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Building a Brand After Rock Bottom: Andrew Parrott on Recovery, Business, and Authentic Marketing · We Built This Brand

• Andrew: Now it's like when people invest in, in logic and brainchild and, and as we're moving, you're not investing in someone that's trying to figure it out. You're investing in 20 years of experience. Chris: Welcome to We Built this brand where we pull back the curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes challenging process of building something that matters. Today I'm joined by Andrew Parrott, the founder of Logic Marketing, a full service marketing agency that blends imagination with insight strategy, with soul and design with data. It's not just about the websites they build either. They do some impressive work in fabrication and physical experiential marketing. On top of that. Andrew has quite the story, having dealt with addiction and recovery at his younger years to becoming the successful founder of Logic Marketing. Well, we're gonna get into all of that today. It's a lot to cover. There's a lot to dig into. There's so much wisdom in this episode and I'm so excited for you to hear it. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Andrew Parrot of Logic Marketing. Andrew, thank you for joining me on, we built this brand today. Yeah, it's exciting to have you Andrew: Super fired up. This is gonna be legit. I have no idea what we're gonna do, but it's gonna be great. Chris: Well, sometimes these are the best episodes when we kind of go in and we just. You know, we're a little looser than normal, so love, it'll be a lot of fun. I love, Andrew: yeah. Love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for inviting me. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is super great. I'm fired up. Yeah, let's, let's dive in. Chris: Alright, well, typically where I like to start is wanna just get to know a little bit about your background and how you got to logic marketing and the things that you're doing today. You've done some really fascinating things and I'm, I'm just really excited to dive into everything. But I'd like to just kind of take it back a minute. We were talking about, you got, you were born in Seattle, but somehow you graduated from high school out here in East Tennessee. So. How did all that happen? Andrew: I mean, I think we've got a, like a podcast in and of itself, just with that portion of it, but at the end of the day, tried to keep it a little bit streamlined. Born in Tacoma, just south of Seattle. And you know, it was one of those things, it was a byproduct of an environment, you know, this is like back, you know, latchkey kids that are running around doing everything. And I was a broken kid. I mean, it was, yeah, I really had, I was depressed, hated myself more than anyone could hate me, didn't know which way was up and made some poor decisions in life. And it, and it was one of those, you know, scenarios where there was no real foundation in my life as far as like parental guidance and that. And so I took the path that I don't recommend. It was kind of brutal really by age 14. I was really involved in drugs and got, you know, that was it. It just kind of spiraled outta control from there. Again, trying to have some brevity on it. High school kicked out, high school kicked out, high school kicked out, you know, pushed away. Lot of, a lot of, you know, I lived in a, in a world that was really just encompassed by just a lot of violence and ugly and, and without making that sort of the foundation of what we're talking about it, you know, I, I ended up, after dropping outta high school my senior year, I was just running, I was running scared. My father essentially tried to save me. And he grew up in Newport, Tennessee, which is like super small. Like, I mean, if anyone knows anything about Newport, yeah, there's already judgments happening. But, uh, it's, uh, and he found a school called in Bristol, Tennessee. Tennessee High. So going from like dropout strung out and, and a dad who just wanted to have his kid like, God, how can I save him and uprooted everything. He was an orthodontist. He sold his practice, he sold everything and we ended up sitting in. In Bristol, Tennessee, where every day I would show up and he would like just try and, and I graduated. Yay. Um, it's, I mean, yeah, totally graduated high school. It only took me five years and, you know, after that he, he sort of cheerleaded that moment and it was off to the races, you know, for me and my addiction spiraled after that. 'cause he went back to Seattle E essentially. And I just, I, I wrecked. It was a homeless running the streets, you know, I had a heart attack at 21. It is just a, you know, listen, uh, I had found a solution to my problem. And my problem was just a, an inability to see life through any sort of prism that had anything to offer. And heroin, meth, all that, all that stuff, it, it allowed me to survive. And, and I tell people, I do a lot of speaking outside. I mean, I give back what was so freely given 'cause sort of given the punchline as I got clean. So I'm, I'm not strung out now, which is good, but it really was. I, I tell people that. If it wasn't for the dope, I don't know if I'd have made it through my teens. And we see that constantly and, and you'll find as we start talking about where I'm at now, that problem still exists so much throughout our communities. But, and again, feel free to have me back if we want to have that discussion. Oh yeah. But ultimately, I ended up in Tucson, Arizona in December, uh, 21st, 1999 was my first day clean. There's a great story there, but it would take up the entire time and I've been clean ever since. So it, you know, and that's what really started getting, I mean, that's what catapulted this idea. Listen, I had people in my corner my entire life. My father, my sister, you know, my mom was there and my sister is the one that really, she saved me through all this. She's a rock star. I mean, she's six years older. She was watching this car wreck happen throughout my entire upbringing, and ultimately she had to save herself. She's as incredible as it get. She's now the CEO of RFG financial. She's, I mean, blowing up all over the country. Most incredible person when it comes to that. And throughout my upbringing, there was always this narrative of. You're not gonna die. She really was like that true north that just made it, this is not part of your story. And she still is today. She is a, she's a mentor, she's a friend, and she's a part of this experience. So when I got clean, it was really like the doors flew open as far as what is it that I want to get involved with now, started off selling shoes and it turns out I was an incredible shoe salesman. Like I murdered it. Right? And I had so much pride in this idea that I could do something that was a legal career, even though it was just selling shoes, it meant something. And I watched how people interacted in just stores, and I watched how people interacted with these specials and I started, I mean, I never grew in the company, but I grew with self. That took me out to la. So now I'm sitting in LA and I'm doing this sort of run at, you know, want to be an actor, want to be famous. But really just want to find a direction. You know, I think we see that today too. The kids and the youth of today are so lost in this idea of what is out there for me. And that's exactly where I was at. What is out there for me, I'm just a, I'm an ex dope fiend trying to figure out which way is up, but people say, I'm charming. So what can I do with that? And during this time in LA this like, now we're sitting on like 2001 ish, this like internet stuff starts coming up and I met some really smart people that were, that were working in that space. And it was great because, you know, as you talk to 'em, it was like, what is it that is, you know, what is this internet stuff about? I didn't have a computer, I didn't know what was going on. And these guys that were selling these like internet ads and that, you know, they're like, well, we don't really know what we're selling, but it's a hustle. And