Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 103. How to stop spiralling and take action when you’re overwhelmed with Joanna Brewster

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103. How to stop spiralling and take action when you’re overwhelmed with Joanna Brewster · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

0:00
Welcome back to the All Figured Out podcast.
0:02
I'm Andrea Barr, thanks for joining me again this week.
0:05
I had such a good conversation with a friend of mine, Joanna
0:10
Brewster. I can't believe some of these
0:12
people that I have met in my career and know who are just
0:15
such geniuses in their craft. Joanna Brewster is one of those.
0:19
So today's episode is part emotional intelligence master
0:22
class, part therapy session, and I mean that in the best way.
0:26
I sat down with Joanna Brewster, who is a leadership and
0:29
emotional intelligence coach, and I used myself as a bit of a
0:33
Guinea pig to unpack what's really underneath some of those
0:36
moments of irritability, frustration, and overwhelm that
0:40
so many of us feel, especially as parents.
0:43
We also talked about how Joanna bravely rebuilt her life and
0:46
career after a major accident and the decision to end her
0:50
marriage when she realized that she had really lost herself in
0:53
the process, throughout her career and her life of becoming
0:56
a mother and being a wife. This is Emotional Intelligence
1:00
101, but with really practical examples and through
1:04
storytelling. And it really is a story of how
1:07
you can reclaim your voice, reclaim your purpose, and most
1:11
importantly, your power. So without further ado, Joanna
1:14
Brewster, you're listening to the All Figured Out Podcast.
1:19
I'm your host, Andrea Bart. I'm a career coach for parents,
1:24
mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
1:27
winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
1:30
world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
1:33
I've learned one thing. No parent has it all figured
1:37
out, and that's OK. Here, we're all about growing
1:40
personally and professionally while keeping family time
1:43
sacred. You'll get practical tips,
1:45
career strategies and musings on life, plus guest experts to help
1:49
us fill in the gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
1:52
car for some me time. We're about to figure out this
1:55
work, life and parenting stuff out together.
2:00
Joanna Brewster, thank you so much for coming on the All
2:03
Figured Out podcast. It's such a pleasure to finally
2:05
have you here. Yeah.
2:07
Thanks for welcoming me, Andrea. I'm excited for this
2:10
conversation and just to to dive into the discussion with you.
2:14
Yay. OK, there's some.
2:17
Like I always say, there's so much, so much to get into so
2:20
many places and spaces. And I'm always seek solace in
2:24
the fact that this doesn't have to be a one and done.
2:26
So I'm not going to try to fit everything into one because
2:28
you're such a multifaceted person.
2:29
You're such an interesting story and a story that I actually
2:33
don't know too much about and our listeners probably don't
2:36
know anything about it. So for those who don't know you
2:39
and for myself as well, I would love for you to take us back.
2:45
I know you shared in some prep for this recording.
2:48
You said, you know, I kind of got to a point in my life where
2:51
I thought I was happy and I have a feeling there's a story around
2:56
that. You said there was career pivots
2:58
and maybe you realized it wasn't the case, that that you weren't
3:02
living out your purpose. So take us back to that journey
3:05
of getting to that point where you realized this.
3:10
Maybe I'm not. Happy.
3:14
Yeah, yeah. So part of it was a realization
3:18
of I'm not happy. And then part of it was sort of
3:21
a, a forced choice, I guess. Um, so I'll go back kind of to
3:29
the beginning and probably beginning with, I had started
3:34
working for the federal government and it was 1990, 9,
3:42
shortly after I had gotten married and my family thought I
3:48
had landed my dream job. You know, federal government
3:51
pension benefits, flexible schedule because you could work,
3:57
you know, longer shift and then have a flex day every couple
4:00
weeks you'd get a day off. And I enjoyed the job at the
4:05
beginning. It was a lot of interesting
4:07
learning and learning new skills and working with customers.
4:10
And I, I really found satisfaction in that.
4:13
But I looked around and saw a lot of unhappy people and
4:17
thought, this is not what I'm meant to do.
4:21
And So what I had always really been interested in and wanted to
4:25
do was far more creative. And it was fashion design.
4:29
And I talked to my husband at the time and said, you know, I
4:34
can't see myself in this career forever and I really want to go
4:38
back to school and pursue fashion design.
4:42
And so we talked about that and agreed that I could do it part
4:46
time in the evening. And so I went back to school and
4:51
ended up doing really well and got a job while I was still in
4:55
school in the design industry. And.
4:59
Fast forward, I was working for a company that was kind of a
5:03
competitor to Lululemon and I was pregnant, got pregnant with
5:07
my daughter. And.
5:10
Was going to go back and realize that things weren't really
5:15
running the way they had been before I left and now having a
5:19
family thinking about that future.
5:23
Just thought maybe I need something a little bit more
5:26
stable. Maybe I, you know, need to to
5:28
make another pivot and I went into a career in marketing and,
5:36
and I was very happy in that job.
5:37
It blended sort of my business analytical side and it blended
5:42
my creative side. And I grew my position from just
5:46
a junior marketing assistant to their marketing manager.
5:50
And when I left on maternity leave, I was planning to come
5:55
back and continue my career there and grow my team.
6:03
I was excited and I was in a car accident when I was 8 months
6:08
pregnant with my son a month before I went on my maternity
6:11
leave. So when I say kind of a forced
6:13
choice, that was was the forced choice.
6:17
I was going to multiple therapies and treatments and it
6:21
came to the time for me to go back to work and most of my
6:26
doctors and specialists and therapists were saying you're
6:32
not going to be able to return to a full time job.
6:35
Wow. So that was a real shock and
6:43
change in my identity of sort of, OK, what's next?
6:46
What do I do now because I don't want to not work.
6:51
And the gift was that I got to be home with my kids and I got
6:54
to be around for all of their, you know, school performances
6:58
and activities and drop offs and pick up.
7:04
But I knew there was still a purpose that was in me that I
7:07
wanted to fulfill. And so I began volunteering and
7:12
I did a lot of volunteer work in their school, and that's sort of
7:15
what led me to where I am now. That's how I got on that
7:20
journey. Oh my goodness.
7:22
Well, I can't even imagine. I mean, I can't imagine.
7:26
That's eight months pregnant, getting in a car accident.
7:28
That must have been so incredibly scary.
