Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 584 | How modern ABM works: from account selection to execution

Transcript

Ep. 584 | How modern ABM works: from account selection to execution · The Prompt

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This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
0:04
pressing B2B go to market challenges.
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Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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Well, hello everyone and welcome back to the latest in the
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award-winning on Based podcast series.
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I'm your host, Paul Gibson. And as you know, we always look
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for hot topics to discuss and today is no exception.
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I'm excited that today I'm talking with Katie Skein, Senior
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ABM Manager at Global Relay, who for those who don't know are
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market leading providers of end to end communication compliance
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solutions. That's about for this early in
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the day. Katie, you're here to discuss
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modern ABM practices, so thanks very much for joining us.
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Excited to get you on the. Show, thank you.
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Thanks for having me. I listened to the podcast so
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it's great to be on. Oh, brilliant.
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Always good to get listeners on as well.
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So before we get into the topic of the podcast, which is really
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interesting one, I always start with the same simple question if
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I can. Katie, can you share your
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journey to where you are today? I suppose what led you to focus
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on the practice of modern ABM? I have had quite varied
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background, a career almost now 14 years in marketing.
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And you know, in preparation for this, I was looking back at the
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details and it's it's just really having that reflection is
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having that moment of reflection really interesting.
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So I started my career, one of my earliest roles in a medical
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devices company, a very, very big corporate going into the
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international marketing team. And you don't know what you're
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walking into at that age when you go and hits for a corporate.
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And it was such a fascinating first role getting exposure to
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various different parts of marketing, you know,
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videographers, graphic designers, etcetera, everyone
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incredibly talented what they did.
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And I think going in there sort of sparked a real curiosity for
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me and different areas of marketing.
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And going on from there, I landed in, found myself an
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agency world. So I've spent the vast majority
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of my career in agencies and about 10 years I spent just just
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about and it was in the last maybe 7 that I focused on ABM in
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one way or another. I think we all know anyone
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that's listening to the podcast when our ABM has been around for
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quite a long time, but probably in the guise of different
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things, whether it's enterprise marketing rocketing or you know,
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those types of naming conventions.
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And then more recently been an agency that really specialized
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in ABM and they called it out for what it was.
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You know, it's very, very specific in the work they did
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and they were agent 3. They've just rebranded, I
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believe to Pretzel. So great agency name and that
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was a real again, sort of sparked me and propelled me into
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ABM further than I have been before, being so specialized in
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the work that they did. And after my sort of stint, I
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realized it was my time to try again in house and take what I'd
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learn. And I think when you go into
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agency, especially earlier and on in your career, you on a
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personal level go into hyper growth mode because there's just
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so much to do. You're not just dealing with one
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CMS, you're dealing with the three or four clients.
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They've all got their CMS in different tools.
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You're learning Salesforce, Oracle, different marketing
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automation tools because you've got a range of clients.
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You're not just one company. And so for you as an individual,
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you go through this vast growth in a such a short amount of
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time. And I'm so ready to take that in
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house and just focus on one, I say 1 objective, but one brand,
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one corporate company entity that we could really dig deep,
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especially with AB and B and data-driven, really understand
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the insights better. And that's how I came to be at
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Global Relay now almost coming up on three years, just over 2
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years. And it's fascinating what you
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can do once you've taken all of that historical learning and put
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it into something like this where I've stepped in and
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started to build a team and you begin to, I don't know, take the
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knowledge that you've had from maybe an agency background or
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various experiences and bring it all together.
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It really starts to become really exciting journey into
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moving the needle in a company that previously hadn't done ABM
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before. So it's very exciting premise
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for me to come in house and and do that.
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A global relay. Yeah, that's a good journey.
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And it's unusual to get the agency and the client side
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together and it gives you more of an understanding.
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And ABM, it's such a acronym has, has almost been seen as a
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bad thing from a sales perspective for a long time.
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And I think we're coming past that now.
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But seeing it from an agency side with multiple different
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companies doing it and then taking it back client side must
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give you an advantage in that you've seen how it's worked
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elsewhere. So that's, that's a really good,
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really good journey to start on, I think.
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Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's how I sold myself
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in a global relay issue. You know, you've seen it done so
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many times before, 10 plus big B2B technology companies doing
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exactly the journey that they're about to embark on.
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So absolutely. Yeah, you've hit the nail on the
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head. Yeah.
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Excellent. Great stuff.
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So let's let's dig a little into the the subject of today.
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How have you seen as was the fundamentals of ABM evolving as
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organisations mature in their approach and and and aim more at
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targeting engagement etcetera? I'd say there's two parts to it.
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There's the maturity of the company on that journey.
