Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Dominating the Sales Game: Insights from a Golf Champion, with Michael Shonk | Finance Series

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Dominating the Sales Game: Insights from a Golf Champion, with Michael Shonk | Finance Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories, where leaders
0:07
share their experiences so we can learn from their successes
0:10
how they've overcome adversity and explore current challenges
0:13
they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
0:18
the Inspired Stories podcast where leaders share their
0:21
experiences so we can learn from their successes how they've
0:24
overcome adversity and explore current challenges they're
0:27
facing. My name is Anthony Codispoti and
0:30
today's guest is Michael Schonk. He is a Senior Account Executive
0:34
at Avanos Medical Chronic Pain Solutions.
0:37
He is a highly accomplished, award-winning sales leader with
0:40
a comprehensive background in launching new products, turning
0:44
around underperforming territories, developing, winning
0:46
sales teams, and consistently exceeding sales targets.
0:50
Before we get into the good stuff with Mike, today's episode
0:54
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1:28
Now back to our guest today, the award-winning sales executive,
1:32
Michael, Sean, Mike, I appreciate you making time for
1:34
us today of course. So looking at your LinkedIn
1:38
profile, it appears that you've pretty much always been in
1:41
sales. What first attracted you to this
1:44
field, and when did you realize that this is something that you
1:48
could be really good at? Well, you know, I didn't really
1:53
even know what I wanted to do. I got done playing Professional
1:55
Golf and my standard Joker is once I once I found out girls
1:58
like a guy who makes a profit, I had to go do something else.
2:02
And one of my best friends the time was selling medical devices
2:06
and his job. I just would always talk to him.
2:08
His job looked pretty cool. So then he helped me, I said how
2:11
do I get into it and he said go sell copier.
2:13
So I went and got a copier sales job and then started realizing I
2:17
was pretty darn good at it. And you know, it just kept
2:20
growing and growing and growing and all of a sudden about, oh
2:25
boy, hold on a second, Eighteen years later, I've been selling
2:28
for 18 years and I had no idea it was 18 years until, you know,
2:32
12 seconds ago. So.
2:34
So you mentioned a couple of interesting things there.
2:37
First, Professional Golf career. Can you give your voice to that?
2:42
It was a fantastic experience. You know I I competed at A at A
2:47
at a very high level and you know was able to keep myself out
2:52
there and and and and you know be pretty decently successful
2:55
and make some money but never got to like the the big tours or
2:58
anything but now it's just maturity not the skill level but
3:03
you know you learn a lot. You learn to grow up.
3:05
You, you know, when you when everything you own fits into a
3:08
Honda Accord and you travel the country, you learn to take
3:11
responsibility for a lot of stuff and you just go battle it
3:14
out. And it's where I've learned my
3:16
competitiveness for my whole life.
3:17
So it's, you know, you're, you're willing to go do that,
3:20
you're willing to go into the trenches and sales and go do the
3:22
right to need the stuff you need to do.
3:23
So pretty, you know, pretty fun experience.
3:27
Interesting. And so from Professional Golf.
3:30
And your friend mentioned you start in copier sales.
3:33
Why specifically did he mention copier sales?
3:36
So medical sales representatives will what we're looking for when
3:41
I do an interview for somebody who's new into sales or come
3:44
trying to get into medical sales, we want to see that
3:46
business to business sales on your resume.
3:50
So meaning like somebody who sells cars or somebody who sells
3:54
like a real estate or they do, you know, like their realtor,
3:59
they don't actually go out and go through somebody's front
4:01
door, create a relationship and make a sale, right.
4:04
I didn't create that. Most of the time, like when
4:06
somebody buys a car, they come to the dealership, right.
4:09
So there's a difference in the sales process.
4:10
So we're always looking for that.
4:11
So copiers was, you know, go put on $100 suit, walk out in the
4:16
snow every day, go business to business and keep going and
4:18
doing that. And that's what like like
4:20
companies like myself look for. So I got lucky.
4:22
I had somebody teach me that and then I did it for like a year
4:25
and a half. And then I I have a conscience.
4:27
So I had to go do something else with my life from selling
4:30
copiers. Why do you say that you have a
4:33
conscience? Do you?
4:34
Are you more successful in top of your sales with that one?
4:38
Yeah, yeah, They are not the the best people that you've ever
4:42
come across at least like the people I was working with.
4:44
So they're just they're just a different type of people.
4:47
They're it's it's a different world out there and it's very
4:49
competitive. That's why the training is
4:51
awesome. It's ruthless and that that's
4:55
the the world that it is. So it's it's nice to be where
4:58
I'm at now versus that. I'm curious, you know, you
5:01
mentioned how you got your competitive spirit from playing
5:06
Professional Golf and that has helped you in your sales career.
5:09
Do you come across a lot of other sales reps who had a
5:12
strong background in sales, maybe they played pro, semi, pro
5:16
or or college sports and that same sort of competitive spirit
5:20
helps to fuel them? Yeah.
5:23
I would probably say like a good 70.
5:27
I my guess is probably 75% of the people who do medical sales
5:32
have some type of sports competitive background.
5:35
It's a it's a main thing we look for.
5:37
So like if I'm I'm if I'm looking for you know sports and
5:40
then copiers or sports then paychecks those are that's the
5:44
pedigree that I'm looking for for, for coming in if I'm hiring
5:46
for an entry level you know type job.