7:31
And you were just saying before we hit record that you were at a
7:35
soccer tournament for your son. So he was both of you.
7:39
Little resilient things making it through and coming out
7:43
thriving, it sounds like. So I mean, kudos to you.
7:46
And that is so. That's so scary.
7:48
And so how did that feel like that moment of being told you
7:54
can't return back to work? Did you agree with them in the
7:57
moment? You know, in some ways I did and
8:03
it was because I thought if I go back to work and I don't have
8:06
time to do these physical therapies and treatments that
8:11
I'm doing to take care of my pain and my body, I don't know
8:15
if I'm going to be able to do a good job.
8:19
Like I don't know if I'm going to be able to live up to the
8:22
expectations and of not only the company, but of myself.
8:28
You know, I knew what I was capable of before and I was just
8:31
worried that I wouldn't be doing as as good a job.
8:35
So in a way I agreed. I didn't want to ever take that
8:39
as a label of I can't work or I can't do something.
8:44
And. I was working on supporting my
8:49
ex-husband with the landscaping company is that we had started
8:53
as well. And so I was busy.
8:58
And I guess what I quickly realized was that the stress of
9:03
juggling that work and parenting and rehabilitation was not
9:09
helping me get better. And so the question was, what
9:15
does work look like for me? What will a career look like for
9:19
me? And it took some time to figure
9:21
that out. How did you figure that out?
9:24
That's a huge, that's a huge decision to make when you've
9:28
already pivoted a few times. And so you knew you were capable
9:31
of a pivot. And on top of that, you have
9:34
this layer of of like you said, you didn't want to be labeled as
9:38
you can't work, but work in the context of how you'd work would
9:42
look different, right? You have children, you you're
9:45
taking care of yourself, which I think is the bravest, coolest
9:49
realization that you made early on in that journey and saying I
9:52
need to take care of myself to take care of the little humans.
9:55
So how on earth did you rediscover that purpose?
9:59
I know you said volunteering. What else?
10:00
What? And now you are fully thriving
10:03
as a working individual and entrepreneur.
10:06
So how, how, how did you do that?
10:11
It's a very dear to my heart story.
10:14
I was volunteering in schools teaching a positive body image
10:19
program and it's called Free to Be.
10:22
And. I loved it and the students were
10:27
engaged and interested and I noticed that there were a lot of
10:32
boys coming up and asking me questions after the the classes.
10:37
And. I thought, you know, there are
10:40
so many programs out there for girls and obviously having a
10:44
daughter, I had had my my daughter in a bunch of programs
10:47
and, and I saw what is there for boys.
10:51
And so I was doing some research to see, you know, what are the
10:54
kinds of programs out there for boys that are maybe developing
10:57
their emotional intelligence, developing their leadership,
11:01
developing their self worth and their confidence outside of
11:05
sports. And I didn't find much.
11:10
And as I was doing this research, it was one day that my
11:13
son, about 9 or 10 years old at the time, walked up behind me
11:17
and said, Mom, what are you doing?
11:19
And I said, I'm doing some research for maybe, you know, a
11:22
business that I could start and, and what I could do is a new
11:26
career. And he very confidently said,
11:30
well, I know what you should do. And I said, what's that?
11:34
And he said, you need to have feeling talks with people.
11:38
I thought, wow, what what are you feeling talk?
11:41
So I said, what? Tell me of what is that?
11:44
What is that look like? And he laid it all out in a
11:47
structured format. And he's the first to do this.
11:50
Then you do this. Then you ask this.
11:52
Then you ask this and that's the feeling talk.
11:56
And I was like, wow, that is coaching and that's emotional
12:01
intelligence and that's kind of what we do at bedtime.
12:06
So I'm already doing it. And I thought that's incredible.
12:12
And so I looked up emotional intelligence training programs.
12:16
I found a coaching certification and probably within a few months
12:22
I was on my way to Arizona to do my first emotional intelligence
12:27
certification and that was at the very beginning of 2020,
12:32
right before everything shut down, last in person training.
12:38
Come on, Joanna, are you kidding me?
12:42
So you? Isn't there something to be said
12:44
about when something's right and there's this flow around it,
12:50
things can just happen pretty quickly.
12:54
Like people ask me sometimes they're like, OK, if I work with
12:56
you and I want to change, you know, pivot jobs or whatever,
12:59
what's the runway we're looking at?
13:00
It's obviously the heart. And they're like, I know you
13:02
can't guarantee. And they're like, but give or
13:04
take and like, you know, it could be, I mean, a month to six
13:07
months, 8 months, whatever. Like it, it's it's hard to say,
13:10
but there's something like my answer should be something like
13:14
when it's right and when there's this power and energy behind it,
13:19
like things can happen in weird, very mysterious, unexplained
13:24
ways. Like, oh, you just happen to
13:25
find this training program that happens to be in a couple months
13:28
time. You know, it's like that doesn't
13:30
just happen. These programs happen once a
13:31
year, twice a year, whatever. So incredibly cool.
13:35
I have desk. What what are the what were you
13:37
doing at bedtime for all the parents listening?
13:40
What can we do at that time to have our children then say these
13:45
feeling talks? I mean get give it to me.
13:46
I want to start. This.
13:47
Well, first I must say much harder with a teenager, OK?
13:53
Yeah. But young, you know, it was it
13:58
just felt very natural, like it was always that bedtime talk of
14:02
how was your day at school? You know, what happened on the
14:05
playground today or who did you play with and what did you
14:08
learn? And there, you know, something
14:10
would come out about something that happened in the classroom.
14:13
And usually he would OfferUp a feeling.
14:17
But if not, I would say, well, how did you feel about that?
14:21
And throughout that conversation, we would pull out
14:26
a bunch of different feelings that had happened during the
14:29
day. And sometimes there was feelings
14:32
around, you know, bedtime and going to bed.
14:34
And so I usually end up like, throughout the conversation.
14:37
OK, so we have, you know, Mr. Angry from the incident on the
14:42
playground. And we have Mr. Frustrated from,
14:45
you know, not getting attention from the teacher when you had a
14:48
question to ask or Mr. Tyard after school because you needed
14:54
a snack. And right now we have Mr. Hungry
14:57
and can't go to sleep and feeling anxious.
15:00
And, and so we'd have this handful of of feelings and I
15:05
would say, OK, what do you need to say to Mr. Angry to be able
15:10
to go to bed? And what did we what do we need
15:13
to finish with, you know, Mr. Frustrated And we would kind of
15:18
problem solve through those conversations.
