Latest / Beyond the Needle: The Aesthetics Business Podcast / The Truth About Building & Renovating an Aesthetics Clinic with Eleanore Quadri

Transcript

The Truth About Building & Renovating an Aesthetics Clinic with Eleanore Quadri · Beyond the Needle: The Aesthetics Business Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Beyond the Needle, the Aesthetics Business Podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, I'm here to share real, actionable strategies and bring on expert guests to help you level up, attract more patients, and build a standout brand.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let's turn your passion into a thriving business again.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Real quick before we get started.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know this from experience both as a business owner and as a former clinic manager.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: The operations side never gets easier as a clinic grows.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Staff schedules, payments, marketing, all of it pulling attention away from the treatment room.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is unless you have GlossGenius, the intelligent system that does all of that work for you, so you can focus on the work you love and watch your revenue grow.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: GlossGenius is sponsoring this episode and is giving you an exclusive code.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Enter code Needle at glossgenus.com for 50% of your first two months of their MedSpa and aesthetic plans.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Available to US businesses only.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get into the episode.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of Beyond the Needle.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am joined by Eleanor Quadry, founder and clinical director of Revive Cosmetics, a CQC registered nurse-led medical aesthetics clinic and award-winning clinic in Cairns that has been running since 2012.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in this episode, we are talking about something I get asked about a lot and that very few people have actually done and are willing to talk about honestly, and that is building your own clinic space from the ground up.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because Elena has done this twice now.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Her first clinic was built using recycled shipping containers, which is already pretty unconventional.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And her most recent build is a completely bespoke steel structure, purpose built on her own land, designed exactly the way she wanted it, without the compromises that come from renting someone else's space or trying to make a converted room work for a clinical environment.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And this episode is essentially the blueprint that all practitioners need when they are thinking about taking that step.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because the reality of a build like this, the planning permission, the CQC requirements, the cost that nobody tells you about, the things that go wrong, the decisions that seem small at the time and turn out to matter enormously, that is exactly what we are diving into here today.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you are thinking about building from scratch, converting a space, buying a property, or you're just curious about what it actually takes, there is a lot in this conversation that will save you time, money, and significant amounts of stress.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: As always, please don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and your listening platform of choice to be notified when new episodes go live.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to leave me a little review as well.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really do appreciate every single one of them.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get into it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Eleanor, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great to have you here.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: For anyone who hasn't heard of you before, tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, and how you got into the aesthetics industry.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks, Emily, and thanks for asking me as well.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm Eleanor, I run Revive Cosmetics down just past Ashford in Kent.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a nurse prescriber, a clinic owner.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've been going for about 15 years now, quietly in the back, just fodding along.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, one of the reasons why we kind of discuss things was because I've done things a little bit unconventionally, maybe compared to some other clinic owners.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I'm hoping that my story might help others to just show them where I've come from because obviously I was a pure NHS nurse in oncology for nearly 20 years and then moved into the aesthetics world and then finally left after COVID and now I've just completely uh run my business.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you've never gone down the pathway, I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, of training in aesthetics and then working in someone else's clinic.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've always had your own clinics, is that right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I've always built it up and then now I do work for some pharmaceutical companies, but I've always been predominantly just the nurse in the clinic.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, you've done things in slightly unconventional ways, you know, in comparison to other practitioners.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me about your journey into aesthetics and you know, from your first clinic to where you are today, like how what what what happened?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: What did you, what did you do?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when I first started thinking about going into aesthetics when I was pregnant with my firstborn, it was actually my husband that was like, Well, look, we could convert the garage, you could have your own little kind of studio.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where most people start out.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, no, that sounds good.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was professional.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we completely did like a change of use, and I worked from there for a couple of good few years.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's when things started to pick up, and then we soon realized that actually it was just too small.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually took a big hit and sold the house and then moved to a different house that had a little bit of land and it actually had an outbuilding.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to work from there from the time being, which wasn't the greatest, but it still worked.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I didn't have to then go and rent anywhere.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: But my husband decided that he would get a shipping container, and of course, when he said that, I was like, what an earth?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no way.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: But when he started showing me what they can look like, that's when I kind of thought, oh, okay.