Latest / Real Estate for Real Life / Episode 20 • Build It to Sell It: What Makes a Business Truly Valuable with Matt Naimoli

Transcript

Episode 20 • Build It to Sell It: What Makes a Business Truly Valuable with Matt Naimoli · Real Estate for Real Life

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  On Real Estate for Real Life podcasts, we sit down with
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  standout business leaders to unpack what's actually working.
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  How they scale, lead teams, win clients and build businesses
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  that last. We're your hosts.
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  I'm Courtney Gauchman. And I'm Ryan Wilson.
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  Thanks for tuning in. Most entrepreneurs spend years
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  building a business. Very few know what it actually
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  takes to sell it, and very few know actually what it takes to
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  make it valuable. Today's guest has built a
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  nationally recognized company, sold it, navigated life after
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  the acquisition and now helps other business owners value
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  their business and sell it. We're welcoming Matt Namoli, who
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  is a partner at Legacy Advisors to the podcast today.
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  And thanks for for being here. Thanks for having me guys.
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  This has been something I've been looking forward to so.
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  We're fired up to have you. Yeah, anytime I get to spend
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  some time with you too. Oh, feelings mutual.
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  But if the cameras rolling, it's even better.
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  Way better, right? Because we're going to get some
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  good content here and we're excited to dive into a
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  conversation with you where we can actually learn a lot more
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  about not just running a business, but how you value a
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  business. Yeah, and we, I've known you for
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  15 years and we go way back through your early days.
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  So let's start there. You know, tell me, tell us what
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  it was like. OK, you're a baseball player at
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  UVM University of Vermont. And tell us about how it started
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  there and how that how that got your career rolling.
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  I love that you plugged baseball, not me.
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  So I can just be like, Oh yeah, sure.
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  Happy to happy to share. Yeah, yeah, you're a.
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  Stud player, obviously, obviously.
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  Yeah. No, I had.
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  I have a great, great pleasure to play baseball at University
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  of Vermont. I was a catcher and captain
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  there and my senior year I was, I was finally kind of realizing
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  graduations coming up soon. I need to kind of get serious.
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  I need to get some real world experience.
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  And I remember when I was young taking some tests about what I
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  should be doing and it always came back to sales and I was
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  like final, I'll lean into that. So I found a sales internship at
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  a Fortune 100 insurance company that was local to Burlington and
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  they agreed to give me like $19.00 an hour, which at the
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  time, wow, this is back in the 40s, Like they're rolling at
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  $19.00 an hour is significant, right?
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  You are rich. And I convinced the the
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  university and I'm sure it's been long enough since this has
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  happened. I can share this but I convinced
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  the university to give me credit so I was getting credits and
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  $19.00 an hour is a great internship I get.
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  I step in step in the office the first day.
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  It was either the first day or the second day the manager and I
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  don't know if he either retired, got fired or quit.
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  But whatever happened the manager who had hired me left.
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  So I am without a manager in a brand new internship, my first
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  like real world life experience with work and I didn't know what
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  to do. So but I still had the job.
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  So they were paying me. I'm I'm think I spent most of
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  the time playing baseball. The sales reps come into my
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  games like me getting coffee. And so of course, I fell in love
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  with insurance because this is a sales insurance, you know,
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  internship. I'm like, this is what the real
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  world's all about. I'm in.
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  Sign me up. It was like the best thing that
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  the company could have done that got me get me into insurance.
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  Someday I'll make 20 bucks an hour.
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  Yeah, or just 19. I'll say 19.
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  I'm happy with it. And so, you know, I graduated
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  and they offered me a job like a sales job.
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  And so I took that job and, and, and it was actually in
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  Framingham, MA. So that was how I got into the
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  insurance world. And then, you know, a few years
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  went by just hustling and trying to do my best like you guys do
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  with, you know, driving in as much networking and sales as
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  possible. Realized that that I enjoyed
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  sales. I liked the insurance world, but
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  entrepreneurship was really the thing that, you know, excited me
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  and building something yourself was really interesting to me.
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  So that's what sort of founded my first company, which is GNN
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  Insurance. That's so cool.
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  And that's when we met back in your GNN days, which for the
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  people listening, half of you will know, half of you will not
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  know. GNN was a legendary insurance
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  company in the real estate, residential real estate world.
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  It was it was the best parties, but more importantly, the best
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  providers of insurance in highest level of customer
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  service, which I truly believe. And I know a lot of the people
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  that used to work there with you.
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  So you built an amazing company. Tell us about how you started
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  that company and why you took that leap into entrepreneurship.
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  And also why, why you chose to do residential homeowners
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  insurance, right? Because that was a really
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  specific key piece of GNN. Is that what your internship was
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  too and your original insurance sales or were you selling all
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  insurance packages at that time? Yeah, as an intern, I, I, I
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  think I was learning how to like fill the toner and, and and get
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  coffee. You know, don't.
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  We could use some help around there was a little.
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  Bit there was a little bit of personal alliance, but no, we
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  when we started the company, it was for two reasons.
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  One, we knew we wanted to build something ourselves, right?
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  And two, we thought that offering choice to consumers was
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  going to be like radically new and different, right?
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  Because we were, we came from a captive, you know, Fortune 100
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  company that we only sold their product.
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  So selling multiple companies was like, well, that's, that's a
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  huge offering. This will really work.
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  And we realized quickly like, that's not that different from
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  all these other agencies out there and other entities.
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  And so I'd say like within a year, we kind of sat back and
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  said, what do we want to be? What do we want to be
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  remembered? What we want when people think
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  of us, who are we? Why do we matter?
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  And we identified our target clients like the, the our
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  favorite client to work with was that individual who was referred
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  to us by either a realtor, loan officer, attorney in the process
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  of buying their either first house, second house investor
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  property and needed that support through that transaction.
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  There was a, it was a time stamp, you know, there was a
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  closing, so it was pending time. Someone had to make a decision.
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  They needed what we had to offer instead of us trying to sell
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  them on what we had and and we were able to really kind of
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  create a whole process around helping people move through that
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  really big life decision. So it felt right helping, you
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  know, selling the other lines of business as well was an option.
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  But so we really had to take an assessment of what what really
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  works for us, what kind of clients do we enjoy and we we
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  want to grow the business around and identifying home buyers was
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  that, that that client. So starting with that target
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  client and then going upstream to who influences those clients,
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  loan officers, Realtors, attorneys.
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  And so we kind of burned the ships and went all in, not
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  because there were, it was the best strategy in the world, but
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  because it was something that worked for us a little bit and
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  we knew that we could expand on that.