15:21
And I didn't realize at the time that I was asking him a lot of
15:25
questions and helping him sort of figure out what the answer
15:30
was, that he could go back to school the next day and try
15:34
something different. And so, you know, him breaking
15:38
that down for me, really laying out that structure was like, oh,
15:42
OK, yeah. And did that work, do you think
15:48
that this works with, you know, different personalities like did
15:51
this work with your daughter, that type of approach?
15:55
We had a little bit of a different approach.
15:57
Often there was conversations around the day at bedtime, but
16:01
often it was, you know, that anxiety or trouble going to
16:04
sleep. And she wasn't as much of A
16:08
bedtime story fan. My son loved the bedtime stories
16:14
and reading books, but she didn't like that as much her and
16:21
what's the word I'm looking for? Like her secret sauce or what
16:25
she loved was imagination and like we would create a dream
16:32
ahead of going to sleep. So it would be, you know, what
16:35
do you want to experience in dreamland tonight?
16:39
And she'd say, well, I'd want to go ice skating.
16:43
OK, well, who do you want to come with you?
16:45
And what does it look like? Like, is there any colours or
16:48
any, you know, fun decorations or.
16:51
And we sort of like plan it all out.
16:54
And then she would feel calm enough to to go to sleep with
16:57
that vision and visual in her head.
17:00
So. That is so cool.
17:02
That totally plays to the different, um, like almost love
17:06
languages or, but not, I don't know what, I don't know what
17:09
this. Maybe this is emotional
17:10
intelligence, but tools, tactics, right?
17:13
Some people are verbal. Yeah.
17:14
But for her, she's maybe more visual.
17:16
Maybe she's like more creative in her mind and needs to kind of
17:19
create these worlds and to calm and soothe the mind versus some
17:23
people. It's just the talking isn't,
17:25
isn't their thing. When I'm coaching people, you
17:27
probably do the same. Especially I do these 4 hour
17:30
sessions to start out. It's a long day, but I can very
17:33
quickly. I do a personality assessment.
17:35
I can very quickly gauge, you know, their rhythms and how they
17:38
work. And so some people they're doing
17:40
self study for half of it and I'm getting them to think and
17:43
reflect and draw pictures and be tactile with sticky notes.
17:47
And some people, they want to talk the four hours, which is
17:50
incredible because they verbally process and make, hey, this is
17:53
foreshadowing into what we're going to be talking about too
17:55
with emotional intelligence. I imagine where there's you just
17:59
have to read the situation and it sounds like you did that so
18:02
well as a parent. Thank you.
18:04
Thanks. Yeah.
18:05
And as you mentioned that, you know, maybe those were some of
18:08
the the skills or competencies, you know, when we look at the
18:13
different profiles or assessment tools that I use, there are
18:17
different like brain talents. And for her, you know,
18:21
imagination was a strong one. And so yeah, you're right.
18:26
Like utilizing or listening for those different strengths or
18:30
ways that maybe people communicate like love languages
18:33
is is definitely something that those tools can show you, right?
18:40
What your strengths are, but then you can also use them for
18:43
relationships and how you communicate with people.
18:47
I'm curious from your perspective, given that rapid
18:51
nature of information at our fingertips now even quicker with
18:54
ChatGPT, which I think is a fantastic tool.
18:57
I think all these things are amazing and beautiful if and
19:00
when used appropriately and given the information overload,
19:06
especially in as parents. Are you noticing or do you
19:09
believe that there might be a bit of a shift away from that
19:12
sense of intuition? Like I know that something like
19:14
emotional intelligence is so intuition driven.
19:17
There's physical cues in the world, but a lot of it is really
19:20
reading these subtleties that you can't quite put your finger
19:23
on. What are what are your feelings
19:26
about that and about the information versus, you know,
19:29
just noticing what your child might be craving versus going
19:34
and seeing what Doctor Becky says?
19:38
Yeah. So if I understand your question
19:40
correctly, what comes to mind for me is that with technology,
19:45
with the way that they communicate and connect with one
19:48
another when it's through this screen versus the face to face,
19:55
we're losing a lot of information.
19:57
We're losing a lot of data. And that can't be replicated by
20:03
technology, right? Like facial cues, you know,
20:08
smiles, even just physical energy, those can't be
20:13
replicated. So we're missing a lot of that
20:16
information and we're seeing such an increase in anxiety.
20:20
And I think a lot of younger people are having trouble naming
20:27
what they're actually feeling. They don't really know anymore.
20:30
And there's also maybe a numbness to what what that is
20:36
because we're exposed to so much information that maybe we're not
20:42
as in tune with what we're actually really feeling.
20:45
So I think there's space to really start building emotional
20:51
literacy, you know, giving people tools to help name what
20:55
they're feeling. Most of us really use maybe 5
20:58
feeling words and there's more than 1000 feeling words.
21:03
And I think, you know, really, if we were to write them all all
21:08
down, probably most of us can't write down more than 50.
21:14
So yeah, you know, to really find the nuance and what we're
21:20
feeling, you know, if we say, oh, I'm angry, well, are you
21:24
angry? Are you annoyed?
21:26
Are you mad? Is it, how intense is it?
21:30
And once we can kind of figure out that information, that gives
21:36
us more data to be able to make decisions to be able to blend
21:41
that with our thinking towards the outcomes that we really
21:46
want. And I feel like there's got to
21:49
be something, something to be said about understanding your
21:53
definitions for things. I'm always kind of, I don't
21:56
know, I have this thing with words where I think words are so
21:58
important in the words you use are really important, can really
22:01
impact other people. And at the same time, boards
22:04
have so much nuance, like a word to me and a word to you.
22:07
The same word can have such different meaning.
22:10
And it's, I think it is important to really think about
22:12
that word. Angry.
22:13
Angry to me and my threshold for anger, it's like pain is very
22:18
different. You've spent time in hospitals
22:20
with family member recently, I've spent a bit of time in
22:23
hospitals, you know, here that scale, the pain scale.
22:27
And at first you're like, this is such a ridiculous question
22:29
because like, how do you even they're like the worst pain
22:32
you've ever felt is A10 the least it says.
