Latest / Microphone Monkeys / ** SPECIAL ** Restoring the Status of the New Hampshire LP with Jeremy Kauffman

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** SPECIAL ** Restoring the Status of the New Hampshire LP with Jeremy Kauffman · Microphone Monkeys

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: This is a Liberty Craft Media Special.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, is this Randy?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this is this is Trip, yeah.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's Randy, and I'm sorry, I am the one that screwed up.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: I had uh I had my usually we're calling out instead of having calling in, so I had my my uh phone not programmed quite correctly.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want everybody to know who this is, and this is the infamous, and not to be confused with any other uh Kaufman's, this is Jeremy Kaufman.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing, buddy?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's great to be on with you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to insist that I take some blame as well, but I'm glad that that we're connected.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we'll we'll we'll just all share the R team together.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but it's still great to have you in.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: We were just about to talk about the cinema, but we'll talk about you instead.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we just had our 2026 national convention, and there was sort of a left-wing takeover.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Evan McMahon became chair, and uh this is uh the first action they took as the LNC was to annihilate the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, uh 10 counties in New Hampshire and hundreds of activists in a retroactive retaliatory move.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: There were two LNC members, uh Austin and Shaw, that brought up an investigative committee amendment that was completely shot down.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know Susan Hogarth also uh voted no.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it is the first time in 54 years the Libertarian Party has done this.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that uh this is basically the most active state, New Hampshire, on social media.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: They have like three times the followers of Texas and Tennessee and other states by an order of magnitude.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you guys uh updated everything on your website the other day.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: What are the updates or what's the current uh situation with how New Hampshire is uh reacting?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's an unfortunate situation.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I do think the root of it is what you said, which is the Libertarian Party seems to be controlled by people who are are pretty left-wing.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this hive mind among people on the left where they can't encounter or engage with certain types of right-wing thought.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I don't I don't actually see these people as my enemies.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they've kind of chosen to make me one, in which case, of course, I will fight you for what I believe in.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the New Hampshire movement's a little bit different.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: We have this free state movement here.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: We have uh, I mean, I I think it's the most successful libertarian movement in the country, you know, not trying to drag South Carolina.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great state too, but we have uh Rothbardi and ANCAP, who is the House Majority Leader.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's likely to be Speaker of the House next year.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have people in the Senate.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we are, you know, uh we have radical school choice, uh, incredible gun freedoms, food freedoms, you know, we're leading in all these areas.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're cutting taxes, you know, year after year after year.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's led to, you know, people kind of being bolder.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: LPH is a little bit loud, it's a little bit offensive at times, but it's wholly within the libertarian sphere, and it plays an important role in the overall sort of ecosystem of institutions that exists here.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't always toe the LP line.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the LP likes to play things in in a certain way, uh, but we're unequivocally libertarians.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wouldn't say we're right-wing libertarians, but we're unequivocally libertarians.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, we believe in all the core libertarian ideas about things being voluntary and government being as small as possible.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, uh, if we can get all the way to nothing, that'd be great, but certainly as small as we can make it, you know, and and we're uh, you know, so this is what we believe.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but what it really was, you know, I think they they made it about this Trump endorsement that was done by a completely different leadership team.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we actually passed a resolution last night to make it clear that we don't stand by that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think uh really it's about the way that we talk on social media.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so this is uh an attempt of LP National to be policing the speech of all 50 states in terms of how they attempt to make their affiliates grow.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a very bad precedent.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're doing in New Hampshire is clearly working for us.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, we're the largest on social media.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think Tennessee is now in second ahead of Texas, but we're still more than twice the size of Tennessee.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Tennessee's on our side, by the way.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we have the most Libertarian Party members per capita of any state by more than 10%.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so it's like what we're doing is working, and they don't like that it's working, and so they do what leftists do is they ban and they censor rather than engaging in discourse or communication.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: At first, I wanted to go through a bird's eye view of everything and your personal history.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Where did you move from?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Was it Philadelphia or New York?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I lived in Philadelphia before.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have been to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first time I was on a on a plane in my life, so I have a very strong memory of going down to uh I apologize.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: As a 10-year-old, I had a great time.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I saw, you know, you know.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was watching Bob Murphy's podcast when he interviewed you, and you mentioned Ayn Rand.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Was uh was Ayn Rand your first libertarian influence, or what what were your influences early on?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first probably book I could point to.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was on the internet from an early era.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was on the internet in like 1991, 1992, when I was like seven and eight years old, and I was a kind of precocious kid who started engaging, not like I was talking to the adults at that age, but the internet was like much more libertarian in that in that the early era of the internet was very libertarian.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I was exposed to libertarian arguments and libertarian thinking.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not I couldn't point to like specific people, but like, you know, even like where I heard of the Free State Project originally was an old uh tech website called Slashdot, uh, you know, was the first time I ever read about the Free State, you know, project.