I was like, bro, that. That's right up my lane. Like, okay, let's go. So then back to Tucson, Arizona, the real estate boom was happening. Found a niche with dealing with realtors as far as this internet, who likes to see their face more than everywhere. Beautiful. So I found this niche in that space and, and just kind of running in this digital marketing space, pitching it, working that angle, and it was great. Things were working amazing. Met the most incredible woman in the world, who is now my wife, Carrie. She was phenomenal. So we met, that's another incredible story, by the way. She's in recovery too. I mean, it, it was just, uh, it was awesome. So that's happening. And then there was this calling of this. This group called Scripts and Scripts happened to have just partnered with Yahoo, and we met each other. It was through like some sort of headhunter gig. They gave me a shout. We talked, I hopped on a plane, came out to Knoxville, Tennessee. And absolutely fell in love. Had a little 5-year-old and was just graduating college, so you gotta go back in time. I'm running 18 hours in school. I've got a little baby. I've got a woman who I love and I'm running a company like. The house was constantly on fire, but it was so much fun. It was great Chris: that, that's a really cool recovery story because, you know, just a personal comment about me, I've actually lost a friend to addiction, so I've, I have seen the other side of it. I know where it can go. And I think it's really cool that you had that kind of support that kind of helped to get you to where you're at today. So I just want, I just wanted to say that just really matters, I think, to have support around you during that time. So hearing that part of your story is just like, yeah, that people that don't give up on you so important. Andrew: It's like I'm sitting here about the, and, and that's what I want to have this conversation be about. 'cause I think about built this brand and, and the reality of it is all of those scars and all of that death and all of those times going into jail, coming outta jail, feeling like a loser, feeling like, God, this world is just too heavy. I just can't lift it. That is part of, that's my brand. I mean, it's, it's my brand. It's my company's brand. It's it's logic marketing. It's brainchild. It's what I stand for and ultimately all of my employees and everyone, and all of my clients. I mean, listen, I'm sitting here talking about it openly. My, my clients that span around this country, they get to hear this story and, and I'm very open with it for a few reasons. A for what you just brought up, I think we live in a space right now where you can't bring up addiction and not have people raise their hand and say, yeah, yeah. I've been affected. E either I'm struggling or I know a guy, or it's my family member, it's my wife, it's my kids. You know? I mean, it's all drive down the street. How many of these stores do you see constantly the c freedoms of the world and the this and the that? Listen, it's all about how can I escape this reality that just seems so heavy. So this built my brand. That's, that's my brand. You know, these other like logos that I smack on the side of me. The, the, the logic, the brainchild, the, this, the, yeah, yeah. Those are, those are sort of my sponsors, but I, that's part of my brand and that's the brand that everyone that I work with, it you, I guess. Has to deal with, gets to deal with, I mean, it, I'm, I'm not a, I'm not vanilla. Mm-hmm. So it's not for everybody. Right. Which is okay. Yeah. You know, if that's not what you wanna work with, that's okay. And I tell other agencies and people's trying to start up, you know, their company, it's like the greatest thing you can do is be authentic self and ex and show your scars. We live in an environment that if you can be authentic and show what you are, you're gonna find that audience, those people that you want to work with. It may not be the most profitable at the beginning, but watch out. 'cause it starts to have some groundswell if you can stay true to it. But I think in. Today's culture, there's such this knee jerk reaction to like, to want to be something you're not. And what a sad thing that is. You know, I've got three kids and I've got a grandkid, bro, I'm a grandfather. I mean, so good. It's like you, you know, it's, but, but do I watch these kids? And it's like they all have their brand and they don't fit all in the same peg. And my job as a father is, is about applauding and cheerleading. Like be authentic self, you know, get uncomfortable. That's okay. Uncomfortable is good, right? That's where you find growth. You know, the, the line I have in my office is I never learned anything from someone that told me I was right. I'm never gonna grow if you just cheerlead me on and say, I'm right. No, let's go challenge. Tell me what you think, because that's where we're gonna find some excellence. That's where we're gonna find growth. So anyway, I, I am so sorry that you had to deal with that, but I applaud you for being open about it. And with logic we do a ton of stuff. We've got companies, you know, reach Impact Institute. Right now we are working on how we can completely change the dynamics of how our country is dealing with the opioid situation. And then how do we deal with that at a political level? How do we deal with that at getting housing education? How do we work with faith communities? I mean, there's so much out there. So I like to give back what was so freely given. Chris: I mean, I, I think, I think what you said about it being. Part of your personal brand. I think that's really important for people to know. There's a lot of value in not just hiding behind, um, a facade of this major business that you're building and actually being an authentic part of it. Especially when you're building something yourself, like you're a part of that story. Every part of your life, every part of what you do is going to impact not just the business itself and how it grows, but also how it looks, how it feels, how it feels to other people, and that authenticity really matters. So I appreciate that you, you're so open about that and about your story. 'cause there are people out there that have dealt with that, that are still afraid. And Stig, it's so stigmatized in our culture to have been through addiction, to have to dealt with that. And I, I get it. I mean, it's nothing to be proud about. And in fact, the, the ones that I've seen that are proud about it end up being the ones that ultimately fall. And that's, that's what we don't want, but. That's really neat. So, moving on, talking about the, let's, let's Andrew: pivot from there. Chris: The, the pivots are always the hardest in a conversation like this, but with, with logic marketing, how did you get to there? So you, you're with Scripps, you're doing all this, you, you end up in Knoxville. How did you get to the point where you decided, you know what? I'm tired of working for somebody else. I'm gonna start my own business. Andrew: Listen, Scripps was incredible and, and they, you know, this was back like family run company, you know, massive. I mean, they had broadcasts, they had newspapers. They were, I mean, they were an incredible company. And everyone in that environment was so good to work with. You know, I was the guy that was showing up with a suit, but I'd also have like green hair and, you know, and the people there, it was like, what is this? You know? But it was, it was a great time. Just had a baby. So now I've got a. Five-year-old. I've got a just newborn and the environment was great, but as I was watching their way of managing, you know, digital media, I mean that was, golly, we're talking 19 years ago, almost 20 years ago, the digital space and I think marketing, but it was really hamstrung back in the day when it was like tv, yellow Pages, magazines, like everything was very static and took a lot of pre-preparation for something that was gonna go out and had some evergreen space that was out there. Right. Then you had like the radio, which was something that you had to be kind of on the fly with. All of these marketing