Latest / The Messy Middle Podcast / 23 | Dating After Abuse: Slower, Safer Sparks

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23 | Dating After Abuse: Slower, Safer Sparks · The Messy Middle Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Messy Middle, the podcast for women navigating the raw, confusing, lonely aftermath of narcissistic abuse and emotional control.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Erica Leon, trauma-informed abuse recovery coach, mom of five, and creator of the six keys to unfuck with the ball.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you're picking up the pieces, questioning everything, and trying to remember who the fuck you were before you were so carefully erased, you're in the right place.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hello again, welcome back to the Messy Middle podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Erica Leon.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is about dating after abuse.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: When red flags feel good and the good stuff feels off.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oof.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know this is uh ahead a little for some of you, and if you're in the stage where this makes you feel physically ill, I get it.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Switch to the next one.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for all my peeps who are actually in this phase, I hope this really helps.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's a biggie.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So something strange that happens when you get to the point where you even consider dating again.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not straight away, usually, but there is often a whole stretch where the idea of dating, having another human being even near you feels like too much and awful, and you hate the thought of it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you've just fought your way out of something that took a lot out of you, emotionally, mentally, sometimes physically, often financially, and the last thing you want is to open that door again.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the odd thing is, slowly something begins to shift.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not always, but often.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not as on edge all of the time, and you're not constantly thinking about your ex-partner.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea of meeting someone new doesn't feel completely insane anymore.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of you dip a little toe in.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Often for people, this means getting on the dating apps.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I had some kind of sound effect to put in the omen music right here.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where things can start to get a little confusing because what you expect is that you'll be better at spotting things.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: That you'll just know now that you've learned your lesson, so to speak, and in some ways you most certainly have.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there's another layer that I want to just bring to your attention as always, so you don't feel as alone in this, and you don't feel like you're going nuts.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that issue is your body is likely still wired to respond to what it got used to.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So your nervous system is doing its one and only job of keeping you safe, and that usually means keeping things familiar, and your body almost craves what's familiar, even though intellectually you know that is unhealthy slash harmful.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: And often it comes in the form of this feeling of chemistry.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's still a little imagining.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: You meet someone, they're confident, they're intense, they're really interested really quickly.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear this in my support group meetings every week.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: They text a lot, they want to see you again immediately, they're saying things that feel big, and your body responds.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a pull, kind of energetic pull, and it feels like chemistry.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: It feels familiar, and that's the part that's really important.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It feels familiar.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you've come out of a relationship that had a ton of volatility, a lot of highs, a lot of lows, a lot of emotional roller coastering, unpredictability, a lot of emotional intensity, your system got used to that, and that's its normal.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you might have got used to reading between lines when they're actually saying something and what you actually feel, punishment that you know is coming, trying to always work someone out, feeling pulled in and really grateful to be there and then pushed away again, excluded, affection cut off, and having to earn it back all the time.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you were always wondering where you stood, and that creates this certain kind of activation in your body.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when you feel that activation again, it can feel like something meaningful is happening.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: It can be all churny and intense, and your body might equate that with, oh, this is something.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the time what you're feeling, it's not connection, fortunately.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be that guy, but I'm going to be.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's activation.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's your nervous system recognizing a pattern and not in a good way.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when someone is actually steady, let's talk about that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you meet someone else and they're different, but they're consistent.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: They don't disappear and reappear.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: They don't say these big things like, You're my soulmate, and you're not like other girls, please, those are massive red flags, please run if anyone says that to you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: They don't push, they don't pull, they just show up.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: They text when they say they will.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: They help make plans or and keep them.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're respectful of your time, they're not trying to rush you into anything, and instead of feeling excited about that and really happy, you might feel unsure, a bit suspicious, maybe, a bit flat.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I hear from people all the time, even slightly irritated, if you're honest.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I hear it a lot with words like it is boring.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: You might find yourself thinking, I don't know if I'm feeling this, but something's missing for me.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the boring word keeps rolling around in your head, and I think that is where other people get tripped up.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot go a week without seeing this in my work.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because assuming that the absence of intensity means the absence of connection is a problem, but it also can mean the absence of chaos, but when you're missing that feeling of intensity, it's actually kind of a good sign.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: There is another side to this as well.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you meet someone and there's small things that just don't sit right, but n nothing you could really put like a bullet point list together for, just weird little moments, a comment that lands oddly, or a joke that has an edge to it, a comment maybe like a slight disregard for something you said, or that feeling in your body when it just tightens briefly.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: And because you don't have a big obvious reason to walk away, you start negotiating with yourself.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Am I being too sensitive?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I am overthinking.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to write someone off too quickly.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, why are we programmed like that?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to write someone off too quickly rather than listening to your gut, those red flags that you know something's off and just cutting your losses.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what's happening there is the old conditioning is coming back online.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: That part of you that was trained to override your own perception, the part that learned to explain things away, make excuses for people.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you end up in this strange place where the things that used to hurt you can feel compelling, and the things that are actually safe can feel really underwhelming.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And getting to trust yourself when something feels genuinely off is kind of an art at this stage.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: But slowing it down enough to see is actually the key.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the most useful things you can do when you do start dating again is not actually about spotting red flags faster, really, it's also about slowing everything down and actually changing the perception of why you're dating in the first place.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: No rushing to decide, is this good, is it bad, is this my person, but giving yourself time to just notice patterns.