Latest / The Ground Game / Just Keep Going

Transcript

Just Keep Going · The Ground Game

0:03
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the ground game for mortgage professionals built for the fight.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Hosted by Brian Lovell and Mark Milo.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: I was at lunch with a real estate agent yesterday, super successful agent here in Atlanta, like a rock star.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: And she's talking to me.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: She's she she said, I didn't even drive here.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, my my Tesla drove me here.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What do you mean?
0:26
SPEAKER_02: She goes, I don't drive anywhere anymore.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: My Tesla, my Model X drove me here and I'm working while I'm working.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: She says, as a matter of fact, my husband and I are anxious to buy the Tesla.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh, basically, it's going to be like a robocar.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Won't even have a steering wheel in it.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: It's going to be about$30,000 and it will be a Waymo that you own that's going to take you wherever you want to go.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: And for her as an agent, it frees her up, right?
0:51
SPEAKER_02: She's able to do business.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: She's talking to clients.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: She's looking up stuff on her laptop while she's riding down the road and the car's doing all the work for her.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: I will say, in a city like Atlanta, where you spend so much time in your car, yes, talking about picking up incredible amounts of productivity by not having to be behind the wheel.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: So I I I brought a Waymo here.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Did you?
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: I ordered an Uber from my hotel to come meet you here.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And it was uh I was also on the phone having a conversation with somebody.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't realize it.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, it gives you the option to opt out of the Waymo.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: And I missed that because I was talking to somebody on the phone.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: So lo and behold, I get downstairs and it's a Waymo waiting on me.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: First time?
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, it was not my first time, which is why I would have declined it.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: And the situation I ran into with the Waymo, which is why I'm like, oh, you want a car without a steering wheel?
1:40
SPEAKER_01: It didn't want to make the right hand turn out of the parking lot because there was a car on the other side of the road.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Awesome would be been making a left.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And that driver kept waving the Waymo on like it wanted it to go first.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: And the Waymo wanted it to go first.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So we we waited there for like three minutes where what felt like 20 for that guy eventually pull out and then the Waymo went.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I want to just be like, dude, move.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh uh.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: You know.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: I feel like that's a parable for uh mortgage originators right there.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: It's like, dude, just move, just get going.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Yes, just just keep going.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes, just keep going.
2:14
SPEAKER_02: I have the mirror analogy about getting into the mortgage business.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: If you wake up and look in the mirror and and you look at the mirror and go, I know 100% of the responsibility for this succeeding or failing is on who I see.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: If that thought paralyzes you, pick something else.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Go do something else that's got a nice base salary.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, time off is yours.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you could do in this business.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: You could get into operations or whatever.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: But if you look in that mirror and know 100% of this succeeds or fails with me, and I'm all right with that because I've experienced being the tail of the dog, and I don't want to be the tail of the dog anymore.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: You're in the right spot.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: And just go.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: What I love about this business from my personal, and you would probably agree with me, because you know, listen, I I work 100% commission too.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Like we only get paid when we close loans.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I get paid in direct correlation to that effort and skill set that I bring.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Like I 100% am in control.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: Right.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't need to come to you and ask for a raise.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: If I want one, I go out and earn it.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I love about this.
3:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, I'm separating myself from the field based on what I do.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: So glad you didn't said you're not going to ask for a raise.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Well, when we go to dinner later, well, it's a different conversation.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I did tell you I'm driving a 10-year-old car, Mark.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Let's get you some carpet.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: All right.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: So, hey, let me ask you a question since we're talking about the careers.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: And we both have uh children that are in college.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, how how would you advise your your children to get into this business?
3:48
SPEAKER_01: But based on where we think it, where it could be going.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't there's a big fear in our business right now that AI is going to take over everything, not just operations, but sales.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: So based on that, the environment we're in right now, would you I think I would, and here's why.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: First of all, I would I think being an entrepreneur is a good idea.
4:06
SPEAKER_02: Be it be an entrepreneur, especially at a young age, right?