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was I was I heard all these arguments that were almost certainly synthesized from other libertarian thinkers, you know, just being given by other people on the internet.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I did read Rand when I was 16 or 17, and I definitely liked that.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I read um one of the other earlier books I read was Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman, um, and that was on you know economics, which also, you know, I was reading this stuff as a teenager, you know, and and so this stuff clicked with me from a pretty young age.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I heard on another podcast, uh, I'm one of the only atheists in the South Carolina Libertarian Party, and I saw that you were an atheist and didn't know if that was uh an Ayn Rand influence from when you were a teenager.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I've I'm I'm I'm very interested in what's true.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've been interested in science for a long time.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I got I did get a degree in computer science, but I also got a degree in physics, and physics is what I thought I would do for uh you know a long time.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And my interest in physics was, well, let's I want to understand how the universe works.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want to understand how things, you know, work in this real way.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do struggle believing um certain religious uh beliefs, but I've also come to really appreciate what religion offers society.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not, I'm not um, you know, I've I'm I'm I'm not like really a loud atheist.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know if I would be considered an atheist versus an agnostic, those labels don't mean uh you know too much to me.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, to me, there's no explanation out there.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, part of the reason I got into physics again was I wanted to understand the truth.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's no answer in science, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: The most fundamental question, why is there something and not nothing?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is not answered by science.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that science doesn't have the answer.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: There's no answer because it's all done with mirrors.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that might be more of a philosophical David Hume sort of thing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it did stand out that uh I guess it's physicist Jeremy Kaufman.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Were you uh double major?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I was a double major in uh in physics and computer science, yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, incredible.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: So uh people will not have you confused with Andy Kaufman, who is Latka Gravis on taxi.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, we we we have we have some similarities too.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I play a little bit of a character at times to accomplish an end.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not not just uh I want to be clear, I'm never doing stuff just to bother people.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's always a point to what I'm doing.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not there to just be a character or to do a comedy routine.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm ultimately attempting to engage in persuasion.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've learned you're you're interesting.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you make your speech interesting.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: You you the things you do are are interesting.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're not uh for the type of education you have, which is very dry, uh you have a lot of personality and a lot of uh I I guess would say just humor.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um and you bring a lot of character to your speech.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's what makes it interesting, and it drives people to actually engage and listen to you.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's part of the whole state autonomy thing.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: New Hampshire and Maine and Tennessee are gonna be one way, Indiana and Louisiana are gonna be another way, and you don't uh micromanage them.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like other old farts, I get up at 4 a.m.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: in the morning.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's the P.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I um I listen to uh Twitter.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: I want I love the LPNH posts because it kind of gets the blood going in the morning, you know.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's not tame, it's wild.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well that's right.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we're part of the coalition here.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I will say the movement here is very Christian.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like the LP other LP and H I I people think I make all the posts.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I make you know probably under 50% of the posts.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so it's a coalition here.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just me.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a lot of Christians in the coalition.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: The account has been posting, you know, a number of Christian takes during um you know, during Pride Month, which I I I fully support.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I haven't seen a non-Christian society be better than a Christian society, you know.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So as an empiricist, it seems better for me to live in a Christian society than uh, you know, than not.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: I did want to circle back to the Free State Project and LP New Hampshire and everything, but I wanted to bring up uh library odyssey and top score.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Was uh top score the first business you created?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And is that the one you uh I did.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first business uh that was uh somewhat successful or reasonably successful.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I've been, you know, I've kind of been an I I didn't know that entrepreneurship was a thing.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is something that uh like it wasn't presented to me on the menu of options.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I had to kind of figure it out for myself.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh, you know, I think actually there probably is some room for improvement in terms of how kids can be educated and taught that uh, you know, hey, you can just make stuff happen, you know, you can just do things yourself.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I had a not natural entrepreneurial streak, like I was making money as a young kid.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I actually started my first business when I was 16 years old, um selling selling uh like MMO goods and all this stuff.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, but um uh I I I built um a software as a service company in my 20s.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I scaled it uh quite a bit and I later sold it, and then I did library and odyssey after that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the early days actually I was doing both of them concurrently, but uh I library was taking up all my brain power, so I I stepped away from the top score.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hoffman and I just all Hoffman and I did was cocaine and in uh pot, yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people were mocking me for the MMO thing, but I think if you have ever tried to l lead a guild raid, you know, you know that that takes real skill.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, on uh Free State Project, this is cool because it ties in.