things really were living in a space that you could sort of sit back, have ideas, think about it, couple months go by, then you initiate da da. Which is great. It was a fun environment. I can remember I used to love like designing yellow page ads. Mm-hmm. Yellow Pages was a big book. You would often get it at your house. It was free when you opened it up. It had businesses in it. Wild. Anyway. Um. But my focus was in this digital space that had a different sort of, it, it ran differently than what we call like legacy media. Mm-hmm. And it ran at a pace that was really in line with my energy, but it didn't run at a pace that this family sort of ran corporation that, that really systematically liked to take time and da, da da. And albeit, you know, successful, you know, people were happy it was doing a thing, but I felt like I could do it better. And I think maybe better isn't the word, but I could do it different. And, and ultimately it gave me an opportunity. I did. I was, I was successful at Scripps. It was, everything was really well financially, it was great, this and that. And then I got to sit with my wife. I mean, she is, listen, this, this guy needs a bridal. And that's my wife. She is the one that makes sure that I am going the right direction at all times. Without her, I am, uh, I am just, I don't know, mowing lawns and talking about fun stuff, but her advice sitting down and really being able to say, Hey, can I. Like, do you give me permission to risk our kids eating our, this, our that? I mean, gosh, these are scary times, right? Like, there's a knot in your stomach. Like, do I really believe in myself? And, and I don't think I did, but I believed in the fact that my wife believed in me. I believed in the fact that I had found some people. They believed in me, my sister believed in me, you know, my father. I mean, I had these people in my corner and I could hear them cheerleading, even though when I looked in the mirror, uh, I was like, ain't gonna do, ain't, this is not gonna work out. But, you know, the beauty of my past mm-hmm. Is that, and especially early recovery, like you go back to that time and life was great. You know, I, I had a little, you know. 700 square foot house. That was, you know, at one point I lived in my buddy's garage. Shout out to Jason Gorman. You know, he let me live in his garage that I, I built fake walls. It didn't have running water, didn't have a toilet. I had to walk outta the garage, open his house, walk into his house to use the bathroom. But you know what, I was happy, my wife was happy. The kids were happy. Like, I think the thing that made it workable is I knew that my worst case scenario, I was gonna be full of gratitude, full of love, and know that I gave it a shot and it was gonna be okay. Mm-hmm. I don't need that stuff. That stuff's cool and let's give it a shot. But I wasn't scared about failure. I was scared if I was gonna lose my cheerleaders. And, and you know what? Golly, they've been cheerleading me. For as long as I can remember. And I think that gave me the motivation to, to make the jump. And they still do. I mean, listen, I don't live on an island and I don't live in everything that we do right now. It's, my mountain is steep and, and I keep it that way intentionally because that's again, you know, just to be redundant, that's where growth happens. Yeah. And the reason I can keep it steep is that now I have a little bit more confidence in self. But I have a lot more confidence in those cheerleaders and, and as my, you know, staff grows and people grow and they see that they become cheerleaders and I'm cheerleading them. So I don't know where we were going with that, but it's, Chris: no, that's, that, that's a great start to, to logic and everything. Andrew: Right, Chris: right. Um, I can definitely identify with that. I started my business humble pod, like right after my son was born. My wife likes to joke that we had two kids at once because, you know, I started my business and my son was literally born like within the month or so that I got my first check for starting the company. So I've, I've been there. I know that fear, that the anxiety that is this really gonna work? Can I really do this and take this jump and make the leap? Um, so that's, that's always, that's always a scary place to be, um, when you're starting. But yeah, having that support, like my wife's confidence was just shocking, I think to me. I remember her being like, yeah, yeah, this is what you need to do. Just do it. And I was like. Okay. Uh, okay. Alright. Well, I'm, I'm more self-conscious about it and worried about it than she is and, you know, she's the one who I have to provide for and my son too. And, you know, all these things that were in my life at the time. So I, I can, I can definitely identify with that start to a business and yeah. And it, it takes a while to, to get off the ground and grow. I mean, when you're starting a business, there's always these moments of like, is this gonna be real? Is this that self-conscious doubt and fear of, is this actually going to work out? Is always something I think about when, um, I'm starting something new or making a new venture. And I, I don't know. For you, what was that moment of validation in your business where you were like, oh, this isn't just a, the pipe dream. I'm not doing all these crazy things and, you know, maybe putting my family in debt for no reason. Like there, there's value here to what we're doing. What, what was that moment for you? Andrew: Ah, you know, I don't know if it was a moment or if it was a, it was a continuation of hearing client. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, I cut my teeth, you know, in sales. Mm-hmm. For lack of a better term. And, and I had to learn how to sell myself, especially with the background that I had and a lot of those anchors that I kept a hold of for a long time that it was, I knew I could sell. And so those sales happened, you know, in the beginning and, and the validation started happening when. Each month as we're having these like reports and meetings with clientele and they were cheerleading us and saying things like, golly, you guys are so much better than the last group. Oh, you really, you're going out on a leg, you know, on a, on sort of this ledge to jump into a space that they were uncomfortable with. But, you know, I lean into people that are, I dunno, smarter than me. Listen, I'm, I'm a director for the most part. You know, I'm not the guy that's, that's holding the paintbrush. I'm the guy that's trying to see this vision and get all of these individuals in place that really tap into their superpower and find that like, true, like, what are you good at? Let's, let's lean into that. And as I saw them. Making success in verticals that we sort of defined and clients, uh, I mean, I guess the fact that they kept writing checks every month was blowing my mind. I mean, Chris: that's fantastic, Andrew: right? I mean, that's, that's was, it was fascinating to me. You know? 