4:10
SPEAKER_02: You've got the whole world in front of you.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: If you if you take a couple of swings and you fail, you've got tons of time to make make it up.
4:16
SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, this business is in and around.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: What is our job?
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Our job is to sell money.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: We make money by selling money.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Understand how money works, right?
4:29
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of advantage to understanding how money moves and can create a great economy.
4:36
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And how the absence of velocity of money, like what we saw in 2008, 2009 in the Great Recession, can also destroy an economy.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: And once you begin to understand that and how money works, you can leverage it in so many ways, so so much understanding, whether that's, hey, I'm going to be the person that on the side buys fix and flips, and I'm going to, that's what I'm going to do.
4:56
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe I'm just going to pick up some investment properties and I'm going to be a landlord.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm not into the renovation thing, but I just want to create a nice nest egg of properties over here that generate passive income for me.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: Or maybe I just want to have these conversations with my clients about how they can employ arbitrage and they can borrow money at one rate and earn a higher rate with some investments, and that spread is the lifeblood of every financial institution.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Whatever it is, you don't get there unless you insert yourself into the game, you know, into this game.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: And it's a beautiful thing because of that.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: I do still love the mortgage industry.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lot of value and a lot of learning that can come from it.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: It's not uh where I want it to be, but I think it can get back there.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: I think the industry can get back there.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: And I would, I have a son and a daughter and a stepdaughter.
5:43
SPEAKER_02: The one who has shown the most interest in it is my daughter.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: And she's an intern with us this summer, fourth summer in a row.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I met her last summer, yeah.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: And she started to show a little bit of interest in it.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: And if she wanted to do it, I would 100% support it.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: So the first thing that you said, and I am absolutely I love that you said it, entrepreneur.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't think enough of us as loan originators in sales in this business see ourselves as entrepreneurs.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: You don't run your business like a business, you're you're running it like you're an employee of a business.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: That's the wrong way to look at it.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: Even as even as the owner of a mortgage, independent mortgage bank, you know, as I look at the world, I'm really, I guess I'm your employer because I can provide some medical benefits for you and certain infrastructure of a loan origination system.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm really your conduit.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm just a conduit from you to the investor that's going to ultimately purchase the loan.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And we're going to help you with warehouse lines and, you know, underwriting help desks and some pieces of technology that are going to make things more efficient for you.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: But it's your business, man.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: Like if you want to grow it, go grow it.
6:54
SPEAKER_02: But you know, you've got to take, you've got to be the one to embrace the idea that you're 100% owner of your own business.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: And listen, we're going to be here to help you along the way, right?
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I think the great part about that is yes, you're an entrepreneur, but you got some business partners who are also invested in you doing it.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: Sure.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the things that we provide.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: From a loan originator's perspective, right?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that we're conversations that we're having that we're talking about right now is how do I not make myself a commodity?
7:26
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: We're seeing be also because of the advent of AI, we feel like there's a commoditization of this business.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: You agree with that?
7:36
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: What are some things like from an LO's perspective, if you were giving advice to some other folks who feel that same way, how are you overcoming that?
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Really understand beyond quoting interest rate and closing costs, how to present financial information.
7:53
SPEAKER_02: For instance, you're presenting, uh, you know, nobody loves paying points, right?
7:58
SPEAKER_02: When you're quoting a mortgage rate to a client, I can't tell you how many clients are like, I'm not paying points.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: What's your what's your par rate?
8:05
SPEAKER_02: What's your no points rate?
8:06
SPEAKER_02: That's what I want to know.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: That's that's how common that question is.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: And that's that I love that question because it leads me into why don't you want to pay points?
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, because I'm going to refinance later.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Well, what makes you think you're going to refinance later?
8:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, when rates come back down, where are they going?
8:22
SPEAKER_02: How how far down do you think that they're going?
8:24
SPEAKER_02: And which leads you into, well, let me pull up a chart of the 30-year fix and tell you that outside of the time when the Fed was buying mortgage-backed securities, the 30-year fix has never gone below 5.375%.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: So you thinking that that, you know, getting a rate at six and a quarter with no points or six and a half with no points, you're just going to refinance later.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Let me talk to you about how challenging that's going to be for you.