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I see in 2001 it was founded.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: In 2003, they picked New Hampshire.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: By 2016, they had uh 20,000 signers, and in 2018 you joined the board.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is uh is six thousand the modern number for how many people live there?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that number is uh pretty debated.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's undercounted.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um so my guess is that it's 10,000 or more, but uh it's very difficult to get an accurate.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that ties in with the foundational philosophical overall differences with other free uh with other states.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I noticed you've mentioned the concentration strategy because you have the free state project, and other historical examples such as the Amish, Mormons, Orthodox Hasidic Jews, early Zionist settlements, and how that uh affects their strategies in that area.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: What is your overall approach and a str and strategy versus other states like Tennessee because you have the free state project?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: We the movement started much more agnostic about how it would succeed.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in the early days, we even had people getting elected as Democrats.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think the Free State movement is kind of an exception to is it conquest second law, where everything gets left-wing if it's not explicitly right wing.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I think the movement here has actually drifted more right-wing because all of the success has happened inside of the Republican Party.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: The Republicans have been very welcoming to Free Staters coming in and running as Republicans.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's this partnership between sort of, and I want to be clear, we don't control the Republican Party.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: We're like a third to a half of it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: But there's this partnership between the Liberty Wing and the sort of non-Liberty wing.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: We do things that can be at times hard for libertarians who want to get things 100% their way and can be like ornery, but there's a lot of like behind the scenes cooperation where we're not getting what we want every term, but I I like to call it the liberty racket.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we make sure things move in the liberty direction at least a little bit.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully that continues to change the demographics of the state and the whole movement continues to accelerate.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, persuasion, this idea that we're going to persuade people into being libertarians, I don't want to talk people out of it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a valuable service to try, but I also think, again, like empirically, it hasn't really worked.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: But there are enough of us, there are millions of us across America and the world.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if millions of people have a belief set and they're willing to fight for it, they're generally able to get it.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the groups that you named uh are examples of this.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: David Friedman, who I'm a big fan of, likes to say that the Amish are the most successful anarchists in the world.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because they don't have to do the draft and they don't have to pay into Social Security.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they got those carve outs from the federal government by standing as a bloc and refusing to give in.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Are the Amish and like the Mennonites the only exception?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the other ones are on social media.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know all the exceptions off the top of my head.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I just know that the Amish are an exception.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: When when I was uh the vice chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus, one of my friends was a guy named Aaron Day, and he was from New Hampshire, a very dynamic person.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: Is he a part of your movement?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron is a a freestater.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron and I would have our disagreements, although I don't think he's a bad guy.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, Aaron, Aaron has uh very very much, you know, kind of gone his own way, and he hasn't always embraced the idea of working within the Republican Party.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: He feels the Republican Party is not giving the Liberty Wing enough.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he thinks, you know, we shouldn't be cooperating with them as much as we are.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: His big thing is medical freedom.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_04: Medical freedom.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we are good on medical, uh we are good on medical freedom.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're continuing to get better.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: We just passed all this great right to try legislation uh so that you'll be able to take innovative medical treatments, you have more control and choice over the types of medicines that you take.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh our the vaccine requirements for kids are you know weak or getting weaker um in terms of what requirements there are with you know with schools.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, I think this is an area we're doing we're doing well in.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my dad's from Manchester, uh, New Hampshire.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is uh New Hampshire overall more of a blue state or more purple?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or what where does it lean overall?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I would say it's purple.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting phenomenon where the entire state government is controlled by Republicans.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a Republican Senate, we have a Republican House, we have a Republican governor, and we also have this thing called the Executive Council, which is part of the executive branch.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's all Republicans.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: The our federal delegates are blue.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: They are Democrats.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Funnily enough, while you mentioned Aaron Day, uh Aaron Day is actually kind of the reason why we don't have a Republican senator.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this is an area where I think, you know, I think Aaron makes a mistake here, not trying to say he's a bad guy, but you know, Aaron, Aaron went out of his way and sunk a bunch of money, you know, running as a third party, and we lose a Republican Senate race by, you know, 500 votes or a thousand votes or something like this.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just not clear to me that the Democrat is better.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's not me saying the Republican is great, but I, you know, since we mostly get stuff done with the Republican Party, I'm interested in cooperating with them.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not because I like everything that they do, but if they're willing to pass our you know more radical bills, then you know I can hold my nose and vote for a moderate.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's something that every third party has to worry about.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna split the vote and get the enemy in there?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's definitely interesting.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And this idea I I've gotten more skeptical as I've gotten older.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is a change in my own perspective.