'cause like I said, I still at times look in the mirror and I see a, I see a 14-year-old kid that's just scared that just, God is this real, you know? And shoot, I'm almost 50 years old now and I still, I'm still that kid. And I think it gives the fire not only for myself, but for everyone that I surround myself with. And throughout these years and decades of watching these clients that I work with Cheerlead and get excited and say, man, you guys have just knocked this out of the park. Eh, you know, I, I guess I'm somewhat of a cocker spaniel. I get validation because you, you know, you, you're scratching behind my ear and I, you know, and I go, okay, I am good. Right? I mean, there's that desire that I'm very transparent about. And, and so that's where I think at the beginning, that first client. That said, thank you. That first client that just goes, wow, you did great. You know that first client that says it's great working with you? Like, that's what fed the fire. And it was a slow roll. I mean, and the beauty of it was, is when you're super small, how, how much is this gonna cost? Well, how much did the other guy charge? Right. Right. You know? Yeah. And, and they give you a number and you're like, uh, I don't know. Take less. And they're like, really? Yeah, sure. I don't, okay, let's give it a shot. And, and the fun thing was is I, I kind of approached it with that mentality at the beginning. It was, there was no set numbers. There was no, like, I didn't have a sales sheet, I didn't have a sales staff. I was, it was really just about like, what's the other guy charging? Yeah. Yeah. I'll beat him. And they, and they're like, well, can you do it? I don't know. We'll figure it out. And it just turns out that that started it. So I'd say it's probably not the right way to do it, but it worked and it continues to work. Chris: Well, you've, you gotta find the market price for things, right? Like that's always the hardest thing, especially in an area like Knoxville. And were you working in Knoxville specifically? So like working with small businesses in Knoxville and stuff. Like, I don't mean to complain about Knoxville, but I will say it here, I've noticed there's Knoxville pricing and then there's everywhere else. You probably know what I'm talking about. So there is a little bit of this good old boy mentality of like, oh, I gotta make sure I give you a good deal for what you're doing locally. And if you don't give that, then they're gonna go find somebody who will do it cheaper. So there is that battle. And I, it feels very central to Knoxville when I say that. 'cause I've found in other places it's like, well if I'm working with a client in New York where I'm working with a client in Silicon Valley, that's a much different animal. And they, they're like, oh yeah, that. Two x fee or 10 x fee that you're paying, like, yeah, we'll pay it without even thinking. And you're like, man, did I charge enough? Any, anytime they come back and say, okay, I am like, did I charge enough? Man, I, I must have underestimated this, but it's, it's still always a challenge. So, yeah, I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with, with trying to guess and trying to figure that out when you're first starting out too. You learn over time Andrew: a hundred percent. And it's, you know, at the beginning it was. You've gotta be real fast and you've gotta be real good. And you've, and, and you don't. We're all kinda learning together now. It's like when people invest in, in logic and brainchild and, and as we're moving, you're not investing in someone that's trying to figure it out. You're investing in 20 years of experience. Mm-hmm. And I think there's a big difference in that. It, you know, now when I look at things, we're gonna be tackling projects in a way that is so much more defined. You know, KPIs get defined, goals get defined, and ultimately expectations, which I think is so critical and often overlooked and in, in so many things where it's really trying to understand what it is that a client really wants out of this. Right. Because we don't take the time to really. Let them know that and understand and define it and be able to call a timeout. Listen what you want, that ain't gonna happen. And, and it's okay to say that and I, and I really, that takes some time learning if something can work out. But once you can understand that and be able to set that expectation, you'll find, I have found that clients appreciate it when you can push back and go, listen, I wouldn't feel comfortable jumping into this ring with that expectation. That makes a big difference. And, and you start just building, you find your superpower. There's a lot of, I mean, and now, golly, I mean there are so many agencies out there doing various things, which is why Logic really had, you know, we are a real diversified. Sort of portfolio of offerings that we do. I mean, you want a website? Sure. You know, and there's a hundred website groups out there and, and they're good. Yeah. Right. I mean, whatever. I think being again, able to understand how those audiences are gonna interact and really what it is about that is, makes a difference and separates logic from a lot of the herd. But you come to us and all of a sudden it's like we, you start to. Unfold these like different layers of what we do. You want a, you know, 50 foot troll, you know, created out of fiberglass that you can use at an attraction? Yeah, yeah. We can help out with that. You want have a mini golf course that we're gonna build out? Yeah. You know, and do, yeah, yeah, we can do that. You want to, you know, S-E-O-S-E-M, social media, blah, blah, blah. Like through the years, I really wanted to define not only my team, but the brands that I bring to the table as not necessarily just like a one stop shop, but as some, a very unique group of individuals that lean into a lot of different superpowers that can help bring your ideas to life. And, and through the course of 20 years, I have found these relationships throughout different companies. Like at the end of the day, I just like to keep everyone in sort of this web of like, called a good old boys club, but it really is just a. Bunch of bad asses that are so good at working together that if listen, you call this guy and this is gonna happen. You call this group and let's work here. And, and next thing you know, you've got a, you've got a company that came to you that has all of their problem solved. Mm-hmm. And I know these groups that they're working with, and they can call me and I kind of act as that central conduit where if anything's going wrong, yeah, yeah. We're gonna make sure that we, we fix this. Mm-hmm. And that's just time and energy being put into building relationships throughout every single vertical that affects an A company. In, in the marketing space. Mm-hmm. Like don't call me for hr. Chris: Right, right. Andrew: But if you're trying to find an audience, impact an audience and have a true, like KPIs that reach a goal in conversion. Yeah. Let's talk so. That's been a big part of, I think, of what separates us. It's the relationships, not just client relationships, but really that we, I used to call 'em Rolodex. That was a small gadget that had paper in it that you would write names on. Chris: I, yeah. Some, some, some of our listeners are going to need that explained to them, so thank you. Andrew: Google it. Alright. Chris: Yeah, yeah. No, no. I, I like to call it having a stable. Yes. Um, I've always heard it as like, you know, you have your race horses, you have your stable of people that you can go to when you need a specific job done or a specific task. Andrew: Right. Right, right, Chris: right. But yeah, that's, that's, I think that's vital in today's day and age, especially with the number of demands or questions or requests that a client puts on you, you just never know when you're gonna need to stretch out and do something completely, you know, outside of what you were maybe planning on doing. Andrew: Want to launch Chris: a podcast without the hassle. Humble Pod makes podcasting easy from concept to launch. We'll help you create a professional engaging show, already have a podcast. We handle editing, show notes, transcriptions, and even video production so you can focus on your content. With our tailored services, you get high quality production, seamless publishing, and expert support at every step. Whether you're starting fresh or leveling up, humble pod ensures your podcast sounds amazing and reaches the right audience. Visit humble pod.com to get started today. Andrew: Right. I, I mean like this podcast, I mean, ultimately I got, you know, you reached out and it was like, oh, that's cool. Let's go do a thing. Well, this becomes another tool that I can offer some. Like, Hey, do you need, would this be, yeah, sure. Let's, I've got a guy. And I think to your point, the world is very crowded and there's a lot of noise and it, and everyone seems to scream so loud that you have from large corporations to startup companies, they are trying. To figure out who to use. And when you start going down that path, it's almost like you, you don't want that trial by fire. Because most of these companies, and I take this super serious, I mean most especially in that startup, small to medium businesses, if