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And as we know, I think it's a common misconception that ABM's
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just been around most recently it's been, you know, I think
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it's Beth Burgess. I'm not sure if she was at
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Salesforce or one of the Big 5 tech.
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She has been doing this for 20 plus years.
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And so I think it's always been around in these sort of centres
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of excellence that have been created by the likes of sort of
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journey to maturity is one thing.
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But then I think what we're also seeing in more regular maybe the
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last 5-10 years is a maturity of technology.
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And so if I just talk to the first point, I think maturity
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and teams bringing in an ABM function or using agencies,
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etcetera. I think it's definitely a case
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of trying to crawl before you walk, before you run, you know,
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putting in just pilots beforehand.
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And I know a lot of people listening will probably already
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be doing this or maybe are yet to embark on it, but you can't
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go in day one and say we're going to execute a really
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exceptional ABM programme. It's a lot of trial and error.
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It's a lot of understanding data and digging into materials and
6:02
finding what's right for the audience you're speaking to.
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Then the second layer being the technology which is just rapidly
6:10
evolving as we all know with the introduction of AI.
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And so I'd say again, technology, you can't go in day
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one with the perfect tech stack to execute.
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But I think again, building blocks of it come together to
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provide you what eventually will be sort of your three to five
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year when you're looking good, things are shaping up well in
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your programs and you've got the right tech behind you, you've
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figured out where it plays in your programs, then you've got a
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good way to move forward. But again, I think it's the
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maturity is an interesting question.
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It's so multifaceted. And I think as you build out
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teams, talent is a big part of that as well.
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You know, having the right people that have either done it
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before or skill gaps. But I think insight and data
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obviously for ABM is just key and having people that can
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understand it and find patterns and understand it in that level.
6:54
Yeah. And that's an interesting thing
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actually, because you've just done it or you're doing it at
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Global Relay, establishing ABM from from scratch, if you like.
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What would you say are the key considerations when you're
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building the right team and the right operating model?
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I think there's the change management is a really tough
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one, but when it once it's kind of addressed, I think it's
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continuation, you know, you don't just fix it from day one.
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So we're going to be doing ABM now and everyone's on board.
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It's a continuous conversation, of course, but I think coming
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in, having buy in early on really helps with sales with
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revenue OPS with or sales OPS, marketing OPS, you kind of need
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that collaboration in order to take it forward.
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I'd say if you're a lone wolf trying to stand up ABM, it's not
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going to go very far because you do need those points of
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execution with sales. You can't just throw ABM out
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into a company and hope for the best.
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So that relationship with sales and leadership quite quickly
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becomes it's going to work or it's not with ABM, it can't go
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much further without them. So having that collaboration
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from day one's very important or at least starting to build on it
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from day one. And then I think having the
8:03
other marketing functions and other marketing teams
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understanding it to some extent a bit deeper than perhaps they
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do from they haven't been involved in ABM before.
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So you do need to have content writers and parts of the team
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that are going to actually be executing on materials that are
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really relevant to that account, understand what the objectives
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are and what those challenges are within the account or
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accounts if it's one to few. So initially it's that change
8:28
management trying to explain the difference and impact that ABM
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can have and bring people along on that journey.
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But secondly, then the practitioner is also coming
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along. So they when they're writing
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content or when they're developing a could be designed
8:41
landing page, they're understanding the needle that
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we're trying to move as well. So kind of from the top down,
8:46
but also bottom up with people that are going to be doing the
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day-to-day as well. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
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And I think people still today underestimate that the
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importance of the alignment, especially sales and marketing
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because as I say, sales have always seen ABM, that's a
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marketing thing that's not relevant to me.
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But actually if marketing get ABM right, everything they're
9:07
doing is beneficial for sales because all of a sudden your
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pipeline is only going to get filled of as good quality
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opportunities they can actually close.
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So I think it's and we did a, we did a whole thing at the Global
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ABM conference a couple of weeks ago and we had a panel
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discussion with some customers who really have nailed that
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sales and marketing alignment. And we weren't just hearing from
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marketing, we're hearing from sales the different it means.
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So I think that alignment is really important.
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Absolutely. And I think where I am
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currently, I would say there's such a good relationship and
9:36
understanding for it in pockets and majority, but there's
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pockets where it's exceeding expectation.
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You know, they're the ones actually coming to us asking for
9:46
that report or you know, can you help me in here doing XYZ with
9:50
reports? So I think it's it's at that
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moment where we're going to continue to see that momentum
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carries on. And it comes both ways.
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You know, we're supporting showing the value, but also
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where sales are seeing the value and understand it really, really
10:03
well. They're coming to us, which is
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the ideal. You know, it's a partnership
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where it's both ways, so. Yeah, I've sat down.