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  And if you can grow, I feel like growing, you know, it's much
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  more important than finding the absolute ideal target client
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  long term. It's just like what works now
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  and can we can we expand on it? Yeah.
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  One of the things you mentioned was the need, you know, those,
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  those buyers needed that product.
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  You didn't have to sell them on the product so you could do.
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  And then this is what I think your company did really well was
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  you educated them on the options that they had.
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  And then the quote UN quote sales part of it was saying,
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  Hey, do you want to include auto because we can save you even
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  more money. So you're educating them on
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  everything. And then it's their choice.
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  And ultimately they need to make a decision if they want to go
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  with you, they can if they want to go somewhere else.
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  But you guys always have the most competitive rates because
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  you could shop it to 60 carriers, let's say.
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  And so I like that a lot. You know they needed a smart
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  business model too. Yeah, Yeah, we, we, we went all
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  in. I feel like niches do lead to
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  riches. And like we went all in and
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  allowed us to define the brand and, and why we mattered not
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  just to the customer and the client, but also the referral
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  partners and the network. And I think that allowed us to
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  really, you know, kind of grow vertically.
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  We got up to like 7% of all home sales in Massachusetts were
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  flowing through the agency at one point, which is pretty cool.
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  Yeah, that's incredible. And And yeah, you're right, we
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  got to, you know, really fun things like in that kind of led
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  into the so the bobblehead campaign and other things that
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  we did that were related to that.
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  What I love about the fact that you picked a specific niche and
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  you actually like went with that is that there's so many people
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  in these industries, right? Like as real estate agents, we
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  could technically try and sell to every single person out
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  there. Everyone can be your client.
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  Same with insurance. Anyone who owns a car owns a
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  house, right? Like property, like even
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  renter's insurance, there's so many human beings out there that
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  could be your actual client. And I think that a lot of people
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  make the mistake of, well, I don't want to be too siloed.
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  I don't want to exclude people in my audience base.
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  So what they do is they try and speak to everyone and you end up
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  speaking to no one. And I think from a marketing
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  perspective, that's what I've always been so impressed by is
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  how you guys managed to stick to your lane and then put, you
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  know, double down, triple down on all of your marketing
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  campaigns, which we'll get into the bobble heads because I think
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  it's so brilliant. But it was such a good strategy
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  to not say we don't not do you know, car insurance or even just
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  personal property insurance, all the other things.
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  But ultimately it's focused on the one thing that actually is
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  going to be able to make you multiply and continue to get
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  more and more business out of it.
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  And I do love that. How many years ago was that,
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  that you guys actually put that strategy in place?
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  We leaned into that like a year, 2 year, maybe a year and a half
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  into the business. So probably 2000 and. 11 a
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  really long time, right? And I still to this day work
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  with people that say, oh, I don't want to send an e-mail out
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  to buyers because what if sellers think that I don't work
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  with them? It's like you have to pick
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  something to talk about that's of value and actually tap into
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  an audience that's interested in what you're talking about.
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  And I think that people's fears of giving value and focusing
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  really aggressively on one topic is what's holding them back from
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  being able to actually grow and scale.
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  Couldn't agree more. I think sometimes there's a
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  short, short, short term downside because if you sort of
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  silo in on what you, what that's the one thing you're going to
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  do, you can alienate that, you know, those prospects that are
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  outside of that target, but that allows you to grow so much
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  faster in that, in that, you know, in that vertical.
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  And I think long term, it's such a more scalable plus nowadays
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  it's just there's so much noise. So being able to to resonate
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  with the the target group that you want, it's like it's pretty
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  essential. Yeah.
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  But also it's everything you do, you now say, does it stick in
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  this category, right. Does it stick to that category?
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  Your, your marketing efforts are going to be so much more
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  understood and noticed if you're actually continuing to stick to
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  that exact audience, right. So tell us about how the
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  bobbleheads and your entire marketing campaign came to be.
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  Yeah, I think it was inspired by Dwight Troot, my my former
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  business partner Zach and, and I think it might have been his
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  wife. That was probably the original
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  inspiration. But we, you know, we were
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  looking to do something custom and unique for, to thank, to
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  thank all of our partners for making referrals and
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  introductions. And so, and it was around the
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  time when the office was just booming and it was just
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  hilarious. It still is booming in my house.
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  Got to be honest, watch it all the time.
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  And so, yeah, we, we were given, we were given little miniature
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  bobble heads of ourselves like a year into business as like, kind
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  of like, congratulations, you haven't taken a dime and you,
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  you're still survived and grown the business.
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  And we had it on our desks for a little while.
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  And everyone, every, every time somebody came in, they'd either
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  be like weirded out or super complimentary.
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  But either way it would be a, it would be something they would
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  focus in on. And so I think it was our very
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  first like dollars spent on marketing.
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  And we said, you know what, let's just go all in.
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  And we had already identified this is our target, you know,
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  group Realtors, loan officers, you know, attorneys that are top
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  performers within the Massachusetts or New England
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  space. We looked them all up, probably
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  about 100 or so. We, we bought 100 bobble heads
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  from, you know, online company and had all of them made into
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  their individual referral partners and then either dropped
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  them off in person or, or hand delivered, you know, or mail
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  them out with a little note about what it meant to be part
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  of the Bob head community. And, and it caught on.
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  And, you know, Fast forward eight years, we made 1200 bobble
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  heads and, and, and, you know, of all the top Realtors,
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  attorneys and loan officers in, in the state.
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  And it kind of, you know, spawned other things.
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  You know, we spoke eventually insurance agencies caught on to
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  what we were doing. And, you know, groups and
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  associations started asking us, hey, would you mind spending
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  some time, you know, speaking at different conferences?
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  And so we started, you know, getting out of the just the real
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  estate space and spoke about what we were doing from a
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  marketing place as well As for, you know, what was working
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  organizationally for the business.
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  And eventually we spoke on stage at a few national conferences
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  about the bobble heads. And all of a sudden we had all
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  these insurance agents starting to reach out, be like, can can
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  we hire you to help us, you know, and consult with us?
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  And we're like, all right, well, we started a consulting business
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  eventually called Bobble on because clearly that was like a
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  catchy, you know, kind of trendy name for us.
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  And we started a podcast series and, and a, and a video series
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  to sort of highlight what we were doing in that and the
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  growth we were having, you know, the insurance agency.
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  But it'll also leverage that as a marketing, you know,
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  opportunity for the consulting business.
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  And we had a blast. We, you know, we, we spoke down
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  in Miami at Gary Vee's, you know, conference down in Miami.
