Latest / The Layback Podcast / Brandon Golden, Owner/Director of Ghost Lab NC and Carolina Ghost Baseball (Ep. 52)

Transcript

Brandon Golden, Owner/Director of Ghost Lab NC and Carolina Ghost Baseball (Ep. 52) · The Layback Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, welcome back to the Lay Back podcast.
• 0:03
  Joining us today is Brandon Golden.
• 0:05
  Of course we're going to give it to him for his intro, but I want
• 0:09
  to tell a quick little story of the role Brandon has played in
• 0:15
  where Flexpro Grip is now today. I don't know how much Brandon
• 0:19
  knows this story or how valuable he might be to kind of our
• 0:24
  history or our path, but one of the Super valuable things that
• 0:29
  he did for us is at the Wake Forest Bridge seminar.
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  At the time, Brandon was nice enough to come say hi to Gavin
• 0:37
  and I, and he included us on an invite to dinner with some of
• 0:42
  the bigwigs of the seminar. So the Robin Lund was there,
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  Desi Druskel was there, Sam Breen was there, if I'm not
• 0:49
  mistaken, the Wake Forest pitching staff and Jimmy, Buffy,
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  and Brandon giving us the invite gave us a platform to talk a
• 0:57
  little bit about what we do. Next thing you know, we're in
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  Moose's kitchen doing Flex Pro Grip presentations at midnight.
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  And lo and behold, we got started with Wake Forest later
• 1:08
  that year. And if it wasn't for friendship
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  or a helping hand from Brandon, I, I don't know if we would have
• 1:16
  some of these relationships that we have today.
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  So thanks a ton for that. Trust me, Brandon, I always try
• 1:21
  to share that story and how much it means to us because it was
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  super helpful. Didn't want to embarrass you off
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  the RIP for just being a good person, but I figured that was
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  more valuable than me reciting every stop you've had in your
• 1:33
  career. So with that, now, I'll pass it
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  over to you. Yeah.
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  Man, that's Adam. That's super cool.
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  Thanks. Thanks for having me.
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  I have not heard that story. And yeah, I do remember that.
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  That's man, that's awesome. I remember just being like, hey
• 1:44
  dude, like y'all to come hang out and we're about to go get
• 1:46
  dinner and man, it's really amazing how you can be in
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  situations like that. And I've I've had similar people
• 1:52
  do things like that for me. So I'm so happy that shoot, I
• 1:56
  was able to do something something so small turn into
• 1:58
  something so big. So that's super cool.
• 2:00
  Had the opportunity to be a college strength coach for
• 2:02
  almost 10 years. Had stops at when I graduated
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  from East Carolina. I came back home, was at High
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  Point, Mississippi State, Wake Forest, up to St.
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  John's, Charleston, southern East Carolina and then the Los
• 2:14
  Angeles Dodgers. So had a pretty extensive career
• 2:16
  in collegiate and professional sports.
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  Got to learn a lot of different things along the way.
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  Talked about Moose core mascara. Current pitching coach at Wake
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  Forest. Taught me a lot about the game
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  of baseball during my time at Saint John's.
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  So I played the cross growing up, played basketball when I was
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  younger. I got to Saint John's and he
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  just taught me a lot. It was like, look, dude, like I
• 2:36
  need you to be good just like he does with everybody else.
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  Just like all great leaders do, like a Cliff did when I was at
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  East Carolina. Hey man, that we need you to be
• 2:42
  elite at these things. Like one of the things the Moose
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  did with me, especially my first year as Aga there, we would just
• 2:47
  would watch video. So we would watch video.
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  Look, this is what I'm looking for.
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  And then my role as a support staff, I've always looked at
• 2:56
  what is the sport coach trying to accomplish, whether that's
• 2:59
  volleyball, basketball, baseball, obviously to this
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  point where we're at in my career, but that that's always
• 3:05
  been the biggest kicker for me. It's like, how can I support
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  what they're trying to accomplish?
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  So that's, you know, a little bit about where I've been.
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  And now we have the ghost lab here.
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  We have some travel teams, have a facility.
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  I still consult with Wake, with UMBC, I'm with my buddies, with
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  Five TC, we work with Appalachian State, Cal State
• 3:21
  Fullerton. There's a lot of lot of growth
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  and development and a lot of stuff going on, kind of like we
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  were talking about before we got this thing going, Adam.
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  But yeah, man, just super excited to be here, super
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  humbled and a little taken back. I didn't realize that I had that
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  big of an impact, but man, that's so cool because there's
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  been a lot of people that have done something small for me that
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  have turned into something really cool.
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  So I'm glad we could do that for you guys.
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  Of course, man, it really does mean the world and it shows who
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  you are as a person. So I feel anybody that is able
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  to work with you, whether it's in Ghost or some of the other
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  work you're doing, I think they're in great hands.
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  But now let's get into the nitty gritty.
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  I'm done making you feel like a great person.
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  And now we're going to talk about some arm care, some
• 4:03
  performance stuff, but maybe a great spot to jump off.
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  You talked about your role as support staff.
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  Maybe that gets missed on some people where you're serving as a
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  high performance coach or strength coach, depending on
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  which org you're with and what fancy title they give you.
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  I would love to know maybe what support staff means to you
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  because I, I heard you say that on previous podcast of
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  describing yourself as such. So please just take that away.
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  What does it mean to be support staff to you?
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  Yeah, I think it man it it's, it's changed probably since the
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  last time I've said some of those things.
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  I think one of the biggest things is now in my role here,
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  like I'm supporting professional players in their career.
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  I'm supporting 10 year olds in their development and families
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  and just understanding what it is.
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  What course are they taking? Those are playing travel
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  baseball. Are they not playing travel
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  baseball? Are they training?
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  Like what is it that they're doing?
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  And then obviously with the colleges that I consult with and
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  kind of mentioned a little bit about the the professional
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  players that that we work with, supporting them, speaking with
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  their agents, like just being able to overall kind of take
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  care of people. I think is is what it comes down
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  to is like taking care of people, being able to
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  communicate and understand what it is that the desire, whether
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  that's from the player, from the head coach, from the pitching
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  coach, from the hitting coach, like understanding what it is
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  that they need from the player or from themselves to be
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  successful and ultimately support themselves and their
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  career and continue to develop and get better as a player or as
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  an organization. So I think that's probably the
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  best definition that I have for it, is just really taking care
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  of people. That sounds perfect to me.
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  And I'm sure a large piece of that is communication or really
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  the goal setting the mission. You talked about your experience
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  with Moose at Saint John's and he kind of took you under his
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  wing to an extent to look at video.
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  I'd, I'd now love if you could go into that a little bit, talk
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  about what you guys were looking at, maybe what he was trying to
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  educate you on. And then maybe what feedback you
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  could offer him of where you could step up and say like, oh,
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  I can make a difference here or that's not as much going to be
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  me, but we can address this in another capacity.
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  Yes, absolutely. And to that point, like to the
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  first point before we get to that, it's like it's all about
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  developing relationships and it's all about like how like
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  that's one thing that I think is taking me really far in my
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  career is like being able to like to read people develop
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  relationships and knowing when to push a player and when not
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  to. And I and I haven't always been
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  great at that. Obviously that's trial and
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  error. But to your point about Moose
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  and some of the things that we did at Saint John's, it was
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  literally every day. It was an office about this size
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  where there's four coaches in there.
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  And then I'd pop in there with a little desk in between Blankie
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  and Moose and we would sit there and chop stuff up.
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  But it would be, you know, really like, Hey, I need so and
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  so to be able to hold, you know, he's flying open.
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  I need to be able to hold counter rotation.
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  I'm like, well, probably an anti rotation press would work
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  because he's flying up and he can't control.
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  Like what are some certain things that I can do in the
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  weight room as a strength coach that can be one.
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  Give them the capacity to do what they're asking to do or
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  like create an environment for them to learn the skill.
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  If it's it's a skill based thing and they just aren't capable of
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  doing it. That was when like we would sit
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  there and look at video and I'd say, OK, like, all right, I see
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  what you're looking at. We're looking at X player.
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  We need to work on core stability or whatever it is or
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  just overall strength and power. That's a that's a real thing
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  too. So like being able to look at
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  that and just try to keep it as simple as possible and implement
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  some of those things in the weight room.
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  And then it turned into Matt Blake was up at Cressy's place.
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  I'm up in mass like great people, Eric, Matt, awesome
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  people. Eric Schoenberg, their their PT
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  at the time up there with, with Moose's connection.
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  He was like, hey, dude, like I got this opportunity for you to
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  go up to Eric's upper body mentorship, like and just learn
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  like how he does stuff. And I'm like, yeah, sign me up.
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  So I walked in and I told my boss at the time was like, hey,
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  I'm going to this thing. I'm going to miss like a Friday.
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  I think I missed like a women's soccer group and like something
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  else. And he's like, I'm not sure if
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  that's going to work. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure
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  I'm already going like blank some moves like, yeah, I don't
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  really know. So I was kind of caught in the
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  middle there. But.
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  And that's another, you know, learning thing of, you know,
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  just learning how to communicate with people and understanding,
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  you know, just your role in different organizations.
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  Yeah, we got to go up there, learn from those guys and just
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  really listen. Anybody who's listen to Eric
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  Cressy talks understands how smart and how intelligent and
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  when he's not in the situation and built the business and with
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  the Yankees and doing the things that he's doing without being a
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  super intelligent person. So being able to listen to him,
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  listen to Matt Blake, how he talks about things, listen to
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  Eric Schoenberg, just the whole CSP team at the time, like what
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  they were looking at. And I based then I went back to
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  Saint John's and say, OK, like, how can I take what they were
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  doing there and how can I implement that into what we're
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  doing here and learning there. And then as I grew and as I went
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  to different places and then with the Dodgers, like being
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  able to understand different things and different substance
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  of your coordination, strength, power.
