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Screens, Sleep & Our Kids: When the Phone Doesn't Go to Bed · Empowered Homes Podcast

0:23
SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome to the Empowered Homes Podcast.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: The purpose of this podcast is to grow strong families by connecting church and home and getting resources in your hands to help you win at home.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm in studio with my pal Meg.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: Hey friends.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: Meg, we got a special guest with us.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: We do, yes.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to introduce to you Lindsay Pickerell.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Lindsay is actually a longtime contributor of Empowered Homes.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: And um I was just looking actually back at your contribution since I think 2020, 2019, I think.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: 2020.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: And outside of our staff, Lindsay has contributed the most to Empowered Homes.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: So she is a very special guest and a very special part of Empowered Homes.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: And I love that, Lindsay, you the the things that you contribute, they're an overflow of your life and of your sitting before the Lord and just what he's doing in your heart and in your family.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: But today I'm so excited because we get to pick another part of your brain and we get to look and get a peek into another part of your life.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: And that is your life as a pediatric PA, which is a physician's assistant.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited to have this conversation because, you know, every home has to tackle an issue.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think now that we live in this incredibly digital world, that one issue that is probably creating a lot of tension in the home is unhealthy cell phone habits and technology habits that are affecting our children.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: They're affecting our families.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: And these are conversations that you're having on a weekly basis.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: And so you contacted me and was like, hey, I'm having these conversations all the time.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So can we talk about it?
1:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I am so excited that you had this idea.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so excited that you're here.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Empowered Homes Podcast.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: And so we're going to take a peek into just what you do on a weekly basis with families that come in for pediatric care and how that eventually comes to a conversation of healthy tech habits and all of that.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be an incredible conversation.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: But before we get started, I have one little question for you.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Because you spend your weeks telling kids and parents to make healthy choices.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Do you live by your own advice?
2:29
SPEAKER_02: For the most part, I can say I absolutely do.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: But there is one area that my family and I struggle, and it's vegetables.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Oh, vegetables.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: Can't love vegetables, but I tell every kid that comes in, eat your fruits and vegetables.
2:44
SPEAKER_02: But so we try to get creative with like smoothies and air frying some like green beans or whatever, make things creative.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: But vegetables are the struggle.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think every parent can relate to that.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: There is something that you ask of your kids or other people to do that you're not willing to do yourself.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: Do you have anybody?
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, we I don't eat vegetables.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: That's that's what I eat meat.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm a meat eater.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Like this weekend I I smoked a bunch of meat, and I was like, told Jen, my wife, I was like, I I'll take care of all the dinner.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: And uh I smoked ribs and chicken and all this stuff, and she goes, What's the side?
3:20
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, we're just eating meat.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Just meat.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Just just meat.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, protein is all the ribs, so just meat's fine, right?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And they enjoyed it.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: I think Japman ate probably six ribs by himself, and it was awesome.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's definitely a struggle in our okay.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: So no vegetables on on this side of the podcast.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I love vegetables.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: We try to hide them in stuff.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Like we'll make like a casserole and and put vegetables.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Jen does so many things and tries to hide them in, but I'm not a big vegetable person.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know I need to eat more.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: You also don't like apples, right?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Apple, I do you like any fruit?
3:55
SPEAKER_00: I do.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh blackberries will not stay long in our home.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, me and Chap fight over them.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a good time.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: Like I'll put them on the top shelf because he can't each fighting over blackberries.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, I would say one thing that that I tell my children not to do that I do is procrastinate.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's pretty bad.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So I probably need to talk to my counselor about it.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, all right.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna take a glimpse into your world.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And so let's just start with like a foundation.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, when your patients come in and you just begin a well check, or maybe they're coming in for other other things, but you know, what baseline?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you talking to these families about?
4:39
SPEAKER_02: I really do try to hit like the basics because a lot of people just don't think about those and they're very important.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: So I go through like what are they putting in their bodies?
4:50
SPEAKER_02: The fruits and the vegetables, and I remind them sometimes we have to do things that we don't like because our body needs them and it's healthy.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: So same goes for exercise.
5:01
SPEAKER_02: We've got to be um pumping our heart like it's we only get one, and it's the most important muscle in our body.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: So we've got to be exercising.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: So I see what they're doing for that.