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I've sat in a few customer sales and marketing meetings and
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you've got the the sales champions who've been adopting
10:16
this and are getting great results and all of a sudden the
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rest of the sales team say I want some of that as well.
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So it's sort of like self fulfilling, which is great to
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see. We want to talk about IBM
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strategies and I don't think any business looks at it exactly the
10:28
same. So what guiding principles would
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you say help ensure alignment and and effectiveness across the
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different business contexts? Yeah, that's actually a really
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timely question because I think what you're just saying there
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about it sometimes can become who shouts loudest if you've got
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a finite amount of ABM resource, whether that's in house or with
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an agency. I think when you start to see
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success, you do get then a wave of, OK, how can we scale this?
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And so coming back to your question around alignment and,
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and everything, I think this segues really nicely because
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we've recently been in a position and I've seen it in
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clients as well, where things have really taken off and I
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think we've longer buying cycles.
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It's really tricky, isn't it? Because you spend a lot of time
11:10
doing the sort of footwork, trying to bed in the campaign,
11:15
making sure things work properly and you're seeing success.
11:18
And then say 18 months, two years, you do see it take off
11:21
and you get this influx of OK, I'd like that and I want it now.
11:25
It's kind of again, change management or education that the
11:28
work starts 18 months ago, you know, so we have to lay down the
11:31
foundation so that we can be working towards that.
11:33
I mean, that's for the longer sales cycles that we're talking
11:35
about those big enterprise companies.
11:37
But when we do see that influx, the alignment for me becomes
11:42
sort of like a steering Cove. So for those that aren't
11:44
familiar, putting together a steering group that says, OK,
11:47
outside of ABMI need input from leadership, from sales,
11:51
marketing leadership, customer success, all these groups that I
11:54
would like their agreement on the account selection, I'd like
11:57
their agreement and alignment on the tactics that we're going to
12:00
use for these accounts. So it becomes a group that
12:03
really helps agree the direction of travel for the next, in our
12:07
case for the next 12 months. And that's something that I've
12:09
been doing most recently in my current role that's really
12:12
helped, I think with that shouting loudest, trying to
12:16
understand where should our priorities sit within the
12:19
business and where I think there might be a priority, there's
12:22
others in that group that can say, well, actually you don't
12:25
maybe have the details on XYZ. So let me bring that to the
12:27
table. And it's an opportunity for
12:29
everyone to come on board. So I think that alignment is
12:32
what's going to carry us forward in the role I'm in today.
12:34
But like I say, previous clients of mine, I think we've always,
12:37
we've, the clients I've worked into have been ABM managers,
12:41
heads of ABM, both managers that kind of role.
12:45
And they're facing the same challenges where if ABM has been
12:47
successful or growth marketing has been successful, they're
12:51
looking for that next option to scale.
12:54
And often that either Centre of Excellence or ABM Steerco is a
12:58
good way of kind of corralling, aligning all of the people that
13:01
need to be involved for success. Yeah, really important.
13:04
And I think you you touched on something earlier talking about
13:06
the longer buying cycles and there's this immediacy out there
13:10
now you I must have results instantly to prove what I'm
13:14
doing is successful and and I can based approaches is more
13:17
than that, right. It's reaching those buyers in
13:19
those companies that traditionally you haven't been
13:22
able to get in front of and starting to nurture them and
13:24
gain trust long before they ever turn into an opportunity.
13:28
And I think sometimes that's a difficult concept in today's
13:31
world where we press a button and we instantly want something
13:33
to happen. But it is important and that
13:35
alignment, getting sales leaders and the other sides of the
13:38
business understanding this is the long term objective of what
13:41
we're going to do and these are the results we're going to get
13:43
there and getting their support is really important.
13:46
Absolutely. OK.
13:47
So when you consider thinking about it from your perspective,
13:51
how can you leaders balance the need for that strategic
13:55
consistency with the flexibility that A/B MABM demanded, You
13:59
know, especially when you're looking across regions and
14:02
different verticals, etcetera? Yeah, I think that alignment can
14:05
come from, if leadership are involved, they're understanding
14:09
where they're going to have advocates or people that want to
14:11
work with ABM. I think that's like a quick win
14:13
for them because actually pulling in, say it may be sales
14:16
or CS reps that customer success reps that don't necessarily have
14:20
the capacity or the understanding can only go one
14:24
way, I think in my mind. Whereas they know the
14:27
individuals that are really going to embrace being a part of
14:29
an ABM program. And I think if it's, you know,
14:32
finite and resource, there's only so many programs so we can
14:35
run and support, they're quite selective about who they bring
14:37
in. And that for us is a major win
14:40
because it means we're working with people who really
14:42
understand the value. So I think when it comes to
14:44
sales leadership or customer success, anyone in the customer
14:48
life cycle that's looking after their customers as well.
