Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Forget Motivation and Do THIS for Consistent Workouts and Fat Loss (Jenn Trepeck) | Ep 337

Transcript

Forget Motivation and Do THIS for Consistent Workouts and Fat Loss (Jenn Trepeck) | Ep 337 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: I just need to get motivated to go to the gym, to improve my nutrition, to start walking more, etc.
• 0:08
  Philip Pape: Sound familiar.
• 0:09
  Philip Pape: If you just found the right inspiration, the perfect program or enough willpower, you'd finally stick to your fitness routine.
• 0:16
  Philip Pape: But what if I told you that waiting for motivation is exactly what's keeping you stuck in cycles of starting and stopping, all or nothing thinking and blaming yourself when things don't work out.
• 0:27
  Philip Pape: Today, my guest reveals why motivation is not just unreliable it's actually working against you.
• 0:33
  Philip Pape: You'll discover the reason most people fail their goals, the powerful alternative to motivation that actually drives long-term success, and how to build systems that work with your life instead of against it, whether you feel motivated or not.
• 0:52
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 0:58
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we're going to challenge one of the most deeply held beliefs in the health and fitness world that you just need to get motivated to succeed.
• 1:08
  Philip Pape: We hear it all the time.
• 1:09
  Philip Pape: I'm just waiting to get motivated.
• 1:10
  Philip Pape: I need motivation, and my guest today is Jen Trebek, an optimal health coach and host of the Salad with a Side of Fries podcast.
• 1:18
  Philip Pape: Please go, give that a follow.
• 1:20
  Philip Pape: Jen helps people build sustainable habits without extremes, and she's going to challenge everything you think you know about what it takes to live your healthiest, happiest life Today.
• 1:30
  Philip Pape: You're going to learn why motivation is a myth, what really drives sustainable behavior change, and how to build momentum without relying on willpower or waiting for just the right time If you're feeling like something's wrong with you.
• 1:42
  Philip Pape: When you're not motivated, stick around.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: Get a fresh jolt of energy, maybe some motivation though that's ironic to get you on the right path for you.
• 1:49
  Philip Pape: Jen, welcome to the show.
• 1:51
  Jenn Trepeck: Thank you so much.
• 1:51
  Jenn Trepeck: First of all, I hope I live up to everything you just shared, but I love it.
• 1:56
  Philip Pape: I love the irony of like you're going to leave this motivated, but we're going to tell you why that's not the thing.
• 2:05
  Philip Pape: Which is great, because then people are like what does this all mean?
• 2:07
  Philip Pape: Because we're going to define what motivation is and why people fail so frequently.
• 2:10
  Philip Pape: And look, you and I have been through it.
• 2:11
  Philip Pape: I'm sure both of our stories are just full of times when we said this and we hear it from listeners and clients.
• 2:16
  Philip Pape: But let's just start at the beginning and examine what happens when someone is saying, as an excuse or as their reason, I just need to get motivated, right, whether it's nutrition, training, lifestyle, all the things.
• 2:30
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, I hear it all the time and sometimes what it sounds like is I know what to do, I'm just not doing it Right, or sometimes it's I'm waiting to want to do it, I'm supposed to want to do this before I.
• 2:46
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, whatever it is, get off the couch to go walk or lift or whatever.
• 2:51
  Jenn Trepeck: And it's such BS Like we've been taught that that comes first, and so we're all sitting around waiting for lightning to strike first, and so we're all sitting around waiting for lightning to strike, and it feels like lightning, you know, because we have this expectation that that's what's going to get us up off the couch.
• 3:13
  Jenn Trepeck: The truth is it's not, and that's why we feel like something's wrong with us, because we've been told that this is what we're supposed to feel right, that this is what we need to get going, and we don't feel that way and we think we're broken.
• 3:29
  Jenn Trepeck: So, fundamentally, you are not broken.
• 3:33
  Jenn Trepeck: There is nothing wrong with you.
• 3:35
  Jenn Trepeck: It's that we've been fed a line that motivation is what we need, and it's not.
• 3:43
  Jenn Trepeck: I call it a different M word.
• 3:45
  Jenn Trepeck: Okay, you're going to tease us on there You're going to deliver
• 3:51
  Lisa: the goods right now.
• 3:52
  Jenn Trepeck: Should we do it now?
• 3:52
  Lisa: Should we wait.
• 3:53
  Lisa: No, we can do it now, Because you know to guys listening.
• 3:56
  Philip Pape: There's a lot more to come in this episode besides just this reveal.
• 4:01
  Jenn Trepeck: So the other M word is actually momentum, because in the beginning motivation actually looks like discipline.
• 4:16
  Jenn Trepeck: So in the beginning what we need is not motivation.
• 4:21
  Jenn Trepeck: What we need is discipline.
• 4:22
  Jenn Trepeck: What we need is a commitment.
• 4:25
  Jenn Trepeck: What we need is just to put the activity or the thing in our calendar and do it, even if we don't feel like doing it.
• 4:34
  Jenn Trepeck: We do it because that's what we committed to is just taking the action right.
• 4:40
  Jenn Trepeck: And so over time, the discipline of doing something consistently allows us to develop momentum where it becomes part of what we do and by doing it consistently we experience the benefit and we can connect the benefit to the action.
• 5:07
  Jenn Trepeck: That's when we get the motivation, not before.
• 5:11
  Jenn Trepeck: So what we're actually looking for to get going is not motivation but discipline and that discipline turning into momentum.
• 5:21
  Philip Pape: Beautiful Mic drop.
• 5:22
  Philip Pape: This is great.
• 5:23
  Philip Pape: This is great.
• 5:25
  Jenn Trepeck: We could end this now, but we have so much more we could.
• 5:27
  Philip Pape: We want to dive into each, because I know there's probably questions about what we mean by commitment, by discipline.
• 5:33
  Philip Pape: What if you don't even have that first thing, et cetera.
• 5:35
  Philip Pape: One of the first times I heard this concept was actually probably from Mike Matthews, legion Athletics.
• 5:41
  Philip Pape: Poor guy, he ended his podcast because he's a millionaire now.
• 5:44
  Philip Pape: These, you know, legion athletics.
• 5:45
  Philip Pape: Or guy handed his podcast cause he's a millionaire now, but you know, uh, he, he talked about this a long time ago action leading to, uh, the result, leading to the momentum.
• 5:51
  Philip Pape: And we talk about systems and closed feedback loops here as well.
• 5:53
  Philip Pape: So I love what you're saying, that you've got to have a catalyst, and we want to distinguish that catalyst from motivation, I think, because motivation, I think people get overwhelmed with thinking like, oh my God, I have to go to the gym three days a week.
• 6:07
  Philip Pape: How am I going to keep getting motivated to do that?
• 6:10
  Philip Pape: And it's just this thought that festers.
• 6:12
  Philip Pape: It's kind of like when you procrastinate, right, and it literally takes you five minutes to clean out the garage.
• 6:17
  Philip Pape: You know when you thought it.
• 6:18
  Philip Pape: It's this huge thing.
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: So, momentum, discipline, commitment let's focus on that word, discipline, I think it gets misused.
• 6:24
  Philip Pape: Start there, maybe, define that.
• 6:26
  Jenn Trepeck: So when I use the word discipline, I mean I'm doing the things that I told myself I'm going to do.
• 6:35
  Jenn Trepeck: Way, because when that guilt and shame show up because we didn't do the things we said we were going to do right, by the way, that's when guilt and shame show up.
• 6:53
  Jenn Trepeck: We are more likely to avoid that when it is a commitment that we make to other people.
• 7:01
  Jenn Trepeck: It's why having the appointment with a trainer gets us there.
• 7:08
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, not just the money piece, but somebody else is involved in that dynamic and we don't want to let them down, or whatever.
• 7:17
  Jenn Trepeck: It is right, like we are more likely to keep the commitments that we make to other people, and so, when it's in this space of feeling challenged by motivation, this is the discipline to keep the commitments we make to ourselves.
• 7:34
  Jenn Trepeck: And then what that looks like is maybe having 10 minutes in the calendar, right.
• 7:41
  Jenn Trepeck: It looks like making sure that we set our clothes out the night before.
• 7:47
  Jenn Trepeck: It looks like eating dinner with our sneakers on, so that the walk after dinner is like well, I'm already halfway there, right.