5:10
SPEAKER_02: Hydration.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: So many kids come in with dizziness, headaches, and constipation.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: And the one fix is drinking more water.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: So make sure you have enough water.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then um it's always important to wash your hands, not touch your face.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: That's the most easiest way to get germs.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And um, I like to ask them what they do that brings them joy because they all need to have something to look forward to in life, or you get too stressed and overwhelmed.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then the final thing and our topic for today is how much sleep are they getting?
5:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, because most of them come in so tired and you could just see it in their face.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, so we talk about how much sleep do you and is it a priority in your life?
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Because it needs to be.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: So focusing on sleep.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Like what is when you have families that come in, like what makes you say we have to take sleep back?
6:07
SPEAKER_02: We have to take sleep back because it is affecting their whole body.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Um depression, anxiety, and ADHD are all at an all-time high in diabetes, and these are all affected by sleep.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And these kids, they're living in a world that is so different than any time ever before in the history of mankind.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: And it's just the amount of information they're getting and processing in a day is unnatural.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: And so if we're not getting enough rest, it affects every part of our life.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: And so what specifically are you seeing?
6:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you named a couple, but what specifically are you seeing when these kids have what you know probably is a lack of sleep, but maybe their parents don't know?
6:50
SPEAKER_01: Like what kind of physical, emotional, and mental um, you know, signatures are you seeing?
6:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: So I like to touch on each of those.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: So physically, they're getting sick more often because your immune system's weakened when you don't get enough sleep, and your blood sugar is not regulating.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: So prediabetes, like I talked about, we do some blood work and find that, yeah, this is really affecting you internally.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, emotionally, their um heart rate's just higher and they're always in this state of like low-key fight or flight.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: And so they're just like ready to act all the time, and they just can't like relax and take a deep breath.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: And then um mentally, they're not able to focus.
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, they're um they lose their ability to concentrate and they just can't focus.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: So that leads to failing grades, which some of them maybe have never experienced before.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: They feel like failures, and then they start identifying themselves as a failure, and that leads to just all out depression.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: So when it comes, I mean, we I think we all agree like our kids need sleep, but like how much sleep, like for elementary age, and then you know, I got two teenagers, and sometimes I feel like they can sleep all day.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm like, are they sleeping too much?
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, so what's like recommended for you know kids and teenagers?
8:19
SPEAKER_02: So for younger elementary kids, you want to strive for 12 hours.
8:23
SPEAKER_02: I know it seems like a lot, but it's really healthy for those like four to eight year olds to get 12 hours still.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: And then um like nine to twelve can get 10 to 11 hours, and then the teens really need like eight to ten hours.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: And if they want to sleep more, because just with homework and practice schedules and everything, like the weekends, if they do sleep in, you know, 15 hours, just let them yeah, yeah, let them catch up.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, do you so do you find that parents know how long their kids are sleeping, or they generally don't know how long they're sleeping?
8:57
SPEAKER_01: That I know they sound like I know we're gonna get further into that, but just like as a general rule.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, parents think they know how much their kids are sleeping, but when the kids actually say, like, it actually takes me two hours to fall asleep once I get in bed, the parents are like, really?
9:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so they're hearing it for the first time remote.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: This is such an important conversation because this is where phones, technology, screens, that's where those enter into the picture, right?
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And I know you're so adamant about screens off before bedtime, phones out of the bedrooms at night, you know.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: So help us understand kind of the science behind that.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: What happens to a kid's developing brain if they're scrolling, texting, gaming, face timing.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And I know that this isn't just for kids, this is probably for adults too.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, what's happening to their so the science behind screens itself um really starts with the light effect on your brain.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: So the light of the screen mimics sunlight.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: And God designed our bodies to know that when it's daytime, you're supposed to be awake and alert and active.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: And at nighttime, when the sun goes down, your body is supposed to calm down and rest, secrete the melatonin naturally and everything.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: So the phone light actually suppresses the melatonin, the internal clock, because your body thinks it's still supposed to be on and active and in go mode.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: And so these kids can't shut off.
10:24
SPEAKER_02: So I like to ask parents to have all screens off, basically like after dinner time, an hour before bed, and start the detox, the calming down phase.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: And then um, I absolutely do not want phones in the bedroom.
10:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, I just there, yes, there are good things about phones, but there's also really bad things about phones.
10:46
SPEAKER_02: And I know there's apps and everything to kind of safeguard your phones, and there's also like I shut it off, or you know, the Wi-Fi disconnects or whatever.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: I have apps for that too.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: There's back doors around those, and also just having the phone next to you is just so unhealthy.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Like we've got to stop having it on our body all the time or just having it right there.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: Like it's not supposed to be our go-to for anything.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think most kids would would argue that I hear it's like, well, I need my phone in my room for the alarm clock.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: That's like the go-to excuse.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: But and most of our listeners, Christian parents who like they have the safeguards that you mentioned, they have those things, but what are what are what are you hearing that kids are actually doing on their phones?
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Because we would we would assume like, you know, we have all the protections for them not to to do, but what what were they actually doing on their phones?
11:44
SPEAKER_02: Yep, you hit a top a hot topic for me, is like I the parents will tell me they use it as their alarm clock.
11:50
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there are so many other options to wake your kids up.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And like that's an actual alarm clock.
11:54
SPEAKER_02: Like an actual alarm clock or a knock on the door or whatever.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Alexa, you can set alarms that way, whatever.
12:01
SPEAKER_02: But do not let that be the excuse to keep your phone in the room.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, and what kids are actually doing, so yes, social media is there, they're scrolling, they're on TikTok, they're, you know, comparing their lives to other people's, which is creating envy or body shaming or whatever.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: So they're, you know, spiraling that way, or they're just talking with their friends all night through text groups.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: And one like alarmingly told me that every night she falls asleep on a FaceTime talk with multiple friends.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: And that is just such an unhealthy codependency that friendships are not supposed to have at this well, any age.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: Any age, yes.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: So it's just awareness is good to talk about in this area.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's so interesting that parents maybe just have no idea that that's even happening.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: Like they just maybe are completely trusting of the fact that they have the safeguards or there's some, you know, there's not a way to access certain things.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: And you know, and and you're not even really getting into like the really dangerous access, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_01: But but even even those ones that maybe would seem a little bit innocent, right?
13:13
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, just it's just FaceTiming with a friend, it's just talking with a friend, it's just you know, and that's the most common.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: And and so it's like even even that, even that is affecting them so greatly, you know.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just talk a little bit about, you know, do you have parents that are like, well, this that's what I do, and it's fine for me.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Like I I scroll before bed, I have to have, you know, a screen on before I can go to sleep.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: So why is that not okay for my kid?
13:40
SPEAKER_01: Why should I set a stronger boundary for them?
13:43
SPEAKER_02: So um there's a lot here.
13:45
SPEAKER_02: Um kids' brains are not fully developed as preteens and teens.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: So there's this area, the prefrontal cortex, that is very um impulse-based, and kids physically do not have the capability to put something down that is feeding them dopamine, and they just cannot combat the impulsivity of it.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, adults, you are like, okay, I really have to get up in the morning and it is past my bedtime, I need to put it down.
14:15
SPEAKER_02: You can do that.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: But kids are just like strapped in, they get addicted to things faster and stronger.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: And that's why whenever you get to the conversation where we need to pull it out, there is going to be um meltdowns or anxiety from this or pushback.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's just something that they need.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, and one thing I really like to um remind them, the kids and the parents, is that they're fighting a battle, a losing battle, honestly.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: Like the people who develop these apps and programs are like the top neuroscientists that are creating these things for the purpose of addiction.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: Like the more the kids spend on time, like the on the phone, more time on the phone, the more money they make.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: And that's you know what drives the world and evil, of course.
15:10
SPEAKER_02: And so, whenever I like them to, you know, feel like they're being preyed upon and see the root of why this is happening is like you are you are the victim here, and your parents need to help you.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Like kids cannot do this on their own.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's really interesting that you said because their brains aren't fully formed, which I think most parents understand that.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they do your kids do enough things throughout their childhood that you're like, that's not a fully formed brain.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, but what I think it was interesting that you said is they they cannot put it down.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: And so even like getting mad at them, it's like giving them no boundaries, but then getting mad at them when they're unable to do it.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Even though I get it, I mean, I get so irritated when I'm like, oh my goodness, you're on your phone again, you know.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, okay, that's I've got to reframe the way that I'm approaching that in helping, you know, explain and then like setting the boundary because it's a boundary that like our my kids just can't even see.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Like they don't even know.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah, one of the phrases we're we use, especially with my oldest, sometimes I'll I'll see him and he's been on his phone for a while and be like, hey, you've been on for a while, let's take a break.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: It's time for a break.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Go charge it, go plug it in.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's I get the oh you know, but I don't care.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's he needs to take a break.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: But so for for the parents that you know, they're probably going, oh my goodness, have I messed this up, or is is there something I've already done wrong?
