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AI in Industrial Real Estate · Industrial Advisors

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Agency is the new currency.
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If you want to explore the world, well, I have good news for you.
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You have more opportunity than ever before, right?
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If you wanna learn something, you've got more opportunity than ever before.
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If you wanna do nothing, you can.
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The real thing we're now facing is actually discovering.
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You know, the, the, the world is gonna be pretty, there's
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gonna be a ton of optionality.
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Welcome to our Industrial Advisors podcast.
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You have Bill Condon and Matt McGregor, and we have a fantastic,
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uh, guest with us today.
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Uh, Zach Cass, who we heard at IAMC, he was a keynote speaker, uh, at
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our IAMC conference in Sacramento.
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He's an AI futurist former head of GTM at Open ai.
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Was a fantastic speaker at the event.
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We said he was one of the best speakers we've ever, ever heard.
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Um, I said the best, I said the best just for the record.
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Um, and obviously with.
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All the AI stuff that's going on we are super excited about, about this podcast.
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And what's kind of cool is Zach just jumped on to this and, uh, is
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at a cafe in Manhattan because he couldn't quite make it to the office.
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They, they had an event that went long.
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And so we're just gonna do this thing with Zach, uh, in a cafe in Manhattan.
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And so, Zach, it is awesome to, to have you join us.
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Uh, thank you for taking the time and making this happen.
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Thank you both for, for being here.
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And should we tell everyone now this podcast is sponsored by me.
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Thanks.
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You know, and now, now they can make sense of all your, all your kind words.
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It's now.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I'm kidding.
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It's not, not not sponsored.
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Zach, before we get kicked off, why don't just give a little bit of your background?
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'cause you know, when you're on stage, I think you'd said you'd been in.
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AI for 19 years, and I'm like, I thought AI was only like two years old.
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Right.
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So I was like, so give us a little bit of background of, you know, your, how long
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you've been in AI and what you've done.
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Yeah.
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Well, I spent my whole career, 16 years, I spent my whole career in ai.
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I, I joined a machine learning, but I joined a, a company trying
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to do data labeling, human data labeling at scale in 2010.
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This was the year that we, for context, the term data scientist was
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born out of Facebook around 2009.
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And so it's sort of like the, the advent of, of what you could consider
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modern AI when statistical machine learning started getting good enough.
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If you had the money and the compute and the data, which very few companies did.
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I mean, Google, Amazon, Facebook, a few others, you saw companies like, uh, IBM
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building Watson and making these promises.
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But it wasn't, you know, it wasn't good enough unless you were really,
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really, really well capitalized.
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And so I worked in this category.
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Called data labeling for a company called CrowdFlower, which became fee eight.
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And then that became massive category now dominated by scale AI among others
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companies you've heard of, and then eventually found my way after working
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at a couple other large language model companies to, uh, to open ai.
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First of all, I gotta give you, uh, some props on the way
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you shut the audience down.
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You are the only person I have ever seen.
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That got everybody to actually put their phones away for over an hour.
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And I thought of you, of all places, Zach, when I was in mass, uh, Sunday night.
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'cause I, I kid you not, I'm in mass.
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A lady's phone rings behind me and she answers.
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She answers it.
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She answers it.
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Yeah.
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And she
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starts talking and I turn around and I'm like, I go like this.
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And she goes like, just a minute.
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And she's talking and I'm like, and I thought of you.
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And I'm like, uh, we need Zach here.
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Right.
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Okay.
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So just tell, tell theAudience briefly.
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Station identification.
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I start all of my keynotes by asking the audience.
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A very simple, if I recall, IMC also had circular tables.
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So I asked the audience two things.
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I said, if everyone could return, turn their chair.
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So you're facing me?
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Yes.
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Also, uh, put away your phones.
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And I asked to everyone.
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It's like, look, if you need to work, I get it.
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Go outside.
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It's, I'm not offended.
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If you don't need to work, don't, don't open your phone.
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It'll wait.
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And also what, every time you do it distracts not just you, but the person
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next to you because device addiction is infectious, et cetera, et cetera.
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And if you speak to people as adults, and if you speak to people, and I'm also
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honest, I say, look, it hurts my feelings.
