Latest / The Hidden Load: For the educators and leaders in medicine who hold everyone up. / Nervous System Capacity & Sustainable Regulation with Becca Mattie
Transcript
- Santina Wheat: I really don't like that it says live. That's gonna bother me. Sorry. Okay. Welcome back to The Hidden Load. I am your host, Dr. Santina or Tina Wheat. As clinicians, as leaders, and medical educators, we talk a lot about burnout. We look at it as a time management issue, a scheduling failure, or even an administrative headache. We are told to fix it with abstract goal setting and sometimes the horrible wellness modules. But we rarely look at our daily exhaustion through the lens of pure physiology and nervous system regulation. We often treat our bodies like machines that just need to be fueled and driven without understanding that our inability to slow down is often a safety issue and not just a logistics issue. Our guest today is Becca Maddie. Becca is an occupational therapist, a speaker, and an entrepreneur behind Honey BOT and the Grow Beyond Collective. She is the creator of the Manifest Disrupt and Build Framework and the Cultivating Capacity Program, where she helps healthcare professionals move away from abstract wellness advice towards real, sustainable occupational harmony. Becca, welcome to the show. I am so happy to have you here today. Becca Mattie: Thank you so much, Santina. I'm really glad to be here and to talk on this subject. I will try to keep myself at a minimum, but I can it's such a passionate area for me. Santina Wheat: Well, I'm looking forward to all you have to say. ⁓ so starting with, you have a decade of experience as an OT. From your experience, why are healthcare providers so profoundly disconnected from their own biological capacity? Becca Mattie: I think there's a tendency to prioritize, you know, so many of us as healthcare professionals enter this field ready to support the people around us and the clients and patients we see. And so we get really good, at least this is in my case too, we get really good at compartmentalizing. So that means I'm gonna put my stuff at the door. I'm gonna come into this office and I'm gonna be present and hold space. For what my clients are bringing in for me. And then we get really good at ignoring that compartment that holds our own regulation and our own strategies. and just like the things that we need. And then all of a sudden, years go by and it's like, I can't do this anymore. Why don't I love what I'm doing anymore? And all of a sudden you have to have that realization and go back and open that box back up, feel the feelings you need to. address and just come back to yourself. So that is just this recipe for burnout that really sneaks up on us, I think. Santina Wheat: I think that's such an important point. I think that many of us are even taught that we have to do that compartmental compartmentalization. I can never say the word. ⁓ because you have to be able to manage that and then go walk into that next room and not show on your face what's happening at home or even with that last patient or client that you just saw. And so we're trained that that's what we have to do to get through the day. Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. Yes. And Santina Wheat: And then that thing that we've been trained to do is what causes the problems. Becca Mattie: Right, because we're not I we're not taught how to undo that at the end of the day, complete the stress cycle. Cause then we go home and you have to step into either caregiver role or spouse role or even just managing your home. And then now those are different demands being placed on your system and you're you're just not given the time or space. or haven't prioritized the time and space to feel the feelings that you needed to after that session at nine o'clock this morning. That was really heavy for you. And so ⁓ in my experience, you know, I was really good at that. And I I still consider myself pretty good at that, but I at the compartmentalizing. But I have gotten a lot better at pausing at the end of my day or before bedtime to really download what happened and allow myself to feel what I what I wanted to feel throughout the day. Santina Wheat: Such a hard skill to relearn. ⁓ And I will say that it's not just this compartmentalization that we have. We all also in this industry pride ourselves on being high achievers. We've had to work really hard to get where we are. We're all driven, we're all thorough, and we're all detail-oriented because that's what has allowed us to have success. ⁓ Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. Santina Wheat: But there's this dark side to that, right? ⁓ that we carry as a hidden load. How do you help people see and distinguish between a healthy value-driven desire to do good work and a dysfunctional pattern of perfectionism? Becca Mattie: Yeah, this one is not only coming from my expertise as an OT, but also a lived experience. Seeing that dark side of that high achieving, it can sneak up on us because we look so successful from the outside. And everyone is giving us that external validation and that feedback that. You're doing great. This is amazing. That sounds amazing. That opportunity