Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / The Audacity Formula: How To Turn Small Risks into Massive Success with Anne Marie Anderson

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The Audacity Formula: How To Turn Small Risks into Massive Success with Anne Marie Anderson · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: To be a really good leader. You need to be
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  Speaker 1: a shape shifting leader in order to weave individuality into
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  Speaker 1: a powerful group culture. And that means knowing not just
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  Speaker 1: your people, but yourself everyone.
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  Speaker 2: Before we get into this week's podcast, we got a
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  Speaker 2: that to continuously improve. So looking forward to hearing from
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  Speaker 2: you now I hover the podcast. I'm Marie Anderson. Welcome
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  Speaker 2: to the podcast.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Paul. It's great to see you.
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  Speaker 2: And so where about to you in the States right now?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in southern California, Los Angeles area, specifically in
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  Speaker 1: Manhattan Beach.
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  Speaker 2: From a beach person, ah, yes, yes, yes, I've been
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  Speaker 2: in spending summer in Los Angeles many many men moons
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: ago working at Venice Beach. It was bloody fantastic, especially
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: for a boy from Belfast.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Where are you? So you're from Belfast
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: live in Australia. So what were you doing in Venice Beach.
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  Speaker 2: No, we were traveling. So we took a year off
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  Speaker 2: for traveling around the world and we went and stayed
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  Speaker 2: in LA for three months and I was working in
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  Speaker 2: a fast food place on the boardwalk and it was
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  Speaker 2: absolutely brilliant. Yeah, there was a bunch of us and
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  Speaker 2: we had a great time in Venice Beach. So we've
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  Speaker 2: being cheesus thirty odd years ago.
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  Speaker 1: That's fun. And about thirty years ago, I, let's say
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six, I was in Belfast dancing, Yeah, exactly,
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  Speaker 1: having a wonderful time there, and Australia as well that
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  Speaker 1: I think it was the same summer. So we've been
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: missing each other around the globe. I like it. Indeed.
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  Speaker 2: Now you are a sports broadcaster, as they say in
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  Speaker 2: the good old US of A as we will know
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: as a sports commentator for ESPN, probably the biggest sports
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  Speaker 2: channel in the world, I would imagine. So tell, how
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: did you did you actually get into that? Was that
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  Speaker 2: something that was intentional from an early aage or did
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: you just kind of and up there three hoppen stunts.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think I always knew I wanted to be
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  Speaker 1: a journalist of some kind, mostly by default, right, I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: hate math. I really didn't enjoy any kind of technology,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: always things, so you get kind of narrowed down. I
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: have four older brothers, Paul and I had no choice
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: but to watch TV whatever they were watching, which was
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: always sports, And I always say that I fell into
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  Speaker 1: sports broadcasting because it was the combination of the two
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: things I loved the most. As a kid, I loved sports,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and my older brothers told me that I was a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: world class tattletale, and so I figured sports reporting perfect
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  Speaker 1: the two things I was good at as a kid.
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  Speaker 2: What's tattletale? Storyteller?
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  Speaker 1: Is it tattletale? No, it's telling on your brothers. They
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  Speaker 1: snuck out this window at this time, you know, did
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  Speaker 1: you know that they were doing this? It's reporting on
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  Speaker 1: all the things that they were doing that I probably
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  Speaker 1: shouldn't have been sharing with my parents. That's the tattletale
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  Speaker 1: and sports reporting. It's perfect, excellent.
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  Speaker 2: Now, so you have not written a book called Cultivating Audacity.
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  Speaker 2: How much of that really reflects your own personal experience
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  Speaker 2: of taking bold risks in your life and your career,
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  Speaker 2: because you don't get to the top of the tree
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  Speaker 2: without taking some bold risks.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and I don't think it came naturally to me,
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  Speaker 1: And that's part of the reason I wanted to share
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  Speaker 1: to people, share with people in Cultivating Audacity, because it
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  Speaker 1: really was my journey and taking more and more risks
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  Speaker 1: working certainly in a male dominated field. I had some
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  Speaker 1: tragedies along the way where I watched a young colleague
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  Speaker 1: pass away right before he was starting his dream job
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  Speaker 1: as a sports center anchor, and that really shook me.
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  Speaker 1: I performed CPR and him unsuccessfully. It was awful. It
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  Speaker 1: was he was six days into his dream job and
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  Speaker 1: newly married and very fit and thirty seven years old,
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  Speaker 1: and an aneurysm took it all away. At that moment,
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  Speaker 1: I decided, if you could have all those things going
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  Speaker 1: for you and have it ripped away, I was never
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  Speaker 1: ever gonna wait for anything again. And that really changed
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  Speaker 1: my perspective. I was a young woman at the time,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: twenty three years old, and I decided at that moment,
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  Speaker 1: if I didn't know how much time I was going
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  Speaker 1: to have, I was going to take bold risks and
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  Speaker 1: keep going. And if I didn't succeed the first time,
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  Speaker 1: I try again and again. And it changed my life.
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  Speaker 1: And my entire career has been built on audacity.
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  Speaker 2: That is really interesting. Actually, I had eight friends killed
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  Speaker 2: at helicopter crash. That then was the stimulation for me
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  Speaker 2: to leave the Navy and actually reflect a little bit
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  Speaker 2: on my own mortality. And I then decided that I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to do something meaningful with my life. This is
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  Speaker 2: how I ended up where I was. But often it
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  Speaker 2: does take that bit of a shock, doesn't it to
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  Speaker 2: kind of a jolt aside of just kind of going
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  Speaker 2: through the motions, you kind of realize, holy shit, you
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  Speaker 2: know life is pretty fore and precious and you've got
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  Speaker 2: to get get out there and get after it, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and if you've been privy to it, right
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  Speaker 1: that because we've all been told it, But if somebody
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  Speaker 1: has said to you or you've seen it happen all
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  Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're like, wow, it really can happen
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  Speaker 1: in a moment. And I've never forgotten. His name is Peter.
