Latest / Motherhood Alliance Podcast / From Toes to Mouth: The Hidden Web of Fascia w/ Amanda Lapean | Chin Up Myofunctional Therapy
Transcript
- Britney Suttner: Hey, hey everybody, welcome back. are in episode number three with Amanda. Welcome back, Amanda. Amanda: Hello there, we're having fun today. Britney Suttner: We are having fun and I think we're heading into your favorite episode. If I am remembering this correctly, you are just like a fashion nerd. So in like such a good way and we're going to, so if you guys are just jumping into episode three here, cause this title caught your eye, I'm actually going to ask you to hit pause and head back to episodes one and two, because they're going to provide a really good foundation into what we're talking about here today. And episode one, we talked about mouth breathing and episode two, we talked about nose breathing. Andrea Renkas: Yeah. Britney Suttner: Hi, we are Britt Andrea from motherhoodalliance.com and we are excited to welcome you to a new four episode series with Amanda Lapine, a myofunctional therapist, massage therapist with advanced training in facial work, dental hygienist, wife and mom of two teen boys. She's also the founder of Chin Up, where she helps kids and adults get to the root cause of issues like poor sleep, snoring, crowded teeth, mouth breathing, jaw pain and chronic muscle tension. What's the difference? What should you be doing? What should you not be doing? You're going to have to go back to those episodes to find out. But today we're talking about fascia and how it's really like this hidden web inside of our entire body. So I guess my first question is, you're a myofunctional therapist. We're talking about the mouth and the nose and breathing in like the first two episodes. Why are we talking about fascia in this episode? What sets Amanda apart is that she even goes beyond the mouth, integrating massage and fascial work to create deeper, longer lasting results. Through her virtual and in-person practice, she's known for her fun, simplified and positive approach and her ability to connect the dots in a way that finally makes sense for families. And we are excited to introduce her to you now. Let's get started with today's episode. Amanda: Yeah, so I think the quick answer is let's be curious. Working with people's models, ⁓ I can't always get the results that I want. ⁓ sometimes you have to refer out to other providers, like we've talked about ENTs. But other times, ⁓ need to look below our chin, below our shoulders of why we're not getting the results. And that's where fascia plays in. Sometimes I can't get a tongue into a certain position or someone has such strong memory within their tissues. It's really that fascia that's restricting what I'm able to do as a myofunctional therapist. So I'm really blessed to be a massage therapist. they say it's a license to touch. I can do body work. And so it's something I can do in addition is when I get stuck in the mouth area, I can start to dress other parts of the body. And fascia has been one of those key pieces where I get amazing results. Britney Suttner: Can you define fascia and help people understand like what actually is it? What are we talking about here? Amanda: Absolutely. So fascia, some people more commonly will just call it connective tissue. It's kind of an easier way to think about it. But fascia really is it's 3d connective tissue. It it what gives us our shape. So fascia is if you think of like a spiderweb, it's it's very thin, it's per se lacy that way. But it actually surrounds every single cell in our body. Every single muscle fiber. It surrounds every nerve, every organ. It is everywhere in our body. It connects everything. Britney Suttner: So I don't know if people are gonna like this example or not, but if you're getting ready to prepare dinner and you have a chicken breast there and you have that white, kind of translucent but whitish film that you can peel off sometimes, is that fascia? Is that what we're kinda talking about? Is that what it looks like? Okay. Amanda: Absolutely. That's actually where my mind always goes when I think of fascia. That's exactly what fascia is. But correct, it can be not the most appetizing to think about that. But yeah, that's exactly what fascia is. And yeah, it's everywhere. Britney Suttner: Okay, so if it's connecting us all the way from our mouth to our toes, why did you have a why did you want to have an episode on this? Like, it's coming from our tongue specifically, I'm guessing that's what we're going to spend a lot of time talking about. How does our toes connect to our tongue? Amanda: Yeah, so we have a deep fascia train. And ⁓ our fascia, correct, ⁓ starts down in our feet on the bottom of our foot and our fascia runs all the way up the inside of our legs, through our pelvic floor, through our diaphragms, up through our neck, and the fascia actually ⁓ in our tongue. And so... ⁓ it's one of those things what came first the chicken or the egg. And so when you start to look at restrictions and movement patterns and areas that you get stuck, sometimes you can help on the tongue end of it and sometimes you have to help on the toe end of it. And so that's why I boldly look beyond just the mouth when when I'm working with movement patterns because being a myofunctional therapist I am working a lot with fascia just of that mouth, but fascia being like a spider web. You know, think of a fly getting stuck in a spider web. That