14:51
Because you know, we've been talking about prospects up till
14:53
now, but there is this conversation and programs we're
14:56
running in customer and that's equally important as well.
14:59
So from both sides. Yeah.
15:01
And I think probably 50% of our clients do as much work with
15:05
their customers using our platforms as they do with the
15:08
new business. It's sometimes not being as that
15:10
way, but it definitely is, especially once you start using
15:12
it and realise, oh look, I've just identified that thick
15:15
customer that we think is a re queue client, definitely secure
15:19
for renewal is suddenly exploring the competition and
15:22
raising red flags and things like that is really important I
15:24
think. My point earlier about, you
15:27
know, second point I went into around technology, I think this
15:29
is 1 area that's becoming hopefully shifting that idea
15:34
that ABM is just for demand generation.
15:37
I think it's common misconception.
15:39
It's a silver bullet and actually we're missing this huge
15:42
opportunity within customers. Like we're filling, you know,
15:45
typical funnel analogy, but filling the funnel from the top
15:48
and there's holes at the bottom and we're leaving a lot on the
15:51
table with customer, whether it's from an upsell perspective
15:54
or it's from like you say, a churn perspective.
15:57
And tools like demand base, of course that can help with that.
16:00
And there's lots of intent providers out there, but other
16:03
technologies as well that I think you just plug it together
16:06
if you can. I know it's budget and all the
16:08
rest, you know, text app becomes expensive quickly, but that's
16:12
we're sort of miles away from where we were five years ago,
16:15
not in global relay, but I think as an industry being able to use
16:18
that to our advantage and understand signals a lot better.
16:21
So we're looking at chair, we're looking at renewals ahead of
16:24
time to understand if they are as sure as we think they are.
16:27
It's not just a gut instinct anymore.
16:29
So, yeah, really interesting point you raised there about the
16:32
technology. Yeah.
16:33
And I think ABM is fulfilling all of that in a way because
16:37
it's helping you identify the right companies to go after,
16:40
helping you convert them into customers.
16:43
But then because they're the right customers and they're a
16:45
good fit and you're almost certainly going to be able to
16:48
deliver better value. It just naturally happens that
16:50
your renewal rates are improving and the ability to upsell and
16:53
cross sell the better because you've got that value in there.
16:55
So yeah, I think ABM is now and I think you and I are discussing
16:59
it, but I think the general shift in the market is this is
17:01
going to help us from the very beginning all the way through to
17:04
renewing and and upselling and retaining.
17:07
So really important so. I suppose maybe this is digging
17:11
back into your agency side more than where you are now, but a
17:14
bit of both your experience with B to B.Tech clients, are there
17:17
any common challenges that you've seen emerge when you're
17:20
trying to move from the theory of ABM to actually executing on
17:23
the programs? With clients in that
17:25
relationship, sensitivities around their serum were always a
17:29
big challenge. You know, you're an agency and
17:31
you're trying to tap into all the sorts of sensitive details
17:34
that they don't necessarily release to a third party.
17:36
But outside of that, the account selection because it can be done
17:40
in so many different ways. And I think a lot of clients
17:43
were looking for that advice on how to make those selections and
17:46
wanted to do account scoring and all that good stuff that demand
17:49
base can help with. But if you don't have that, you
17:51
know, it's a very manual process and they want that consultation.
17:55
But then there are other clients who would kind of, I think a lot
17:59
of people doing ABM in the house are familiar with this idea of
18:02
their set of sales run through. Maybe prospects might be a
18:06
prospect list, it might be a cold list, you know, wherever it
18:09
might have come from Leeds and saying, oh, I've got a good, you
18:12
know, sales saying I've got a good feeling about accounts XYZ.
18:15
Could you put that forward to the agency?
18:17
And then when you get them, you're thinking, all right,
18:19
explain to me how these have been selected because you know,
18:22
we've done a quick scan through. We can see so and so signed with
18:25
your competitor couple of months ago.
18:27
We taken into consideration these things they say, Oh no,
18:31
didn't know that. So I think insight is where a
18:34
lot of the time clients weren't able to take a look at the
18:38
insights as they may do today. You know, if they've got a
18:41
demand base, if they've got other technology.
18:44
But that was often the stumbling block that would delay things
18:47
getting to execution because just account selection in itself
18:50
takes weeks. I think even with technology
18:52
without probably months, especially in that client agency
18:55
relationship because you're going backwards and forwards.