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  Speaker 1: I've thought about him all the time. I've stayed in
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  Speaker 1: contact with his family actually, and I decided I kind
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  Speaker 1: of owed it to him. He was thirty seven, And
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: it was at thirty seven years old I started to
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  Speaker 1: make even bigger risks in my life. That's when I
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  Speaker 1: decided to go all in on being in front of
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  Speaker 1: the camera instead of producing. That's when I had my
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  Speaker 1: first child. Like, at thirty seven, I considered everything beyond
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  Speaker 1: then bonus time. Mm.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's interesting. Now I want to talk about
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  Speaker 2: taking risks and the interaction with luck. Right, So, there's
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  Speaker 2: probably lots of people I've said to you over the time. Gee,
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  Speaker 2: you're lucky, You've got a great job. Right Professor Richard Wiseman,
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  Speaker 2: You've probably never heard them. He's a UK psychologist. He's
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: been called one of the top and fifty most important
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  Speaker 2: psychologists of the modern era. Right, And he studies all
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  Speaker 2: sorts of stuff around human behavior, but has done a
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  Speaker 2: series of studies on lucky people in inverted comments, right
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  Speaker 2: and unlucky people. And he actually there's a little bit
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  Speaker 2: of a story behind this, but he put an advert
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  Speaker 2: in the paper in the UK asking for lucky people
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  Speaker 2: and unlucky people to come and do a series of experiments, right,
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  Speaker 2: And because it's the UK, he got a bunch of
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  Speaker 2: lucky people and then he got a shit ton of
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  Speaker 2: unlucky people but put them through a whole series of
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  Speaker 2: experiments and actually showed that lucky people are actually have
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  Speaker 2: no more opportunities. They're just more attuned to the opportunities
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  Speaker 2: and they actually take risks, so they actually notice more
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  Speaker 2: stuff around them because I have that kind of mindset
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  Speaker 2: in the first place, and when they see an opportunity
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  Speaker 2: they jump on it. Where there's unlucky people tend to go, oh,
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  Speaker 2: that's never going to work out for me, or that's
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  Speaker 2: too risky or that's too dangerious. Right, So what's your
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  Speaker 2: kind of personal view on this, what you've noticed over time,
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  Speaker 2: and what do you think. Well, we'll just leave it
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  Speaker 2: with that for now. What's your observations around this?
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  Speaker 1: I love that. I think that's so brilliant because I'll
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  Speaker 1: expand on that and say a lot of people consider
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  Speaker 1: any kind of outcome different from the one they want
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  Speaker 1: to be failure, right, So they think, oh I failed,
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  Speaker 1: when really it's about getting experience or data. So for
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: somebody who's lucky, right, you're in this job. You know,
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  Speaker 1: if my job is lucky, well, how many times have
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  Speaker 1: I been rejected for a job? How many times have
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  Speaker 1: I failed? On air? And I use that in air
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  Speaker 1: quotes because to me, it's all just data now. But
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  Speaker 1: somebody who's unlucky, maybe they wouldn't come back around and
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  Speaker 1: try a second time after they were bad, because they
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  Speaker 1: would say, oh, I tried, and I know, yeah, luck,
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  Speaker 1: bad luck. And for somebody who considers themselves to be lucky, right,
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  Speaker 1: using that same branding, we know it's really about perseverance
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  Speaker 1: and persistence and preparation and all those things coming together
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  Speaker 1: but failure for me anyway, doesn't really exist. It's information
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  Speaker 1: to keep me driving towards or redirect me perhaps towards
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  Speaker 1: wherever I'm supposed to be.
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  Speaker 2: And I think if a young man named Thomas Edison
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  Speaker 2: had seen failure as a signal to give up, we
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have fregin electricity, right because he said he had
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  Speaker 2: tan thighs and experiments and that you know, other people
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  Speaker 2: would call them failures. That plays in quite nicely to
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  Speaker 2: you talking in the book about two lives, one we
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  Speaker 2: dream of and the one that we live. Right, And
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  Speaker 2: so we've just talked about the luck factor in inverted commas.
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  Speaker 2: What do you think what are some of the things
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  Speaker 2: that determine who gets closer to the life that we
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  Speaker 2: dream of, because there's very few people who are living
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  Speaker 2: the perfect life that we dream of. Right. And I
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: remember and all saying when I was going through my
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: military training, no battle plan ever survives first contact with
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: the enemy. Right, Oh, I love that and the enemy's life, right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Can we also call that parenting as well? Right?
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  Speaker 1: You have your plan and then some comes in and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you're like, okay, well that didn't go as I thought
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  Speaker 1: it was going. To to go. I love that. I'm
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: using that. I think what separates people is the ability
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to dive into the vision of it. This sounds really strange,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: but like everybody has their different way of going to bed,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and I believe like when I go to bed, I
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: think about the life that I want right which is
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: what I'm living now, but it's always evolving. So I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: picture myself, here's the book coming out. You mentioned I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: have a book now, so the success of that book
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and where that leads me. And I think if you're
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: able to really envision sounds simplistic, some people call it manifesting.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: But if you're envisioning kind of what your life is
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  Speaker 1: and then willing to take the action to get there,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and that's the difference, then you can get there. Because
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I talk about audacity being based in three different ways. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: there's the mindset, which is really Paul just optimism, right,
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  Speaker 1: just yeah, if you're down by twelve, I spend my
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: life in sports. If you're down by twelve at the half,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: why do you come out and play the second half?
