Latest / Unstuck Pod / Building Better Founder–Investor Relationships (Adam Shaw and Jamie Schneiderman)
Transcript
- Jamie Schneiderman: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Unstuck Pod. very excited today to have Adam Shaw as our guest. Adam has a super interesting background, going right back from his early days, entrepreneurial, like an entrepreneur right from the beginning. and but I I rather than me butcher it, I'm gonna pass it off to him and let him share more about his background with you. and and then of course what he's doing today. So, Adam, welcome. Thanks for coming on. Adam Shaw: Yeah, no, thank you so much, Jamie. I love you've done and we had a great conversation. hearing more about your background. I just love, talking about people's journey. So thanks for thanks for asking about mine. so yeah, high level. I grew up in a tiny town outside of Portland, Oregon. didn't have any entrepreneurs in my family, but I always had an entrepreneur spirit. down to when I was six, seven years old, I I started mowing laws and I realized, wait, this person has a little bit more money, they can pay me more and I can figure out ways to add more value, all these things. And anyways, I grew up in a family that was incredible, very supportive, but it different environments that made me grow up really, really fast and understood the value of money really early on. when I was in early before I was even in high school, I got into different ways of how do I build relationships with entrepreneurs in this tiny town. And so I started working at a golf course and I actually got into Amway and you know, I'd bring in my teachers and I would try to go to the gym and try to get people to come to my house and I'd get like fifteen people around and pitch them an way, right? And tell them how much they can make, how they can make money. Anyways, then I started up to do I did a clothing company. We had Justin Beaver, James Harden. And anyways just understood the value of networking, right? And I just always loved people. I always felt like I wanted to grow up faster. started studying international business when I was 16, went to college when I was 16, and then I ended up going and live in Taiwan for for two years actually with my church. And It was an incredible opportunity because it allowed me to learn Chinese, which was a very humbling experience. and but also let me go deeper into the international side, right? And growing up I didn't travel a ton, but I always had this again. I started studying international business. I always wanted to do international. So then I came back and I saw this need for you know medical supplies. It was kind of right before, right when COVID was kind of taking off, and I started networking relationships in China. I ended up started cold calling army bases and I figured out how to set up my SBA.gov for government contracts. And then I built that business from zero to 18 million in about two years. I was doing that while Jamie Schneiderman: Easy. Adam Shaw: I was while I was still in college. And then from there, you know, built up that business, had an exit, wasn't a great exit, learned a lot from that. And then I went a little bit private equity and then did e-commerce, right? Anyway, long story short, fast forward till now, I'm now co-founder, founders and funders for the relationship engine for venture. Jeff and I, my my co-founders, we travel the world. I have a six, I have a seven month old now. I have a seven month old, she's been on 17 planes, three different countries. you know, we travel a lot. And it's amazing. I get to meet incredible founders, and then with that, it's really the foundation of our fun, FNF Ventures, where Yeah, we've invested in about twenty C C P G companies. We also invest in tech, but only follow and yeah, just dedicated to to making an impact, right? I used to have this big goal of I wanna build a a multi billion dollar private equity company, creating an impact internationally, and then I wanna be a good husband and father. And now I Honestly, I just enjoyed the journey. I'm still, you I'm 28 years old early in my journey, but my goal is to be the best husband, best father, the best leader, and I hopefully create an impact in any way I can. So Jamie Schneiderman: Awesome. Well, listen, I I think you I think you hit on it with your background, just starting. Sounds like you you figured this out young, which is good, le relatively young, right? I don't I don't mean it in much younger than me. How's that? So so good for you, Adam Shaw: É. Jamie Schneiderman: for doing that. and exciting, exciting to be a relatively new parent. and unafraid to bring your daughter all over the world. That's that's fantastic. Adam Shaw: Ha ha ha Jamie Schneiderman: So so can you help me like Help me understand a little bit more about you talk about founders and funders and w what is it? what's the goal? What do you what are you trying to do there? help everyone understand that one a little bit better. Adam Shaw: Yeah. So founders and funders started eight years ago when Jeff Erickson was early on at Carta. It was actually called eShares at the time. And it was this tiny company out of San Francisco. They were looking to grow and Jeff came on and anyways, and so you, the whole goal was their their customers were founders and VCs. And so he had no budget, tiny company, and just started connecting VCs and founders. And it was just part of his job as Lee Gen. It was just driving relationships really. And then Carta, you know, he was there for about five years and went from you know 100 employees to 2,000 employees, right? And now it is what it is today. he then joined another company, and Jeff early on, right, he you know, him and his wife built a consumer good