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So like when I see you on your phone, it makes me sad and, and that like,
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you know, doesn't make me feel good.
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So as long as I'm here, I'll tell you what you can do to not hurt my
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feelings and people respond to it.
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I mean, if you, you know, it's like people get it.
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What's amazing is of all the things that I do in my talk, it
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is one of the three things that are, is most profound to people.
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I mean, it, it, it's, it, you know, it really is like the talk weaves
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a lot of these ideas in, but people come up afterwards and they go, you
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know what I, I realized I need a better relationship with my device.
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And it's like you're giving people the, this opportunity that their pastor
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doesn't give them that they're like.
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You know, their partner doesn't give them to actually put their device
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away because it's a new voice and I'm, it's not lost to be that, like the
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novelty of my voice in this setting and also this much group think.
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'cause if you take out your device once Zach has said not to, you
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really are an alien in the group.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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It works.
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And so for you.
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It's one of these fun exercises.
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That being said, I have seen in the last six months the most egregious,
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I mean, I watched a guy the other day on the plane at 35,000 feet, take
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out his phone and just start talking.
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You know, someone called, took a call.
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No problem.
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And, and I, you used to just be like, oh, it's just the kids,
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but it's not just the kids.
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It's everyone.
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Right?
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It's like, yes.
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It is, it is, it is an indiscriminate disease.
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And their volume goes up, right?
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Yeah,
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yeah, yeah.
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It, yeah, nothing, it's, it's bad.
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Anyway.
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Well, I'm, I'm glad that I could, you know what?
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It works.
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It really never fails, but then you have an onus, which is to
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capture the, if you do that, you better be good, is what I realized.
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It's a gauntlet because if you're bad and people can't distract themselves,
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then you, you know, people are gonna remember how terrible you were.
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That's right.
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Lemme make sure you capture people if you're gonna ask them to do nothing else.
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Yes.
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Well, yeah.
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Well e everybody listening to this podcast, please put your phones
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down while listening to this.
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Right.
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Um, and, and I, Zach, real quick question this, you didn't say this at IMC, but
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you said it on YouTube a few months ago.
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There is a wave of scientific advances coming, curing, diabetes,
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all sorts of stuff because of AI talk.
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Hit that, if you could for a moment, what's the wave?
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What's it look like
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for those who are listening if you haven't paid attention?
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Um, the way this is happening right now is fundamental Science Discoveries used
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to happen very slowly and they would sort of build on each other, and now
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they're happening faster and faster.
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What's impressive about novel science is that novel science begets novel science.
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So when we learn more about.
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This thing, we learned more about that thing, right?
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Like car batteries like didn't evolve for a long time.
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And then we made some slight changes to improve the fundamental car
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battery and that had all these other consequences on like home batteries,
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Duracell, et cetera, which is why these companies make the same thing.
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So these, what we consider often orthogonal or ancillary
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discoveries actually end up having crazy other implications.
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So what's happening right now in novel sciences is everyone around the world
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is basically being supercharged in part because of ai, but also because.
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We are learning how to learn better and do and do more fast discovery improvements
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in material sciences, molecular sciences, particle sciences that we used to think
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of sort of being as inconsequential, are now having crazy implications.
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CRISPR is this obvious example, whereas like we learned how to modify
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DNA, we, it was very expensive.
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We weren't very good at it.
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Fast forward to yesterday, I don't know if you beat, both of you saw,
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we cloned two dire wolves, an animal that went extinct 12,000 years ago.
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Wow.
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Is now, is now howling at the moon.
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Wow, wow.
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Whether or not we should play God, that's like, you know, for, you know, Matt,
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you, you and me and your priest to argue.
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But I do think it, it's this reminder that all of these things
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that we have been learning about are now building on each other.
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And so the molecular sciences breakthroughs are fast and furious.
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Particle sciences breakthroughs.
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Microsoft a month ago announced that it had discovered a new matter, a new state
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of matter as part of their quantum chip.
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So they announced the chip and in the process said, Hey, we think there's
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something besides gas and liquid and solid and, and like there's this or, and, and
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we think there's this like other thing.
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This is now happening at a faster and faster rate, and nowhere is it
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being more noticed than life sciences because we're all afflicted by.