• 7:54
  Jenn Trepeck: It looks like a lot of little things that are seemingly so small that are actually the big things yeah, I have to say, jen, you draw me in the way you speak.
• 8:05
  Philip Pape: I'm like I want to hear what's next.
• 8:08
  Philip Pape: A lot of, a lot of silence is good, it's good Cause I'm such a, I'm such a rambler, all right, and and, and I'm proud of it, I own it.
• 8:14
  Philip Pape: But anyway, a few things stuck out of me there, because the simple things.
• 8:20
  Philip Pape: As a coach, I almost feel inadequate, right, when I'm trying to give somebody such a simple piece of advice and I'm like, why hasn't this come across your mind up till now?
• 8:31
  Philip Pape: The idea of putting a reminder in your phone app that says do this.
• 8:36
  Philip Pape: Or, like you said, removing friction, removing resistance from going to the gym by prepping your gym bag the night before, right, yeah, just today or yesterday, someone in my Facebook group said should I even start lifting weights for fat loss?
• 8:50
  Philip Pape: Okay, and immediately.
• 8:51
  Philip Pape: I'll like cringe, I'm like it's a non-negotiable.
• 8:54
  Philip Pape: But hold on, let me see what she has to say.
• 8:55
  Philip Pape: And she said you know, I'm a mom, I have young toddlers.
• 8:59
  Philip Pape: I get up at seven and I'm go go, go to like 4 pm.
• 9:03
  Philip Pape: You know, I don't even think I can get to the gym.
• 9:05
  Philip Pape: And one of my questions to her was well, if this was your number one priority, how would you do it?
• 9:11
  Philip Pape: Just to get her thinking out of the box, and then you can see the wheels turning of.
• 9:16
  Philip Pape: Okay, it's a schedule issue, but then it's like still overwhelming because she's probably looking for motivation.
• 9:20
  Philip Pape: How do I get that started?
• 9:28
  Jenn Trepeck: So that's kind of what you're hitting on is like exactly, you got to take the step, but you have to find a way to make it easy for yourself to do it Exactly.
• 9:32
  Jenn Trepeck: So what it looks like is maybe three minutes, right.
• 9:34
  Jenn Trepeck: What it looks like is 10 minutes here or there.
• 9:37
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, maybe what it looks like is actually not going to the gym.
• 9:41
  Jenn Trepeck: What it looks like is not lifting weights but lifting your kids.
• 9:44
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, like make it a game with them.
• 9:53
  Jenn Trepeck: I mean, like look, I got to lift you up over my head 12 times.
• 9:55
  Jenn Trepeck: You ready, here we go Right.
• 9:55
  Jenn Trepeck: Like bend down, squat, lift them.
• 9:57
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, extend overhead, like do that three times a day.
• 10:02
  Jenn Trepeck: They're going to have a great time and you're getting your movement in.
• 10:06
  Jenn Trepeck: I think part of it is like we have this idea of what it looks like in order for it to count in air quotes, to count, you know, have you heard?
• 10:17
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm sure you have.
• 10:18
  Jenn Trepeck: You know the like, sitting is the new smoking, of course, yeah, yeah, right.
• 10:22
  Jenn Trepeck: And they say that because it's like the thing we're doing that we don't realize is slowly killing us.
• 10:26
  Jenn Trepeck: And the thing that I say to everybody is because, you know, the human body wasn't designed to sit all day.
• 10:34
  Jenn Trepeck: Okay, well, you know controversial opinion here.
• 10:39
  Jenn Trepeck: I also think it's not human to sit all day and go berserk for an hour Like actually human movement looks like a little bit all the time.
• 10:52
  Jenn Trepeck: So guess what, mom, you are a step ahead, given that you are nonstop from seven to four.
• 11:00
  Jenn Trepeck: We just have to reframe how we're looking at some of these activities.
• 11:05
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, maybe, as you're putting away the groceries, you're doing bicep curls with the laundry detergent and we get it in.
• 11:16
  Jenn Trepeck: I have a thing that I teach people called DWDS.
• 11:19
  Jenn Trepeck: I don't know if you saw this nutrition nugget in my podcast.
• 11:23
  Jenn Trepeck: So, dwds, drink water, do squats.
• 11:25
  Jenn Trepeck: So inevitably, right, we're talking in health.
• 11:30
  Jenn Trepeck: We talk about hydration.
• 11:32
  Jenn Trepeck: By the way, hydration is about more than just water, but we drink, we want to drink water, right?
• 11:36
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, drinking more water means that we're going to have to go use the restroom more, right?
• 11:42
  Jenn Trepeck: Cool, when you go to the restroom, hold on to the sink and do 10 squats.
• 11:48
  Jenn Trepeck: So, drink more water, do squats.
• 11:50
  Jenn Trepeck: Over the course of the day, you're going to get probably a few squats in, right, like it doesn't have to be going to the gym committing all out, having this insane hour where you leave exhausted, unable to do other things, until you sort of replenish that energy.
• 12:10
  Philip Pape: So that brings up another point then, jen, which I know my listeners are thinking like what if my ultimate goal is to do something and there's a chasm from here to there, and you're kind of addressing that a little bit already Is motivation a matter of degrees?
• 12:25
  Philip Pape: Is it a matter of the thing you want to do versus something someone else wants to do?
• 12:29
  Philip Pape: I guess where I'm going with that is, if the person really truly wants to, let's say, start lifting weights full on, should we shortcut that process with what you're talking about in some way, like that's the devil's advocate in me.
• 12:43
  Jenn Trepeck: You can or you can say what I really want is this Am I willing to do what it takes to get that?
• 12:52
  Jenn Trepeck: Am I willing to do that Like?
• 12:53
  Jenn Trepeck: Can I find, as you said, in that you know Facebook group?
• 12:57
  Jenn Trepeck: What if this was your number one priority?
• 13:00
  Jenn Trepeck: The challenge that I have with people is that they think that something has to be their number one priority in order for it to happen at all.
• 13:10
  Philip Pape: Yes, that is true.
• 13:11
  Jenn Trepeck: And so the piece is to me is there an alignment between our capacity and what we say we want?
• 13:23
  Jenn Trepeck: Neither one is wrong.
• 13:26
  Jenn Trepeck: We just have to make sure that those things align.
• 13:29
  Jenn Trepeck: So we might want to compete in the bodybuilding competition, and to do that requires a level of commitment.
• 13:42
  Jenn Trepeck: It requires, you know, food choices and exercise choices and time that we may or may not be able to commit to to the degree that we would need to at this moment.
• 13:57
  Jenn Trepeck: So maybe it's not the right time for that.
• 13:58
  Jenn Trepeck: Or maybe it's about going to the other people around us to say, hey, this is something that I really want and I need your help.
• 14:05
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm going to the other people around us to say, hey, this is something that I really want and I need your help.
• 14:07
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm going to need you to watch the kids.
• 14:09
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm going to need you to help after school, Like, could you make dinner three nights a week so I can go do this Right?
• 14:17
  Jenn Trepeck: We have to then set up the scenario around us to allow for that, but it comes down to that alignment between sort of what we say we want and what we're willing to do.
• 14:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Does that make sense?
• 14:33
  Philip Pape: Makes sense, I'm giving you the space to dig in, because that's a great example where you're right.
• 14:39
  Philip Pape: People might have aspirations that are pretty aggressive and a far cry from where they are today.
• 14:46
  Philip Pape: Maybe they're realistic, maybe they're not.
• 14:48
  Philip Pape: That's not for us to judge.
• 14:49
  Philip Pape: We kind of have to go through that process.
• 14:51
  Philip Pape: But that raises the question related to habit formation and behavior.
• 14:56
  Philip Pape: You already alluded to building momentum as the main thing we're trying to do here.
• 15:00
  Philip Pape: So when somebody is at the beginning of their journey and they know there's these you know they heard somebody on a podcast say there's these seven pillars or whatever of you gotta be training, you have to be walking, you have to be this, you have to be this and I see it all the time in emails are like I'm so stressed I don't know where to start, so I haven't made any progress.
• 15:17
  Philip Pape: I'm like, well, what's one thing at least that's most important to you?
• 15:20
  Philip Pape: Do you subscribe to that?
• 15:21
  Philip Pape: Like build it up approach, like start from one thing it sounds like it sounds like you do but like walk us through.
• 15:27
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
• 15:28
  Jenn Trepeck: How might that look?