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  How does all of this stuff that we're doing, how do you
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  implement it and how does it improve performance or how does
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  it hurt performance? So like at the time, if we were
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  doing ankle mobility, like everybody was doing ankle
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  mobility to where like sometimes somebody needs ankle stability
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  on the left leg or they maybe need ankle mobility on the
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  right. So if you're just doing things
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  because bilaterally you think that's the right thing to do,
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  that's not always the best thing to do.
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  And I can actually make a player worse or potentially injure
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  them. So I think one of the biggest
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  things that we did there was like Moose would just I mean,
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  and you know how he is, he's like, yo, I need this dude to
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  hold this better. So boom, can't got it.
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  Like very specific that you know what you're getting, Like I know
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  what I'm looking for. They're like same thing like
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  East Carolina Clifford, like, hey, I need this, this barrel
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  needs to be through the zone longer.
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  Cool. I understand that.
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  Like, OK, let me go conceptually on my side and figure out how to
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  make that happen. So I think kudos to those guys
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  for understanding what they needed on the baseball side
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  because it made it very clear. And then it gave me an
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  opportunity to go, OK, let me go figure this out now, how do I
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  make this happen? Like I understand what they need
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  now. Now what do I do?
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  I think at times in a lot of sports, sometimes the sport
• 10:05
  coaches don't know exactly what they need to say.
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  Well, I need that to look better, right?
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  Of course, of course we need to look better than we need it to
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  be better. But what exactly does that mean?
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  And I think over the course of time, like being able to
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  understand that and then now kind of in some of the roles
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  that I'm at now, being able to offer those ideas like, hey,
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  would it be helpful if X player had the ability to do AB and C?
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  And it's like, well, yeah, hell yeah.
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  It would be like, let's figure out how to make that happen.
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  So that's a long winded answer, but I think I think we covered
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  it there. Yeah, and don't feel bad about
• 10:38
  any long winded answers, seeing how this is a podcast about you.
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  So we'll be OK with that. For for all I care you can you
• 10:45
  can just have the mic and talk for the next 45.
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  Minutes. Fair enough.
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  Yeah, makes for, makes for every sense.
• 10:51
  Yep, but first I want to call out the hand motions during your
• 10:57
  quick little Moose impersonation.
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  Spot. On I I wanted to jut in right
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  there like that. Yo, my guy right here needs oh,
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  I I saw it right away, like in passing to like walking past me,
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  like, yeah, this fucking guy needs to be able to do that.
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  I'm like, Yep, I'm on it, I'm on it.
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  Or, or sometimes it'd be like, hey, like show them what we just
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  did. I've already done that shit like
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  relax yourself. You go worry about something
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  else. And that's like what?
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  And like my relationship with him, militia with the players,
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  like relationship with these Carolina staff, like Palumbo,
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  everybody like Jason Dietrich, like that's what it all comes
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  down to. It's like the trust in you as
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  the performance coach or you like that you're, you're
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  understanding what they're saying.
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  And sometimes you, you just know what they want and you can go
• 11:40
  implement it because there's certain times where it's like
• 11:42
  they can't, especially nowadays, like there's the pretty much
• 11:45
  general managers. If you, if you're a head coach
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  in high level baseball, you're pretty much a general manager at
• 11:48
  this point. So like having somebody in your
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  corner that understands what it is that you like as a hidden
• 11:55
  coach or a pitching coach or as a overall head coach, and then
• 11:58
  going out and just doing it and getting it done for him.
• 12:02
  You talked about these interactions where whether it
• 12:06
  was Moose or another coach you worked with mentioned a guy
• 12:10
  struggling in a certain position or you need them or they need
• 12:14
  this individual to achieve a desired action.
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  Like you said, keep the bat in his own longer or whatever, keep
• 12:19
  the front shoulder more towards home plate for a longer period
• 12:22
  of time as they're coming down the slope.
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  I didn't expect to go this route, but I, I'm kind of happy
• 12:28
  it came up now. Where do you kind of draw the
• 12:32
  line between the dangers of quote UN quote, sports specific
• 12:37
  training versus a specified approach to help an athlete with
• 12:43
  a movement quality or a position that they really need to be in
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  to have success? As opposed to just like
• 12:50
  attaching a band to their arm as they're going through their
• 12:54
  throwing motion? Obviously that's a, that's a
• 12:56
  gross over exaggeration of where this stuff goes, but of course
• 13:00
  you're going to open Instagram and see that kind of stuff.
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  So I, I'd love if you could kind of talk to us about your
• 13:08
  approach when it comes to maybe position specific training or
• 13:12
  skill specific training as opposed to quote, UN quote
• 13:16
  sports. Specific training yeah no, I
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  think that's AI think that pretty much explains my thought
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  process on it really is like the generalization of range of
• 13:25
  motion like do they have the capacity to split their pelvis
• 13:28
  and straight leg raise internal external rotation T spine
• 13:31
  mobility or stability like how do they move overall as a person
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  and then giving that like for example, we do a straight leg
• 13:38
  raise, we test that we like to see it as close to 90° as
• 13:40
  possible like if it's in the 50s like their lower body bilateral
• 13:45
  pushing motion should probably be in a split position because
• 13:48
  they can't split their pelvis. So I just little things like
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  that is it is a way to do that. I owe my thought process and
• 13:54
  that stuff to to the Dodgers organization.
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  And you know, Brian Stoneberg and Carl Kosher and all those
• 14:00
  guys there that were my coordinators that really
• 14:02
  hammered that into me and then taught me in a way that it
• 14:06
  wasn't always the way that I wanted to hear it.
• 14:09
  I mean, it was, you know, and then Brandon McDaniel, like
• 14:12
  whenever I came from East Carolina, he he really taught me
• 14:16
  like, look like what you've done in college is great, but like
• 14:18
  this is a different thing. And really being able to
• 14:21
  understand how different professional baseball was and
• 14:24
  just that there's not one way to do things.
• 14:26
  But there's a very simplistic way to train specificity without
• 14:32
  ripping a band and doing all those silly things that we were
• 14:34
  just talking about. But it's making the general
• 14:37
  things really, really good because if they're at that
• 14:40
  level, if I'm working with somebody in Glendale, like as a
• 14:44
  professional baseball player for Los Angeles Dodgers, they're
• 14:46
  probably pretty talented or they wouldn't be in the room working
• 14:48
  with them. Same thing at the collegiate
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  level, they're probably pretty talented or you wouldn't be.
• 14:51
  Working with them in those situations are really just
• 14:54
  giving them the general capacity to go outside and do the
• 14:58
  specificity that they need to do.
• 14:59
  That's where the magic happens. And that was tough for me to
• 15:03
  understand. But then conceptually seeing it
• 15:05
  and feeling it and interacting with it on a daily basis, that's
• 15:09
  really like where my thought process is now.
• 15:11
  And that's how we try to train our players here is there's
• 15:13
  there's not a squat rack on the mound.
• 15:15
  There's not a bench press at the plate.
• 15:17
  Yes, you need to be strong. Like I think at times people
• 15:19
  think, oh, Brandon's a movement guy.
• 15:21
  He he's all into like, you know, just getting functional movement
• 15:24
  or whatever that is that, you know, people had somebody say
• 15:27
  that the other day is like, yeah, yeah, that's, that's your
• 15:29
  type of training, like the stretching and stuff.
• 15:30
  And I'm like, ah, well, I mean, maybe, maybe.
• 15:32
  But like we do need to be strong.
• 15:33
  We do need to be powerful. We knew we do need to be able to
• 15:37
  produce force at the rate of the game, whatever sport that is
• 15:40
  requires, but you also have to have the skill set, you have to
• 15:42
  have the coordination to allow that to be expressed in order to
• 15:45
  be successful in any given sport.
• 15:46
  So I think that's that's pretty important.
• 15:48
  But as far as the the specificity, I think really want
• 15:52
  to hammer home that generalizing and getting the general movement
• 15:55
  qualities, just internal, external rotation, like
• 15:58
  everything that people measure and pretty much every
• 16:01
  organization, making sure those things are elite and allowing
• 16:05
  them to be functional and just understanding what it is that
• 16:08
  they're doing and then assessing those things.
• 16:10
  So you can see longitudinally over time, are they getting
• 16:13
  better? Are they getting worse?
• 16:14
  And how does that impact performance?
• 16:16
  Does that make you like, if, if you're all of a sudden your T
• 16:19
  spine mobility is at 45° and then it's at 70 when your
• 16:22
  performance goes down, like people think more is always
• 16:24
  better. Well, 90° versus 45 for somebody
• 16:28
  that could be great, that could allow them to get more rotation
• 16:30
  for the lay back, be able to manipulate the baseball more out
• 16:33
  front, or it could allow them to be all over the place and you
• 16:35
  have elbow issues. So it's just always, it's always
• 16:38
  player specific and situation specific, but generally getting
• 16:42
  them to function as optimally as possible as a human being,
• 16:46
  that's step number one. And then you allow their skill
• 16:48
  set and who they are as an athlete to come shine through.
• 16:51
  That's where that's where the magic happens.
• 16:53
  I am going to sound like a broken record.
• 16:56
  I bring out the fact that I love that you brought up kind of the
• 16:59
  objective measurement in the sense that you can actually
• 17:02
  track where improvements are coming from and more isn't
• 17:06
  always better in this case. Right.
