Latest / We Built This Brand / Breaking the Rules of Branding with Crystal Anderson of 3Headed Monster

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Breaking the Rules of Branding with Crystal Anderson of 3Headed Monster · We Built This Brand

• 0:00
  Crystal: -It wasn't just for funsies.
• 0:01
  Like, it impacted their business, 'cause every kid was like,
• 0:05
  "I need a Nutter Butter." Whereas before, no kid even knew
• 0:07
  what a Nutter Butter was, 'cause it was kind of an older brand.
• 0:10
  It's fabulous, but like, man, somebody over there got brave.
• 0:13
  Somebody was like, "That brand's dying. Do whatever you want."
• 0:15
  Like, it was probably one of those like, "It's fine. It's on its
• 0:18
  last leg." And then now it's one of their better success stories.
• 0:23
  Chris: Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we pull back
• 0:25
  the curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes
• 0:28
  challenging process of building something that matters.
• 0:31
  Today, I'm joined by Crystal Anderson, partner and chief
• 0:35
  strategy officer at Three Headed Monster, an independent
• 0:38
  Dallas agency built to help ambitious brands wreak havoc.
• 0:42
  Crystal cut her teeth at big shops like DDB, BBDO, and
• 0:46
  Publicis before betting on a scrappy startup agency.
• 0:50
  Over a decade later, Three Headed Monster is a two-time Ad
• 0:54
  Age Small Agency of the Year, working with Valvoline Instant
• 0:58
  Oil Change, Freddy's, Q-tips, and so many more brands.
• 1:02
  In this conversation, we get into why her riskiest
• 1:05
  career move turned out to be her safest, why focus groups
• 1:08
  lie, and how brands can make faster, gutsier decisions.
• 1:12
  So without further ado, here's my conversation
• 1:15
  with Crystal Anderson from Three Headed Monster
• 1:23
  Crystal, welcome to We Build This Brand.
• 1:25
  Crystal: Hi, how are you doing?
• 1:26
  Chris: Doing great, doing great.
• 1:28
  Glad to have you here and talking to you today about,
• 1:31
  um, Three Headed Monster and everything you do.
• 1:33
  Crystal: Yeah, thank you so much for, for having me.
• 1:36
  Chris: Absolutely.
• 1:37
  Um, so typically how we get started with this is
• 1:39
  just love to hear a little bit about your background.
• 1:42
  I know you came up through some of the biggest names in advertising,
• 1:45
  DDB New York, BBDO Chicago, Publicis Dallas, Sapient Nitro.
• 1:51
  Um, what did you learn through that journey,
• 1:54
  and how did you get to where you're at today?
• 1:57
  Crystal: Yeah, so I am a little bit of an unusual
• 1:59
  creature that I started and continued on my path in
• 2:04
  advertising, and I was always sort of in the strategy role.
• 2:07
  So I didn't do a lot of bouncing, but I
• 2:09
  got to experience a lot of great agencies.
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  Uh, but starting off in New York, it's kind of like going to- Ballet
• 2:16
  bootcamp, uh, you learn the fundamentals, you learn how to do it right,
• 2:20
  and then as, you know, those lessons get formed through, uh, different
• 2:25
  agencies' perspectives, coming to something like Three Headed Monster and
• 2:29
  starting it from scratch, all of that bootcamp rigor really then allows
• 2:34
  me to be experimentational here 'cause I have all that strategic rigor,
• 2:38
  but we can be a lot more creative in how it's applied to our clients now.
• 2:43
  Chris: Where did you get your start, I guess, in terms
• 2:45
  of deciding to leave those big agencies and start working
• 2:50
  for yourself and working in these smaller agencies?
• 2:52
  Crystal: Yeah, I mean, the trend started, uh, you know, over a decade ago,
• 2:57
  where the big holding companies were growing by mergers and acquisitions.
• 3:02
  And what that does is it means that a company like Publicis buys a company like
• 3:07
  SapientNitro, where I was, uh, and merges those two company cultures together.
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  You get a big mess.
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  Everybody's trying to figure out who's in charge, what
• 3:17
  form you're gonna use, what is our standard process,
• 3:20
  and really, that started to become very frustrating.
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  And Sean Rathbone, who is our founder, ran into him 12 years ago, and
• 3:29
  he said, "I'm starting my own thing. What do you think about that?"
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  And I said, "That sounds horrible," 'cause I love my job.
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  And, uh, entrepreneurship was not naturally
• 3:38
  in my blood, but he is such a smart creative.
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  He's the CEO of our company now, so he has a business mind
• 3:45
  as well, and he, he really convinced me that, you know, when
• 3:50
  you look at what was happening in our industry with all those
• 3:52
  mergers and acquisitions, it was only going to get worse.
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  It was only going to keep collapsing, and it was only gonna put people like
• 3:59
  us into a place where we were no longer creating our own destinies, basically.
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  So we decided to start Three Headed Monster, uh, and create the job we wanted.
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  And I think that the indie agency, you know, category has really boomed.
• 4:15
  You've seen it as the mergers and acquisitions continue, and as agencies
• 4:19
  like DDB continue to now no longer exist, there's more and more indies,
• 4:24
  and those are the folks that are really doing the most interesting stuff.
• 4:28
  It's a really cool group of people.
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  Um, and I, I think that this trend will continue of
• 4:33
  smaller, faster, more nimble, more creative agencies.
• 4:38
  Chris: Yeah, I mean, there's definitely, um- Definitely a trend
• 4:41
  away from bigger firms, and, you know, the consolidation makes
• 4:46
  it harder for people to keep consistent jobs, too, within that.
• 4:49
  I mean, when I, um, when I started, w- back before I started my
• 4:53
  career going into college, like, I had seen my dad get laid off.
• 4:56
  He worked for Bell South, which got acquired by AT&T, and I saw all that happen
• 5:02
  right before I went to college, and I was like, "Oh, nothing's gonna be…"
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  I, I just had this sense of like nothing in the future is gonna
• 5:08
  be as guaranteed as what my dad has had for most of his career.
• 5:11
  Crystal: Yeah, in the beginning of advertising,
• 5:13
  right, Mad Men days, they stayed forever.
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  You know, you just stayed at a place, and now, you know, the tenure of
• 5:20
  somebody can oftentimes been on the tenure of CMOs, which is what now?
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  Down to a year, to maybe 18 months.
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  And the turnover, and then the, again, the mergers and acquisitions.
• 5:29
  Between all of it, there's not a whole lot of steady security.
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  Uh, this industry never has had it, but you always had a false
• 5:36
  sense of that when you're in some of those bigger brands.
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  And now that I've been at the same place for 12 years, I mean, this
• 5:43
  is unheard of in our industry, uh, to stay at one place this long.
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  Uh, and it has somehow, this scrappy experimentat- you know, experiment
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  that we did, has become the most, you know, stable part of my resume that
• 5:56
  really doesn't exist anymore 'cause all those companies are now gone.
• 6:00
  Chris: So you mentioned that Sean invite-
• 6:02
  mentioned that he was starting his own business.
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  Did he invite you to join at that time?
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  Was that a little bit after the fact?
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  What, what point did you come into Three Headed Monster?
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  Crystal: Yeah, I was about six months into him and, uh, our other partner
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  getting started GarageBand style, literally at like a co-working space.
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  I think they got the legal papers going, working
• 6:21
  with some friends and family on some, some projects.
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  Uh, so I was pretty early into it, uh, but not from day one.
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  And honestly, for somebody like me who is a type A
• 6:32
  strategist, having them even a little bit, six months ahead
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  of me, like, okay, we're not gonna be in Sean's garage.
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  We have an office.
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  It was in the basement of a Chipotle, but an office.
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  And, uh, it was so much fun, the three of us
• 6:46
  getting this thing off the ground and started.
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  And yeah, it… That was when I got in, and,
• 6:52
  and we really just started working hand-in-hand.