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I can un I certainly can understand the other side of this one, but I've this idea that they'll like learn and adopt, you know, when Aaron ran this race ten years ago, the idea was, oh, you know, the Republicans will learn from this and they'll make sure not to, you know, piss off the Liberty Wing in the future.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's not clear to me that this happened.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not clear you can occasionally take your ball and go home, but if you try to take your ball and go home all of the time, yeah, they're not, you know, they're you're not you're not gonna be welcome in the coalition anymore.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think this is something that libertarians struggle with.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've uh this has been an unpopular take, but I'll give it here.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I love Massey.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wish he had won.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think he did a little bit too much of this, and it cost him, you know, and and that's not an endorsement of it costing him.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be clear.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and like I would have no problem saying Aaron Day would be better in the Senate than Kelly Ayatt.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not I this isn't anti-the spirit of these people.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's it can be a bad strategy that backfires.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um Nicholas Fuente is doing the same thing nowadays.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: He's telling everybody he's a hard right.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think this is stupid.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: He's telling everybody to vote Democrat.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think this doesn't work.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't think this works as a strategy.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I understand the frustration it comes from, but I don't think it works.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Before we go to LP and H, I wanted to mention some of the uh stats on New Hampshire.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: So Cato has New Hampshire ranked as the number one state for freedom.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: There's the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance that gives updates on legislators.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's uh 40 uh free state legislators, a hundred liberty legislators.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Jason Osborne, he's a Rothbardian, he's the House majority leader.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh New Hampshire has the most machine gun ownership per capita.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: They have uh liberalized knife laws, there's been gun law nullification, seatbelt laws, vaccines, home food sales, home brewing, even like uh auto insurance exemptions.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: What's the case for someone outside of New Hampshire to move to New Hampshire?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_04: Happiness is a warm machine gun.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I I think there's a number of cases.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I actually, this is uh certainly I think on the margin we're the freest state.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so if that is what it's about for you, I think New Hampshire offers that.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: It might sound weird for me to say it, but I actually don't think that's the best reason.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, on this we're we're still subject to federal law.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: On the scale of freedom that exists in the world or in America, it's true that New Hampshire is more free, but you know, in terms of what's possible, you know, maybe we're 5% closer to the finish line.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're still pretty far away.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're you know, a lot of the bad aspects of government still exist here, and I wouldn't I wouldn't want to be on here and lie about that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think the two best things that we have here is one, there's this movement that's actually making progress.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where, you know, like I feel like every day I wake up with a spring in my step that like I, you know, we're we're we're advancing down the field.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a much different psychological feeling than feeling like you're losing all the time.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the happiest times in my life have been when I am, you know, sort of moving positively towards this transcendental or like this goal in the distance, you know, and I'm making progress towards that day after day.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, often when you catch the thing, you're not as happy as when you were chasing the thing, you know, and so there's a lot of satisfaction that comes from this feeling that we're making progress in this positive way.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are setbacks at times too, but on the whole, I feel like we're making progress.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Any average day, we're making progress.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing Yeah, go ahead.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, I'll go back to the other one.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Say what you want to say about it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So basically, in sociology, they have organizational theory, and South Carolina is not the same as New Hampshire, but it seems like the Libertarian Party does what the Reform Party did and the Green Party does, where you're basically doing everything backwards, or almost like an overpowered HOA.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you have all this administrative labor.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And no attention or influence.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And historical examples where they've been successful left and right, like abolitionism, suffrage, prohibition, they start with having influence and then they scale it up to organizations.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then the final part is electoral politics.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do that backwards, you end up where we're spending all this time, money, energy, labor, and you're getting like 0.7% of the vote.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's only recently been a political party.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: For as most of its history has been a literary society.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: You're talking about when you have Republicans and you have similar ideas and you do coalitions and you're nudging them, like uh in your speech, your chair speech, where you're talking about achievable goals and not having these unreasonable unicorn fantasy uh goals, and then you spend all this time, energy, and labor into the Trevor Burrus.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Working with Republicans in South Carolina is a losing proposition.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: We have the largest herd of rhinos this side of Africa in South Carolina.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: And they populate our state legislature.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is what makes it hard.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you you reference what I said in my speech, and I'll repeat it a little bit here, which is you have to find tangible goals that you can make progress towards.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: If your movement is making progress, then status inside of the movement can be awarded based off of the ability to make progress against your enemies.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not making progress, status inside of the movement comes from being the most pure or from punching your own teammates.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And yet this is what a lot of we see inside of the LP is there's not an ability to defeat the enemy.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so people end up playing these status games inside of the movement to be, you know, to be king of the theater kid club because that's all that's achievable.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these people can't go out and make the work, they can't achieve their views in the world, but they can be the most pure, perfect libertarian inside of the Libertarian Party.