• 17:09
  Yeah, I, I think that's awesome. And I guess some of it is trial
• 17:13
  and error of like maybe maybe you said like the 40 verse 75
• 17:18
  maybe on AI don't I don't know what normal T spine rotation is
• 17:22
  or what ideal quote UN quote would normally be considered.
• 17:25
  Maybe an athlete who presents with lower T spine rotation and
• 17:30
  you focus on gaining it and they perform worse.
• 17:33
  Maybe that's a guy that benefits from being tighter in the middle
• 17:37
  of their body and that's that's OK.
• 17:39
  But that's the kind of stuff that you can bring up to a coach
• 17:43
  or I guess the rest of the staff where you utilize your support
• 17:48
  role as opposed to them telling you where things need to change.
• 17:52
  You can say well this might not look normal to you, but he is
• 17:57
  going to be better as a stiffer mover or something.
• 18:00
  Like that, yeah, especially with the ankles, especially with the
• 18:03
  ankle mobility. People look at that and it's
• 18:05
  like, OK, we want, we always want that number to go higher.
• 18:07
  It's like, well, somebody runs a pretty fast 40 or 60 or whatever
• 18:12
  the case may be, and then all of a sudden you loosen those ankles
• 18:14
  up, like you're taking away their stiffness, which is what
• 18:17
  allows them to be explosive force back and down.
• 18:19
  Like probably going to make them a less fast player, which isn't
• 18:23
  beneficial for any sport. So just contextually
• 18:26
  understanding like what it is that you're doing as a
• 18:28
  performance coach and like what stimulus that you are providing
• 18:30
  and how that does interact and how that does make an impact on
• 18:36
  the player is huge. And that's why I'm so big on
• 18:39
  watching what they do from the baseball side of things or from
• 18:41
  the bat, whatever sport it is like watching them in their
• 18:44
  sport. Because I can't tell you how
• 18:45
  many times I've watched a kid and and then be doing something
• 18:49
  in the weight room, like, oh, man, like not really sure this
• 18:51
  kids going to make it here. Then the first time you see them
• 18:53
  on the field, it's like got got it.
• 18:55
  Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Like they didn't come to school
• 18:59
  to play weight room and they didn't go for whatever
• 19:01
  professional organization to get paid to lift weights, so they
• 19:04
  got paid to play the games. Understanding that and taking
• 19:07
  that into consideration. And then like combining the two
• 19:09
  and really looking at like if there's not a reason to change
• 19:14
  something, like if there's not a performance issue or pain, like
• 19:17
  probably should keep it rocking and rolling and just minimally
• 19:20
  like look at what needs to happen to again, continue to
• 19:24
  improve performance. Do you have any examples, maybe
• 19:30
  case studies? People love those.
• 19:31
  I love them because you can actually start to visualize
• 19:34
  what's going on of where maybe you pushed something up the
• 19:39
  chain in a sense to the skill side.
• 19:41
  Like you called something out on a player that you saw in the
• 19:45
  weight room or during movement prep.
• 19:47
  Where maybe what you heard a coach or I guess feedback from a
• 19:53
  player saying like, oh, we've been working on trying to get
• 19:55
  more hip shoulder separation so I can generate more velocity.
• 20:00
  But you noticed that doesn't match up with the way the
• 20:03
  athlete is moving. Of course this is tying back to
• 20:08
  you saying your support staff. Your job is to support those.
• 20:11
  Around. But of course there's going to
• 20:13
  be times where you have to speak up that you have more knowledge
• 20:15
  than everybody else in the room. So I'd like to hear you speak on
• 20:19
  that a little bit. Yeah, I think, I think there's
• 20:21
  one, there's there's a very specific thing that I think it
• 20:25
  was an encounter, whatever we were at.
• 20:26
  I was at Wake and we were doing some stuff and there was a
• 20:29
  picture that they had there at the time who was super explosive
• 20:32
  and could do a lot of different things, could throw the crap out
• 20:35
  of the ball, could throw a football, could jump, do all
• 20:37
  kinds of crazy stuff that you wouldn't expect a a college
• 20:40
  baseball player to do as a as a freshman.
• 20:43
  And I remember like looking at him and looking at Moose and
• 20:45
  like be fairing and being like, Hey, this kids not coordinated
• 20:48
  and they laughed at they're like not coordinated.
• 20:50
  Like wait till you see him throw a football BG.
• 20:52
  You'll you'll see like he's coordinated.
• 20:53
  I'm like, well, I mean, he can't have like he can't have his foot
• 20:57
  flat on the ground and rock side to side and control his ankle.
• 21:00
  So like he's not coordinated or he can't rotate, like his T
• 21:04
  spine rotate this way, keeping his knees together and, and
• 21:07
  being able to control his T spine.
• 21:08
  So like he's actually not coordinated.
• 21:10
  So like being able to explain like what coordination is.
• 21:14
  And, and again, back to that general range of motion, that
• 21:17
  ability to control your body in space, in the planes of motion
• 21:20
  that each joint is supposed to function in, that's where
• 21:24
  coordination lies. And I think that's a very
• 21:26
  simplistic version of coordination, obviously, but
• 21:28
  people have their opinion of what coordination is in their
• 21:31
  thought process of what it is. But like, to me, it's being able
• 21:34
  to access the range of motion, the joint, be able to function
• 21:36
  properly and being able to produce force and power within
• 21:39
  the rate that it that the game demands.
• 21:42
  So whether you're a hitter, a pitcher, obviously those differ,
• 21:44
  but that's a that's a really specific time where it was like,
• 21:48
  hey, I'm going against exactly what they believe here.
• 21:51
  And I know that. And then I showed it to him and
• 21:53
  it was like, cool, got it. Yep, sounds good.
• 21:55
  Let's keep it rocking and rolling.
• 21:57
  Sticking on the coordination theme now, this might be more of
• 22:00
  a selfish question. I I don't know how much the
• 22:04
  listenership will will really dive into this, but how much of
• 22:09
  coordination do you think involves our childhood or the
• 22:14
  prepubescent years versus what can actually be trained or
• 22:19
  accomplished later in life? That's a great question and I
• 22:23
  don't, I, I obviously don't know the exact answer, but I think
• 22:26
  looking at it just, I mean, I have two kids right now.
• 22:29
  My, my wife's actually 14 weeks pregnant today.
• 22:32
  So we got another one. We got another one in the in the
• 22:35
  oven, another boy coming. So I'm just watching the way
• 22:37
  that they've grown and then here soon I'm going to watch the way
• 22:40
  that one, you know, comes out into what he does too.
• 22:42
  But just watching how they go from laying on their back to
• 22:45
  rocking and rolling and rolling over and then like sitting up
• 22:48
  and then rocking in one spot and then did just the longitudinal
• 22:53
  of standing upright, walking, falling, all of those things.
• 22:57
  To me, pretty much every movement that we do is a skill
• 23:02
  based movement. I know we have talked about that
• 23:04
  before, but like just everything's a skill.
• 23:07
  I mean like standing is a skill, doing a squats of skill, push
• 23:10
  ups of skill, hitting, breaking balls of skill, like throwing a
• 23:14
  football, catching a football, Like everything human movement
• 23:19
  wise is so skill based because it's all neurological patterning
• 23:22
  and it's all an electrical signal from near the brain to
• 23:25
  the musculature to to fire. So the more that's myelinated
• 23:28
  and the more that action potential has the ability to
• 23:31
  send a message like the more coordinated we are.
• 23:33
  So I think to your question, I think a lot of it has to do with
• 23:37
  it. I don't I don't know, I haven't
• 23:39
  studied that, but I would imagine that's a pretty in depth
• 23:44
  thing. And if I ever do have a chance
• 23:45
  to get a PHDI think that's what I would do it on.
• 23:47
  It's like coordination and just like how does that work?
• 23:50
  And are certain people more apartment to be coordinated than
• 23:55
  others because of XY and Z and that I think that's a really
• 23:58
  cool thing. And you can look at a kid and I
• 24:01
  mean, you hear it all the time out of 12 year old in here last
• 24:04
  night trying out for one of our teams and somebody's like, oh
• 24:06
  man, he's a natural. And I'm like, is he or is he
• 24:08
  just like coordinated? Like who comes out of the womb
• 24:09
  naturally throwing a baseball? We know that's the most
• 24:12
  unnatural movement down a mound. So it's like, I don't know
• 24:15
  necessarily he's a natural, but like he's coordinated in that
• 24:18
  movement and he's he spent some time on it and the action
• 24:21
  potential has the ability to move down the Axon and do what
• 24:23
  it needs to do for him to execute that skills.
• 24:25
  I think that's a huge part of human movement and skill based
• 24:31
  things I guess the players need to do.
• 24:33
  But at the end of the day, like that's what when you watch
• 24:35
  players and you watch guys in the NBA and NFL and in the big
• 24:39
  leagues and do all these different things, that this
• 24:41
  looks so easy for them. It looks like they're floating
• 24:43
  and it looks like they're just moving so effortlessly and only
• 24:47
  they know how much effort they're putting in.
• 24:48
  But really it to me, it comes back to they're so coordinated
• 24:52
  and they have such a high level of skill within that specific
• 24:59
  thing that they're doing. This is, I suppose, a time where
• 25:02
  I can thank my parents for having me do gymnastics for a
• 25:05
  bit as a child. For sure.