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he got the biggest shipping container that he could get.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what was good about that was is it's not put into the ground.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: You actually, it's like on a slab of concrete, so you don't need to have like footings.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then we spent quite a few months sorting it out, like getting windows, cutting the shipping container into pieces, really, it felt like.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: But once it finished, it was a beautifully clad building, and no one ever knew it was a shipping container.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was what was so lovely about it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a treatment room, a waiting room, and my husband had an office, which then I used to use as well at some times, and it was lovely.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: We had parking and it worked really well.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Never in a million years had I think that Revive would grow how it grew, to the point that we then had to have conversations about eight years later saying, I think we're gonna have to move and do this again.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: At one point we were like, could we do it where we lived?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just too small.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we took kind of the big step to then sell that place, which took nearly two years, and then found the place that we're in now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was a big gamble financially, uh, a big gamble for my family as well, because obviously we were uprooting quite a bit, but having to find somewhere that was still within the vicinity of where I was working because I didn't want to lose patients or anything.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: So then we continued with where we are now and have built a bespoke clinic, but this time again, not so conventional.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we haven't done the whole footings, we've used the ground screws and we've done a steel building to try and kind of keep it in context of where we live because we are in the countryside, which is beautiful.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to keep everything very natural and we wanted to help the environment, so we didn't really want to pour a whole load of concrete into the ground, which is why we chose the ground screws and we did the steel building so we didn't do brick bricks and mortar.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: But again, no, because it is like you would look at like a house type thing.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been quite a journey to get to where you are today, and a lot of stress, you know, buying and selling and buying and selling is.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, moving house in general is is stressful, but when you've got like a business attached to it that you then need to kind of carry over and carry on and not, you know, not have it mess up your your diaries with your patients is probably another level of stress.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point you did have an interim period where you were working from somewhere else.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about that and how you kind of manage to, before we go into the details of the clinic and the build and all of that kind of thing, how you managed to make it kind of work as seamlessly as possible while you were moving from place to place so that it didn't interrupt your patients too much.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think just pure organization, and I'm a bit of an organizational freak, and I think anyone that's in aesthetics and minds are in businesses knows if you're not organised, then that's just when it all falls apart.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose I'm quite anal with everything, probably got a bit of OCD.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what we decided to do was is I found a kind of more of a room to rent from a very good friend of mine who now actually works with me as well, and it just worked really, really well because she was actually within Ham Street, which is where we've moved to.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it just seemed silly if I hadn't have gone for that, because actually telling your patients you're moving, but then having to move again, when we had those conversations, was like, well, I'm only moving two minutes up the road.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So once you know why I'm here, it's going to be easy to find the new place.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as we exchanged, I moved Revive and gave ourselves four weeks so we could then pack everything up.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody was interrupted.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: So literally, I finished clinic at three o'clock on that Friday, moved everything into the new clinic and everything Friday night, ready to continue working on the Saturday morning so there was no disruptions.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can't pre-plan because you never know when you're going to exchange and complete.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always that I'd finish work early on a Friday, get everything done ready, so then it wouldn't interfere with anyone's.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't have to cancel anybody's appointments, which was kind of my main aim.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a very big task and a very big arse, but we did it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I can imagine.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you moved into your friend's place in the interim before you, you know, built and finished the your your clinic the way you're working from now.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in the meantime, while you were working from your friend's space, two minutes up the road from your home, you were building this clinic in the background.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did you bring in kind of professionals, architects, builders, planning consultants?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: How much help did you have with bringing that all together?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think we underestimated it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I originally told all my patients six months, six months it'll be built, it'll be absolutely fine.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to get planning, everything will be fine.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Six months later, we still didn't have the planning, and I was still with oh my goodness.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then everyone was like, Oh, so because obviously you can't put planning in until you actually live in that property.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because at that point, we knew that we would have to get an architect.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we did bring people on board.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: We we had a really good architect that had been recommended to us, so we were using him.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And literally on the day of the move, and we decided to move ourselves, and I would highly recommend not doing that when you've got three kids and a business.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: We actually had the architect booked in at two o'clock once we'd got the key.