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Going into dating as more like a social experiment, something that stretches you, develops your discernment, and has the benefit of meeting hopefully some nice people on the way is a far healthier way to go into this.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And also to get very granular on what you notice about people that you may have not noticed before.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: How does this person respond when you say no to something small?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do they respect it?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do they push?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do they joke about it?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do they minimize it?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: How are they responding?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not just talking about words here because that is easy to craft.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And as we know, we've all met those people who promise a really good game, only to do the complete opposite over time for full control.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So not just words, but how they are responding, marrying with that feeling you have in your gut about the sincerity behind the words.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: How do they respond to things, questions or topics on human rights, for example?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Violations of those, violence against women.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you can bring up those topics with someone and you can't you don't immediately see them bristle or get defensive, that is a really good indicator.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So push.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: What do you care?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: You may never see them again.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's the harm?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Have to ask these things.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens when something doesn't go their way?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do they regulate themselves or do you feel that shift in a room?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know the one.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: That shift in the room where you're feeling like you're on eggshells again and you shouldn't press any further as they might ignite and either leave or say something or do something mean.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: That is not a good sign.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you feel after you spent time with them?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not during necessarily, because that can all be high octane and again very much staged.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you feel after?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel settled or are you slightly on edge?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: That after feeling is often where the truth lies.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people say trust your gut, and whilst I do agree with that, there is a bit of nuance we need here because your body often knows it just needs a recalibration of what it knows and what it's been doing.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because if your nervous system's been living in chaos for a really long time, your gut can be wired to respond to chaos as normality.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just about trusting that first feeling, it's about really getting curious about it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: A good thing to ask yourself, which I recommend all the time, is to say, is this feeling coming from familiarity?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it coming from something actually aligned and safe?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that is obviously a process that you kind of have to repeat and repeat and repeat, but it's not a switch, it is just a process.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: You start doing something minimal differently, and you keep building on that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And something that can help is allowing attraction to build over time instead of expecting it to hit immediately, like this thunderbolt.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I do blame media and movies from the beginning of time for this nonsense about love, about the bolt out of the blue.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And as I've talked about before, and I won't go on another rant, but a lot of these love stories, really, when you break them down in these very famous movies, are not much more than stalking and boundary crossing until the woman gives in.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't really want to make that the model which we look to for relationships, but not expecting that thunderbolt to hit immediately is a really good expectation to set because the kind of connection that's steady and the people in it are respectful and safe, it doesn't always come with the fireworks at the beginning.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: It can feel much quieter, more grounded, less urgent.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for someone who is used to urgency and this up and down push and pull, that can feel like something is very missing.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: But often, what's missing is the anxiety, that's all.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: You do not have to get it perfect, remember.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing I see a lot is women putting real pressure on themselves to get it right this time, as everyone's so invested.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: If I had a penny for every time someone said to a survivor or someone who's divorced, oh get back out there, you've got to date again, why are you still single?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would be a lot more wealthy than I am right now.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that does create this feeling in a lot of survivors to get it right.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the next time you date, it's gotta be this perfect relationship, or you've got to have good news for the people around you.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And as this dynamic normally comes with people with chronic people-pleasing issues, this can put a lot of anxiety on you, a lot of stress, like you have no room for error.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: When in fact, if you're dipping your toe into dating, you're gonna have to kiss a lot of frogs in order to find those people that you actually do enjoy and that have all of the healthy things that you're looking for.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a numbers game, and the numbers are enormous.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to set you up for that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to go on a lot of dates, you're gonna have to have a lot of conversations, and you're gonna have to just try a lot of different things and practice your discernment.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So set it up for the people around you.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is not gonna be some fairy tale nonsense.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You are going to need, like in everything that's actually real and strategic, you're gonna need numbers.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to have perfect discernment.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to take your time.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is all part of getting back self-agency and your kind of fuck you, I'm doing what I want thing, which you need.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to take time, you're allowed to learn as you go, you're allowed to notice something a bit later than you would have liked.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to not see things when you're in it and reflect and change your damn mind.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: The only kind of consent you should ever be operating on with yourself and with others is enthusiastic consent.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: You don't owe anyone months and months to see if they get better.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: You don't.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But the difference is you're now paying attention, you're not asleep to it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You by no means have to be perfect, and you do just have to give yourself some grace and trust yourself.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And if dating feels very confusing after what you've been through, that doesn't mean you've gone backwards.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is a natural part of recalibration.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Your poor system is learning the difference between what's familiar, what's actually safe, and that takes time.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: As always, I do want you to understand that this is all a lot.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe instead of asking yourself, why am I not feeling it?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: or why am I drawn to this, you can just replace that, start asking, what is this reminding me of?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Checking in with yourself, going inward, talking to parts of you that really understand all the information you need is inside.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: That answer to that question, I guarantee, will tell you a lot more than the initial spark when you meet someone ever will.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I will close out and not yap any longer, but I'm sending you all so much love, and I hope that as always, you'll ask me questions, anything you want to know about any of these topics, and I will answer them in future episodes.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good luck out there.