• 25:07
  I feel I have a pretty good, I guess, feel for my body in
• 25:14
  space. I feel like I have good
• 25:16
  kinesthetic awareness as a result of the two three years of
• 25:20
  gymnastics I did. I feel like flexibility is kind
• 25:23
  of stuck with me for years versus maybe some of my friends
• 25:28
  who weren't exposed to the body contortion or the weird
• 25:33
  positions you get put in are now stiff as boards as 31 year olds,
• 25:38
  32 year olds. And we were college baseball
• 25:41
  teammates. They were elite high school
• 25:43
  guys. They may have had professional
• 25:45
  time. And like, really the only
• 25:47
  difference that I see is maybe what we did when we were 8 years
• 25:53
  old and younger. So I, I don't know, maybe I
• 25:55
  should apologize to everyone for, I don't know, making you
• 25:59
  feel bad that you didn't expose children to these kind of things
• 26:02
  is now you listen to this and you hear about your 16 year old
• 26:05
  kid who can't move. Yeah.
• 26:08
  It's something that I've always put a lot of thought into.
• 26:11
  Much like you, I I haven't studied this.
• 26:14
  I just find it incredibly interesting that we can look
• 26:17
  across the board at who naturally in a sense has more
• 26:22
  mobility or usable range of motion than others.
• 26:25
  Who can balance better? Who has more?
• 26:29
  Maybe not hand eye coordination, but general body coordination,
• 26:32
  kind of like what you talked about.
• 26:34
  With the big forest pitcher, yeah, absolutely, man.
• 26:37
  And I think there's I think there's definitely something to
• 26:39
  that. I mean, if you look at, I mean
• 26:41
  like the icons from when when we were I'm 35.
• 26:43
  So like, if you look at the guys from where we were growing up,
• 26:45
  like or even earlier than that, like Nolan Ryan and those guys,
• 26:48
  like they can go out and throw hard for such a long time.
• 26:51
  Like they weren't sitting around playing video games.
• 26:54
  To my knowledge. They weren't on their phones
• 26:56
  because they didn't have phones. Like they were out playing and
• 26:59
  they're playing different sports or they were farming or they
• 27:01
  were doing, whatever the case may be, playing whatever sport
• 27:05
  that season was to where when they got to the big leagues,
• 27:08
  they could throw pitches and they could swing and they could
• 27:10
  do all that stuff. I mean, shoot one of the the
• 27:13
  pitching coach for the high point Rockers, which the
• 27:16
  independent league team here, Frank Viola's another St.
• 27:19
  John's guy, like pitched three games in the World Series was
• 27:22
  MVP, like Cy Young winner. Like we we were talking the
• 27:26
  other day like he was in here not too long ago.
• 27:28
  And he's like, man, you got to teach me something like this
• 27:30
  analytic stuff. And I was like, Frank, there's
• 27:31
  not going to be a single thing that I'm teaching you, buddy.
• 27:33
  But like, thanks for thanks for saying that.
• 27:35
  Thanks for making me pumping my tires and making me feel good.
• 27:37
  But like, I mean, to that point, like, have you ever heard of
• 27:40
  somebody pitching in three games in a World Series?
• 27:42
  Like, I haven't except for him. So like, to that point, like, is
• 27:46
  he an anomaly? Yeah, I'm sure he is.
• 27:47
  But there was probably something in his childhood that allowed
• 27:50
  him to do that. And then just like, you know,
• 27:52
  all these other great athletes that are able to go do certain
• 27:56
  things, it's probably because of what they were exposed to as a
• 27:58
  child. Well, now maybe let's switch our
• 28:02
  focus to what is attainable, what is trainable, maybe more
• 28:06
  for the current listenership, not as much the getting The Time
• 28:11
  Machine and go back 15 years. But are there ways that we can
• 28:17
  lean into coordination training? As you hinted at earlier, all
• 28:22
  these things are a skill. So if you want to get better at
• 28:25
  it, you kind of need to put effort into it.
• 28:28
  How much can we improve? What does improvement even look
• 28:32
  like? My head goes towards kind of
• 28:34
  what we were making fun of earlier, putting someone on a
• 28:37
  BOSU ball and watching them try to balance or give them
• 28:40
  different juggling pins and watch them try to get better at
• 28:44
  hand eye coordination. Yeah, I can't imagine that's the
• 28:47
  answer here. I maybe maybe I'm the one who's
• 28:50
  wrong, but you who has more experience in the space say
• 28:54
  please just take it away. Yeah, that's for sure.
• 28:57
  I don't think you're wrong. I don't think we need to have,
• 28:59
  you know, people bouncing up and down on balls and juggling bosu
• 29:02
  balls. But I think there could be like,
• 29:04
  I mean, if you look at just some of the things that kids do
• 29:08
  nowadays, they're probably the majority of them aren't outside
• 29:11
  doing things unless they're playing a game, unless they're
• 29:14
  playing baseball, football, soccer, unless it's a practice
• 29:16
  or a game or it's something that's fun to them.
• 29:20
  Like if the Ninja Warrior stuff is huge, like my kids watch on
• 29:23
  YouTube Ninja Kids and they're crushing that stuff and then
• 29:26
  they're running and jumping and flipping over the couch and
• 29:28
  stuff. And I'm like, hey, don't.
• 29:29
  I'm like actually just don't get hurt.
• 29:30
  Like keep flipping or whatever. But like, just don't lay on your
• 29:34
  brother's neck, please. So I think, I think I joked
• 29:37
  about, I joked about a kid at Wake, actually a pitcher with
• 29:41
  Moose. I was like, yeah, this kid just
• 29:42
  needs to like do random shit and like be like more Ninja Warrior
• 29:45
  type shit. He's like Ninja Warrior.
• 29:46
  Got it, Brandon, That's what we're doing.
• 29:47
  And I'm like, hey, man, I'm just saying like, let's expose him to
• 29:51
  some different things, like jumping rope, like very
• 29:53
  simplistic things that the population that we're we're
• 29:57
  talking about right now just hasn't had the exposure to like
• 30:00
  go climb a tree, jump out of a tree, do all those different
• 30:03
  things. But to the point that I'm trying
• 30:05
  to make like they're not going to do that because there's so
• 30:07
  many other things. So how do we as coaches, like
• 30:10
  make environments where it's fun for them and they want to go do
• 30:13
  that? So I think like with some of our
• 30:15
  youth classes, what we've done is we've exposed them to
• 30:18
  different skills. We've exposed them to different
• 30:20
  things. I think how can you make it fun
• 30:22
  and how can you make it exciting for them?
• 30:24
  And that's the, I think that's the kicker of how do you keep
• 30:27
  them coming back and getting exposed to those things that
• 30:30
  they're not getting that we got, you know, when we were younger.
• 30:33
  That's not a right or wrong. I think that's just, I mean,
• 30:36
  shoot, when I was growing up, there wasn't, I mean, somebody
• 30:38
  called, they kicked you off the Internet like you.
• 30:40
  We didn't have cell phones like early on.
• 30:42
  And now they have phones in their pockets and they can do
• 30:44
  whatever they, they want to do. It's just a different world and
• 30:47
  that's fine. But like as far as the
• 30:48
  development stuff goes, like being able to challenge them and
• 30:51
  play different sports and do things that are fun all while
• 30:55
  challenging that coordination and that just overall robustness
• 31:00
  as a human being to go do things that we don't do as much.
• 31:04
  Trying to stay true to the general themes of the podcast, I
• 31:08
  would like to shift this a little bit to maybe a rehab ask
• 31:13
  discussion. I would fully believe that there
• 31:17
  isn't a lot of focus on coordination or overall body
• 31:21
  control in the general return to play or return to performance
• 31:26
  protocols. Now I'm asking you to get a
• 31:29
  little creative here. Obviously isn't something that
• 31:31
  you had a lot of time to prep for.
• 31:34
  Maybe how would you dose some of this stuff in for an individual
• 31:40
  that is returning from TJ or another elbow injury that has
• 31:45
  been APO since they were 15 and now they're 24 years old and
• 31:51
  just hoping to see another contract in minor League
• 31:55
  Baseball? Yeah, that's a that's a great,
• 31:57
  great question. And I think the first thing that
• 32:00
  comes to my mind is making sure that the general things are
• 32:03
  taken care of as much as possible.
• 32:05
  Like can they push and pull? Like can they can they do a
• 32:07
  dumbbell bench and they do a dumbbell row.
• 32:08
  Then are they able to progress from that and do like some bed
• 32:11
  ball things. But the general process of rehab
• 32:13
  like just checking the boxes and making sure that everything
• 32:17
  prior to throwing a baseball is covered, but also doing some
• 32:21
  lateral shuffles with the water bag.
• 32:23
  We're doing some jump rope, doing some different things
• 32:26
  where they're hopping and doing some different things there
• 32:28
  where you're giving them that stimulus of being a more robust
• 32:32
  athlete within their conditioning for the day, within
• 32:35
  their change of direction. Stuff like just being, I guess,
• 32:40
  forward thinking and kind of thinking outside the box of
• 32:42
  looking at them and say like, OK, they have an electric arm.
• 32:45
  They have an absolute electric arm, which is why they're here.
• 32:48
  Not super coordinated, not super.
• 32:51
  I guess. Like they probably could go play
• 32:53
  basketball or go play football at a high level, but they don't
• 32:55
  need to because they're on a contract here to play baseball.
• 32:57
  Like, but how do we make increase their overall
• 33:00
  athleticism? Maybe their warmups, jumping
• 33:02
  rope, and they are not good at it.
• 33:04
  So give them the capacity and the time frame to get good at it
• 33:08
  and then giving them the ability to be good at different things.
• 33:11
  I think that's a really big point that I want to make.
• 33:13
  There's like giving people enough time to be good at
• 33:16
  something before you change it. So like so often in the rehab
• 33:20
  space or even in, you know, the overall performance space, it's
• 33:23
  like, OK, we're going to do this stimulus in these groups of
• 33:27
  exercises at this volume intensity.