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  I mean, when you… It was me, Sean's a writer by trade, uh, and
• 6:59
  Mark Ford, who was our other partner, was a design director, you
• 7:02
  know, from the West Coast, so think Nike packaging, logos, products.
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  Like, that was very unusual to have in an agency.
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  So that was also our secret sauce, was we're not just a creative
• 7:12
  agency, we're sort of a nuts to bolts solution for a lot of our clients.
• 7:16
  Uh, and it was, you know, yeah, it was a little bit
• 7:19
  GarageBand-y to start, and in some ways sometimes it still is.
• 7:23
  It still feels that collaborative even though we've grown.
• 7:26
  But that core essence of cross… There are no
• 7:30
  departments when you're all sitting together.
• 7:32
  You know, that was true with three people, and it's, it's true today of 40.
• 7:36
  Chris: That's, I mean, that's a great place to start
• 7:38
  too, having that… Those early days in a business are
• 7:41
  always really fun and always really nerve-wracking, too.
• 7:43
  It's like, "Is this gonna work?"
• 7:44
  Crystal: I, I mean, I could talk about it being fun now.
• 7:46
  I don't know how fun it always felt, uh, when we were not getting paid.
• 7:50
  Chris: Mm-hmm.
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  Crystal: There was a lot of sacrifice made in the beginning to, to
• 7:53
  get to where we are, but that also makes it feel more, uh, special.
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  Like if you've… I mean, not only obviously I am an owner, but you
• 8:02
  feel so much pride walking in and knowing that you've built this thing.
• 8:08
  I never had that pride.
• 8:08
  I'm not having that pride for Omnicom.
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  I mean, I love them.
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  They paid my bills for many, many years.
• 8:13
  But there's not a sense of ownership there and a make- maker's mindset
• 8:18
  that's like, "You're gonna do whatever it takes." It's like- I was
• 8:21
  always a hard worker, but the mind shift definitely, the wins are your
• 8:26
  wins, the losses are also your losses, so everything feels much bigger.
• 8:30
  But it's, you know, at this point I wouldn't trade it for the world.
• 8:33
  Chris: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's always, like, your baby,
• 8:36
  and there's always an emotional attachment to that.
• 8:39
  I mean, I've probably said this on the podcast before, but my, my business
• 8:43
  started right around the time of my first son being born, and that was…
• 8:48
  My wife likes to joke that we had two kids at once, so and she's not wrong.
• 8:53
  Crystal: Yes.
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  You're not wrong.
• 8:55
  Yeah, I feel like we're in the teenage years now.
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  We're, you know, we're 12 and a half.
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  We're about to be 13.
• 9:00
  Getting into those, to those teenage years, it's gonna be interesting to see
• 9:03
  where, you know, what's comes next, 'cause there's no way to predict any of it.
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  I mean, I've, that's the part of this that I've had to learn, of,
• 9:09
  like, this holding onto a sense of control that really doesn't exist.
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  You know, the marketplace, the category, economic factors, like, there's
• 9:18
  none of it that we can predict, but you just have to, you know, truly
• 9:21
  invest in yourself and, and the agency, and the ideas, and in our clients.
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  Uh, and it, it just, it continues to work
• 9:28
  out for us, so we've been very fortunate.
• 9:31
  Chris: So going back to the beginning, I know it's really nerve-wracking.
• 9:34
  Six months into the company, you're joining, everything's starting.
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  Like, what was that first moment where you're like,
• 9:39
  "Okay, I can breathe. This is really happening"?
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  I, I like to call it that moment of validation, you
• 9:45
  know, that someone's willing to pay for your services and
• 9:48
  willing to, willing to help you all get to that next level.
• 9:51
  Crystal: Yeah, it is funny, 'cause I always
• 9:52
  say, like, I've, I've not released the breath.
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  I you know?
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  Like, it's, it still feels like, okay, 'cause we're always having the next goal.
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  Like, is that gonna happen?
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  Is that gonna happen?
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  But I would say, you know, where it stopped feeling like three kids in a
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  garage band in the basement of Chipotle to a real agency was when we got
• 10:11
  that first AOR, and somebody really trusted us to bring their brand to life.
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  Uh, and at the time, it was a fun little scrappy frozen yogurt brand
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  out of Oklahoma City called Orange Leaf, and they let us- I love
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  Chris: Orange Leaf,
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  Crystal: by the way.
• 10:27
  Yeah.
• 10:27
  Yeah.
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  Okay.
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  Well, we did… They let us do a really fun campaign where it was an
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  animated orange unicorn who would basically the whole strategy was you
• 10:37
  do you, because you could customize your yogurt however you want, right?
• 10:40
  So it was, like, about self-expression, so hence the orange unicorn.
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  He'd go around preaching, and it was voiced by
• 10:47
  this insanely not family-appropriate comedian.
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  But to try to get him to be family-friendly for this was hilarious, and,
• 10:55
  I mean, those are still some of my favorite- videos and content that
• 11:01
  we created 'cause they just let us be so free with it, and that really
• 11:04
  got us into this path of, for better or for worse, like restaurants.
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  Like it just, you know, we don't wanna be a restaurant agency,
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  but we certainly know how to win in that category at this point.
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  So now we have, you know, four or five different restaurants,
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  and it's not unusual to- for us to have a handful of more.
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  We've been able to parlay that experience out into other franchise businesses,
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  so Valvoline Instant Oil Change and other things, 'cause there's a lot of
• 11:27
  playbooks that you can kind of lessons learned that you can take and apply.
• 11:32
  So it's been, yeah, it's been a great evolution since
• 11:37
  the days of the orange unicorn, but he still lives here.
• 11:40
  He's around.
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  The orange unicorn doesn't go anywhere.
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  He's part of our DNA.
• 11:44
  Chris: I love a good mascot.
• 11:45
  I'm a big fan of mascots and things like that, characters.
• 11:48
  I've actually made some, which is Yeah.
• 11:51
  We'll talk about that off-camera.
• 11:52
  Crystal: Okay.
• 11:54
  Chris: But yeah, I, I love that kind of thing, and, um, bringing a character
• 11:57
  to life and telling that story, that's sounds like a really fun place to be.
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  And that's something I noticed about your brand,
• 12:03
  is it's, it's very energetic, very interesting.
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  It's, um, a little, like you said, like
• 12:09
  garage band-y, like kids, little punk rock.
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  So where did the name Three Headed Monster come from?
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  Crystal: So Sean, being a writer, did have the name when he approached me.
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  And, you know, I don't know if I would've joined if it was
• 12:21
  called, you know, Rathbone Anderson, like a law firm, you know?
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  Like, we do wanna be different.
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  We're, we pride ourselves on being an agency that's all about
• 12:29
  disruption, so we ourselves had to disrupt our own category.
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  So having a crazy name like Three Headed Monster, it is a conversation starter.
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  It is, you know, e- even when you're calling the credit card company
• 12:40
  and you have to say what it is, they're like, "What is that? Tell
• 12:44
  me more." Like, I mean, we can't … Swag is a very important part
• 12:47
  of our culture, you know, and I've wearing, it becomes a uniform.
• 12:52
  I wear Three Headed Monster shirts all the time.
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  Just walking around, people will inevitably ask.
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  It in and of itself, it was probably the greatest branding
• 12:59
  decision that could've happened, was starting with that name.
• 13:02
  And while there were, you know, three partners, it, it is much more
• 13:06
  about the intention and the point of view of the agency, which was that
• 13:10
  story, design, and technology, uh, kind of interwoven at the core DNA.
• 13:16
  So while other agencies are working in their silos,
• 13:19
  we are just this agile beast that continues to mutate.
• 13:22
  We, again, work so collaboratively across
• 13:25
  departments, that you wouldn't know who's who.
• 13:29
  Sometimes the creatives appear as strategists,
• 13:31
  sometimes the strategists appear as creatives.
