Latest / IAB Europe podcasts / Beyond the Basket: Why Non‑Endemic Brands Are the Next Big Wave in Retail Media

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Beyond the Basket: Why Non‑Endemic Brands Are the Next Big Wave in Retail Media · IAB Europe podcasts

• 0:05
  Welcome to the Retail Media Roundtable, the podcast Ivy Europe that dives into the dynamic world of retail media advertising.
• 0:13
  I'm retail advocacy, the industry development and insights director at Ivy Europe.
• 0:17
  And in each episode, I invite two expert guests from the property industry to share their insights, exchange ideas, and explore the latest trends and challenges shaping the retail media landscape in Europe.
• 0:29
  So whether you're here for practical tips, expert perspectives, or just a deeper understanding of this rapidly evolving space, the Retail Media Roundtable is your go-to for engaging and thought-provoking conversations.
• 0:41
  So grab a seat at the table and let's dive in.
• 0:45
  Hello everyone and welcome to IUB Europe's Retail Media Roundtable Podcast.
• 0:53
  In this episode, we're going beyond the basket why non-endemic brands are the next big wave in retail media.
• 1:03
  My name is Jason Westcott.
• 1:04
  I'm global head of commerce solutions at WPP Media.
• 1:09
  I'm also the chair of IB Europe's Retail and Commerce Media Committee.
• 1:15
  And I'm delighted today to be joined by Mazin Marui, who's head of Retail Media and Partnerships at Publicist Media Mina, and Christian Ravot, who is director of Retail Media Connect at Raver Group.
• 1:31
  Gentlemen, really, really happy to have you on.
• 1:38
  Same happy to be here, and thank you for having us, uh Jason and the team.
• 1:42
  Absolutely.
• 1:43
  So Mazin, let's go to you first.
• 1:45
  What's been your peak of the week?
• 1:49
  We can say it's a week, it's it's Thursday, so we've had most of the week, but what's been a highlight for you this week?
• 1:55
  Well, it has been a very interesting week for me personally.
• 1:58
  I'm not sure if you have seen the news, but we won at the Drum Commerce Award in Miami.
• 2:04
  Uh, I won my first gold uh with this new uh Reason Media project and my new role that I took over in January.
• 2:12
  So we got the best in store activation for uh Helian and Tobuses.
• 2:16
  And for me, this means a lot because I have built this project from scratch with uh Math and Carrefour.
• 2:22
  It took me nine months to actually build from the screen, from the SSP RFP, from really every single element.
• 2:28
  So it means a lot for me to see that project going globally and winning an award.
• 2:33
  So I'm still celebrating every day, I'm still over the moon.
• 2:35
  I'm so happy that I was able to really make it to Miami, not personally, but the award and winning it.
• 2:41
  Congratulations, um, Mazen.
• 2:44
  And um, I bet that reward I bet that award just seemed amazing.
• 2:49
  Reward the effort.
• 2:50
  All of all of the exactly reward and award, all of that um hard work for nine months, um, thoroughly richly um deserved.
• 2:57
  So congratulations to thank you, thank you, and um and the team.
• 3:01
  It was um it was great.
• 3:02
  I know that was the the first inaugural commerce media awards from um the drum, and obviously a great ceremony out in um Miami.
• 3:09
  I know we picked up a few wins um as well.
• 3:12
  Congratulations, I saw that.
• 3:13
  Thank you.
• 3:14
  So it looks like it was an absolutely fantastic um event.
• 3:16
  But yeah, very, very happy for you, um Mazin.
• 3:19
  Congratulations.
• 3:20
  Christian, how about how about you?
• 3:22
  Um, how's your week been?
• 3:24
  Uh well, I had a great week so far.
• 3:27
  It's a short week in uh Germany, by the way, because we have uh Labor Day tomorrow.
• 3:32
  So uh therefore it's just a four-day uh working week.
• 3:36
  Um and I just came from uh Vienna.
• 3:39
  Uh I was there yesterday with uh the greater retail media team across the River Group.
• 3:46
  Uh we met for the third time to discuss uh retail media tactics um across Europe, uh, in a sense that uh we do have some retail media activities outside of Germany, uh especially in Austria, where we are like really going strong.
• 4:03
  Uh, we will start now also in other countries like Romania.
• 4:07
  I'm very much looking forward to it.
• 4:09
  And it was great uh to have this positive energy.
• 4:12
  Everyone is really uh hyped to to go after uh retail media, but to to go after it in a thoughtful way.