• 33:29
  But we don't always give it enough time for them to actually
• 33:31
  get good at something, which is the skill base, which is the
• 33:34
  coordination, which then lays the foundation for you to go up
• 33:37
  and up. I think that's probably the best
• 33:40
  answer that I have for that is allowing them the time to get
• 33:43
  good at something and picking a few things that like, hey, we're
• 33:45
  going to get really good at hopping ankle stiffness.
• 33:48
  Maybe even in I guess to the point that as I'm thinking right
• 33:52
  now, like looking at their general movement screen and just
• 33:55
  looking at their general abilities to move, like what are
• 33:57
  some maybe 3 or 4 things that if we increase the capacity,
• 34:00
  they're generally would globally increase their overall
• 34:04
  robustness as an athlete and potentially give them the
• 34:06
  opportunity to continue playing and, and get another contract
• 34:10
  like, and then allowing them to get good at it.
• 34:12
  That's the that's the kicker is allowing them to fail, allowing
• 34:17
  them to have be in a position where there they have the chance
• 34:21
  to lay that groundwork. And then once that groundwork's
• 34:24
  laid, then you can build on top of that.
• 34:26
  I think at times that's that's passed over.
• 34:29
  I think my favorite piece in all of that, again, beating the dead
• 34:33
  horse is you were still able to tie it back to objectivity.
• 34:37
  It's not like you're rolling out the balls in PE class and saying
• 34:41
  go have fun for 45 minutes, right?
• 34:44
  This is it's still a targeted approach.
• 34:47
  If you if you saw the athlete again, back to the Wake Forest
• 34:51
  example, the guy lacked ankle stability or coordination and
• 34:57
  jumping rope might seem like a dumb task to every one of his
• 35:03
  teammates, but it makes a ton of sense for that individual
• 35:07
  athlete. Or one of the things that I have
• 35:10
  seen get a little more popularized and I'm a massive
• 35:13
  fan of it, especially in some of these like facilities is
• 35:17
  watching guys warm up, playing spikeball or different things
• 35:21
  like that. And yet, one, it's fun, 2, it's
• 35:24
  competitive. But three, taking your approach,
• 35:28
  you might be prescribing it for a very specific reason.
• 35:32
  And if you can prescribe a game that's actually going to help an
• 35:37
  athlete get better, I feel like that's that's the lottery.
• 35:42
  I understand that you're playing to their competitive advantage
• 35:44
  and it's like, hey, man, if you can't compete at this, that's
• 35:46
  OK. Like if you're not ready, like,
• 35:47
  and you just, you know, poke them and then let them go do
• 35:50
  their thing. I think that's a.
• 35:51
  That's a great point. Yeah.
• 35:53
  And again, it comes back to if you can track it, that's
• 35:57
  freaking awesome. Because then maybe you can
• 35:59
  change the skill or the stimulus as you go.
• 36:02
  Like maybe, maybe it starts with a smaller task and it slowly
• 36:07
  grows over time. So maybe that's a way that we
• 36:10
  can get creative and have some fun.
• 36:12
  I, I love that. But now let's stick on this
• 36:15
  skill theme for a little bit. We, we've sprinkled it in a
• 36:19
  little bit, But do you want to shout out Matt Tomitz for this?
• 36:23
  Because I heard this from you on his podcast.
• 36:27
  He is a former guest. So shout out Matt Coach, big
• 36:31
  toe, everybody go check him out. Oh yeah, I, I thought you
• 36:34
  phrased this wonderfully. We don't think about it as much
• 36:38
  when it comes to the weight room or the different things that we
• 36:42
  focus on as a skill. We only really think of our
• 36:45
  sport as a skill. But of course, anything we do
• 36:49
  takes effort and energy. So if it takes effort and
• 36:53
  energy, it distracts us from maybe something else that
• 36:56
  matters or needs to be accomplished.
• 36:59
  I, I don't want to butcher anything here.
• 37:01
  I don't want to put words in your mouth.
• 37:03
  So I'm going to open the floor for you to kind of dive deep on
• 37:07
  this topic. Feel free to take your long rant
• 37:10
  here like you hesitated to do earlier.
• 37:13
  Go as long as you want. I I would love to hear your
• 37:15
  theories on this and maybe what you've seen just with skill and
• 37:20
  time. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 37:23
  So I mean, obviously in the we can look at it a couple
• 37:26
  different ways. Like you have like high school
• 37:28
  players, collegiate athletes and you have professional athletes,
• 37:31
  like all three of those have different time constraints
• 37:33
  throughout the day and they're at different maturation
• 37:36
  processes and just different points of their lives.
• 37:39
  Like professional players at times have families, they have
• 37:42
  wives, they have kids, high school kids, some do, but the
• 37:46
  majority of them don't. Then they're in school for a
• 37:47
  certain amount of time. College players, they have their
• 37:50
  classes that they have to be at. They have a lot of demanding
• 37:53
  things that they need to be on the field and they have study
• 37:55
  hall and they are getting pulled in all kinds of different
• 37:57
  directions. So like even just looking at
• 37:59
  their overall ability to sleep and recover before we even go to
• 38:02
  the skill side of things like you talked about, like the
• 38:05
  ability to accomplish something and it takes effort and energy.
• 38:09
  Like, well, all three of those subgroups like have different
• 38:14
  time frames and different abilities to sleep and recover.
• 38:16
  Like big leaguers are flying across the country and and
• 38:19
  playing a three-game series and then they're bouncing and going
• 38:21
  back to the West Coast or whatever the case may be.
• 38:23
  So understanding that on the front end, I think it's super
• 38:26
  helpful is like, it all requires effort.
• 38:29
  It all requires energy. What is their ability to
• 38:32
  replenish that effort and energy?
• 38:34
  It's all different, but just the overall neural capacity, like
• 38:38
  people talk about it all the time.
• 38:39
  I think it might have been like Mark Zuckerberg or one of these
• 38:41
  people that were you're super famous and have developed super
• 38:44
  high level companies and made a lot of money.
• 38:47
  They talk about like the the fatigue and just a neural
• 38:51
  fatigue of like picking out what you're wearing every day, like
• 38:53
  going in and like, hey, what am I going to wear every day?
• 38:54
  Like if I want to say I saw that like maybe 7-8 years ago.
• 38:58
  So what he wears the same thing every day.
• 38:59
  He's going to, there's a shirt, there's just pants, there's just
• 39:02
  socks, there's shoes, underwear, whatever the case may be, it's
• 39:05
  all the same. Like that's not a decision that
• 39:06
  he has to make that day because he's going to have to make so
• 39:08
  many decisions. With our athletes, with our
• 39:11
  players, these levels, there's a lot of things that we're asking
• 39:15
  them to do. And from a skill standpoint,
• 39:18
  like doing a single leg RDL with a water bag for a big leaguer
• 39:23
  that's been doing it for a long time, doesn't take a whole lot
• 39:25
  of effort. But for a 15 year old that I was
• 39:28
  working with this morning, like probably takes a lot of effort
• 39:30
  for them to, one, understand how to hinge, to control their body,
• 39:34
  to put their foot in the ground so they don't fall over, to
• 39:36
  exhale properly, to create inter abdominal pressure, to then
• 39:39
  bring the ball up and stabilize at the top of the hip lock.
• 39:41
  Like that's a lot. That's a lot for a high school
• 39:43
  kid who's never, never done something like that to which
• 39:47
  that's a big part of it too, is like understanding their
• 39:50
  familiarity with what it is, the task that we're asking them to
• 39:52
  do. Like that's important as well.
• 39:56
  And I think that's probably overlooked and not necessarily,
• 39:59
  I'm not really sure how you track that objectively, but just
• 40:01
  understanding that. Different players, even though
• 40:05
  they may be at the same level, are going to have different
• 40:07
  capacities for performing different tasks and executing
• 40:10
  those tasks at the level that they're being asked to.
• 40:12
  But yeah, I think to your point, like everything's a skill to me,
• 40:16
  it's like I said, there's no way our body moves.
• 40:19
  There's no way my mouth is moving and words coming out
• 40:21
  without an electrical or electrical signal coming from my
• 40:23
  brain telling my body to do that.
• 40:25
  There's only so much capacity and effort and energy that we
• 40:30
  have on a on a given day. And I think that's the beauty of
• 40:34
  training is you can increase those capacities.
• 40:36
  You can increase the capacity for just about anything.
• 40:39
  If you provide us the proper stimulus with the proper volume
• 40:42
  and intensity, you can improve just about anything from a
• 40:46
  human. We, we know that like
• 40:48
  neuroplasticity, like there's so many different things.
• 40:50
  We can change our brain, we can change different things within
• 40:54
  the framework of being a human being.
• 40:56
  So I understanding those those parts of it and just
• 41:01
  understanding that everything is a skill and what's the most
• 41:04
  important thing at that given time.
• 41:06
  Like right now with it being college baseball teams, the
• 41:09
  majority of them played four games up to this point.
• 41:11
  And then you're coming into the second weekend like it's, it's a
• 41:14
  pretty high level shift of going from the weight room was really
• 41:18
  big and now it's shifting over to like baseball.
• 41:21
  Like baseball should be #1 and that should be the main stimulus
• 41:25
  that's just driving things. And then back off on the
• 41:28
  performance side of things, not just to back off on it, but to
• 41:31
  support what's going on there, whether it's a recovery aspect
• 41:34
  of things, whether they need your strength and power.
• 41:37
  There may be a few guys that need to improve from a power
• 41:39
  standpoint. So it's like, hey, maybe they're
• 41:41
  doing 5 to 6 exercises, three to six reps.