you're chasing, that grant that you just got, it all sounds so wonderful. However, what's happening on the inside is is self-abandonment. You know, you're not addressing potentially how saying yes to that next amazing opportunity is going to take away your capacity to show up as a parent or as a family member. And then that ends up actually. You know, being that family lamp family member that's present is a big value for you. You want to leave that legacy. However, now I'm abandoning that value to chase this opportunity, which I wasn't making that conscious decision to do that. It was just that's the next thing that's being presented to me. And obviously the answer should be yes, right? When in reality, I haven't taken the time to really assess and ask myself. Is this part of the legacy I want to leave as a parent or as a family member or however you want to show up in your community? How does this opportunity serve that? And so what I do with individuals is sit down with them and first we start with like, where are we at right now? Like where is your time literally being spent? And is that are your values reflected in what your schedule looks like every day? Or every week. So, you know, we take an assessment of where we're at, non-judgmental, because we are high achievers. We are doing amazing things for our community and the people we serve. But in order to continue to do that for many years to come or until we retire, we have to make sure that what we're doing is ultimately serving those ingrained values for us personally. And that's what I found. Yeah, go ahead. That's what I found I was doing. Santina Wheat: I think that that's so important. And one of the hard parts for me was realizing that it wasn't even just about how I was showing up at home that I was taking away from how I was showing up from home. When my goal was to do the best that I could at work and to get that promotion so that I could do this thing so that later this would would help at home. It also meant sometimes I was pushing myself in such a way that I wasn't able to show up as my best self at work either. ⁓ sometimes you're just following this path that like I I feel like it's like a you're stuck in a river that's just taking you along. And like you said, you're not intentionally saying this is the direction that I want to go. It's just sort of pulling you. ⁓ and sometimes it is the right direction, but when you don't stop and assess that, then it doesn't feel as good. Becca Mattie: Thank you. Yeah, you get swept away with it. And and you're right, like there are times where absolutely I I think it's time to prioritize my career. This next move, this next opportunity is absolutely it. However, where is what's the end game if with this opportunity? If it is focused on my career, but my family life is really the driver for it in the background. So I just found myself choosing. one that was then always taking away from the other and then constantly feeling guilty of I'm not doing enough at work, I'm not doing enough at home. And somehow I'm busy 100% of the day. And and that's the other key word is like, am I busy or am I like intentionally spending my time? And and then that just drains you. You start to feel resentful towards all of it. And then there's there's another red flag for burnout. Recently someone asked me, like, what are the red flags of burnout before I've reached a point where I have to leave my position to get any sort of healing? And I said, you know, that little seed of resentment, whether that be I'm resenting that I have to go into work today and miss something that my child's doing, or that resentment that I have to show up to this family event. even though I want to be doing my work. That's also, you know, it goes back and forth, especially when we're high achieving and super passionate about what we're doing. Santina Wheat: Becca, I think that's so important. I think we often talk about burnout as ⁓ the frustration at work. And I think that sometimes people forget that it can be From your home and family life, too. That really some of the strategies that you can use to help with burnout need to be implemented in both places because ⁓ both your home life and your work life can be contributing in different ways. Sometimes it's one more than the other, but but the changes can really help in both places. Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. Santina Wheat: ⁓ so I have noticed that a lot of leaders, ⁓ educators or people that are new in their roles, any of those spots, ⁓ when they feel like there's stress or uncertainty, their immediate response can really be to work harder, to overcompensate, ⁓ and to control every single variable that they can. ⁓ and then they really just start to feel like that they can. they have to control those things to feel like they can overdeliver. ⁓ when you see this happening, especially when it's a, I need to overdeliver to deserve this seat, ⁓ what do you feel like is actually happening underneath all of that? Becca Mattie: First of all, you know, you mentioned uncertainty. And I think for high achieving and driven people, uncertainty is like this big scary gray area that we and all th you know, we go through so many