• 13:33
  It's, it's a mix of a bunch of smart, creative people solving business problems.
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  So hence the Three Headed Monster.
• 13:41
  Chris: I was about to say, that sounds like a bit of a three-headed monster.
• 13:44
  Crystal: It is.
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  It is.
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  And yes, the, the, the office is fantastic.
• 13:48
  We actually got to move into a new spa- We moved out of the
• 13:50
  basement of Chipotle into a space that was interim to this
• 13:54
  space, and we got to design the space from the ground up, and
• 13:57
  it was really fun because we got to put our branding in action.
• 14:02
  Uh, so you can see, like, I'm in a room called Drac right now.
• 14:06
  All of our rooms are named after monsters.
• 14:08
  We have Godzilla, Ghidorah, Drac, Ghost, Mummy.
• 14:11
  We, we love a good theme.
• 14:13
  Our biggest thing we do is a Halloween party called Monster Mash.
• 14:17
  It's, we invite all our clients, our vendors, our families, our friends.
• 14:20
  It's up to 200, 250 people.
• 14:23
  We don't do Christmas around here, we do Halloween.
• 14:25
  So we, we love a good theme.
• 14:28
  We love it.
• 14:28
  We, our employees are called monsters.
• 14:30
  Like, we don't refer to each other as employees or anything.
• 14:32
  We, you know, "How many monsters do we
• 14:34
  have?" We talk about our people as monsters.
• 14:38
  We stick with that culture, yeah.
• 14:40
  It's one of our, I think it's one of our greatest assets.
• 14:42
  Chris: I absolutely love that.
• 14:44
  Um, I am a little sad that you're not coming to me today from the Godzilla room.
• 14:48
  Crystal: Oh, yes.
• 14:49
  The Godzilla room is one of the bigger rooms, so
• 14:51
  for podcasting, one of the smaller rooms makes-
• 14:54
  Chris: I appreciate you keeping the acoustics in mind.
• 14:56
  Crystal: Yes.
• 14:57
  You're good.
• 14:58
  Chris: So I love, I love that idea, like, the
• 15:00
  name is really going through the culture too.
• 15:02
  It's not just a name that you're like, "Oh, yeah, we're Three
• 15:06
  Headed Monster because of this," and it's kind of a joke.
• 15:08
  It's like, no, you've, you've taken that and you've owned it, like,
• 15:10
  to the point of even throwing a party for Halloween every year.
• 15:13
  So you mentioned you've got some clients, um, that you're working
• 15:16
  with, like Valvoline Oil Change and, and things like that.
• 15:19
  What has led to you all growing and, and getting those types of opportunities?
• 15:26
  Crystal: What's really interesting and, you know, of
• 15:28
  course every pitch, that was a very long in-depth pitch.
• 15:32
  We oftentimes as an indie agency don't go through those
• 15:35
  more traditional pitch processes, but that one was, and it
• 15:39
  was very competitive, you know, started with 13 agencies.
• 15:44
  We always look at ourselves, we're like, "Are we the dark horse
• 15:46
  here?" But, you know, they were looking for something new.
• 15:49
  They were looking for something disruptive
• 15:51
  in a category that hasn't been disrupted yet.
• 15:53
  But when, you know, at the end of the day, when they, when they told us
• 15:56
  like, "This is why you won our business," it was m- it was the culture.
• 16:00
  It was the people.
• 16:01
  It was a cultural fit on both sides.
• 16:04
  I think that they saw that, you know, even the partners,
• 16:07
  we are heavily involved in the work we do still.
• 16:10
  We are not absent owners, and, you know, we, we are very proud of every
• 16:15
  single thing that goes out this door, and proud to put Monster on it.
• 16:19
  And, you know, when they see that, you know, we've been
• 16:21
  recognized for our culture, well, culture makes happy people.
• 16:24
  Happy people make happy work, and they stick around.
• 16:27
  And it's very common that we get asked, "Are the people in this
• 16:30
  room the people that are gonna work on our business?" It's one
• 16:33
  of the number one questions we get when we're doing new business.
• 16:35
  And that feeling like, "My team switched over so much at the last agency."
• 16:40
  You know, as we were talking about people leaving jobs so fast.
• 16:44
  There's a turnover, so then it's like, "I don't even know who
• 16:46
  my team is anymore." Like, we hear that a lot from clients.
• 16:49
  So when you have a culture like us, we have a really
• 16:51
  good retention rate that comes along with that.
• 16:54
  People wanna stay here.
• 16:55
  So, you know, we, again, we are only 12 years old.
• 16:57
  We have employees that have been with us for 10, you know?
• 17:00
  Like- Employee number four after the three of us is still with us.
• 17:05
  And so they also feel ownership of it.
• 17:07
  There's, you know, they've, they've seen every
• 17:09
  iteration and every stage of building an agency.
• 17:12
  Um, and some of them, you know, are just as, as big a
• 17:16
  representatives of being what Monster means, and our clients
• 17:19
  see that, and I think that that's what they're attracted to.
• 17:21
  Yes, every- g- there's lots of smart people, there's lots of
• 17:24
  creative people in this industry, but are these people I want to
• 17:27
  work with and have a relationship with and build my business with?
• 17:30
  And they, you know, they said that that was why we won,
• 17:33
  and, and it's continued to be a really great relationship.
• 17:36
  Chris: I always like it when, when you can rely on
• 17:38
  the same people being there year in and year out.
• 17:40
  I mean, it's, it's hard, and it's rare in some cases unless you get
• 17:44
  an owner involved in the production, but, you know, it, it is, it
• 17:48
  makes such a difference when you've got that long history of someone,
• 17:52
  you know, sticking with you all and, and working with the brand.
• 17:55
  Crystal: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:56
  Chris: When it comes to Valvoline, I was fascinated by that, by the way.
• 17:59
  What was… Well, I'm just really curious, what was the pitch like for that?
• 18:02
  'Cause the, the commercials I saw for it
• 18:03
  that you all have, it's just a fun campaign.
• 18:06
  I like the idea of, you know, your, your car is your steed.
• 18:09
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Chris: Where did that come from?
• 18:11
  Crystal: I always like to say we're, you know, a great agency
• 18:14
  needs to be paired with a really great client to make great work.
• 18:17
  Uh, and they came to the, to the table with a great
• 18:19
  brief, and it was this category is boring, rational.
• 18:25
  Like, let's take a playbook, uh, page out of insurance.
• 18:29
  Like, nothing is more boring than insurance,
• 18:31
  but h- how fun are those commercials?
• 18:33
  So there was sort of this idea of how can we learn from a different
• 18:38
  category, or how can we just think a little bit differently?
• 18:40
  Again, disruption, uh, to break category conventions.
• 18:44
  So a character, uh, we obviously know, is always something sticky.
• 18:49
  Um, so what's our Flo?
• 18:51
  What's our, what's our Jake from State Farm?
• 18:52
  What does that look like for us?
• 18:55
  And what really embodies what their strategy was, which is,
• 18:58
  you know, they have… It's Valvoline Instant Oil Change.
• 19:00
  They have Valvoline, which is a known brand name in
• 19:03
  the name, but the retail space of Valvoline Instant Oil
• 19:07
  Change is a relatively new brand trying to gain traction.
• 19:12
  Jiffy Lube, I would say, you know, everybody knows what a Jiffy Lube is.
• 19:15
  You know, Take 5 was coming up on the scene.
• 19:18
  Even though they had the big name, they really
• 19:21
  were not the, the leader in the category yet.
• 19:23
  So with this campaign, it was lean into the
• 19:27
  fact that we're the experts, like, we're smart.
• 19:29
  We have, we use, you know- The oil that everybody knows.
• 19:33
  We have techs that are trained more than anybody else.
• 19:36
  So there was a lot of good RTVs.
• 19:38
  Put it in a wrapper that somebody's gonna remember.