18:58
So account selection and it's so key as you know, you're known
19:01
people listening. If you get that wrong, really
19:04
it's an uphill struggle from there.
19:06
You know everything you're creating one the opportunity and
19:08
just might not be there within that account or a group of
19:11
accounts, but all the content you'll create, you'll be doing
19:14
it on maybe non accurate information so that the message
19:19
completely misses the target. And I think that's such a shame.
19:22
So account selection filtering through then to the next stage
19:25
of positioning and everything for that account, it kind of has
19:28
that knock on, on impact. So I think getting account
19:30
selection right up front is just the biggest way to set everyone
19:33
up for success. And again, it kind of goes back
19:36
to the idea of a steer Co or other groups involved because
19:39
that needs, it can't just be a gut feel from someone three
19:44
people removed from that steering group.
19:46
It needs to be people in the room that understand the
19:48
accounts and have an idea of how that's going to contribute to
19:51
business objectives as well. So that's from my perspective
19:55
where I think a lot of the challenges would set.
19:58
Yeah, I think you're right. And I, I'm one of the mantras
20:00
that demand base have is that we help you ensure that all of your
20:03
time, budget and resource is spent only on those companies
20:07
that you can and want to sell to.
20:08
So that account selection is, is critical.
20:11
And and if you go to any salesperson who's selling into
20:13
retail and say who do you want to go after, they'll say Tesco's
20:16
and they'll say Marks and Spencer's and Sainsbury's
20:18
etcetera. But the reality is none of those
20:20
might be in market for another 18 months, two years.
20:24
But there are other companies like them in the retail space
20:26
that are in market right now. So having that insight you
20:28
discussed to say these are the companies we're going to go
20:31
after right now, yes, of course, we're going to nurture and get
20:34
trust in these other ones. But these ones right now are in
20:37
market. We're going to focus on them and
20:39
get them into a pipeline, helps the sales of marketing, both
20:43
execute on those programs in the right way with the right
20:45
accounts. I think so.
20:47
Yeah. And I think there is this point
20:48
of becoming that advisor. You're saying, right, you want
20:52
to spend time on those accounts, absolutely fine.
20:55
But we've also got these accounts which we class as Nqas,
20:58
most qualified accounts. They're warm.
21:01
They've been spending a huge amount of time on our website.
21:03
They've been spending a huge amount of time engaging with
21:06
intent topics that we're tracking and we know mean they
21:09
are interested in this area of service, product, whatever it
21:13
might be. Why would we not start there?
21:15
As long as they're in our ICP and they're fitting all of our
21:19
requirements for you to focus on them, why wouldn't we?
21:22
As it seems like that's low hanging fruit.
21:25
And so it's that again, it's change management and education
21:27
to say these are some quick wins.
21:29
You could have potentially, I say quick, you know, as quick as
21:32
you can be in B to B.Tech, quick wins conversations that you know
21:36
you're going in warm. They know who we are already.
21:38
They're great for you to speak to versus, OK, we've got some
21:42
strategic accounts you want to move the needle on.
21:44
They're going to be some longer term plays and that's fine.
21:47
But we also need to get the insights right on those because
21:50
you know, to my earlier point, they might have just signed with
21:52
the competitor, they might not actually be in market now.
21:54
So, yeah, very interesting to have insights that like that
21:57
available. Yeah.
21:59
And that goes back to our earlier point on alignment.
22:01
If sales suddenly say that everything they're getting from
22:04
marketing is in market right now and it's someone they can
22:07
actually sell to, all of a sudden that becomes you.
22:10
To your point, the trusted advisors, they're not just going
22:12
to throw a load of stuff into pipeline and I've got a fight to
22:15
turn it into something. These are proper opportunities.
22:18
So that I think that's really important.
22:19
So we touched on technology before and I think we've all
22:22
heard the term AI, right? I mean that is that is the beast
22:25
right now. So how would you see these
22:28
improving platforms and IAI reshaping the balance between
22:33
what we've always had human insight and technology driven
22:36
orchestration? I think it's again, a few,
22:39
probably a few phases to this because Phase 1 is where we're
22:41
at today where a lot of the AI capabilities are in the
22:44
platforms we use already. They've been developed over the
22:47
last couple of years. You can get it in Salesforce
22:49
demand base even is there an available.
22:51
And now I think there's a bit of a skills gap and a bit of a
22:54
catch up needed for teams to actually use it properly.
22:57
And I think a lot of the events I've been to recently, earlier
23:00
in the year, it was very excitable around agent, agentic,
23:04
AI and you know, all these topics.