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so more people end up playing the second game than the first game, and that is you know how a movement kind of ends up dying.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: What version would you do in another state like Tennessee?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I so you can either try to find specific issues where there's a lot of buy into a particular issue and you can potentially get Republicans and Democrats on your side.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it's like in other states, but you know, at least here we represent a block of people.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: That block of people can come out to testify, they can, you know, make posts on social media and so on.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so the politicians recognize that there's this block of sort of rabid supporters that either will be with them or against them, you know, depending on the stances that they take.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and politicians, a lot of politicians aren't uh uh ideologues the way that we we are, you know, where we have genuine philosophies.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they are populists uh you know who want to be popular, who wanted to be elected student council, who want to say what will get them elected.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they sense that there's this energy, they'll follow it, you know, um, for better or worse.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is what's bad about politicians to some degree, but you know, you can also take advantage of it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to mention God I wanted to mention one other thing from the previous answer, so from the previous answer about why to live in New Hampshire, because I actually think this is the best reason, and so I did want to mention it on the show, which is you know, I feel that our broader culture, um, I've heard it called like a monoculture, that that this monoculture is subsuming everything, even even some of the islands that you mentioned earlier, like the you know, I'm not an expert on the Mormon religion, but my understanding is like Mormons are getting you know more sucked into TikTok uh and having less children, you know, um, and and so we need resistance to this.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I want my values, I'm not, unlike a unlike some boomers, I'm not agnostic about whether my values propagate to my children.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I believe my values are correct, uh, at least directionally, and I want them, I want them to succeed in the world.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want to pass them on to my kids.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so the climate for raising your children here, where you can have not just the values inside your own household, but you can have peer groups for your kids, schools for your kids, where there's you know, aligned values, aligned teachers.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: This to me is a really, really big thing that's hard to get elsewhere.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's some people who moved out here recently who are you know very successful entrepreneurs out of Silicon Valley, very wealthy.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they came to New Hampshire because they said there's nowhere you can't buy this.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not you can't you can't buy it anywhere else.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And and that to me is both it's important for our future.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't a battle that's gonna go on.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think we're gonna be done this battle in a deck.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, sounds like you'd be a good spokesman for the Judeo's Christian ethic.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I I'm I'm supportive of that uh you know idea.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we have I I it's a majority Christian movement, but we definitely have a diversity of uh opinions.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: We even have some Norse pagans, you know, who I uh I think are perfectly compatible.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let's hear it from front of you.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, transitioning to LPH, I saw in 2021 in March, I'm guessing it was like a Mises takeover of uh LPH, and then by June, uh Bishop Henchman, who was the national chair, did some sort of secret registration of another New Hampshire party, and then he ended up resigning.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: What's what's the whole situation around that?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was the first uh the first battle, and we won that disaffiliation battle.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'll win this one too.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's that's correct.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I would say it was a little bit more complex than just Mises.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would say it was like a Mises and Free Stater Alliance.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I became aware, uh I a year or two prior to that, I donated my own money to uh I became I was like a major sponsor of the LPH convention, and I gave a short speech and talked to the members about like having LPH support the free state movement, and there was like shocking resistance to this.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know LPH that well.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've so I've lived in New Hampshire for around 10 or 11 years, so I'd maybe been here for three years when I did this, and I wasn't paying a ton of attention to LPH, but I thought for sure, like this is the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they're gonna be friendly towards the free state movement, and I came to them like, you know, how could we cooperate?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: How could we work together?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there was like a shocking resistance to this, like, oh, you know, we don't want to work with Republicans.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, dude, we have this is a this guy went to the Mises school.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: He considers himself an anarcho-capitalist.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's he could quote Rothbard off the top of his head, you're you're saying you don't want to support him because he's a Republican.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like this, I you know, this was an inconceivable idea to me.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so the resistance that I got there like kind of animated me.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: I saw the Mises thing happening, I went to Mises leadership, I said, let's work together.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I I gave some money to Mises, so I don't want to like say I was like not a Mises guy, but I was coming at this from the free state angle from day one.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so both Mises brought in people through Dave Smith, people I had never met, so I want to give them a lot of credit for turning people out and that, but I also brought in a bunch of people uh, you know, from my network, and we came in and and we, you know, took over LPH in early 2021.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we immediately started tweeting and posting in a way that they didn't like.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so they they took their first shot, they did it very sloppily.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was both morally wrong and possibly illegal.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Bisser Henchman had to resolve uh had to resign.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: He resigned rather than get investigated for what he did.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this one is also gonna backfire on them.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think they did it in a legal manner, and I don't think they did it in a way that will help the organization succeed, you know, and I think it's gonna uh I think it's gonna be yet another mistake uh from the behalf of LP.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, talking about social media, you mentioned persuasion, getting attention, using humor in a strategic, tactical way.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was looking through ChatGPT and they had obvious left-wing groups like PETA and Code Pink do things to get attention, and it's part of our culture having sort of blue comedy like Ari Shafir and South Park and Louis C.K.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what is the philosophy behind how you use social media?