• 41:44
  And there may be some guys who are super powerful who just need
• 41:47
  to continue to increase their just general capacity to express
• 41:51
  that force and power. So I think that's where the
• 41:53
  skill based stuff comes into such a big play is understanding
• 41:57
  who you have, understanding where they're at and
• 42:00
  understanding what they're trying to do.
• 42:02
  And then really getting your ego out of the way.
• 42:04
  It doesn't matter if I have 4 exercises or 10 exercises.
• 42:09
  What matters is are they able to go out and do what they need to
• 42:12
  do with the college level for 56 five season games and then the
• 42:14
  playoffs. And it's the big league level
• 42:16
  162 in the high school level 20, I think.
• 42:19
  Yeah, we, we just started our podcast here, had Caminosi with
• 42:22
  the Angels and, and he was talking about last week, he was,
• 42:25
  he was talking about how at every level the games go up.
• 42:28
  Like at high school levels, this college, is this the final
• 42:32
  lease? Is this the big leagues?
• 42:33
  It's 162. So like, I don't think that's
• 42:36
  talked about enough. And I don't know that we
• 42:37
  necessarily, I mean, obviously people know that like
• 42:40
  conceptually, you know, you play more games in the big lease than
• 42:42
  you do at high school. But I don't know that
• 42:44
  necessarily from a skill and from an overall like effort and
• 42:48
  energy neurologically that we take that into account to be
• 42:53
  able to ensure the best we can that we're preparing our players
• 42:58
  and our athletes to go execute those things.
• 43:00
  All right, well, first and foremost, thanks a ton for going
• 43:04
  down that rabbit hole. I found that super valuable.
• 43:07
  As I said, that was my biggest take away from that episode you
• 43:10
  did with Matt. As I mentioned to you off air, I
• 43:13
  hate kind of repeating or putting people in a position to
• 43:16
  regurgitate. Yeah, as soon as I heard that, I
• 43:18
  was like, whoa, this is crazy. Like, I feel like that could be
• 43:21
  an hour and a half time right there.
• 43:24
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 43:24
  Absolutely. And I believe it too, like, and
• 43:26
  I think like again, it backs like the strength and power and
• 43:28
  like it's all, it's all dependent.
• 43:30
  Like again, I have a kid that's literally out there lifting
• 43:33
  right now, 18 year old high school kid, like need some
• 43:36
  coordination, but like really need strength and power.
• 43:38
  And like there's, there's sometimes where I've heard
• 43:41
  people say like, oh, when they get strong, that'll take care of
• 43:43
  it. It's like, maybe, maybe not.
• 43:45
  Sometimes it does the but, but how do we know?
• 43:46
  Unless we assess and unless we look at different things and we
• 43:49
  see that we're kind of movement jump or like our lower body
• 43:51
  strength is low, like if strength is the case, let's go
• 43:54
  get it. But the majority of the times
• 43:56
  strength and power is, is pretty simple to train and get better
• 44:00
  at. But the coordination of it all,
• 44:02
  like putting it all together, like putting it all together and
• 44:05
  wrapping the bow around that thing and letting them go do
• 44:07
  their do their thing. That's the magic.
• 44:09
  And that's what that's what excites me.
• 44:11
  And that's why I think I've always been drawn more on the
• 44:14
  pitching side is because that makes the most sense.
• 44:17
  And then pitchers understand that stuff.
• 44:18
  And nowadays, like with hitters being able to, to conceptually
• 44:23
  understand what it is that they're trying to do and prepare
• 44:25
  their bodies to hit like it's a, it's a lot of fun on that side
• 44:28
  too. And just understanding that
• 44:30
  there's a lot that goes into this and there's a lot that goes
• 44:33
  into any sport, but especially the high, the high level, I
• 44:38
  guess the high rate of speeds that the body's moving like
• 44:41
  consistently over the course of time.
• 44:44
  There's a lot, there's a lot going on there, whether it's
• 44:46
  down the slope or at the plate, you know, in the six hole in the
• 44:49
  outfield, whatever the case may be, there's a lot of high
• 44:51
  velocity movements and how do we prep our players to be able to
• 44:55
  withstand that and excel in that range.
• 44:58
  And I think making sure that they have the skills and the
• 45:02
  capacity to go do it. And now I kindly ask you to
• 45:07
  pardon my attempt to connect the dots here, but you brought up
• 45:12
  your conversation with Kaminasi on your own podcast.
• 45:16
  So of course, I, I do want you to talk about your own podcast a
• 45:19
  little bit later on. But let's let's talk about now
• 45:23
  the addition of games. So maybe this in where I'm
• 45:27
  connecting the dots, the skill of work capacity to an extent.
• 45:32
  And I assume that maybe shifts how you program or how you would
• 45:36
  work with an individual as they're making the jump to a new
• 45:40
  level. And maybe Cam got a little lucky
• 45:43
  being from Florida, right? I think he's from the Tampa
• 45:46
  area. He was fortunate enough, I
• 45:48
  suppose, to have a 30 to 35 game high school schedule where if
• 45:52
  you grow up up north, you're looking at, as you said, a
• 45:56
  twenty game high school schedule that I mean, that's almost a
• 45:59
  different sport at that point. It's like playing high school
• 46:01
  football versus being a small college baseball player.
• 46:05
  Cam with four years of college. And so he went from playing four
• 46:12
  years of 35 games a year with whatever summer ball he might
• 46:15
  have played to then 56 games a year scheduled, not counting
• 46:19
  what he did in the fall, whatever he did in the summer
• 46:22
  there, to then adding in whatever pro ball looks like.
• 46:26
  So now let's take the dive on maybe how you would tap into
• 46:30
  work capacity, maybe maybe how you would change some things.
• 46:35
  Is that something important to you?
• 46:36
  Does it really impact how you would program?
• 46:40
  Yeah, I, I think 100% because you're dealing with, we'd look
• 46:42
  at Cam, excuse me, you know, a younger guy as far as
• 46:45
  professional, professional baseball goes, but like just
• 46:47
  longevity. And at the end of the day,
• 46:49
  you're trying to give them the opportunity to go out there and
• 46:53
  do what they do to make, to make their money and to be in to have
• 46:56
  a successful career. And it's different for money.
• 46:59
  Like can being in big league camp or somebody who's been a
• 47:02
  10/11/12 year veteran of the big leagues, like you're going to
• 47:05
  train those guys differently. But I think the way I look at it
• 47:09
  is, is giving them frequent exposures.
• 47:13
  People, I've heard people talk about minimal effective dose and
• 47:15
  that could be, they could be a part of it too, But also giving
• 47:19
  them the ability to have exposures to the stimulus that
• 47:23
  that they specifically need with the with the volume intensity
• 47:28
  being appropriate for the time of year that they're in with the
• 47:32
  other things that they're being asked to do.
• 47:33
  So if they're, if it's the offseason, they're not being
• 47:35
  asked to do a lot of things like obviously the volume intensity
• 47:38
  can be a little bit higher. But when, especially this time
• 47:40
  of year when spring training gets kicked up, like any time
• 47:42
  there's that workload spike, like we need to be really,
• 47:46
  really, really aware from the acute side like that work that
• 47:48
  acute workloads like when that spikes, like performance
• 47:51
  coaches, everybody needs to be on guard a little bit.
• 47:54
  And understanding what it is that we're putting on, on our
• 47:58
  players from a stimulus standpoint is going to have an
• 48:00
  impact. And it's up to us to, to ensure
• 48:02
  it's a +1 and not a -1. But looking at that, I guess to
• 48:05
  answer your question is yes, 100%.
• 48:07
  We're going to look at that and we're going to take that into
• 48:10
  account. And we're going to make sure
• 48:11
  that that they have what they need again for where they're at
• 48:14
  in their development process. Getting more specific, does that
• 48:19
  change positionally for an individual?
• 48:23
  I think it can, I think it can and I think sometimes sometimes
• 48:27
  it can and sometimes it can't. And they like going back to
• 48:29
  looking at who they are and what they need and really what their
• 48:34
  skill set is. And you know, for example, if
• 48:36
  you have a hitter that's like, man, I'm just trying to have
• 48:39
  better bat to ball skill, whatever it is that they want to
• 48:41
  improve on that the organization needs them to improve on.
• 48:45
  You're trying to do everything in your power to get them to be
• 48:50
  able to achieve that. Because if they're at the
• 48:52
  highest level, if they're in the big leagues and they understand
• 48:55
  that, hey, if I go from hitting 220 to 280, that's probably
• 49:00
  going to allow me to stick around a little bit longer, have
• 49:02
  a better career, do some different things.
• 49:05
  Obviously on the plate, there's different, there's different
• 49:07
  constraints and different things that needs to happen in first
• 49:09
  base and in center field. So yes, there's there's
• 49:12
  definitely some things that that you want to you want to be able
• 49:15
  to expose them to stimuli that are going to be as high, I
• 49:19
  guess, correlating as possible to what they're actually going
• 49:21
  to do on the field without it being something where it's going
• 49:25
  to be too much and potentially negatively affect them.
• 49:28
  But yeah, I think that stimulus needs to be there and it it
• 49:30
  needs to be as similar as possible.
• 49:33
  But it doesn't mean you can't replicate a Major League game.
• 49:36
  You can't replicate a college game.
• 49:38
  You can just give them the capacity to go do that.
• 49:40
  When I was with the Dodgers, like we would do base running
• 49:42
  and we would do a lot of our conditioning on the basis for
• 49:45
  the position players because that's where they're going to be
• 49:47
  sprinting, that's where they're going to be running.
• 49:48
  That's where they're going to be doing a lot of their things.
• 49:50
  That's a way that I think that we did a really good job of
• 49:53
  ensuring that stimulus is close to game like as possible without
• 49:56
  being like, OK, guys, we're going to put a picture on the
• 49:58
  mountain. We're going to do all this.