years of college and graduate school and med school. And I think during those semesters, you're always being asked, okay, what's your next step? What are you, what's your schedule next semester? How are you going to get that? thing to cushion your resume and you know, how are you going to achieve the next step? And then we leave and that demand isn't on us as much. And then it's like, well, how do I live in the right now? As opposed to what am I doing next to achieve that final milestone? Because we may not have that big, shiny graduation anymore to look forward to. It's it's something totally different and abstract. So we have to feel uncomfortable feel comfortable in the uncertainty and either say, I know I'm making the right choices for what I value most and I'm going to trust that my path is going to lead me the right way. Or like here is the final goal that I have next. And how am I going to balance everything to get there? And then alongside uncertainty and our discomfort with that is you mentioned it right at the end there, worthiness. And feeling like we deserve a seat at the table or in the room. I am a victim of this con trying to overcompensate, oversell in order to feel worthy and to show up quote unquote perfect. Because if I don't show up perfect, someone is going to recogn this is the what's playing in my head. Someone is going to recognize that I don't deserve to be here with all these other smart, capable people in the room. And that's That's a pattern, a story that I had to recognize in myself to be able to interrupt when because it still happens. That that plays on loop when I'm in a room of very powerful and and impressive people. But the reason I'm in that room is either because I got invited or I saw the opportunity and I took it to be there because I am aspiring to be alongside these people. And so I need to believe first that I'm worthy of being there and I deserve to be there. In order for the rest of the room to know and recognize that. And they already do. They're, you know, they see that I have managed to get to this room. They see that you've managed to do that. So they're feeling the same way about you. So it's it's like catching that narrative before it starts to take over and keep you either out of the room or from going back. Santina Wheat: And I did just recently do an episode on imposter syndrome, imposter phenomenon, which is which is what this is all about. ⁓ and so if you're feeling like this is something that you need to hear again, if you feel like you need to think through how do I break the cycle of imposter phenomena again, go back and listen to that episode. I feel like it's one I'm gonna have to listen to myself multiple times. ⁓ because like Becca just said, it it it just keeps it keeps coming back. Some like every new position. that uncertainty time is is when it really comes through. Becca Mattie: Yeah, and I I loved that episode because yeah, it resonated so much with me. And it yeah, it's either like a new position, and again, there's that uncertainty. Like, I don't know what to expect from this new novel space that I'm in. So therefore I'm not worth being, you know, worthy of being there. Like the well, no, you're you're paving the path for somebody, or you are creating something that may not have existed before, or even re thinking how this position can serve the either the industry you're in or the the institution you're working for. And so it's it's just all about recognizing your own worthiness, recognizing that you are capable. And it's okay to not know what's next or to ask for that help and let people help you. Santina Wheat: Absolutely. Okay, I really want to talk about your framework of manifest, disrupt, and build. tell me why this is important and where it came from and why it's important really for someone who is is a leader or an educator or or just a high achiever in in our fields. Becca Mattie: Yeah, it was born out of my desire to take some of the abstract work I was doing, like in my own therapy and with coaches, as well as my background, really practical background in OT, and like merge those two things to create a really easy to understand framework for not just setting a goal and achieving it. So what we do with manifest, that's all about. identifying the goal you have, but then turning it into an identity. How does this fit into the identity I have for myself? And that's where we get that manifest piece. So an an easy example that I talk about is I had to take working out, which is a challenge exercise, that kind of thing is a challenging habit to ⁓ pursue for a lot of people. But what I had to do, I had a lot of external validation that I was looking for, you know, the number on the scale, running the race, like those are very external. But in order to keep it going and keep that momentum for myself without those external things, I had to turn it into a part of my identity. And I said, how does what is the identity that is associated with exercise for me? Well, I want to be a really active mom. I want to be able to stay keep up with my son and have the energy to do the things he wants to do. And so anytime I was starting to feel that pull of, ⁓ I can't do it today. I don't want to do