• 4:20
  And uh so we're super productive, super happy uh how it all panned out.
• 4:25
  Oh, congratulations, Christian.
• 4:27
  Yeah, it is super exciting the way that retail and commerce media is expanding into some of these less um mature markets, and there's so much innovation and there's so much ambition there as well.
• 4:38
  So that that that sounds really um promising and um and a great week that you've had.
• 4:43
  Um have you got any plans for your long weekend?
• 4:46
  Well, there's there's a traditional ceremony um which is called uh dance in the May, if I translate it.
• 4:54
  And uh so yeah, so uh we'll be going out uh dancing this evening.
• 4:59
  Oh, that sounds that sounds um perfect.
• 5:02
  I wish um I wish I could join.
• 5:04
  We we do have a UK bank holiday here um on Monday.
• 5:06
  My I'm just having a barbecue, um, so I'll I'll try and fit some dancing in as well.
• 5:10
  I'll I'll play some music.
• 5:12
  That's never wrong.
• 5:14
  Great, right, great.
• 5:16
  Well no, great to get um introduced.
• 5:18
  Let's get into the questions.
• 5:20
  So the topic one is um why are non-endemic brands suddenly paying attention to retail media?
• 5:26
  And Mazin, I want to go to you on this one first.
• 5:29
  Sure.
• 5:30
  I think that's a very interesting topic.
• 5:32
  But now I feel it's a hot trend or the trend that is happening around the globally retail media, but also in the region.
• 5:39
  I think there are many reasons on why brands, especially in an endemic, are going after retail media on the off-site or on-site, both, but I think on off-site more.
• 5:47
  I think one, if you look into the history of brands and what's happening when Google said the cookiness and no more cookies, that really shifted the brand strategy into really how can we identify our consumer and really talk to the person that we are can relate to or that can really create our brand.
• 6:02
  So the cookiness uh era or the the project that has been done by Google has impacted that mindset, the shift to really finding audiences from a brand perspective.
• 6:13
  The second one, I think retail media in general is being a hot topic.
• 6:16
  So there's a lot of interest around it from the IAB, from the events happening.
• 6:22
  So brands are more curious to understand okay, how can retail media or data in particular help us in achieving our media and business objectives?
• 6:30
  So that's really something that also has been shifting the mindset of brands.
• 6:35
  And then let's talk now about retailers.
• 6:38
  Retailers they own a very niche or rich data as well that can play a big role for an endemic brands.
• 6:47
  Um we have been working with many brands, and then you can look into real estate, right?
• 6:52
  You can look into insurances, you can look into banks as well.
• 6:56
  And today in the region, I think it's a bit different than Europe, where um we have three of the biggest retailers.
• 7:03
  Each of the retailers they have like they have malls, they have community, they have real estate, and then what they are doing, they are collecting all this data into one loyalty system.
• 7:13
  That potentially in the UE, we have a population of 10 million, but then that unique um uh retailer has five million unique IDs.
• 7:22
  So we're talking 50% of the whole population, even though if you look into the adults who are spending money, that's a massive amount of 70% almost.
• 7:31
  So that data is very enriched, and that's also is getting the attraction needed for Brandson and Demic to really say, okay, I want to be part of it, I want to explore how can I find someone who will might buy my real estate, right?
• 7:44
  And then what we do, we look into tiering.
• 7:46
  So who spends the most on specific loyalty app, the platinum tiering, the gold team, that we know that they have the power to purchase a house, and then we start reaching out to them.
• 7:56
  So for me, I really see a big interest.
• 7:58
  We see a great match between brands and retailers, and especially from a data perspective and off-site.
• 8:04
  That's where the brands now are keen to explore on really going into our media and an endemic partnership.
• 8:11
  Yeah, that that that connected and diversified services, um, linked services is really, really interesting and um and a little bit more unique to your market.
• 8:21
  I think I think that's great insights and and obviously makes sense around um loyalty and data and off-site.
• 8:28
  A very quick follow-up question to you, Mazin.
• 8:31
  Um, do you see do you see any potential for non-endemics with on-site retail media?
• 8:37
  Yeah.
• 8:37
  And what does that mean?
• 8:38
  Yeah, yeah.
• 8:39
  Yeah, that's also a very interesting topic.
• 8:41
  We had the great debate a few weeks ago, and I think we were discussing on the non-andemic on-site.
• 8:47
  And one unique partnership I started in Amina three years ago with the landmark.
• 8:51
  It was my first big partnership, so the Jig, it was honestly starting from on-site, off-site for non-andemic only.