22:35
But what I started to realize is they would, you know, when my
22:37
husband was in the hospital, you start to they start to gauge
22:40
what your threshold is. So the word pain to my husband,
22:44
they started to recognize, OK, and eight for him is really bad,
22:48
you know, but maybe someone else is using an 8 as just like I'm
22:51
in a bit of pain. So anyways, all that to say, I
22:53
feel like there's using the words or even even if it's just
22:57
in your journal or just thinking about the word engaging, OK, if
23:01
I feel anger, what is the threshold?
23:03
Like what is the level? And what's the level where you
23:06
know, when you're prepping to have a baby and they're like,
23:08
there's a difference between pain and suffering.
23:10
Like what is maybe you can handle those feelings of anger
23:14
internally if they're a simmer, but you know, is a four like OK,
23:18
this is moving into suffering. Like this anchor is creating
23:21
suffering within me. Yeah, or with and others around
23:24
me. Am I getting this kind of ish
23:26
accurately in terms? So like a more intense level of
23:30
anger would be rage. OK, right.
23:34
So, so if you look at Plutchik's wheel of emotions, you can see
23:42
different intensities of our core basic emotions.
23:46
And so it's fun to play with because they have different
23:50
messages. Like the message of anger is
23:52
something is blocked, something's in my way, that's
23:55
the message it's trying to tell us.
23:57
And when we know that, then we can make a choice.
24:01
So what do we want to do with that?
24:03
What do we want to do with that anger?
24:04
And how can we use that anger as fuel?
24:10
How can we channel it in a healthy way?
24:12
So we use a tool called VET, which is validate, explore,
24:15
transform. So when you validate that
24:18
feeling that immediately drops the intensity when you name it
24:23
and you validate that that's what you're feeling, immediately
24:27
the intensity goes down. And then we can explore, well,
24:31
why is that coming up? What's blocked?
24:33
What's in my way? And then transform that into
24:37
something that we can use to move forward and motivate us.
24:40
So when we look at the six seconds change map, for example,
24:44
the feelings on the inside of change are often fear,
24:47
frustration, and judgment. And what we want to do is try to
24:51
shift those to the outside to support us through that
24:54
transition and change. We want to move that fear to
24:56
courage or that frustration to excitement, or that judgment to
25:03
curiosity, and that can really support us in making a change.
25:08
Oh my gosh, you just said so much in like 90 seconds.
25:12
Maybe not even. You're such a wealth of
25:14
knowledge. You came and spoke at the
25:16
Formula Fake event that I hosted in West Vancouver here and all
25:21
three of my panelists were so incredible and I had probably
25:28
every single person afterwards come up and say I where did you
25:30
find these people? Much fun that was.
25:34
Really. Like holy smokes.
25:36
I just couldn't. I couldn't have felt more.
25:38
I felt like this. I knew you guys would be great,
25:40
but I was sitting there being like, Oh my God, who am I even
25:42
up here? Like I was asking questions
25:44
like, this is ridiculous. So anyway, it's Oh my goodness,
25:47
OK, we got to break this down. We got to break this down.
25:49
OK, can we use an example? And can we use a very, very
25:54
common parenting example of irritability?
25:59
Yeah, end of the day, 5:30 PM, You're so tired.
26:05
You're trying to get dinner on the table, and at the exact same
26:09
time you're feeling irritable because you don't want to be
26:11
getting dinner on the table and you just want to be on the couch
26:13
with your kids snuggling and watching their show with them.
26:17
And your Apple Watch is going off with work messages in an
26:22
annoying way. So there's that irritability,
26:24
frustration when I how? OK, you did an example too, at
26:29
the formula figure band, and it was so cool.
26:31
So let's use that. That's a real example for me.
26:34
That's a real example for me. Yeah.
26:37
How do you move through that? Well, so let's start with the
26:42
irritability. And is there?
26:48
What other feelings would you name in that irritability?
26:55
FOMO but if fear of missing out like I'm missing out I'm I now
26:59
got to be with my kids but I'm not actually with them.
27:02
They're on the couch in front of me watching TV and I'm actually
27:05
physically disconnected from them because I'm cooking the
27:08
tacos. Right, right.
27:10
Yeah, OK. So what is that?
27:13
That's like I feel disconnected. Maybe, yeah.
27:18
Yeah. Is that a feeling?
27:19
Yeah, yeah, disconnected. OK, So what what is happening
27:29
for you when you feel that you're inability and
27:31
disconnection? What are your what?
27:34
What thoughts are coming up and what are you doing?
27:38
OK, you want the real real. The real real.
27:42
Yeah, the real real. OK, I start counting in my head
27:47
to make sure that the parenting load is 5050.
27:53
That's my truth. I start reevaluating how we
27:59
split everything because I do food, food prep, shopping for
28:04
the food. My husband does that whole whack
28:07
of other stuff. Like a lot.
28:10
Laundry being one of them, which is a huge thing, so much
28:13
laundry. But that's where I go.
28:16
I, and especially at certain times of the month when the
28:20
irritability, irritability has gone up, I start, yeah, I start
28:24
counting. I'll I'll call it counting
28:26
checking for fairness. OK.
28:28
So with the thought be is this fair or yeah, I'm doing more?
28:39
Yeah, it's kind of in, in judgment.
28:42
Yeah, yes, yeah, yes. OK.
28:44
And then what is the action that often follows because of those
28:50
feelings of irritability and disconnection and the thoughts
28:54
that are happening? You're like watching me as I'm
28:57
starting to just Greg Greg down in his smile and like recoil
29:03
him, but I'm going for it And I would have this conversation
29:06
with Scotty too. So it's fair game.
29:09
Scotty. Well, the way that we set up our
29:12
rhythms is I work out in the mornings.
29:13
I wake up early and it works perfectly for me.
29:17
I between, you know, 440-5530, I'm cooking dinner, doing
29:22
lunches, whatever for the next day.
29:24
My husband's Scotty is downstairs working out.
29:26
That's his time to work out. This is the, this is the rhythm.
29:30
So he's done his workout. He's coming up, he jumps in the
29:33
kitchen, he's unloading the dishwasher.
29:35
He's cleaning up after me as I'm cooking.
29:36
Like these are all lovely things, right?
29:40
What's really happening is I've just been counting in my head.
29:44
I'm feeling disconnected from my kids.
29:45
This is such a good therapy session joining.
29:48
This is just what this podcast that's gonna be.