perfect little pattern that that spider creates. Once that fly lands there, it starts to pull. It starts to tug somewhere. And that's what happens in our body. And sometimes that pull or that tug is not up in the face area where I'm working. Britney Suttner: Hmm. Is this... so now you have me thinking about tongue ties and lip ties. Are those ⁓ to ⁓ tightness or are those actually ⁓ muscle structures? ⁓ What that? What's causing those? Amanda: From what I've seen, it can be very fascia related. So as a myofunctal therapist, I would encourage anyone, strongly encourage anyone, before you even look at getting your tongue released, if it's something that's been diagnosed by a doctor and recommended, you want to make sure you do at least five weeks of exercises first. One of those reasons ⁓ I can work with the fascia and the strengthening underneath the tongue. And when you go in for your release, ⁓ though you may not feel your tongue or you may be numb, ⁓ can see where that restriction sits ⁓ your fascia chain. I've had many doctors reach back out and say, is amazing working with a myofunctional therapist to have somebody properly prepared to come in because I can see exactly where that restriction is. rather than doing a little bit more guesswork. And afterwards you can continue. So it can be similar to like yoga for the mouth. You can get the tongue to move farther into a position you would not be. So some people realize once they start to work stretching their muscles and the connective tissue, your fascia, you can actually get into a position that you can function fine with and they're very happy with where they're at at that point. So working with people who chosen to go through, who have been diagnosed by doctor of being restricted with the tongue. one lady I remember came back she said I got into my car and for the first time ever I could move my head far enough to the side to actually see the blind spot driving home I've never been able to turn my head that far so that tells it was yeah yep we had done five weeks of myofunctional therapy and she went in for her tongue release Britney Suttner: This was after a tongue release. Okay. Amanda: So that tells you how far down that goes. had another lady who did not share with me until after the fact her incontinence went away. She's like this is something I've dealt with. I work with pelvic floor therapists because we have fascia, bridges, fascia chains and the pelvic floor is one of the other areas we have a lot of fascia just like your diaphragm, your tongue and she says her incontinence went away and that was not even a piece that was something we were working towards. I had to make them back and tell me that their shoe size changed. By working with the tongue, it released the whole fascia chain going down and their foot relaxed. You'll see a correlation with kiddos who walk on their tippy toes. Sometimes once the tongue gets addressed, they walk more flat-footed naturally. That's an example of how it's directly connected between your toes to your tongue. Britney Suttner: Wow. Okay, so we've talked a little bit about myofunctional therapy. And that's going to be where you're giving like mouth exercises. It's kind of like physical therapy, but for the mouth, right? Like myo is mouth, you're going to be giving them exercises and teaching them how to utilize their tongue and breathe properly and things like that. Is that an accurate definition? Short definition? Okay. Okay. But then there's also myofascial release. So again, mouth, now we're talking about fascia. Amanda: Yep, absolutely. Yep. Yep. Britney Suttner: Is this something that people can do at their homes or is this something they're coming to like see someone like you for? What's kind of the difference between these two? Because myofunctional therapy, myofascial release, like it all sounds like the same thing. Amanda: It does actually. Yeah, so myosinase means like surround, like muscles. So sometimes it's like the muscles and your connective tissue. So when, so correct, ⁓ therapy, ⁓ is working on movements patterns. It's neuroplasticity. That's the cool thing with our bodies. We are forever changing. We can rewire ourselves. And that's what I do as a myofunctional therapist. I work with movement patterns to teach our nerves new automatic ways that we subconsciously can just do what we want it to do, such as keep the lips together where they used to default to being open. So myofascial release, think of going in for a massage. Most of us have had a massage. You imagine someone putting oil on it, doing a lot of rubbing. Sometimes you find that deep tight spot that you kind of work into. So remove the oil and remove the rubbing. Now imagine that tight spot that you feel. Let's say by your shoulder blade on her back. A lot of people get very tight back there. Now imagine someone taking your shoulder blade and kind of pushing it up into that spike tight spot. You can even lift your shoulder. and kind of push it back. You can feel that tight area right now. So if I would take my hands and kind of gently put pressure right down in that tight area, this 3D connective tissue fascia starts to melt underneath my hands. After a minute or two, you can apply a little pressure and an outward pressure. You create a little bit of a natural stretch or working into those tension points. And it's a gentle way that you're suggesting to the body to just relax. to let go and it naturally just soothes itself. And