5:49
That's interesting. So sports copiers, paychecks,
5:54
because these two copiers and paychecks are very difficult to
5:58
do, kind of gives you proves that you've got some sort of a a
6:01
thick skin, you've had the door closed in your face a lot.
6:04
Yeah, 100%. Like, I mean, let's face it, if
6:08
you can walk in through a door and start a conversation about a
6:10
copier and get that person to like you and buy from you, you
6:14
can. You can sell a lot of things.
6:16
There's nothing, there's nothing more boring than a copy machine,
6:19
right? But like it's just the process
6:21
of it and they teach you so much.
6:23
The training that you go through for a copy or sales like is
6:26
second to none. I still to this day still use
6:28
all the training that I got from copiers in my everyday life
6:32
selling my product I do now and and paychecks is pretty similar
6:35
from what I've heard. It's, you know, they got to go
6:37
out and find, they got to go good businesses get them to
6:40
bring their services over to them and you know do it.
6:43
So it's a very similar type sales process.
6:46
So aside from looking for those items that you mentioned, a
6:49
background in competitive sports, background in copier
6:53
sales, paycheck sales, something like that, what are some
6:57
attributes, some qualities that you would look for in the
7:00
interview? Say I'm a business owner, I'm
7:02
somebody who's hiring, I'm in charge of a sales team.
7:05
I want to make sure I get somebody who's going to be
7:07
really good for this. What am I looking for?
7:09
Yeah. So one of the main things I do
7:12
is I ask them to sell me their current product.
7:16
I am listening for them on how well they use three and four
7:20
syllable words. I don't want them because when
7:23
you're selling medical to buy or whatever you're selling, if you
7:25
can use three or four syllable words, well, in a sentence, that
7:30
means that you're very trainable.
7:32
To me. I think it's a big thing.
7:33
So I always want to listen to that.
7:34
How what do they stutter on them or can they flow through their
7:37
sales process with the big words?
7:40
Because we can all memorize stuff, but can you understand
7:42
it? If you understand it, you flow
7:44
through your conversation in my opinion.
7:46
I also look for when I do interviews, I ask them about
7:49
their day and I want to see if physical fitness is a major part
7:53
of their day. I believe it is the number one
7:56
important thing for success and I think that I always look for
8:01
it. So I would not hire anybody who
8:02
is, who is being honest like who's overweight or like I I
8:05
look for physical fitness as a big thing when I'm hiring, when
8:08
I'm if I'm hiring somebody. I think it's a.
8:11
Major part. What's maybe the most common
8:14
thing that you see derail a salesperson in their career or
8:18
in their sales approach? For me, it's.
8:23
I think people buy from people that they like and trust and
8:28
people want to be taken care of in the sales process.
8:31
And that's why I go back to the physical fitness like I I look
8:34
at when I when I I I think it's a big thing.
8:36
I think if people can't take care of themselves it's hard to
8:40
get other people to trust. They're gonna, that person's
8:41
gonna take care of them. So I think it's a it's a major
8:44
thing. Like for me, I also think people
8:47
will use 100 words when eight would have been good and they
8:52
will talk. They won't.
8:53
They don't actually listen to anybody.
8:54
So and like you know and empathy, I I think empathy is as
8:59
just as important as the physical fitness part.
9:02
Like you your ability to not think of yourself and think of
9:06
somebody completely think of somebody else.
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And whenever I see these sales people, they they only talk
9:11
about themselves and not about the customer.
9:16
Do you think your skills are specific to your industry, or do
9:20
you think they would translate to pretty much any type of
9:24
business? You know, I don't want, you
9:27
know, I think it depends right. Like I think like if I have a
9:31
buddy in construction sales and I don't know if physical fitness
9:34
is as big of a thing as it is in, in medical, right, Like like
9:37
so that's a, you know it's they might be different you know.
9:40
But I I always believe you know if you're if you're physically
9:44
fit and looking better you're stronger like it's like it's a
9:46
big thing for you know career and your sales but definitely
9:54
everything else you know it would it would you know go from
9:56
from industry to industry. Yeah.
9:59
You possess a set of skills that are, in my opinion, attractive
10:03
to virtually any business, right?
10:04
You've got that ability to sell, to connect with people, and
10:08
sales are objectively the lifeblood of every business.
10:13
If you were to go into a new situation, go into a business
10:17
and help them develop a sales process, what would you do?
10:21
What would that look like? I would call, I would have to go
10:25
back to my copier sales and I would literally I it's it's
10:30
called the six step four part and I forget every single piece
10:34
of it, but I would develop that sales process and I would take
10:38
everybody through that sales process at the company.
10:42
Can you recall any parts of it, maybe just one or two that are
10:45
kind of? Like a good starting?
10:48
Place. It's like find a prospect, find
10:50
Mr. Right, arrange a demo demonstration, build rapport, do
11:00
a Broadway show for your demonstration and ask for the
11:03
business. And you do this because you sell
11:05
yourself, you sell your company, you sell your fab and you tell
11:12
your commitment to excellence. So that was like the six step
11:15
four part. Is it safe to say that even
11:18
though it took you a minute to kind of recall those steps, that
11:22
you're doing this consistently throughout your career, you're
11:26
still following that same framework?