it today. I would say, what it what would an active mom do? Because I am an active mom. Okay, well, she'd at least get up and and do a short walk. Right. And so integrating that goal not only into what You want to achieve, but also how does it fulfill a piece of your identity? Then along with that, we have the disruption, which is the hardest part. And that is all about that nervous system work and finding and identifying those patterns that are either keeping you still or holding you back from moving into and stepping into that identity. So is there a Pattern of imposter syndrome that is holding you back from applying to that next position that you on paper are very qualified for. However, there's just a sense of a lack of safety, a sense of safety in your system that says, no, I better not yet. And so then you're just held, you know, you're static at that point and you're not moving forward and you can't reach that goal that you feel like you've been trying. To get towards for even years for some people. So, what are those patterns that we need to disrupt? And then finally, building is the more practical piece and building the environment, building your social and professional network, and then the the actual time. Where am I finding the time to work on that goal, to go to the next step, to take the action to reach the goal that I want to achieve? So I say them in that order, manifest, disrupt, and build. But the visual that I have for this framework is really just blurred edges and circles because all three of those things happen either simultaneously in different ways. You may step into an identity that then unlocks a ⁓ another level for you, or you disrupt one pattern that then tells you, ⁓ I can move forward on this other path that I've identified. So It they're all fluid and sometimes they happen out of order. Sometimes one is we need to spend a lot more time in that disrupt piece in order to build what we really need. So it's one way to tangibly talk about the big picture when it comes to just setting a goal, which sound makes it sound so simple. Set a goal, take the steps, achieve the goal. There's so much more that happens in the background. And that's where I wanted to put some words, some language to it as an OT to be able to lay that out for people and walk through it with them. Santina Wheat: That is amazing. I really would like to spend a little bit more time with the disrupt phase because I feel like that's one that is really hard. ⁓ I feel like I've had a lot of conversations recently ⁓ with those in the medical field about the unlearning that we have to do because much of our training creates habits that Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. Santina Wheat: That really don't allow us to sus to sustain for the long run. And I'm all about making sure that we can figure out ⁓ habits and pathways that allow us to sustain in our careers or our home lives, whatever it is. So when someone is caught in these loops, how can they disrupt it? How can they disrupt that physiological? urge to do these habits that have been ingrained, like you said, often for years. Becca Mattie: I would say first of all, identifying them is a huge first step and that often can't be done alone. It's really hard to see the forest for the trees kind of thing. So th I didn't recognize some of my patterns until I was working with a therapist on specific challenges I was going through in my life. And Having them, or I would notice a pattern, like here I am, this fourth round of feeling like a failure, even though I worked really hard for something, it didn't work out, but another opportunity came. However, I feel like I've failed yet again. I don't want to feel that way anymore. And so you have to identify first what is this feeling that you keep having over and over again? And you have to say, I don't want to feel this anymore. That is the first step. And then getting the support from, like I said, a therapist, a coach, even a trusted family member. However, I would say there's value in having a third party that's not invested in you just feeling good, that really wants you to challenge you when things are coming up like this. And they have that professional lens to offer. So That identification is a big part of it because then you can start to notice, ⁓ it came up so much more than I realized. I even had this recently at a meeting or like a presentation from somebody on perfectionism. I've never considered myself a perfectionist until she described perfectionism as overworking and overcompensating in order to feel like you deserve to be somewhere. And I was like, ⁓ no, that's a pattern I have. I've never considered myself a perfectionist. And so then I unlocked, okay, I have these perfectionistic tendencies. How do I start to peel back the layers? And so in order to start peeling back the layers and working on that, I have to see where is it showing up in my life or in my work. And then moving from there, there's journaling. Meditation. I'm working, I have a hypnotherapist I've been working with who does ⁓ breath work and and that kind of thing, and really focusing in on this one aspect, this one pattern. And so it the journey is different for everybody, but