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So my husband vanished for two hours, showing him that like where we wanted to put the clinic and then being guided by him where he thought we would be best placed and what he thought we'd be about to get while I was unloading trucks with family and friends trying to get unpacked.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So because he was like, Well, I need somebody there.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So literally on the day that we moved, we had an architect booked ready to come over.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think it then spiraled from there.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you know, it's not just an architect.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: We then needed, you know, you sort of needed builder control, but because we had never done any of this, we were having to rely on other people to kind of help us around the processes, you know, because you have to submit this and you have to wait for this and you have to do changes.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think I underestimated actually how much work and how much time these things would take.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the good thing was having the place that I was in made it easy because then I wasn't thinking I've got to be out at such and such time.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: I just continued working and just let it kind of just roll, really.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: At least you had somewhere to be in the interim, so you weren't like relying on yeah, it needs to be done by this time because you need like that's that's your only option.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: What if someone is thinking about going down the route of building a clinic at home or on a piece of land, whatever, what are those initial things?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, you were relying on a lot of people to tell you what the processes were.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are the kind of key things that people need to get in place?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: My thing personally is you have to need your architect, and I think that's probably one of the best pieces of advice that we were given because architects are great, but they don't really fully understand your budget, and with building materials, it is so expensive.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we had to rein him in a little bit because we were like saying, Well, actually, that's just not going to be within our budget.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think actually one thing that we didn't do from the beginning was actually have a planning consultant on board.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we had that, I think maybe the process might have been a little bit quicker because they fully understand the context of your council and what they want to do for planning.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're looking at like commercial use or changing anything, they have such a better understanding because this is what they do every day and all day.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I when I spoke to my husband, which was quite when you look back and you evaluate what you've done, that was one thing both of us said because I think they are kind of weight worth their gold from their advice.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you could have done to make the planning process quicker?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or we was it literally completely out of your hands?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you any advice that you would give people who are you know in a similar situation or might be in a similar situation and they need to get planning permission?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you were hoping that it would all be done within six months, but you still hadn't received the planning permission in that time.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think you underestimate how many changes there might be between you and your architect.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to know what you want and you've got to be strong enough to say, I need it by this date.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: He was brilliant.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: We actually had to change quite a few things.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think because where I am, we have a lot of TPO trees, that means our tree preservation orders.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So where we thought we'd have to put the clinic, which is what we were guided on, actually the council came back and said, you can't have it there because actually you are within the remit of the TPO roots of the tree.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we then had to move the clinic actually where I originally wanted to have it, but we didn't think we'd be able to get it there.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that was because then when you go through like building regs and stuff, they're the ones that then you have to go to structural engineers.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the structural engineer is the one that turns around and says, Well, actually, you can't put your footings there or you can't do this.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's liaising with so many different people.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you just have to make sure that you've got them all lined up, talking together, and just give yourself a bit more time because actually, by the time that you get all of that, then you can put it into planning.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the planning side of it, once you've paid the application, that goes in and it's like a I don't, I can't remember off the top of my head, but maybe like a 14-week type of window, then you can't get that down.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got all your ducks in a row at the beginning to make sure that everything, you know, so you're not looking for a structural engineer, you're not looking for building control, you're not looking, you've got everyone together, then I'd say it makes the process a lot quicker.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: A lot quicker, okay.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you are CQC registered, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you obviously went into this knowing that you were going to apply for CQC registration.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: When in the build process do you start thinking about CQC requirements and how much did it influence the design and the layout of the clinic?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: From day one.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think because I was already CQC registered, I kind of already knew about the implications of what we needed and what we didn't need.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: There isn't much information out there because when you actually call them and say, Oh, can I just ask?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be compliant and I want everything to be really good.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of come back and say, But it's up to you.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or go and read this and it's a bit woolly.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually had to do, and I actually reached out to quite a few other kind of healthcare professionals that I work with that are also CQC, and just sort of said to them, Can I just ask?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it says this, this and this, what do you think?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: What have you done?