23:06
I think just recently we're finding that there is that
23:08
skills gap and the realization of great, the technology is very
23:12
exciting, but we now have to bring the workforce up to speed
23:15
and actually being able to use it.
23:17
And I think that goes for the AI that's in the technology we have
23:20
today, but also the tech that we're trying to buy or people
23:23
are trying to buy and bring into their tech stack.
23:26
Great if you're buying it, but you do need that enablement.
23:28
And hopefully a good vendor will bring you along on that journey
23:31
and give you everything you need in terms of training to use it.
23:33
Once we get past that, I think it's then about it's like
23:37
automation on steroids for me anyway.
23:39
The opportunity I see within ABM is getting a lot of the
23:42
processes, whether it's account selection or positioning
23:45
scalable through what AI can support with.
23:48
So managing a volume play much easier than we can today.
23:52
So that's where I see it helping initially.
23:55
I'm sure there's lots of use cases from content perspective
23:58
and personalisation on the website that I'm not even
24:01
touching on, but just from a getting a programme up and
24:03
running that scale, I think that's where we're going to see
24:07
a huge impact with an ABM very quickly.
24:09
But again, I think that's so dependent on the skills within
24:12
the team because you kind of the common phrase is human in the
24:15
loop. So everything that AI is
24:17
producing, you've got that human touch point to say, yeah, OK, I
24:20
agree with the logic that's been used here.
24:22
The prompts were on points. Everything's come back as we
24:24
hoped. And I think if the individuals
24:26
don't understand that, then we can't.
24:29
Obviously there's an obvious statement, but can't rely on the
24:31
outputs of AI in this scenario I'm using around account
24:35
selection. So I think there's a few
24:37
stumbling blocks before we get there, but there's some real
24:40
quick wins that I think for me would mean scale is going to
24:43
enable us to scale a lot faster. Yeah, it's really interesting
24:47
actually because as I say, we've been to a few events recently
24:50
and AI it's top of mind. But there's there's almost some
24:54
cynicism in it now because I spoke to quite a few sales
24:57
leaders that have said, yeah, we fully enhanced AI and and we
25:01
bought this AI tool and it drives our salespeople and our
25:04
SDRS to their next action and boom, they go off and do it.
25:08
But 6070% of the time it's not a real opportunity or it's sort of
25:13
the signals wrong or maybe one person from HSBC came onto our
25:18
homepage. So boom, SDRS go after HS and
25:24
term I like to use this is AI without the why.
25:27
AI is great to say do that, but you need to know why you do it.
25:31
As a salesperson, if I get an opportunity sent to me and it's
25:34
because these people in the bio group were doing XY and Z.
25:38
They read these articles off of your website.
25:40
Then they came to the website, they saw that white paper.
25:42
They you know, and you can see that there's a story there.
25:45
You know where they are on the bio journey.
25:47
Are they aware of our brand? Do they trust us or is it right
25:51
at the beginning? And if iPhone them now they've
25:53
never heard of us. It's critical to it.
25:55
And I think AI obviously, to your point, has a massive future
25:59
and all of these manually time consuming efforts that AI can
26:03
take over is brilliant. But we've got to be careful that
26:06
we're not just firing out for these AI signals and and
26:11
actually turning people off of it.
26:12
I don't think we'll get to that stage and it's early days in the
26:15
AI world, but I, I think you, you obviously identified it as
26:19
well. There's, there's a little bit of
26:21
almost cynicism around, yeah, AI great, but are they giving us
26:25
real signals or not? Yeah, I think the SDR completely
26:28
missed that off. We've actually been
26:30
investigating SDR tools from not that we want to shop for them,
26:33
but just to understand that technology and they're really
26:37
interesting. But I think to your point is
26:39
light intense signals can sometimes, sometimes be
26:41
misconstrued. I think we're in that really
26:44
tricky period. It's going to be trial and error
26:46
essentially. And I think that's what you were
26:48
getting at as well. But I really hope it's a shame
26:50
you're saying about cynicism, because I think it would be a
26:53
shame for us to say that's on AI because I think a lot of the
26:56
time those sort of scenarios can be fixed by just bringing people
27:01
up to speed on how to use the tool or education around it.
27:05
But again, I think it's one of those things we have to be
27:07
responsible. But when we bring it in, we're
27:09
not just dropping it into our teams and saying, there you go,
27:11
you've asked for AI, there it is, you know, making sure
27:14
everyone understands it so that we can make the most of it.
27:16
I hope it doesn't get shunned. And then everyone's like, OK,
27:19
we're over that wave of AI. We thought it's going to be big.
27:22
You know, I think we need to be quite patient with it and train
27:25
people up so we can use it efficiently.