you're taking a check from them, that's the check that they could have fed their family. That's the check that's paying the rent, that's the car payment that like take it serious. And I take it serious, not only from the small to medium, but from the large and enterprise groups. And I think far too many companies out there don't look at it from that prism. Like this is a big deal. They're not just getting money for free and wondering who wants this. You know what I mean? Like this is real time stuff. Yeah. And if it's 500 bucks or if it's 50,000 bucks, like, uh, I take all that with a. I don't know, expectation that I put on myself and everyone that that's on my team, that you don't just take a check because you can. Mm-hmm. You take it because you have an idea and you see a result because it, it makes a difference. Mm-hmm. And, and I think our clients really feel that way. I mean, you could, I, I say this with full transparency, call anyone that we've either worked with or are working with, and I don't think you'll hear a negative. I, I think, you know, there's gonna be people out there that we, that, that understand that. You come with this brand, that's what you get. And, and that's really, I think what, I don't know if it separates us, but it's something that I, I like to be able to feel, I dunno, give it a shot. We will see. I could be wrong. Chris: Yeah. But I mean, again, that I, I appreciate that you're taking that level of seriousness to it, to the people that you're working with. 'cause it's, it's a risk. You're putting yourself out there too. And you know you want to be a trusted partner for somebody, especially when you have a wide breadth of services that you offer. Speaking of trolls. 50 foot trolls. Andrew: Let's go Chris: now. Now I've, I've seen some of your work. I've seen some of this stuff, and it really fascinated me. Another side note about myself, I've actually made costumes in my past, like handmade costumes, using foam, using plastic, using resins, all the fun stuff. And so I've, I've have some experience in that arena of fabrication and it's always fascinating me. I had a friend for the longest time telling me, dude, you just need to start a costume company and make costumes for a living. And I'm like, yeah, but it's just, it's not my thing. I tried it for a little bit and it's the most, like for me being an extrovert. It is the most lonely job, especially when you're starting on your own and you're the only one commissioned to do it. Um, and on top of that, I have this natural reaction when I make mistakes to hit control Z. It's a literal physical reaction now, but I digress all that to say how, how did this come about? How did you get into making 50 foot trolls and not just 50 foot trolls, but the fabrication and all that in addition to S-E-O-S-E-M, all that other stuff you do. Andrew: Okay. First of all, uh, you're a Renaissance guy. Like go to renaissance fairs with like the com No, I don't. I don't do rent Chris: fairs. I've always wanted to go, Andrew: dude, they're should go. So good man. I love it. To live in the land of illusion and just, oh, it's amazing. So again, it really what that it was a byproduct of, I was working with a client, they were incredible, you know, big in the attraction space up here in locally, the Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge. I mean, you go in there, it's sort of a hotbed for entertainment. We have a ton of people coming through there, and now it's kind of turning into this almost Vegas mentality. Of who can be bigger, better, and you know, faster. And so I had a client, incredible group of people, they're, they're awesome. And they were working with a group that was building these big fiberglass things. Mm-hmm. Right. And ultimately, you know. With logic. There's a, there's a big consulting part of that, so we don't just, oftentimes it's not just come in and do a thing. Mm-hmm. We come in as consultants, we come in really looking at things through all different area, you know, areas. And so as I was working with this client, we also notice that there were these line items of these projects. Well, they were large and I was. It it, and it was, the question started coming, like, what is that? And why do you hate the team that you're working with? Like, that's weird to me. And that's where I, I like to find my niches, which is ultimately where clients don't feel like they're getting the customer satis, you know? They just don't feel like they're being heard. And so as this, as I was watching this unfold for, you know, a year, two years, my wheels started spinning, like, there's got to be a better group out there. I gotta figure this out. So it became a puzzle. Mm-hmm. Initially, and I found these guys and girls that were doing these incredible projects, but they almost didn't have a voice. Well, I'm really good at bringing voices to quiet things. And as I met this team, I started having meetings with them. I started watching what they were doing, how they differentiated from other groups that were being worked on, you know, that I had clients. Paying, you know, writing checks for and not really happy with. And these things weren't working, and the frustration that was happening. So ultimately my job became this, uh, almost like a scout. And I found this group of rock stars that were just so creative, and they had this incredible talent, but they didn't really have a voice and they didn't really have a clientele basis that was, I don't know, big, you know, at the end of the day, they, they weren't making, there just wasn't a ton of money coming through, but they had talent. And I think the thing that separated them is their desire to make sure it was right. It's like broken people can understand broken people and, and especially broken people that really have this need to like, you like me, right? You like me, right? Like, I did a good job. And I found that sort of, that desire to do things the right way, even if that meant. That you were going to at, at the end of the day, you weren't making money. And that was like, Ooh, we've gotta fix that. Like, you guys are too good to be losing money. I've got an idea. So I spent 12 months this watching, getting to know, trying to understand what this world was, and then ultimately it, I, I came to the client and I said, Hey, don't write that check. I've got an idea. What if we try these guys over here? And, and they were like, who are they? Wait, what? They're, and it just so happens they were in their backyard. So they were so quiet, they were in their backyard doing a thing that they were working with someone that was outta state. And so that helped, I think, at least the momentum. And, and this team, you know, which is, you know, brainchild, creative, all of a sudden they, they, we showed up and I said, I'm gonna run as sort of almost like a DP because listen, my name, if this doesn't work out, that's bad because these, you know, these are big projects that mean a lot. Again, going back to that, these guys are writing a check. We gotta take this real serious. Yeah. So, and we got to work and, and you know, client decided to take it. You know, I shout out to Chucky Blaylock, um, top concepts, let's go. They took a risk and it absolutely home run. I mean, it was just incredible. And, and the team was incredible. And, and then as I was, as that was happening. I started like, Ooh, we can do this. More. Like there's more people out there that are having this problem with other groups that we can solve. Yeah. And it's not about, the other guy is bad. Same thing with logic. Listen, there's a lot, it's a crowded space, but they have a niche that wasn't quite, I mean, not many people can sit at the table and be like, literally you, what do you want? And my only que, my only question is time and money. It's not a, if we can do it, it's time and money. And that, that's a, my ego loves that, right? Like, that's so good. That's Chris: always fun. Andrew: Oh, when I can sit across the table from Dollywood, Ripley's, we just started a project with the Milwaukee Brewers. When we're doing things in Texas, when we've got a, I mean New York, we've got a