company for 10. Years, exited that to private equity. He was an angel investor, joined Carta early on, and so on. Fast forward, I came on because I really just wanted to build in-person relationships. I had some other ventures that were going, and honestly, some were actually going decently well. They became, they could have been really interesting opportunities, but I saw this opportunity in founders and funders, and I was like, And so now what we've built is the relationship engine for venture. What that means is we do VC reverse pitches all over as one of our trademarked events, where we bring in six to eight top VCs in that that city, San Francisco, New York City, Colorado, London, Toronto, et cetera. And then we bring in a hundred plus founders that have raised venture capital. And they're looking to raise their next round, and we flip the script, right? We have the VCs pitch to the founders and it creates a really human connection. But that's only one piece of it. We're creating the relationship intervention. So our our vision is creating an impact at every stage. And we do that by providing the capital, the VCs and our us as a VC, the tools. We work with Microsoft and Carta and all these other providers, law firms, et cetera, the tools, and then the relationships to increase the likelihood of success. And so what we're doing is we're building the foundation of a really impactful fund. You can't just give money now. You look at A16 and all these things, like they have to drive distribution. And so, and that's what we've done. We've built a platform to be able to add a ton of value to the companies we invest in and hopefully support other founders even outside of that. Jamie Schneiderman: So so, it sounds great when you're doing help me so so is this you you talked about the importance of personal relationships or per and and and interactions. How how much of the entire premise of founders and funders is about face to face and going beyond call it digital limitations and I I know that we're all spread out more, but but it sounds like you're you're trying to go you you have a different view about how that might look. Adam Shaw: Yeah. I mean, it's like right now you and I get to be on riverside and we get to connect over, you know, technology, which is absolutely amazing. Technology is incredible and it's still needed, right? Zooms are needed, WhatsApp, all these things. But I think as AI continues to grow and especially during COVID and all these things, like people want human connection. I I don't believe And I've learned this the hard way, right? when I was building that business, zero to 18 million, and I was also doing international business, and I had an office in Dubai and Hong Kong and China, right? I did a lot of Zoom and WhatsApp, and I did a lot of business with people that I never met before, less, but yeah, I still did that. I believe real relationships are built in person, and so yeah, all of our events are in person, and part of that is we want to create the human connection. the other piece of that is there's still a technology side, right? We've built a platform where we can add more value to these factors. Because Jeff and I, even though I would love to sit down with every single one of these founders, because being a founder is so incredibly hard, but also so incredibly fulfilling, I wish I could sit down with every single one of them. I can't, and I can't invest in every single one of them and probably shouldn't. But if we can create a platform that we can support these founders past, you know, just us giving a check, if that's you know, creating webinars or media, right? Like we'd love to do that. But we're very, very big about. creating in person relationships and and how powerful that can be. Jamie Schneiderman: Amazing. I think it's a fantastic. it's fantastic to say how do I give back to it, right? It's so easy as an investor. Yeah, a lot of investors talk beyond like about we give money, but we we add value. But it's one thing to say it, it's another thing to do it, right? To not to go beyond and to try to go there. l let's let's I I wanna shift gears just a little bit. obviously this is all relevant and you're seeing it in real time because you're involved in Meeting with founders and and funding and right, making your own investments, but you've also been an entrepreneur in many ways. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, there's two sides to to building a business. There's there's a lot of joy and there's a lot of pain. So I want to talk about when you're looking at companies, what are the things that you're seeing that Are making certain founders more successful over and over again? what what are those kind of patterns that that keep showing up for you? Adam Shaw: Yeah, I love that. I I think that's a great way to put it. There's a lot of joy and there's a lot of pain. And I think in life, if we didn't have pain, we wouldn't have joy, then we could have whole conversation on that. But as a founder, that's totally true. there's so many pieces of it, right? It's like, is this founder obsessed? Are they focused? Have they created product fit? Have they created traction? Like all of these things, but Honestly, it comes down to I think what it takes to be consistent and or sorry, when it could what it takes to be a successful person in general. It's focus, consistent, consistency, and execution, right? And you know, when I go to these events and you know, we just got on stage, and then afterwards, usually what we do is we we have all the VCs pitched, and then at the end we have you know, we networked before, and then at the end we have an opportunity. Network. And so all these people come up and they want to tell you all their ideas and all these things. And