11:29
100% like I I learned that 18 years ago and I haven't said it
11:33
to anybody and I probably said that like six times in the past
11:36
eight years and I could still get, you know, it just took me a
11:38
second. But yeah, no, I, you know, so
11:41
the first part of the sales process, you got to find who
11:43
you're going to sell to. Is this a viable person?
11:46
Are they, do they genuinely, are they going to want your product
11:48
or are you just hoping that they want your product?
11:50
Right. You got to get to the right
11:52
person who's actually can, can, can buy it and you have to ask
11:56
them if they want to see it. If you want to see the Pre can't
11:58
buy anything from somebody if you don't actually see the
12:00
product and see it work. And then you, you better put on
12:03
a Broadway show for your demonstration.
12:05
Like, there's no, there's no half ass and anything.
12:07
You better really get into it. And you want this thing to hum
12:10
and be awesome. And then, you know, you got to
12:12
build rapport with them and you got to ask for the business.
12:15
You got to ask them to buy it, right.
12:16
At the end of the day, like, nothing.
12:17
Nobody's going to be like, I guess, like, like, please let me
12:19
buy this from you. Like, no, you got to ask, like,
12:21
hey, will you start using this? Will you buy this?
12:22
Right. And then yeah, you have to sell
12:25
yourself. You have to sell like it goes
12:27
back to like I said, the physical fitness like who you
12:29
are and like how you look in that presentation is extremely
12:33
important, right. You better take care of
12:34
yourself. You better.
12:36
You know, I was, I'm a big believer of you know, making
12:39
sure you look and good as as, as good as you possibly can, right.
12:43
And then you know, selling, you know your your, your company and
12:46
you're selling the, the, the features invented that benefits
12:49
and then you're you're like you and your company, your
12:51
commitment to excellence. You want to be the best that
12:54
that's that is a major, important thing.
12:56
I think in a in a sales process you always want to work with
12:59
somebody who wants to be the best.
13:02
Yeah, I'm looking at your LinkedIn page and I see a number
13:05
of sales awards that you've won. You're consistently at the top
13:09
of your company and performance. Would it be safe to say that
13:13
people had you pick for success from an early age, got straight
13:17
age, was always on the honor roll?
13:21
Not even close. I barely graduated high school.
13:24
I got kicked out of college. I had a fun time at college, but
13:28
I got kicked out. And then I finally did graduate.
13:32
And then I traveled around in my car for a while playing golf.
13:35
And for like 3 years the only time I wrote my writing was my
13:39
name on a scorecard. So I didn't, like, do anything
13:41
else. And then I just started to get
13:44
into it. And then I grew up and then I
13:45
figured out how to do this and then I just paid attention and
13:48
and got good. So, you know, I'm a I'm I'm a
13:51
testament that that your grades in school do not mean how
13:55
successful you're going to be in in life.
13:58
You know, and I feel like that's not entirely uncommon, A number
14:01
of great sales reps, I know in fact a number of really
14:05
successful business owners too. They struggled at school.
14:09
They were not great students for one reason or another.
14:13
Why do you? Why do you think that is?
14:14
I mean, I've got my own theory on why people who didn't perform
14:18
sort of early on and in in the measured ways that society
14:22
expects are now some of the most successful people career wise.
14:27
I believe that school is set up for you to go.
14:32
You go, you view as you think about the process of the kid,
14:35
right? We go, we, we send our kids to
14:36
school and they sit there and they have a person stand in
14:39
front of them and that person in front of them tells them what
14:43
their, their, their view of the facts are.
14:46
And then you have to be your student.
14:48
You're then sitting there and you have to repeat all that
14:51
information back and you're constantly being, you're
14:55
basically just, I don't want to say this like you're constantly
14:59
just giving that person the information, taking orders,
15:02
basically. It's all that you're really
15:03
doing. You're not really, like thinking
15:05
for yourself in school. That's not how we set it up.
15:07
You're just giving them information back to the teacher,
15:09
right? So I think that keeps on going
15:11
through life. So if you're really good at at
15:13
listening to what somebody says and then repeating it back to
15:16
them on a test, you can do very, very good in school.
15:19
But if you're the type of person who sits there and listens to
15:21
the, listens to the teacher and says that doesn't make any
15:23
sense, like, I think there's a smarter, better way of doing
15:26
that, then all of a sudden you start putting that stuff on a
15:28
test. Your grades aren't A's.
15:30
Your grades are C's, right. So what's the old saying?
15:33
Right. The C's own the company.
15:35
The B's manage the company and the A's work at the company,
15:39
right. The kids who like the kids who
15:40
get as in school. Just because they get As in
15:43
school doesn't mean that they're they're brilliant.
15:45
And they most a lot of those people are like doctors, right?
15:49
Who do doctors work for hospitals, right.
15:53
And who owns the hospital? Shareholders who are smart, who
15:55
are Pisces, you know students. They own the companies.
15:58
So I think it's it's a it's a process through life that we go
16:01
through. Yeah, I think business owners
16:04
and successful salespeople, you know, they're, they're doers by
16:09
nature, right? And to some degree they're risk
16:11
takers. And obviously it's a gross over
16:14
generalization and certainly not always true.