I think the biggest piece is finding some way to slow down and reflect on that pattern and then get support. For what it can look like without it, because that is the part that's gonna feel unsafe. Is when I I've stopped doing it, but what do I do in its place? So when I feel unworthy, I am going to instead of shutting down or procrastinating somehow, I am going to take the very the smallest next step to move towards the thing that feels unsafe. Santina Wheat: Mm-hmm. Becca Mattie: And then I am going to take a walk outside to help my system regulate again. Because I'm cognitively telling telling myself I'm safe. But now I need to physically put myself in safety, which means lowering my heart rate and you know, ⁓ getting my blood pressure down a little bit. Maybe I'm gonna read a book, just something that then physiologically puts me in safety. And if you are chronically in that fight or flight mode, that can even just coming out of that can feel unsafe. So that's why I say this disrupt part can be the hardest part of the process, however it's going to have the biggest impact across multiple areas of life. Santina Wheat: I just want to share that ⁓ the first time someone encouraged me to meditate, I shouldn't actually say the first time, the first hundred times somebody encouraged me to meditate, the idea of that felt unsafe to me. It was and it wasn't that there was anything wrong with meditation. It was that I thought I would be bad at it, that I didn't know how to let go of those thoughts in my brain. This was going to be something that I wasn't good at. And as a high achiever, I did not want to do anything that I was not good at. ⁓ And so this idea that you're presenting to Tina Wheat two years ago, I would have been like, ⁓ no, this is not for me. ⁓ But then I learned that meditation, it wasn't necessarily about meditation. It was about mindfulness. It was about how can I just do this in a way that allows me to be mindful. And so I still do not choose meditation. I would choose the walk. That's one that works really well for me. ⁓ sometimes just different breathing exercises, even if it's for 30 seconds, can be enough. I have a I have a mat in my office so that like even stretching where it allows me to just reset can be the thing if it's raining outside and I can't go for the walk. ⁓ but there's more than one way to do this, is what I'm getting at. And Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. And and what I encourage yeah, yeah, and what I encourage people to do is think back to childhood and think about the things that you lost track of time doing. So was it exploring on a hike? Was it being outside? Was it for me it was doing Legos? I would just zone in and ⁓ nothing else mattered. And I for Santina Wheat: Different things. Becca Mattie: When I was in the thick of all of this, I made a list of those things so that when I got to the end of my day and I had complete decision fatigue and couldn't even come up with an idea of what to do with myself, I would refer to that essentially menu of regulation activities and pick one. And I'd do that for like the 30 minutes before bed. And yeah, I had to put meditation in the context of sleep. Because that is where it felt the most accessible for me. So I've only ever really done sleep meditations or things like that just before bedtime. Because yeah, I was the same way. It's like I'm not really good at being still during the day. But if I can put it in the context of I'm trying to downregulate my body to be able to sleep well, that worked for me. So yeah, it looks so different. And I think we really often Santina Wheat: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Becca Mattie: mistake regulation and all of that stuff for being still and being super calm. And that's not necessarily what it is. The like for example, the other day my husband, I had a very stressful day with my kids and my husband came home and asked, okay, what do you need right now? What what's something that I can help with? And I was like, actually if I could just get a an hour of like focused work time because I liked what I was working on at the moment. where I have my headphones in and nobody bothers me, that would make me feel so much better. Cause it that was like tangible and it did. It regulated me right back down. So that's just what I needed that day. But I've done the work to be able to identify what feeling I'm going for. Santina Wheat: Absolutely. I want to ask a little bit about your cultivating capacity program. ⁓ when someone comes through this program, what is the baseline friction point that you see them wrestling with the most? And then what's the biggest aha moment that they usually hit regarding how they occupy their time and life energy? Becca Mattie: One of the feedback I got from a participant was the second she read that this program was for people who feel like they're white knuckling through their day, she knew it was for her. And so that really illustrated not just saying, like, do you feel stressed? Like that's that I feel like it's now kind of an overused word that we're like, yeah, we're all stressed. But when we think about white knuckling it, that means your whole body is tense and you