8:46
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, in January 2023, the FHFA worsened the loan level price adjustments on refines for rate term or cash out.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: So it's not the same as purchase rates that you're seeing based upon your credit score and what you develop.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: By the way, thank you.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: So having those conversations, how many originators are having those conversations?
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Man, I the way you just had it with me, I can't imagine it a lot.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: And then we start talking about points and go, well, you know, for primary residence, discount points are fully tax deductible in the year in which you close.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
9:17
SPEAKER_02: It's not so for second home or investment property.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: And they might say, Well, I claim the standard deduction.
9:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe this is the year not to do that.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: Maybe this is the year for you to itemize and claim those discount points.
9:26
SPEAKER_02: You know, and let's let's do the math.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: And if you go out and say, Yeah, you're at month one in the duration of your loan, the no points option is the no-brainer.
9:36
SPEAKER_02: At month 60, I bet it's opposite of that.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: Do you have a calculator to show them that?
9:43
SPEAKER_02: Not just in theory, but in practice, like in actual dollars and cents.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:47
SPEAKER_02: Can I show you that at month 60, you're going to be$7,887 to the good by paying these points?
9:54
SPEAKER_02: And I haven't even factored in your tax deduction yet.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: By the way, I'm also making you unrefinanceable.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: And I know I might be taking a transaction out of my pocket down the line.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: I know that doesn't sound like a good business idea for me, but I'm not here to advocate for me.
10:07
SPEAKER_02: I'm here to advocate for you.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the conversation that originators need to be having.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: And that's how you make yourself into something that's other than a commodity.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: But I'm glad you brought up the commodity discussion because it's one that's near and dear to my heart right now, and it's one that I struggled with today.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: And I want to tell you what happened to that.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited.
10:25
SPEAKER_02: So I have a client right now, today, that has gone under contract.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: I know they went under contract because I got a copy of the contract from the listing agent and I saw my pre-approval letter at the top of the contract.
10:36
SPEAKER_02: They used my pre-approval letter.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So they used your pre-approval letter to leverage their contract getting accepted.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And then now they're shopping.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
10:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: And they're shopping with the people they couldn't get on the weekends and the people they couldn't get at night.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the the consumer direct portal that doesn't have an originator, or the Morgan Stanley Wealth Advisor, who is the last thing he's gonna do is talk to them at 9 p.m.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: on a Friday night or Saturday morning when they wanted to see the options and have a video chat, that now they're shopping.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: And this is where I'm gonna have a conversation, not just with you, but with the referral partners that are listening to this.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: If you're a real estate agent and you're on the selling side or the listing side, you're on the buy side or you're on the listing side, I'm gonna ask you hey, what's really important here is that you use the letter for the lender with which the client is going to go.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Right.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: And it's because leveraging a relationship relationships that I have built and a reputation that I have built for 20 years, yes, to know that that client went under contract with that letter, and then to see that client turn around and just go shop for the lowest bot rock bottom price they can find is brutal.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: They're they're missing out that a large reason why their offer got accepted was because of you in the first place.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: And this is sort of the unsaid thing in our industry.
12:00
SPEAKER_02: And I think this podcast, if there's one thing that we can do here, it's to say the things that no one else is.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Let's be disruptive.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Let's let's say the things that no one else is either comfortable saying or is in the is in the trenches that knows to say.
12:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: The pre-approval letter is as much a statement about the lender as it is about the client.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Anybody can take a client and look at their documentation and go, they're credit worthy.
12:23
SPEAKER_02: Almost anybody can.