16:16
But I've seen, you know, some people be very book smart and
16:21
kind of feel comfortable behind a book, right?
16:24
But maybe not as comfortable dealing with people and solving
16:28
people problems, which I think, you know, successful business
16:31
owners and successful salespeople need to do.
16:34
Do you think that people who become good at, you know, like
16:38
they they go to school and they get A's right?
16:41
So they never actually have to? Like, they're just they're just
16:45
constantly taught through their life that they're smart because
16:47
they're getting these good grades.
16:48
They never actually have to stop and think a different way.
16:54
I think that would be a gross generalization.
16:56
I think that that certainly applies to some people, but I
16:59
know people who have been very successful in high school and
17:02
college and that has spilled over into, you know, their
17:05
professional careers as well. Meaning like no no not that they
17:09
won't be successful but that they they are versus I think I
17:14
think like when you're in sales or a business owner you're
17:17
you're you're you're never locked into an answer you're
17:19
always like OK well then like I can I'm I'm very flexible on
17:22
what different ways are right because we're you've got a
17:25
different mindset. Yeah.
17:27
Versus like I think people who are very good in school like
17:29
they're like Nope this is the way that it is.
17:31
I'm I know this, I've studied it.
17:33
I read it in a book and I'm like I'm not going to question what I
17:36
what I read in those books because it has to be right type
17:39
of. Thing Yeah, maybe they're a
17:40
little bit more rule followers Where?
17:42
Yeah, that's a good way. Together into the spectrum,
17:44
they're a little bit more rule Breakers, yeah.
17:47
They're willing to crack the great way.
17:49
Yeah. Let's touch on some unusual
17:52
projects that you've taken part in.
17:55
You'd mentioned something to me before we started about
17:58
reimbursement program that you were working with the Governor
18:02
of Ohio on. Yeah.
18:04
So then you know I found out that Medicare like Medicare
18:09
Advantage patients were in the state of Ohio or are are taken
18:13
advantage of for lack of a better way of saying it.
18:17
So I not Long story short I ended up contacting the governor
18:21
of Ohio. I got his e-mail from an
18:23
orthopaedic meeting he was at and he we started having
18:26
conversations and I end up meeting with the Department of
18:29
Insurance and they did some investigation into these
18:31
insurance companies and it turns out the insurance companies
18:35
admitted to knowingly denying procedures to patients because
18:40
of a Gray area in the law and because of the Gray area in the
18:43
law the insurance companies allowed to to deny patients for
18:48
procedures for patients. They they know that they should
18:51
and they verbally admitted to doing this but they would not
18:55
you know put it in writing So you know that was a big thing
18:58
and I I did a big thing in the state of Ohio to petition mutual
19:02
medical of Ohio of to get a procedure covered.
19:06
I I worked with societies a national society for pain
19:09
management and a state society. And you know Long story short my
19:14
my company the same time I needed to to get the signature
19:18
of support from the president of a national society.
19:20
My company unknowingly didn't we didn't support their their
19:24
national meeting and save $50,000 and so they never talked
19:29
to us again. So then it's all ended.
19:31
So there's the the difference between being a business owner
19:34
who's in control of their business and then they're
19:36
working for a company is is right there.
19:40
That had to have been very frustrating.
19:41
I mean, what you're describing, how you sort of climbed up the
19:45
chain to work with the governor's office and got one of
19:48
the big insurance companies to admit this malfeasance is the
19:54
way, you know, sort of the way you describe it, that that in
19:57
itself is a pretty big accomplishment.
19:59
And you had a path to sort of righting this wrong.
20:03
And it feels like your company kind of pulled the rug out from
20:06
under you, even though this is something that would have
20:08
benefited them. Oh yeah, Oh yeah, like yeah, it
20:12
would have changed completely our stock price and like
20:16
millions of dollars and they just, yeah, they they to be fair
20:21
I was doing the the job of a vice president of the company
20:24
and my job at the same time. And it's funny, last week I gave
20:28
this presentation. I what everything I did to our
20:30
new national sales manager and I director of marketing, who's
20:34
taken on the reimbursement and I showed him everything that I
20:38
did. And then my prize was some
20:41
points through our point system which got me a windbreaker.
20:45
And then there's a joke because obviously it was it was like
20:48
worth nothing. But then they actually asked me
20:50
to have more detail and to put more way from work into it was
20:54
they they thought it was pretty interesting and I just got off
20:57
the phone and I said no, I'm not going to get anything.
20:59
Why would I, why would I do anything for you?
21:01
You don't want to, you don't want to pay me and you guys will
21:04
screw it up. So yeah, that's kind of how
21:06
corporate America works, right? Like you, you go out and do a
21:09
little bit extra to make it better.
21:11
You actually think of people and want to do a good thing and then
21:13
they they stomp on you. Wow, that's kind of squelch your
21:19
motivation to do your primary job for them.
21:23
You know a little bit. I I don't I don't do this job
21:26
for for them or you know I just I it's it's fun to hear patients
21:31
feel awesome and be able to go and exercise and get their life
21:35
back and and feel better. So like that's a big thing for
21:39
me. That's my #1.
21:40
So I think physical fitness is a blessing.
21:44
And I like when I was in the gym this morning at 5:30 and I was
21:49
on the peloton and I did not want to be there.
