Latest / The Divorce Decision Podcast / Ep. 67: The Pain You’re Trying to Avoid May Be the Pain You’re Prolonging

Transcript

Ep. 67: The Pain You’re Trying to Avoid May Be the Pain You’re Prolonging · The Divorce Decision Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Divorce Decision Podcast, the show for couples asking the most painful question in marriage.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Should we stay or should we go?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: If your marriage feels heavy, confusing, or painfully uncertain, you're not alone.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're leaning towards divorce or hoping to rebuild your marriage, my desire is to help you find clarity.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Carrie Hoskins.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get started.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hey there, everyone.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Divorce Decision podcast.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Carrie Hoskins, and I want to ask really quickly before we begin if this podcast resonates with you or you are finding it helpful.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: In any way, would you please take just a minute and leave me a review?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: The more stars, and frankly, the more reviews I get.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes it easier for other people who are struggling to find this podcast.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'd really appreciate it.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So today what I want to do is I want to talk to you about a very specific type of pain.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm putting air quotes around the pain, okay, that is keeping you stuck in indecision about your marriage.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I call this anticipatory pain.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And almost every client I've worked with has experienced this in one form or another.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's my guess that you probably are too.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: But here is the deal.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I want to talk to you about this today.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: The things that you're anticipating happening, and the pain and the heartache that you are trying to avoid may actually be the exact type of pain that you are prolonging.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that you are um continuing to experience just exactly, you know, where you're at right now.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm working with a man right now who feels super stuck.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the reasons because he's anticipating and worrying about the possible bad things and possible bad feelings that he might, you know, experience once he makes a decision.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And he has this anticipatory pain around both staying and leaving, which is one of the reasons why he feels just kind of like stuck and confused.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: So he's been married for 15, just a little over 15 years.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's a really good guy.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: He shows up for his wife and his kids, he takes care of business, right?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Takes care of things.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he is incredibly lonely in his marriage.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's other stuff going on too, but that's the part kind of that I want to talk about.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: He feels disconnected from his wife emotionally.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't had sex in almost two years.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: He feels resentful and conflicted and just confused about what he would what he should do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening to this podcast, my guess is that you are probably experiencing uh many of the same emotions as well.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here is where the anticipatory pain comes in.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's afraid to commit to staying because he can only picture more of the same, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's only able to imagine that the next 20 years will look exactly the same as the past 15 years, which, in his words, is depressing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So he's anticipating more of the same while continuing to show up in his marriage and participate in their dynamic the same way, right?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so nothing changes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if nothing changes, then nothing changes.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: But he's also afraid to leave because what if he ends up alone?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: What if he never finds love?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: What if he walks away and it's just him alone in a quiet apartment, eating by himself, you know, every night at dinner?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: His kids might, you know, hopefully visit every other weekend.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what I had him do one day was just walk me through what it looked like in his mind being alone, not finding love, eating dinner all by himself.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked him, you know, to tell me how it feels.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So he started to describe it, how it would feel to come home and there isn't anyone around to listen to him talk about his day.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: There was no one there that cares.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he described what it feels like five years from now, not to feel loved and connected with someone.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And about halfway through, and I'm not even exaggerating, you guys, halfway through, you know, him walking me through this, he just like stopped.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he stopped because he realized that he wasn't describing his future, he was describing his life as it is right now, like his Tuesday.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the pain that he's afraid of experiencing, the stuff that he wants to avoid and that is keeping him stuck, keeping him like frozen from making a decision either way, is already happening.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's keeping him and so many of you in this place of confusion.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You think that the worst pain comes after you make the decision to stay or after you make the decision to leave.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, you're already living a lot of it.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're already experiencing much of what you're afraid that you're going to experience.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's really important to acknowledge that the pain that you're used to, um, the really hard emotions that you've become accustomed to, they don't feel like a choice.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of feels like you're living life, but it's actually a choice, one that many of you are making day after day and year after year.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it is prolonging your pain.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's prolonging the very thing that you are trying to minimize.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And some of you, honestly, are just trying to avoid it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a difference between committing to staying on purpose and staying by default.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what I see is people staying by default.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Staying on purpose sounds like I see what's happening, I acknowledge what's going on inside of my marriage, and this is what I'm gonna do about it.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm and I'm gonna find out if things can change.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Staying by default sounds like, I think I'm just gonna wait until after the holidays.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then after the holidays, it's well, I'm gonna wait until spring break is over to make a decision.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's summer, and then it's after Jack starts college, right?