29:50
And then he's unloading the dishwasher, which is right in
29:55
front of the stove. OK.
29:58
So I'm gonna wait. So he's in my way.
30:03
So I've already been counting. Then he comes in, he's helping.
30:07
But in my head I'm like, you're in my way and this is my job is
30:12
the food. And now I can't get the food
30:15
cooked because you're trying to be helpful and I don't want to
30:18
stop you from doing this. I don't want to discourage.
30:23
This right? Oh my God, am I nuts.
30:27
No. So human and so common.
30:32
I know that feeling Well. I've often thought, yeah, you're
30:35
in my way right now, but you're being so helpful.
30:40
Well, and I'm not even blaming the house.
30:42
I'm not like really I should be thinking what the hell would
30:45
they put the dishwasher right in front of the store?
30:47
Like that's a weird place. Anyways, no, I'm blaming him
30:50
right now. Blaming House of Blame.
30:51
Him right OK, so we've got the feelings of irritability
30:55
disconnection now a bit more irritability with you're in my
30:58
way the stocks of this isn't fair and you're counting kind of
31:06
measuring checking that out and then what are you doing like
31:11
what is the action that happens I'm going.
31:14
Quiet. So instead of just idly chit
31:17
chatting, oh, how was your day? You know, it's a moment where we
31:21
could actually be connecting, right?
31:23
Because we're both, we're side by side.
31:24
We're puttering. Yeah, doing, you know, mindless
31:26
tasks. I go quiet.
31:30
And maybe he asked me a question.
31:31
I kind of just answer but I'm not connecting.
31:34
OK, so you're. Shutting.
31:35
Shutting. Down a little bit, OK.
31:39
Yeah. Oh yeah.
31:41
OK, so if we frame that as as a pattern, right, if this is
31:46
something that happens frequently in the kitchen at
31:49
dinner time, it would be a when I when I statement.
31:54
So when I feel irritable, irritated, disconnected, I and
32:03
then it could either be think this or do this.
32:06
So it could be I think this or I shut down.
32:11
So thinking about all three of those, the feelings, the
32:17
thoughts and the actions, if you could change one, which one
32:24
would you start with? Well, my my rational brain
32:31
perhaps says I why don't I go to the root cause with the
32:35
disconnect and just kind of nip it in the bud.
32:39
OK. Because what if I reframed?
32:42
Yeah. What would that look like?
32:45
Well. This is my, my kids a little
32:48
love watching TV for the 30 minutes they get to watch TV
32:51
while I'm making dinner. And to be honest, if I put on a
32:55
little podcast or something and I'm, I'm 10, you know, 5 feet
32:59
away from them, why why can't that be a nice moment for them
33:04
to enjoy them to just relax? Like I do believe I know some
33:09
people have feelings about screen time.
33:10
My kids don't aren't negatively affected by it if they watch 30
33:14
minutes in the week and the. Week night or whatever, right?
33:16
And they love it, and they're cuddling on the couch together.
33:20
And what if I could take that time to have a moment to do what
33:25
I love, which is listening? To podcasts, yeah.
33:28
Instead of seeing it as a disconnect.
33:30
Yeah. So when you do that, reframe,
33:33
what are the feelings that you experience when you think about
33:37
that? Well, it really does kind of
33:40
cascade. I'm like, then I wouldn't feel
33:43
the disconnect. I wouldn't feel, I wouldn't
33:45
start counting because I'd be like, what a gift it is to have
33:47
this time to listen to my podcasts.
33:50
Yeah, Plug for all figured Out. You know, you could be listening
33:52
to all figured Out while you're doing and then it's like I show
33:58
up as a better person. Scotty comes in.
34:01
If he's in my way, I could make a joke like yo, get out of my
34:04
way. He'd get out of my way.
34:05
You. Know make it playful.
34:08
Or, or be like, hey, I'm just let me just finish cooking and
34:10
then you can tackle that. Thanks for doing that.
34:13
How much better is that? Yeah.
34:15
So that's emotional intelligence or sorry, is there any?
34:18
Do we have to keep going? No, that's.
34:20
It, that's it. If you can identify the pattern
34:24
that is happening, whether you begin with the feelings or the
34:28
thoughts or the action that's happening now, you have a choice
34:32
to change it. And so you reframed it.
34:36
But somebody might start by saying, OK, well, I don't want
34:44
to think that the workload isn't fair.
34:46
So I'm going to choose the thought that I'm grateful that
34:51
we have this agreement and that we've split the workload.
34:57
So they would identify a new thought to have.
35:01
And when you identify that new thought, what are the feelings
35:05
that that brings up? And, you know, I saw in your
35:08
face like it looked like more joy and, you know, happy that
35:11
the kids are having their their moment and, and that now you get
35:16
a chance to listen to your podcast.
35:19
And so the feelings shift and then the action shifts.
35:24
So if you can identify which one can you shift the most easily,
35:29
it is. It's a cascade.
35:30
They're all going to shift. That's like magic, Joanna.
35:35
And it takes time, right? It's it's laying a new neural
35:40
pathway for a new pattern. And So what happens is that our
35:46
pathway has been laid for that original pattern.
35:49
So probably even before he comes in the kitchen, well down that
35:55
pathway, right? I know.
35:57
I've been there. It's been yeah.
36:01
And our brains do that because we like efficiency.
36:05
And so it it chooses that one, and we have to tell it to lay a
36:11
new one, you know, walk through those weeds and cut that grass
36:15
down, lay that new pathway and walk that one.
36:17
And the more we do that, the easier it becomes.
36:21
That's why I think things like coaching and therapy are so
36:24
counseling are so are so important because I find it's
36:28
like this sandbox where you can do these little exercises or
36:31
these practices and get everything out verbally to hear
36:35
it yourself in a very, I don't know, very, what's the word a
36:40
place that's safe. Yeah, yeah.
36:43
As I can imagine that does like, I don't, I can't quite remember
36:45
what we just did. And so it would take me a couple
36:47
like I'll listen back to this and be like, OK, right.
36:49
So you, what was the feeling? What was the trigger or the
36:52
feeling? You know, it's, it does take a
36:54
bit. Now you have some resources.
36:56
We'll make a blog post and we can put this process in there in
36:59
the notes so that people can kind of come back to this
37:01
because there's. Yeah, I, I feel like it would
37:03
take a bit of practice to try to just flow through that,
37:07
especially these these gorges we've created in our minds,
37:10
these neural pathways. That are snow formed.