• 19:40
  Make it, you know, make it funny, make it
• 19:42
  memorable, uh, give us our campaign for five years.
• 19:47
  We don't want a one-year contract.
• 19:48
  We want a, we want a relationship that's gonna go on forever.
• 19:51
  That's also very unusual in any sort of process, right?
• 19:54
  So the, the process was actually very, very collaborative.
• 19:58
  They came with a great brief.
• 19:59
  We did the working session where we added to their brief, poked
• 20:03
  holes in their brief, uh, presented different strategic directions.
• 20:07
  And, you know, sl- from there, went into creative development.
• 20:11
  They got to see rough tissues on ideas, then they got to see the full ideas.
• 20:16
  They did wanna put ideas through copy testing, which was new for us.
• 20:20
  Um, again, we don't traditionally even go through a pitch
• 20:22
  process that is this long and meticulous, uh, very often.
• 20:28
  Uh, so, you know, we, we stand by our work.
• 20:31
  We're like, "Great, let's put it in."
• 20:33
  You know, our campaign did fantastic in that space.
• 20:37
  Um, so that is where we won the business.
• 20:41
  Yeah, so it, you know, officially started in January.
• 20:43
  The campaign kicked off in June, and, uh, it's been really
• 20:48
  fun to watch, and we're already starting on next year.
• 20:51
  Chris: Well, congratulations.
• 20:53
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 20:53
  Thank you.
• 20:54
  Chris: That whole campaign just seemed really clever.
• 20:56
  And the way it was done, like I, I totally see
• 20:58
  what you're saying about the insurance feel.
• 20:59
  Like, without it being insurance, obviously, but, like,
• 21:02
  just the fact that you have, um, a memorable character.
• 21:06
  I don't know what his official name is.
• 21:08
  Like-
• 21:08
  Crystal: He's the Ride Wrangler.
• 21:09
  Chris: The Ride Wrangler.
• 21:10
  I love it.
• 21:11
  Um, you know, having, having that I think will, will
• 21:14
  take the brand and the recognition of that a long way.
• 21:17
  Crystal: Yeah, I mean, the basics of branding haven't changed.
• 21:20
  Chris: Right.
• 21:21
  Crystal: We have so … And that's why when we say, like, what are the three
• 21:24
  essentials of modern marketing, our three heads, they are very timeless words.
• 21:28
  They're not- SEO, and now it's GEO, and social, and whatever.
• 21:33
  No, it's storytelling.
• 21:34
  It may be various forms of storytelling.
• 21:36
  It may have, it may be moving off of traditional TV into other
• 21:40
  various forms, but storytelling is at the heart of branding.
• 21:44
  Uh, you know, along with good strategy, knowing who you're talk- Like,
• 21:47
  the basics of strategy have not changed, and the basics of r- really
• 21:51
  beautiful, good design, whether it's… Has that moved from physical
• 21:55
  design to digital design, and now back to in real life experience design?
• 21:59
  Absolutely.
• 21:59
  But those basics stay the same, and that's where I kind of talk about,
• 22:04
  like, all that experience leading up to this point of, like, boot camp.
• 22:08
  You gotta become really good at the foundation so that you can be wild and crazy
• 22:12
  and do stuff like a six-foot-tall Q-tip, and be like, "That's wacky," you know?
• 22:17
  And p- people trust us because we're good at the basics of what
• 22:20
  good branding looks like, and we know how to make brands win.
• 22:24
  That then they allow us to do the crazy stuff, and the wild
• 22:27
  stuff, and, "Oh, you're gonna stick a guy on, on a car and have
• 22:31
  him ride it through the str-?" Yeah, that's what we're gonna do.
• 22:35
  Chris: Yeah, it, it takes building that trust
• 22:37
  first, and helping them see that it works.
• 22:39
  You, you mentioned something earlier about, um, and, and even in our
• 22:43
  conversation from y- um, earlier last week too when we were doing the pre-call
• 22:46
  for this, about making fast decisions, and how, again, like the, you mentioned
• 22:53
  earlier how doing the testing and stuff was kind of new, and a lot of that's
• 22:57
  because you all really work off of this philosophy of making fast decisions.
• 23:01
  Tell me more about that.
• 23:03
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• 23:34
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• 23:45
  Crystal: Everything moves much faster now.
• 23:47
  That, that's a huge difference than when I first started my
• 23:49
  career, where strategy had a year to come up with a strategy,
• 23:53
  'cause we had to do the segmentation first, then we had
• 23:55
  to do some positioning testing, maybe a conjoint study.
• 23:59
  Eventually, we'd get to a brief and some
• 24:01
  creative, and you would test the creative.
• 24:03
  And that was a very typical process, and it would take up
• 24:06
  to a year, year and a half to get the new campaign out.
• 24:09
  Culture moves too fast now.
• 24:11
  People's attention spans are six seconds, right?
• 24:14
  The scroll has changed everything.
• 24:17
  Uh, and I think that while, again, those fundamentals are the same, now
• 24:21
  you gotta find a way to gain attention in a very short attention span world
• 24:27
  that's very, very crowded, and everybody's attention is very splintered.
• 24:31
  So if you're making decisions based on how it has been 10
• 24:37
  years ago, I should say five years ago, you're already behind.
• 24:41
  You're already behind.
• 24:42
  Your competition will get there faster than you.
• 24:44
  You know, consumers will get past faster than you.
• 24:47
  And it used to be like, I mean, I wanna take CPG,
• 24:49
  which was a lot of my history was in the CPG world.
• 24:52
  Chris: Mm-hmm.
• 24:53
  Crystal: That's, I mean, heavy testing.
• 24:55
  I mean, PepsiCo, Krafts, you know, these
• 24:58
  companies are very used to getting all that data.
• 25:01
  But then look what's happening.
• 25:02
  You have brands like Grillo's Pickles and Fish
• 25:06
  Wipe Tin Can who just come out of nowhere.
• 25:08
  It's, like, literally a person who's making these things, and they're blowing
• 25:12
  up, and the big brands can't keep up 'cause they're not moving fast enough.
• 25:16
  These startups are toppling giants because they're just willing to move faster.
• 25:23
  They're willing to look like they're more agile.
• 25:26
  And so we've been trying to encourage our clients to get smart so that when you
• 25:33
  make gut decisions in the moment, they're based on something, but they're not
• 25:39
  paralyzed by, "I need research to tell me which direction to go at this point."
• 25:44
  It's like, "No, no. We've been smart enough, and we've learned, and we're
• 25:46
  listening, and we have our eyes open, and we have our hands, you know, on
• 25:49
  the pulse of culture, that we know this is gonna work." And guess what?
• 25:54
  It's, it's digital, it's social.
• 25:56
  It's, it's, it, it's no longer risking multimillion-dollar
• 26:02
  TV campaigns and, "Oh my gosh, what if it doesn't work?"
• 26:05
  Like, a lot of times it's, it's this more disposable
• 26:08
  mediums that, like- Allow you to experiment.
• 26:13
  And the, I think the brands that are winning are the
• 26:15
  ones that are willing to experiment, move faster.
• 26:18
  It's design thinking.
• 26:19
  It's fail fast.
• 26:20
  You know, it's how can we iterate, learn, move, keep going.
• 26:23
  Okay, now on to the next thing.
• 26:25
  Uh, and like I said, if the br- big brands don't do it, startups will.
• 26:30
  And they're … The, the direct to consumer thing is, it's working.
• 26:33
  With TikTok, everybody can be a star.
• 26:35
  Chris: And everybody can be a QVC salesperson, too.
• 26:37
  Crystal: Yep.
• 26:38
  Yep.
• 26:38
  Yeah.
• 26:39
  It's turned into … With TikTok Live and shopping, my
• 26:41
  goodness has it turned into basically just our version of QVC.
• 26:45
  I was like, "I don't think the kids know. This is, like, what
• 26:47
  our moms used to watch." But yeah, it's just now TikTok Live.