• 8:58
  Um, we have been doing that.
• 9:01
  I think there is also a massive opportunity for the endemics, but then the only watch out that I have been working on with retailers is the consumer journey and the shopper experience.
• 9:13
  That whatever we need to build on for the non-endemic and putting the brands there from a programmatic perspective or using GoWet or other technology is to watch out of which ad are we doing.
• 9:26
  And what we have built kind of a standard framework with brands on guidelines on how we really put which brands, the frequency, which placement do we need to monetize.
• 9:38
  So I think important for any retailer who's hearing us out at the moment, as yet, non-andemic and onset is a very important piece of the retail ecosystem.
• 9:46
  But again, the watch out of really keeping the consumer on top of their mind on and really don't and manage it properly.
• 9:53
  So don't really harm that consumer experience at the end of the day.
• 9:56
  So don't prioritize revenue and placements over the consumer experience.
• 10:01
  Thanks, Massin.
• 10:02
  That that's um that's a great message, and that's a great point to bring in, uh, Christian.
• 10:06
  Um, so Christian, to you from you know, you're part of a very big and successful retailer who's doing retail um media.
• 10:14
  Can you build on that at all?
• 10:16
  Um, what what do you feel there's a non-endemic opportunity um within on-site at all?
• 10:21
  So maybe let's start with the old overall perspective from an advertiser.
• 10:25
  And and one would say, Well, you can advertise everywhere.
• 10:28
  Why would you want to advertise around or in a grocery store?
• 10:33
  It doesn't really make sense.
• 10:34
  And I say, well, yes and no.
• 10:36
  Uh first of all, um, there's quite a few people that are nowadays unreachable by by other means of media.
• 10:45
  Um, it's super hard to reach them via uh TV, it's super hard to reach them via social, etc., etc.
• 10:52
  And in order to get them, you need to get them where they are and uh where they form everyday purchasing decisions and uh that's at a store, right?
• 11:01
  Um then the second question is the question of reach.
• 11:05
  Um, because if you are offering or if you are giving your your offering uh to non-endemics, then you you uh have a broad array of customers with with us with Rieve and Penny in Germany alone, it's uh over 40 million customers uh who visit us every uh week.
• 11:24
  Uh so that's that's absolutely massive.
• 11:26
  Uh you you can't reach so many people uh with a with a normal TV spot.
• 11:31
  And um then also you have the ability to target because um even if I don't know even if the product cannot be purchased with us, we sure know what the advertiser has in mind in terms of a target group.
• 11:48
  Uh just a couple of examples.
• 11:50
  So we have already had uh non-endemic partners um like uh electric uh car producers, um, where we have had their uh their their brand story around stores where their showrooms were in the vicinity of those.
• 12:07
  And that makes perfect sense, right?
• 12:09
  You can you can even uh use uh a DCO to say now just around the corner, uh yeah, and uh try to test the car, etc.
• 12:19
  So it makes perfect sense to do it.
• 12:21
  Um you have the customers that you you can target, did I say brand safety yet?
• 12:27
  Uh right uh so good reasons, and and so therefore we have slowly, uh or let's not say slowly, but thoughtfully expanded our offering.
• 12:39
  Um, because uh we started with you know classical blacklist, whitelist approach, like what really do we do not want to see with us?
• 12:49
  And then on the other hand, what would be super favorable for us, where we see that there's a there's a broad um commonality between our objectives and the objectives of the advertiser, and mostly the the brands that uh apply are somewhere over there in the middle of either like completely whitelist, like we love to have them, or uh they're uh like let's say fitting enough for us that we say that doesn't really dilute our customer perception.
• 13:21
  That's that's so great.
• 13:22
  Um Christian, and and just to recap on that, I mean the reach point is huge, right?
• 13:27
  So 40, 40 million um weekly visitors is um is you know an immense number and a great opportunity to reach an audience.
• 13:38
  Um I love what you had to say around um and the way that you said it around brand safety um as well.
• 13:43
  Obviously, you know, very brand safe um environment.
• 13:45
  So I do feel like the the benefits are very, very clear um in perspective in relation uh to um the non-endemic opportunity.
• 13:54
  Staying with you, Christian.
• 13:56
  Um do you feel that retailers are are ready to support these more complex uh partnerships from a non-endemic perspective?
• 14:06
  And you can probably look at this through a technical lens and an organizational lens as well.
• 14:12
  Um I can see I can say to both if you if you play it right, it's actually easier uh than working with endemic players.