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Because you're hoping maybe if your team gets their act
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: together and your offense starts working, maybe you'll win the game.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Maybe you won't, maybe you will, but you're optimistic that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: could happen. But if you don't come out for the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: second half, nothing's going to happen. Same way you sit
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: on your couch all day long eating chips, but and
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: optimistic as hell, nothing's going to happen. So until you
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: take that action towards the life that you want, then
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the optimism isn't going to do anything. So for me,
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  Speaker 1: I think about it as an audacious identity being the
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: consistency of the mindset, the optimism of I can do this,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I think we can do this, and the action of
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: hears how to do it. When those things are consistent,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: then you have that what I would call an audacious identity,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: which would be the life that you want or the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: way that you put it. I love it is just
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: air quotes lucky. Yeah, you so lucky.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And it's like lucky people. It's like
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: a duck on the water, right. All people see is
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the duck. They don't see all the shit that's happening underneath. Right.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: But I love that you combine that that mindset, that
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: optimism and action, right, And I think that's the difference
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: between that manifesting and then intentional action, And probably the
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: big difference between your book and The Secret. Do you
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: remember that book where you can manifest anything and you
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: just need to will it and stuff like that, Like, yes,
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  Speaker 2: that's important. It's important to have goals and dreams and
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: to visualize those things. But you can't just sit there
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and wait for the universe to drop it in your
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: bloody lap, can you.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah? No, it doesn't work that way. And the thing
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that I found in researching the book and writing the
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: book and certainly living parts of it, is that there's
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: always something in our way, right, There's always an obstacle
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: that's going to stop us or dissuade us if we're
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: not persistent enough. It's that person saying, oh, I'm unlucky there,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And it tends to be one of the same four things,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: either fear, time, money, or your inner critic. And people
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: want to avoid those things like the plague. Well I'm afraid,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I definitely don't want to feel fear. But when you
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: flip some of these things on their head and you
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: start diving into them instead of pushing them away, I
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: think that's where the magic happens. And it's the same
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: thing that you're talking about with the secret like you
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: can manifest in your head all the time, this is
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: what it's going to be. But unless you're willing to
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: get your hands dirty and get some information about what
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: works and what doesn't work, which is going to mean
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: failing sometimes and you're not going to go anywhere.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: We're going to get into all of that stuff, particularly
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: fear and overcoming that. But I just want to double
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: click on the optimism thing. I remember reading about all
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: the prisoners of war in a prison of work I'm
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: called the Hanoi Hilton, and you may be familiar with it,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: and particularly Jim stock Deal, who's a bit of a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: personal hero of mine. And this what came out of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: that from the psychologist interviewing all those guys was that
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: particularly when you're faced with adversity. So there might be
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a difference here, but when faced with adversity, having the
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: stock Deal paradox, which is where you hold two seemingly
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: opposable things in your mind at the same time. One
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: is a belief that you will prevail in the end
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: regardless of your circumstances, and at the same time you
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: got to confront the most rutual aspects of your reality.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: But if we dial that din a little bit, that
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: whole idea of realistic optimism. Right, Not everybody can be
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: a sports broadcaster in esp and not everybody can be
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: an astronaut. There's a bell curve for lots of different things.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: So how much do you are in researching the book?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Did a level of realism actually come into it when
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: people are visioning their goals? Or are you more like
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: just vision at shit and work towards it even if
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: it seems outrageous.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's an excellent question, and it's a
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: really important one. I'll tell you this. I love the garden, right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I think gardening is beautiful, and I think the world
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: needs gardeners, and I think the world will pay for
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: people to create fantastic gardens. Nobody is paying me to garden.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I kill everything. Every plant I touched dies, So that's
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: not an attainable dream for me, as much as I
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: would love to, you know, maybe be able to do that.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: So you have to come back. Have you heard the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: concept the Japanese concept ikey guy?
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I certainly have. My wife has studied Japanese psychology and
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I interviewed a brilliant guy professor can mogi on ikey
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: guy exactly right.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: So they consider and again you can westernize some of
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the concepts down to boil them down to be very simplistic.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I talk about something kind of similar because I don't
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: like it to be just one thing. But there's some
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: questions you can ask what are you good at right,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: what does the world need? What do you love to do?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And what can you be paid to do if it's
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: your career, and you know, once you kind of dialed
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: out through those things. And the way that I talk
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: about it in the book is more of a freedom
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: funnel because there's a number of things that I want
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to do. Some of them are paid and professional, right
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: my public speaking, my book. Some of them are not.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I like to travel internationally. I like to spend time
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: with my kids, introducing them to different cultures. But you
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: have to be realistic in terms of what are you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: good at first, and then what do you love to do?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I personally would love to be an astronaut, and I've
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: told my kids that a million times, and they've said,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: but you you wouldn't leave us to go to the moon.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, I would, I'm sorry, I really would.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: They call me irresponsible when they were young and everything.
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: They'd be like, you can't do that, you have little kids,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And I'd be like, it's the moon, you know, but
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I can't add or do any of the mathematical calculations
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: that you might need if you're in space. I'm not
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: sure I would pass any of the physical components. Like
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I may love it, but I'm not good at it.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And for realism, to your point, you need to figure
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: out the answers to those questions or through the freedom
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: funnel is what I would call it, with all the
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: same kinds of issues to figure out what is something
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: where you can contribute to the world, because to your
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: point out not everybody is meant for every job. But
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I do think that everybody has something in their wheelhouse
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: that they could really enjoy and give it to the
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: world if they were able to uncover it and face
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love what you're talking about in terms of,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: you know, war heroes and facing the uncomfortable truths too,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: even though you know to get to that survival.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it, you said there. I mean, I
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I've often said to my kids, you know, not everyone
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: can be an astronaut. And I said to my kids.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: People who tell you can be anything you want in
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: this world are full of shit. I think that's the
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: wrong message. I think the right message is you can
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: be the best that you can be if you work
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: your butt off and you have targets and goals, right,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: And that seems to be very aligned with your message
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: here now you that obviously then comes into fear. You
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: mentioned fear earlier on fear self doubt. So many people
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: are paralyzed by that shit, right, So what and you
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: talk about it a lot in the book. So what
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: strategies do you recommend for people who are paralyzed by fear?
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I separate fear and the inner critic, even though they're
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: closely related, as you allude to, because fear can be
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: of anything, rejection, failure, exposure, right, embarrassment, judgment, whatever it is.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I recommend people fail right away, Go fail, And I
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: know it makes people uncomfortable. Fail fast, fail often. For me,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: my first time on live television, which was not the plan,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: was in seventy million homes, seventy million, my very first
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: time on live television. Yeah, that's not good, that's really
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: not good. I was supposed to be on this little
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: regional sideline reporter thing in the middle of America, but
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: somebody was ill and I filled in for them. And
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: it turns out that it was in seventy million homes,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and then I had five of those and it was terrifying,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and I was absolutely sobbing outside the stadium, right, professional broadcaster,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: my first time on the air, in tears outside the stadium,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: crying to my husband, saying, why did I do this myself?