37:13
Probably was formed, but we used to do dishes in my house.
37:15
The kids and like Oh my gosh, would be kicking each other,
37:18
whipping each other with towels. Like it was a lot more
37:21
aggressive back then, but. Like, yeah.
37:23
I could see where this this all came from.
37:25
So, so we, Oh my gosh, I don't even know how we got to this
37:29
already, but is this is emotional, This is the work of
37:33
emotional intelligence. When you said emotional
37:35
intelligence, is that what we just did?
37:37
Yes, it's the practice. It's a daily practice and it's
37:42
not something that we're going to arrive at a point where, oh,
37:47
I am emotionally intelligent and I have no more work to do.
37:50
It is a daily practice and it's tuning into what we're feeling.
37:55
It's being able to name that. It's being able to be self aware
37:59
enough to start to explore and recognize what our patterns are.
38:04
And then it's being able to find those choices.
38:08
And the other part of it is the self direction piece, which
38:14
really ties to our values. So when we can connect with what
38:18
our values are, that can really support us in our choices.
38:22
You know, so your value might be that time with with your kids,
38:27
so family. So how can you align what you're
38:32
doing in the kitchen to that value and be modeling for them
38:37
also, you know what what you want them to see.
38:42
And so, you know, I recognized I didn't want my kids to see me so
38:47
irritated and angry all the time.
38:51
I wanted them to see me. Those are natural feelings.
38:54
And obviously we're going to have them.
38:56
And it's yes, like by all means show those feelings, but then
39:00
show how you deal with them and how you navigate them and, and
39:07
make that choice to kind of transform that.
39:09
And so even being able to say, I'm really irritated right now
39:14
and I don't want to get to the place where I disconnect from
39:17
everybody and shut down. So can you all help me right now
39:24
and figure out what that looks like for you as a family or for
39:28
you as a couple? Can you all help me by not being
39:31
so irritated? I'm kidding.
39:37
You're like, no, you're completely missing this.
39:42
Wow. How would you define?
39:44
So when we because we hear emotional intelligence a lot,
39:48
it's become very pop psychology like.
39:50
It's become very much like a term people throw around.
39:53
But if you were to kind of give it your own little definition,
39:55
does it have to be anything eloquent?
39:56
But what is it? What is it?
39:59
Yeah. So my quick definition of it
40:01
would be, you know, being aware of your own and others feelings,
40:07
using that information to blend. With your thinking to make
40:13
choices for optimal outcomes. Cool.
40:17
And. I think what we forget is that
40:21
first, as humans, we are emotional creatures that think.
40:27
We are not thinking creatures that feel.
40:30
And we've been so taught and programmed to not feel, not
40:34
feel, not feel. Don't bring those feelings into
40:37
the workplace. Don't talk about how you feel.
40:40
That shows weakness that we start to lose that data and that
40:45
information and we become very reactive.
40:49
And when we're able to take that data of our feelings and use
40:53
that we, we have that choice to become responsive.
40:57
And so we can take that moment to pause.
41:03
And this is another thing I'll share.
41:05
So what happens when we react is it's our amygdala getting
41:09
hijacked, right? That emotion is kicking open our
41:14
brain. So if this is our, I don't know
41:16
if everybody will be able to see this, but if we hold up our hand
41:20
and our thumb is our amygdala, not tucks into the inside of our
41:24
palm and then we close the fingers over top, that's our
41:28
prefrontal cortex. Well, when our amygdala gets
41:31
hijacked and it kicks open our prefrontal cortex, we're not
41:35
using our thinking brain anymore.
41:38
So by being able to take a pause, we're able to bring that
41:41
back online. We're able to use the data of
41:44
both our thinking and feeling brains, and now we can respond
41:48
instead of react. Of all the neuroscience
41:54
psychology I've learned about, nobody has ever done the
41:58
amygdala. Yes.
42:00
How is that possible? Love that.
42:05
Yeah. I love that because I was like,
42:07
oh, you know, the reptilian brain in the back of your head
42:09
about here, like where you're back there.
42:14
I can't see inside your head. Yeah.
42:16
Where is it? OK, so it's the thumb in the
42:19
fist, but then it gets hijacked. It's like a beast coming out and
42:22
it's like roar and then. Yeah, it's that it's that fight,
42:26
flight or freeze, right? And that's what our emotions do
42:30
to us. And so and you know, we we have
42:33
multiple emotions that can happen, right?
42:38
We might not just feel one thing.
42:40
So that that can play a role in how long that lasts.
42:45
But scientifically, it's 6 seconds that that it takes for
42:52
that chemical reaction to cycle. So if you can pause for six
42:56
seconds and either take a deep breath or I, I was taught by one
43:02
of my mentors and one of my first trainings was, you know,
43:05
name six of the seven dwarfs or name six of your favorite foods
43:11
or, you know, six places you want to travel.
43:14
Like, find a little game you can play with yourself to take that
43:18
pause and then name that feeling and figure out what's going on.
43:24
Make a more intentional choice to respond.
43:28
That is so interesting. And you were saying that we're
43:31
emotional humans, we feel things.
43:34
Emotional creatures that think. That think it's so interesting
43:40
that because then what came to mind is whether you named the
43:44
feeling or not, it's still there Yeah.
43:46
So I'm even thinking, I don't know why like the, my corporate
43:49
life came up for me in that moment where it's definitely a
43:53
place where you are. I mean, you know, there's the
43:58
the unlearning of like, don't cry, don't cry, whatever when
44:01
you're younger. But we didn't grow up that way.
44:03
Like, I have three sisters. We were all crying all the time.
44:05
Like, that was fine. But it was when I got to the
44:07
corporate world where I was totally myself.
44:10
And then I started to learn these funny little habits of
44:13
like, really stifling the feelings, being professional.
44:19
And of course, there's a time and a place.
44:22
You don't want to be a robot, but you don't want to be some
44:24
hot mess. But yeah, it was just that that
44:27
was the really prevalent. I noticed.
44:29
Regardless, regardless of you're staying in that thinking spot,
44:33
the feelings are still there. And so you're going to have
44:35
these. Then you see the person who goes
44:37
like lashes out at work. I've seen a couple lash, lash
44:42
out moments would have been like, what the actual fuck,
44:45
right? What is going on?