the biggest red flag I see, and I think it's happening more and more with AI, is somebody comes up and they say, I built this incredible company. We're here, you know, we have this much traction, all this stuff. And then then they go into this next company that they're building. And it's like, I think, and I I got told this by by a good friend of mine, Spencer Jam. There was a time where I I had some e-commerce companies, I was like, I'm gonna build a venture studio and I have all these factories, these factories will back all these these deals. And I thought it was a big opportunity. And I sat down with Spencer Jan, who, he built solo stoves, took it public, etc. And he said, Adam, you will never have true success until you just focus on one thing. And I think, especially Jamie Schneiderman: Hm. Love it. Adam Shaw: in venture capital, but I think even outside of venture capital. Until you focus on one thing, I don't believe you can have true success. Yes, there's Elon Musk in the world and all these things, but again, they have massive capital behind them and leaders and all these pieces. If you're a startup, life is already too complicated. Building a business is already too complicated to say, I can run this business or I can do this, or I can run this business while I support this other company as a consultant. No, I don't care if it's even two hours a week. Your brain power, your energy is on that business, right? And so I I I've made that, I've I've learned that the hard way. I've learned that where, like I said, I had some other ventures and there's a business that had equity in it. And some people could say, Well, okay, well, why don't you stay in? investor all stuff but it's like that business was giving taking too much of my energy and I was the co-founder of it too and it was it it was taking away too much on my plate of my energy and I had to get rid of that to just focus on founders and funders and FM ventures and so anyways long story short to answer your question Jamie Schneiderman: Well. Adam Shaw: it's it's that focus consistency and execution Jamie Schneiderman: No, I I I by the way, I'm keep going because it's great. Like your your answers are great. And and it's a really like I've written I wrote that down, right? You you never have true success until you focus on one thing is a great line. and I think it's too often people think that by diversifying or having other things that they're actually setting themselves up better. But you're saying the exact opposite. And I would personally I would agree. Which is focus is the only way to get there. and so so let's talk I let's flip this around. So we we you you gave me what you're seeing is making certain founders really successful. And you talked about, you know, focus, consistency, execution. I get that. let's talk a little bit about where things have gone wrong for some other in some of the businesses that you're looking at. And I and I'd love to know. Where are things that you're finding that companies are challenges that they're running into? when that's happening, what kind of stuff, what what that looks like. let's start there. Adam Shaw: Yeah, no, it's a great question. And and and just to be clear, on the the side of things of diversifying things like that, it's like they they talk about burning the boats, right? It doesn't mean you can't grow vertically or horizontally, right? You can you can build out your business, you can greet bring it, you know, you have to. As you build a business, you have to pivot, you have to keep expanding all these things. But I think the key is are you building a separate business? Are these actually, and really being honest with yourself, right? And so that goes into where people fall into these mistakes, right? It's like, I I think and there's a very good friend of mine, his name's Mark Phillips, and he runs Eleven Tribes. And he has this big thesis in venture capital where and there's some people at venture capital that they believe that if you're not building a multi-billion dollar business, you're not venture capital, right? If you're not trying to IPO, if you're not Silicon Valley, you're not venture capital. it's not venture, which venture capital literally means just risk capital, right? I mean, technically you could you could justify and argue there's a lot of businesses that are part of venture capital. Anyways, Mark Phillips talks about this, which I totally believe, that There's a shift happening in venture capital. There's a liquidity issue. And that's we believe that as part of our thesis as well. but there's also an issue of founders finding true success and finding true fulfillment. And so he's actually built this fund called Eleven Tribes. And what they do is they provide a two percent grant for every dollar they invest. And that two percent grant, you know, non-dilutive capital. Goes towards helping that founder be the best person they can be. That's mental health, that's working out, if that's whatever it is, right? It's just supporting that founder to be the best founder they can be. Because I think it comes down to. The founder, their relationships, things like that. I think where a lot of founders fail is when they don't have alignment in their life, right? And I I I've seen that, you know, I actually wrote a post about this on LinkedIn today because I've seen it myself. Like whenever I feel like I'm forcing something, if that's a relationship, if that's a deal, if that's an idea, and it feels like I'm forcing it. It's probably a really bad idea. It's probably it's not the right timing. It's not the right alignment. It's not this, right? And that's hard as a founder because we're visionaries and we want to come up with these amazing ideas, all stuff, and we want to