• 15:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:30
  Jenn Trepeck: So there's a lot of different ways to take this, and so my brain is going in 12 directions at once.
• 15:37
  Jenn Trepeck: So, yes, and again, it comes down to aligning our expectations with what we are willing and able to do.
• 15:49
  Jenn Trepeck: So start where you can Expect what you are able to do, rather than expecting perfection or expecting what we think is required to get the result right.
• 16:07
  Jenn Trepeck: Like I mean, even think about a baby learning to walk right.
• 16:13
  Jenn Trepeck: It's not like you would say to a baby like, sit there Until you can get up and walk and ride a bike, you're going to do nothing, don't move, don't sit there, right?
• 16:23
  Jenn Trepeck: When we put it in that context, it sounds hilarious, like that's so silly, but we expect that of ourselves as adults.
• 16:31
  Jenn Trepeck: Like we expect to go from zero to a thousand by standing up, and it's like, well, hold on a minute, right, it's just.
• 16:41
  Jenn Trepeck: I think for a lot of us, it's been a long time since we've been a beginner at something or since we've learned something in that way you know what I mean or like since we haven't known what to do, and it feels like, especially in my world of nutrition, like I always say, what I teach people is the nutrition education we're all supposed to know, but no one ever taught us, and so I think we have this expectation that we're supposed to know how to do all this, that we should just have this ability without ever learning it, and it's part of what sets us up and has us feeling really frustrated and therefore doing nothing, because we feel like we have to do everything that that is so true and I'm connecting with something personal in my life where, because you talk about being a beginner and we become so skilled in certain areas and it could give you a sense of either complacency or arrogance, or, like every new thing you're going to do, you need to jump in at some level of advancement that you're not ready for.
• 17:42
  Philip Pape: I started sprinting recently and I talk about it a lot.
• 17:45
  Philip Pape: I had some guests on the show where we talked about, you know, the anabolic benefits of sprinting for lifters, blah, blah, blah, um, but it's not something I did regularly.
• 17:53
  Philip Pape: You know, I used to do a lot of cardio back in the day that I gave up eventually and move more toward, uh, you know, higher recovery, uh type training.
• 18:02
  Philip Pape: But, uh, in my mind I was like I'm just going to go out and be able to flat ground, sprint all out, and I didn't do that.
• 18:10
  Philip Pape: But people are doing that and if you do it, uh, you'll find that you're probably not going to be able to walk in the next day, you're not going to be able to do your squats, you know, and you might hate it, right?
• 18:20
  Philip Pape: So there is this idea of it's not just all or nothing, it's also the feedback loop and expanding your comfort zone and the things you talked about connecting to the action.
• 18:28
  Philip Pape: If you take an action that gives you this really painful outcome, that's also a recipe for giving up.
• 18:35
  Philip Pape: That's kind of my point, right?
• 18:37
  Philip Pape: Yeah, like with diets, you know people are like I'm going to go all in, I'm going to do a restrictive diet and just cut everything out, and then it's just as painful, miserable, suffering, whether it works or not for you, it doesn't matter, it's just like the process isn't enjoyable.
• 18:49
  Jenn Trepeck: A thousand percent.
• 18:50
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, so, like to me, what, as you're saying that, like what comes up to me is something I talk about is C versus I have consistency versus intensity.
• 18:58
  Jenn Trepeck: That's a good one, right?
• 18:59
  Jenn Trepeck: So when?
• 19:03
  Jenn Trepeck: Especially with diets, right, and I intentionally using the word diet, right, like I'm very particular about my word choices.
• 19:12
  Philip Pape: Diet, culture, diet yes, the diet yeah.
• 19:15
  Jenn Trepeck: Diet.
• 19:15
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, um, you know, the first three letters say die.
• 19:19
  Jenn Trepeck: So there's that, um.
• 19:20
  Jenn Trepeck: No, but, like when we do the things, cut out whole food groups, you know, commit to whatever it is right.
• 19:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Like that requires this insane level of intensity, right?
• 19:38
  Jenn Trepeck: Whether it's that super intense workout, right, like to your point, even on that workout, could you do that same workout the next day?
• 19:45
  Jenn Trepeck: Even on that workout?
• 19:48
  Jenn Trepeck: Could you do that same workout the next day?
• 19:49
  Jenn Trepeck: No, Because you hurt, right?
• 19:50
  Jenn Trepeck: But our expectation is that that's what's required and that's what we're supposed to do, but it's not so.
• 20:05
  Jenn Trepeck: Consistency and intensity are, like inversely correlated.
• 20:07
  Jenn Trepeck: So the more intense something is, the harder it is to be consistent with it.
• 20:10
  Jenn Trepeck: The more consistent we are with something, the less intense it's likely to be right.
• 20:18
  Jenn Trepeck: The less intense something is, the more likely we are to be consistent.
• 20:21
  Jenn Trepeck: And so really, what we know from every bit of research, from behavior change, science in fitness and nutrition and psychology and business and everything, is that consistency is what gets us progress.
• 20:40
  Jenn Trepeck: But the way we're taught, the way we're sold, fitness and nutrition in particular, is that intensity is what's required.
• 20:54
  Jenn Trepeck: So it's 100% intensity, 100% of the time is the only thing that's gonna get you the results, and I argue that that is patently wrong.
• 21:04
  Philip Pape: I wanna address that because that's really elegant.
• 21:06
  Philip Pape: It's an elegant framework or model for this, because what comes to mind at least two things that have come up recently one on the diet, or I'll say on the nutrition or eating side, whatever you want to call it, because I'm not just talking about diets is fat loss right.
• 21:22
  Philip Pape: We just did a rapid fat loss challenge in my community and it's a very, a very controlled protocol for people who are ready for it and most of them are not ready for it for two weeks.
• 21:33
  Philip Pape: For two weeks, right, exactly Right.
• 21:35
  Philip Pape: And it's always this inverse relationship of okay, yeah, I know you have that target of weight loss, but let's reverse engineer like what makes this sustainable so you can stick with it, and what does that get you at the end of the day?
• 21:47
  Philip Pape: And of course, the longevity of it is dependent on, like you said, how easy it is and how low the intensity is, but then the result is going to depend on the time of those two factors coming together, right?
• 21:58
  Philip Pape: So from a fat loss perspective, it's, it's, a great example.
• 22:00
  Philip Pape: The other one is someone was I was probably Lyle McDonald, cause he, he, he loves to just curse at all the other people in the industry.
• 22:08
  Philip Pape: I love him.
• 22:10
  Jenn Trepeck: So many do yeah.
• 22:12
  Philip Pape: He was talking about training to failure and he's like look, if the general premise of training to failure is that you had to do that to grow muscle, nobody would have muscle, because nobody trains to failure, implying that, of course, training effectively over the long term to reduce injury, to increase recovery, of course training effectively over the long term to reduce injury, to increase recovery, is it going to be some level of submaximal?
• 22:30
  Philip Pape: And that's really really important.
• 22:33
  Philip Pape: It's almost more important than the training itself, the fact that you have recoverability and longevity behind it.
• 22:37
  Philip Pape: That's what comes to mind for me, so good concept.
• 22:39
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, and I think it goes back to also what are your goals?
• 22:43
  Jenn Trepeck: Why are you doing this?
• 22:44
  Jenn Trepeck: What do you actually want to achieve?
• 22:47
  Jenn Trepeck: Because, also in these conversations, is that we get caught up in what everybody else is doing and what everybody says we're supposed to do, and then we sort of lose sight of.
• 22:57
  Jenn Trepeck: Wait a minute, I'm following the guidelines of somebody who wants to be and do things that actually have zero relevance to me.
• 23:03
  Jenn Trepeck: You know like I have clients who simply not so simply want to be able to get on the floor with their grandkids and play a game and stand up on their own right, to be 90 years old and not need help getting off the toilet, right, guess what.
• 23:25
  Jenn Trepeck: Off the toilet, right, guess what.
• 23:32
  Jenn Trepeck: You don't have to train for a fitness competition to achieve that.
• 23:33
  Jenn Trepeck: But if you listen to everybody coming at us, it'll make us think we do, you know like.
• 23:40
  Jenn Trepeck: So sometimes you know it's it's blocking out all the noise and saying you know?
• 23:47
  Jenn Trepeck: I sort of tell people it's like you got to have your Wonder Woman bangles on.
• 23:52
  Jenn Trepeck: You have to be able to hear what's coming at us or read the headline and say, based on everything I know, is that true?