that's how you release fascia, it's long, slow, gentle holds. One of the reasons I actually got really interested in fascia work is I had a running injury and I actually worked with different physical therapists. I had different body work done and no one could really figure out ⁓ why I was still having pain in my hip with running. ⁓ And I did some fascia work and that was actually the missing piece. It was deep in my abdominal. Something was really stuck in just doing some fascia holds. I went from walking with a limb, seriously, to the next day I went out and did my typical like three mile run. And I couldn't believe it. And that's where I... really started to lean in as a massage therapist. You know, I had done some advanced fascia work classes with John Barnes and I knew what it could do, but until I actually experienced that myself of seeing that instant change, that's where I'm like, okay, this is more impactful than what I ever realized. And that's why I people like just get curious and try different things because you don't always know what it's going to be until you choose that. Britney Suttner: So as you're talking about it, it's a little bit different than muscle, but it is similar to muscle where it can be released or stretched, right? Does it have muscle memory like muscle would where, let's say that you chronically have had issue in your shoulder, right? And then you release it. So like even your example with your hip, is that something that could kind of like creep back? And obviously if you have ongoing habits that are the cause, it's probably gonna creep back. But if you don't have ongoing habits and it's just like a release, it something that can creep back because of memory? Or is it something that would just be like released and done? Amanda: fascia definitely has memory. So if you think of someone who's a chronic mouth breather, so taking this back to myofunctional therapy, if you're a chronic mouth breather, your fascia literally molds itself to help support the jaw position you always hold your jaw in. And so if someone's a mouth breather and they're always holding their mouth open, your fascia will actually create like a casting. or a memory so your body doesn't have to work as hard to hold it in that spot. So if here's another great analogy if you think about a door in your house and you go past and you try to swing that door shut and you have to stop and actually put a little force on it to get that door to stop there's nothing wrong with the door the movement the hinges are what's rusty. And so if you come through and oil those hinges, the next time you come through, you can gently tap that door and it swings shut. And so fascia is kind of like that oil on the hinges. You're getting it to glide smoothly and you can do the movement patterns that you want. So if you think about it, myofunctional therapy is training the muscle. we're a fascia, we're softening that memory so it can support the new habit that we're creating. Britney Suttner: So what you're saying is basically ⁓ issues ⁓ actually be posture and tension issues that are stemming from somewhere else in the body. Amanda: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's why, you know, I boldly look beyond the mouth, whether it's something in my realm of it could be a flash of restriction, or sometimes that's for craniosacral therapy, finding a really good chiropractor, getting them to an irocentric dentist. ⁓ I refer out a lot to other specialties, and I greatly encourage people to work with more than one specialty beyond myself. because this is very multifaceted when you start to look at breathing issues. It is not a short one and done and one person is going to fix it all for you. That's a very unrealistic expectation. Britney Suttner: You know, we've talked so much about with breathing specifically the mouth and the nose, but you've also mentioned the diaphragm is involved in this fascia chain. Right. And so that's a huge part of our breathing. So what are you, what are you noticing or do you have any stories about, what can you tell us about the diaphragm and its role in not only this fascia piece, but also related to our inlets for breathing. Amanda: Hmm. Yeah, so when we mouth breathe, a lot of times we do a lot of shallow breathing. You'll see the top of your chest rise and fall. If you're nasal breathing, you'll see your actual rib cage or your abdominal. You will breathe a lot deeper when you're nasal breathing because when we nasal breathe, it slows down our breathing and it gives us time to have even a better oxygen exchange. So it's like anything, if you're not using it, you're losing it. So if we're not nasal breathing, we're not using our actual diaphragm muscle. Our diaphragm muscle sits underneath our rib cage and it gets really stiff when we don't use it. When our diaphragm gets stiff, you can get a lot of neck and jaw tension because it's so tight. It literally, when we talked about that fascia going down our system, that's the way a tight diaphragm will pull. And again, that's where you have to get curious and look, where is that tightness? So being a massage therapist and doing fascia work, working with people's diaphragms, it's interesting, even in between our rib bones, we have itty bitty muscles, our intercostals. Again, a podcast for a whole nother topic is doing cupping, know, three dimensional stretching. hands on fascia work is another way without cupping to be able to stretch those muscles. And