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I had such a nice life. Why did I want
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: to do this? And you know, he did the thing
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that we all say, right, which is what's the worst
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that can happen? People love to go to like what's
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the worst that can happen? And I'm like, oh, you
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: want to know the worst that can happen, I'll be
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: the worst that can happen. The worst that can happen
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: was that not only will I never get another job
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: on air, I can live with that, but that I'll
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: never be able to produce again because I have been
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a producer from fort six Olympic Games and heavyweight title
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: fights and big shows. I'll never get hired to produce
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: again because the people that I produce for will see
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: that I can't do their job and they'll never trust me,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: so I'll lose my career entirely. My excellence is Matt.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, Matt, I'll lose my entire career and
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: being so miserable without a career, you will have no
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: choice but to leave me because I won't be able
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to be a good parent to our children who haven't
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: even been born yet, mind you, and I will digestitute
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and alone. And Matt was like, wow, Wow, you went there,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's the worst that could happen.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: So all I tell them I can tastrovise it all
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: the way to see how absolutely ridiculous that is, and
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: then go out and do it anyway. Because I was
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: afraid of being bad on air, which I was. I
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: was afraid of being embarrassed, I was judged, I was.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I was afraid of not getting hired again. Well I
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: did get hired again, and I went out and did
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: it again, and the only thing that was better about
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the second time was that it wasn't the first time, right, and.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And doing it very cool now. And you also talk
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: about so we talked about risks and taking risks right,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: and you talk about reckless risks and risks that are
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: that are worth it. So can you kind of expand
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: on that, What do you mean that, I'd give us
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: some examples around and how can people use this to
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: sort of guide themselves?
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Sure, sure, well you consider your circumstances. I was working
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: with a client who was in business and he wanted
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: to be a realtor, right, and realtors, I think you
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: call them the same thing real estate agents.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Call them real estate agents.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Chat, yeah, real estate agents. So you were paid when
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: you sell a house, and when you don't sell a house,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: you do not get paid. And he had two young
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: children and a wife and a family to support it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So for him to just quit his job and declare
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be a realtor before he gets a
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: license or anything else would be reckless, but it could
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: be worth it if he was prepared the right way.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: And he said to me, well, I'm afraid I'm going
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: to fail the test because I haven't had time to
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: study for it. And so I asked, like, how much
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: is the test sixty dollars US? Okay, how many times
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: can you take it? Unlimited? I said, great, step one,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: go take the test and he said we I'm going
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to fail. And I said that's fine, go fail the test,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and he said on purpose. And I said, well, it
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: sounds like you're going to fail it because you're not prepared.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: So he went out, took the test, failed it and said,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: now what I said, Now, you're not afraid of failing
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: because you've already done it and survived it. So now
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: let's talk about what you need in order to pass it.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And for him, it was time to study, right. He
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: just couldn't find time to study. So some people can
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: do it all in one block. Most of us had
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: incredibly busy lives and we can't do that, and everything
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: seems urgent. So we created some space for him throughout
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: his day. One of the spaces was when his kids
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: were in the bath and he told his wife, I'll
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: help you get them into the bath. You give the
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: twins the half hour bath. I will study for the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: test during that time and I'll be back in time
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: to put them into bed, you know, read the book
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: in bed. And so he did that twice a day.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: He had two different periods, one before they got up
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: and not so he was able to create the success
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: for himself by studying. He failed it a second time,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and then he passed it on the third time, Well,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: now it's no longer a reckless risk. Now it can
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: be worth it because he has studied, he has the material,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: he's passed the test, and he has enlisted his family
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: in his success. So that for me is the difference
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: twin a risk that is reckless and work. If you
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: was single without kids, go for it, buddy, Just go
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: take the test, do whatever you need to do with
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: your obligations, a little more planning. It depends on your circumstance.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And then with failure, so you know we talk about failure,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: people either avoid it like the plague, you know, this
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: fear of failure, right, but that whole attitude you know,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: you win or you learn. How do you help to
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: shift people? Do you talk in a book about shifting
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: people from that mindset? Because so many people I know
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: who just don't do stuff because they're a free out
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: of failure. How do you help to move people from
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: that fear wrapped around failure to looking at it as
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: you know, what we talked about earlier on which I love,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: is an experiment to get yourself some data, right, to
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: learn some stuff to move you forward, like you did
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: with this real estate guy. But how do you nudge
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: people in that when they are just obsesssed about not feeling.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Well, you look at the potential outcome. I mean, look,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: if you're happy with your life, this is what i'd
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: say in if you're happy with your life the way
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: it is right now, then don't change a thing. You're
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: just going to see. The questions are though, you've come
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to me and you're talking to me about something you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: want to change. So in order to change, there's going
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: to have to be some experimentation, some risk, what is
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the worth that can happen? Catastrophizing and you know, working
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: with a client recently, she was going, oh, then this
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: is going to happen. So she got to the point
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: where she said, and then I'm going to be passed
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: out on the floor. And I'm like, okay, so you're
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: in your interview for the job and you're passed out
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: on the floor, and then what happens? And she finally said, Okay,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that's probably not going to happen. And I think it's
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: when you make your feel your fears so extreme that
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you realize that's not really going to happen. You're not
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: going to win any your first time on air and
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: you're probably not going to lose your job. So when
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: you have desensitizedlf enough to rejection, because that's an ego thing, right,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you get respected, and that's an ego thing. But like
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: when you're driving on a mountain and you see guardrails,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: you're not insulted by them, saying this road. Doesn't think
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: that I can drive on this snowy road without some
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: kind of protection or guardrail. No, You're like, Okay, that's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: a guardrail there, and if I hit the guardrail, then
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I know I need to recorrect. I need to correct myself.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: When you can teach them that failure isn't the end
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of the story. It is somebody that you can make
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: friends with, an experiment into, then they become desensitized to it.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And I know this because I had the thinnest skin
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: in the world, and I got to the point where
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I would actively seek out rejection where I and I
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: still do it to a degree. When I'm looking at
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: prospecting speaking gigs, I will go for the very biggest
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: thing possible where failure, rejection is the likely outcome, just
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to have that experience so then I can move on.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: You know how, Sometimes people will have like the one