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  We, we had, we had Ryan Serhant on one of our episodes for the
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  vlog. And we just had a ton of fun
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  like creating and being, you know, being silly almost, but
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  professional and silly at the same time in, in the real estate
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  community, you know, locally, but also with insurance agencies
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  and helping them as well. And it just sort of, you know,
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  kind of, I can't get away from, I can't get away from bobble
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  heads even today. Fast forward, you know, 15 years
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  from when we started the firm that I have that we, you know,
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  we support insurance agencies when they're looking to sell
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  their business. All our former clients, I make
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  them into bobble heads and they get a bobble head, a branded
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  speaker, a little video brochure as a thank you because it just
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  works. I mean, people who doesn't love
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  to see themselves as well as like a token of, you know,
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  appreciation and gratitude for, for something special.
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  It's unique, it's custom, you know.
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  Well, you hit the nail on the head when you said it was a
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  conversation starter, right? So people either thought it was
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  creepy or they thought it was really cool.
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  What it is is it triggers conversation around it.
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  And we always say like we give a lot of gifts in our industry as
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  well too. And I love picking entertainment
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  pieces, right? So I like, you know, for us,
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  we're not doing bobbleheads of our clients, right?
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  When they buy a house. We're doing more entertainment
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  pieces. I like serveware, right, because
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  we think of it from the standpoint of it's a
• 13:57
  conversation starter. If you're having guests over and
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  you pull out this like gorgeous piece for like chip and dip or
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  charcuterie or whatever it might be, it's like it's going to get
• 14:05
  a conversation started. Like, oh, where to get that?
• 14:07
  And it's like, oh, my realtor gave that to me.
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  You guys picked something that was so creative that people
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  would take pictures of, they'd post online.
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  You got people to spread your brand and your name like
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  wildfire, especially locally because of course, that's how we
• 14:21
  know you is locally. But then you became really
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  recognized within your actual industry in front of other
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  industry leaders too, because of the fact that also most people
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  that are phenomenal at sales don't have that marketing.
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  And you guys also had that marketing piece.
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  You guys were so good at nailing down your demographic, who that
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  target audience was, and then creating ways to make that, you
• 14:43
  know you're giving them recognition and then also make
• 14:45
  it something that was a really creative and stood out.
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  And I think that that's what made your business such an
• 14:51
  incredible like model for all of us in the industry too, right?
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  Obviously different industries, but same wrong to say like, oh,
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  how can we kind of learn from you too, which is the whole
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  promise of our podcast is to learn from other business owners
• 15:07
  that do something a little different.
• 15:08
  So why don't we get into the EOS stuff too?
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  Because you weren't just a brilliant marketer, you also had
• 15:14
  some unbelievable operational processes too.
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  Do you want to talk a little bit about that and kind of what EOS
• 15:19
  meant to you guys and your growth?
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  It started from a place of pain, you know, where, where my former
• 15:25
  partner Zach and I were, this is probably 2015 or so.
• 15:28
  And we were, you know, we're growing the business top line
• 15:31
  was increasing, you know, we were hitting our, you know,
• 15:33
  achieving the goals that we had set forth in terms of production
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  and what not. But, you know, we were kind of
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  doing a lot, you know, we're doing, wearing a lot of hats and
• 15:42
  we were growing with, with employee count, but it was a
• 15:44
  little chaotic. There was a, there wasn't really
• 15:46
  like a, you woke up every morning and you weren't really
• 15:49
  quite sure what was going to hit you, but you knew you were going
• 15:51
  to hit. And that was kind of like a
• 15:53
  rinse and repeat daily thing. And I was, I was up till like
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  two or three in the morning sending out emails and, and Zach
• 15:59
  would wake up at 3:00 in the morning and he would be replying
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  and we'd be like, you know, we, there's got to be a better way.
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  Not sustainable, not sustainable.
• 16:05
  It was a great way to put it. And so we started asking other
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  people in other industries what they, what they did to solve
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  this problem and growth and, and being in control of the chaos.
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  And we were referred to a number of different consultants.
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  Eventually we landed on someone who is an implementer for EOS,
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  which is entrepreneurial operating system.
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  And it really spoke to us, I mean, the, the organizational
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  health, the EOS model is really the kind of the through line and
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  the spinal cord of the, of the, of the, of the operating system.
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  And for us, it, it allowed us to sort of manage the business and
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  in a way that gave us a kind of, you know, it's tried and true.
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  And it gave us a really like sequential kind of process for
• 16:43
  it from, from, from org charts to core values to weekly
• 16:47
  meetings to process design and, and, and, and accountability and
• 16:52
  KPIs and, and, you know, leadership, you know, all the
• 16:55
  things that you need to grow a business from infancy to the
• 16:58
  next level help you breakthrough those ceilings.
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  EOS was that for us. So when it comes down to
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  creating a value for a business, right, like we know how to run a
• 17:06
  business, we know how to scale a business at this point.
• 17:08
  We've, we've proven that to ourselves, but now how you run
• 17:12
  legacy advisors, right? You're a partner with legacy
• 17:14
  advisors and you're helping other businesses figure out what
• 17:17
  the value is and then be able to actually sell their business.
• 17:21
  How do you like, obviously marketing matters, sales matters
• 17:26
  and those operational processes, but when it comes down to it,
• 17:29
  how do you really truly figure out the value of a business?
• 17:33
  Good question. It's not like a easy simple.
• 17:35
  One cent, you have one cent. 7 words. 7 words or less.
• 17:40
  First off, I would say that any business that is running on any
• 17:42
  operating system that has a way that they run the business that
• 17:46
  they, the leadership can stand up above the business and plan
• 17:49
  and set goals and figure out what's what's coming.
• 17:52
  What are we going to do this quarter?
• 17:53
  What's, what are you going to achieve next quarter?
• 17:54
  How does that lead into our annual?
• 17:56
  How does that lead into our three-year?
• 17:57
  How does that lead in towards our 10 year vision, right.
• 17:59
  Anyone, anyone that can run that way is going to breakthrough
• 18:02
  ceilings are going to become more efficient, more profitable,
• 18:05
  going to grow faster with less dependency on the principal and
• 18:09
  the owners. And that is a is a more valuable
• 18:11
  business to anyone in any industry.
• 18:14
  I would say that when we are looking at, we only help
• 18:17
  insurance agencies sell their business.
• 18:19
  That's our specific niche. Talk about niches.
• 18:22
  And when we're initially having conversations, yes, most people
• 18:26
  want to start with what is my business worth?
• 18:28
  Like, you know, I've been building this for 2030 years or
• 18:31
  4 generations. This is a huge decision.
• 18:34
  I want to make sure I get it right.
• 18:35
  I don't want to feel pressured. I want, I want to just get
• 18:38
  information. I want to be educated first.