are just almost walking on eggshells just to get to the next part of your day and to hopefully sleep that night. And so that's what is resonating with the people who are coming to this program. The other one was ⁓ I described it as feeling caffeinated but not capable. So you're just you're putting band-aids on Your capacity to get through the day, right? We're caffeinating, we're scrolling social media, looking for those short-term dopamine hits just to get through the next thing. Coming through the program, the goal is to be able to show up. In your day as yourself, not as the version of yourself that you think should be there, or the version of yourself who is completely checked out. You are able to show up and you have the capacity to be present. And the idea of being present does not stress you out more. For example, I have to spend an hour with my kid today because I haven't seen them all week very much. And so I'm just like, I have to get through this. It's like, well, that's not really being present. It's it's about having the nervous system capacity. So everyone starts out, there's a foundation, there's foundational lessons that everybody goes through so that we have a common language about your nervous system, about sensory processing, executive function, and ⁓ just bull bringing it all together what how those three things work together and I wanted to establish that foundation because I think a lot of those terms get thrown around as like buzzwords and things like that. And I want to make sure that we are clear together on what each of those actually means. Because it's just like the disruption, having that understanding of yourself and your system is going to give you the language to say. I am having a sensory overload right now because I've heard too many things. I've been overtouched, like that sensory system is being overloaded. Here's how I then use my tools to rectify that. So we start there and then we have one-on-one coaching sessions with me to try tools and to troubleshoot whether or not they worked and to build that toolkit together. versus trying to figure it out on your own. And then honestly, losing focus, losing the plot, and helping build that understanding that a tool that works for you on Monday may not work for you by Friday, because you've had now your system has had a very stressful week behind it. So you need something different. Because I was also, I had that challenge too of Well, if I just do the same thing every day, I will be super regulated. Why isn't it working? Because we're humans. We're not made, we're not robots, we're not made to do the same thing every single day. And the demands that are placed on us are not going to be the same every day. So being able to talk through that with an OT who knows all about the ins and outs of ADLs and Santina Wheat: Isn't it working? Becca Mattie: being able to show up for you and how we can troubleshoot practically but also functionally is what is going to make the difference in success with building your nervous system capacity. Santina Wheat: I love that. ⁓ I also really loved ⁓ what you just saw said about the bubble. I actually said that to my children once. There was a day that I was like really overstimulated. It was a couple of years ago. And we were in an amusement park. So I was extra overstimulated. And I was like, mom has a bubble around her. You cannot touch me without talking to me about it first because I am so overstimulated. And it was just at a time where I'd finally understood that about myself. It took a long time to get there. Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I've had to ask for talking breaks because I have a child that asks so many wonderful questions about the world around him. But when I'm driving and it's the end of the day, I just need to focus on getting us home. And I can't answer a thousand questions. So yeah. Santina Wheat: I I relate to that one as well. ⁓ so as I've told you, ⁓ I'm primarily speaking to leaders and educators in this podcast because I think that we ⁓ have the extra special load of not only caring for ourselves, but caring for others in this path. can you tell me why some of this might be helpful ⁓ for those who we are leading or those who we are educating? Becca Mattie: Something like the Cultivating Capacity Program or the Manifest Disrupt Build Framework, they're concepts that are already out there. They're I've just placed my own nuance on them. And the reason something like this is important for us as leaders and educators is because we not only have to hold space for the people we love and care about, we are walking into rooms and holding space for an entire group of people. People who have big expectations on us. So our nervous system has this load that not everybody else carries or is expected to carry. And if I want an entire room of people to feel moved or to feel inspired or even ready to take action when they leave the room with me, I have to show up as my best self. I have to show up and co-regulate with them in the room. Co-regulate in a way that allows them to then feel that energy, that momentum of I am capable of doing this. So as an educator, you have to inspire students nearly every day. And