• 49:59
  We're just going to scrimmage. Like that's not always possible
• 50:02
  and nor should it be. But I think that's a very
• 50:04
  simple, simple way to look at like, yeah, we're just going to
• 50:06
  do base running and we're going to do, yeah, we're going to go
• 50:08
  home to 1st and we're going to go home to 2nd.
• 50:10
  We're going to 1st to 3rd when you're second to home.
• 50:12
  Like we're going to have the framework of what we think is
• 50:15
  important and what we need them to hit from maybe a distance
• 50:19
  standpoint, overall speed standpoint, whatever that case
• 50:22
  may be. Just having a plan for what it
• 50:25
  is and then just rationally programming that and then
• 50:28
  adjusting when things change and when things go right.
• 50:31
  Because that's that's sport. It's there's a there's a perfect
• 50:34
  plan and then there's real life and, and what actually happens
• 50:37
  is somewhere in the middle where.
• 50:40
  I started going mentally just kind of letting you know, trying
• 50:44
  to be an open book here is maybe I was getting overly cute with
• 50:48
  it, trying to like program out in my head.
• 50:50
  But I was thinking of this situation for a guy like Cam,
• 50:53
  who is probably a lot closer to his peak than most people would
• 50:59
  be. He can throw in the upper 90s.
• 51:02
  He is a reliever. He's been a reliever for, I
• 51:05
  mean, ever since I've known his name.
• 51:07
  So I don't know how many years that is.
• 51:10
  And that's a guy that I guess you're asking to redline two to
• 51:15
  three days in a row, potentially with a day or two off in
• 51:19
  between. Would you potentially with a guy
• 51:24
  that advanced, start to structure programming in a
• 51:27
  similar manner where you're really pushing him to his limit
• 51:32
  for like Max out single burst intensity to an extent or short
• 51:37
  Rep scheme? Or maybe like a shorter workout,
• 51:40
  but absolutely redlining him three days in a row, giving him
• 51:43
  a chance to recover and then just trying to do it again
• 51:45
  because that's the demands of the sport?
• 51:47
  Or is that getting overly cute and like getting out of the
• 51:51
  general? Yeah, I think that's getting
• 51:53
  overly cute and getting out of the general.
• 51:55
  One of the things that he talked about, we kind of talked about
• 51:57
  that a little bit. He he was like, man, like I, I
• 52:00
  probably don't squat heavier than a £50 kettlebell.
• 52:03
  I'm moving. I'm doing all this like
• 52:04
  different, different things because he's so bought into that
• 52:07
  and he's strong. Like he's, he talked about what
• 52:10
  is strong enough. And I think that's a question
• 52:12
  that people talk about all the time.
• 52:13
  And that's, that's, that answers very depending on who you talk
• 52:16
  to and in their opinions. And they're like, not
• 52:19
  necessarily opinions, but the way they've gone about their
• 52:21
  life and their career. But yeah, I mean, I, I don't
• 52:23
  think redlining him in the weight room or like on the
• 52:28
  conditioning field or whatever the case may be is going to be
• 52:29
  advantageous because of the point that we made a few minutes
• 52:33
  ago where like there's only so much effort and energy that can
• 52:36
  be expended. Like we want him when it's time,
• 52:38
  like when his name is called, like he's in big league camp
• 52:40
  right now. Like if he has a chance to break
• 52:41
  with the big league team, like he's going to have to do some
• 52:44
  things in spring training to show that he's capable of being
• 52:47
  in the in the bullpen in the big leagues.
• 52:49
  And if that doesn't happen before spring training, before
• 52:52
  the team breaks, like he's going to have to show that the minor
• 52:54
  leagues, any time his name is called, he has to be as ready as
• 52:59
  he possibly can. And if we're taking, we're
• 53:01
  putting a stimulus on that that's similar.
• 53:03
  It's not specific. It's not the same as not
• 53:05
  throwing a baseball, but we're doing a lot of high speed jumps
• 53:08
  and a lot of like high demand, high neurological, demanding
• 53:11
  things like maybe he'll be ready.
• 53:14
  But if we do it 3 or 4 times, like probably probably not a
• 53:16
  chance for him to be ready. So I think just allowing him, if
• 53:20
  he misses one of those days and he doesn't get that in, then
• 53:22
  yes, providing that stimulus that he could have potentially
• 53:24
  missed, but ramping them up just to ramp them up, that's not the
• 53:28
  way I would go about it, but probably not the best idea for
• 53:30
  him specifically. And then there's other guys that
• 53:32
  like, hey, like I got to get going.
• 53:34
  I need to like, prime my body in order to get going.
• 53:36
  Like, hell yeah, let's do it. Like.
• 53:37
  So I think that's where the relationship comes back into it.
• 53:40
  And it hopefully this doesn't sound like a cop out, but it
• 53:42
  always depends. And like getting the the ability
• 53:45
  to be around that player for long enough to watch what
• 53:48
  they're good at, to be able to protect them from themselves at
• 53:50
  times. And yeah, there's some players
• 53:52
  that you think more is better than there's some that like,
• 53:55
  well, that don't do enough. So like finding that happy
• 53:57
  medium where it's like, OK, you were probably supposed to get 10
• 54:01
  to 15 pitches in today at 95 to 98.
• 54:05
  So we couldn't get that in for whatever reason.
• 54:06
  Like whatever the case may be, like we need to provide some
• 54:09
  type of stimulus that is similar to that.
• 54:11
  So then the next time we're not again, spiking that acute
• 54:14
  workload and potentially setting ourself up for something non
• 54:17
  advantageous. And it's not necessarily
• 54:19
  specific that workloads fight because they're not throwing
• 54:22
  that day in that example that I just gave, but being able to
• 54:26
  again have the best case scenario program with real life
• 54:31
  and then with what actually happened somewhere.
• 54:34
  I do think bringing up workload though is worth it in this
• 54:38
  scenario because even a lot of the workload research that we
• 54:43
  talked about for throwing just stems from lower body research.
• 54:48
  I mean the original stuff was for hamstring injuries in just
• 54:53
  overall steps taken or miles covered on a rugby pitch.
• 54:57
  I mean, that's that's going to be more general fatigue than it
• 55:01
  is focused on the arm. So yeah, like throwing,
• 55:05
  especially in game, not only is it going to be fatiguing for the
• 55:08
  musculature that we care about in the forearm and at the
• 55:11
  shoulder, all all that stuff, it's also a significant central
• 55:16
  nervous system fatigue, which at least you can simulate that part
• 55:21
  in other areas, whether it's sprinting, jumping, the exposure
• 55:26
  to different exercise in the weight room.
• 55:27
  So although you said it's not the exact same, which is
• 55:31
  probably an obvious statement, but we can at least utilize a
• 55:35
  different stimulus to achieve a similar fatigue.
• 55:40
  Yep. Exactly.
• 55:42
  Yeah. And maybe this will be the last
• 55:45
  super in depth question we get into or in depth topic as we're
• 55:51
  starting to track a little deeper on the time scale you
• 55:55
  started maybe to sprinkle in some information about
• 56:00
  individualization or maybe some thoughts on it.
• 56:02
  We talked about it from the position specific perspective
• 56:05
  offline. We talked about some of what
• 56:08
  Ryan Yoshida and I talked about. You guys obviously worked hand
• 56:12
  in hand in your time with the Dodgers.
• 56:14
  I again core question and more going to open the floor for you
• 56:20
  to talk about individualization. I know I shared some of my
• 56:23
  thoughts on it or some of Ryan's responses, but please take it
• 56:27
  away. I'd love to hear some more about
• 56:30
  quote UN quote individualization, maybe where
• 56:33
  we can see some pros as well as cons.
• 56:36
  That. Theory and how it's used with
• 56:38
  athletes. Yeah, definitely.
• 56:39
  So real quick, like with Ryan, like Ryan Yoshi is one of the
• 56:43
  the smartest people in in the game and what he's doing with
• 56:46
  armor heats pretty special. He's a good friend of mine and I
• 56:49
  got to learn a lot from him being being with the Dodgers
• 56:52
  organization and and working with a lot of the minor league
• 56:54
  rehab guys that I did it at CBR at the Camberback Ranch, like
• 56:58
  working with him and just understanding like really like
• 57:00
  what specificity was for some of those guys.
• 57:02
  So it's like, OK, we can go down the rabbit hole and we can do
• 57:06
  all this fancy stuff that that that makes that all the sexy
• 57:09
  stuff in the weight room that makes us feel good as
• 57:11
  performance coaches. But that's not necessarily what
• 57:13
  they need. Normally they need something,
• 57:15
  again, we've kind of talked about it a little bit, but they
• 57:18
  need specific things that are going to allow them to go out
• 57:22
  there and do their job. So whether that's like a
• 57:24
  straight leg raise, they're they're not good at that.
• 57:26
  So like putting him in the split position and doing their low
• 57:29
  body stuff there, they're pull their lower body pushing there,
• 57:31
  their lower body pulling in a split pattern.
• 57:33
  Like giving them the ability to work on the things that they're
• 57:38
  limited in that specificity. So like the general things that
• 57:41
  they're they're lacking, you allow them to get better there.
• 57:45
  That's where you're specifically making them a better athlete,
• 57:49
  which will allow them to produce the skill at a higher level with
• 57:53
  less energy, which is training specifically.
• 57:57
  So I think that was one of the things that I got to learn from
• 57:59
  him. And then some of the other staff
• 58:00
  there's like really keeping it simple and understanding, like
• 58:03
  what it is that you're trying to, what it is that you're
• 58:05
  looking at. Like obviously the difference in
• 58:08
  6-8 pitcher and AA versus 511 second baseman and and rookie
• 58:14
  ball. Like it's completely different.