27:28
Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head.
27:29
I think AI is here to stay. And it should, right, Because
27:32
it's going to give us so many advantages and lots of
27:35
technologies are now building that.
27:36
And these agentics is is going to be the heart of everything we
27:39
do. But yeah, definitely we've got
27:41
to make sure we get it right. So on that, when we look ahead,
27:45
are there any capabilities that you think would define the next
27:48
generation of ABM leaders, I mean more complex and
27:53
data-driven? Yeah.
27:54
What I would say, I'm seeing a lot of people or companies
27:57
employing digital marketers and putting ABM within their job
28:01
roles. And I just think that's a really
28:03
troubling approach because we're getting to a point then where
28:06
we're asking someone as a digital marketer to understand
28:09
ABM enough to execute a program, which I don't know, I think
28:14
there's real disparity there in understanding how ingrained a,
28:18
you know, the depth you have to go in to really get value from
28:21
an ABM program. Can someone do that if they're
28:23
also managing your paid strategy, your e-mail
28:26
automation, you know, they're adding it as if it's a channel.
28:29
And I think again, that's maybe a misconception.
28:31
It's not a channel, but going back to your question, the next
28:35
round of leaders or teams and what are they going to look
28:38
like, I think it still comes back to sort of the initial
28:41
fundamentals that I would look for.
28:42
And the team that I've hired actually is curiosity.
28:45
Because I think in order to be a good ABM manager or whatever
28:48
role you might have today or want in the future, if you've
28:52
got curiosity, you're going to unpick insights.
28:54
You're going to find what the pattern is, the story, the
28:57
missing link often, and that is where we uncover opportunities.
29:01
So as always, speak about in my team, if we're seeing patterns,
29:04
let's discuss it because then we can try and understand if
29:07
there's an opportunity here. And I think a lot of the
29:09
exciting ones that we've recently come to fruition or
29:12
kind of in a really critical stage is where we've spotted
29:15
things in the data. So I think that only comes from
29:18
being curious in nature. I know that's a very fluffy
29:21
answer, but I think without that, you know, skills are all
29:23
well and good. And I think we need to be
29:24
training for AI, need to be training for data insight
29:28
capability, so we can understand data.
29:30
But other than that, yeah, creativity, of course,
29:33
curiosity, of course. I think a natural interest in
29:36
technology is key because I don't see a future where we're
29:39
having ABM program stood up without technology.
29:42
I just don't see that. I think tech is going to become
29:44
more and more important in the programs we run, at least in
29:47
enterprise businesses. I do think there's a space
29:50
within the smaller businesses that are looking to launch ABM
29:54
or sort of pilot and test bed where they may not need such a
29:57
big text out. They might be looking to do
29:59
things manually. But I think as you scale,
30:01
there's, there's really no other way about it, I think, unless
30:03
you're going to hire a team of 100 for FPM, which could achieve
30:08
with technology. So yeah, I know that's fluffy.
30:10
I hope that's all right. But curiosity is obviously a key
30:13
point for me that I try and embed in the team.
30:16
Yeah, absolutely. Curiosity is one of the biggest
30:18
things when I'm, when I'm hiring for salespeople, are they really
30:20
interested? Do they want to take the time to
30:22
understand the business they're talking to and really dig into
30:25
the why of, you know, what's happening and why is it
30:28
happening and what happens if you don't fix it type thing?
30:30
So I think curiosity is a piggy for sure.
30:32
And I'm sure many people listening to this, if they're
30:36
not already doing it, would be keen to get going on the ABM,
30:39
modern ABM approaches. But they could find internal
30:43
resistance because we hear that quite a lot.
30:45
So how do you recommend they can fight that resistance,
30:48
especially when they're pushing for what many people are calling
30:51
unconventional marketing bets that you get in ABM?
30:54
Yeah. So I would go ahead and just do
30:56
some account selection. There's lots of different models
30:58
out there, but I think some of the basic ones are just based on
31:01
looking at engagement data and looking at if they fit your ICP.
31:05
And they they're things that you can do manually with a list of
31:08
about 100 accounts. So if you can in your own time
31:10
work on an account list, do some of that account scoring, score
31:14
them as high, medium, low as to whether they fit or not and then
31:17
present that back to the business.
31:19
I think that's a great starting place to say I've done a bit of
31:21
research. Here are some accounts that I
31:23
think would have great success with, but they're also exactly
31:27
the type of accounts we would like to have as customers or
31:29
clients. Anyone that says no to that, in
31:31
my mind is mad because you've done some work there to say this
31:34
is where I'd like to do some work.
31:35
And I think they're a really good bet for the company.