• 24:06
  Jenn Trepeck: Is that true for me, how does that fit in with what I know I want and what I know works for me?
• 24:14
  Jenn Trepeck: And then, if you need to throw up the Wonder Woman bangles to deflect it?
• 24:20
  Jenn Trepeck: Because that consistency in what we know works for us is infinitely more powerful than the shiny object syndrome of something intense all the time or feeling like and this goes back to the thing of the all or nothing on off, good, bad, piece of like we're doing this thing that's super intense, expecting to do that 100% of the time, which is an inappropriate expectation, and then we can't maintain that intensity, we think something's wrong with us, we give up, we're like oh, I'm broken, I don't have the motivation, you know, taking us full circle.
• 25:00
  Philip Pape: Yeah, definitely taking us full circle, and the question of is it true?
• 25:04
  Philip Pape: For me is so core to everything here, right, personalization.
• 25:07
  Philip Pape: But also you talk about being a beginner.
• 25:09
  Philip Pape: You talked about the compounding of your habits over time.
• 25:12
  Philip Pape: Effectively, when you put it all together, it, what comes to me, is okay.
• 25:17
  Philip Pape: Where you're at right now, you've got this certain scope, this certain box that you can limit fears, and this is, in a positive sense, a box in that you don't have to worry about all these stuff outside of it for now, and the power from you taking that next step and that discipline and commitment is a very large step change in your output for a pretty small, accessible, you know, step, even if to the person next to you who's training for the bodybuilding competition, that's like far behind in their dust of their life, like it's nothing, it's not going to help them, but for you it's going to make a big difference.
• 25:48
  Philip Pape: That's what comes to mind, which, that's the empowering piece of it.
• 25:51
  Philip Pape: It's like you're not, you're not just limiting yourself here or holding yourself back.
• 25:55
  Philip Pape: You're actually doing the thing that's going to lead to consistency and massive results over time.
• 26:07
  Jenn Trepeck: And the choices we're willing to make today are different than the choices we might be willing to make in a week or a month, or six months or a year.
• 26:14
  Jenn Trepeck: So, because of this is a great example, so it reminds me before my sister's wedding in 2011,.
• 26:18
  Jenn Trepeck: I've been doing this for a very long time.
• 26:20
  Jenn Trepeck: I started coaching in 2007, like before this was a thing you know and 2011 before my sister's wedding, I coached my family and in the beginning I don't know how it came up my sister and I grew up eating ketchup on just about everything.
• 26:40
  Philip Pape: I know the type right.
• 26:42
  Jenn Trepeck: I don't know why, but like and we were also like very healthy eaters, like we would eat steamed Brussels sprouts and diplomate ketchup and like we're so happy, you know.
• 26:51
  Jenn Trepeck: So when we first started, I don't know, it came up that I was using a ketchup that was made with not high fructose corn syrup, you know, and different in actual, like tomatoes and some other things, and my sister said to me if you're going to tell me that I can't have my ketchup, I'm going to punch you in the face, right?
• 27:19
  Jenn Trepeck: Not really, but kind of right.
• 27:20
  Jenn Trepeck: She was like I have no interest and I was like cool, keep your ketchup right.
• 27:25
  Jenn Trepeck: That's your non-negoti.
• 27:26
  Jenn Trepeck: Like, cool, keep your ketchup.
• 27:27
  Philip Pape: Right, that's your non-negotiable.
• 27:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, fine, whatever, keep your ketchup.
• 27:30
  Jenn Trepeck: A couple months later she goes what's that ketchup that you use?
• 27:38
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, and I gave her the brand and she bought it.
• 27:41
  Jenn Trepeck: She was like, oh, this is good, but the choices that we're willing to make today are different than the choices that we're willing to make today, are different than the choices that we're willing to make in a couple months.
• 27:48
  Jenn Trepeck: So if right now you want to keep your Heinz, go for it Like who cares, right, we can decide to make these things deal breakers or not and recognize to your point on the box, right, that box is going to look different.
• 28:05
  Jenn Trepeck: On the box right, that box is going to look different.
• 28:09
  Jenn Trepeck: What's outside of that box is going to look different after we've made some progress.
• 28:12
  Jenn Trepeck: So I see it all the time with people's food choices right, not just with ketchup or even the things that they're willing to try, because also your taste buds adjust right, your strength changes the moves that you're willing to try we start to feel more confident.
• 28:26
  Jenn Trepeck: We maybe have a guide or a trainer or someone who's going to help us do these other things and, all of a sudden, stuff that seemed completely foreign to us six months ago is now the thing we are most excited to do.
• 28:40
  Philip Pape: Yep, yeah, 100%.
• 28:42
  Philip Pape: When you're ready, you're finally ready for it and it seems almost easy and a foregone conclusion when it finally happens I mean, that's often easy, it feels natural.
• 28:51
  Philip Pape: I think when that happens, right, like okay, you're not forcing it, you're not forcing it.
• 28:55
  Philip Pape: I want to pull a thread of something you mentioned earlier related to this whole motivation or momentum chain, when you mentioned a trainer and accountability to someone else, because the word accountability we haven't really addressed that either.
• 29:09
  Philip Pape: And there's a lot of theory in the psychology literature about external versus internal motivation.
• 29:16
  Philip Pape: There's also what is it Self?
• 29:18
  Philip Pape: What is the theory?
• 29:19
  Philip Pape: Is it self, not self-motivation, self-something, I forget what?
• 29:24
  Philip Pape: it is, but it involves like having the knowledge, having the efficacy and having the relatedness.
• 29:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 29:30
  Philip Pape: Right, you know what I'm talking about.
• 29:31
  Philip Pape: So there's so many.
• 29:32
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm with you.
• 29:33
  Philip Pape: I'm with you, okay.
• 29:34
  Jenn Trepeck: So in which case?
• 29:35
  Philip Pape: oh, we haven't even gotten to that level of nerdiness.
• 29:40
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, cause you have a finance background right, like a kind of analytical background.
• 29:44
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, like business and marketing.
• 29:46
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, but Okay.
• 29:47
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 29:47
  Philip Pape: So what strikes me is like, even though we're not, we shouldn't wait for motivation.
• 29:53
  Philip Pape: Is seeking out some sort of accountability or push, whether it's external or internal, still a valid step as far as the commitment and discipline goes?
• 30:03
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, To me that's the hack of discipline.
• 30:07
  Philip Pape: Cool Right, it's the hack of discipline to make discipline even easier.
• 30:10
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, right, how do we create discipline?
• 30:12
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, accountability is a tool for that.
• 30:15
  Jenn Trepeck: There's a piece of accountability right with that personal trainer.
• 30:20
  Jenn Trepeck: There's a piece of accountability that also happens with the gamification of you know ticking off how many days in a row, you know there's accountability of meeting the friend to go for the walk.
• 30:37
  Jenn Trepeck: I also think, like in my space on the nutrition side, a lot of people think accountability is the food police and I'm like sorry, no, you know, I am not the food police.
• 30:47
  Jenn Trepeck: And I'm like sorry, no, I am not the food police.
• 30:49
  Jenn Trepeck: What I am is the accountability that sometimes that voice in your mind, and more often than not I'm not the food police, I'm the cheerleader pointing out everything you did do, because your mind goes to everything you didn't do, right?
• 31:08
  Jenn Trepeck: So is the accountability checking off the days in your calendar?
• 31:14
  Jenn Trepeck: Is the accountability saying did I do something to move my body today, and that counts, whether it's the 10 squats when I went to pee or a super intense training session?
• 31:27
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, like, all of those things get to be part of you know, checking off that accountability and knowing yourself, I think is the key to the accountability that actually works, to the accountability that actually works, because if you feel like you're not going to keep that for yourself, right that we know we need the external, and then where is that line for you?
• 31:59
  Jenn Trepeck: Is it better that it's the friend you're meeting at the gym or the one that you're making social plans with, and part of those social plans is, you know, a walk or a fitness class or something?
• 32:08
  Jenn Trepeck: Or is it that I actually need the accountability where, if I don't report into you, I need a consequence?
• 32:17
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, like there's a self awareness piece in that, and the other side that I think is really important for everyone to recognize here is that the accountability just like the things that we're willing to do, tomorrow might be different than today the accountability that works for us today.
• 32:34
  Philip Pape: Can change.
• 32:35
  Jenn Trepeck: Exactly, and it doesn't mean we're broken.