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: big thing that they want to do, So they dance
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: around and do tryal the little things because you know,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the big thing's too scary, and what if they fail.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: My advice is, yep, will fail the big thing. Go
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: get rejected by the big thing first, so then you
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: can work on all the little things, the little steps
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: that maybe it will lead you back there, but maybe
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: it'll lead you in a different direction altogether.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And how much of that is about you mentioned the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: ego is about desensitizing the ego to failure. And I
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: see realizing that, Hey, when you feel the world doesn't
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: freaking end.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think a lot of it is. I mean,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: I think of it. You've got you know, it's back
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to when we were kids and learning about the ID,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the ego, the superrego, right, and the ID says like
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I've got this crazy idea, like let's go do this.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And you know, your ego really is supposed to be
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the referee working between You're in your superrego, So your
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: inner critic, that inner voice is really your super ego
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: that's there to keep you safe, that says, well, that's
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: too risky, you'll never do that, You're not qualified enough
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: for that. There's people that are better than you. You're
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: not ready. You'll just old voice voice, boice voice. When
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: you start separating those voices a little bit, you're able
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: to see them for what they are. I just had
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: this discussion with my twelve year old daughter on the
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: way to school this morning again, because I was like,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you know, that's not you, that thought that's telling you
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: that you can't do this. That's literally just somebody trying
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to keep you safe from failing at it. It's outside
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: of you. And she said, no, it's me. And I said, well,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: would you go to your friend Alice and be like, Alice, seriously,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: you suck at math. You're horrible. And she's said, well,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: of course I wouldn't say that. And I was like, well,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: so you're probably not saying it to yourself. It is
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: just a singular thought, one of forty five thousand that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: passed through your mind every day, seventy five percent of
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: which you're negative according to statistics. So choose a different
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: thought seems easy. But if you can't do seventh grade math,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: who cares? Maybe you won't be a mathematician. Yeah, indeed, yes,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: it starts in forty minutes. Go to the next class
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: see what happens there.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: So we call in our house, we call that inner critic,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: You're inner gremlin, right there you go so and and
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the gremlin is it's just that voice, and it's always
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: there and often trying to protect you. But it's negative,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: it's apprehensive, and it often gets in your way. But
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: here's the issue. Lots of people pay too much attention
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: to the gremlin. Right. And I'm such a big fan
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: of attention. My kind of wife first highlighted it to me.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: In Japanese psychology, they say that the most powerful thing
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: that you have in your life is the flashlight of
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: your attention, right, And as a neuroscientist, I love that
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: because whatever you pay attention to your bringing commits sales
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to it. Right. So, just by paying attention to that
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: your inner critic, or we call it your gremlin, you're
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: actually energizing it. And the whole thing is it's always
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: going to be there. And I think that the approach
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: to it is is not is this thought right or wrong?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Because then people can get you know, yes I am
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: shit blah blah blah. Is this thought helping? And if
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: it's not helpful, you shift your attention to something else right,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: you talked about some more positive So, well we talk
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: about your inner siege, right, which is the best version
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: of you? That is, is that that person who takes
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: the risks, who does all of this stuff. Right, So
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: that attention thing, I think is just hugely important. Now
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: this place that the whole fear, self doubt thing, procrastination,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: so that can also hold people back. Sometimes it's fear based,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: sometimes it's not fear based. I mean, so many people
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: just procrastinate their bloody lives away.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Have you got.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Any little tips or practical steps that people can tick
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: whenever they're procrastinating?
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, I want to go back though, to the inner
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: critic for just one second. That's not helpful. That's the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: phrase that I chose to say to my inner critic
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: because I believe in having a conversation with them. Why
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: my nineteen year old son told his inner critic, you're
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: not allowed to drive, You're not allowed to touch the
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: radio like he said, you know, I realize you're going
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to be with me forever because we've had lots of conversations,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: and so he said, you can't drive like you can
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you can sit in the passenger seat because I know
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you're going to be with me and you can say
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: everything you want, but you're not telling me where to go.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I love that to that.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So we talk about you're bringing some limousine and someone
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: always has to drive every nine and then you notice
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: your Gremlin's driving, and you go, what the hell are
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: you doing driving? You don't have a license and lastwhere
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: in danger? But you kick it into the back seat
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: and it's still going. And then because you're in a limousine,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: you just press the button.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Window goes up. I love I love the Gremlin because
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: we talk about turning your inner critic into your inner coach.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are all really similar things. But for me,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: when I and I still have it, somebody will say
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: something you know, and I literally will say, that's not helpful.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: That's it, that's not helpful. You can say whatever. I
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: don't care if it's true, if it's not true, or whatever.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: It's not helping me at all. I have friends who
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: have so many different systems, and other friend of mine
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: looks at the joint where the wall meets the ceiling.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: She's a public speaker, but still very very nervous when
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: she speaks, and so she when she gets nervous. She
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: looks at that joint where the wall and the ceiling
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: meet and just thinks, where the wall meets the ceiling
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: is a wonderful feeling.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Just a ground, attentional control.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Whatever whatever it is for procrastinating. Right, it's tough. It's
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: funny because I have here at my desk, I have
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: my little list every day of and we all have, right,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: you have.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I got rich the board right here exactly.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: There's nothing more satisfying than crossing something off the list.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: So here's the thing I dound with procressing. I'm so
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: glad you asked, because when we think of time as
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: a barrier, right, I don't have time, And that's what
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: anybody that procrastinates will say. I'll get to that as
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: soon as I finish this, but this being the urgent,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: things never end, the hamster wheel of things, whether it's
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: you know, emails and phone calls and texts, or school
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: permission slips or feeding your kids, it just never ends.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: And so unless you schedule time, it seems so easy,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: you've heard it before. To do you get things that
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: are important that are going to move you towards your
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: values and visions and goals. You can procrastinate all day long.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: The problem, of course, is how do you schedule that
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: time when everything seems urgent. Things that are urgent have
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a deadline. Things that are urgent provide a sense of satisfaction.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: You can check them off your list pretty quickly. Right.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Things that are urgent will get done eventually because they're urgent.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Things that are important get put off. So for me,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: when it came time to writing the book, I was like, great,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: I'm a full time broadcaster, a full time speaker, a
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: full time mother of three, and I've decided to write
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: a book. How's that going to work? So I did
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the old I'm going to get up super early every