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You know, either personally or, or secondarily things like cancer
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and neurodegenerative disease.
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And so we used to be focused on all these, these like solutions, you
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know, better pumps for diabetes, better, safer chemotherapy.
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Now we're like, Hey, what if we go to the source?
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And so we are seeing radical ways of, of potentially not just solving or treating
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these diseases, but actually curing them.
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And the GLP ones are a step in the direction of, of curing diabetes.
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In the same way that like there's a bunch of drugs in the market right now that
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we think could actually cure forms of cancer and forms of neurodegenerative
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disease, and you have to pull on that thread and assume it's gonna happen.
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That is really incredible.
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I mean, it seems like AI is progressing at just such a, I. Such a rapid
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pace, you know, in all aspects.
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What would you say are some of the kinda misconceptions of AI currently?
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I mean, there's probably a lot.
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Well, it depends on who's ask, who's asking.
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Yeah.
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So let's say, you know, one of the biggest things that people fear is like,
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am I gonna lose my job because of ai?
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Yeah.
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Uhhuh, let's talk about that segment, because that, when,
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when you talk about ai, that's one of the biggest fears, right?
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Yeah.
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And I would love you
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to throw in the Waymo, uh, elevator combo that just in perception of ai, right?
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Yeah.
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Well, so what you're, yeah.
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Matt, what you're describing is what we've studied is as the societal threshold.
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What does it mean for us to, the question of whether or not we want
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to adopt a machine has nothing to do with, with whether or not
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it is capable of that thing.
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Right?
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So separating the technological threshold.
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What does a machine capable of from the societal threshold,
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what do we want it to do?
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Let's come back to that.
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Because I do think that the misconceptions about AI actually spur
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our sort of rejection of the societal threshold, but it's a consequence.
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I think the big misconceptions right now, well, for a long time people
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didn't think it was very good.
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Everyone was convinced that it wasn't gonna be good, and
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you had all these people I.
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Saying, you know, people that get a lot of airtime, Gary Marcus, a professor at NYU
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kept announcing that it was all smoke and mirrors and then changed his tune and now
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he's like, oh, it's just very dangerous.
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And then changed the tune.
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And now he's like, oh, it means Sam Altman's gonna get too rich.
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And you know, it's like there, the goalposts move a lot.
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Uh, and anytime these things happen a bunch.
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But I think of the, like, collective concerns.
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One of the big ones is around, uh, job displacement.
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And I think that the concern around job displacement is what is the, you
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know, what, what's gonna happen to me economically if we automate these jobs?
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And look, this is, you know, I.
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The logical thread that you, you, you're, you're pulling here is if AI automates
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our job, what will we do for work?
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Therefore, what will we do for money?
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Therefore, what will we do for food?
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Will we starve?
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And this is misguided, right?
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This is, this is clearly a misguided, uh, fallacy because.
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In a world where AI actually automates a lot of work, the world
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will get economically better.
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This is a rich tradition of technology.
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It makes the world economically better empirically, universally, yes.
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But it doesn't make the world necessarily a happier place.
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And the reason for that is sort of, they're multifaceted, but what's
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clear is that in a world where we are attaching more and more of identity to
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our work, it is hard and going to be even harder in the future for us too.
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Find purpose in a world where our work changes frequently and a lot.
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And so my message to everyone is, the misconception here around job
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displacement is that it is an economic issue when it in fact is clearly an
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emotional issue because the world is going to get much better economically,
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certainly if we ought to be work.
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And we all might find ourselves, all of us feeling a loss for purpose.
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And the obvious solution to this is, well, we should find purpose
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outside of our work and we should.
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Spend more time with friends and family and find more
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purpose in our day-to-day lives.
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But that is easier said than done, and certainly in a world where the
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rust Belt is feeling harmed and aggrieved, even though it's not like
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it's destitute emotionally, but in fact supported economically, right?
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Mm-hmm.
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Food stamps mean that no one in the United States dies of.
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Starvation anymore, whereas they used to, but that's not the principle issue.
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The principle issue is we took the jobs, we took the purpose, we took the meaning
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from these places, and they are destitute now as much sort of emotionally and
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spiritually as they are economically.
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And, um, and I, and, and you know, there are lots of studies
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on why economic success is not perfectly correlated to happiness.