16:42
SPEAKER_00: Is the damage too far?
16:43
SPEAKER_00: Like what are some warning signs that you can that parents can kind of tell, okay, they're they're they need sleep, they're on their phone, they're doing it.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are some warning signs that we can we can notice and then start to implement some changes?
16:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so what I see that are red flags in my office when the patients come is like they'll they'll have their phone, well, they'll be on their phone, of course, when I walk in the room for their visit, and I'm like, hi, I'm here to do your checkup and everything, and they don't look up or they do look up real quick and then they go back.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then when I ask them to come to the exam table, they bring their phone with them.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: Like they can't even be apart from it for five minutes.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: And then while they're up there, like the amount of times they have to impulsively like pick it up and check their screen, like in between when I'm looking at their ears and saying, Oh, and all that thing, like they're they're constantly or they just have to have it touch their body, like it's a security thing.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: And so interesting.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: So I would encourage parents to just look like are any of those red flags happening with your kid?
17:45
SPEAKER_02: Because that's a true sign of addiction.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, and not and now recognizing it and not, as we say, not like freaking out about it.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Just be like, oh, start noticing.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: It's time to be there.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay, now yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And so shifting gears just a little bit, like, you know, I I think we say all the time with Empowered Homes, like we we want to build connections with our kids, and that's part of uh, you know, raising productive adults.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Like when it comes to the phone use, um what are what what might parents be missing relationally when uh the last thing everyone does at night is disappear onto their devices?
18:26
SPEAKER_00: What are we missing um when when we just allow that to happen?
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Um time to connect with your kids before they graduate and leave the house.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, simply put, like these years go by so fast and these are important moments that we can use to guide and teach and um just connect.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Because at night kids like to unload and as they're processing their day, and like how much cooler would it be if you're there for that and not missing it, being a part of it instead of just all right, go to your bedroom because I'm gonna go and unload my own day and you know, disconnect and everything.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: But we need we need to be present.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a powerful opportunity for us and um it just happens, you know.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't think a parent is going, yeah, I d I want to just ignore my kids and do my own thing.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Like they're not thinking intentionally doing this, but then we look back and it's like how much time did we really miss?
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's an eye-opener, you know, for our listeners of going, hey, if if you're in this pattern, man, there's some changes that need to happen.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it it is like a it's it is a mindset shift of instead of having a fear of missing out on what's online or what's on Facebook or what's on TikTok or whatever it is that that you consume.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And again, this isn't we're not trying to beat anybody up.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: We all we all have this, you know.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: But it also is an addiction for kids and for adults.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: And so instead of like succumbing to the fear of missing out on what's going on there, you know, having this sort of fear of missing out of like, what are we missing within our home?
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Because it really is a powerful place.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: And we talk so much about rhythms and you know, Bobby, you already mentioned this, but but using the rhythms of the day and bedtime is such an important time, right?
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And and why is it such an important time?
20:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's so much opportunity to parent still left in our day in such a positive way, which is what this is about.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: It's like, what are we missing and how can we make it more positive for everybody?
20:38
SPEAKER_02: And so kids are gonna be processing like the good and the bad, and they might not know how to um untangle the situations they walk through, but you know, we've been through a lot more than they have.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: So we can offer our wisdom there, we can pray with them about things, we can pray over their friends who are struggling.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, we can um navigate the lies and fill it in with God's truth and teach them to go to God with these things, which are lessons they'll carry once they leave the house into adulthood and everything, because the phones can't do that for them.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Right.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned, I mean, scripture tells us all throughout, you know, to guard our hearts and our minds.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: And as parents, like our role to teach and train our kids is for for to create a a system where they can practice and and start to develop their own faith faith where they're guarding their own hearts and minds.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: We know that the enemy wants to come in and swoop in and uh and distract and and I mean he doesn't want to cuddle with our kids, he wants to destroy them.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So what safeguards, and we've already mentioned some, but what safeguards uh do you see parents that it's been effective for us to be able to guard and protect their hearts and minds?