21:51
I said to myself, you are blessed to have the ability to
21:54
be on this peloton right now. And didn't I just power through
21:57
it like it's like and I and I if and you can give access to that
22:00
to people, I think it's a great gift.
22:04
That's why I do it. Let's talk on that for a moment
22:06
because we haven't actually gone into any detail about the device
22:09
that you sell. Can you describe that briefly?
22:13
Yeah, so it's a it's called cool leaf radiofrequency ablation and
22:17
and what it does is we have sensory nerves in our body that
22:20
send a signal to our brain for touch, right.
22:24
So like, but it's a pain signal. So from our back, our knee, our
22:27
hip, our shoulder, there's sensory nerves that send a
22:31
signal to our brain. If you you have pain and we all
22:33
have knee, we have like knee pain, back pain.
22:35
So we can put an electrical probe down to that spot where
22:39
the sensory nerves at but not near the motor nerve which would
22:42
be function. And we take that sensory nerve
22:45
and we can ablate it basically create a callus like you have on
22:47
your hand right now and create in that spot and it'll destroy
22:51
the nerve. So over time our our, you know
22:54
and like we don't take you from A10 to a zero but we'll take you
22:57
from an 8 to A2 on your pain level where you were eight.
23:01
You're not really getting out of bed.
23:02
You're in you're in tough spot versus two.
23:04
I've taken a leave every once once a week and I'm, I'm feeling
23:06
pretty good, right. Patient's pain comes back.
23:09
The nerves can regenerate but they can have this done every
23:12
six months. It takes 15 minutes and you
23:15
know, patients feel great. So you know, one of the side
23:18
effects of our knee procedure was that people thought their
23:21
knee was their knee osteoarthritis was gone.
23:25
Like they thought their knee was like from like when they were
23:27
like 5 years old and they went out and ran a time and actually
23:30
hurt themselves. Like that was our side effects
23:32
because people felt so good, they were actually doing too
23:34
much, they needed to do some physical therapy and strengthen
23:37
it back up for for a while. So that's that's in a nutshell
23:41
what it does. So you aren't selling to the end
23:45
customer, you're selling to the doctor that then recommends the
23:47
treatment to the patient. Do you still get to hear a lot
23:51
of the patients stories then? I do.
23:55
We had quite a few actually. And then my favorite one was
23:59
actually about four months ago. So I was in surgery and doctor
24:04
looks at me and goes, hey, so I got this really cool story.
24:07
So patient called him that week. This patient had seen had had 9
24:11
surgeries on her knee and after the 9th surgery she still had
24:15
pain and the orthopedic surgeon said look at this point now like
24:19
amputations really your only option to go so so she was like
24:25
she did not want to do that. She somehow she found out about
24:28
the doctor I work with and got a cool leaf and we were at the
24:33
four month mark. She got a phone.
24:34
He got a phone call that week that she was pain free at four
24:37
months and was like the happiest person in the world.
24:40
Like because of our product and the procedure that I sold, like
24:43
she did not have her leg amputated and from my last I
24:46
know she's still going strong. That's amazing.
24:49
I actually have a similar story to share of my own mother who
24:53
had chronic migraines for years. Decades has tried just about
24:59
every medication, every treatment out there.
25:02
And when she had the procedure done with this cool leaf device
25:07
that you're describing, it's the first time that I can remember
25:12
in her life where she, when I asked, hey mom, how's your
25:15
headaches today? And she's like, what headaches?
25:17
She's like, I feel great. So, yeah.
25:20
And as somebody who gets to sell that, who gets to bring that
25:24
sort of pain relief to people, I have to imagine aside from all
25:27
the sales commissions that you're working for, that that's
25:29
going to be really rewarding. 100% man, like like my number
25:34
one is the VA, right. Like my like we like I work in
25:37
the Cincinnati VA, the Dayton VA and if they need us, we never we
25:41
never miss it. We take care of those people
25:43
because they are the most difficult to treat.
25:45
These people have had just just tough things to go through and
25:49
their results are awesome. So like the the the only time
25:53
that I ever like really get upset about like somebody didn't
25:57
choose us. I lost the sale as a VA system,
26:00
like like it's just like helping those people is the best.
26:03
That's great. Let's let's find a difficult
26:07
experience that you've been through in your career.
26:10
Something that maybe you thought was going to be the end of your
26:13
career brought you to your knees.
26:15
Something really tough that you had to overcome that meets that
26:20
description. Yeah.
26:21
So my first time my company was running my company Medtronic,
26:27
who is a very large medical manufacturer like a couple $100
26:32
billion, purchased a product that is very similar to mine and
26:37
about two weeks before Christmas of like 2019, I think 2020, so
26:42
2019, maybe you know it's 2019. I got a phone call from my
26:47
largest customer that they were trialing this this product,
26:50
right. And we're talking like I can't
26:53
like my next year would have been I would have made very
26:56
little money and it had been tough.
26:58
So then I had to like really stop and like do a lot of
27:02
research on what was going on and try to figure it all out and
27:06
through a lot of speaking with other physicians there
27:08
understanding who this like what was going on.
27:10
They had a new physician there who was bringing them in.
27:13
He he was a a speaker for Medtronic too.