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And Costa Rica is this amazing example of a place that is.
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Very happy.
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One of the happiest places on earth and also one of the poorest places on earth.
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So this, I think, is the thing people are missing, in fact,
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of all the things the most.
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Yeah.
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That's fascinating by the way.
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You told a a great story that that would mean a lot I think to the
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listeners of this podcast 'cause we're industrial about that relationship
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to the job and the future of the port and how they push back on automation.
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Maybe just touch on what you said about that,
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the dock workers, the, the late, the longshoreman went on
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strike in November last year.
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I think.
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Uh.
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It certainly caught my attention.
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I imagine it caught a lot of other people's attention, for sure.
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Yeah.
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And they, they, you know, they went out into the world and they said they had
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been seeing this trend of, of the, of the ports themselves starting to automate.
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And so the head of longshoreman said, we're gonna go on strike.
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And he pointed at the, at the nation on CNN and said, if you automate our jobs any
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further, that's why we're gonna strike.
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And so you need to guarantee that you won't automate our jobs.
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And what he was saying was.
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We need to guarantee that we can do this job.
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He did not ask for much more money.
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I think he asked for like 25 cents or 50 cents more an hour.
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Something very nominal.
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And critically, he did not ask for more job safety because you know what
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happens when you automate the ports?
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They get a lot safer.
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You get a lot safer.
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Yes.
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You know the things that the unions typically ask for money and job
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safety, it's not what he asked for.
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He said, I need to know that we're gonna have this job.
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And we went and talked to the longshore and a bunch of questions,
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told us everything we needed to know.
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One.
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What's the most important part of your job?
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Four.
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Four said community two.
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Do you believe you could be gainfully, employ, employed outside the ports?
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Three or four said yes.
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Three.
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Yeah.
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And there's in fact all evidence to suggest there's an incredible demand for
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skilled and semi-skilled physical labor.
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I. Right.
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Like especially the guys in Long Beach, a lot of people need needed
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to rebuild a lot of LA right now.
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Yeah.
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These guys are very skilled.
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I mean, there's a lot of construction work available.
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Three.
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Was anyone in your family in the union?
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Three of the four said yes.
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Their fathers were in the long, were in the union.
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Four.
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Do you want anyone in your family to be in the union?
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Three of the four said yes.
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One of the four said they were gonna continue having children
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until they had son, so that their son could be in the longshore.
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Wow.
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It's just clearly not an economic issue.
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That's right.
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And what I remind everyone is, you know, who benefits economically
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if we automate the ports?
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All of us.
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Everyone.
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Yeah.
15:13
Every
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person.
15:13
Yeah.
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Including by the way, the longshoremen eventually, like including
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their kids, like their prodigy.
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Like everyone gets better when we introduce technology into the world
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and yet no one actually wants their job to be the one that automates Right.
15:27
Right.
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And, and so we are, we're left now in this place where we're like, I
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want the world to be better, faster, cheaper, more resilient, more robust.
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I never want to face a wait for my stuffs.
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I don't, you know, I, I want the, I want the supply chain to be great.
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And then when faced with that, you know, reality of like, Hey, what happens?
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We have to automate your job.
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People go, well, not, not my job, because you know, who the long term we
15:48
wanna automate all the tax and account.
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And those people are sitting there going, well wait a second.
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Wait, hold on.
15:53
Not me.
15:54
Right?
15:54
Like, yeah.
15:55
Someone else, and this is, you know, this is just the, it's just,
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it's, it's easy to understand and impossible to solve for really.
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And, um, I think it's gonna be our generation's greatest sacrifice.
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I really think that our generation is gonna come to realize a, a, a, a, a
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profoundly economic, abundant world.
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And we may not have yet seen the bottom in terms of.
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Happiness.
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I really think we may have a, have, have ways to go.
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A lot of people are not procreating.
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A lot of people are not partnering.
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I know
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it's insane.
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A lot of
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people are living recruitive isolated lives.
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The rise of the incel, you know, men who have not had sex in their life is like
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tripled and, and I'm not, you know, it's like 18 to 25-year-old men who spend
16:38
all day playing video games inside.
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Here's a, here's a really messed up fact.