• 26:51
  Chris: Yeah.
• 26:51
  I, I have that thought every time I go, and I'm
• 26:53
  like, "Oh, I should buy that," and I'm like, "Wait."
• 26:56
  Crystal: Yep.
• 26:57
  I've been suckered into a thing or two.
• 27:00
  Chris: I was … I talked to somebody, um, a year or two ago about this and
• 27:03
  about impulse decisions, and it was really interesting because they talked
• 27:07
  about how, like, it's just such an emotional buy right now for people.
• 27:11
  Like, people are buying more emotionally, and they're buying
• 27:13
  without much information, but if the right person influences
• 27:16
  and says it, they're gonna go and, and be prompted to do it.
• 27:20
  Crystal: Absolutely.
• 27:21
  And I think that, like, I don't know.
• 27:23
  There's just this sense of, uh, disposableness.
• 27:28
  I don't know if, uh, if that's the right word, but you know, things like Shein.
• 27:31
  Uh, you know, disposable fashion has been a big thing.
• 27:33
  It's like the risk is low.
• 27:35
  Like, if you don't like the new pickle brand, that's fine.
• 27:38
  You tried the pickles, and you move on, you know?
• 27:41
  And, like, clothing trends, and, uh, they're not investing, especially, like,
• 27:46
  younger generations, they're not, like, looking for the next Louis Vuitton.
• 27:49
  In fact, they, like, almost are turned off by those big luxury brands.
• 27:52
  They're looking for, like, little luxuries, like the bag charm thing.
• 27:55
  They're looking for … It's very fast-moving, and those trends move very fast.
• 27:59
  Uh, and they're just … They're looking for something that makes them
• 28:02
  feel good in the moment, and then they're onto the next thing, you know?
• 28:05
  Right now it's a, it's a unicorn frappuccino.
• 28:08
  But if you've not- I don't know if you saw this,
• 28:10
  that they were buying them, so their sales are up.
• 28:12
  They had a great … Starbucks had a great sales day, and then
• 28:16
  pan over and people were throwing the whole, like, whole ones
• 28:19
  away, 'cause people aren't actually wanting to drink them.
• 28:21
  They're just buying them for the 'Gram.
• 28:23
  They're just buying because they look aesthetic.
• 28:25
  I mean- Tell me kids don't have money.
• 28:28
  I mean, they're $10 apiece, and they're, like,
• 28:30
  taking their cute pictures and then tossing.
• 28:33
  So that's the g- it's, it's a very fast-moving mentality,
• 28:37
  and so you don't have time to build a brand over years.
• 28:39
  You have to win in this attention economy very, very quickly.
• 28:43
  Chris: Yeah, and grabbing attention is probably the hardest
• 28:45
  thing right now because of how much is put in front of us.
• 28:48
  I mean, just going to TikTok and the buying experience, like, I
• 28:51
  swear sometimes I get on there and it feels like it's just QVC.
• 28:54
  Like, it is ad, short, ad, short, and I'm just like, "I'm done.
• 28:59
  I can't do this anymore."
• 29:00
  Crystal: Yeah, you're like, "I cannot watch this person
• 29:02
  tell me how delicious that shake is again." Yeah.
• 29:05
  Chris: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:06
  Exactly.
• 29:06
  Um, we, you mentioned something about keeping the, the
• 29:09
  pulse of culture and, and s- being tuned into that.
• 29:12
  How do you do that as a team?
• 29:14
  I mean, obviously you could just stay on TikTok and Instagram
• 29:17
  all day, but I'm sure there's a better way to do it.
• 29:19
  How does your team stay on top of the pulse?
• 29:22
  Crystal: Yeah, it's a, it's a couple of things.
• 29:23
  I mean, it is honestly a lot of living and breathing and social.
• 29:27
  Thankfully, we have people who are s- sort of dedicated to that discipline,
• 29:32
  um, and keep the agency abreast of like, "Okay, this is happening." And we
• 29:36
  have, I mean, as silly as it sounds, we have Slack channels that are like,
• 29:40
  you know, every morning it gets populated with news, category news, uh,
• 29:46
  trends, memes, social inspiration, like who's doing what, tech news, you know.
• 29:52
  So we all just try to… We do a lot of, uh, sharing, and a
• 29:55
  lot of people, everybody sort of tends to take part in that.
• 29:59
  So those don't come from just the strategy team.
• 30:01
  They can come from anybody.
• 30:03
  Um, but there's places like Reddit, Substack, uh, Social Listening,
• 30:08
  all of those, there's tools now that can pull all that information
• 30:11
  in, and you just have to be ears open and eyes open, um, to
• 30:17
  paying attention to the cultural conversations that are happening.
• 30:19
  And culture is one big pendulum, I like to say.
• 30:23
  Something's gonna become popular.
• 30:25
  Watch it.
• 30:25
  Give it a second.
• 30:26
  Give it.
• 30:27
  It's gonna come swinging back.
• 30:29
  And, you know, you're seeing that now with like, okay, social sucked
• 30:32
  every child and everybody into their phone, and now you're seeing
• 30:36
  like this trend of in real life experiences and anti-digital, and I
• 30:41
  want a phone that doesn't have anything but numbers on it, you know.
• 30:45
  Like, there- there's this want for the opposite, and that will continue.
• 30:49
  Those swings are gonna continue to happen,
• 30:51
  and you just sort of have to watch them.
• 30:53
  It's a pattern.
• 30:54
  If you've watched it long enough, you know where it's kinda going, and you can
• 30:57
  say, "Okay, I think this is gonna come up again next." Um, and that used to
• 31:01
  be you could sit back and again hire a company that was like a trends company.
• 31:06
  You could probably do some focus groups.
• 31:07
  Like, you're already done.
• 31:09
  It's, it's already done.
• 31:10
  It's, it's because the world is globally connected now and things are being
• 31:16
  shared in real time, the trends are m- the cycle of trends is much shorter.
• 31:20
  So you have to, as a brand, be able to stay on top of that
• 31:24
  without getting bogged down in traditional research methods.
• 31:28
  I also like to say the best focus groups are the streets.
• 31:31
  Like, you gotta go out.
• 31:33
  You've gotta go out and experience what's happening.
• 31:36
  And, you know, I'm a big… Personally, I love to travel, and I will
• 31:40
  go to other countries because stuff usually trickles to us in America,
• 31:46
  and you'll see like what is the fashion, what are the trends, what are
• 31:49
  people doing over in Europe or, you know, South America, and you're…
• 31:55
  Orange Leaf Yogurt, for, for instance, 11
• 31:57
  years ago, I told them about açaí bowls.
• 32:00
  I was like… 'Cause I went to Brazil, and I was like, "There's these
• 32:02
  things. You guys should do them And, and it blew up many years later,
• 32:07
  but I was like, "Oh, man, I'll pat myself on the back for that one.
• 32:09
  I was on top of it." But the trends come from other cultures.
• 32:12
  I mean, that's where the trends start.
• 32:14
  If, like, it's in the street, and it's usually urban culture that drives a lot,
• 32:19
  if you're not paying attention to that and you're just really living in your
• 32:22
  own world, you will miss a lot of really amazing opportunities to see where
• 32:27
  things are going, because it always starts somewhere and then gets to the mass.
• 32:32
  And if you're waiting till it gets to the mass so that
• 32:34
  you can have a focus group with a suburban mom that's
• 32:36
  gonna tell you something's cool, like, pfft, don't try it.
• 32:38
  Don't do it.
• 32:39
  Like, it's gone.
• 32:40
  Like, it's … By the time you get it on air, it's dead.
• 32:44
  Chris: Right, because not only do you have to hear that from the suburban
• 32:47
  mom that you paid to do the research for and schedule the meeting and
• 32:50
  do all that, but then that has to find its way to a research paper,
• 32:53
  and then that has to be suggested to your team, and then that has to be
• 32:57
  recommended, and then the ad has to be built, and that's six months from now.