27:17
So he like was like getting pressured by them and Medtronic
27:20
does it like a a backwards way like trying to get in through
27:23
corporate accounts and they're pressuring Ohio State to use
27:26
their their product too. So I ended up meeting with every
27:31
physician at Ohio State. I put together a huge
27:34
presentation about who my company is versus like David
27:39
versus Goliath. And and not only did I get every
27:41
physician to want to work with us, they pressured the main
27:45
doctor into doing it where he called me one day.
27:49
He's like, hey man, you you guys are it like you know we we need
27:52
to like we're we're going to keep with you guys.
27:54
And since then I have like doubled the business.
27:56
We have huge contracts with them and that main Doctor Who was
28:00
almost switched is now a really good friend of mine.
28:04
So what did you tell them? What were you able to tell them
28:07
that, Hey, you guys should stick with us.
28:09
What was better about you? You know in our industry there
28:14
are different procedures every every physician has a a big book
28:18
of different procedures they can do right and they're in The
28:23
Medtronic is a very good at selling one type of a of a
28:27
procedure that I don't do, but I'm very good at mine.
28:30
And the big thing I told him was look like we do research, We, we
28:33
spend a lot of our money into, you know, research, developing
28:39
new products, making it better for the future and for their
28:42
reimbursement for this procedure versus everyone else does
28:45
nothing. So if they decide to, you know,
28:47
choose them, they can't. I mean, no one's stopping them
28:50
from doing that. But that's one less, that's a
28:52
million less dollars that's coming into US who are spending
28:56
that money on making their lives better, right.
28:59
And other companies not doing it.
29:01
And I'm a big believer when somebody's about when you're
29:02
making a big decision, you got to pull on those heartstrings
29:06
and get him to understand like this is bigger than me just
29:08
trying to save a little bit of money on a on a supply.
29:11
Like I'm really going to impact, you know who's my Rep who are
29:14
things because I told him I go you guys do this but you'll lose
29:17
me as a Rep like I won't be or no one will be around anymore
29:20
and you know you'll have no one really helping you do this.
29:23
And once they and I, I, I showed them the big picture of what it
29:27
was and not just the cost savings.
29:29
And I think that was where they really understood wow we we need
29:32
this. And you know, not only did we
29:34
save it, you know, no one else has really switched over to
29:37
those guys to to Medtronic and my territory, because I think
29:40
they kind of all just knew that we've, you know, we're we're
29:44
really good at what we do. How has that played out in some
29:48
of the other territories? Has your company been successful
29:51
in defending the territory, or is Medtronic been encroaching?
29:55
No, they've been encroached on different reps because they're
29:57
just they're just newer. We've our company's had a hard
29:59
time keeping reps over the years.
30:02
I've just good have been here for a while.
30:04
So like I was able to to keep it.
30:05
But no, they've they've stolen a decent bit of business from us
30:09
and it's been a little bit of an issue.
30:11
But I I, you know, I think there's like a couple of big
30:14
accounts in like the Carolinas. OK, how do you overcome negative
30:20
chatter in your head? Negative voices?
30:22
You can't do this. It'll never work.
30:24
Who do you think you are? Do you have some of that when
30:26
you were going through that whole thing with Medtronic?
30:28
Like, maybe this is it. Like this is just all going to
30:31
unravel. Yeah, You know, I wouldn't call
30:38
it negative chatter. I would call it like my brain
30:43
won't stop working until I figure it out, right.
30:47
Like I don't I don't ever sit here and say like have negative
30:50
things in my brain. I'm always just like no, no, no,
30:52
I'll figure it out. I will get it like and then I
30:55
just it just takes me time. I just haven't figured it out
30:57
yet. I'm a big believer in that And
31:00
so it was it wasn't more of like crap.
31:03
I suck. It was more of like how am I,
31:05
how am I going to fix this right.
31:08
And then I just would I wouldn't sleep.
31:10
I would just like be up all I would like.
31:11
How am I going to do it Until I played out the whole recreated a
31:14
whole big game plan for and then once I did that, you know it
31:18
worked. I love that because when I find
31:22
myself in similar situations, I find if I can coach myself to
31:26
approach it from a place of curiosity, that a lot of the
31:30
worry and the stress starts to subside.
31:34
I put on my creative thinking cap and I try to look at it as
31:38
an opportunity, right where what are the pieces of the puzzle
31:43
that I need to put together here in order to turn this challenge
31:46
into a successful situation? Yeah.
31:49
And so that's exactly what you're describing.
31:52
It's funny when I I'm teaching my son about golf and he gets a
31:57
bad shot and he's, you know, 10. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm
32:01
learning how to get him to understand this.
32:03
But I go the best golf shots I've ever hit in my life were
32:07
right after one of the worst golf shots I've ever hit in my
32:10
life. And it is a whole, it's a big
32:13
thing of life, right? Some of like your your best
32:16
moments are are during times when it's the biggest stress
32:20
that came through. If you figured it out how to do
32:22
this right, you don't, you don't remember the easy wins.
32:24
You really remember the ones that were the hardest to get,
32:26
'cause you really had to use your brain to to figure it all
32:28
out. The process is what's really
32:30
cool. You know, I tell my kids, if
32:33
you're doing it right, you are always learning new things.
32:37
I'm curious, how do you keep your mind fresh?
32:40
What do you do to keep learning every day?