12:25
SPEAKER_02: Not anybody can say, Oh, I know that lender.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
12:28
SPEAKER_02: That lender never drops the ball.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: I close on time every time.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: When I call them, they pick up every time.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: When I email them, they email back every time.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: The pre-approval letter is as much a statement about the lender as it is about the client.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think not enough real estate agents and lenders talk about this.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: This is an important statement, right?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: That I think clients need to be aware of.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Because one of the reasons that you maybe get won that bidding war, or that maybe you got that that house under contract is because of the logo and the name that was attached to that pre-approval letter.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So you feel that's a conversation that more agents need to be having with their borrowers.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Like there's a reason I paired you with this person in the first place.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: And it was because it was going to give us an advantage in the market.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: And I know that these are hard conversations.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: Listen, it's hard for me to even talk to you and people that might listen to this about this because I fear of it might alienate.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: The last thing we want to do is to say anything that might be upsetting.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: But the reality, but that is the reality of it.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: And it's hard for me to sit there and have that conversation with the client because clearly I have a self-interest in mind.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: What would be helpful?
13:43
SPEAKER_02: And we can do this for our referral partners too.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: We as lenders should be talking about the value of a seasoned agent that has a stellar reputation in the community.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we got to do our part too.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: We got to do our part too.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: But we need them to reciprocate that.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think as long as we respect each other's right to be independent, but understand that we're also interdependent upon one another, I think we'll get we'll you know, we'll sort of refute this commoditization of our industry.
14:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So have you been having any of these conversations?
14:12
SPEAKER_02: I've started having these conversations with a few real estate agents.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: I did on this particular transaction with the real estate agent.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, she came to understand where I was coming from.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: I do think it's a challenging conversation to have with your client because you don't want to tell them what to do.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: But I think we can shine a light on it.
14:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and maybe that's our our highest calling in anything is just to shine a light on something and say, hey, hey, you know what?
14:37
SPEAKER_02: Not for nothing.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: You guys are incredible clients and you made a great offer.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: But one of the reasons why your offer got accepted was the logo and the name that was on that pre-approval letter.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, a a similar story, but a totally different context.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: I uh we were talking about this earlier.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Had an LO reach out to me today that um the borrower literally reached out to them and said, I would like you to send me an LE with a locked rate.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: They wanted confirmation that the rate was locked so that they could use that to take it to somebody else to basically leverage their LE and their locked rate against you know, them looking at another limit.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: I want you to be my girlfriend, so I can go out and see if I can get any better girlfriend.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, it makes me wonder now.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: I as I'm saying it, one of the things I'm thinking about is did maybe the borrower think that the deal was too good to be true?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And the only proof that they would have that it wasn't is that it got locked.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I I would tend to think that they're just looking for the most rock bottom thing that they can get.
15:50
SPEAKER_02: And they they can show that they maybe someone in the past has said anybody can quote anything until you're locked in, you're not locked in.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: And so that's what that's I mean.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: I've probably used that line before.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I will say that I think that there's a piece to be written about this.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm a writer and I really enjoy writing, you know, articles about business and about the market and what drives it.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: There's a piece in my head that I've been wanting to write for a long time called Good Business, Bad Business.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: And good business is where the entity you're dealing with makes a fair profit and knocks it out of the park for you.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: Whenever I'm hiring a, you know, I renovated uh this house.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: And so this is this room used to be like a cinder block room with nothing in it, and now it's a little music studio.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: And I love playing guitar and I love playing keyboard and and writing music.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: And when I'm hiring a contractor to redo this room, to redo this basement, to redo this house, man, I want that contractor to make a fair profit and I want him to him or her to crush it for me.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
16:50
SPEAKER_02: Deliver on time and on budget, answer my phone when I call you, answer my emails when I reach out to you, build me a great product.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: I'll pair you if I'll pay you a fair price.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: That's good business.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: Taking that contractor and saying, give me your bid, and once you have worked your rear end off for me, I'm gonna go shop you around other contractors to see if I can save myself a couple thousand dollars here or a few hundred bucks there.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: That's bad business.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: That is just gonna poison that contractor to become a different version of what he or she was.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And at the end of it, well, what did I do?
17:23
SPEAKER_02: I just saved a couple of bucks and I probably wound up with an inferior product.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: Well, man, we have gone.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: We touched it all, baby.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: All over the place, all over the place uh here.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, but man, what a great conversation.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: What a good time.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Looking forward to the next one.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do it.