• 18:41
  Tell me about, you know, what would the, what would that
• 18:43
  entail? And so it starts with
• 18:44
  conversations and education first on how businesses are
• 18:47
  valued. And then we gather all their
• 18:50
  financials, We build a financial model, we figure out what
• 18:53
  adjustments would come out of that model if, if they were
• 18:56
  going to be, you know, part of a larger organization down the
• 18:58
  road. And then we present that
• 19:00
  valuation to them, you know, what it would look like upfront
• 19:03
  and guaranteed cash and equity, what, you know, deal structure
• 19:06
  components could look like in terms of, you know, earn outs
• 19:09
  and potential equity appreciation, what salary and
• 19:12
  commissions could look like. Give them the full sort of
• 19:14
  scope. And then it's, you know, that's,
• 19:17
  that's, that's all education for them, just knowledge and
• 19:19
  awareness, empowering them because I feel like everyone
• 19:22
  needs to feel like they're in control and they're making one
• 19:24
  of life's biggest decisions. And then if at that time it made
• 19:28
  sense, could work formally together, they would hire us and
• 19:31
  we would take them to market. It's incredible.
• 19:33
  That is incredible. How much to so when you sell
• 19:36
  though, this is the interesting piece we had someone on who also
• 19:39
  talked about acquisitions and one of the interesting things
• 19:41
  that we talked about is how many businesses, large companies
• 19:44
  acquire this incredible company that was running really well,
• 19:48
  had these amazing systems, right, and was operating at a
• 19:50
  high level. Then they make them immediately
• 19:53
  switch to their operating systems, right?
• 19:56
  How often does a company actually come in, buy it, and
• 19:59
  use what they already had built, versus have them come in and
• 20:03
  actually edit their systems to be what a bigger company was
• 20:07
  using? That's a great question.
• 20:08
  Most of the times larger, more established companies that are
• 20:12
  acquiring and highly acquisitive, they're going to
• 20:15
  eventually migrate and integrate whatever they're buying into
• 20:18
  their own tech stack and their own platforms, right?
• 20:20
  They have to. You kind of have to, yeah.
• 20:21
  I would say that if there are groups that are looking for
• 20:25
  minority investment or they are looking to get in early on with
• 20:28
  a platform and build around that platform, those are the
• 20:32
  opportunities for the sellers to really maintain a lot of
• 20:34
  autonomy around what they do, how they do it.
• 20:37
  That's not as common, right? And if you're, if you're in a,
• 20:39
  in a industry like insurance or whatever, it's highly
• 20:42
  acquisitive. There's a lot of private equity
• 20:44
  money in it. You're going to typically have,
• 20:46
  you know, call it 15 to 50 of really, really strong, large
• 20:51
  aggregated businesses that are acquiring agencies and
• 20:54
  eventually going to migrate. Now, when we're, when we're
• 20:56
  working with, with clients, one of the biggest things for them
• 21:00
  is what's day 2 going to look like?
• 21:01
  It was for me and it, and it should be that's most groups
• 21:05
  aren't looking to buy the business and fire the main owner
• 21:08
  of principal. And that main owner of principal
• 21:10
  may want to continue on for three, 510 years.
• 21:13
  So what, what does it look like when I wake up in day 2?
• 21:15
  It matters. So a lot of time that we spend
• 21:18
  is here are the different groups that are out there.
• 21:20
  This is what Day 2 would look like with this group, this group
• 21:22
  and this group, which ones do we even want to, which ones do we
• 21:25
  avoid even talking to because you're not going to be happy in
• 21:28
  day 2. I think that's one of the
• 21:29
  differentiations that we know differentiators that we sort of
• 21:32
  lean into because of our background and experience of
• 21:35
  having multiple partners who sold.
• 21:37
  And how long I know your, your business, you know, similar to
• 21:40
  us, like you're only getting paid if the deal closes.
• 21:43
  So you're advising and you're consulting them and then when it
• 21:46
  closes, whatever that structure looks like, that's what it is.
• 21:49
  How long is that sales process? So when you meet that insurance
• 21:53
  agent agency owner and they say, hey, I'm looking to potentially
• 21:56
  sell and you take them through that process, how long is that
• 21:59
  sales process? Typically months, years.
• 22:01
  If someone has high intent and they are organized or finances
• 22:04
  are organized, probably takes about between 5:00 and six
• 22:07
  months. A lot of times we'll do
• 22:09
  evaluation for someone and either we won't be at their
• 22:13
  number like they, they won't be valued at what they need to be
• 22:15
  valued at to sell the business. Or we realize their margins
• 22:19
  compressed and we need to make a lot of operational changes or
• 22:21
  they need to make operational changes in order to grow into
• 22:24
  the to expense lows that they might already have in order to
• 22:26
  achieve maximum value. And we recommend do these three
• 22:30
  things come back to us in a year, we'll re evaluate and
• 22:32
  update the model and see if you're ready.
• 22:34
  So sometimes it can take 12 months, 24 months.
• 22:37
  We had a client we valued in 2023 that just sold with us now
• 22:42
  three years later. You know, so it really depends.
• 22:44
  And, and I would say if you have high intent, you're organized,
• 22:47
  your margins are there, then you know, five to six months, but
• 22:51
  it's very, very similar to to real estate.
• 22:53
  I was just going to say that's exactly like listing a house,
• 22:55
  right? Like so it's, it's very similar.
• 22:58
  It's one of those things where it's like if you want to get
• 23:00
  maximum value and it depends on every seller's pain point.
• 23:03
  And I'm sure it's the same for you too.
• 23:04
  When you're talking to a business owner, it's ultimately
• 23:06
  what do you need? Do you need to sell your home
• 23:09
  right away and you're willing to not do the updates that you need
• 23:13
  to do to get maximum value, right?
• 23:14
  Like it's like we can do that. We can go to market like that.
• 23:17
  Or do we take the time to make sure that the house is exactly
• 23:20
  kind of turnkey and we put a little extra money in upfront,
• 23:24
  right, get it to that place of it looking perfect.
• 23:26
  And then from there you're able to actually get the maximum
• 23:29
  value. And I think it just it all
• 23:30
  depends on like you said to the the owner's preference, what
• 23:33
  they need. Yeah, goals, timelines and
• 23:35
  everything, but there's so many similarities, I mean, between,
• 23:39
  you know, if you're selling a luxury home, for example,
• 23:41
  someone wants to get maximum value out of it, right?
• 23:44
  You start with a market analysis, right?