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously I knew they were CQC registered as well.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: It comes down to things like the taps, you know, they've got to be elbows, but we went completely touchless, so we've gone censored.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems like even the worktops can't be porous.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So when we went to go and look at the worktops and they were showing, I was like, Oh, I can't have stone because obviously if you spill something in there, it's gonna stay.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it needed to be a wipable, you know.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you think your clinic's gonna look amazing, which I feel it does, but you have to sometimes compromise maybe slightly on what you want because it's got to be CQC.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously, when you're working with your architect, there were certain things that actually, you know, the bathroom needs to be enough room to get a wheelchair in, the door frames had to be bigger because again, I was like, if I needed a wheelchair access, you know, we couldn't have steps, we wanted a ramp, you know, there's you know, those sort of things that you do have to take into consideration.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I've been to your clinic and it is beautiful, and you would never even notice those little things that you probably felt like were a huge deal that you had to compromise on.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: That means a lot, and I think when you're in the thick of it, and I think that's something, you know, people come in and like, no, this is amazing.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, and like really genuinely like really happy.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I've just been like, Yeah, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think it's only probably in the last maybe four months, and I've been in here nearly a year that I've actually sort of had to say, step back and actually appreciate what we've done.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's so easy because it was such a stressful process that I think you forget.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you forget how far it's come, yeah, and what it was like when you first started.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it is, it's beautiful.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are the specific kind of CQC requirements that affect the physical space of the clinic?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, things like room size and ventilation, clinical waste, accessibility that someone needs to factor in before they kind of finalise the finer details of their of the build.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've got to use your common sense, you know, and that's where you need to liaise with your architect because for me, I was a bit like, well, I need this, this, and this in my clinic room.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need storage, I need to be able to put my machines, it needs to be big enough for a wheelchair, it needs to be big enough for me to be able to move around, we needed aircon, we needed heating, you know, it was all of those things, you know.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: We needed windows, we that, you know, and they're the ones that then can look at it and say, right.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So actually he had never done a CQC clinic, but he had done, I think it was a dentist.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So he was kind of a little bit more like, oh, okay, right, I have done something similar, but not like, but I was like saying to him, Well, you have to, I'm treating it like a medical clinic, so that's what we need to work with.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then he sort of came around and said, Well, look, actually, you need to have your rooms these sizes.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to compromise slightly selling the waiting room and my husband's office and things like that, but it was workable.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if you get all of that information together beforehand, then you're already one step ahead.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: And things like even the sink, I should just look to, you know, when you're doing the sink, you know, you're not allowed an overflow and it has to be underneath the worktop, it can't be on the top, you know.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was expecting to have these beautiful bowl sinks sitting on the top.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can't have any of that, but you can still make it look nice, and I think that's something that you just factor in.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, the architect was like, well, you can have whatever you want.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just make sure you've got a, you know, this is where the water's going to be and this is where you need to do it, you know.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but those are the things you need to be thinking about before you then go down the route because otherwise you can end up wasting money, right?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any other regulatory or compliance considerations beyond CQC that affects the build, you know, things people might not think about until it's too late to change them?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we had building control on site straight away.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we made sure that it was completely building regs can, you know, compliant.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually had them on site saying, look, what do we need to do to make sure?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because obviously CQC aren't going to know whether the windows are compliant, you know, that's where building regs will come in.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we were asking those questions, you know, what does it need to do?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: There were things like FDA, you know, fire doors, where the CQC just expect you to know that you need fire doors for every single door.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But we decided to take things a little bit further.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you talk about, you know, you can have building regs, you can have CQC that turn around and say you need to have X, Y, and Z, but you need to look at a clinic as a whole.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing is once you've done it once, you learn from your mistakes.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You do it again, you learn from your mistakes.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing that for us that we decided to really do was the soundproofing and the warmth, because actually you have to be, you know, fire regulated, all of that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously that's CQC, but that's building rigs as well.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they do really tie in together.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But there were things like how much insulation you needed, but we decided because insulation you need, we decided to make everything completely soundproof.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: My husband went completely way overboard, but I can now just thank him every day because he went from sealant being acoustic sealant to double boarding our boards and making sure they were soundproof.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you literally cannot hear a conversation, even if you're standing outside the room.