project with a big group on the Hudson Island. When you can sit at a table and without a drop of sweat, go, yeah, yeah, we can do that. It's just time and money. If you can afford it, we can build it. That's. Fun. You know, that's a cool gig. And, and so yeah, that's brainchild we run, you know, parallel. And again, that's a tool in that logic marketing toolbox where if I'm talking to a, to a group that needs a thing, I mean, we work with municipalities around where, you know, we were talking to a group and, and they're just, they wanna be known for something. Right. Like I'm a community, but we don't stand for something. What can we stand for? I don't know. Let's talk And, and that's where the logic, so you have this marketing element that gets brought into a fabrication group that is so accustomed to, can you build a widget? Yeah, we can build a widget. We come at it from this perspective of like, before we build the widget, let's understand the why behind it. What's that really gonna do? Is this worth, is the juice worth the squeeze? And and a lot of these companies come to us and they're like, we just wanna stand for something. We wanna be loud. We want people to see and be able to interact. And then the process starts. And uh, we do a lot of mini golf courses. I mean the, the ton of those, we do a lot of, you know, stuff for national companies where you walk into, you know, a mall and you've got a thing. That's it. It's across the board, signage, elements, environments. So, yeah. But it's, it's a ton of fun and it's, it's a another way to be able to grab attention. Engage your clientele, get a wow factor, integrate into that social space where people can, you know, want to take a picture with a cool thing. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Chris: Yeah. Andrew: Brainchild, let's go. Chris: I, I love that. And it's, and it's great too that you were able to jump in and help them, because a lot of companies in these smaller niches don't always have a good way of developing business. Like, unless you're just an absolute gangbuster salesperson and you know exactly who to go to, it can be hard to sell in that space. And sometimes it can be hard to just go to somebody and say, Hey, you need a 50 foot troll. How, how do you just walk out there and tell somebody that, and, and that person may be out there, but like selling someone on that is very hard and it's, you know, it's gonna be a niche thing. It's, it's no surprise that you're doing these things all over the US because not everybody in Knoxville needs that. Now. We are in a very unique area given the tourism and everything of the Smokies and everything else. But yeah, I mean, like where else do you go outside of that to put a 50 foot troll? I mean, there's plenty of places in Florida, I'm sure, but you know, there, there's a lot of things you can do with it and it's just, uh, it's neat to see you kind of take, take them under your wing and, and help build that business. Um, build that business up too. That's awesome. Andrew: It's, it's, it's great. And I encourage business owners. I mean, if you have a thing where that people are at, right? Like, I mean, not everything has to be over the top crazy, right? But those in the world that we live in today. If you can lean in and have a really cool, just a wow factor to your building to, I mean, we do things on thing we do on top of cars, right? Like big fiberglass things that just give a wow factor to a car. Or we do billboards where you have, you know, the three dimensional billboards where you've got a shark coming out of it and it's it. You can take these things that people are so accustomed to and turn them into wow factors. It's, I mean, if you can't, if you can't afford it and you see the value in that, it's such a cool thing to separate yourself from the herd. And that's what I think logic marketing brain like everything that we bring to the table is about how do you separate yourself and be able to provide an audience. With an experience. Mm-hmm. I mean, we live in this experience world, right? If you're not giving experience, who cares? If you've got the best widget? People are willing to not take the best if they're gonna have a cool time. Right? Like, if they're gonna have that, Ooh, that was fun. So, yeah, I encourage everyone think outside the box. We don't live in a world now where you're confined to, you know, well, I, I can only, I can, you know, I'm limited. You're not limited. Like some, I think agencies out there try to fit different companies into boxes because it fits their niche. Listen, I have clients that call us and they want a thing, and I talk 'em out of it, you know? And that's, that's a good thing. It's, it's a great thing. Yeah. If you're insistent, you're gonna have to go somewhere else. 'cause I don't feel comfortable taking that money. 'cause I don't think it's a good idea. And if they go somewhere else and it's a home run, God bless you. But it's just, I again, take it real serious. Chris: Yeah. Yeah. There's, I, I think, I think it's a challenging balance of like, you don't wanna harsh someone's mellow, so to speak, on probably not the right term to use in this conversation, but Andrew: Right. Chris: But you, you know what I'm saying? You, you don't, you don't wanna shut somebody's idea down that might be really good or might really benefit them, but at the same time, if you've seen enough and know enough, it's like you gotta ask questions. You gotta understand, and they have to understand that you're, they're coming to you as an expert and you may have a very valid reason as to why you're like, dude, no, don't do that. And so I I, I completely, you know, there's, there's a lot of wisdom in that, a lot of experience. So yeah, I would say go with God if, if they're gonna push back and be like, no, no, no, I want this to, you know, I want to go viral. That's the thing I, I used to hear all the time and it was just like, yeah, well, there's more to life than going viral. And actually going viral is a lot of combinations of factors and budget depending on what you're doing. And, um, you, you may not have that. Andrew: Yeah. And you're right, that whole dialogue, it happens almost daily in the office where you have clients that they, that viability and, and you've gotta remember that at the end of the day, there are. Billion dollar companies out there, and if it was just writing a check, pick any of the, you know, billion dollar companies, they would, that's all you would see. It is a lot of combination of being able to sort of systematically grow this idea. And then there's an element of luck. There's an element of did you do it the right thing, the right time, the right people pick it up, but it's not as easy as, as just write a check, which is, you know, to that point where if, if you've got a client that, that comes to me with that time out, Chris: it's a red flag. Andrew: Right? Yeah. I just, we can do a thing that your audience can a really love and if you stick to that authenticity of who you are and really stay true to your audience, let your audience start that viability and create your, you know, have, have some pride and understanding that you're, that you are. Focused on your audience, your message, your brand, because that's when you're gonna have that like die hard group. It's a lot of fun. And then you just test the waters. Hey, there's not a month that goes by that we don't do stuff that crashes and burns all the time. You know? And it's okay. Everything's a teacher. Everything's a teacher. We're gonna learn. And I'm very upfront with that, with clients there. This, these are not all home runs. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of strikeouts, but the strikeouts allow us to learn why. What happened, what it do, how do we do it differently? Just don't repeat it. Chris: So moving on to where you're at today, like what are you looking forward to in the next year, five years as this business continues to grow and build? Andrew: Uh, I mean, I'm looking forward to watching my kids graduate, my grandson, my kids going to college, my other sons being a senior. I mean, that's my true north. That's, that's my most important thing. And, and that's where I absolutely lead into as far as the, the excitement behind the company. It's really being able. I think we live right now in this culture. I mean, everyone's been talking about AI for years. We, you know, we've used AI for the last, I dunno, six, seven years to some degree, right? Like, it used to be a thing that was almost like a, a small stepping stone that would help you get to a destination. And nowadays you're finding that so many people are using it as complete bridges. And, and I think we're, I mean, we're already seeing a lot of pushback from that, and I think we're seeing a lot of that in that social space, in that marketing space. And, and the next year, I really am, I, you know, this is what we are always focused on, almost like daily is how do you sort of. Integrate the technologies that are good for not only us, but for other businesses without turning this into just an AI generated world. And, uh, like the pushback's already happening. I mean, hop on your Instagram, your snap, it's, it's like, can I see a real human? Can I please get some authenticity and rather than just hearing what your garbage prompt created. And so I think a lot of what we are focused on is how we stay, how we help businesses stay true to their au authentic voice without having it just become this prompted AI voice that almost stands for nothing. And, and that's a fine line because everyone now that's out there, they're the smartest. They've got all the information, the da, da, da. And so we really lean into the human aspect of being able to have these conversations. Mm-hmm. Understand how do we implement this to where it's most successful without completely damaging your look because. The audiences of today, and I think we see it in our own selves. We're quick to divorce, we're quick to just be like, no, I can't take it anymore. And once that fish is off the hook, it's real hard to get 'em back. I want, and the teams are all building towards that as far as verticals go, really, I, I'm, I'm really focused in on trying to help those individuals out there that are struggling at that more like political space. Mm-hmm. I think we're, we live in this weird political. You know, diverse. Everyone's got a, an opinion about it. But I like to find these spaces where we can come together and, and with my background, a lot of that, you know, surrounds all everyone that's dealing with mental issues, addiction issues. I mean, listen, we're we, we're a culture that, a, we're all addicted to something, you know, we're all worshiping something. We're all, I mean, just this genetic code in us is, has these ingrained things that I want to feel wanted, I want be able to worship a thing and I want to pick a team. And my side that I'm cheerleading is I try to stand in the middle of the field and look at these two teams that are fighting and go time out man. This life stuff, it's quick. I see people dying, golly, it seems weekly and, and good humans doing, trying their best. And when you see this like world through that prism that this. It's the little sentence in a book that we're living in. It ends and, and I, I hate it when it ends too fast. And, and I wanna stand in the middle of the field and look at both sides and go, can we, can we stop? Can we really start to look at things that, that bring us together? And how can logic take these narratives and 20 plus years of experience and be able to stand in the middle of the field and bring people together? And if that takes me standing on a stage and preaching what I think is right, or I don't even know if it's a right thing, it's, it's an idea. And as I talk about these ideas, I see these teams on either side. That's where a bridge gets connected. And if we can meet in the middle man, that's where the good stuff happens. So that's a big focus of where I am putting my efforts. And listen, Chris, at the end of the day, that 14-year-old scared kid, I'm sitting in it, you know, it's like, do I wanna put myself out there and have these conversations where I know it's, it gets uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. And I'm, am I willing. I think so that's a branch that is right now growing, that we're gonna find out if it becomes stable enough for me to walk on. I feel like I have an opportunity, you know? And when I sit with God and we have these conversations and my faith kicks in, you know, the, the worst thing that. That happens is when my soul says, you're not giving that, that gift, but I give it in the way that I can. I, I go to the jail almost every other week and I sit with convicts and I talk to 'em and I say, gosh, guess what? Yeah, I've been there. We're gonna, we're going to, there's a bridge that we can do this. Come on. And there's nothing cooler than sitting in a jail cell with people that feel like they're broken and then walking into a 12 step meeting and seeing that guy six months later walk in and you give him a hug and standing on a stage and, and talking about it. And I take all of that personal stuff and I intertwine it with the logic marketing stuff. And I feel like there are. Ways that they can work together to help make this world a little bit better. That's a really long-winded answer, but yeah, you tapped into kind of my heart space, so yeah. That, that's, I guess, I don't know. Talk to me tomorrow. Chris: No, no, no. I, I, I, I, I, I see a lot of value in that. One. One thing I will say, I love the fact that when I ask what you're looking forward to, first answer is family. First answer is that, and, and, and I think that speaks a lot to you as a person and you know, the character that you bring to everything you do. But, but I, I totally, I totally think there's a lot of value in that, having. Run a business now myself for eight years. It's, I'm, I'm coming up on this time of like, oh yeah, family's important. You can't, you can't neglect that. You can't forget that. And after it's all said and done, that's what you're gonna have. You're gonna have the memories of your family, the memories of those who love you, and they're what's gonna matter more than what happens with Chad GPT tomorrow. Which side note, did you know? They just shut down Sora. Andrew: It's gonna be interesting. Chris: It's, there's, there's a lot of signs coming that, that market's crashing, but that's, that's for our other clients at Talk Tech to discuss. But, but that definitely, that's definitely indications that AI is already starting to go the way of the dodo, or at least, at least this iteration of trying to commercialize it in the way that they are. Andrew: I agree. And, and listen, it's all part of what we do on a daily, I mean, I feel like the next big social platform is one where it's just that it, it's like. Not a part of it. Mm-hmm. Where they remove that completely because as, as people out there, it's, it's getting, it's an ugly space and I think that veil is easily sort of lifted and all of a sudden you look, I mean, I have kids, right? I mean, they're, they're here on their phone and they're doing their thing and they live in that world and that world is depression. It's anxiety, it's, I'm not good enough. It's what am I gonna do with my life? It is a host of that. You know, that's why, you know, my family get me in the woods, bro. Like, I want no cell service. I want a tent. I don't want a camper. I want to lay on the ground. I want to be able to breathe that stuff in, have a connection with God, and be able to just be like, oh, I think this is how we're supposed to be. I think we're supposed to be in this space and the detours into that sort of digital world. They're fun, but they shouldn't be all encompassing. And that A, those AI models, it's like, it's like they want you to just live in it, like disconnect for a little bit. Yeah. How do we bring back Yellow Pages? Chris: Well, there, there, there is a big push for authenticity. I mean, that's, that's very much something you see even with marketing right now. People want this experience that isn't tied to ai. A lot of the content that you see going viral and that people are finding a lot of connection with