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I want to be I for uh and we potentially made mistakes over the years, so I wouldn't even defend I wouldn't defend 100% of anything I've even said, let alone I I couldn't do it for myself, so I yeah, I was gonna say you'd impress me if you could.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I certainly can't do it for the party.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, look, I I you know I said earlier we talked about entrepreneurship.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I apply the ideas of entrepreneurship to politics, which means you're performing experiments, you see what works, you see what doesn't, and that means you're gonna sometimes perform an experiment like, well, that was a bad idea.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's a Thursday.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: And tying into the uh the FBI video, which is completely insane, and you did that entire thing just perfectly.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's an example where like, uh, and by the way, uh it's not LPMH is never uh we don't know why the FBI was there.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: They never uh said an LPMH takes the policy of not disclosing who made specific uh tweets, uh, which is a policy I'm gonna stand by on the show.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, it's nice, it but it gives us because look, it really again, that's not me saying I did them all.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: There really are that I the people think I made ones that I genuinely did not make.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh you know, that's an example of one where, like, look, that that showed people we can debate what led up to that, but that was an incident that demonstrated how you can stand up to the federal government.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: It helped grow my following and and uh to a substantial degree, uh, you know, helped me get on a whole bunch of shows, propagate the ideas, you know, and so that was one where I, you know, it it probably ended up working out for the best in terms of the end result.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think, you know, in terms of what we want to achieve, like I want to signal bravery that I'm not gonna compromise, that I'm willing to fight for what I you know believe in, and that is even if I'm a little bit of a caricature of it at times, uh, but that you know, I'm gonna go to the mat and I'm gonna fight.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna be a coward.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna adhere to you know what the regime considers.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to make a coalition and let everybody like you and oh, don't offend them.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna have to be nice.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we maybe we should strategize about this and sit back and think and not do it right away.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: Let's all talk about let's have a let's have a conference about this.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: I like where you and Tom Woods talked about the future of the LP.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_04: That was very interesting, very enlightening conversation.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's tough to know what you do with this thing because and look, the entire reason I even got involved in LPH is like, look, I recognize as someone who isn't bad at marketing that the thing that's called the Libertarian Party is going to have an outsized impact on what people think the word libertarian means.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we understand the distinction of big L versus small L, but that distinction is beyond like half of a half of the entire population already.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I mean so we we all agree all political parties, including our own, suck.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah Well, you obviously have a very sophisticated audience, yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to go into the specifics of the chair run you did and some of the incidents.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: So in your speech, you said the LP is gone 55 years and has never won a competitive head-to-head race.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: They burn millions of dollars, thousands of hours, give false hope to everyone.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned Project Archimedes that Doswalk here was part of.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the New Hampshire strategy works, your team players, uh, you need to stop telling people they're gonna win the next election and burn them out.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: They need to set reasonable goals that you can actually achieve, achieve them and grow.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when you mean small goals, small achievements, do you mean like when New Hampshire passes gun nullification laws or making coalitions, or what do you mean?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that your guys will feel like is a victory.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you guys, you know, there's a guy like a lot here in New Hampshire who says whoever's having the most fun wins.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's something to this, you know, like people don't want to come and feel like they're losing and that all this sucks.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so find something that you can achieve, you can feel honestly.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully it's a real achievement, but even just feeling like you achieve something will at least help you grow.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like so I you know, I don't know what's feasible.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on what issues are animating people there.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but like something that's animating people that you can feel like you've achieved, and that will then people will want to bring in, you know, their friends or people, they'll post pictures of social media about their victories, and like you this is this is what will bring people into your you know into your what happened with this office you shared with SARW?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a story for people all know.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh I was I will I was trolling him a little bit there, but with again with the point.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not a false it's not a false story.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I will say I don't generally I may be provocative, but I don't generally say things that aren't true.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the I I this it was such a disillusionment to me because like look, I was I was an internet libertarian before I moved to New Hampshire.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was not actively in politics.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was persuaded by the ideas via books, and you know, there were some weird forums I was on on the internet where everyone was very smart.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like not checked into LP stuff, you know.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I part of why I came to New Hampshire was it was I was reaching the time in my life when I wanted to have a family, and I thought that this was a good place to do it, and it has been.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I came here, I moved to New Hampshire with no kids.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have four kids now.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, and uh, and and so that was why I ended up here.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've been here for a couple of years, maybe two years, and I was uh I had an office for library, and Nick Sarmark was moving here.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know anything about him.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't pay attention again, I was not paying attention to LP stuff.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh well, he's the chair of the Libertarian Party.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: This must be a great guy.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's the chair of the National Party at the time.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he was he was the chair of the National Libertarian Party, and he moved to uh you know he moved to New Hampshire and I had a couple of uh extra offices in my office space.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I said, sure, well, why don't you lunch an office?