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then next thing you know, another 10 years has gone by.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So here is my point.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not dealing with it is the one way to guarantee that that pain that you are trying to minimize and or avoid, it guarantees that that pain sticks around.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: The disconnection, the lack of emotional intimacy, the lack of sex, whatever it is for you, whatever is missing in your marriage.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't deal with it, it doesn't go away.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So what I want to do is I want to just kind of give you an exercise that you can do.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I would really encourage you to pick someday this week, pick a day in a time that you're gonna sit down and do this.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're gonna do with this exercise is it's like an awareness exercise.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to grab two pieces of paper.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And on the first piece of paper, I want you to brainstorm all of the fears that you have about the future if you stay, and the fears that you have about the future if you um, you know, decide to separate or divorce.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And next to each one of those things that you fear, I want you just to write like a dash and the feeling that you anticipate feeling.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, my client feared staying.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, it was staying and nothing actually ever changing, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that feeling was he was afraid that he would feel miserable and trapped.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of the fears he had with living leaving is he feared eating dinner alone because then he'd feel lonely all of the time.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you get it?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I really want you to think about this.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you are afraid of happening if you stay and what feelings go with that?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then what are you afraid of happening if you leave and the feelings that go with that?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, on the second piece of paper, I want you to write down what's actually happening inside of your marriage right now and how you are currently feeling.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: So with my client, he hasn't made the decision yet and he's like just, you know, staying by default.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess now that doesn't really count because he's working with me and we're making changes.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But when we did this exercise, he was going through the motions and he was, you know, feeling miserable and feeling stuck.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there aren't any meaningful conversations happening with his wife.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't any or isn't any emotional connection, and he feels alone.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I want you to spend time with this.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Brainstorm all the things that are going on inside of your marriage, write it all down, and then write down next to it how you feel.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Then what I want you to do is put those two pieces of paper side by side.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to either highlight or circle on each, you know, uh piece of paper those feelings.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I want you to do after that is compare the feelings on the first piece of paper with the feelings that you wrote down on the second piece of paper.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I want you to look at the overlap.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the similarities?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that first piece of paper, that is your imagined paper.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Most of those feelings that you wrote down on that piece of paper are your what-if feelings.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't actually know if those things are going to happen.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the what-if, the bad what-if feelings you have, you know, roaming around in your mind.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: The second piece of paper is your guaranteed paper.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the piece of paper that is showing you what is going to continue unless you do something about it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because these are your what is, it's what is currently happening.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I just want you to notice how much of the pain you're afraid of experiencing is already happening inside of your marriage.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's already, you know, something that you're experiencing on a fairly regular basis.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to repeat what I did in the beginning, what I said in the beginning.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that you fear, the thing that you're trying to minimize, that pain that you're trying to minimize and maybe trying to avoid, may actually be the pain that you are prolonging.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, unless you are Ross and Rachel, you don't make a decision from those pieces of paper, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But you might see something that you haven't let yourself see.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that awareness is one of the things that I personally think is really, really important when you are trying to make a decision from a place of clarity.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so before I go, you guys, if you are feeling stuck or confused about what to do regarding your marriage, then I really encourage you to go take my should we get a divorce quiz.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can find that at kahoskins.com.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: I also put the link in the show notes for you.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to help you see more clearly what is actually going on in your marriage.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're ready to stop going in circles and start getting clear, that is exactly what my 12-session marriage crossroads coaching series is for.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have a series for individuals, and I also have a series for couples.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're interested in that and you would like to talk to me, um, I would encourage you to book a consultation.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's at kahoskins.com.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I also put uh the link in the show notes.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the last thing, I had this like little epiphany with my coach the other day about social media.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I used to love social media and I don't anymore.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I will know if anybody else is feeling like that too.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just kind of feel like social media has lost the social aspect.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want to bring that back.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've made a commitment to start sharing with you all on social media more about my life and behind the scenes and the good stuff that's happening and the hearts that that's happening, and just again, making it more social.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to like go in that endeavor with me, um, that would be super fun.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you're interested in that, then please find me at Carrie Hoskins Coaching on Instagram and on Facebook.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then depending on what I'm posting that day, maybe even TikTok, we'll see.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that's something else fun that I'm looking forward to starting.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually going to be starting that today.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, all right, my friends, I hope that you found this helpful.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I am Carrie Hoskins, and this is the Divorce Decision Podcast.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll talk to you next week.