• 14:23
  And I can tell you why.
• 14:25
  Uh because with endemic players, you you also have to sort out uh if the distribution is there uh at the right places, etc.
• 14:34
  Um, and uh that alone uh drives the complexity.
• 14:38
  When you have non-endemics, so my my uh my my first idea would be to say um to to establish a dedicated either person or team who covers that, uh, that you have a one-phase to the customer approach there, that you do not have to deal with like a mixture of different persons uh around the company uh organizationally.
• 15:02
  Uh I think that makes a lot of sense.
• 15:04
  And the other question is that with with all the technical progress, especially around digital signage over the last years with retailers, uh, to mention uh programmatic buying and these kind of things.
• 15:18
  Um for me, now it's fairly easy to book non-endemic into our system.
• 15:24
  And I can I I would assume that this is also the same with many other retailers.
• 15:30
  Just to give you an example, um, one of our most loyal um customers, uh non-endemic customers, um, is a furniture store.
• 15:40
  And they are now booking that programmatically for over a year, small batches where it makes sense, uh in again in the in the vicinity of their stores or when they have new openings, etc.
• 15:53
  Um, and the the I only see it through through the lens of my my Salesforce front end, right?
• 16:00
  Uh there's not much organizational or technical hassle uh because they just you know work with the systems that are you know commonplace in the industry.
• 16:11
  That's a great place to be in.
• 16:12
  Um and once you've once you've built up that um relationship and the familiarity is there and the trust is there and the automation is is there, you know, you'll you you're giving the advertiser exactly what they want and and need.
• 16:24
  Um so that was a great example, Christian.
• 16:27
  Love what you had to say around um non-endemics, um not having the same challenges as you do with endemics, you know, in relation to you know, matching up the trade conversations and and everything to do on the retail side of things as well.
• 16:43
  It's a really, really good point.
• 16:44
  Okay, so moving on.
• 16:46
  Um, what misconceptions do you still hear about retail media being only for CPG or endemic brands?
• 16:54
  And um, I'll come back to you, Mazin, on this one.
• 16:57
  Yeah, perfect.
• 16:58
  But I wanted to comment on something Christian mentioned because he reminded me of a uh topic that we had with the client, I think last week or the week before, on brand safety.
• 17:07
  And one thing that we were really saying on why and or one important key why you should be there for the retailers on an endemic is the trust, right?
• 17:18
  I mean, brand safety, including uh viewability, visibility, uh all the brand challenges and so on.
• 17:25
  I think all these are not available when you work with retailers because the the site is safe, it's secured, you get the top placement, and you get the trust of the shoppers and the retailer when when you when you are there.
• 17:36
  So that's something that I think also a great added value for an endemic uh brands to be able to activate the campaigns on on site for with retailers.
• 17:45
  Um great build, Mazen.
• 17:50
  Um so I'll come back to the um I'll come back to the question again.
• 17:55
  Um so what misconceptions do you still hear about retail media being only for CPG or endemic brands?
• 18:05
  Yeah, I think maybe our region is different than Europe.
• 18:10
  Let's be frank.
• 18:10
  I mean, we are we are the um new entries to retail media, I mean, we are just enjoying that new ecosystem.
• 18:19
  I mean, it has been there for a couple of years, but in MENA it has been growing massively with all the different applications and the quick commerce and so on.
• 18:26
  I think I would take a step back.
• 18:28
  I think there's a lot of misconception about really the whole retail media.
• 18:33
  So, what people think between commerce media, retail media, trade marketing, I think that what we are doing in the region, a lot of education with our partners on really educating the differences between them.
• 18:46
  Um, and then retail media is not a CPG, it's only it's not only a CPG, like it's not suddenly think okay, retail media is only for CPGs.
• 18:53
  No, it's not.
• 18:55
  Um, retail media also could be for as an endemic for electronics, right?
• 19:00
  There's a lot of uh consumer electronic shops, there's smart phones like Samsung and so on.
• 19:06
  This also could be called endemic, right?
• 19:08
  So the definition of endemic and endemic also needs to be clarified for everyone from a really 101 retail media.
• 19:18
  So that's also something that we have seen a lot.
• 19:21
  Um, I think for me as well, the the definition of what is trade marketing, what's the budget is coming from?
• 19:28
  Okay, when do we say it's commerce media, who are the commerce players, and really where do we put, for example, all in-store media?