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we would hang out during lunch.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've probably played ping pong against Nick Starbuck at least 20 times, you know, um, and we would talk about stuff.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And like I slowly realized I was like, this guy is not the type of libertarian that I am but I didn't know it going, I didn't know it going into it.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, he was just so and this was of course during like so actually I'm sorry, I must have been in New Hampshire for three or four years, because this was the summer of Floyd, uh was um, you know, was was one of the real was when a lot of the disagreements started happening.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like this guy's like really woke.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know I don't agree with him.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he didn't want to engage in this stuff publicly as well, which is what I was asking him.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, look, I think you know, at a minimum, the Libertarian Party should be showcasing, you know, both sides of the debate.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: It shouldn't just be on the woke side of this stuff.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh it was I offered him something like$10,000.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'll make a donation of$10,000 to the Libertarian Party if you and James Lindsay, you know, have a public conversation.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I have more mixed feelings about James Lindsay than I did in 2020.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, he was he was uh he was on the he was very much one of the best guys fighting this stuff in 2020.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, Nick declined that.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I just learned more and more about the LP from him firsthand, and it was not uh it definitely was not like my school of libertarianism.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and and part of the problem with these people, I've seen this here, like the the the left wing is just much more universalist about things, and so they struggle to even cooperate with people who don't have their own universalistic, you know, take on all of this stuff.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because to me, if you're a left winger, if some of these people like like I like to say that Chase Oliver would be the best Democrat, like if he was if Chase Oliver was in the Senate, he'd be the best Democrat in the Senate, right?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't have a problem saying this, you know, even as someone who's not a huge fan of this guy, he would be the best Democrat in the Senate.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: So back in 2008, when I joined the LP, when I was a teenager, Bob Barr got 0.4% of the vote.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when I just started getting active the last two years, Chase Oliver 16 years later got exactly 0.4% of the vote.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now on the convention, what was the whole issue with the sign theft and taking materials off your booth?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know they took your vertical sign at one point and they were taking huge handfuls of uh materials meant to be given out from your booth.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: What what happened with that whole situation?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so there's there's sort of two separate incidents.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: One was although they ended up involving the same person, but that only came to a head like later that we knew it was the same person.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: So on the Saturday night of the convention, a woman and a man were captured on security footage taking our state affiliate banner and maybe some other things, but definitely the state affiliate banner, and uh putting it in the they took it and destroyed it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and when I attempted, we didn't get that footage until maybe 3 p.m.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: on Sunday.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: When I attempt to bring it to the floor, they kicked me out.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so and they didn't let they didn't, and another member of our party also attempted to bring it to the floor, and they didn't allow it to be heard.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: So this was the LNC, in my opinion, collaborating to not let evidence of an unequivocal theft.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had security footage from the hotel that had been gotten by the CTO of the Libertarian Party.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: He was a neutral party, but he wasn't a delegate, he wasn't allowed to introduce it.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: A delegate has to go up and and and basically introduce it.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't allow this to happen.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this is what's crazy to me for these left-wing people is having certain social beliefs or being willing to say certain words means that you can violate their property rights.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like these people are not nearly as you know, they like to say it's just the nap, but they obviously uh you know don't consider an aggression to violate the property rights of people if they're you know if they say no no.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh on the LNC vote, so on May 25th, uh there was a vote on disaffiliating.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: There was 15 for, two voted against, and one abstained.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Shaw brought up a um amendment to create an investigative committee.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone completely eject uh rejected it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: The amendment was rejected.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was no due process, no notice, no chance to respond.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the only time in 54 years that they've ever done that.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Every single other example, such as New Mexico and Massachusetts, it was the state disaffiliating from national, not the other way around.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: What what happened there?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the way they did it, again, they can't.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is our arguments are good.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: We have reasons that we do what we do.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: That when people hear them, they're like, oh, that makes sense.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: That scares them, right?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are effectively saying we have a better way to accomplish the goals of this organization than you have.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: They are putting their roles in the organization above the goals of the organization.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: I forget the name of this.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the iron law of bureaucracy, which is the the people who value their position in the bureaucracy more than the goals of the organization inevitably succeed.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so over time, an organization or an institution ends up being captured by people who are good at manipulating or managing the bureaucracy rather than accomplishing the institution's purported goals.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we see this in all kinds of institutions, not just the LP, but they'll this is a great example of it, where they are optimizing for their positions against an entity that's good at accomplishing the institution's purported goals.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why they won't let our arguments be heard.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're not interested in engaging in an exchange of ideas.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: All they can do is taboo and block and ban, because uh when a lot of people hear their arguments and our arguments, they like ours.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: Jeremy uh mentioned that he had other commitments today, but I think you need to know that you have friends in low places.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we'd like to we'd like to tell you what we're doing right here.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's why they call it low country, South Carolina.