• 32:38
  Jenn Trepeck: It doesn't mean there's something wrong with us.
• 32:40
  Jenn Trepeck: It means that we just need a bunch of different frameworks or frames or types of accountability.
• 32:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, no, I love that because the method you know, I always talk about principles versus method and the principle here is a solid foundation and there are a thousand methods and, like you said, the method you enjoy or can use will change and also, I think, people's understanding of the method, uh, and how it changes.
• 33:10
  Philip Pape: What comes to mind, for example, is people who hate quote, unquote hate tracking food, and it's because they've used my fitness file.
• 33:16
  Philip Pape: And then they try this other app that's way easier and more efficient, and they're like, well, now I like tracking food.
• 33:20
  Philip Pape: Okay, well, the problem wasn't the tracking, it was a method of little things like that, right.
• 33:25
  Philip Pape: And then you talk about gamification.
• 33:26
  Philip Pape: So then I was like, oh, that's a good trigger for me.
• 33:28
  Philip Pape: I love gamification, um, and habit streaks and challenges and stuff, and that's super motivating and I don't see anything wrong with like coming back to that on a regular basis.
• 33:36
  Philip Pape: If that's the thing, that's the thing that works for you.
• 33:39
  Jenn Trepeck: And sorry, like I think there's a piece of that to tie together between the consistency and the intensity, right?
• 33:45
  Jenn Trepeck: So when we're going to do something more intense that gamification or whatever that streak because in my head I don't know why, but in my head when we say gamification I'm thinking of streaks we just want to make sure that the streak that we're looking for matches the intensity.
• 34:01
  Jenn Trepeck: Streak that we're looking for matches the intensity.
• 34:04
  Jenn Trepeck: So if it's more intense, we're we want to plan on a shorter streak to the win, right, and then we can do another, less intense, for a longer period of time, right.
• 34:19
  Jenn Trepeck: Those pieces are also working together and fitting in.
• 34:23
  Philip Pape: A hundred percent and the streaks can be evolving into new streaks.
• 34:27
  Philip Pape: As you go right, they become harder or higher, intense, and streaks, or whatever Is there.
• 34:31
  Philip Pape: I think you already answered this question.
• 34:33
  Philip Pape: You got ahead of this question already.
• 34:34
  Philip Pape: I was going to ask if the tracking or the, the method of self-accountability can become obsessive, and but I think you got ahead of that by saying, like, you have to have the self-awareness of whether it's working for you and then evaluate it.
• 34:48
  Philip Pape: Where I see people fall short sometimes is they give up too quickly on something and they don't give it enough time.
• 34:56
  Philip Pape: Like what's your advice for really feeling out a method long enough so that it works?
• 35:03
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah, I think there's a piece of this where my recommendation is actually work with someone, because so, especially in my space and especially with my clients, like I work with a lot of people who have a history of disordered behavior or eating disorders or, you know, like a lot of, especially as we think about food tracking, like a very tumultuous relationship with food and food tracking and all of these things, and part of it is a perspective shift.
• 35:33
  Jenn Trepeck: Part of it is what you were saying about.
• 35:37
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, what method are we using to track this information or to do the tracking?
• 35:43
  Jenn Trepeck: And one of the things that I see most often is that it wasn't tracking that made someone feel obsessive.
• 35:53
  Jenn Trepeck: It was actually the expectation to track and then doing it in their head, not on paper or not with a tool, doing it in their head, not on paper or not with a tool.
• 36:10
  Jenn Trepeck: When we start to feel obsessive, it's because we're trying to keep it all in our heads and so it becomes this constant running, you know, hamster wheel of expectation, disappointment.
• 36:24
  Jenn Trepeck: But it's running through every single time.
• 36:26
  Jenn Trepeck: What did I eat this morning?
• 36:27
  Jenn Trepeck: How much did I have?
• 36:28
  Jenn Trepeck: What am I eating for lunch?
• 36:30
  Jenn Trepeck: What did I eat for lunch?
• 36:31
  Jenn Trepeck: When am I eating next?
• 36:32
  Jenn Trepeck: How much am I having?
• 36:33
  Jenn Trepeck: What am I allowed to have?
• 36:34
  Jenn Trepeck: Did I eat this already?
• 36:35
  Jenn Trepeck: Is this a good thing?
• 36:36
  Jenn Trepeck: Is this a bad thing?
• 36:37
  Jenn Trepeck: Should I be eating this now Because I'm going to bed?
• 36:40
  Jenn Trepeck: The more we're trying to keep in our head, the more overwhelming it becomes.
• 36:45
  Jenn Trepeck: Keep in our head the more overwhelming it becomes, the more obsessive we feel like we are when it gets out of your head and onto paper.
• 36:57
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, I see it over and over with clients.
• 36:58
  Jenn Trepeck: When they stop tracking in their head and they put it on a piece of paper, they go whoa, I have a lot of mental capacity.
• 37:07
  Jenn Trepeck: Imagine all of the things that you could do in this world with all of that mental capacity freed up, where, when you are thinking about dinner, you could look at your phone or a piece of paper and go great, this is what I'm having in seven seconds, rather than running that whole rigmarole through every time.
• 37:28
  Jenn Trepeck: You're going to drink water or have a tea, or do I want a snack?
• 37:32
  Jenn Trepeck: Do I need a snack.
• 37:33
  Jenn Trepeck: Am I right?
• 37:34
  Jenn Trepeck: Like that is what's exhausting when it comes to understanding this piece of resistance that we have to something it's sort of worth digging into.
• 37:53
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, what is it that's actually frustrating?
• 37:54
  Jenn Trepeck: What is it that we actually don't want?
• 37:55
  Jenn Trepeck: What are we trying to avoid?
• 37:56
  Jenn Trepeck: And how do we actually get to a place where we're avoiding that?
• 37:59
  Jenn Trepeck: Because I think sometimes we associate it with something that may be, you know, kind of misaligned.
• 38:11
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you make great points the mental clarity and the bandwidth, and especially those of us who are perfectionists, and there's like six types of perfectionism, where, yeah, we talked about procrastination to it, like it's all linked.
• 38:21
  Philip Pape: You know when you're trying to get to sleep and you can't get to sleep because those thoughts are running through your head, and you just get up and write it down and boom, you get the mental capacity.
• 38:28
  Philip Pape: That's a great example for my podcast and you probably do the same, like I have a notes app.
• 38:32
  Philip Pape: Every time I have an idea, which is about seven times a day, a thousand percent.
• 38:36
  Philip Pape: I'll write it down, but then I'll be able to go through and churn through and like delete, consolidate you know, no, that's next day and but it helps take tons of stress off.
• 38:49
  Philip Pape: So the fact that you're saying tracking can relieve you of stress and give you clarity and give you awareness and help you build momentum and help you close the loop.
• 38:54
  Philip Pape: It's what I say to Jen.
• 38:55
  Philip Pape: I just need people to come on here.
• 38:59
  Jenn Trepeck: I know we need to hear things.
• 39:00
  Jenn Trepeck: What's the set like?
• 39:01
  Jenn Trepeck: Seven times, seven different ways from seven different people.
• 39:03
  Jenn Trepeck: I also think it's at seven different times because what we're willing to hear, what we actually hear, right Like and especially I say it to people all the time I have people who will do my course multiple times, because when everything is new, what you hear is maybe 50% of what's there the next time, when it's not totally new, you hear something that you didn't even hear it all the first time.
• 39:30
  Jenn Trepeck: It's why listening to these episodes, even over and over, actually becomes tremendously helpful.
• 39:37
  Philip Pape: So do that, guys, right, do that guys.
• 39:39
  Philip Pape: Go back, listen to all 300-something episodes again.
• 39:42
  Jenn Trepeck: Right On different days because, by the way, the apps count the same day as the same download.
• 39:47
  Philip Pape: Oh yeah, Help the algorithm please Mix it up just every day.
• 39:50
  Philip Pape: Pick 10 to one.
• 39:51
  Philip Pape: So I was thinking of the matrix and memento and some of the best movies, and where you need to watch them at least two or three times to get the message that's so good.
• 40:01
  Philip Pape: So, all right, You're definitely hitting on my like analytical brain here.
• 40:05
  Philip Pape: Um, it's funny, I just.
• 40:06
  Philip Pape: I just took a communication style assessment.
• 40:08
  Philip Pape: You know those personality?