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: day and spend an hour writing the book four thirty am,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: which was great. I got a lot done, and it sucked.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: It was horrible. I was exhausted by the time I
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: got to dinner time. I had no patience for the kids.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: If I had to call a game on air that night,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I was dead before I even started. So I needed
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that hour throughout my day. For me, it was fifteen
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: minute chunks because that's the most I could do. So
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I would set the alarm on my phone. Literally, my
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: alarm would go off. The kids hated the sound of
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: that alarm because I would close the door, you know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: and maybe they would say I'm hungry, But hungry is
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: an urgent, just so you know, so they would say
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I'm hungry, and I would say I bet, which they
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: really hate. By the way, if you say that, yeah
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: me too, same any of that when they don't like
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: but they can wait fifteen minutes and everything got turned
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: off and I focused on something moving me forward. So
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: for people that procrastinate, you got to give yourself a
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: tiny window, just a time.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of that, I said, just because
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: my daughter's coming to exams now. She just finished her exams. Now,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: she's been very, very good and very motivated, but there
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: was a couple of days she wasn't motivated. Me and
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: my wife almost at the same time. Just go just
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: two twenty minutes. You don't need to be motivated, just
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: two twenty minutes, right, I think that's for most people.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: It's just getting started. And it's basically you know, when
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: people when they think about it, when they have got
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: stuff that's really important to do. And if I think
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: back to my time at university, that's when your room
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: is its tidiest, right, that's when all the dishes get
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: done and all the shitty emails get done because you're
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: brilling just says, oh, I've got there's really important thing
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: to do. I don't want to do it, but I
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: need to be busy. And you do work like activities, right,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: you do bullshit stuff that is convincing your brand that
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: you're being productive. And there's a reason why you're not
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: doing this important thing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: You know what's so criminal about that? Here? I am
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: supposedly an expert in this, right, And this weekend I
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: cleaned out the filters and the washing machine and the tire.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I went through and throughout things, and the kids are like,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: what is going on? And I said, I have a
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: huge week head and they were like, help me connect
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: those two things. Mom met those two things. But I'm
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: telling you that wash my laundry room is spectacular right now.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: But I've still got this huge list of things that
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I'm doing. There is something about that anybody could fall
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: into it. So I told myself, fine, I'm giving myself
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday to do that. And I went into
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the garagroot to that and then I hit Monday and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: it's Okay, here's the thing. I still use a timer, though.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I set my timer for twenty five minutes, and that
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: last five minutes. I get up, I go take the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: dog for a minute walk, I go make myself a
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: cup of tea, whatever it is, so I know twenty
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: five minutes I have to work on this, and then
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I can take a break, do something else, and either
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: return this is important, you're saying to your daughter. Either
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: return to the same thing, or if that's too overwhelming,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: return to something else that needs to get done for
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: twenty five minutes before I return back. You don't have
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: to grind it all out at once.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, classic Palmetoro technique stuff, right, that twenty five minute blocks.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: I love that, and then taking a little break and
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: then back into it. And hey, turn your god down
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: phone off when you're doing your twenty five minutes.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, and you're fifteen minutes and everything else to
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: put on noise canceling headphones if you get other people
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: in the house with no noise, just sound, just silence
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: while you work on the children, yes, yes, or lock
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: yourself in a room away from the children and the dog.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: That'll probably get you in last trouble. So so you
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: talk about cultivating and audecis identity. I kind of love
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: the idea of that. So talk us through what ease
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: and audacious identity and how do you start to cultivate it?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Because I think that identity piece is really really key.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I think when people can get that identity I am
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: a fit person, I am an active person, I think
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: that's really really key. So talk about what is an
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: audacious identity and how can you start to cultivate it.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I love that you use the words I am, because
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I know you know that I am is
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: such an important part of it. So's audacity. At first,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: my parents used to say to me, you have the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: audacity to ask me that you know you saw audacious?
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: So I thought it was a bad word, and then
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: I looked it up and it was the willingness to
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: take bold, sometimes surprising risks, and I thought, yeah, I
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: can do that. Cultivating, of course, is growing that, because
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think we're necessarily built with that, some people
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: more than others, you know, as children, those as young
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: children we want to please, so it's not like we're
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: into risk taking as children. And then to make it
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: an identity is the consistent practice of it. So, for example,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: when I was eleven years old, my father was my
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: biggest supporter, said to me at one point, you're getting
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: a little cocky. And it was like a stab orom
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: for me. You know, Oh, my gosh, cocky. I don't
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: want to be cocky, my poor dad. Like I held
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: on to that for forty years. It was just a
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: little comment. I'm thinking, I'm writing the book, and I
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: decide one night to look up the definition of cocky,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: like forty years later, get to this earlier and it
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: says so sure of one's abilities that it annoys other people.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And I was like, wait a minute, so sure of
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: one's abilities, yeah, like when it comes to my work
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: in television, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: after all thirty five years in television, that it annoys
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: other people. Well as my teenagers would say, that's opp
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: that's other people's problems, Like my confidence is annoying somebody else.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: And I understand we think of kaky as somebody who's
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: bragging about it. But the actual definition, so then I
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: was like, wait a minute, then I'll take that. And
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: so I think for audacity and making it an identity,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: we have to shed some of the ideas we have
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: about audacity being negative. My sister in law, who's from Argentina, said,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, it's a great thing in Argentina to
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: be audacious. We call that like the best of both worlds.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: And I said, somehow, at times, audacity, at least in
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: this country. And you can tell me there got attached
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: to this kind of braggered, overly confident person who's not
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: very likable. When you shed that, it's easier to take
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: it on as your identity.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: I think culturally that there's a significant difference between the
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: US and Australia. Australia I find in you, I said,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: you know, just the best things about people in the
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: US is how supportive they are of other people, and
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: how supportive they are of people who have become successful.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great part of American culture. Over here,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: there's something called tall poppy syndrome. Have you ever heard
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: of it? Now that as soon as you stick your
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: head as a tall poppy above everybody else, somebody cuts
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: it off right well, And it is a It is
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: a well recognized phenomena in Australia, is that tall poppy syndrome.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: So people tend to kind of keep their heads started
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: for a bit? Where is it in the stage you
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: celebrate people who have gone out there and been successful
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: and are are are successful in every way?