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And from patient confidentiality-wise, when I was in the old clinic, my husband said you can hear sometimes.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're laughing, you could hear.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were, you really had to sometimes you could have the radio on, but you could hear that somebody's in there.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't want people to feel like you can hear the conversation.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like, when we move, we are doing it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Even from the flooring, the floor was double bordered with soundproofing.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't even hear people walking around, it doesn't disturb.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody's having a lovely facial with my skin therapist, they don't know what I'm doing in the next room.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas before you could really hear that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say from that point of view, spec it well because it makes such an amazing difference when when your patients are in with you and knowing that you can't then hear your therapist next door talking either, even when you're quiet.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think patients get really put off when they're sat in the waiting room.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing worse than you're sat in the waiting room and you can hear what's going on in the consultation room.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I had it in the first ever clinic I worked in, had no soundproofing, and patients used to comment on it and say that they were worried that they would be able to like people be able to hear what they're talking about.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like you say, when you're having a facial, the last thing you want to hear is like the hoovering going on and like the crashing around at reception and you know that kind of thing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Did that make a big difference in terms of cost, or was it a lot more expensive to do it like that?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it and I think that's a thing, you know.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you start looking at stuff like that, people just put on an extra amount of money and you just think it's a board.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's going to be certain things towards it because we double boarded, we were obviously using double the amount.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But from a warmth point of view, like in the winter, it was very toasty, and actually at points we were not even putting the heating on.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: In the summer, it's been quite well regulated, but at least we've got air con.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: In the rooms, it's quite nice, but in the in the waiting room, you do really need to have the air con.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what it means is that I can't hear the conversations in in the waiting room.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Patients can't hear.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: each other and like you say, I mean I used to work in a clinic and you could sometimes hear the conversations if I was being a bit loud, which I can be sometimes.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also patients can be a bit, you know, and they they, you know, you can be over traumatic and you're like laughing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then it does put the person off next door because then they'll be like, well, if I can hear her, can you hear me telling you something else?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So can they hear me?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And especially when you live in like a I mean Ham Street's like a small kind of village, isn't it?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you might be worried that the person next door you know and they can hear you.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh no.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now walk me through the timeline from the decision to build to the day you opened the doors, what were the main phases and how long did each one take versus how long you thought it would take?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously we know that planning commission took a lot longer.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah definitely okay so I thought that within a year it would be built and I'd be in we started building literally 11 months after moving in.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh okay yeah so then we had so many hiccups along the road we had builders steal our minute money and not do the work we had people not turn up when they were supposed to our screw company which we had everything lined up we literally had 64 ground screws so they're big three meter screws that are put in the ground and like dug in you know with these massive machines.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: We had all of those delivered and then building control said I'm not happy with those screws.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think this company says what it should they'd gone to their technical department and I was like we're due to start on Tuesday no you're not going to start so even before we'd even started we then had to get another company in who fortunately I just think it's God's way he had a blip in his diary that he could then come and do them.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: But we'd obviously spent the money on the ground screws that were sitting outside and then had to argue with the company to get our money back and have those transported back.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the start of it.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then it continued our windows and doors got messed up and then the gentleman we thought we were doing the right thing and we decided that we would tell him that obviously Joe decided that she was going to move up with me who I was renting from come and work with me.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So she had been in her place for 10 years and told him because he'd been a really good landlord that we she was going to move in with me and he decided to give us a month's notice.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we had no windows and doors and we were forced to open on the 3rd of November so we moved we shut the old clinic on the 28th of October I think and we had four days.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we literally got the ground screws in on the August say September October so within three months that building was up and erected but we had to open with no front doors we had to get a carpenter in to give us a fake front door and we literally just had to put on a brave face and go, this is us.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we are still in the element of I mean all the inside was done but we had you know a lot of stress along the way but the main thing was is we were managed to get in and again not delay any patients.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: We literally just had that kind of like those four days off to be able to move everything and we were literally painting at 12 o'clock at night still before you know we were opening the doors and then about two weeks after we had moved in then the doors and windows turned up so then we did I had to say to patients look we're going to start in this room and then I had to move them into this room and it was just logistics but everyone was so lovely.