:11
healthy repair and like a return to that relationship in a safe way.
22:18
That's not just helpful in the moment, but that's also healing like historical
22:22
things in their body and nervous system.
22:24
so I just, I actually get excited when that happens, if there's ruptures, because
22:28
it's like, this really is the magic and the opportunity for us to show up and have
22:31
a different outcome than maybe they've had with other people in their life.
22:34
Laura: Sure.
22:35
And putting all the puzzle pieces together here, right?
22:38
Like if we allow shame and guilt to direct that conversation, it might not go so
22:43
well, right?
22:43
So if you're a newer therapist listening to the show and maybe you struggle
22:47
with your own perfectionism or maybe have gone to a place of shame or guilt,
22:53
I have so much compassion for you as someone who has personally gone there.
22:58
But I think it's the ability to hold both.
23:00
So if you're watching this, right, it's like, okay, I'm noticing that guilt
23:04
or shame are here and I'm going to challenge myself to notice them, but
23:09
also do this repair work with the client.
23:12
And that's that dialect, right?
23:14
That I think as clinicians, we can even struggle with, right?
23:16
It doesn't have to be one or the other.
23:18
Maybe it is an opportunity for you to learn as a therapist and Improve and
23:23
change maybe your language or how your body posture or how you say something
23:28
and we have to be cautious not to let guilt or shame drive that conversation.
23:34
And that can be tricky.
23:36
And that's part of doing our own work is that ability to hold both, right?
23:39
Can I see this person right here in front of me?
23:42
And can I maybe notice some of my own emotional responses that once this client
23:46
gets up and leaves that I can get my own supervision around or support around.
23:51
hard to do.
23:52
Amber: And I think encouraging clients in our sessions to, just saying that
23:55
there's going to be times where I might say something that doesn't land right.
23:58
And I want you to give me feedback on that.
24:00
Like I really welcome that feedback.
24:01
It's important for this process.
24:03
It's important for our relationship.
24:05
So really opening the floor for clients to do that.
24:08
And for us again, to be able to receive it to your point, to be able
24:10
to hold that if a client is brave enough to bring that to the floor.
24:15
Laura: Yeah, because our job is not to get defensive
24:19
or to stonewall a client, God forbid, or to criticize them.
24:23
Right?
24:23
Like we want to do it differently than maybe how other people in their
24:28
life had have responded to feedback.
24:31
And that's hard.
24:32
And that requires a lot of our own emotional work and tolerance, if you will.
24:38
And that, that's just a lot of, I think, inner work that has to take place.
24:44
As a therapist, I remember just as we're talking my first therapist
24:48
that I saw in Nashville and I've had the privilege of seeing a couple of
24:52
different, just amazing clinicians.
24:53
But I remember looking at her a couple of years in and I was
24:57
like, I want to do what you do.
24:59
And that's such a sweet, like memory just because she was so impactful in my life.
25:05
And I had seen a handful of people.
25:07
other people prior.
25:08
And, I think it was a blend of like, maybe me not being ready or maybe
25:12
me not having the same quality of therapy that I'd gotten with her.
25:16
But it's so cool to see even the ripple effect, right?
25:20
Like I've had clients that have gone on to be therapists and just some of the impact
25:25
that maybe we don't even know about.
25:26
Right.
25:27
I think as clinicians and that story, Just reminds me of that.
25:31
Amber: I love that.
25:32
I
25:33
Laura: Yeah.
25:34
Yeah.
25:34
I'm trying to think what else.
25:35
I think showing up imperfectly, unmasking, permission to repair,
25:41
Amber: think the other thing that's coming to mind, to circle around
25:44
is paying really close attention.
25:47
I think this is where supervision comes in when we might need to step away from the
25:51
work whether that's due to personal things in our own life or burnout that can happen
25:59
if we're not taking care of ourselves.
26:01
And for a therapist to know it's okay to step away.
26:03
Like if you, whether that looks like a vacation, like you need to take some time
26:07
off or looks like something different that's certainly something that I've had
26:10
to do at various points in my career.
26:13
Or even just shift the type of work I'm doing to make sure that
26:16
I'm really taking care of myself and practicing in an ethical way.
26:20
Laura: Absolutely.
26:21
I love that you brought this up.
26:23
Yeah, vacation sabbaticals.
26:25
I know several people that have taken sabbaticals and they've come back
26:28
rejuvenated and nourished really their emotional, mental, physical selves.
26:33
So I think that's really healthy.
26:35
One thing that I have had to do as well is really decrease the number of clients
26:40
that I am seeing in any given week.
26:42
I am pretty driven.
26:43
And so If a client wants to see me, I think I tend to be like, Oh yes.
26:48
Right.
26:48
And so just noticing.
26:50
My own boundary system so that I can also show up well in my personal life, right?
26:56
for my husband and daughter and friends and family and Permission to really
27:02
uncouple my worth from like the number of clients that I'm seeing And I think
27:08
it's also given me the ability to show up more fully for the clients that are
27:11
in my caseload and even noticing, like as I've taken on more responsibilities,
27:15
like from a business perspective, how that's impacting my capacity as well.
27:20
And those are all things that we have to be really intentional about noticing
27:23
because life moves so fast.
27:25
And I think as therapists we're part of that, right.
27:28
We've.
27:29
We're doing school drop offs, we're, helping kids with homework, we are
27:32
doing, going to doctor's appointments, trying to like, return Amazon
27:35
orders, doing all
27:36
the
27:36
things.
27:37
and going to the grocery store, right, and it can just, life
27:40
moves really fast, and I think it takes a lot of intention to do it.