• 40:10
  Jenn Trepeck: assessments, which one of those, I'll do.
• 40:12
  Philip Pape: This one was through Toastmasters, so it was actually part of a project because I was developing a speech related to it.
• 40:17
  Philip Pape: What's interesting is how that evolves over time.
• 40:19
  Philip Pape: And, uh, the two strengths of mine today, as of right now, are analytical and supportive.
• 40:25
  Philip Pape: Which supportive is interesting?
• 40:26
  Philip Pape: It comes from the coaching side, but I get that energy from you as well, in that you want to help people and people can help themselves too with this if they're so empowered to do so and want to have the discipline and get the accountability and do it.
• 40:40
  Jenn Trepeck: And the reason why is because that's what changed everything for me, right?
• 40:46
  Jenn Trepeck: I believe the difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it is understanding why, right, it's not living by the shoulds.
• 40:55
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, everybody, stop shooting the bed, right, like, cause, I did every diet under the sun, right, I lived in that world on that rollercoaster of gaining and losing, and I would feel at times like I would just breathe and gain weight and I was like I do not understand, right?
• 41:13
  Jenn Trepeck: Yes, and then I remember this so, so vividly.
• 41:19
  Jenn Trepeck: So I used to work in hedge funds, which is what you were talking about before a finance background.
• 41:24
  Jenn Trepeck: So I used to work in hedge funds.
• 41:27
  Jenn Trepeck: In one of our offices there was a communal kitchen on the floor of a bunch of hedge funds and Monday mornings there was a thing of fruit and a platter of mini muffins and croissants and pastry, all the things.
• 41:44
  Jenn Trepeck: And I could go into the kitchen on a Monday morning and get water once and ignore the plate of pastries.
• 41:51
  Jenn Trepeck: The second time it was a struggle.
• 41:56
  Jenn Trepeck: And the third time I'm walking in and going what is wrong with me?
• 42:00
  Jenn Trepeck: That this croissant has a voice and it is screaming my name and I can't deal Like what is wrong with me.
• 42:14
  Jenn Trepeck: This is insane.
• 42:15
  Jenn Trepeck: It's making me feel literally insane.
• 42:16
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, and I remember it, there was one day I walked in the kitchen and I was like, oh I get why this is appealing to me right now.
• 42:25
  Jenn Trepeck: So what I actually need to do is go eat the breakfast that I brought and then see how I feel about the croissant and then, if I want the croissant, eat the croissant, but at least from then I'm eating it after having something that has nutrition and stabilizes my blood sugar.
• 42:39
  Jenn Trepeck: Lo and behold, I go back and eat the breakfast that I brought and the croissant no longer has a voice and I can walk in and out of the kitchen 20 times and it doesn't matter, right?
• 42:52
  Jenn Trepeck: So for me, learning this nutrition stuff, how our body processes food, what food does to our body biochemically all the things that are happening made every food decision go from being emotional of why do I suck, why can't I just walk in the kitchen and walk out without having an internal debate about a croissant to an intellectual one of like oh I get why that's appealing.
• 43:19
  Jenn Trepeck: This is what I got to do Onward.
• 43:21
  Jenn Trepeck: The difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it is understanding why.
• 43:27
  Philip Pape: Because if what we said was what every diet before told me of you shouldn't eat a croissant now the only thing I want is the stupid croissant yeah, yeah, you hit on a lot of good points again, because the why, when, when you first started talking about why, I did go to where you went with nutrition science, but then I also thought closing the loop with your own experimentation and feedback and giving it a shot and doing the thing also helps you understand why for you like, why is this working for you?
• 43:55
  Philip Pape: It also helps dispel tons of mythology in the industry when you realize that doing something everyone else says you shouldn't and it doesn't cause the sky to fall is very powerful.
• 44:06
  Philip Pape: Right, it's very, very powerful, and I know we fight that all the time because, unfortunately, there's so much misinformation that people are just afraid to try the thing because they feel like they're killing themselves.
• 44:16
  Philip Pape: You know, I'm going to eat seed oils or this or that or whatever.
• 44:18
  Philip Pape: They don't even know.
• 44:19
  Philip Pape: So mindfulness and intention and understanding why is important when.
• 44:23
  Philip Pape: How about, though, the counter to to that?
• 44:25
  Philip Pape: Is there a time when why doesn't matter that much because it could hold you back, and what I mean by that is some people perfectionists again wait to find out every bit of the why before they take action.
• 44:39
  Philip Pape: Where does that problem come into this?
• 44:43
  Jenn Trepeck: It's interesting because I don't necessarily experience that piece of the perfectionism with my clients.
• 44:47
  Jenn Trepeck: Okay, what I tend to see more is the perfectionism of now expecting themselves to only ever eat the low glycemic impact things and then feeling like, you know, on off, good bad failure at the birthday party when they ended up eating the birthday cake, you know.
• 45:11
  Jenn Trepeck: So I think If you're in a place of I'm doing nothing till I learn everything, then are you actually learning what's being presented?
• 45:21
  Philip Pape: Good point.
• 45:22
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah Right, good point.
• 45:23
  Jenn Trepeck: Yeah Right, like, maybe we're just sort of blocking out because if we're fully understanding what's being shared, it likely would lead to right, some sort of action to experience it and see if, even as an experiment of saying, is that the case for me?
• 45:44
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, like, is that what I have?
• 45:47
  Jenn Trepeck: You know what I experience when I do X, y or Z.
• 45:51
  Philip Pape: For sure, for sure.
• 45:54
  Lisa: Hi, my name is Lisa and I'd like to give a big shout out to my nutrition coach, philip Pate.
• 45:58
  Lisa: With his coaching I have lost 17 pounds.
• 46:00
  Lisa: He helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight, and it's very simple Longevity.
• 46:06
  Lisa: I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die.
• 46:09
  Lisa: He introduced me to this wonderful app called Macro Factor.
• 46:11
  Lisa: I got that part of my nutrition figured out.
• 46:14
  Lisa: Along with that is the movement part of my nutrition figured out.
• 46:19
  Lisa: Along with that is the movement part of nutrition.
• 46:19
  Lisa: There's a plan to it and he really helped me with that.
• 46:19
  Lisa: The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in.
• 46:22
  Lisa: So the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight.
• 46:26
  Lisa: When it's presented to you like he presents it, it makes even more sense.
• 46:30
  Lisa: And the other thing that he had was a hunker guide and that really helped me.
• 46:39
  Philip Pape: So thank you.
• 46:40
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that's that's kind of what I was getting at, because it's hard to explain the avatar that I'm thinking of, but it's more of the person who just will not take the action until they understand the why out of fear.
• 46:51
  Philip Pape: So when we think of the psychological things going on here, when someone does finally take action, then they start strong.
• 47:00
  Philip Pape: The other problem we have is people quote unquote fall off track.
• 47:03
  Philip Pape: Now, I know there's a whole aspect to that of like the fact that you have a track and the fact that we're thinking all or nothing and is there ever such a thing as failure and all that fun stuff?
• 47:11
  Philip Pape: So and then they blame themselves, because then they lack willpower, they can't stick to it.
• 47:15
  Philip Pape: So even if they've done the things you've done, there are people that will still struggle because of life, et cetera.
• 47:21
  Philip Pape: How does someone deal with that?
• 47:23
  Jenn Trepeck: So I think one of the things I say all the time is that if your plan doesn't allow for life to happen, it's not the plan for life.
• 47:32
  Jenn Trepeck: So are you following a plan that, for you, is better to be something we do for a finite period of time, not the plan to be followed ad infinitum, right?
• 47:53
  Jenn Trepeck: So the plan for life has to allow for life.
• 47:58
  Jenn Trepeck: So if your plan doesn't allow for birthdays or vacation or enjoying these things, then we got to take a step back and reassess that plan.
• 48:09
  Jenn Trepeck: Right?
• 48:10
  Jenn Trepeck: If you're living in that on off, right, I'm doing this, I'm doing nothing.
• 48:15
  Jenn Trepeck: The issue is with the track.
• 48:18
  Jenn Trepeck: You're on, not you.
• 48:21
  Philip Pape: Somebody really smart recently, in the last 40 minutes, talked about something called consistency versus intensity, and again it rears its I'll say ugly but beautiful head.
• 48:31
  Philip Pape: Um, that is exactly what you're saying.