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Um I do you touch.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: On um just the enemy and using this time to basically attack our families.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I really see that happening um because he loves to just steal and destroy families, and that's what he's after very clearly in our world.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Um and so I've been actually in First Peter this week, and 1 Peter 2.11 um says, Beloved, I urge you to abstain from the passions of the flesh which wage war on your soul.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: And I just see that so fitting.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: Like this is waging war on our souls and our kids' souls.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: And um, this is just really um time to bring yeah, awareness, call it what it is, and say there's gotta be something that changes.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's it's not too late.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: I do want to to bring that up.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Like some people might feel like uh we're stuck in this pattern and it's it's gonna be too late.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: And my answer is it's never too late.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, so let's get super practical with parents.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Phones out of the bedroom.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a new new practice.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: What where does a parent start that conversation?
23:13
SPEAKER_00: What what do you recommend um to to to navigate foresee the blow ups and all that?
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Like where do we start?
23:22
SPEAKER_02: So the first place I would recommend every parent to start um is on their knees because again, this is war and it's not gonna go over well.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: But when you invite God in, ask him to soften hearts, prep the conversation, give you the right timing of the conversation, seek first his kingdom, and his heart is to restore families.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: So he's going to bless this.
23:45
SPEAKER_02: But I would start with prayer and just being like, God, I have messed things up and I'm, you know, guilty here.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I want to make a change for the better for the sake of my children.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, seek him first.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: And then um kids really respond well when you speak to them respectfully and you know, like give them the facts, give them the truth, admit your faults, and you know, own it, but also just tell them what's happening, why you want to make these changes.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Parenting is hard, just like being a teenager is harder than ever.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Parenting is harder than ever.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: So we didn't know all these facts about anxiety and depression and just giving kids phones and that this was gonna be the outcome, but now we do.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: So it is now time to, you know, rein things in.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: So make those changes.
24:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, so going back to other just yeah, have the conversation, participate with them in the conversation.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: So, or in not in the conversation, in the habits.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Participate with them in the habits.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna do this together.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, and even like after you explain some of some of the facts, maybe some of the science behind it or some of the reasoning that you have, like, you know, asking, like, what do you think about that?
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, just just to engage them in the conversation, I think, is good.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: And they may differ in what they think about it, but at least you're giving them the opportunity to voice, you know, and and how is that gonna be hard for you?
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Tell me how that's gonna be hard for you.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: That's hard for me too, you know.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: And so it is like a a we and together, and the we part can be hard, I think.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah, it's important.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, a phrase again, like it's my job to protect you.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: If you're under my roof, it's my job to protect you, and I'm seeing these patterns are harmful for you.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: And so if someone comes breaking in with to to steal our stuff, like I'm gonna protect you in the same way, this device, it's my job to protect you.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna set some boundaries, we're gonna create some habits, and I'm I'm in this with you.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: I think that's yeah, easier said than done, especially for most parents, because you you see it at the restaurants.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: You you got parents scrolling, you got kids scrolling, and if we can be unified and be like, hey, we're we're going to protect our family together, and but if if there's pushback, which Meg will talk about pushback in a second, but uh we've we've got to hold that line of like, no, this is this is for your good.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: You don't understand it now, but but you will long term.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's tough though, as a parent.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, speaking of pushback too, I mean, inevitably someone's gonna say, you know, everyone else gets their phone, everybody else gets to keep their phone, so and so does this, they're up, you know, they have 14 hours of screen time a day, and I only have seven, you know, and they'll compare, or you know, you just don't trust me.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So, how do you recommend that parents navigate the questions and the pushback and and you know, the comparison and the that internal struggle as a parent to to want your kid to fit into spaces and places?
27:05
SPEAKER_01: I think we we can really struggle.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: I personally know that there's been times when I've wanted to give in to something because I'm like, oh, I don't, you know, like I know that's hard for him and I don't want him to feel like left out or whatever.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, how how do you recommend parents respond to those things?