• 23:46
  I mean, maybe maybe there's those repeat clients that come
• 23:49
  back to you and say, Hey, Ryan and team, I love what you guys
• 23:51
  did for me. That's the three last homes that
• 23:53
  you've helped me buy and sell. Can you do this one?
• 23:55
  But most of the time you'll start with evaluation or a
• 23:57
  market analysis of the property value, same thing we do.
• 24:00
  And then once they say, hey, we love you guys, we're confident
• 24:03
  in you, let's go forward. You know, you're going to build
• 24:05
  their marketing materials. You're going to, right?
• 24:07
  You're going to take that that house to market.
• 24:09
  The same thing we do. We build a full deck and all the
• 24:11
  narrative and the things that make them unique and special
• 24:14
  outside of the financials. And then you curate a buyer list
• 24:17
  like we do, or you bring buyers to the table.
• 24:20
  You create that competitive environment in a short time
• 24:22
  frame, and then you help them negotiate based on what you
• 24:25
  know, who, who's coming to the table and the strength of the
• 24:27
  offers. Same thing.
• 24:29
  We'll get the offers. We'll help them figure out the
• 24:31
  merits of every one of them and dissect them and then identify
• 24:34
  which one makes the most sense. The only difference is that, and
• 24:38
  then there's a diligence process, right?
• 24:39
  There's a diligent, after they say, yes, I want to move
• 24:41
  forward, they sign the APA or they sign, you know, the
• 24:44
  purchase agreement or whatever it is.
• 24:46
  Then there's a diligence process, a legal process, What
• 24:48
  not. The only difference is when
• 24:49
  someone sells their business, typically they're still going to
• 24:53
  stay in that business, right? And when you sell your house,
• 24:57
  you generally don't live with a new owner, right?
• 24:59
  You move on and you buy a new house.
• 25:01
  And I think that's the only major difference really in the
• 25:04
  in the sales journey. So back back when you sold GNN,
• 25:08
  right? And now you're representing
• 25:10
  people who sell, how much of that, you know, doing your own
• 25:14
  sale of your own company with your your partner, Zach at the
• 25:16
  time, how much of that experience LED you into, you
• 25:21
  know, starting this company? It was the impetus, it was the
• 25:24
  driver for what we do and why this company exists.
• 25:26
  It was, you know, for me. And did you know when you were
• 25:31
  selling OK, this is? What I want to do next?
• 25:32
  No clue. No, no, I learned a lot through
• 25:35
  the sales experience, right. It was a lot of a lot of very
• 25:39
  emotional process psychologically it was demanding
• 25:43
  and challenging. Physically, just the amount of
• 25:45
  Labor lift associated with that time of, you know, trying to go
• 25:49
  through diligence and the whole process and financially it's a
• 25:51
  major decision. It's a big, big decision.
• 25:53
  So it was a very weighty and we got a great outcome from a
• 25:57
  financial perspective. And I still love the investment
• 26:00
  bankers that we had hired to help us because they they helped
• 26:03
  us accomplish our goals. The process, though, if they had
• 26:07
  been in my seat originally would have looked different from the
• 26:11
  communication strategy, from the attention to detail, the follow
• 26:14
  through, the questions that we would have been advised to ask
• 26:18
  potential, you know, potential buyers, just the group of buyers
• 26:22
  we would have brought to the table at the beginning would
• 26:24
  have looked a lot different, right.
• 26:25
  And So what drives a lot of our process now is my experience
• 26:30
  going through the sell, you know, the sales journey and, and
• 26:33
  what I would have what we, I love that we did and we did
• 26:36
  right and all the things I wish we had done differently, you
• 26:38
  know, and, you know, even if it comes comes down to little
• 26:40
  things like prepping our sellers with what questions to ask in
• 26:44
  the management meetings and what questions they're going to be
• 26:46
  asked. And you know, which groups we
• 26:48
  should avoid even going to because they wouldn't be happy.
• 26:50
  And even if they they got a great offer, we don't want them
• 26:52
  to be tantalized by that, right? And so I think it, it speaks to
• 26:56
  a lot of yeah, it's also resonating with the market.
• 27:02
  You know, I think insurance agency owners, for the most
• 27:05
  part, they built these businesses on their back or
• 27:09
  their second, third generations. There's a lot of emotional,
• 27:11
  like, connection to it. It's important for them to know
• 27:14
  that they're making all the right decisions when it matters
• 27:16
  most. And so we take that
• 27:19
  responsibility to heart and we make sure that at the end they
• 27:24
  can look back with no regret. They can look back and say we
• 27:27
  crossed all the TS dot, all the IS.
• 27:28
  We looked at every potential option.
• 27:30
  We chose the right fit for the right reasons, and we feel good
• 27:33
  about it. Maybe not perfect cuz you're
• 27:35
  selling your business like don't make all the decisions you used
• 27:39
  to make, but it's the best possible option and outcome that
• 27:42
  they could have had. No deal is perfect, but I love
• 27:44
  what you're saying because what inspired you basically to start
• 27:47
  Legacy Advisors is that it sounds like there was a gap in
• 27:50
  the education in that process, right?
• 27:53
  Which I love hearing that because that's what we do as
• 27:56
  agents too, right? So there are people that maybe
• 27:59
  they've bought and sold a home, but it hasn't been for 10 years,
• 28:02
  20 years, or 30 years, right? They're a little rusty.
• 28:04
  The market's different. And for us, the biggest
• 28:08
  differentiator is we have to educate them through the
• 28:10
  process. What's the market like today?
• 28:12
  What are your options like? Laying the options out on the
• 28:15
  table and then really, truly like holding their hand and
• 28:18
  educating them through what each option entails and what it means
• 28:21
  for them, what it looks like in their world world, and then what
• 28:25
  the outcome could look like. And it sounds like you had a
• 28:28
  great experience with selling your business, but you knew that
• 28:30
  it was missing a layer. And you being such an
• 28:32
  entrepreneur, you are like, OK, let's make this into a business,
• 28:35
  right? Well, 85% of our team come from
• 28:39
  the finance, banking backgrounds, accounting,
• 28:41
  auditing, Cpas, right? But you know, layering in some
• 28:45
  actual real ownership experience and of starting growing, selling
• 28:49
  all the fears associated with that I think really is a huge
• 28:52
  differentiator. But I think what you guys do so
• 28:55
  well and what we try to do with the education piece is it is it
• 28:59
  requires patience and a lot of people in selling anything,
• 29:03
  right? They're trying to rush to the
• 29:04
  transaction because that's when everyone gets paid and education
• 29:08
  and empowerment requires patience, but it's also, it also
• 29:11
  exudes this kind of strength and clients feel that they wanna be
• 29:15
  with people who aren't rushing them.