31:38
Let's go away and see if we can make it happen and position it
31:41
as a pilot. I don't like to use the word
31:43
because it suggests it's either going to pass or fail.
31:45
And I think you need trial and error and ABM to get it right.
31:48
But from starting perspective, if you're getting resistance, go
31:51
in with that account selection. And if you need help with that,
31:54
there's so many people in the ABM industry that I'm sure will
31:56
put their hand up to help. It's that you're, you're up
31:59
against change management. And I think anyone that's trying
32:03
to push on that door and say, I'd like to start something like
32:06
ABM within the business, I'm sure they're going to find a lot
32:09
of advocacy in the industry, in the community to help them.
32:12
So that like I said, there's a lot of template templates out
32:15
there for account selection. Also, if you're not able to
32:17
partner with an agency, still speaking with them because they
32:20
can give you a lot of that ammunition around stats and even
32:23
demand based speech, your vendors or potential vendors
32:27
because they can arm you with a lot of data that will explain to
32:30
the wider business why ABM is effective and why it does work
32:33
has an impact. So lean on resources in the
32:36
community and out here, probably on on LinkedIn as well, and
32:40
reach out and connect with people in the community.
32:42
Yeah, absolutely. And we have lots of discussions
32:45
where we say, well, you don't have to use something like a
32:47
demand base, but if you don't know who's in market, if and how
32:52
they're engaging with your brand, be that on your website
32:55
talking to sell, that's your strategy, right.
32:57
It's cross your fingers and hope.
32:58
Well, I think and a lot of the stuff we do before we start
33:02
working with clients is have a look and say, well, OK, what's
33:04
your ideal customer look like? Let's see Rick of those are in
33:07
market right now off of your website and let's see if any of
33:11
them are coming to your website or not.
33:12
And that really helps when they go and have their internal
33:15
discussions. I want to do this because
33:17
there's 120 companies that we've identified that are are ideal
33:21
fit that are in market right now.
33:24
Only kind of them are coming to our website, so we can either
33:27
hope that they find us or we can start working on it.
33:29
And that's where an account based approach works.
33:31
So yeah, definitely, I think really good advice there.
33:34
So you sound like someone who consumes lots of content
33:38
yourself. Are there any books, blogs,
33:40
podcasts that you would recommend to our listeners?
33:43
I do listen to on base so that I think is so interesting.
33:47
You've got such a variety of people that come on and then
33:50
Kate Mackey from EY, her book is people leave B to B marketing
33:55
fundamentals. And that I think even for an
33:57
experienced per person inexperienced marketing
34:00
environment reading that takes you back to the fundamentals of
34:03
what we should be pushing for. So I found that a really
34:06
interesting read and most recently being in conversations
34:09
with EY, they're in their 7th year now of ABM.
34:12
So they're a few years ahead of where I am at Global Relay.
34:16
And it's great. Again, talking about the
34:17
community and discussing, you know, not sensitive information,
34:21
but just discussing our approaches, how we're finding if
34:24
there's resistance and different tactics, how we're working
34:27
through it. So and shout out to Kate and her
34:30
team. Are there any other books?
34:32
I mean, obviously I mentioned Bev Burgess earlier in the
34:34
podcast. I think if, especially if this
34:36
is just your first foray into ABM or you're at that earlier
34:39
journey, her book is fantastic. And again, probably experienced
34:43
ABM as well. We'll enjoy it.
34:45
And actually we had. Kate on a podcast not so long
34:47
ago and it was really as well. Yeah, Not, not yet, Bev, but
34:51
we're working on it. You've been a great guest as
34:55
well today. So I think there's probably an
34:58
argument that we could get you back on another session in the
35:00
future because I think we've just scratched the surface.
35:02
So we might, we might come back to you on that.
35:04
But all the listeners today, there's lots of stuff that
35:07
they've got from it, but also other questions and future
35:09
conversations I like to have. If that was the case, are you
35:12
open to people getting in touch with you?
35:14
And if so, how should they do so?
35:16
Yeah, absolutely. So you can reach me on LinkedIn
35:18
and if you can guess already and all about our community.
35:21
So whether it's ABM or digital marketing more generally, I'd
35:24
love to speak to anyone that wants to get in touch.
35:26
Awesome. Well, that was a great session,
35:28
Katie. Thanks very much.
35:29
I really appreciate it. I hope you've enjoyed this
35:31
episode. And and listeners, don't forget
35:33
there's another 600 or so episodes in the series, so make
35:37
sure to check them out. Thanks for listening.
35:38
Thanks against Katie, and until next time, everybody.
35:42
Cheerio. Thanks for joining us for On
35:45
Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
35:47
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35:59
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