27:45
Really notice our own window of tolerances, our own nervous system
27:49
and to get ongoing supervision So for those of you listening, I am still
27:54
in therapy and you know I don't say still in therapy as a bad thing.
27:57
Like I love
27:58
going to therapy and
27:59
I love it.
27:59
I love having someone point out, hey, like have you thought about this?
28:04
And Yeah, it's cool.
28:05
My therapist and I have even talked about like being colleagues in
28:08
the community and how that impacts our therapeutic relationship.
28:12
And I also do ongoing supervision.
28:14
I don't have to anymore.
28:15
Once you get your license, you don't necessarily have to do ongoing
28:19
supervision, but I really value someone else's input on my cases.
28:23
And it's a way to, like, check myself, if you
28:26
will, like lovingly, right?
28:28
Like, Hey, am I on the right path with this person?
28:31
And so those two things are just really pivotal for me.
28:34
And they're really, I cherish both of those things that I do consistently.
28:39
And I think they hopefully help me continue like learning and growing.
28:43
And we don't want to get complacent with our growth,
28:45
right.
28:46
Even if the fear, I think you've been in the field almost double the amount that I
28:50
Amber: So long, it makes me feel so old.
28:52
Laura: yeah.
28:52
Amber: years.
28:53
20
28:53
Laura: I know.
28:54
It's amazing.
28:55
What a gift to so many people you have been.
28:57
I just celebrated my 10 years in the field, Mark in August.
29:00
And so it, yeah it's just such a thing to celebrate.
29:03
And also we have to keep ourselves well and healthy so that we can
29:06
show up well for our clients.
29:08
Amber: Yeah,
29:08
one of my colleagues, she says, we can't get crispy, I'm not getting burnt out, or
29:13
she's having a day and needs to step out.
29:15
She's like, I'm just feeling a little crispy.
29:16
I need to go for a walk.
29:18
and I love that because it's so easy for that to happen.
29:21
And,
29:21
a little bit about my story and, Having to drastically shift my focus in my career.
29:26
about four years ago when we experienced a trauma with one of my children, and
29:32
it's wild because sometimes we're not even aware in ourselves what is coming up.
29:35
At the time I was mostly doing equine therapy.
29:38
And what I started to notice in session is that the horse was attuning to me.
29:41
and not my client.
29:43
And I was like, okay, this is some really important information, and so had to
29:46
make a shift of primarily seeing clients individually to moving more into a
29:51
management pouring into clinicians role.
29:54
So I think it looks different.
29:55
If I look over the last 20 years there are so many ebbs and flows of ways that
29:59
I've needed to diversify my caseload or step away and do something a little
30:02
different because we want to last, we want to be in this for the long haul
30:07
and help as many people as we can.
30:10
Laura: Yeah.
30:10
Yeah.
30:11
And we certainly, God forbid, do not want to become
30:13
jaded or burnt out, or we don't want to just treat all clients the
30:19
same.
30:20
Right.
30:20
And I think that can become from that can come from a place of burnout or jadedness.
30:25
Right.
30:26
And we don't want to become cynical.
30:28
This world is harsh and there's pain and suffering.
30:30
And, We hold so much.
30:32
And so I do think just paying attention to our own selves is so, so important.
30:38
Amber: Absolutely.
30:39
Laura: Yeah.
30:40
Well, thank you so much for your time, Amber.
30:42
I would love to have you back.
30:44
Yeah.
30:44
It's been so fun just to chat with you.
30:46
And it's so just delightful for me to connect with people in the community.
30:51
And so I really am grateful for you and for your time.
30:55
I would love to close with an affirmation and homework, but before we do that,
30:59
how can our listeners find you?
31:01
Amber: Yeah.
31:01
So I am currently the executive director of Astor Springs
31:04
Residential and Outpatient.
31:06
So we support the whole continuum of care from intensive outpatient, partial
31:10
hospitalization, and residential.
31:12
So if you go to our website, astrosprings.
31:14
com, you can find us there.
31:16
Our admissions number is also on the website.
31:18
So if you are a client needing additional support, happy to meet with you and
31:22
give you a tour, connect you to care.
31:25
That's one of my favorite things to do with someone in recovery is to meet
31:27
with clients who are considering it and to walk them through that journey.
31:32
So website, I don't really have Instagram anymore, not really on socials anymore,
31:37
but Astor Springs is the best way to find me and would love to connect
31:40
with colleagues or potential clients.
31:42
Laura: Thank you so much.
31:44
Well, would you like to close with either our homework or an affirmation?
31:49
Amber: Sure.
31:50
I will share one of my favorite quotes that I try to ascribe to,
31:54
and that is pay attention to what brings you joy and do more of that.
31:58
So
32:00
Laura: I love that.
32:01
Amber: yeah,
32:01
Laura: that.
32:02
I feel like that's a two for one.
32:03
I'm like thinking of like shampoo and conditioner that are like two,
32:06
Amber: I love that.
32:07
Laura: It's like that is both like the homework and the
32:09
affirmation.
32:10
Amber: what's bringing you joy and are you doing those
32:11
Laura: Yeah.
32:12
Yeah.
32:13
What's bringing you joy?
32:14
And there's so much that you could expand on, right?
32:16
Like what environments do you feel joy in?
32:19
So that is both an affirmation and homework.
32:21
So I love
32:21
it.
32:21
Thank you so
32:22
much.
32:23
Well, thanks you all for listening to this episode of the becoming anchored podcast.
32:27
We will see you next time.
32:28
Thanks.
32:29
Amber: Thanks.
32:29
Bye.