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like Eleanor we don't care we just want we want our treatment we love you like don't worry about it.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: I stressed a lot because I just felt like I wanted to open this amazing clinic and do this big grand opening everything to be landscaped the car park to be done the winter came we couldn't even do the car parks and the mud came so it became a bit of an ever-evolving project rather than it being a completely finished thing but we were able to move in within three months which was a big big ask which I don't think would have happened if I'd be honest with you I think it probably would have been around January if we'd have just given ourselves a bit more time but our hands were tied and we had to move so we just had to make good and do what we could do.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because the landlord essentially kicked you out of the place that you'd gone to in the interim yeah okay what a nightmare and I can imagine like you said earlier you're you're a bit OCD so you probably had this vision in your head of opening this beautiful grand clinic and you're you know unveiling it to your patients and then suddenly you were forced in there with no windows and doors and you just had to kind of do it as it is.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes just the way life is sometimes and you just have to kind of evolve with it and I do think with things like clinics it is like always never evolving thing like there's always something to do there's something yeah there's always going to be something that you want to change or work on or do so that yeah the car park will come at some point.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think when we moved in the patients actually turned up and they thought we'd actually wrapped the building as a big grand reveal so what we had to do is we had to wrap the building in a waterproof membrane which happened to be green I don't know why it was green and we had to seal all the windows and patients came in they didn't even know there wasn't a window there.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: They literally were oh my goodness when are you doing your grand reveal and I was like what do you mean they were like when you've wrapped the building you know like when you get a new car and they put the bar on the top and I went yeah yeah I was like and then in the end I was like no there's no windows there's no windows we haven't got any windows and everyone was like what do you mean you've got no windows but because it was so warm and we had obviously the heating no one really knew so we actually got away with it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then like when we had the windows fitted and then patients that were coming back like two weeks later were like how funny.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are they windows?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like did you did you run them for Ayon and I was like no we had no windows and they they honestly couldn't believe it but I think you make too and I I think patients just didn't see the little things that I saw but I saw them and so did my husband and I think that's what causes stress because we just wanted everything to be kind of perfect and it just wasn't but then life isn't perfect and you just have to you like you say you have to roll with it otherwise it becomes too stressful.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but it is hard especially when you've spent a lot of money on things and a lot of time like obviously you want it to be the way you want it to be now talk to me about builders because I feel like every time I speak to a a clinic owner who has built a clinic there have been issues with builders or like del huge delays because of things that have gone wrong with builders like I don't know if there's an answer but you know how can people avoid those kinds of things like you said about builders like taking your money and not turning up for work did you get that money back how do you prevent something like that happening so it it's crazy actually because it was only because you asked me to do this that we really looked back on what this did and I don't think people realize that the true extent of what actually happened because I think you just try and block it out.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know we had a a builder that turned up and he wanted I mean his quote was quite reasonable£2500 to build the building that I've got and he was going to project manage the whole thing and my husband went no thanks so he took it upon himself and was my project manager and if it wasn't for him our build would be twice the cost he one thing a bit of advice I say to anybody is go and get your own building materials.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Every builder puts 10 to 20% on top of just to source the materials you give me the list I can call them we have them delivered and that saved us money but it was a lot of work what the problem that we had was like I said earlier we had builders that you have to pay a deposit didn't even turn up we were then having to fight with them to get our money back because they just didn't turn up I think there was lots of jobs that me and my husband ended up doing from doing the installation to the floor with the kids at the weekend because the installation guys just didn't turn up and said we got every excuse under the sun my van's been broken into my tools have been stolen it's raining and I actually said to him about three weeks later I rang him up I lost it and I went I run my own business so do not tell me that you cannot give me my money back and I just stern words and then suddenly I got my refund because I said to him I'm going to take this further you know and there was me cutting insulation I haven't got a clue I'm not a builder you know give me a needle any day you know and there was me with my hands and knees with my husband and my three kids making them fit insulation into each tiny pocket of this steel building you know and it's like but we had to do it.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: We had some amazing builders and I've got amazing people now that we actually call upon for lots of different things.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned now if you can it's the same with everything, you know, sometimes you do have to wait.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's about not giving money over straight away and being quite stern of like what you want.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately the building trade can be renowned for people coming you know they'll do one day and then suddenly you don't see them for two days and you're like where have they gone?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh sorry it's because they've got another job on or they would start a job and then by one o'clock they'd be gone and you'd be like why's the roof a guy gone then you know and it's like oh because they then go and do a job in the afternoon whereas I'm thinking they'll come and do the roof do it for a week be gone you know but that's not how it works.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's trying to project manage all of that your workforce and of course I was out working and left my husband at home doing all of that and he really was the one who took the brunt but I think you know we we use reputable people we looked at their reviews and that doesn't always work but I think word of mouth the people that we had were all from word of mouth they're the ones that didn't let us down.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I was just about to say to you like are there any places that you think are good sources to find great good people where it's word of mouth it's always the way isn't it word of mouth we tried all the websites at rate a builder da da da da honice and those are the ones that actually we got blasted with we actually had one guy that took 10,000 pounds of our money and the worst thing was is he had been working for us already.