44:48
But I can only imagine the pent up pop can that's just loading
44:53
because they're not. Maybe they're not naming their
44:56
feelings Joanna. I can't remember what the, what
45:02
the phrase or what the terms for that, but there is, you know,
45:08
when you bottle that up, it will get to the point where it's like
45:14
a, you know, a shaken up pop can.
45:16
It's gonna explode so. Wow, absolutely incredible.
45:22
I love this. This is such an honest and
45:25
approachable way to explore this topic because I know there's a
45:27
lot of layers to this. This is like, you know, intro
45:31
intro, but I think that this is an important part of it.
45:33
Like, there's so many more layers we could go into, but
45:35
this feels like rolling. Very approachable and something
45:39
we can take away tonight. Yeah.
45:42
And tonight, whether in the workplace is.
45:44
Yeah. Is a leader as a parent.
45:46
Absolutely. This is incredible.
45:48
Now I want to go back to your story because there's other
45:52
layers of your story that we're kind of weaving into this
45:55
journey through emotional intelligence.
45:57
And it sounds like maybe there was a part of your journey where
46:00
you recognized how we were feeling in your marriage.
46:04
Are you, you know, to the level of comfort?
46:06
I know you said you're an open book.
46:07
Yeah. What was that feeling that you
46:10
started to feel? I felt completely disconnected
46:14
from myself. I felt lost.
46:19
I didn't know at, you know, what was my purpose.
46:23
And I think a lot of it came from that suppression of
46:29
feelings because every time I tried to express my feelings, it
46:33
was not a safe place. And so exactly what you said,
46:37
like in the workplace, it's often not safe.
46:41
And so people suppress and suppress.
46:43
And what happens is, yeah, you either bottle it up and lose it,
46:48
um, or you just slowly become empty and lose yourself.
46:55
And it took, it took a lot of sort of work on my physical
47:01
healing journey, but also an emotional healing journey of
47:06
really reconnecting to who I was and what I knew to be true about
47:11
myself and what I loved about myself and finding that again.
47:16
And through my coaching training, I did a lot of work in
47:23
uncovering that and refinding my voice, reclaiming my voice,
47:29
finding out, you know, what I love and who I am again and my
47:33
purpose. And now, you know, through
47:35
coaching, I love when I get to support other people and sort of
47:40
finding that place within themselves again.
47:43
It's. So beautiful.
47:44
And so there came a point where you realized it was just the
47:47
situation you were in was no longer in alignment with your
47:50
true self and who you wanted to be and expressed in this world.
47:55
Just I realized for myself that I was allowing things.
48:01
And. That I didn't want to model that
48:06
for my children any longer. I was allowing things that were
48:13
making myself be disrespected that we're crossing my
48:16
boundaries that were not healthy for me emotionally.
48:23
And I didn't want my children to see me as week.
48:30
I didn't want my children to see me as saying one thing and doing
48:34
another, you know, not being in alignment.
48:37
And so I got to a place where I had to make that choice.
48:42
And it was, you know, obviously a sad choice.
48:47
There's a lot of grief that comes with that letting go.
48:51
But it was a powerful choice in that I chose me and I recognized
48:58
my value and my worth and I'm much happier and I feel proud of
49:06
the example that I could set and try to continue setting, you
49:11
know, for my for my kids as well.
49:13
Yeah, congratulations. That's such a powerful story and
49:17
I can only imagine how proud they are of you.
49:19
Remind me how old your kids are now?
49:21
Yeah. So my daughter's 21 and my son
49:24
is 16. And how have they expressed if
49:27
they have at this point, I'm sure if not, it will come.
49:30
But how have they expressed this experience in seeing you
49:34
transforming this way? Like is there, there's grieving
49:37
I can only imagine on their end. But are they proud and excited
49:41
for you for choosing yourself? Are they there?
49:43
Yet, yeah, my daughter has definitely shared that, that
49:47
she's proud of me and that always remember that mom, you
49:52
know your value, your worth. And she she's taught me a lot of
49:57
that too, you know, just watching her be so strong and
50:00
who she is and not settling and knowing, you know, her, her
50:06
boundaries and her value. And so she's expressed that my
50:11
son is also, you know, obviously we've talked about the grief and
50:16
there is grief for all of us, but he's also said, you know,
50:19
I'd rather have 2 happy parents than miserable ones.
50:24
And so he he sees and he knows that I'm happy and he's proud of
50:29
me for that. And.
50:32
Yeah, I think that for anyone, you know, struggling on that
50:39
journey and feeling stuck or feeling like I don't have a
50:45
choice, you do. You do have a choice.
50:49
And for a long time I felt like I didn't have a choice and I
50:52
felt like I wanted to hold it all together for my family.
50:56
But getting to the place of me not being anything, how could I,
51:03
how could I be an example to them in that capacity?
51:07
And so making that choice was the right choice.
51:11
And now you know, being able to parent from a full place and a
51:15
place of confidence and worth and value.
51:20
Yeah, incredible. That is the.
51:22
That's such a beautiful story. And I have to ask, what were
51:25
those signs and symptoms for you?
51:26
How does 1 even tap in to recognize like, whoa, I've, I've
51:32
kind of lost myself. Like I, I find it hard to just,
51:35
you know, I wonder if there's people who are listening who are
51:37
like, how do I know if I'm there, if I'm at that place?
51:43
And I know this is this is just from your personal.
51:45
Experience just be from my personal experience, but great
51:49
question because I don't know that I've been kind of looked
51:51
back and reflected on like what that was for me.
51:58
I think I became very numb and I realized that when we were in
52:06
all of these social situations, I was putting on this mask of
52:12
having the perfect family and being really happy.
52:16
And I would go home and feel so sad and so alone and so empty
52:23
and so that there was number alignment between within my home
52:30
and what the outer world was seeing.
52:33
And. To recognize that it, I mean,
52:39
that was really hard to admit. It was really hard to accept and
52:45
admit, and I think for a long time I wanted to pretend like,
52:49
yeah, everything is fine, everything, everything is fine.
52:52
You know, people go through hard times and you can get through
52:55
it. And there were hard times that
52:58
we got through. You know, we were together for
53:00
21 years and there were hard times that we we got through.