challenge ourselves. But I think a lot of founders, they either try to force a co-founder, they try to force a, if it's CPG of influencer, they try to, force this new idea and opportunity. And it's like, you gotta listen to yourself. Understand what does success look like to you because that also depends on what what decisions you should make and what journey you go on. But also listen to your customers, right? when someone comes up to me, they're This is such an incredible day. I had this, I I had this lady, and I won't talk about the exact company, but she had this big idea, and I love I saw her passion, I loved it. But I'm like, she's like, Yeah, but the the customers don't understand it. And and and that's just because they don't understand it. I'm in the wrong demographic. That could be the case, or it could be that you're trying to force something and You just gotta listen to it. And maybe the timing Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Adam Shaw: is wrong, maybe the alignment's wrong, maybe there's something, but I think when people stop forcing it, they usually find success. Jamie Schneiderman: I so and I I that example and the way you described it is amazing. Like so so good and don't don't force it. I I just would just tell you that I I I mem recall myself saying early on with with what my first business was, like I don't want to say the I don't know if I said the customers are dumb. I may have, right? I I just knew better. and and the truth was that They weren't we weren't doing a good enough job of being clear about w what was in it for them and what what we were and why it was different. You know, like the point is is that back to your point about forcing it, just assuming you can jam it down people's throats and that's what it is, as opposed to I like to say pull versus push. If you can pull, Adam Shaw: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: pull gets very easy. Pull feels different, push is very hard. And and your example is a fantastic. is a great example. So, okay, so so if you're thinking about so so you're dealing with all these founders and you're dealing with investors. I actually would love to know from you if you were gonna give advice. I always ask for advice for the entrepreneurs, but I actually want to know what advice you'd give. investors, right? You see both sides of this so well. You are one yourself. So, but what advice would you give the guys that are showing up and pitching what they're doing? And and, maybe they take it, maybe they don't. But I'd love to hear from you what you think about that. Adam Shaw: that's so funny. I mean, like, I didn't even get into venture capital until you know late last year, right? And but I but I have I've totally immersed myself, right? I've I've read the books, I've watched the podcast, I you know, I meet with so many VCs every single week. I've I've really built a relationship with them. And so I don't know if I if I'm qualified to give advice, but Jamie Schneiderman: Let me let me help you, Adam, for a second. When I say advice, Adam Shaw: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: I don't mean necessarily like Adam Shaw: huh. Jamie Schneiderman: here's how to be good at making investment choices or because cause Adam Shaw: Yeah, yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: these guys obviously have more, like you said, they've been doing it for longer. So I I actually am not trying Adam Shaw: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: to put I'm saying you're newer to it. You're looking at the whole dynamic with founders differently. Maybe what Adam Shaw: Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: advice would you give them to maybe rethink? what they're already doing well to do it better, based on sort of that dynamic. I'm curious about that. Does that help? Adam Shaw: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and where why I pause there is because I'm just thinking about all these investors and everyone has such a different thesis, they have a different background, they have a different thing if they're investing in, and so there's so many pieces. But I if I could generalize it, right? And maybe it sounds like a plug for us, I don't know, but in person is where people are gonna build a relationship. And I think most investors would tell you this as well. I do think there's a lot of emerging managers that are living in this random place and are doing all these zooms and people have been very successful that way, right? But it's a it's so it's it's crazy because I mean we've literally met personally with hundreds of VCs this this year and there's there's you can tell the difference when investor really cares about the found. You can tell the difference when an investor truly understands what it's like to be a founder. And look, there's incredible investors and these venture capitalists that have never been a founder. I don't want to take that away from them. But you don't fully understand until you're in their shoes, right? And I I I guess my advice would be, yeah, in person is important. Build that relationship, right? Like really understand that person. Cause it's a crazy world right now. people are literally investing at billion dollar valuations before pre-revenue, right? And I mean that's just like insane in Silicon Valley. but I mean, I honestly venture capitalists that invest in a company before it's even started or before pre-revenue, like they're incredible. I mean, it's impressive that they're able to have so much conviction. I would say I would wanna give advice for people that wanna be a part of venture capital as well. I think there's so many people that come up to us and I want to be an investor. I just, I really just think that's