16:43
That I learned the other day for the first time, maybe in human history,
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but certainly for the first time in modern history, since we could study
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this, a father and a grandfather is more likely than their son to break a bone.
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Wow.
16:54
So forever.
16:55
Oh wow.
16:55
Oh right.
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The emergency rooms were flooded with kids, right?
16:58
Yes.
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You know, it's like, you know you have a boy.
17:00
It's like you know that that kid's gonna break their bone and then you're
17:03
gonna have to take the emergency room.
17:05
Yes.
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That's what boys do.
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They break their bone.
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That's insane.
17:07
Not anymore.
17:08
That's insane.
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What's the dad?
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Right.
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You can't break a bone playing video games.
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Right.
17:12
You can't break a bone playing video games.
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You can't break a
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bone strolling TikTok.
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Wow.
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Well, I'll say this.
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I mean, I, I had 10 baseball games between three of my boys this last
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weekend, so there's some broken
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bones in our future.
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Yeah.
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By the way,
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I, I, I will say that what I think Bill, you just pointed out is something that I
17:32
also stress in any of these situations.
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Everyone's like, well, not me.
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And I'm like, actually that's probably true.
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So like there's a confirmation bias if someone's listening to
17:40
this podcast, I mean, I don't know.
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You know, they're in a different socioeconomic space probably, but
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I. They're making a decision in their life to enrich themselves.
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Agency is the new currency if you want to explore the world,
17:53
well, I have good news for you.
17:55
You have more opportunity than ever before, right?
17:57
If you wanna learn something, you've got more opportunity than ever before.
18:01
If you wanna do nothing, you can.
18:04
The real thing we're now facing is actually discovering.
18:07
You know, the, the, the world is gonna be pretty, there's
18:10
gonna be a ton of optionality.
18:12
And the only good news about the lethargy and the isolation right
18:16
now, I. Is that the, those who are participating in it are miserable, right?
18:21
They're miserable.
18:22
Yeah,
18:22
yeah.
18:23
Yeah.
18:23
The
18:23
evidence is mounting that living an isolated life is the
18:27
worst thing a human can do.
18:29
That's right.
18:29
And
18:29
so I think we should expect to see this sort of reversion to a much healthier
18:33
mean, especially when we go and study and, you know, Bill's boys are gonna
18:37
live in a world that, that are profoundly better than the one we lived in.
18:41
Filled with all sorts of wonder and, and exploration and journey,
18:44
and they're be like, I don't, you know, what's everyone talking about?
18:46
Well, yeah.
18:47
You, you were raised to love the physical world and community and friends
18:50
and family and values, and a bunch of people were forsaken in that regard.
18:55
Mm-hmm.
18:55
Because they could, because you could truly just sign off.
18:57
Yeah.
18:58
And for a long time and
18:58
you, or you could not opt out of the society.
19:01
Now you can, you can just do whatever you want because it is
19:03
actually so inexpensive to be alive.
19:05
That's amazing to think
19:06
about all that.
19:07
It's also like interesting to think about like during.
19:09
How like the, and not to go back into the pandemic, but like people got like
19:14
used to just hiding out during the pandemic and then you have this like AI.
19:20
Boom.
19:21
Right.
19:21
That, that makes it even easier to like, just isolate yourself.
19:25
Not only hide
19:25
out during the pandemic bill, but they stretched it three years past it.
19:30
Well, that's, we're still calling people back.
19:31
It's insane.
19:32
Right?
19:33
They're back to the
19:34
office.
19:34
Yeah.
19:35
Yeah.
19:35
Anyway, bill, you, you might have seen this with your boys,
19:39
three boys, is that right?
19:40
We have a daughter and then, but she's in college and we
19:42
have three boys that are 16.
19:43
Oh, okay.
19:43
Uh, 13 and 11.
19:45
So the, um.
19:48
Average American male aged 18 to 24 to in 2019, spent an
19:53
hour a day playing video games.
19:56
Today, that number is almost three hours.
19:59
That's not surprising.
20:01
And what we saw during this co, we called it a covid bump, right?
20:04
We saw lots of things that were temporary ephemeral to covid, but the
20:07
device addiction and the isolation was not interesting, and the anxiety
20:13
and depression that has come from that, you know, sadly feels like.