• 33:00
  Crystal: Exactly.
• 33:01
  We've lost it, yep.
• 33:02
  Chris: And, and I mean, I, I completely agree.
• 33:04
  Like, it, it takes, like, actually being in the media.
• 33:07
  That's the one thing I hate about, you know, to a degree, what we do
• 33:10
  is, like, you, you have to, on some level, have all the social channels,
• 33:15
  and you have to be everywhere, because you do have to see and know
• 33:19
  how people are acting and reacting and what's trending right now.
• 33:22
  And, um, I always pride myself, my wife's a middle school teacher, if
• 33:25
  I know something before she does, I feel like I'm really in the know.
• 33:29
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 33:30
  I do that with my friends who have middle school children.
• 33:33
  I'm like, I send them stuff.
• 33:34
  I'm like, "Okay, you're gonna hear these words. Here's
• 33:35
  what it means." Like, you know, so they, they sort of look
• 33:39
  to me to, to be the forefront of some of those things.
• 33:44
  But it's, that's, you know, again, that is where it happens.
• 33:47
  I mean, it's amazing what vocabulary becomes
• 33:50
  mass that starts with 10-year-olds and a meme.
• 33:53
  And it's like, if you're not paying attention to that kind of stuff that
• 33:56
  seems so insignificant and a little silly, it's, it's gonna be everywhere.
• 34:00
  You know, we're, we're past Six7 at this
• 34:02
  point, but that started in a Ju- That's kids.
• 34:05
  Those were … You know, it started with, like, a, a song.
• 34:08
  It usually starts with a song or a meme.
• 34:10
  Chris: Mm-hmm
• 34:12
  Crystal: Or a video that comes from a song, or an influencer video, or something
• 34:16
  that happens, the kids adopt it, and then it spirals, and then by the … The
• 34:20
  mom hears it and thinks it's fun, and then by … Again, by that point, we're
• 34:24
  on the other side of the trend curve, um, 'cause now it's cringe, right?
• 34:28
  So th- you've g- you've gotta get in there early.
• 34:31
  You've gotta be listening.
• 34:32
  You've gotta be like, "That's … Is that
• 34:33
  a thing?" And I'm not sure if it's a thing.
• 34:35
  And again, it takes a brave brand to get in that early.
• 34:38
  We, you know, our brands tend to still be middle conservative, where
• 34:44
  it's like, "Show me five other brands are on it, and then I'll do it."
• 34:46
  And, like, we'll do that.
• 34:47
  But there are some brands who are out there taking the leap,
• 34:51
  um, and making sure that, you know, Dunkin' is one of them
• 34:55
  that's always comes to mind of some … They're just not afraid.
• 34:59
  But I promise you, suburban moms are buying Dunkin', but they're still,
• 35:03
  you know, not afraid on their social to always kind of be on top of things.
• 35:07
  Chris: That, I mean, it's, it's a challenge, right?
• 35:09
  Because you don't wanna be, like, unless you've just
• 35:11
  got a wild hair, you're not gonna be like Nutter Butter
• 35:14
  if … I'm sure you're probably familiar what they've done.
• 35:16
  Crystal: Oh, yeah.
• 35:16
  We've ch- we've presented it many a times to
• 35:19
  our clients, and you should see their eyeballs.
• 35:21
  'Cause most of them actually have never seen it.
• 35:23
  They're like, "What is this that you're showing?" And they're like, "W-
• 35:26
  why does this work?" And honestly, as a Gen X-er, I c- I don't know.
• 35:31
  I don't know why the kids think it's funny.
• 35:33
  They love it, though.
• 35:35
  And, you know, when we talk about it, it's this unhinged,
• 35:38
  uh, it's, it's not produced, it's not polished, so it's
• 35:41
  like a backlash, again, against what Instagram was.
• 35:45
  And it's, it's Gen A nonsense.
• 35:47
  And, uh, they just think it's the funniest thing ever.
• 35:50
  And actually, you know, I saw a case study presentation of Nutter Butter
• 35:53
  where, uh, they actually had sales results, and they showed where the actual
• 35:58
  im- business impact came once they started doing that crazy, unhinged social.
• 36:03
  And it, it wasn't just for funsies.
• 36:06
  Like, it impacted their business, 'cause every kid was like,
• 36:09
  "I need a Nutter Butter." Whereas before, no kid even knew
• 36:11
  what a Nutter Butter was, 'cause it was kind of an older brand.
• 36:14
  I mean, it's It's fabulous, but like, man, somebody over there got brave.
• 36:19
  Somebody was like, "You know what?
• 36:20
  That bra- I, I…" In my mind, the conversation was like, "That brand's dying.
• 36:24
  Do whatever you want." Like, it was probably one of those, like, "It's fine.
• 36:27
  It's on its last leg," and then now it's one of their better success stories.
• 36:31
  Chris: I'm always a fan of a, a brand that's brave enough to be
• 36:34
  unhinged, and impressed by the ones who do it successfully, because
• 36:39
  there's, there's always that risk that you're going to do something
• 36:42
  so dumb and so embarrassing that you're gonna have to walk it back,
• 36:45
  or it's gonna end up in the news, and, ah, it's such a challenge.
• 36:50
  Um, locally we have, um, Thombers is one of the agencies near us.
• 36:53
  Oh, yeah.
• 36:54
  Crystal: They're a fantastic agency.
• 36:55
  Chris: Yeah.
• 36:55
  And they, they, they did the Moon Pie campaign that got famous.
• 36:59
  Um, and I, I just remember that being the first time
• 37:02
  I think I was clued into like… I mean, not entirely.
• 37:04
  There have been social media commentators online before, but like
• 37:07
  this one was one of the first ones where I remember, like, oh, I
• 37:10
  can tie that to a person, and I can tie that to a brand in a way
• 37:13
  that I really like, and then watching other brands try to repeat it.
• 37:17
  Crystal: Yes.
• 37:18
  Chris: Sometimes it can't be repeated.
• 37:19
  It's just you had the right intuition at the right time,
• 37:22
  and you managed to make a joke that happened, and then all
• 37:26
  of a sudden that account became unhinged and hilarious.
• 37:29
  Crystal: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:30
  I mean, and there's a lot of that, like of either clients coming to
• 37:32
  us and being like, "We want this," and you're like, "Okay, it's…
• 37:35
  You can't just get that." Like, you have to look at, you have to
• 37:38
  sort of diagnose what worked about it, and it's not just the output.
• 37:41
  It was, you know, the thinking, to your point, right time,
• 37:44
  right place, right, you know, strategy, right client, you know?
• 37:47
  So s- a lot of times we spend dissecting, you know.
• 37:52
  If I… One more client coming to me, and
• 37:54
  I, it's like, "I need that Liquid Death.
• 37:56
  I need that," and you're like, "Okay, we can't all be Liquid Death.
• 37:59
  Let's talk about why it works for them, and what is
• 38:02
  the right version of that strategy for you," you know?
• 38:05
  And recognizing that there's lessons there that you can take and apply,
• 38:09
  but i- it's just 'cause that's working for them, it's n- that's not you.
• 38:13
  That's not gonna work for you.
• 38:14
  So a lot of strategy is, is leaning into those best imp practice,
• 38:19
  best practices and, and what's interesting about it, but a lot of
• 38:22
  what's interesting about Death Water is just they're just not afraid.
• 38:25
  Like, that's what I tell them.
• 38:26
  I was like, "That's the lesson. So what is your version of not afraid?"
• 38:29
  Like, and what is your version of unhinged in your category,
• 38:34
  um, so that it doesn't look like you're trying to rip it off?
• 38:36
  'Cause that's the other thing, authenticity.
• 38:37
  I mean, you're just gonna get dragged.
• 38:39
  I mean, there's so much of brands belong in the hands of consumers now.