32:44
Well I need to do more. I don't.
32:48
I really don't. I I'm, I'm, I'm lazy.
32:50
I have AI wish I read more. I I I need to commit more and
32:55
get off my phone and at night. It's a big thing for me.
33:00
I wish I read more of our studies and and got better at
33:02
it. To be fair I should quit my job.
33:05
IA 100% should be on. I should go do something else.
33:09
I should challenge myself and and go do it.
33:12
But I don't because I don't. I because I I guess for me, I
33:16
still play amateur golf events for me.
33:18
And when I look back at my year of 2023, I don't.
33:21
I couldn't care less that I got sick first or second place in my
33:25
company. But I do care that I got a bunch
33:27
of top 10s in golf tournaments and I kept myself in physical
33:30
shape and able to compete against these kids.
33:32
So, like, that's what I do care about, right?
33:34
So like, I'm always, I guess when I like I I It's funny when
33:38
you ask the question I I took it to work.
33:40
But I'm constantly trying to figure out how to get better at
33:43
golf and working on it and and keep going there, and I don't
33:46
put any any effort into my my job to to to make myself better.
33:51
Why do you think that is? Why?
33:53
Why do you think that? I mean, initially your
33:55
competitive spirit from golf was translated really well into
33:59
helping with your sales career. And now it sounds like you've
34:03
kind of lost some of that excitement or enthusiasm for it,
34:07
but you still really have it for the sports side, for the golf.
34:13
Yeah, I think it's like 100% on the golf side.
34:15
Like, I love the challenge, like this golf world of like when you
34:19
have friends that are in the golf world and you you play in
34:23
these tournaments against these guys, they're all like the the
34:26
level. Like people don't genuinely
34:28
understand how serious like Midian, like when I say Midian
34:32
golf like or amateur golf, how serious people take it.
34:36
Like Like these dudes are awesome and like to go and be
34:39
able to beat them at the age of 47 when they're 20 is is like it
34:44
keeps me going right. I do it for a lot but like it's
34:45
it's it's it's really hard to to to try to go and beat them and
34:49
and constantly getting better And yeah I mean like it's really
34:53
really cool but you know for my work wise you know to be fair I
34:56
like I don't quit or leave because it allows me to play
34:59
golf in the summer and it's like I don't like like quality of
35:02
life is the only reason I'm still at my company.
35:05
Like I I could go and do it, but then if I went and and part of
35:09
it is like like when I'm in surgery I have to read
35:12
fluoroscopy which is instant X-rays.
35:15
So I'm really good at it. I'm like really, really good at
35:18
it and like, so that skill isn't something I can just take over
35:22
to doing another procedure and it makes me so needed in the
35:26
operating room or or my they really like having me there, the
35:30
physician to help. That's like, why why screw that
35:35
up, right. It's like the the old adage,
35:37
like, you know, you pay a lawyer now for like might pay a lawyer
35:40
like $1000 an hour for something.
35:42
And like why is it so expensive? Like well, you're not paying for
35:44
me for my time now. You're paying me for all the
35:46
time I took to learn me to learn all this knowledge, right, Like
35:50
in the previous like. So that's kind of why I stay do.
35:53
You have any favorite pieces of software or other tools that you
35:57
feel like are really helpful to your sales success?
36:03
We have, I mean I like Salesforce.com.
36:08
We have a software called show pad where I can send an e-mail
36:11
out and then I can see if you open it, I can see if you read
36:14
it, I can see how long you actually spent on it.
36:17
So if I send out 10 emails in a day and two open it, then I know
36:21
the next day where to go on target.
36:24
So that that, I think that's anything that makes my day more
36:26
efficient. How about any resources for
36:32
learning like master class or Linda or any sites like that
36:38
that you use to just kind of tickle different parts of your
36:42
brain? Yeah, I've used master class.
36:45
I think it's fantastic. I think the Chris boss, master
36:49
negotiator, FBI negotiator was was fantastic.
36:53
But to be fair, I didn't use it as much as I should have, right?
36:57
Some of us if I wasn't too interested in, but I should do
37:00
more. Yeah, like, I will sit here
37:02
today and be like, you know what?
37:03
Tonight I am going to go read. And then around 8:00, I will
37:07
turn my phone on and watch golf videos on Instagram.
37:10
And then I'll go to bed. And then tomorrow I'll do the
37:12
same exact thing. So you your motivation really
37:16
comes from you want to beat those other guys on the course
37:20
that you know, you're not so motivated to be the number one
37:25
salesperson versus the number two or three in your company.
37:27
That doesn't really seem to drive you as much.
37:29
Like you're not trying to beat the other sales people as much
37:32
as you're trying to beat the guys in the golf course well.
37:35
I'm not trying to beat the guys in the golf.
37:37
I mean, it's fun that you compete against other guys,
37:39
you're competing against them. But dominating a golf course is
37:44
truly one of the greatest feelings in the entire world.
37:48
And I wish that people could experience it because it's so
37:52
difficult. And when you can actually start
37:55
to get like you know 678 under par on a golf course which is
37:59
like extremely rare for people like they've never you know
38:02
night and like we're like it's I don't even know what percents
38:05
been able to do that but it's it's it's extremely low off the
38:09
charts. Right.
38:09
And like, and I'm very blessed that I got to do that.