53:04
And but when you get to a place where you can't speak, you can't
53:12
set boundaries or they're not respected, you feel like you
53:18
have to hide your feelings. You feel like you're walking on
53:22
egg shells and your inner world at home does not match what
53:27
you're showing the outer world. I think that would be the
53:31
indicator that I would say maybe just dig a little deeper within
53:36
them. Yeah, it's not to say this isn't
53:39
like if you are feeling this, you need to leave your partner.
53:42
It's just saying there's something there.
53:44
There's something to explore. Yeah.
53:47
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing
53:48
that. And you're just, you know, your
53:51
inner workings of what was happening because I think so
53:53
often we hear these stories and you're like, OK, yeah, that's
53:55
inspiring. But then and then you kind of
53:58
feel connected to it in some way, but you never really know.
54:00
Like, what what did they really mean by that?
54:02
You know, sometimes I'm like, oh, I wish they would have.
54:04
The host would have asked that question, like what?
54:06
What was happening? Like, what does that look like?
54:09
Even, you know, it's like you hear like a word like jargon.
54:12
You're like, I don't know what that acronym is, right.
54:17
Well, thank you. I appreciate hearing that.
54:19
And that's, I mean, even just seeing your face, telling the
54:22
story, going from like being that, you know, numb,
54:25
disconnected person who was living living in two different
54:28
worlds to then when you talk about your kids now and the work
54:32
that you do now and just even watching you as you work through
54:34
that process that you work through my kitchen example, like
54:38
you're so grounded. You're so good at what you do.
54:41
Thank you. And I have to ask also, how so?
54:44
It's one thing to to recapture your purpose and who you are and
54:49
your sense of self love and self worth.
54:53
How did you then layer on The Voice?
54:56
Because it's one thing to internally feel at all, but how
54:58
do you layer in? OK, now I'm finding my voice in
55:02
this world again. Like I I now feel comfortable to
55:05
speak when I didn't feel comfortable to speak before.
55:08
Oh, still learning that one, but it was it was having a mentor
55:15
coach that really supported that continuing the self-awareness
55:22
exploration, right? I think we can always be
55:26
learning and growing and there's times to, you know, maybe take a
55:29
pause and and just integrate what you've identified, but
55:34
continuing that exploration to really, OK, now I know what I
55:41
stand for. How am I integrating that into
55:45
my life? How am I showing up and doing
55:47
that? And so it is things like
55:50
speaking up when I see something that I don't agree with and
55:55
having the courage to do that. And it is sometimes choosing not
56:02
to speak, maybe leading by example.
56:06
And so, you know, that might be just somebody listens to this
56:11
podcast or it might be that somebody sees how I interact
56:17
with people in a, in a networking event.
56:21
It doesn't always have to be loud and announcing you know it.
56:26
It can be done in different ways.
56:29
But knowing within your heart who you are and what you stand
56:34
for, what your values are, and connecting everything that you
56:38
do to those values, I think is what grounds me and sort of
56:42
brings me into that presence and confidence in using my voice.
56:47
That's so beautiful. Oh, thank you.
56:50
There's so much more we could do.
56:53
We are. We're running short on time.
56:55
I've got questions about leaders and leadership, but we will save
56:59
that for another day. I have ask you, Joanna, what's
57:03
something that you're still trying to figure out?
57:05
Hmm. Well, I just mentioned, you
57:10
know, that finding my voice and where to use it.
57:12
I think I'm still trying to figure that out.
57:17
You know, imposter syndrome, I think plays a role in
57:21
everybody's life at some point. And so there are moments where I
57:26
think who am I to be doing this and who am I to, you know, share
57:30
expertise on this. And especially as a coach,
57:34
right? I think that kind of pops up
57:36
because as a coach, we aren't an expert, we aren't somebody who
57:40
has the answers. We are just someone who
57:42
facilitates the conversation to allow somebody to access their
57:47
own wisdom and answers. And so I do find that imposter
57:52
syndrome creep in at times when maybe I want to, you know, be
57:56
more out there speaking or I want to lead more workshops.
58:02
So that would be a piece that I would say I'm still figuring
58:06
out. I should just let you just feel
58:09
what you feel. But I also want to say, and I
58:12
hope you don't stop sharing and that you don't stop speaking.
58:15
You don't stop coming on podcasts, speaking on panels,
58:18
doing your workshops. Because yes, there's a time and
58:21
a place for coaching, but there's also a time and a place
58:23
for teaching and sharing from your experience and all that
58:26
you've learned. You've taken a ton of courses
58:29
and you've studied. And so if not you, then who?
58:32
Like who else could teach you? Speak from a place where you
58:34
understand, you know, I can share the example of wanting to
58:37
be with my kids, being irritable in the kitchen.
58:39
And you're like, yes, I see you. I, I, I've been you.
58:42
And that's not coaching. But there's still a time and a
58:46
place for that. You don't have to be Joanna the
58:48
coach all the time, right? Joanna the wise sage and where
58:55
can everybody find you? I know you have beautiful you
58:58
have a website and you have you share on social media.
59:01
So where can everyone find you? Yeah, so my website is actually
59:04
going to be redone over the summer.
59:06
I'm super excited. So you can still check it out,
59:10
but it will be redone. So hearttalks.ca.
59:15
And then on Instagram, you can find me at Heart Talks under
59:19
Score with Joanna Brewster. Nice, beautiful.
59:23
Thank you so much for sharing your story.
59:26
I am and your wisdom and just a bit about emotional
59:31
intelligence, but really how we can weave it into our lives as
59:34
parents, as leaders at work and just making it accessible.
59:38
Like it didn't didn't have to be this like course that we took.
59:41
Like just what is it? How do we name the feelings?
59:44
How do we then? Oh no, now I'm forgetting now
59:47
feelings into the what was the second?
59:49
Piece well feelings, thoughts and actions.
59:52
Thoughts and. Actions so TFA TFA thoughts,
59:57
feelings and. Actions.
59:58
Not feelings. Actions.
59:59
OK, OK. I love that.
1:00:02
Thank you. You're amazing.
1:00:03
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
1:00:08
Thank you so much for listening and since you made it this far,
1:00:11
please share this episode with a fellow parent who you love,
1:00:14
respect, and want to support. And while you're at it, hit me
1:00:18
up on Instagram at All Figured Out.
1:00:20
Andrea, I would love to meet you and hear what you are trying to
1:00:23
figure out these days.