• 48:33
  Philip Pape: It's like it, the plant is too intense if it's not allowing for those things, unless it's for two weeks and life is boring during those two weeks, right, and then that's fine, right?
• 48:41
  Jenn Trepeck: And we recognize that that's the choice that we're making, that's the trade-off and we're cool with that.
• 48:46
  Jenn Trepeck: We've made that choice intentionally, and you know part of what I'm hearing in your question too.
• 48:53
  Jenn Trepeck: With this thing of like you know falling off, a couple of things come up in my mind.
• 48:59
  Jenn Trepeck: One is what we talked about before of not just the consistency versus intensity, but this piece of our expectations of ourselves.
• 49:12
  Jenn Trepeck: Is this really what works for me?
• 49:15
  Jenn Trepeck: Is this really what works for me?
• 49:17
  Jenn Trepeck: It's not that I'm broken, it's that, you know, whatever it was right, the design is flawed, not you, yes, but it also brings up for me a bit of emotional eating and situations or things that come up that derail us that naturally right.
• 49:37
  Jenn Trepeck: Like things happen, and especially in my world, with food, you know, like I don't think, contrary to many, I don't think emotional eating.
• 49:47
  Jenn Trepeck: Is this thing to be completely avoided, a thousand percent Like?
• 49:53
  Jenn Trepeck: Name me a culture in the world that doesn't convene over food, that doesn't create community around food, that doesn't grieve over food.
• 50:02
  Jenn Trepeck: There is something really special about some of these things that have now been demonized and so it's just about saying what was my plan, Recognize where we're at and aligning those expectations too.
• 50:27
  Jenn Trepeck: So it's not falling off if what we do is what we told ourselves we were going to do.
• 50:36
  Jenn Trepeck: We do is what we told ourselves we were going to do, so different from sort of the emotional eating thing.
• 50:42
  Jenn Trepeck: I had a client who was going on vacation and she was like we're going to my brother's.
• 50:45
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm not in charge of the food, I'm not.
• 50:49
  Jenn Trepeck: You know, we're at his house, not a hotel.
• 50:50
  Jenn Trepeck: There isn't a gym, the activities, I don't even know what he has planned for us, you know.
• 50:57
  Jenn Trepeck: And the conversation that we had was well, how do you want to feel on your way home, you know?
• 51:06
  Jenn Trepeck: And she was like I want to feel proud of myself and I'm okay with a little bit of a weight gain.
• 51:14
  Jenn Trepeck: I just I want to feel like I made some healthy choices.
• 51:20
  Jenn Trepeck: I was like awesome, Okay, what needs to exist for you to be on the way home feeling proud of yourself and that you made some healthy choices?
• 51:32
  Jenn Trepeck: Okay, well, that turned into a protein-packed breakfast.
• 51:39
  Jenn Trepeck: That turned into a couple walks while they were there, Not trying to transplant everything she does at home, in the environment that is set up for everything she needs, you know, transplanted to her brothers, where everything was out of her control, you know.
• 51:59
  Jenn Trepeck: So it's our expectations of ourselves and the commitment that we make to ourselves.
• 52:04
  Jenn Trepeck: If we align the fact that what we're looking to do is X and we meet that, it is infinitely more powerful than expecting ourselves to do something and then not doing that.
• 52:19
  Jenn Trepeck: Yes, yes, that's what creates that.
• 52:23
  Jenn Trepeck: I'm off track.
• 52:24
  Jenn Trepeck: I need to get back on track Some of my least favorite words.
• 52:29
  Jenn Trepeck: Can we stop trying to get back and just keep going?
• 52:33
  Philip Pape: There you go, just keep going.
• 52:35
  Philip Pape: Yeah, the expectations are huge.
• 52:37
  Philip Pape: Um, as you were saying that, I was just like I made a little list of like three examples of my own clients.
• 52:43
  Philip Pape: Cause, just to relate to this one client, he's going to be at a camp for like three months with the crappiest food you can imagine.
• 52:49
  Philip Pape: Right Like and I just mean, you know, it's all designed for kids who have very limited palates.
• 52:54
  Philip Pape: You know sugary yogurt and chicken nuggets and all that, and.
• 52:58
  Philip Pape: But he's like, look, that's the reality of the situation.
• 53:00
  Philip Pape: So we're going to be intentional, we're going to come up with a plan and the expectations are going to be a little different than at home.
• 53:06
  Philip Pape: But it's three months so we got to come up with something.
• 53:08
  Philip Pape: So that's that's one that comes to mind.
• 53:09
  Philip Pape: Another is a client who he wanted to enjoy that barbecue and he's like I planned ahead of time to gorge myself and enjoy the barbecue.
• 53:20
  Philip Pape: You do, you bro, enjoy every second of it.
• 53:22
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and his normal, his normal calorie intake is like 2,500, 3,000.
• 53:25
  Philip Pape: And he ate like 7,000 calories.
• 53:27
  Philip Pape: And I said, how'd that feel?
• 53:29
  Philip Pape: And what happened afterward?
• 53:30
  Philip Pape: And he's like, yeah, I looked back and I did what I said I was going to do and then the next day I got back to it and that's like a good mental frame on those kinds of things.
• 53:38
  Philip Pape: And then we, you and I were talking about like peri-postmenopausal women, and that's one of the strongest demographics, I would say, where the expectations really have to be understood upfront, right, because we know, with hormones and metabolism and everything that you may not be able to be on the same timeline for fat loss, for example, as someone else.
• 53:56
  Philip Pape: And it's like that's almost the key, the magic key to unlock success for the first time in a long time, because every other time you've wanted to get that quick result or what everyone else is doing, and for you, like you said, it may take six months of just very slow.
• 54:12
  Philip Pape: I don't want to say slow and steady.
• 54:13
  Philip Pape: I mean that's fine, slow and steady, but you know very modest, reasonable, consistency.
• 54:18
  Philip Pape: And then you look back and like, cool, I did that.
• 54:20
  Philip Pape: So, yeah, thank you for you know, highlighting all these things, cause these are super important points that people can take away.
• 54:26
  Philip Pape: Let's get into practical Jen.
• 54:28
  Philip Pape: Then like, if someone's thinking I really want to go start working out and we alluded to these things, but just walk them through Step one today they're like it's Friday when I'm listening to this, when this episode comes out, which in their mind they're thinking I'm going to start Monday.
• 54:40
  Philip Pape: That's cool.
• 54:41
  Philip Pape: What do they need to do next?
• 54:44
  Jenn Trepeck: Create the plan right.
• 54:46
  Jenn Trepeck: What is your plan?
• 54:47
  Jenn Trepeck: Starting Monday, doing what?
• 54:50
  Jenn Trepeck: And create the plan designed for your busiest, most hectic, stressful day, not the ideal day that exists twice a year, full stop.
• 55:08
  Jenn Trepeck: That's it right.
• 55:12
  Jenn Trepeck: I'll add to that there's some really interesting research around specifically exercise-related behavior and in behavior change.
• 55:25
  Jenn Trepeck: There are sort of two schools of thought, right.
• 55:28
  Jenn Trepeck: There's the one side that says do it every single day, no matter what the other school of thought says.
• 55:36
  Jenn Trepeck: Figure out the pattern that you can be consistent with and do that.
• 55:41
  Jenn Trepeck: Well.
• 55:43
  Jenn Trepeck: Really interesting research when it comes to movement specifically.
• 55:48
  Jenn Trepeck: What we see is that we actually need to do it every single day in order to then eventually be able to maintain a pattern that is not daily.
• 55:59
  Jenn Trepeck: So if the objective is to implement an exercise habit, then we want to create the plan for our busiest, most hectic, most stressful day and figure out what's the thing that we can do every single day and start with that.
• 56:23
  Jenn Trepeck: If you want my recommendation, it's a 10-minute walk after you eat.
• 56:25
  Jenn Trepeck: Start with one meal a day.
• 56:28
  Jenn Trepeck: When that happens, maybe you add a second meal a day.
• 56:33
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe you decide to do that with a couple of wrist weights one day.
• 56:37
  Jenn Trepeck: Don't go crazy.
• 56:39
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe you got time to make it 15 minutes.
• 56:43
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe one day you actually have time to do it twice a day, but the plan is the 10 minutes.
• 56:53
  Jenn Trepeck: So some days we can exceed it, right, but the plan, the objective is for that most hectic, most stressful, busiest day and then build from there.