38:11
But like, I get to deal with you.
38:12
But, like, I work so hard at it to get back there again because
38:15
it's like this euphoria that your your brain is in that, like
38:19
nothing's going wrong. And then and then the next day
38:23
you'll go play and you'll play terrible.
38:26
And then you go home and you're like, I can't, I can't And your
38:29
brain can't understand why. And adjusted, you can literally
38:33
dominate a golf course. And the very next day the golf
38:35
course beats you. And it's just the most
38:37
fascinating game in the world. So you're interested more you're
38:41
excited or motivated more by beating the course than you are
38:44
beating the other golfers? Yeah, golf is this.
38:49
It's a game where the ball sits still.
38:53
Everyone who plays has the feeling that they can.
38:56
This should. This should be easy, and it is
38:59
the most madding game in the entire world.
39:01
You you strive for perfection and it's impossible, but
39:06
everyone believes that they can do it.
39:10
Are there specific books or mentors that have helped shape
39:14
your professional career? Yeah, my dad has been very
39:21
instrumental for teaching me investing and different things.
39:25
That was that was very crucial. And then I had a guy when I had
39:30
the job, I met now he originally hired me to come in.
39:34
I was contract labor and he's like, I haven't talked to him in
39:38
a long time. He's been, you know, very good.
39:42
But a lot of it's just, you know, friends, you know,
39:44
speaking. And I'm always curious on just
39:46
learning people's different businesses and hearing how they
39:49
approach things and feeling little bits from everybody that
39:52
I talked to and and using them. What's something you wish you
39:56
could teach the 20 year old version of Mike?
40:01
Something that's clear to you now that wasn't so back then.
40:07
Drugs are bad. No, that is a serious answer.
40:12
Drugs are bad. Grow up and you know, I I I wish
40:20
I had like like yeah, yeah, just just grow up, OK.
40:27
I had a real shot. I could have been on the tour.
40:29
I was talent wise. I was good enough to be on the
40:31
tour, but maturity wise I was a 12 year old out there.
40:37
As you think about either your professional career or your golf
40:40
game, since that's such a big passion of yours, what would you
40:44
define as your biggest area of need right now?
40:49
For. For either your sales career or
40:54
for your golf passion, what's something that you want to
40:59
actively work on to improve? I I want to work on my golf game
41:06
more because I think I have a legit chance at playing some
41:10
really awesome senior events and I'm going to be 50 here in three
41:14
years and even some mid am so I like So what I need is to be
41:19
fired from my job. That's an honest answer.
41:22
I I I legitimately need to be fired from my job because I'm
41:26
too complacent and I'm too comfortable and comfort is the
41:31
aggressive what is it the the aging is the aggressive secret
41:34
of of comfort. So like, you know, I need to
41:37
get, I need to get uncomfortable and I'm not uncomfortable right
41:40
now and it's, it's an issue. You got to shake up the snow
41:43
globe somehow, huh? Yep, I do.
41:46
But you know, hard to do. Just one more question for you,
41:53
but before I ask it, how can people get in touch with you
41:57
people listening to this episode?
41:58
And hey, Mike's an interesting guy.
41:59
I'd like to connect with him. You can find me on LinkedIn,
42:03
Michael Schonk and then you can always e-mail me at
42:08
michael.schonk2@gmail.com. More than welcome, I guess.
42:12
The the two two main ways. Great.
42:16
OK. Last question, Mike, How do you
42:17
see the industry that you're currently working in evolving in
42:20
the next 5 to 10 years? Boy, so it's funny.
42:34
I work in the medical industry and most of my patients are
42:37
obese or overweight and that I see and they're in pain.
42:42
They just can't figure it out. But you know and when I, when I,
42:46
when I look at it, I'm as like all I ever tell people is go
42:50
exercise and feel awesome, right.
42:52
Do it every single day. You are blessed to have a body
42:55
that works and functions. You only get one in your life.
42:57
So take care of it and go do it. But I make money on people who
43:00
don't, right? It's like I'm I'm a complete
43:03
hypocrite when it comes to to work right.
43:05
Like not everyone like no. But like most of the people that
43:08
that I see are are not doing the right things in their life to to
43:12
feel better, right. So when I look at like the
43:15
medical industry in the next like 5 or 10 years we are at, I
43:19
in my opinion like it's it's going to bankrupt the United
43:22
States. If you look around major cities
43:26
around our country, every major city you go to, there's only
43:29
really two businesses that are growing.
43:30
It's either tech or hospitals, right.
43:34
And they are growing and growing and growing.
43:36
That's where all the money goes and I don't see it it ever
43:41
ending. Like like I see that medical
43:46
device companies are going to keep getting pinched because
43:48
reimbursements keep going lower because insurance companies are
43:53
don't have the money to keep paying out these huge huge
43:56
payments. Medicare is basically broke and
43:59
the Medicare actually pays insurance companies to manage
44:01
their patients. So I I see like less.
44:05
I don't know if you want to say less quality healthcare, but
44:08
like less device companies just don't have the money to keep
44:11
developing new things to keep going forward.
44:14
The the system needs, we need someone new in charge who can
44:18
has a different philosophy on on how to do things.
44:21
Right. Thanks for sharing, Mike.
44:24
That's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
44:28
Thanks for learning with me today.