you can see after you work on someone's rib cage, and the diaphragm area, they'll tell you it feels so light just to breathe. And it's not even changing the nasal or versus the mouth breathing, just breathing itself. is so much simpler when you soften those diaphragm muscles and can get that flexibility in something that's so automated. Andrea Renkas: I got cupping done at my chiropractor a long time ago for the first, like a long time ago, first time I did cupping with her and I had a lot of tightness in my left rib cage back area. And we did the cupping there and she like nailed the spot. so afterwards I couldn't, like, I could not do enough rolling. I could not do enough massage to get that spot like loosened up. And I could feel it, even breathing into it, trying to stretch my rib cage. I just couldn't do it. That cupping fit, like it was amazing. I'm like, it did it. It fixed this. So we ended up buying a cupping kit from Amazon and my husband and I do cupping on each other every once in a while too. But it really works. This is not like woo-hoo stuff that we're talking about with fascia. It's amazing. It really is. Amanda: and I'll do my due diligence. I do cupping at home even with my own family. It's one, ⁓ if you know an athlete, a biker, a marathon runner, they are one of the best ways actually to release a tight IT band. Cupping is the top thing that I would go to. So there's a side tip, but you do have to be careful if you start to cup yourself because the vacuum, the pressure creates going up. It changes your, your lymph, your circulation that you want to make sure you're draining. when you start to cup. So make sure you do your homework before you start to cup on yourself. Just as I want to make sure if you're doing it, you get really good health benefits out of it. Britney Suttner: To finish out this episode, do you have anything that we could do like even being on here that would of give us this experience of feeling a difference in fascia? Like even if it's just sitting here or standing up or something like that, that's simple. Amanda: Yeah, absolutely. So something fun that we can do, depending on where everyone is, who's listening. I have a lacrosse ball. My one son plays lacrosse, so we have them all over the house. But you can use a tennis ball, you can use a soup can, ⁓ you can get underneath your foot to roll around. Go ⁓ it. But what you want to do first is if you stand up and bend over and just reach for the floor. ⁓ You can just dangle your arms if you're able to touch your toes. Some people can get flat handed. Just see where your natural stretch is. And then you want to take that round object and you can stand, you can sit, but roll that object underneath. ⁓ Do your right foot first, doesn't matter. But choose the foot for about 30 seconds, roll it underneath your foot and then switch and do your other foot. If you have two of whatever, you can be very efficient and roll both at the same time. There's no magic to this, but a good 30 seconds, roll it underneath and then stand back up and do the same stretch. You will be amazed at how you're able to stretch further and it feels so much more easy. That's a classic example of how you're affecting that entire fascia chain going down the front of you. That's how you can affect your own fascia. So if you ever watch when you get body work done or massages, a lot of times they'll take your ankles and kind of pull both legs. They kind of traction it. That's affecting your whole fascia. Or sometimes they'll take your head ⁓ and your occipital ridge, that little notch in your neck, and they'll kind of traction and pull your head up. That's a fascia release that you can hold. And when you do it on one end or the other, you're in your body is getting benefit from it. And that's why I love fascia so much. You don't necessarily always have to be where you are to affect the fascia throughout your whole body. Britney Suttner: I'm excited to try this because I think a lot of people listening are going to be like, I have tight hamstrings. So when I stand up and I bend over to touch my toes, like that is a very tight area where a lot of people can't keep their legs mostly straight. And so I think that's going to be a really fun experiment to try. So thanks for that. That's really cool. Well, we do have one more episode coming up with Amanda, but before we head to that one, Amanda, where are you at on social media? Where can people follow you? Amanda: Yep, you can find me on Facebook, you can do Instagram, but I would say the best spot is really my website, www.chinupsmiles.com. You can find all sorts of information about myofunctual therapy, about me, my journey, and yeah, go find out my website. And there's also a way that you can click, you can connect with me that way. and we can always jump on a free 15 minute virtual consult where we can talk about all great things and I can answer your questions. Britney Suttner: Well, I'm pretty excited for this last episode too because I feel like this is a big topic for families, especially ones with younger kids, is can braces actually be avoided if they are following, you know, talking to someone like you, seeing maybe an airway dentist, and being proactive about the structure of our mouths and the way that we breathe. Is breathing related? Are breathing and braces correlated? Right? And so that's kind of where we're gonna head in the next episode. So stay tuned for that one. It's coming up next.