are the things that are very raw, look very half-assed, um, even potentially. But they, but they're human. They're, they're done by real people and it's not done with this artificial intelligence stuff. Andrew: Well, and let's Chris: talk, I don't sound like an old man saying, Andrew: no, no, no, but let's talk about like the group of kids coming up right now. Like those are our future staff. That's our future. Like the people that are gonna be running the show. My kids are in high school. I've got, you know, I've got one that's in college, you know, I've got one that's about to start college and one that's a junior about to be a senior. They in an environment where at the end of the day. How much are we really learning with these systems in place that are doing the work for us? Chris: Yeah. Oh, you're not, you're not Andrew: learning Chris: with ai Andrew: and, and that's, it's scary when you have, you know, high schoolers that, that have figured out if they can do the prompts right, they get the right paper and they can turn it in for that grade that they're looking for. I think we're gonna have to look at our education system and I worry about that, not just selfishly for my kids, but for the fact that we've got, that's the. That's our future. And if they haven't learned to get scars, right? Like, Ooh, I tried my best and failed. That builds care. Yes, fail. Get an F, do it, but do it while you're trying your best because that's where the magic happens, right? And if you're having a thing, do the work for you. Gosh, life just gets harder. I mean, I'm a byproduct. I grew up in the like no kid left behind world. I was never in school. Ever. And all of a sudden the end of the year would come on. They'd be like, yes, you passed. And I was like, how? That's impossible. I literally did nothing. It just made life harder. And if you're willing to put up with the hard golly, I guess. But I, I think that it's, it's gonna be difficult as we are seeing these kids that are raised in that environment that don't try to think it's gonna be tough. And that's our, that's the people we're gonna be dealing with. Mm-hmm. You know, that's the future staff. That's the future people that we're gonna be trying to talk to. It's an interesting space. Chris: It very, very much is. Well, as we wrap up, I always like to ask this question at the end. Um, this is, we built this brand. So what brand do you admire the most? At least right now? It doesn't have to be like all time. Andrew: I don't know if it's an individual brand, but one thing that I really am loving, that I'm seeing come out within this sort in media is this idea that brands are leaning into what they believe. And what I mean by that is you're now starting to see these companies and corporations that they're not even pushing their product. They're pushing this idea of what they stand for, and in the subtext of it, it's like, oh, yeah, brought to you by X, Y, Z. But what they want, and, and this is something that we were just talking about, these brands are coming out and they wanna stand for something. That to me, I love, it's not just this like. You know, do this thing and you're gonna get, like, where they're just waving their flag as loud as they can, as high as they can. They're standing for an emotion. They're standing for an idea. And, and I've seen several companies and, and some that we are working with as well, are doing this, which is sacrificing this desire to just plaster your logo and color palette as much as you can and hope someone remembers you. And instead take a step back and stand for something. Stand for a cause, stand for, for an idea that, that you really believe in as a company. And hopefully that thing that you're standing on and standing for. Isn't a side, but it's in the middle of the field that brings people together. Mm-hmm. That allows both of these teams that are just screaming and fighting with each other and you can throw a flag and go, Hey, how about me for this? I love that. And I think if we can see more of that coming out, it takes this idea of wanting to feel like the other guy is wrong and saying maybe we can all stand for some ideas and emotions and causes that bring us together that make the world a better place. Ah, man. I love it. Chris: Yeah, it's Andrew: good stuff. Chris: Yeah. Do you, do you have a brand that you think exemplifies that really well right now? Andrew: Logic Marketing. Chris: I love it. I love it. Andrew: What's my favorite brand? Uh, it's me. Chris: There you go. Andrew: I've never met Amir. I didn't love Let's Go. Right? I love it. Like, Chris: yeah. Awesome. Andrew: I mean, we try if, I mean, if I had to, you know, I can't tell other companies exactly everything to do in every way because brands aren't just what you see on the, on the computer screen. They're not just what you see in the cell phone. Listen, there's a lot of brands out there that I don't agree with what happens behind closed doors. And so if I was gonna cheerlead a brand, I would be very careful to make sure, like, can we come together at the table? Can we sit and all break bread and really lean in? But I know that about logic. I know everything that we stand for, and I know that authentic self. I know what happens at the dinner table. I know what happens when we, when we're praying. I know what happens when we're trying to do what's right for the community, when we're supporting the groups, when I'm sitting on boards and trying and da da, you know, selfishly, and it's funny to cheerlead my own brand, but in, in all authenticity, it, I love what, not just me, but what everyone under the roof stands for. Mm-hmm. It really is something that I, I love. And I appreciate, and I'm grateful for. Chris: Okay. I love that. That's, I think you're the first person on the podcast to actually say their brand is the one, but, but the way you explain it, I, I think, yeah, that's, that's, that's perfect. That's Andrew: awesome. It's like ego and love battling and I feel like love won at the end, which was good. Chris: Yes, yes, yes. We, Andrew: we, that I, Luke Skywalker's hand turned black, but then it was like, no, wait a minute. OB one. That's Chris: awesome. So Andrew, where can people connect with you? Where can people get to know more about Logic Marketing and everything that you do? Like how, how can they get in touch with you? Andrew: Uh, logic.marketing, we're super cool. We don't have a.com so go to the website, give me a shout. There's several ways to connect. Look me up on any social feed. You can find Logic Marketing on all of those. You can find me. Hey, hit me up. If you've got a fun conversation, want to talk. Listen, this is not a company where you're gonna talk to the sales guy and this and that and that. No. Call me. I mean, listen, I'm busy, but there's always time to break bread talk. If you've got a cool idea or a thing, let's sit down and figure out if we work together, because that is, uh, that's what it's all about. Brainchild, brainchild, dash creative. Go there. You can check them again on all the social platforms. Look at the cool stuff. There's a whole lot of, wow. Feel free. I mean, I, I give myself, listen, we live in a world where you can't hide from it. Call cell. Well, you know, it's, at the end of the day, I'll, I'll eventually call back and pick up and we'll have a great time. It's gonna be weird. I'm up at four 30 every morning. I'm in bed probably around 10, 11 o'clock at night, so there's plenty of time of the day for us to have a few minutes. Chris: Awesome. Oh, well thank you Andrew, so much for being on the podcast today. I really appreciate you Andrew: so good, brother. I appreciate you. I thank you and uh, anytime. Like I said, if you ever wanna dive into the darkness, man, that's where it gets fun. Say and don't ever hesitate. If you wanna do that, gimme a shout. Chris: Yeah, absolutely. Thank Andrew: you. Appreciate you brother. Chris: Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand. Don't forget to like and subscribe on your player of choice. You can also keep up with the podcast on we built this brand.com. 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