• 19:36
  So all these different elements are still quite challenging, and we are putting a lot of really efforts into bringing a and of course with IB Europe and IB Mina, we are doing multiple events, we are doing all the sessions, and this session thing is today, and everything efforts that we're doing all of us is to really educate our partners and everyone in the market on really the purpose of each channel and how we can benefit from it, and how publishers and retailers can come and partner with the brands and advertisers to really bring the best out of it to solve either a business problem, or you want to sell more items, or you just want to be there to show the your consumers or potential consumers your ad.
• 20:18
  So I think that's for me in a summary the the really misunderstanding, I would say, and I think it all all goes back to really putting our efforts into education and and really helping each each other to grow that uh piece.
• 20:32
  Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
• 20:33
  So focus focus on the um focus on the offer and the outcomes, um, right.
• 20:39
  That that that makes a lot of sense.
• 20:40
  And I think the way you started off your response as as well of you know being geographically specific is is a really good uh point.
• 20:50
  And I would extend that as well to markets that are more marketplace-led from an e-commerce perspective versus other markets that may be more grocery-led from an e-commerce perspective.
• 21:02
  And clearly the latter is gonna be more CPG focused, whereas marketplaces probably don't dabble as much in um CPG.
• 21:09
  So that's gonna bring lots of other categories um in into play.
• 21:13
  So I think it's hard to kind of put an overall um label on it, but hear what you're saying.
• 21:18
  Um, Christian, I'm gonna come to you on on this.
• 21:20
  How should retailers think about balancing endemic and non-endemic demand without diluting the shopper experience?
• 21:32
  Uh that's a that's a great question, and you can be sure that this question uh is uh sometimes also fired at me.
• 21:40
  Um because obviously uh we want to sell the goods that we have in store, and we want to help CPGs sell more, especially now in you know in uh intense times also for branded products, uh, to basically use our ability.
• 22:00
  To help them sell more and sell sufficiently.
• 22:05
  So therefore, this question always comes up.
• 22:09
  And my answer to it is I think it's easier in grocery.
• 22:14
  And as you just said, because we have quite a bit of demand from the CPG side.
• 22:20
  And so therefore, it's not that I can have like 50% of my space being made available for non-endemic.
• 22:27
  So I would say I don't, in reality, I do not really see the problem.
• 22:34
  That's the one thing, just from a you know, mathematical perspective, that I would I would never have so much non-endemic that this is going to happen, I would say.
• 22:45
  But also from the from the other side, uh, and I I again uh would would would point out to the fact that an advertiser is not dumb.
• 22:56
  Yeah, and they they do not just out of pure dumpness book uh a slot uh in a in a grocery store.
• 23:02
  Uh they will have a good reason for it, and the reason will be uh that it is relevant for the customers, right?
• 23:09
  And this relevancy thing is super important because what kind of non-endemic stuff do I see?
• 23:15
  Uh I see services that are like closely connected to our river stores.
• 23:20
  For instance, we have uh EV stations in front of our store.
• 23:24
  Um, then the partner advertises um on our premises.
• 23:30
  Makes perfect sense, and it is uh it is an extra service uh for a customer uh to basically pay attention to that.
• 23:37
  Um on the other hand, uh you have uh, as I just said, the the regional um advertisers where uh the the proximity to the stores, one of the key arguments here.
• 23:49
  Uh, and then you also have seasonal products, right?
• 23:51
  Um like products that have a good fit to uh the the season, also probably products that we have in our store.
• 24:00
  Let's say, I don't know, uh a great uh coffee machine, yeah, uh something like that.
• 24:06
  Um makes perfect sense if you advertise this around the perfect timings when when people tend to buy the stuff, which is around often around uh wintertime, Christmas, or around Black Friday.
• 24:19
  Why not advertise for something that makes or that has a high relevance for people who go into a grocery store probably to buy coffee, right?
• 24:30
  So these kinds of things uh you you should match.
• 24:33
  And then there's not really a delusion, but it's more an addition uh to our offering rather than anything else.
• 24:40
  Thanks, Christian.
• 24:41
  Um great answer.
• 24:43
  And my two biggest takeaways from that was one, let's not make an issue where there isn't an issue.
• 24:51
  And I think you just made a great point that uh naturally you know the the demand is not saturated for um non-endemics.
• 25:00
  So if there's some kind of balance or equilibrium already there, you know, we don't need to make it an issue of something that that's not an issue.
• 25:08
  And I think um I think my quote of the podcast will be advertisers are not dumb, um, which was an absolutely brilliant thing um to say, and they're certainly not um dumb from my agency perspective, they very much um keep me on my toes.