how you make money. And I think this and this, and I was like, well, again, everyone has their own journey, their own timing. you know, they always say, for me to be successful, I I want to be able to invest. And it's like, it I think you come into venture capital or being an investor through many different ways. But honestly, the best way is go and make money. Right? Go go and make money. I think venture capital is a great way where people are like, I'll go raise the money and then I'll deploy it. But it's like, yeah, but go and be a founder. if you really want to be an investor, go be a founder or go be an entrepreneur. Go join a company. Be, get equity in that company, which I think is so entrepreneurial. Get equity in that company if you don't want to take the whole risk and add value, right? And I think the best way to be a good investor is having a viewpoint that you understand the founder and where they're at and the struggles they're going through. Because there's so many struggles of go-to-market, and you know, as you know, I mean, what is the next customer I should be focused on? What is my moat, right? What what are the all these things? There's also a piece of it is like, getting through the mental side of my gosh, I gotta make payroll. right now, we're we're growing, founders of funders, we're growing FNF ventures and we're making some really big hires. And, I I believe that my vision has to be so big that other visions can sit inside of it. And sometimes I feel like honestly a little guilty because I don't want people to feel like I'm belittling themselves. But like it it's part of my job is like I have to make my vision so big that they never out Grow this opportunity, right? And I have to make risk and also conviction and also believe in myself and the team and what we're building to say, yes, this is the opportunity. You should leave that job and come join us, right? And and I don't think anyone can understand that fully. And maybe I'll offend some people here, but that's okay fully until you do it yourself. Jamie Schneiderman: I don't I think it's I think it's a fair I think in a lot of ways it's a fair statement, right? It is, and it's hard for people who haven't been there to understand what that what that really looks like. And that's I don't know that that's saying anything negative. I just think it's hard to to appreciate. Well, you as a new parent, it you could tell people what it's like to be a parent, but until you are one, you wouldn't you you'd have no you really wouldn't have any idea, right? So it's the same it's the same kind of Adam Shaw: It is so true. Yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: thing. Like you have to You have to experience it some of the most unique experiences ever. So okay, so this has been great. W where where are you traveling to next? Where you where are you dragging your daughter to and which part of the world? Which what are the next places? Dragging is the wrong Adam Shaw: Yeah. So I j I was just in Boston yesterday, had an incredible event there, and then we're headed to San Francisco next week. So we do an SF Tech Week, which is A16 Z puts on. And yeah, super Jamie Schneiderman: Yeah. Yeah. Adam Shaw: incredible. My wife and our baby are not coming with us. We're actually Jamie Schneiderman: Okay. Adam Shaw: we're flying my wife's sister out to hang out and everything like that, which is good because it's gonna be a really busy week. And then right after that I'll fly back to New York. And then after that we'll fly back to I'll fly to LA for LA Tech Week for just a day and a half. So yeah. Jamie Schneiderman: Getting your miles in. Getting your miles in and that's that's great. all right. So so Adam, so where where how do people get hold of you? How do they reach you, follow you? What what are the best ways to do that? Adam Shaw: Yeah, honestly, I hate social media, but it's like part of what I have had to do. we built a team, but I I've really tried to so I the only social media I'm really active on is LinkedIn. And you know, I've really tried to be thoughtful and intentional with my posts and really be very, honest and authentic about it. these are me writing it. and so yeah, find me at found you know, look up Adam Shaw, F and F, F and F or Founders and Funders. you can look up our website, Founders and Funders. and I'd love to support you. Come to our next event if you're a founder, if you're raising capital, one of my goals, again, I'm still early in my journey, but I've lived a lot of lives, right? I've, built a few different businesses. Some succeeded, some failed. I've, gotten married, have a baby, I've had brain surgery, I've I've lived a lot of lives. And one of my goals was and is if I can help support any founder on their journey and give them any type of advice or just support, right? Just cheering them on, like I I I do that. So yeah, please, please reach out to me and it's it's incredible what people are building and and super excited to continue to enjoy the journey of what we're doing. Jamie Schneiderman: I love it. And I'm sure and people would really benefit obviously from from connecting with you and seeing what funding and other opportunities you like you just see a lot of s a lot of things and a lot of people, which is great. So I think that's fantastic. Adam, thank you so much for your time. I really, really appreciate it. This was great. really enjoyed it. And so and best of luck as you continue to grow, F and F. And obviously, Yeah, all with all the travel and all the events coming up. So so best of luck with all of that, but thank you. Adam Shaw: Yeah, no, thank you so much, Jamie. Really appreciate it. Jamie Schneiderman: and to everybody else who was watching and listening, until next time. Thanks.