that is no small feat. I have friends who are professors and I don't envy that because. You have to show up and hold space for this room of people who are coming from all different backgrounds and they are who knows what their morning commute was like. And that's all that energy is coming at you as you're in front of the room or at the table with them. And so we have this desire to hold that space for them. So it makes it all the more important for us to. care for our own system, to be able to continue to do that and continue to hold these rooms and inspire the people that we are talking with. Santina Wheat: And then we teach them that they can do it for themselves as well if we're modeling it. Becca Mattie: We have to model it. We have to model it. It's so important because you have to speak from experience. The nervous system is so tuned in subconsciously, too. If I was at my max stress level and I come into a room of people and ask them to meditate, they're gonna, their system is gonna be like this person is not meditating. Their system is going to know. Santina Wheat: Right. Becca Mattie: whether or not I'm actually doing the things I'm I'm telling them to do because our nervous systems mirror each other and they that's that social connection piece. And so I need to be able to show up in the way that I want them to show up for themselves. So it's it's just a completely different nuance when we are in this leadership, this educator position. And so it makes it all the more important that we show up for ourselves. Santina Wheat: Absolutely. Okay, so Becca, if there is one tiny practical thing that someone could start today to help them get their nervous system ⁓ to pull it a little bit out of high gear if they're stuck in that high gear mode, what is one thing that they could do today to signal safety to their body to help them ⁓ take their first steps? Becca Mattie: I would advise them to slow down, whatever that looks like for you. Now, often people say, get outside and sit, you know, sit in the grass, but I am not an outside person myself. So that one doesn't always resonate with me. But for me, it's that moment when I'm like in my car, just after I've left work and I just pulled in my driveway. And my car is off and I have this moment of peace before I turn into mom, after I've been clinician. That's my it doesn't even have to be a long time, but sometimes it turns into that. but finding wherever that is in your day, where there is a natural pause and sitting a little bit longer with it, possibly to the point of discomfort. Because until we are able to slow down, recognizing those patterns is not going to happen. And so can you extend that pause a couple extra minutes? Maybe you're in the school pickup line and instead of scrolling or responding to emails, you're just sitting there and you're observing what's going on around you and you're breathing, or you're just observing your breath. So I challenge you to extend those natural moments of pause in your day. And I think that's gonna be the the really important first step. Santina Wheat: I love that. I'll add some other times. Sometimes it's before you start eating your lunch instead of like chowing down and charting in the middle of it like ⁓ I know so many people do. Can you take two minutes before before you eat? ⁓ or first thing in the morning can you start with with pause as well. Becca Mattie: Yes, someone said yeah. I someone says she's working on chewing her food, which means like she's chewing more times. And I was like, why does that sound so revolutionary? But it's because we've been tuned into doing if I'm sitting and eating, I should do three other things at the same time too. Nope, that's not necessary. Chew your food. Santina Wheat: Mm-hmm. That was absolutely one of the things I learned during my coach training that mindful eating was a great way to to slow down. ⁓ so absolutely can help. Becca Mattie: Mm-hmm. And it's already happening in your day. You don't have to carve out extra time. Santina Wheat: Absolutely. Okay, Becca. I really appreciate you being here today. If folks want to find you, how do they find you? Becca Mattie: Yes, the best place to find me right now is Instagram. So if they find me at Becca Maddie, that is going to be the place where they will see all the different ways to work with me and I will share my journey of trying to figure this thing out as a clinician, as a leader myself. And Instagram is going to be the place to to connect. I'd love to hear from anybody. Santina Wheat: Sounds wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate this conversation. It's been wonderful talking to you. To my fellow, yeah, to my fellow leaders and educators, remember that your perfectionism is not an identity. It's just an old shield that you don't need to carry with you anymore. It's something that you can disrupt and you can build a system that allows you to breathe. Becca Mattie: We've had so much fun. Santina Wheat: ⁓ I've been your host, Dr. Santina Ortino Wheat, and this has been The Hidden Load. If this has been helpful for you, I hope you will share it with someone else that maybe doesn't realize that they are a perfectionist. ⁓ and then also see you next week.