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, look, I will tell you, there's a tremendous business opportunity for someone from South Carolina to come up here and open a great barbecue restaurant, okay?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have we have some, we don't have enough, okay?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a big, a big entrepreneurship opportunity for one of you guys to come up here and uh show us how it's done in uh in the Northeast.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and two things just to end this.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to pass a resolution in Ory County.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: I know Maine passed one already.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably gonna be hard at the state level in South Carolina, but I know Tennessee was uh indirectly supporting it.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And on your website you had over a thousand endorsements.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um on this rejected amendment, just to end it out, uh they rejected an investigation, uh committee giving any evidence.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: This was all over something from uh XCOM from two years ago.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: And the same people who are saying that theft doesn't violate the nonaggression principle are all looking the other way.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like your Twitter or your R to fear type trolling, but I think this is a due process issue.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, the whole point and philosophy of due process for over 2,000 years at Socrates is to protect the people you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hate, you despise, you disagree with, the people who are unpopular.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the exact people most likely to be denied it.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's classic examples of the ACLU in Skokie, Illinois, defending Nazi rallies in a town with Holocaust survivors.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Voltaire defended persecuted Protestants.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: John Adams defended British soldiers who attacked American colonists in the middle of the American Revolutionary War.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the classic libertarian position is to defend due process for people who are unpopular.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of a litmus test.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: And these people who are looking the other way or sitting on their hands, or some of them even supporting it, it is totally unacceptable.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this could absolutely happen to different counties and states in the future.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is total retaliation.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know your money has flown up over the past couple days.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Where can people go to support new actions?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, savelpnh.com has more details about the case, and we would love it if uh people could make a donation.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: We do plan on fighting legally.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: That was an excellent speech, by the way.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm or or talking about I'm gonna crib some of that probably in the future.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you completely.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're clearly a man of of similar spirit uh to myself and the people here, uh, you know, because I agree with everything you just said.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: We will be fighting it.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think um one of the things we're actually just starting, I should have gotten this going uh sooner, but I actually started this morning of getting people from aligned LPs who are in position of leadership there to uh getting them in a chat room to be drafting some of these resolutions.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have to agree with everything LPH said to say that you know states need to either both states need due process and uh states need to have autonomy to be doing their own messaging.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we do that is not the role of national to be telling states how to message.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is fine to have a problem with LPH endorsing Trump two years ago, but that was not current leadership.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're disaffiliating, you know, hundreds of members who don't endorse that action, the current XCOM doesn't endorse that action, so why are all these people being punished?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously not about Trump, it's about policing the affiliate speech, and this is something that should be offensive to uh you know, the the vast swaths of the Libertarian Party.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I want to be getting people who agree on that together, uh, whether they agree with LPH or not.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for coming on.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're definitely one of the biggest guests we've ever had, and uh hopefully in a few months we can have you back on to uh give us an update.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: We need a whole like South Carolina delegate trip up here.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you guys come up in a come up in a group and do a little like joint vacation and check out some of the things, you know, here, meet some of the people here, it'd be a really good time.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we if you said joint vacation, that that got Hoffman on the uh bus already.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: This has been uh Microphone Monkeys, and everybody's gonna be a little surprised because this is a little bit of an earlier release than normal.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: We will not have the regular uh Thursday drop uh for our listeners that that catch up with us.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh just to let you know, in this month of June, we all have a tin cup in hands because we're trying to get as much money as we can uh to uh satisfy our habits here at Liberty Crack Media.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_03: So if you can go to our website, LibertyCrackmedia.com and drop into that uh menu button, grab uh that Project 2027, and that's what we call it Project 2027.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: We're trying to raise enough funds to uh kind of get us into uh next year so we can uh keep growing our our our podcasts and our radio station and everything else that we've got going on.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: And uh also in this month, we are going to be having a live uh mini YouTube marathon on the 14th.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: I know everybody's gonna be having their uh flag day trees decorated and the flag day uh presence under the tree.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: But if you have a few moments, it's gonna be from 10 o'clock in the morning till 6 p.m.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: on YouTube.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we're gonna have the microphone monkeys, we're gonna have the hoff, uh, we're gonna have a bunch of special guests.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: We're hopefully gonna have a lot of fun.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um who knows, maybe even uh this fella Jeremy Kaufman will call in and uh and raise some hell with us.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: That would be great.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I just wanted to also ask, it's uh savelpnhnation.com.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, just save lpnh.com.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Save lpnh.com.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: You folks, you don't have to remember it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: You can go to our show notes and we're gonna have that link right there.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: And again, thank you.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this has been another wonderful, exciting, different type of microphone monkeys.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: Got the gold, no taxes to need, free to speak, and free to trade.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: Markets have no need for the microphone.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: People say they wear the management trees.