• 25:23
  Um so um so yeah, absolutely right.
• 25:26
  I mean that there's a reason for everything and there's um irrelevance and they know where they want to place um their ads.
• 25:33
  So fantastic answer.
• 25:34
  Thank you, Christian.
• 25:36
  So next we're gonna move on to what um unique advantages do non-endemic brands gain from retail media that they can't get from traditional digital channels.
• 25:50
  And I guess Mazin, I'll come to you because you know, I'm I'm assuming you deal with a range of different um advertiser clients.
• 25:57
  And whilst you're you're um head of retail media, you're also head of of partnerships um as well, so you're gonna have a good broad experience of um you know digital beyond retail media as as well.
• 26:07
  Um what what are your thoughts on this?
• 26:10
  Yeah, uh I think that's a great question.
• 26:12
  And I think there are so many benefits and unique benefits that a brand will benefit from.
• 26:19
  But I don't know if you remember over 10 or 11 years ago when Google launched this purchase intent, the third-party data and the life stages, and then we were celebrating back in 2014, 15.
• 26:33
  Now we can target someone who's getting married.
• 26:35
  And back in the day, I used to work on Richmond, so we used to do Mont Blanc and the gifting, and now we know someone is graduating, and then now, wow, we can really go uh do the ads for someone or his parents, someone in the environment, or someone who got his first uh got married, or someone who got a baby.
• 26:52
  So these are life stages where 11 years ago were really hard to get, and then we were celebrating in the media and marketing environment.
• 26:59
  Okay, now we can do amazing dynamic creative based on that.
• 27:03
  I think today, 10 years down the road, we are in a much more powerful position where we have much more details on consumers based on consumer behavior and purchase intent and actual purchases going back into three years in time in the region with all our retail partners, where we can identify what they're purchasing.
• 27:24
  Is it a house?
• 27:26
  Is it a from a furniture?
• 27:27
  Is it groceries?
• 27:28
  So it's not I'm not talking about grocery anymore because I told you in the region here we have access to retailers who own smalls.
• 27:35
  So we know that you have bought Swarovski or Cartier and so on.
• 27:38
  We know that you have took your kids to a uh kids' menu and you played in the weekend.
• 27:43
  So we know that you know that we have a baby because you are buying from mother care or uh so on.
• 27:48
  So I think the the unique point today that we that retail media offers is segmenting those audiences to meet every objective of every campaign that you have or you might have to be able to really buy your product.
• 28:04
  And I'm talking about a resident or even a tourist, because as you know, we are 90% here resident, but expat.
• 28:13
  The the country, the region here is also very um, we have so many millions of tourists every year as well.
• 28:19
  So we work with the metro.
• 28:20
  So we we have also access to the metro card if that's a uh card which is coming as a tourist or as a resident.
• 28:27
  So today, working with non-endemic from cars, from travel, from getting a credit card or bank financial institution, we can really customize those segments and talk to every consumer based on their loyalty tiering and the purchasing power that they are doing every single month and showing the right product for them.
• 28:49
  Is it a one-bedroom or two bedroom or three bedrooms?
• 28:52
  Is it a basic credit card or is this infinity credit card?
• 28:56
  So this is really a unique selling selling point or really benefit.
• 29:00
  And this will help, as Krishna said, you are getting the right reach.
• 29:03
  You are reaching to the right consumers, right?
• 29:06
  You are eliminating any waste.
• 29:07
  So from an efficiency perspective, this is massive because you are really eliminating all the other and none the waste from your media perspective that you can get on traditional, but then also from an effective perspective, you are talking to the right person.
• 29:21
  And then on top of that, we add the layer of creativity.
• 29:24
  So what we have been doing today, we when we push these segments into Meta, Tech Talk, and DV, we don't show the same message for every single one because uh here on the call, you have we have three different personas who we have three three different habits of uh purchasing, or we have families or kids and so on.
• 29:41
  So we talk with every segment differently with the message to be able to really convert that.
• 29:47
  And I think another big benefit as well, which we have been working on with uh cars, is when today we are also adding gamification to the retail media either on site or in app and so on.
• 29:59
  And what one thing that we have done as well for an endemic is when you order food and then you follow the C where is your delivery, we change that icon, for example, to a the car brand.
• 30:11
  And then we put also we added that dynamic creative as well at the end when you purchase as well.
• 30:16
  We can we added, for example, if you want to visit a specific uh location.