• 57:10
  Philip Pape: I love it.
• 57:10
  Philip Pape: So have a template the worst day, because it's not going to get any worse than that.
• 57:14
  Philip Pape: And then I like how you talked about every day.
• 57:16
  Philip Pape: It makes me think this is a lifestyle, this is a you know you're trying to be, you're trying to establish a new identity as an athlete, as a mobile person.
• 57:24
  Philip Pape: Honestly, that is what many people are missing.
• 57:26
  Philip Pape: Is just any movement at all right.
• 57:28
  Philip Pape: You're on your desk all day.
• 57:29
  Philip Pape: You're not walking.
• 57:30
  Philip Pape: So even if you do want to lift weights and you want to walk and you want to sprint and all that, start with what Jen's saying do something every day and then you can ramp up from there.
• 57:37
  Philip Pape: All right, I'll give you one more.
• 57:39
  Philip Pape: Okay.
• 57:40
  Jenn Trepeck: And then there was something else you said that made me think of something, and now it went out of my head, so hopefully it'll come back.
• 57:45
  Philip Pape: But so another one.
• 57:47
  Jenn Trepeck: I know story of my life If you can't do the 10 minute walk or that feels like a lot you to call 30-30-30.
• 57:54
  Jenn Trepeck: Three different exercises, 30 repetitions of each.
• 57:59
  Jenn Trepeck: You're going to choose them based on your level of mobility.
• 58:03
  Jenn Trepeck: So I have some clients who do this in a chair with like 30 arm circles, 30 side bends, 30 leg lifts.
• 58:09
  Jenn Trepeck: I have other clients where we're doing 30 squats, 30 pushups, 30 crunches.
• 58:13
  Jenn Trepeck: I created a whole bunch of different variations of this and tested them.
• 58:18
  Jenn Trepeck: They all took less than two minutes.
• 58:19
  Jenn Trepeck: You didn't have to change your clothes.
• 58:21
  Jenn Trepeck: You don't get sweaty, it doesn't matter.
• 58:22
  Jenn Trepeck: I don't know about you, but I am never more productive than in the two minutes before the next Zoom meeting or the five minutes before I need to leave the house.
• 58:36
  Jenn Trepeck: We all have those moments of like what can I get done in the three minutes?
• 58:40
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, and we're looking around, this is what you're going to do A 30, 30, 30.
• 58:44
  Jenn Trepeck: It takes less than two minutes.
• 58:47
  Jenn Trepeck: Just do it and see what happens.
• 58:50
  Jenn Trepeck: The blood flow alone is going to make you feel instantly more energized.
• 58:54
  Jenn Trepeck: And then you never know.
• 58:56
  Jenn Trepeck: But if 10 minutes feels like a lot, start with a 30, 30, 30.
• 59:00
  Philip Pape: Love it, exercise snacks.
• 59:01
  Philip Pape: Those are, those are big.
• 59:03
  Jenn Trepeck: Exactly.
• 59:04
  Philip Pape: All right, I could go on.
• 59:05
  Philip Pape: I know we're we're short on time here.
• 59:06
  Philip Pape: There's so much I didn't get to that I would love to ask you.
• 59:09
  Philip Pape: Maybe we can connect again in the future, but for now, is there anything we didn't cover that you're like?
• 59:20
  Jenn Trepeck: no, I had to cover this one, this one thing that we didn't cover related.
• 59:22
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, now I'm sitting here going.
• 59:22
  Jenn Trepeck: What was the thing that just popped into my head?
• 59:23
  Jenn Trepeck: Oh man, I'm going to think of it as soon as we press, you know.
• 59:25
  Jenn Trepeck: End recording.
• 59:25
  Philip Pape: It's okay.
• 59:26
  Philip Pape: It's okay.
• 59:26
  Philip Pape: There's so.
• 59:27
  Philip Pape: There's so much.
• 59:27
  Philip Pape: It's funny with humans.
• 59:28
  Philip Pape: I always think there's like it's the tip of the iceberg, where people hear and see from us and the icebergs in our brain that they'll just never get access to All right.
• 59:37
  Philip Pape: So, jen, this has been fantastic.
• 59:39
  Philip Pape: Absolutely love the conversation.
• 59:41
  Philip Pape: I think people will practically be able to take from this the ability to build momentum, not to get motivated, not to wait for the right time, not to be perfect or do more than the expectations allow them to do.
• 59:53
  Philip Pape: Just start where you're at and build momentum.
• 59:56
  Philip Pape: Take the commitment, the discipline and turn it into momentum.
• 59:59
  Philip Pape: I want people to be able to find you, jen.
• 1:00:01
  Philip Pape: Obviously, we've got the podcast Salad with a Side of Fries.
• 1:00:03
  Philip Pape: We'll link that in the show notes.
• 1:00:05
  Jenn Trepeck: Anywhere else, All social media.
• 1:00:07
  Jenn Trepeck: I am at Jen Trebek, j-e-n-n-t-r-e-p-e-c-k, and website is asaladwithasideoffriescom.
• 1:00:15
  Jenn Trepeck: I will tell you, hearing from you is my absolute most favorite thing, so please send a message.
• 1:00:19
  Jenn Trepeck: Oh, I know what I wanted to say.
• 1:00:23
  Jenn Trepeck: Now let's do it Because on my website there is I have a download for you called it's not what to eat, it's how to eat that you can download there, but there's another one that I sometimes offer.
• 1:00:35
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe I'll send this to you to put a link in the episode notes.
• 1:00:38
  Jenn Trepeck: That's my bullseye of change.
• 1:00:39
  Jenn Trepeck: It's a framework for behavior change Awesome.
• 1:00:42
  Jenn Trepeck: And the piece of this is what you said about this identity.
• 1:00:46
  Jenn Trepeck: We're trying to develop this new identity, and that sort of reminded me of affirmations or things that we say right, we're trying.
• 1:00:53
  Jenn Trepeck: And the piece of this that is so critical is that you know, if you're like you were saying, like we want to become this athlete, right, if saying to yourself I am an athlete creates that other voice, that's like no, you're not right.
• 1:01:09
  Jenn Trepeck: We need a different affirmation, the trick to making sure that this works right.
• 1:01:17
  Jenn Trepeck: So our subconscious mind doesn't know the difference between truism and falsehood.
• 1:01:22
  Jenn Trepeck: It's going to believe whatever we tell it, but it has to bypass the conscious mind.
• 1:01:28
  Jenn Trepeck: So if your conscious mind says, no, you're not, that affirmation will not program the subconscious mind so I am becoming athletic might be more helpful in the moment, till you start to feel like an athlete.
• 1:01:47
  Jenn Trepeck: And then it becomes I'm an athlete right, it might be.
• 1:01:53
  Jenn Trepeck: I make healthy choices.
• 1:01:54
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, that might feel like a lot right.
• 1:01:57
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe the affirmation is I make healthy choices.
• 1:01:58
  Jenn Trepeck: Well, that might feel like a lot right.
• 1:01:58
  Jenn Trepeck: Maybe the affirmation is I make healthier choices.
• 1:02:01
  Jenn Trepeck: I eat a vegetable every time I eat.
• 1:02:03
  Jenn Trepeck: Right, find the thing that actually rings true and use that and that can evolve also.
• 1:02:10
  Jenn Trepeck: But that's key to developing this new identity where, if we're trying to tell ourselves something that we're really not believing, it's not going to happen.
• 1:02:19
  Philip Pape: You got to believe yourself and believe in yourself and give yourself the right affirmation.
• 1:02:23
  Philip Pape: So great advice.
• 1:02:24
  Philip Pape: Thank you, jen.
• 1:02:25
  Philip Pape: No, not, don't apologize.
• 1:02:28
  Philip Pape: Seriously, that's good.
• 1:02:29
  Philip Pape: I hope people stuck around to hear that because otherwise they missed out Fire at the end for everybody.
• 1:02:34
  Jenn Trepeck: That's right.
• 1:02:34
  Philip Pape: That's right, fire emoji.
• 1:02:35
  Philip Pape: So we'll throw those all in the show notes.
• 1:02:38
  Philip Pape: And again, jen, it's been a pleasure.
• 1:02:40
  Philip Pape: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:02:41
  Philip Pape: Wits and Weights.
• 1:02:42
  Jenn Trepeck: Likewise.
• 1:02:42
  Jenn Trepeck: Thank you so much.