• 38:44
  I mean, look what's happened with Neutrogena this week.
• 38:46
  Like, it is not good, and it's It is taking over
• 38:51
  any great brand equity that somebody can have.
• 38:53
  You, the brands can get canceled very quickly, or, you know, PR crisis, at
• 38:58
  least once a week you hear some brand getting into it, and it starts in social.
• 39:02
  So the brands belong to the people now.
• 39:05
  Like, that's where you have to foster, and
• 39:08
  you have to do what you say as a brand.
• 39:09
  You have to, you know, live values.
• 39:12
  You have to… You know, you're not just selling stuff anymore.
• 39:15
  So the job has definitely gotten harder in that respect.
• 39:18
  Chris: I, I would imagine.
• 39:19
  I mean, and I, I think it all goes back to what you were saying earlier.
• 39:22
  It comes back to building trust.
• 39:23
  Like, you had to build trust with your brand.
• 39:25
  That brand has to build trust with the, their audience,
• 39:29
  and they have to have that as one of their key components
• 39:31
  to making, you know, to being able to take that risk.
• 39:34
  And either they start with something unhinged
• 39:36
  enough to where you go, "Oh, that's weird.
• 39:37
  I like that," or it has to be something where consistently this brand has
• 39:42
  moved in a direction that you go, "Okay, I understand why they've gotten here."
• 39:46
  Um, this… I'm so embarrassed.
• 39:47
  I'm blanking on this one, the owl.
• 39:49
  Crystal: Oh, Duolingo.
• 39:50
  Chris: Duolingo, thank you.
• 39:51
  Yes.
• 39:51
  Like, that's another good example of one where, like, they just
• 39:54
  started on a whim, and it started being funny, and it turned
• 39:57
  into this whole thing about the owl being unhinged and crazy.
• 40:02
  Crystal: Yeah, they will absolutely…
• 40:03
  There'll be another one that go down of, like,
• 40:06
  social media history, that, you know, that brand.
• 40:10
  Which, again, I, like, think about, it's not an exciting product, you know?
• 40:15
  Like, uh, for what it is, and it's not a… There's plenty of
• 40:18
  apps, actually, you can probably learn languages on, right?
• 40:20
  And somebody over there was brave enough to go, "Yeah,
• 40:24
  go over there and play in social," and kind of recognize
• 40:26
  it can be experiment, you know, it can be an experiment.
• 40:29
  It's, it's low risk.
• 40:30
  It's social.
• 40:30
  Kind of go.
• 40:31
  And yeah, that social strategist, um, you know, I know she was
• 40:35
  on the speaking circuit for a bit, but to hear her talk about
• 40:38
  it, it's just, you know, it's opportunity, it's braveness, it's
• 40:42
  smart enough to suggest it, and a lot of things working for them.
• 40:46
  But yeah, you can't replicate that.
• 40:48
  That was, that was that.
• 40:50
  So what comes next for, you know, our people is, I, you know, that's what
• 40:54
  we're always trying to push for, of like, okay, yes, learn and adapt.
• 40:57
  What's the next thing?
• 40:59
  Chris: Well, and to that point, what is next?
• 41:01
  What do you, what do you see as being top of mind right
• 41:04
  now that you're looking forward to in the next year or so?
• 41:07
  Crystal: Yeah, I think, as I talk about pendulums swinging, I think
• 41:10
  there's a real backlash brewing over- Obviously, AI is a hot topic, but,
• 41:19
  you know, a year ago, I think everybody was panicked it was taking all our
• 41:23
  jobs, and it was … And I think now it's the consumers are rejecting it.
• 41:28
  It's very interesting to watch in the marketplace.
• 41:30
  We do use AI.
• 41:32
  We use it as a tool, uh, not a replacement.
• 41:36
  It, it helps us be more efficient in a lot
• 41:38
  of ways, but we are still big fans of craft.
• 41:41
  And I think what you're seeing is that people are going
• 41:45
  back to that need for like, prove to me it's real, right?
• 41:49
  So you see a lot of social that's a behind the scenes,
• 41:51
  like, "Look, it's real people shooting, and it's real food."
• 41:55
  Like, they're … Like, brands are now trying to prove it's
• 41:58
  real, and I think what that's translating to is also in real-life
• 42:02
  experiences, which obviously, like, COVID killed, right?
• 42:05
  We all thought that was dead for a while.
• 42:07
  Um, every poor experiential agency had a tough run of it,
• 42:12
  and that's, that's booming again, and I think that that's
• 42:15
  gonna continue, where people are just craving to get off of
• 42:20
  the, the digital, uh, experience and back to f- tangibility.
• 42:26
  You know, so you see a lot of brand activations, um, you see a
• 42:30
  lot of, like, old school crafting and knitting and candle-making
• 42:36
  and, like, all this stuff coming to start popping up.
• 42:39
  And, you know, here, here in Dallas, uh, there's … And I, I
• 42:42
  think I've seen it sort of happening in other cities too where
• 42:46
  online dating is just like people are revolting, and now there's
• 42:49
  brands here where they've created meet-in-real-life opportunities.
• 42:54
  So, you know, one girl just started her own little thing
• 42:56
  where it was like, "Okay, we're gonna meet on the Katy
• 42:58
  Trail," and it's, you know, just where people go walking.
• 43:02
  Um, and it was called Dady.
• 43:04
  She started it.
• 43:05
  It's just like, "I'm gonna be there with five of my single
• 43:07
  friends," and then, like, it's … She has built a brand.
• 43:10
  Like, it's happening.
• 43:11
  And it's like, man, there was that many desperate people for human experience.
• 43:15
  Like, that says something.
• 43:17
  Like, so I think that that desire for brands to really produce
• 43:21
  tangibility and not just live online and not just be direct to
• 43:25
  consumer and be a website, like, you have to be more than a website.
• 43:28
  Like, you have to be in real life in some way.
• 43:31
  And then that real-life experience has to tell your brand story.
• 43:34
  Like, it has to be quality.
• 43:35
  It has to, like, live up to The promise that you're making, you know, what
• 43:41
  does that, that feel like for the consumer when they're experiencing it?
• 43:46
  So, uh, I think that that's gonna be a trend
• 43:50
  that's gonna continue here as we move forward.
• 43:52
  Chris: Yeah, I mean, we're, we're seeing it in so many ways.
• 43:55
  I mean, even, even what's top of mind where I live right now is the flock
• 43:58
  cameras, and, you know, like, that, that whole thing about Big Brother watching
• 44:04
  you and, you know, the … what that can be and how dangerous that can be
• 44:08
  or scary that can be for people, like, there's just a revolt against that.
• 44:12
  I mean, I see all over where even- even sometimes my TikTok feed is like,
• 44:16
  "Here's how, if you were to … I'm not saying you should do something about
• 44:20
  this, but here's how you could take care of these if you wanted to," and-
• 44:23
  Crystal: Yeah
• 44:24
  … Chris: it just, it's, that, there's that and then, yeah, like the,
• 44:27
  the need for in-person, I'm seeing that a whole lot right now.
• 44:30
  So yeah, that's, I think it'll be interesting to see how that develops over
• 44:34
  the next year because at the same time you have, like you said, you all use AI.
• 44:39
  Like, I know our team uses it on some level.
• 44:42
  Um, you know, the level at which, you know, we're being
• 44:44
  transparent about that is, you know, very high, but also where,
• 44:48
  where does it make sense to use and where does it actually make
• 44:51
  sense to use in a way that's beneficial and not making a mess?
• 44:54
  I've just in the past week seen so many instances of
• 44:57
  things where I'm like, "I know this was developed by AI."
• 44:59
  Crystal: Oh, we … It's so easy to spot now.
• 45:01
  Chris: People I know are, are like, um, having to walk
• 45:05
  back things they've done on AI just because they're like,
• 45:08
  "Oh, I tried this thing and oh, that doesn't work right.