• 58:15
  And just understanding levers and understanding all the all
• 58:18
  the things that go into like street conditioning and
• 58:20
  performance at a global level. Being able to like look across
• 58:24
  that landscape and say, like, OK, where can I plug and play?
• 58:26
  What, like what can I pick from my toolbox that's going to vary
• 58:30
  Generally, I guess allow them to move better and to perform
• 58:35
  certain tasks more efficiently. That in lies the specificity
• 58:39
  understanding that. And it's like, OK, well, if it's
• 58:41
  an elbow or if it's a shoulder or if it's a hamstring strain,
• 58:44
  like, OK, well, let's look at like maybe why that happened.
• 58:47
  And it's like we're not able to specifically say what will this
• 58:51
  happen on this day because of X. Like a lot of times it's a
• 58:54
  perfect storm, like lack of hydration, lack of proper
• 58:58
  nutrition. Maybe on the bus a long time.
• 59:00
  Like like we're never able to go back and say, oh, this is
• 59:04
  exactly why this happened. But being able to look at the
• 59:07
  potential risk factors that 'cause that can then allow us to
• 59:11
  go back in and look at it and say, OK, if they're hydrated, if
• 59:14
  their nutrition's doing well, if they're able to to move and, and
• 59:17
  get off the bus and just do some different things and they're
• 59:20
  able to do their prep work. Maybe they haven't been doing
• 59:22
  their prep with them and preparing their body.
• 59:24
  OK, let's educate them on that front.
• 59:25
  Like sometimes education can be specificity in human movement,
• 59:29
  just allowing them to understand why that stuff so important.
• 59:33
  And unfortunately, at times it takes either a set back or
• 59:36
  something to really get people to open their eyes and say, oh,
• 59:40
  baby, this actually is super important for me.
• 59:42
  But I think I guess the cons of specificity that those are the
• 59:46
  pros. I think you just understanding
• 59:48
  like what specificity is and it's not getting something,
• 59:52
  getting a basketball and ripping it back and doing something like
• 59:55
  that's not specificity. That's just that could be a tool
• 59:57
  at times. Like sure, you can do some of
• 59:59
  those things like you can do some rebounds, you can do
• 1:00:01
  whatever. Like on the wall.
• 1:00:02
  Like yeah, there's there's definitely opportunities to do
• 1:00:05
  it a lot of different things. But I think the cons and
• 1:00:08
  specificity are when you try to do something that is so on that
• 1:00:14
  sports specific side, you lack the general performance in the
• 1:00:18
  general capacity which drives everything else.
• 1:00:21
  Just like building a house or just like what we were talking
• 1:00:24
  about earlier, like the foundation, being able to lay
• 1:00:26
  that foundation to go from there.
• 1:00:28
  If you just start over here on the specificity side versus the
• 1:00:32
  general, like you're, you're missing all of this stuff and
• 1:00:35
  you're trying to build a roof on two sticks as opposed to like
• 1:00:38
  pouring the foundation, building it properly, framing, like all
• 1:00:41
  that stuff, like that stuff can be missed.
• 1:00:44
  And without all of that, there is no specificity.
• 1:00:46
  There's just somebody who's super talented that has the
• 1:00:48
  ability to go out and do it every once in a while who those
• 1:00:51
  guys don't really get paid and they don't stay around a long
• 1:00:53
  time. So I think the, the specificity
• 1:00:55
  is in the generality, being able to go in there and plug that and
• 1:01:00
  understanding when to say like, OK, here's some some 3D strap,
• 1:01:04
  different 3D strap motions can be some different things that
• 1:01:06
  can be really specific to what they're doing.
• 1:01:09
  But again, it's teaching their their body a skill and teaching
• 1:01:12
  them how to get into that position right.
• 1:01:14
  Well. As I said, that would be the
• 1:01:16
  last kind of deep dive and now hopefully we can step it back,
• 1:01:20
  talk about some simpler stuff, want you to go into your podcast
• 1:01:24
  a little bit. Let's talk about you getting
• 1:01:26
  that started, kind of the mission for it and maybe some
• 1:01:29
  guess you hope to have on or the stories you hope to tell.
• 1:01:33
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks for that.
• 1:01:34
  The last week we had Caminosio, obviously, like I talked about a
• 1:01:37
  second ago, we're doing one tonight.
• 1:01:39
  Austin Beck, he is going to be an instructor here for us on the
• 1:01:43
  hitting side and he's going to help coach one of our 17 new
• 1:01:45
  teams. Awesome dude.
• 1:01:47
  He's from the area N Davidson High School, was committed to
• 1:01:50
  Carolina out of high school, drafted six overall by the A's
• 1:01:53
  back in 17. Super lucky to have him.
• 1:01:56
  He's one of the guys we're going to go in tonight and have
• 1:01:58
  Hardell going to reach Josh Hardell.
• 1:02:00
  It was is that Wake? He's now with Cleveland, Gavin
• 1:02:05
  Williams, who's behind me with Cleveland.
• 1:02:06
  I'm going to ask him here in a couple days.
• 1:02:08
  But really just trying to use as much of my network as possible.
• 1:02:12
  And you will have coaches on what college coaches will have
• 1:02:14
  professional performance coaches.
• 1:02:16
  One of my buddies is with the Vikings as a performance coach
• 1:02:19
  in sports science. Like talk to him about jumping
• 1:02:21
  on really the, the goal is to really teach people obviously
• 1:02:27
  locally and within our organization, but like globally
• 1:02:30
  as well. Like, and not necessarily the
• 1:02:32
  entire globe, but like globally within like what performance is
• 1:02:35
  and what baseball is and just sports in general.
• 1:02:37
  What development is, what it looks like, what it's not, what
• 1:02:40
  it takes to be successful at different levels of how some of
• 1:02:44
  these guys who have been successful and have had awesome
• 1:02:46
  collegiate professional careers up to this point, like where
• 1:02:49
  they started, What are some things that they did, what went
• 1:02:52
  well for them? What are some things that they
• 1:02:53
  wish they could have learned a little bit earlier?
• 1:02:55
  I'm just really giving them the platform to talk about their
• 1:02:58
  experience to, to teach some of our kids and some athletes just
• 1:03:02
  around the high school level and collegiate level, what it takes
• 1:03:05
  and, and how can they pick up a couple things that can
• 1:03:08
  potentially help them stay safe, be in a good spot, and do what
• 1:03:12
  they need to do to to go play the game to the level they want
• 1:03:14
  to. Perfect.
• 1:03:16
  And what is the podcast called as well as where can people
• 1:03:20
  check it out? Yeah, Ghost Carolina performance
• 1:03:22
  podcast and right now we're on YouTube.
• 1:03:24
  We will post those things to YouTube.
• 1:03:27
  Like I said, this will be our second one tonight.
• 1:03:28
  We're learning. I'll have to pick your brain on
• 1:03:30
  some different places to post them and how to get that
• 1:03:32
  rolling. We're excited, man, just to do
• 1:03:34
  that. I've obviously been on a lot of
• 1:03:36
  podcast and been on this side a lot, but I've been on the other
• 1:03:39
  side one time and it was pretty cool.
• 1:03:41
  And being able to grow that and just talk with people in the
• 1:03:44
  industry and, and get their ideas and really just provide
• 1:03:48
  value is what we're looking to do.
• 1:03:50
  Selfish benefits of being the one who gets to ask the
• 1:03:53
  questions is pretty much unrivaled.
• 1:03:55
  I, I've loved this experience. So yeah, I'm, I'm sure you'll
• 1:03:58
  love it too. I, I know you can ask some
• 1:04:00
  incredible questions and you'll probably provide some incredible
• 1:04:03
  value. Now, beyond the podcast, maybe a
• 1:04:07
  couple other things to plug. Where can people follow you,
• 1:04:10
  follow your programs, different things like that?
• 1:04:13
  Yeah, absolutely. On Instagram, we got, I think my
• 1:04:16
  handles Coach B Golden and then we have Ghost Lab NC and then we
• 1:04:19
  have Carolina Ghost. That's our that's our facility
• 1:04:21
  here. Those are our teams.
• 1:04:23
  We're we're trying to expand a little bit into some of the we
• 1:04:25
  have a social media manager who runs some of our TikTok stuff.
• 1:04:28
  That's not me. I don't really know how to do
• 1:04:30
  something just like any other, you know, business owner, I'm
• 1:04:33
  learning and trying to get stuff moving that way.
• 1:04:35
  But yeah, I would say probably on Instagram is the best place
• 1:04:37
  to find some of those things. And we'll, we'll post stuff
• 1:04:39
  there. People can reach out to me at
• 1:04:41
  carolinaghostbaseball@gmail.com. I would love to meet some people
• 1:04:45
  and talk and explain some of the things that we're doing.
• 1:04:48
  And then what makes us a little bit different in the in the area
• 1:04:51
  and just really just like you said, provide value and and walk
• 1:04:54
  alongside people and whatever part of their journey they're in
• 1:04:57
  from an athletic standpoint. Perfect.
• 1:05:00
  Well we obviously covered a ton today.
• 1:05:03
  This was a blast for me. I'm glad I got to pump your
• 1:05:06
  tires early on and actually tell you that story and how valuable
• 1:05:10
  you have been for us, even though maybe you didn't even
• 1:05:12
  know it. Again, thanks so much not only
• 1:05:17
  for the relationship we have, but providing this value to our
• 1:05:20
  listenership. Man, this was awesome.
• 1:05:22
  Thanks a ton for today and to all the listeners out there,
• 1:05:25
  thanks for laying back with us.