• 29:17
  They wanna be with people who are empowering and educating
• 29:19
  them. And you guys do a phenomenal job
• 29:21
  at that. It's why you continue to grow so
• 29:23
  well. I would argue the transaction
• 29:25
  itself is 1000 times better when you actually took that time.
• 29:30
  So while it comes across like patients in the beginning, I
• 29:33
  think what it does is it avoids so many questions and concerns
• 29:37
  and emotions later, right? You mentioned how emotional it
• 29:40
  was to sell your business, how emotional it is for every
• 29:42
  insurance agency out there that's selling their business.
• 29:44
  It's the same thing for homes, right?
• 29:46
  It's super emotional. It's where they're either going
• 29:48
  to be making memories and building, you know, their lives
• 29:52
  or if they're selling this home that they made memories in and
• 29:55
  had a life in. And I think that that's the
• 29:58
  biggest piece is the minute that you can over explain and really
• 30:02
  highly educate to people, the less surprises and the less
• 30:06
  emotional it becomes. And I think it's, it's a way a
• 30:09
  lot of people say like we do a good job of helping to make it
• 30:11
  less stressful. And it's like, because they were
• 30:13
  highly prepared, right? They were highly prepared for
• 30:16
  what was going to happen and they were walked through the
• 30:18
  whole entire thing. And it sounds like that was the
• 30:20
  biggest piece that that that your industry really needs,
• 30:24
  right? Because like you said, you're
• 30:25
  selling to people that are legacy insurance agencies,
• 30:28
  right? That's a lot of pressure.
• 30:30
  It's a lot of pressure to be like my grandfather or my great
• 30:33
  grandfather who started this business.
• 30:34
  I'm going to sell it now, right? Leave behind this legacy of my
• 30:39
  family's last name and all that stuff.
• 30:41
  And you just need someone who's going to be patient and walk you
• 30:44
  through it. But I do think as much as we
• 30:47
  look like heroes at front, up front, being like we're patient
• 30:50
  in the beginning, the reality is it makes the entire transaction
• 30:53
  so much easier. Like, why wouldn't you do that?
• 30:56
  Why wouldn't you get ahead and make people feel that much more
• 30:59
  confident and comfortable with what's going to happen next?
• 31:02
  Yeah, well, it takes a lot of mess ups to to figure it out,
• 31:06
  you know, and like identify what process can be consistently
• 31:10
  repeated and followed that generates the best outcomes.
• 31:13
  And that takes time. There's a lot of kind of, you
• 31:16
  know, stubbing your toe, but yeah, getting people, getting
• 31:20
  people completely comfortable and empowered and educated,
• 31:23
  knowledgeable of what's to come. So setting that expectation and
• 31:27
  then following through with a communication strategy sounds
• 31:30
  simple, but like, you know, it can be challenge, especially
• 31:32
  when you're juggling a lot of clients at the same time.
• 31:35
  What is one thing so for each seller slash owner, what is one
• 31:39
  thing that they mostly misunderstand or that is most
• 31:45
  misunderstood about the selling process?
• 31:46
  That's a great question. I would say that a lot of buyers
• 31:51
  whether it's insurance or out of the industry, a lot of buyers
• 31:54
  want to go direct to the seller because they can put a
• 31:58
  compelling multiple of EBITDA revenue, whatever the whatever
• 32:01
  that you know, industry, you know values the business on can
• 32:04
  put a compelling multiple without really diving into the
• 32:08
  margin. And so for insurance agencies,
• 32:12
  almost all of them are going to be trading on a multiple of
• 32:14
  EBITDA or a multiple of profit. And so one thing that we really
• 32:19
  spend a lot of time on upfront is what are all the adjustments
• 32:22
  that we can pull out of this business that aren't going to be
• 32:25
  part of the go forward pro forma to expand that pro forma margin
• 32:29
  because that ultimately is going to be applied on fact or a
• 32:32
  multiple to. And I think a lot of sellers
• 32:34
  don't realize that they might be operating a 20% margin, but they
• 32:38
  should sell their business at a 40% margin and that that makes
• 32:41
  them so much more than getting 10 times EBITDA versus 9 times.
• 32:45
  And I think that understanding that is a big aha for a lot of
• 32:48
  people. Alternatively, the the, the,
• 32:51
  the, the process of meeting buyers and actually identifying
• 32:56
  which ones would be the right fit for them.
• 32:58
  It requires a lot of time and effort.
• 32:59
  And I think people sometimes they just want to go to the more
• 33:02
  familiar route of like who, who do I know who's in my local
• 33:06
  area? That doesn't generate the best
• 33:07
  financial outcome. It certainly doesn't generate
• 33:09
  the best day to culture fit. So speaking about culture, how
• 33:12
  do you factor in culture when you're talking about whether
• 33:15
  you're talking about revenue or EBITDA or whatever and you play
• 33:18
  into that, How do you factor and put the, you know, the find the
• 33:21
  right two people to meet to then have a successful transaction?
• 33:25
  Because culture, personality, all of that makes a big
• 33:27
  difference. But how do you factor that into
• 33:29
  the numbers, which I'm assuming the investment bankers that
• 33:31
  you're working with on the other side, I have to assume they're
• 33:34
  more data-driven, whereas with your experience, you factor in
• 33:38
  culture probably a little bit more?
• 33:39
  How's that? It's a great question.
• 33:40
  Yeah. So the other benefit of being
• 33:43
  Nichy and only being an insurance is we we we have a
• 33:46
  really good understanding of the 7065 to 70 highly acquisitive P
• 33:50
  back publicly traded and and large, you know, independently
• 33:53
  owned agencies that are that are buying routinely.
• 33:56
  They're driving the market, understanding what they look
• 33:59
  like, who they are, the geography they're looking for,
• 34:02
  the type of business mix that they want, the type of
• 34:05
  leadership go forward plan, the integration strategy.
• 34:07
  They have the different tech stack they offer, like all the
• 34:10
  things that that each one of these groups offer that drives
• 34:14
  what life is going to look like after you transact, right.
• 34:17
  So one group that's publicly traded, that's super large, they
• 34:20
  might take a business and say, all right, well, we have all
• 34:22
  these roles. We don't need you, you and you,
• 34:24
  right? We have all the things already
• 34:26
  determined, like you guys are going to change everything you
• 34:29
  do to what we do. And this is the way we're going
• 34:31
  to do it. And that might be OK for certain
• 34:33
  sellers, most sellers, they don't want that, right?
• 34:35
  And so they might want a group that's maybe an earlier inning
• 34:38
  in terms of their journey and growth.