• 30:20
  So I think from really just to summarize it, I think the brand gain a lot or brands gain a lot because they can talk to the right person and then show the right message and be able to really take them to the right place.
• 30:35
  Either it's a location, we can also do location-based targeting, so we can really use that as well, or if they want to uh we work we work with Bliss or other partners who can really measure that.
• 30:45
  And then I don't want to forget the measurement, right?
• 30:48
  Today it's not about robots and as a grocery, what we were saying earlier, you can have the supply and then you can do the sales uplift.
• 30:55
  But today, again, the measurement needs to be a closed loop measurement in a way where we have a proper measurement from awareness consideration and purchase, and then the metrics are a bit different for endemics, but we can still measure everything because we can do MMM, we can do a brand of study, we can do uh uh work as I mentioned with the bliss to see how many people saw the ad on a retailer website or from offsite and went actually and visited a store to do a check or do a um test drive for a car or just went to a showroom and really checked that.
• 31:30
  So all these measurability or measure measurable uh elements are available, but then we have to work with a retailer to also educate them, change their mindset, because most of them, or some of them I would say, are really focusing on CPG and endemic, and that takes a bit of change management and education also to for them to really focus on what are the media metrics, what do how do I shift to also programmatic?
• 31:52
  Because programmatic is a bit different, right?
• 31:54
  So uh it's a different way of buying different infrastructure.
• 31:58
  So all this also goes into really supporting the the retailer on that, especially while a media agency, as you know, just we have been doing that as well for a while.
• 32:06
  So we have the expertise to support retailers in their transformation from endemic to non-endemic.
• 32:11
  Thanks, Massan.
• 32:13
  So right person, uh, right message, right place.
• 32:18
  You know, that that that came across um super, super clear.
• 32:23
  And I and I love um the point around you know dynamic and more tailored messaging.
• 32:28
  Can I can I add to this?
• 32:30
  Of course you can, Christian.
• 32:31
  Yeah, of course.
• 32:32
  Yeah, just I have one thing uh in my mind, and uh it was a campaign idea that ultimately we we weren't uh able to do, but but just to give you an example of of what is what is able, what is possible, right?
• 32:46
  Um so uh we were dealing with uh a car company uh who sells or wanted to introduce an electric transporter specifically for handymen.
• 32:57
  Yeah, so so it's basically a professional car if you wanted to.
• 33:01
  And um the the idea was um that usually handymen come into our stores very early, um, like at seven o'clock, yeah, before they go to work uh elsewhere, uh they come to us and they buy um uh a brütchen, which is which is bread or any other snacks, uh maybe a red bull, and so on and so forth, uh, so that they are that they are strong enough for the day.
• 33:27
  And um so the idea was to play out the spot for this specific transporter just between the time uh at between seven and nine uh in stores where they where there are bakeries, where basically it was pretty clear that this kind of target audience would be.
• 33:48
  And uh, you know, if you if you do this in a right and creative way, you are able to even try to reach very specific audiences you would never reach elsewhere.
• 34:01
  Um, because you know, out of the 40 million, there's always the possibility, if you if you think a little bit creatively, uh, to find a way um like how to dissect it in a way that it makes sense for for your target audience and then come at them in a way that it that it's attractive to them.
• 34:19
  So um everything that Mazen said makes a lot of sense, uh, and I can I can double down on this.
• 34:25
  Uh there's so much possible uh in the in the realm of uh uh retail media at grocery, at DIY, everywhere.
• 34:32
  So uh yeah, it's a great chance.
• 34:34
  It's a brilliant example, Christian.
• 34:36
  Thank you.
• 34:36
  Thank you for sharing um that.
• 34:38
  I love the handyman example.
• 34:41
  Um I pass a lot of tradesmen in the morning um on my way to the gym because I go very early.
• 34:48
  And um I have a great local bakery.
• 34:51
  Um, and all of the tradesmen go in there very early, you know, 6, 6, um 30 to load up um with their rolls and their coffee and their donuts and everything else.
• 34:59
  Um, so yeah, if I wanted to advertise something to these tradesmen, I I would wear a sandwich board.
• 35:04
  This is the place, and that's why all they are they are waiting in line, they have the time.
• 35:09
  Exactly, exactly.
• 35:10
  Um, so it's a great, it's a great example.
• 35:13
  Um cool.
• 35:14
  Okay, well, look, I think I think we've um I think we've covered um you know the the non-endemic um opportunity and um and some of the nuances there in um a lot of of detail.
• 35:26
  So much great stuff has has come out from this conversation.