• 45:10
  I gotta
• 45:10
  No," you know?
• 45:12
  It works fir- great the first two or three times, then
• 45:14
  all of a sudden it becomes a monster and n- no offense.
• 45:18
  Uh.
• 45:18
  Crystal: No pun intended.
• 45:19
  I know.
• 45:20
  We're good monsters though.
• 45:21
  But
• 45:21
  Chris: yeah, you're the good monsters, but yeah.
• 45:23
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 45:23
  It's, it's … So I think that's, you know,
• 45:25
  everybody's gonna continue to grapple with AI.
• 45:26
  It's the t- the topic du jour everywhere.
• 45:29
  But I do think that out of that is actually this rejuvenation
• 45:33
  of craft, and that I'm really excited about just 'cause I think
• 45:36
  it, it actually will, where it was s- scary at first, I was
• 45:40
  just like, "Oh, no, we're gonna win." I think craft will win.
• 45:43
  I think people are demanding it.
• 45:45
  Chris: Yeah.
• 45:46
  That and in-person events too.
• 45:47
  I'm noticing a lot of that.
• 45:48
  I could see brand activations and things becoming really big.
• 45:52
  Crystal: Again, people want to interact with people.
• 45:54
  They want community, they want connection, and
• 45:57
  there's just something about brands and action.
• 46:00
  So when a … Part of our brand strategy, actually, like we don't have
• 46:03
  brand purpose, brand positioning, all those kind of, uh, traditional
• 46:07
  labels for that core brand idea, we call it a disruptive brand action
• 46:11
  because it needs to be disruptive and it needs to be action-oriented.
• 46:15
  It needs to tell you what to do, not what to say, 'cause- Uh,
• 46:18
  just like people, what you do is more important than what you say.
• 46:20
  I can talk all day long, uh, but if those values are not seen in actions
• 46:25
  that I'm providing value to somebody, like, the consumers will move on.
• 46:29
  So those are the brands that are winning, that they're actually
• 46:31
  putting their brand story into action and giving consumers something,
• 46:37
  some kind of entertainment, some kind of experience, some kind
• 46:40
  of a, you know, a tear, a cry, a laugh, you're feeling something.
• 46:44
  That's still the core of the job.
• 46:47
  Chris: Yeah.
• 46:47
  And it's great how we keep coming back to the basics.
• 46:49
  Crystal: Yeah, I know, yeah.
• 46:50
  It, it real- it really is.
• 46:51
  Like, they're just applied in a different place,
• 46:54
  but it, yeah, it's all about the fundamentals.
• 46:57
  Chris: As we wrap up, I always like to ask this question at
• 47:00
  the end, which is, what brand do you admire the most right now?
• 47:03
  We talked about being close to the pulse, so is there one that
• 47:05
  you feel like is really feeling it and doing the best, or…
• 47:09
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 47:10
  I mean, mine is so silly, but I keep harping on
• 47:13
  it with my team, and they think I'm ridiculous.
• 47:15
  So I think one of the places that brands are winning and
• 47:18
  creating connection and creating personality is actually
• 47:21
  not in their own social feeds, it's in the comments.
• 47:24
  So it is the place where the most unhinged-ness is happening.
• 47:29
  Uh, and, and Pillsbury, that little dough boy is everywhere.
• 47:34
  Like, just start noticing.
• 47:35
  He comments on everything.
• 47:36
  I don't know how many people they have doing it, but it's cra- it cracks me up.
• 47:40
  He's just every- he's on Dunkin's, he's on Pizza
• 47:42
  Hut's, he's on, like, he's, like, the, the…
• 47:44
  They're everywhere.
• 47:45
  And I just think that they've taken that, like, little iconic
• 47:48
  dough boy, which we all know and love, and, you know, it's been
• 47:50
  around for generations, but he's a little sassy on the social.
• 47:55
  Like, it's a great example of, like, evolving,
• 47:57
  but they just, they do it in the comments.
• 47:59
  Like, their feed isn't crazy.
• 48:01
  Like, there's nothing that crazy about what they're putting out as
• 48:03
  far as content, but, like, that they're actually acting as a person.
• 48:07
  So that brand as a person thing, I think, is clutch
• 48:10
  for, uh, to get in front of new eyeballs, too.
• 48:14
  So you're like, it's borrowed attention 'cause
• 48:16
  you're commenting on somebody else's stuff.
• 48:18
  But that brand just is tapping into that doing really well.
• 48:22
  And then the other one that I just like, I'm always
• 48:24
  impressed by boring brands, no offense, that are, like, doing
• 48:29
  crazy… I think the TSA won the summer, like, World Cup.
• 48:33
  Like, their social media was real time, it was funny, it was like, like
• 48:41
  how fast they were to react to things that were happening and, like, the
• 48:45
  ranch phenomenon, that, like, everybody was trying to take ra- ranch home.
• 48:48
  And they were, like, commenting on it.
• 48:51
  Um, it's the TSA.
• 48:52
  Like, never in my life would I be like, "I need to go follow
• 48:54
  the TSA social account." Like, that's one of those things where
• 48:57
  you ask, "Why does TSA have a social account?" But whoever is
• 49:01
  behind that account did really well as well, just, I think, doing
• 49:05
  that real time cultural- moments and, and having a personality.
• 49:11
  Again, you're there to entertain me.
• 49:12
  You're not there to, like, pe- most people are not
• 49:14
  going to social to read boring promotional copy.
• 49:18
  They're not going there to be sold to.
• 49:19
  So, you know, it's two really traditional
• 49:23
  brands, but that's what I'm most impressed by.
• 49:26
  I- it's not that it's easy to start up a brand
• 49:28
  and be crazy, but, like, you have no baggage.
• 49:32
  If you can turn around a legacy brand and make it
• 49:35
  relevant today, I think that's one of the hardest jobs.
• 49:37
  So I'm always, as a strategist, super impressed when brands are doing that.
• 49:41
  Chris: I like the unhinged comment section type gags that the brands can do.
• 49:47
  It can be a challenge, but yeah, it does take, uh, you know, it
• 49:50
  do- like, done well, it always is memorable and entertaining.
• 49:54
  So I love that.
• 49:56
  Crystal: Yeah.
• 49:57
  Chris: Yeah.
• 49:57
  Well, thank you so much for coming on today.
• 49:59
  Where can people connect with you?
• 50:00
  Where can they find out more about Three Headed Monster?
• 50:03
  Crystal: Absolutely.
• 50:04
  Uh, website is probably a great place to go, so
• 50:06
  it's three, the number threeheadedmonster.com.
• 50:09
  Uh, that's a great place to connect.
• 50:11
  Uh, Kat's information up there.
• 50:13
  She's our new business developer.
• 50:14
  Um, she's fantastic, so much fun.
• 50:17
  And then I'm on LinkedIn, you can find me there.
• 50:20
  And then we also have our social media.
• 50:22
  So we are most active on Instagram and TikTok,
• 50:26
  but yeah, that's the great place to connect.
• 50:29
  Um, and happy to answer questions for anybody
• 50:32
  who has direct questions, wants to reach out.
• 50:34
  Happy to have a coffee.
• 50:36
  I love to talk, as you can tell, so, and no short of opinions over here.
• 50:42
  Chris: I'm sure we could keep talking for, for much longer, but-
• 50:45
  Crystal: I appreciate the opportunity.
• 50:47
  Chris: Absolutely.
• 50:47
  Happy to have you on today.
• 50:49
  Thank you so much, and, um, yeah, we'll see you next time.
• 50:52
  Crystal: Sounds great.
• 50:53
  All right, bye.
• 50:56
  Chris: Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
• 50:59
  Don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe on your player of choice.
• 51:03
  You can also keep up with the podcast on our website at webuiltthisbrand.com.
• 51:08
  If you like this episode, please give the podcast a five star review and make
• 51:12
  sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.