• 34:40
  They, they value what you do, you know, as a seller, yes,
• 34:44
  they're going to acquire the business, but maybe they'll,
• 34:46
  they'll keep, allow you to keep your brand, allow you to keep
• 34:49
  your process. Absolutely don't let anybody go
• 34:52
  because we, we were desperate for really good talent and the
• 34:55
  things that you do from a marketing perspective and sales
• 34:57
  perspective, we want to learn from that, right?
• 34:59
  So that's a different culture, right?
• 35:00
  What, what, what's it going to look like to work with that
• 35:02
  group versus this group? And who am I going to be working
• 35:05
  with on a daily basis, right? What systems do I need to
• 35:08
  integrate day one? What systems can we wait until
• 35:10
  365 days later? So all those questions that
• 35:13
  uncover those answers are what we arm our clients with when
• 35:16
  they're going through management meetings and they're meeting
• 35:18
  buyers for the first time, right?
• 35:20
  They'll ask thinking those questions are important.
• 35:22
  Someone might say, oh, yeah, we, we, we have, we have that role
• 35:25
  already tied up. You won't need them moving
• 35:26
  forward. That could be a quick no, like
• 35:28
  absolutely no. We don't want to work with that
• 35:30
  group, right? Yeah, that's good.
• 35:31
  So it's a hard launch versus a soft launch, right, Like as the
• 35:34
  Gen. Z population would say.
• 35:37
  You know what though? So you mentioned something,
• 35:39
  you've mentioned it twice now and this was something I wanted
• 35:41
  to dig a little bit deeper on in terms of how you prep your
• 35:45
  clients to be able to have that larger profit margin to then be
• 35:48
  able to value their business at a more, you know, realistic rate
• 35:52
  for them, but also higher rate, right?
• 35:54
  There must be so many companies that have some operational
• 35:58
  expenses that are kind of unnecessary, right?
• 36:01
  Because like we look at our PNL all the time and we, we sit
• 36:03
  there and we say what's unnecessary, what really isn't,
• 36:07
  you know, driving towards our bottom goal, like our bottom
• 36:10
  line. And our bottom line is always to
• 36:12
  provide our clients, past clients, current clients with
• 36:15
  the most top level customer service, right?
• 36:18
  So for us, that's where we spend all of our money.
• 36:20
  Are there areas where we could be cutting?
• 36:21
  And is that something you guys do before you go to market?
• 36:25
  Do you actually like fine tooth comb go through all of their
• 36:28
  expenses and say, let's cut these for a period of time.
• 36:31
  So then it shows up a little bit bigger in terms of your profit
• 36:34
  margin? So it's a great exercise going
• 36:38
  through evaluations, a great exercise to go through even if
• 36:40
  you're 10 years out from selling or never sell, because what it
• 36:42
  does is it, it forces you to have an audit, it forces you to
• 36:46
  have a forensic view, you know, analysis of what you're spending
• 36:49
  money on and why. And so yes, as part of the
• 36:51
  valuation, we gather all their financials, including their
• 36:54
  general Ledger, which gives transactional level detail.
• 36:56
  And we go through every single item, sometimes 56000 rows of
• 37:00
  expenses and identifying the one time expenses that wouldn't be
• 37:04
  going forward. A lot of a lot of business owner
• 37:07
  runs run personal expenses through their business, you
• 37:10
  know, based on IRS guidelines, but they're obviously not going
• 37:12
  to want to do that if they're going to get a multiple of the
• 37:14
  profit. So pulling that out, any
• 37:17
  marketing spend that they've spent that hasn't worked right,
• 37:20
  either one time projects or donations that they want to
• 37:23
  continue maybe personally, but shouldn't be running through the
• 37:25
  business. You know, there's a ton of
• 37:27
  discretionary stuff that that people are are running through
• 37:30
  their business and software licenses and monthly expenses
• 37:33
  that they signed up for three years ago.
• 37:34
  They completely. Forgot about.
• 37:36
  It's so common to go through one of those exercises and people
• 37:39
  are like, Oh my God, I forgot that I was paying for that ad.
• 37:41
  You know that whatever Google ads on a monthly basis.
• 37:44
  So yes, going through a transactional level detail
• 37:48
  allows us to empower them with what expenses would come out.
• 37:51
  Now they don't have to make any changes.
• 37:53
  These are all hypothetical like modelling.
• 37:55
  We model all that out. We show them like this is how
• 37:58
  much more valuable your business is because of this exercise.
• 38:02
  And if you did sell your business, you would want to pull
• 38:04
  all this out and no longer spend money here, here and here.
• 38:07
  That would be one of my favorite exercises.
• 38:08
  Yeah, you would love that. Yeah.
• 38:10
  What quick question for you, as people are evaluating, you know,
• 38:15
  all this stuff and going through the months of going through the
• 38:17
  peniles and ledgers and all that, doing their due diligence,
• 38:21
  what are people, what's like an interesting story you have of
• 38:23
  what has been found during the diligence period?
• 38:26
  You're like, OK, that's not a good fit or that's interesting.
• 38:28
  Let's dive deep into that. What are some things that people
• 38:30
  are finding? Yeah, No, I mean, in terms of
• 38:32
  like what we see in a general Ledger, there's, there's some
• 38:36
  really clean financials and, you know, a lot that's, that's fun
• 38:40
  because it's an easier lift and not as many, you know, skeletons
• 38:45
  per SE. But yeah, there's been, there's
• 38:47
  been people who have run, you know, race car fuel through
• 38:50
  their business and, and you know, diamonds, purchase
• 38:54
  diamonds apartments in Miami. I mean, there's all kinds of
• 38:57
  things. You'll see what we we say up
• 38:59
  front. We're not the IRS.
• 39:00
  We I don't judge anyone, but you absolutely should not be doing
• 39:04
  this. And, and if someone was going to
• 39:07
  buy your business, you should definitely, you know, be aware
• 39:09
  that this has to come out whether you want it or not, it
• 39:11
  has to come out. I don't know if that answers
• 39:14
  your. Question.
• 39:14
  No, it does. That's interesting.
• 39:15
  I always just think, I mean, especially if you've taken
• 39:17
  months evaluating and and looking into a business, what
• 39:20
  people will find. Every business is super unique,
• 39:22
  even in the same industry. Like not one agency.
• 39:25
  We've helped 49 agencies sell in the last three years and not one
• 39:30
  looked the same. I mean, they all look different
• 39:33
  from, from geography, book of business, makeup, financials,
• 39:37
  the legal corporate structure and all those different, you
• 39:40
  know, those nuances really do affect what diligence looks like
• 39:43
  and the legal process and you know, the financial diligence
• 39:45
  process. And it's, it's really, it's,
• 39:47
  that's what makes it fun and dynamic and interesting.