• 35:29
  We're gonna wrap things up with something a little bit uh different.
• 35:34
  So this is like a quick fire round um and not related to um non-endemic, but um Christian, I'm gonna stay with you and um we we see each other a lot on the um monthly um retail and commerce media committee calls, um, which is great.
• 35:50
  We also bump into each other a lot at um lots of different retail and commerce media events uh across Europe, which is great to see you in person.
• 35:59
  Um it's 2026.
• 36:01
  What is the retail media event that you're most excited to attend this year?
• 36:08
  Well, there are quite a few, but to be brutally honest, uh it's it's our own event, uh the Retail Media Experience.
• 36:15
  Um we have this uh in September every year, and uh this year it's the fifth time that we'll do it, and it also marks our 10th anniversary of uh retail media.
• 36:27
  So it's uh it's going to be uh extra special.
• 36:30
  Um currently we are uh looking at to uh how to basically uh scope it with everything.
• 36:37
  Um and we are super happy also to have you on board.
• 36:40
  Uh so um that's uh that's a great catch.
• 36:43
  Um very much looking forward to it, and uh so it's gonna it's going to be great.
• 36:48
  So you you heard it here first.
• 36:50
  So we immediately uh experience.
• 36:52
  Um 10-year anniversary.
• 36:54
  I didn't realize that.
• 36:55
  So um congrats in advance.
• 36:56
  And that's a that's a really great milestone.
• 36:59
  It's it's massive and it's really fun going very, very slow, small HP pieces on the website to to now to be able to reach more than 40 million uh uh households every week.
• 37:10
  It's it's a great milestone.
• 37:12
  Yeah, amazing.
• 37:12
  Well, no, I can't can't wait to join you in um Cologne.
• 37:15
  So roll on September.
• 37:17
  Um Mazen, same same question.
• 37:19
  Um I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm really excited that we're gonna hopefully meet in person um soon.
• 37:24
  Yeah, 100%.
• 37:25
  But um yeah.
• 37:26
  I'm very excited that um now we have a ceasefire here, and then I can travel.
• 37:31
  So I'm heading to London in two weeks for the Retail Media X Award, um, which I'm really excited to see you all as well in London.
• 37:38
  And um, hopefully we can also score some wins.
• 37:40
  And honestly, we have a couple of finalists uh there.
• 37:43
  And then I think the second the other event that I'm really excited to go is to Singapore because I lived there, I lived in Vietnam for a long time, but never in the scope of retail media.
• 37:52
  I was at a um FMCG client and bank when I lived there.
• 37:56
  So this time I'm going as retail media and I want to see all the retailers and be there.
• 38:01
  I think the NRF Singapore will be very exciting.
• 38:04
  So I'm I booked everything.
• 38:06
  I'm so excited also to go to Singapore and be there as well.
• 38:09
  Amazing.
• 38:10
  Well, lots lots of things to look forward to.
• 38:12
  Um Mazin, I know IB Europe partners with um Retail X on the Retail Media X um event.
• 38:19
  Um really excited to that I'm gonna be seeing both of you um there.
• 38:25
  It's a really great event.
• 38:26
  So really, really looking forward to that one in um London.
• 38:29
  And yeah, Singapore sounds very exciting, um Mazen.
• 38:33
  So very, very happy um to hear that things have opened up for you and you're and you're able to do some um traveling and um and get out to to visit different places and and see people.
• 38:43
  That's um that's fantastic news.
• 38:45
  Um guys, uh thank you so much for an absolutely brilliant um podcast.
• 38:52
  So this was Beyond the Basket, why non-endemic brands are the next big wave in retail media.
• 38:59
  Um, I'm Jason Westcott, Global Head of Commerce Solutions at WPP Media and chair of IB Europe's Retail and Commerce Media Committee, saying a big, big thank you to Mazamaru of um head of Retail Media and Partnerships of Publicist Media Media, Mina and Christian Ravog, Director of Retail Media Connect at the Raver Group.
• 39:18
  Thank you so much, gentlemen.
• 39:20
  Appreciate it.
• 39:21
  Thank you so much.
• 39:22
  Thank you for having us.
• 39:23
  Thank you.
• 39:24
  It was a pleasure.
• 39:30
  Thank you for tuning in to the Retail Media Roundtable.
• 39:33
  We'll be back soon with another episode.
• 39:35
  So make sure to subscribe to stay updated.
• 39:38
  In the meantime, you can visit iBF.eu to explore the latest retail media resources and insights to help you navigate this dynamic space.