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: You're ok?
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go you? Whereas over here right?
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Ah?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: You dickhead, pull your head in?
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And why is that though? Like when you when
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: you dig into it, why is it because? Is it
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: because you're mad at yourself for not growing to be
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: a tall poppy? You know? Is that what it is? Is
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: so you want to keep everybody the same?
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: It is such an interesting and I don't like it,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and lots of people don't like it. I really I
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: think I love that part of us culture where you
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: celebrate other people's success and see that as something that's aspirational.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I think that's a really healthy part of American culture.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Right when we're.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Talking about all of this taking risks, audacity, all of that.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: How important are support networks around there, particularly if you're
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: feeling everything.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I call it the front row. Nice are the people
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: and you have to pick your own. You have to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: cultivate and curate your own front row. I'll tell you
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: who's not in your front row, Paul. It's probably not
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: your mom. It may not be your wife, although she
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: sounds amazing, it may not be your best friend because
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of times they want you to stay safe,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: or they want your if you're supporting the family, for example,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I want things to be understand. Your front row is
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: made up of the people who are going to push
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: and challenge and pick you up if you're failing, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: encourage you along the way. But there's an accountability there,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: and you get a front row in all different areas
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: of your life. I've got a fitness front row where
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: if I don't show up to work out, they're calling
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: me saying what are you doing? Like why are you
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: not here today? But your front row, in your audacious streams,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: the first thing you have to do, and this is
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: where I think a lot of people miss out. You
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: have to tell somebody about it. Tell somebody what it
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: is that you want to do. I was in ESPN
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: ten full years working before I told anybody I wanted
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: to be on camera. That's how locked up I was
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: with my dreams. And so when you curate your front row,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: you tell them, hey, this is what I'm going to do.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Will you be in my front row? And anybody who's
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: been to one of my talks or has taken one
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: of my workshops. No, we use those terms, and when
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: they use them with each other, it becomes very powerful.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: Will you be in my front row as I embark
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: on this challenge, then you've got that support system not
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: just for the failures, but for the successes along the
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: way too, because you have to celebrate those. And sometimes
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: and I'll leave it here with this, but sometimes the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: success is in getting a rejection, is in failing at something.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Look at you, Paul. You went into it, you were afraid,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: you were failed, you went out, you did it anyway.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Good for you, and that can be the success.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Awesome. There's so much I love about your front row.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: What I particularly like about it is it's not just
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: a cheer squad, and that you said that they are
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: to push you, to challenge you, and to hold you
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: to account. I think the other thing I loved about
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: it is the social evidence piece, right about actually telling
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: people that you're going to do it, then you're much
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: more likely to go and do it right once you've
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: actually got it out there and it's out in the world.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: And I think the last thing is about that celebrating success.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I can't remember who the neuroscientist was but showed that
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: and that when you achieve something you should actually celebrate
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: it for about twelve seconds ten to twelve seconds, which
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: then locks it in to the part of the brain
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I think the basal ganglia where it starts to then
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: drive other behaviors. So I think all together that front
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: rows and celebrating success social evidence, post challenge accountability is
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: freaking awesome. It's very cool concept. And I love the
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: idea of your front row.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. It's a fun one. And I actually
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: have my front row that cheered me on through writing
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the book and everything. They're all coming over Sunday by
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: coming to me outtown and I had someone coming in
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: to teach us a self defense class. It's about six
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: of us because I thought, okay, you and what I
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: said to them was, you've been so strong for me
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: this year and pushing me that I wanted to give
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: you a gift of all of us being strong physically
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: together and take self defense. The book's not out. I
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: don't know how it's going to be received and this
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and that yet, but the success was in doing it
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: and then celebrating that with my front row, because it
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't about the outcome. It was about the action.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Ah. I love that, not an idea because when I
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: talk to athletes, so I'm the mindset coach for Australia
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: karate athletes, who these guys are trying to get to
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: the Olympic Games. When I talk to them, what consistently
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: comes up that destroys performance is focus on the outcome.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Focusing on the win, right, because it just adds another
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: layer of stress. And some light bulb moments were going
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: off and I'm like, you got to focus on the process,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: do the work and then you take the rest as
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: it comes. The outcome will be what it will be.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: You need to focus on the process. And it's al
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: as like you're of a similar mindset.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that because the celebrat comes in the
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: work that they did for me. That's the part I'd
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: want to celebrate. Look, how darn hard you work to
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: be able to do this and accomplish this, not to
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: win this, not to do how hard you trained. There's
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the celebration.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: And I think there is the biggest lesson for any
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: parent out there. And I learned this from Carol Dweck
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: doing a four our workshop and I know you'll know
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: who she is. But praising effort never pre as outcome,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: always pre as effort, because effort is there if they
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: put the effort in. Obviously, whether they win or lose,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: it's about the effort, which then cultivates that growth mindset
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: and people yep.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Yep exactly. And I have one more thing with parents
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: who are so invested in their kids' sports and they
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: want to be able to say, great job, honey, you
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: did this after the game. We're we decided a long
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: time ago the only thing we were going to say
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: to our children after a game, and we've stuck to
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: it for decades. Are you hungry? Are you hungry? The
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: answer is always yes. My son was just in the
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: state championship. It was four overtimes there. They ended up
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: losing in the fourth overtime sudden death. He's the goalie finishes,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: comes over to me and I said, buddy, are you hungry?