• 39:49
  It's like every brand new house, no house looks the same, right?
• 39:53
  No, especially when you're working in the luxury market,
• 39:55
  like no house looks the same. Every deal is going to look a
• 39:57
  little different. Every buyer and seller looks a
• 39:59
  little different. That's what makes a lot of fun.
• 40:00
  But it's it's fulfilling in the same way as real estate is.
• 40:03
  Because it's such a huge decision, there's a lot of
• 40:06
  emotions tied up into it. There's a lot of memories, not
• 40:08
  just yours, but sometimes you know, your extended families
• 40:11
  memories. And so it's a, it's a big
• 40:13
  responsibility. And that weight of
• 40:15
  responsibility creates a lot of fulfillment when every when
• 40:17
  everything is said and done. Yeah, I mean, there's also the
• 40:19
  whole aspect of their employees, right?
• 40:21
  The people that work for them. There's so many people's
• 40:25
  livelihoods at stake. So it sounds like such an
• 40:27
  incredible like piece of the puzzle that you're a part of
• 40:31
  getting to see them sell and and find a a new path for their
• 40:35
  their long term vision. But 3949 is a lot in three
• 40:40
  years, right? Yeah.
• 40:41
  Is there is this like, OK, so from put it in perspective for
• 40:45
  us, like real estate market, 2021 was a huge boom for for
• 40:50
  everyone in real estate. Is this a specific like huge
• 40:55
  boom in people selling insurance agencies and like large
• 40:58
  companies acquiring or is that kind of the standard in your
• 41:02
  industry? It's always been a good market.
• 41:04
  I'd say 10 or 15 years ago, private equity got involved
• 41:08
  because they saw the reoccurring revenue and insurance and they
• 41:11
  were like that's really attractive that 90% of your
• 41:13
  revenue from last year can pretty much be predicted this
• 41:15
  year, maybe some premium lift plus some new business and
• 41:18
  you're growing. So I think that private equity
• 41:21
  getting into the industry really drove the values significantly,
• 41:25
  which has created a huge market. There has been it has been very,
• 41:30
  very aggressive the last six or seven years.
• 41:33
  You know, interest rates going up a few years back definitely
• 41:36
  changed the dynamic and this multiple arbitrage that everyone
• 41:39
  was playing is kind of no longer an option.
• 41:42
  Cost of capital is is much higher now you know there's this
• 41:47
  this tailwind of per SE the last four or five years of increasing
• 41:51
  insurance across the country in premiums and that kind of
• 41:54
  created this artificial growth, organic growth that really
• 41:57
  wasn't there. And so now you're seeing a
• 41:59
  little bit of that depressed alongside higher interest rates
• 42:02
  and so long winded way of saying it's, it's an aggressive market.
• 42:05
  There's definitely a lot of buyers and sellers.
• 42:08
  But yeah, we've had been very fortunate to support a lot of a
• 42:11
  lot of groups in a short period of time.
• 42:13
  It's. Impressive.
• 42:14
  It's impressive. I mean, going from building GNN
• 42:18
  insurance, I mean, you've been, we've known each other for 15
• 42:20
  years, as we said, and you've been an entrepreneur that I've
• 42:22
  looked up to and many, many people in this area and
• 42:24
  nationally have have looked up to As one of the top
• 42:27
  entrepreneurs in the area. What would you say is one thing
• 42:30
  that you as an entrepreneur is like the most important thing
• 42:34
  or, and or the other side of the coin?
• 42:36
  What's the biggest mistakes that entrepreneurs make?
• 42:38
  For me, I think looking it's easier to say this now, right?
• 42:44
  But working on worthy challenges with really great people is, is
• 42:51
  super important to me moving forward.
• 42:53
  And I think that when you're younger and you're starting your
• 42:56
  first business or whatnot, sometimes you don't have that
• 42:58
  opportunity, that lens, that perspective to make decisions in
• 43:01
  line with that. But the more that you can kind
• 43:04
  of focus on is the challenge that we're trying to overcome
• 43:07
  Worthy of my time. Am I really gonna like want to
• 43:09
  wake up and like run through walls for this?
• 43:11
  And do I, am I surrounding myself with partners or team
• 43:14
  members that are like minded that I, that really look at this
• 43:17
  problem as a worthy challenge for them and you want to work
• 43:20
  together to accomplish it? I think those are the two things
• 43:22
  for me as entrepreneur that really like makes
• 43:26
  entrepreneurship so fun. It's like, is this challenge
• 43:28
  worthy and am I surrounding myself with some freaking
• 43:31
  amazing rock stars that I want to go to go to work with and go
• 43:33
  to battle with? You know, and I think that most
• 43:36
  entrepreneurs can answer those two questions with some
• 43:39
  certainty. You know, you're on the right
• 43:40
  track. That's brilliant, yeah.
• 43:42
  Work with, you know, people you love for a worthy, A worthy
• 43:46
  goal, which is awesome. So that it's, it's been, it's
• 43:49
  been incredible having you on. Good advice.
• 43:52
  That's great advice. Great.
• 43:53
  Advice. Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 43:54
  We've learned a lot from you. I can't wait to ask you more
• 43:57
  questions off this podcast because I could talk about this
• 44:00
  all day. I'm I think that this topic is
• 44:03
  so exciting, whether you plan to sell or not plan to sell, I
• 44:06
  think understanding the value of your business.
• 44:07
  If you're an entrepreneur and you're running something that's
• 44:10
  really incredible to your point, if you are putting in all of
• 44:13
  this time, energy, blood, sweat and tears, you need to know that
• 44:16
  your business is actually valuable, right?
• 44:18
  That you can run it and it's not going to just completely
• 44:21
  collapse. God forbid, you know, you took a
• 44:24
  vacation or something happened and you needed some time off,
• 44:27
  right? So I think that, like you said,
• 44:28
  it's a good exercise to go through for any entrepreneur.
• 44:30
  And if you are thinking about selling your business in
• 44:34
  insurance only reach out to Matt.
• 44:36
  But maybe someday you'll switch gears and and do more than just
• 44:39
  insurance companies. Right.
• 44:40
  Maybe, but probably. Not all right, Maybe we can
• 44:44
  convince. Thanks for thanks for having me.
• 44:45
  Yeah, man, it's. Been it's been great legacy
• 44:48
  advisors, we'll put in the comments how we can get in touch
• 44:51
  with you and how how people can find you.
• 44:53
  So it's been a pleasure man. Thanks so much.
• 44:55
  Thanks. For having me, you guys are the
• 44:56
  best. Thank you.