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's hard and every kid and every family is walking through something different.
27:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, so don't expect, you know, one thing to work for everybody.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's not gonna be the norm.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: And it's uncomfortable to not be in the norm, and it's yeah, it's uncomfortable for everybody.
27:38
SPEAKER_02: So I know Jesus calls us to walk differently than the world, and he says it's not gonna be easy, but he says he'll do it with us.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: So um I don't know what the exact fix is gonna be for everybody, but um yeah, together is a great place to start.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: Um we all are subject to faults in this area, and um I think we could all, you know, change for the better.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: But um it might be best to do a little bit at a time, you know, maybe like 30 minutes instead of an hour before bed or whatever that looks like.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Just making little habits.
28:22
SPEAKER_02: And then um you can't just stop one habit and not like the way to successfully end one habit is to replace it with something else.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: So that would be um my advice is like have a plan for what you're gonna do instead.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: So that we can talk about.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh yeah, that's that's good.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think it's interesting too, once you start getting the the pushback, reminding your whole family, like we are always gonna do what's best for our family, right?
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Regardless of what other families are doing.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: And there will be beautifully moraled Christian families who do very different things than you do.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
29:06
SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can't compare.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: I uh we have a friend, um, their last name, uh she won't mind if I share, I don't think, but their last name is Windsor, and they call it the world of Windsor.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: And she says, We do what's best for the world of Windsor.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not gonna compare our family to another family.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, kind of what is your world that you your your values and your morals and the things that you're trying to do, and just again, get your kids to buy into that, but it might be slow and they might come kicking and screaming, but eventually, yeah, over time, eventually as they sleep more, yeah, and as they're detached more, like they will start to feel like their old self.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: And they'll be like, okay, I see where this is going because sleep is great.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we we've talked about, you know, us as parents looking at the mirror of our cell phone use.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, we've talked about it's never too late.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Um kind of little deviation, you know, our kids are eventually gonna leave our home.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Um is there a progression or is there a um, you know, let's say they their senior year, then we kind of we pull back to to I've heard different parents say, you know, we we have cell phones downstairs and until they're seniors because we want them to fail with a safety net in our home, as opposed to when they go off to college or they move out, then they have free reign.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: So we can teach them a little like what's the the balance of that?
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Do you recommend or see you know that that progression of like uh as they're growing, they're gonna start making their own decisions on their device.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, regardless, that device is it's ours because we bought it and it's it's still we can make the decision, but what what's a healthy kind of balance of of that?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Of like as they're about to launch, yep, how much do we let go?
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Do we just full let go?
31:10
SPEAKER_00: Or is there yeah, anyways.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that idea of just train, train, train.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: And that's you know, I think y'all went through like the steps of a parent.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: I love that episode too.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Just like, you know, parents need to be parents at this time and we can be friends later.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: But um, I yeah, as their senior year before they're on their own, yes, give them that time to self-navigate and then you know, check in, see how things are going, and still give your input when you can.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times if we don't, you know, things spiral once they're on their own, which we want to avoid.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, getting all the freedom and then not knowing how to navigate it.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, and you're really we're training them to critically think about how they're interacting with the world around them.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: And that's a heavy part of that is their phone.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that that natural kind of releasing comes with the training of going, I am and saying to them, I am preparing for you to take this phone, and I won't be there to to tell you what to do with it.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna start here very limited, but eventually it's your choice, and I want you to make a choice that's gonna be healthy for you, but I know you're not ready for that choice yet.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, yeah, that's our job.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: And the interesting thing is is that some kids are like all against social media now.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: Like they're finding like this is really unfulfilling, and you're having a complete 180 with that, and it's a beautiful thing.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I know my oldest, he he's old enough to get Instagram, and I I see all the Instagram teen accounts and safety and whatever.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: And uh I just asked him, you know, would you want Instagram?
32:51
SPEAKER_00: He's like, actually, no.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's anything good on there for me.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: And he feels like he's missing out on a ton of stuff because all his friends talk about it, but he's he's made the decision right now.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that may change as he as he progresses and gets older, but uh it it is interesting.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: There is a a a pendulum swinging of like, nah, I don't want to be a part of that.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: So we've talked a ton of stuff, uh, given some some some facts and some details, things that you've dealt with with families, but you know, uh so a parent listening right now, like what's one simple, super practical thing, hey, they can do tonight.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: They they're listening, like I can start doing this tonight.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: What is that?
33:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so tonight um is your chance to reconnect.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: So let's just as a family have a conversation and be like, okay, this is our new healthy habit that we're going to integrate.
33:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, the easiest thing is as a family to kind of put all your phones together in, you know, a charging station.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, everybody feels like, okay, this is all, you know, a little sacrifice of all of us.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: It's not just me, the teenager that or the young kid that has to put away.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: And then kind of have some options in mind of what to do with the night space instead, um, reading books on paper, journaling, listening to music, taking a nice long shower, bath just to calm down, um, you know, things like that.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to suggest reading the Bible sometimes to my patients just because God's word is healing.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: Um and then if they do want to read a book, just go sit with them while they're reading a book.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Or if you want to ask, like, is there anything you want to talk about or anything you're struggling with?
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Like, just use that time to really, you know, work through things and be there.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Super simple, practical.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: So good.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: So good.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: So good.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: I have one one question that's a little off script, but I think parents always ask, what age is the age to give your kid a cell phone?
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Do you know?
34:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you have an age?
34:58
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Every parent class or anything I teach, like I could be talking about discipline or something.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Hey, when can I give my kid a cell phone?
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Like that that comes up every single time.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Again, every family situation's different.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, you have the divided families where kids are one place over the weekend, so that's a definitely a different situation.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, kids who are at practice till eight o'clock at night, you know, with sports and everything.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't think it's the phone that is the dangerous factor.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, see where your phone or see where your kid is using the GPS tracker and having a way for them to communicate.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: It's more so the um social media accounts and the unlimited access to what's out there.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's more and kids mature at different ages, um, but uh the longer you can wait, the better.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Right.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Um 13, 14 would be a lot better than 11.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:07
SPEAKER_02: So that's good.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and knowing your kids' maturity, knowing what they're ready for, yeah, and and telling them that, you know, I don't think you're mature enough.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know, each each one of my kids, like they've got their phones at different times, and then my youngest is like, oh well Chandler got her phone at this age, so I I've just got a couple more years, and I'll get my phone.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, it's based on a lot of factors and trust, and yeah, and every family's different.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, Lindsay, thank you so much for just your wisdom and your heart to really encourage parents just with what you see day in and day out.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: I think this is a vital um topic for us to to really um uh address, but also encourage parents.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: Like it this is not uh the the phone's not the enemy.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: The phone's not like you know, the enemy's gonna use whatever it's it doesn't have to be the phone, it can be something else.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: But for us to be aware of these things and and to protect and teach and train our kids is is vital.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Meg, we got some other resources too we want to highlight along with uh our conversation that parents can can find.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have a resource on our website in powertromes.org.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: It's a tech's detox commitment card, and it also gives tech replacement ideas like you were talking about.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: So if we're gonna take one thing away, what's a healthy habit that we can build?
37:31
SPEAKER_01: And so you can download this for free.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: And it it's just um it starts with seven days of maybe detoxing at it, could be you know, graduated or it could be completely, but maybe it's something you could do as a family and to just sort of like let's just cut it completely and then enter into more of a healthy habit.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: So you can download that.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: We'll put the link in the show notes.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Two books that we recommend.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, our friend Jessica Peck, she wrote a book called Behind Closed Doors.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: She talks about some of the dangers of a lot of different things in this book, but she does hit on social media, cell phone usage, technology, things like that.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: And then also we had Ranya Mancarios on the podcast.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: She talked about her book, The Online World.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: And she really gives good tips for teaching kids how to interact on social media.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: So we're not saying like don't ever give them social media, but how are you teaching them to interact on social media in a healthy way that protects them?
38:22
SPEAKER_01: And she she's the um CEO of Crime Stopper, so she's talking a little bit more about some of those really dangers, yeah, crazy dangers.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: But um recommended read, and you can go listen to the podcast.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: We'll link that to in the show notes.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, this was so fun.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Lindsay.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Lindsay.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for those of you who are wanting more information or uh any of the books or that we reference or any of the content, you can find all of this at Empowered Homes.org.