20:17
Like a fixture of this generation in the same way, honestly, that like alcoholism
20:22
was a fixture of the greatest generation.
20:23
Mm-hmm.
20:24
Right.
20:24
Like, you know, it is like, and by the way, this is also my reminder, if you
20:27
snapshot the United States in the 1950s, you would assume we're all gonna die
20:31
of alcohol poisoning and cigarettes.
20:32
Right.
20:32
Right.
20:34
So my, my, my, my reminder to everyone is, and we figure it out, right?
20:37
And.
20:38
We get better all the time.
20:40
Every generation tries to fix the, the prior generation's
20:43
mis, you know, failures.
20:44
This one's gonna be
20:46
expensive.
20:46
Yes, it is.
20:48
That's fascinating.
20:49
Well, last question, let's tie it real quick.
20:52
Back to industrial real estate.
20:54
How is AI going to be changing?
20:57
Site selection and the way people per pick locations for fulfillment,
21:02
distribution and manufacturing.
21:04
So this is what I said to you all, and what I'll say to anyone in real
21:07
estate, which is I think the currency of the future is the physical community.
21:11
So like in a world where stuff gets really cheap.
21:14
Wilmore like, okay, you know, bill enjoys a life that his
21:17
great-grandfather couldn't fathom.
21:18
Right?
21:19
Yep.
21:19
Like he is like, yeah.
21:20
Luxury is beyond their anyone's comprehension for healthy, amazing kids.
21:25
You just like, you have everything.
21:27
What is the thing that like any of us would not just bill not to pick on
21:30
Bill, but any of us would want more of it's time with friends and family in
21:33
the spaces that we cherish the most.
21:35
Right?
21:36
Real estate, to me, it.
21:38
You know, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
21:40
Creating the spaces in which people live and work becomes critical
21:43
and creating the spaces that allow for those things becomes critical.
21:47
So my expectation is obviously AI is gonna be way better at like
21:51
making a more perfect market.
21:53
Is a site available is no longer maybe gonna be the thing that actually
21:56
helps a buyer and seller meet, right?
21:58
Like you have, you have these satellite images now that can find any warehouse
22:02
anywhere and triangulate should this, should someone make an offer here?
22:06
And what should the offer be?
22:08
Repricing a market, creating more fungibility in the market.
22:11
Obvious, but I think what's even more important is there's gonna be this
22:15
massive rise of the experiential economy.
22:18
My bet is that we, we live in a world where I. So much more emphasis
22:23
is placed on experiential economy and that the real estate market
22:26
will, will come to reflect that.
22:28
Moreover, we should expect to see just massive investments in the infrastructure
22:33
that powers this experiential economy, data centers, vertical
22:36
farms, uh, power plants, et cetera.
22:40
And so I'm not saying this to pander the audience, it's a pretty amazing
22:43
time to be in real estate because.
22:46
The actual use of like the one thing we cannot grow more of is land.
22:50
It's actually truly the one thing we cannot make more of.
22:53
And designing the spaces in which we live, work, play becomes so much more
22:59
important in a world where that we start to actually appreciate the scarcity
23:03
of that land and to not mention how much more infrastructure we're gonna
23:07
need to actually power all the things in our lives that we want to do.
23:09
Well, Zach, you were my favorite speaker at IMC.
23:12
You are now my favorite.
23:14
Guest on our podcast.
23:16
This, this podcast is typically 15 to 17 minutes.
23:19
We've doubled that.
23:20
Uh, I think this is our longest podcast, uh, that tells you how
23:24
interested, uh, we were in you.
23:25
And so thank you so much for joining us.
23:28
You truly were, uh, brilliant.
23:30
Thank you guys so much.
23:31
And, um, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll be around and we got a book coming
23:35
out that I'll bother you about.
23:36
You can send it out to your listeners.
23:38
Yeah, we'll for sure we'll put, uh, you've been, your contact, been information
23:41
in the footnotes here.
23:42
Yeah, absolutely.
23:43
Terrific.
23:44
Um, alright, well thank, thank you guys.
23:45
Thanks for putting up with this, uh, this space and I appreciate, I appreciate
23:49
you making time and taking an interest.