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, I am, And he had a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: big smile on his face because he was like, at
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: least in the car ride home, I'm not going to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: have to relive game. And they know they know that
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: the outcome isn't the point at all, but by staying
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: totally neutral you could win. In fact, my other summer
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: they won the championship. I went on the floor with
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: everybody else celebrating. I hugged him and I said, are
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: you hungry? And he laughed at me and he said,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: yeah I am, because we just they just know it's you,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: it's your journey, and we're just here cheering you on
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and feeding you the whole way. It's worked so beautifully
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: for my family because it's never about the outcome.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's hugely important, particularly for parents. So for
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: your career, we need to wind up. There's a couple
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: questions I want to ask you right so, and you
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: can take these in any order. One is, for your career,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: what was the most audacious career move or maybe maybe
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: tell you the one that came off and the one
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: that didn't, if you can think about that. And then
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: I just want to pick your brain about you know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: commenting on sport, on high level sport for so many years,
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: what were there any standard lessons from either individuals that
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: you watched or interviewed in terms of what to do
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: and what not to do, Like there's anything really stick
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: in your mind. I'm sure there's so many of them,
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: but what really pops your mind. So take those last
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: two questions in any order perfect.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I'll start with the second one, that's all what we
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: always learn in journalism, and then double barreu of question.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: You take the last one first. So what I learned, Yes,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: So what I learned from watching and being in the
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: boardrooms and locker rooms of the most elite coaches in
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: American sports is that to be a really good leader,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: you need to be a shape shifting leader in order
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: to weave individuality into a powerful group culture. And that
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: means knowing not just your people but yourself. What are
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: your philosophies, how do you like to receive feedback, who
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: is in your front row professionally, who's going to have
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: your system still in place when you're not around. I
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: think being a shape shifting leader in terms of training,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: in terms of working as a teammate, has been one
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: of the things that's really struck me. In the most
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: successful teams, lots of flexibility. As for a career move
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: that worked, it was very clear for me the first
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: time I really got my self kind of lit up
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: about audacity. I was living in Bristol, Connecticut, very snowy place.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: The snowiest winter in like one hundred years in nineteen
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: ninety four, and I'm shoving myself out. And I took
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: a trip to southern California to visit my brother in February.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: And I arrived in southern California and watched everybody playing
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: beach volleyball, and I thought, what am I doing?
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: What am I doing? And I went back at ESPN's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: headquarters and went to my boss and said, hey, I
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: want to be LA Bureau producer. And he said, well,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: we already have an LA Bureau producer. And I said,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: I know. That's what makes this conversation so awkward, you know,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and said, I tell you what you know. I didn't
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: want to take away the LA producer's job. I wanted
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: to add another one. And he said, well, I tell
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: you what, give me two more years and we'll see
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: how it goes. And if by then you haven't become
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: LA Bureau producer, then you can quit and move on.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: And what will you have really lost? And I thought, well,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: two years in my twenties. So I gave him my notice.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: He called me impatient. I said, yes, you're right, I'm impatient.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: Gave him my notice for how much time I needed,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: and I left and I moved cross country, and they
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: called me crazy. I mean, it was a fantastic job.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: When I arrived five days later in southern California not
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: knowing what I was going to do. I knew I
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to shovel snow, but I didn't know what
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: I was going to do. And this, by the way,
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: ties back to reckless versus worth it because I was
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: only worried about myself. I didn't have a family that
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: so that's what I made this worth it for me.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: It would have been terribly reckless if I did it
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: later in my life. When I arrived back, ESPN hired
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: me back to do a few things. At the end
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: of the year. I had doubled my ESPN salary by
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: making that move, and and I was playing beach volleyball
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: with my pager on the net. And I learned then
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: that by making a move that was not motivated by money,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: it was motivated by my life. Because people always want
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: to talk about their job, and I say, your job
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: is only a part of your life. What do you
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: want your days and nights to look like? When I
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: started thinking about my life and what I wanted it
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to look like my job got better, my salary doubled.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: I was more fit because I was playing beach volleyball
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: a year round, and I was a happier person. And
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: that's when I really learned that the two lives, the
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: one you're living and the one you wish you were living,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: they're possible if you're able to filter out everything else
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: that doesn't interfere with that one goal.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: That is freaking awesome. I just thought as you were
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: talking there, two things just popped into my head as
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: this this subtitle of your book, right, cultivating audacity subtitle
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: number one. If you're not living on the edge of
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: the envelope, you're taking up too much room, right, And
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: subtitle number two, which will probably be the subtitle of
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: my next book, Cultivating Audacity, subtitle number two. Because no
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: one's coming to sort your shit out.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Oh I love it. I love it, and I love
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: that that will be your book because nobody is coming
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: to save you.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: No, that's right. You're miserable. I mean, if you're not
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: happy with your life, what does that feel like to
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: everybody around you? And what are you doing? What are
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: you doing if you're you're not enjoying I understand not
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: everybody has the same gifts in the same situation. So
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: it's just about improving whatever situation you're in in a
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: way that lets you be more open and contributing to
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the world, because that's what you're supposed to be doing, is.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Contributing joy somehow, absolutely one hundred percent. And I often said,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: when I particularly I hear people compleatan, I go to
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: myself that scientists reckon that your chances have ever been
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: born are about one in four hundred trillion. Start start
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: bloody acting like it, right wow, And if you want
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: to start acting like it, get this book Cultivating Audacity
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: by Anne Marie Anderson. Now I believe it's not yet.
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: I'm resent is it on pre order on Amazon.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: It's not pre order at Amazon. It's available January first,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. But you can pre order it now
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: and just start learning a little bit about audacity and
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram and such where I'm getting a
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: little previous.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: And i'd actually this may be out around the exact time,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: so it may actually be on order depending on the
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: release date of this. So other than Cultivating Audacity getting
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: it on Amazon, where else can people go? Website if
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: they want to book you for speaking, Instagram, any of
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: the socials, just let us know.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you. My website is Annmrie Anderson dot com, a
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: n n E and you can find me also on
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Instagram and Marie Anderson TV or Cultivating Audacity on Instagram,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Facebook all the same things as well, and I'd love
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: to hear from you. I'm pretty good about responding to people.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I love getting people lit up about their lives and
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: cultivating audacity I give real systems, real steps to get
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: you there. It's not just sitting back and dreaming about
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: what you want your life to look like. It's how
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: to get from here to there. Yeah.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: I love it, absolutely love it, and many many people
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: need to read that book. I'm ready. Thank you for
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: your time and your expertise and for actually taking all
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: of that expertise in your career and putting it into
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: one manual for life people can use to get to
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: where they want to be.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me on a fascinating discussion.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I really enjoyed talking with people.