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: So he had gained that trust kind of very well manipulated us into look I'll get these materials for you just transfer it I'll do this and know how much stress and then suddenly the day that the materials they just didn't arrive and then he completely ghosted us.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what and we trust people and I'm such I I found it really hard and I took it really personally because I you know I was phoning him saying look you've done all of this and I've paid you as soon as your invoice came in I you know why would you do that to me?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: I you can see that I'm I'm in a dilemma you can see what's going on because at this point we knew that we had to move out and I was literally I mean the amount of times I cried and was so frustrated and I'm very lucky and I think it's God's way that we got the money back through the bank in the end because they could see what happened.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: We had all the evidence but you know that was a lot of money yeah and it was just awful absolutely awful I don't know how people can I mean how do you how can people live with themselves?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah how could they live with themselves and and how do people get away with this like that can't be the the first time he's done that I mean that's just crazy.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So your biggest piece of advice is for builders word of mouth and don't just hand over money straight away and project manage buyer own materials because that's when that's why a lot of builders want money up front is because they'll say well I need to go and buy XYZ for you but yeah you can do that yourself.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it's hard work.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And all you need is a list from them they'll turn in and say to you I need 7000 bricks okay well and then phone different building merchants.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: My husband literally ended up getting such a great rapport and he would literally phone them and say this is what I need give me a quote they would get the quote he would look get three quotes and then he would go with the other one and then what happened was is because he was then ordering then they started looking after him but it's the hidden things it's like screws tape all the little things that you don't realise that actually add up as well so if you put 10 or 20% on everything it becomes a lot of money and we just you we just said to we just said to all the builders in the end no no no no you tell us what you need we all have it here you tell us what day you're starting it will be delivered for that and we took complete control yeah that I think that's the best way to be because then people can't do sneaky things behind your back and you know I mean I've said to my husband when when uh I was talking about doing this episode I don't understand how clinic owners do this because we've had an issue in our bathroom since last December and it's still going on with the builder getting it fixed now nearly a year later because of constant being messed around by the builder things going wrong I've had every excuse under the sun as well you know vans broken downs be broken into whole house he told me his house caught a light you know while he was on holiday things with much you know what if the lies the lies the lies that really bug me don't lie to me just be honest and I think when you throw it back in their face that I am actually a business owner myself so don't take the piss out of me like come on well if it's any coincidence we had a brand new roof fitted and we've had four leaks in our roof since and you just think how can it how can that happen you know and it's and he hasn't wanted to come back.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you just feel like you're constantly fighting and it shouldn't be like this and this industry is is awful because if it wasn't for my husband I can tell you now we would be way over budget we wouldn't be in now and I don't think I'd be where I am so having somebody that had just a little bit of common sense he is not a builder he was a teacher he runs his own computer software development company so he's not a builder because people go oh is your husband a builder I'm like no but just because he had a bit of common sense and was able to yeah run your words I know so yeah so it is really hard.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but I'd say a lot of patients came to my rescue but I think another thing is talk to your patients because when you find that it's actually their husbands or they won't want to let you down and they are the ones that have actually been amazing for us.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a couple that have literally just saved the day and they were amazing and they said look I can't do it I'll come on such and such.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like it's absolutely fine and they turned up and they were the ones that didn't let me down.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when I then put it out to patients and said and started talking because I think sometimes we keep everything so close because I I didn't want to look like a failure.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want people to see what was going on I just kept putting on this brave face but when I started to get let down I started having these conversations and then a patient be like well my brother in law does that or my husband does that well let me ask him let me get and I'm like give me his number give me his number that is such a good piece of advice because people know like people will know people uh if you talk to enough people and that and and then you're going to get people who are reputable because your patient's brother's not going to come and screw you over because how awkward would that be for your patient exactly and now it they reap the rewards because the amount of patients are coming in go oh well and I've been so messed around to and I'm like right I know amazing plaster a flora uh a kitchen fitter a plumber and they're like give me their digital they've reap the rewards I have I've got a black book of good ones and bad ones yeah yeah I love that with things like the roof leaking you've that's a new roof so you've paid someone to do that have you got no protection warranty or anything on things like that does the building works not come with some sort of warranty no and we so he came so the new roof was done and it literally leaked after the plaster had been done and no word of a lie at midnight one night my husband and I were in here we obviously had no electric because we're waiting for the plaster to dry and the ceiling in my clinic at the back there was tipping it down and ruined all the plaster and he said to me I can get there in three or four days I was like really you're ruining the new plaster and I did say to him you will be liable but then you say that then they don't want to come then it leaked again then it leaked to my husband's he decided to do things I think the other thing is is you've got to be really strict if the architect says to do it this way you tell them no you're not doing it your way this is the way that they've said or talk to them because actually he wanted to do something completely different and now that's what's leaking and the architect saying well that's why I told you to use to do those hopper things yeah so now we're still waiting for him to come back for the fifth time to try and fix something because I'm saying to him the winter's going to set in now and we need that fix because we're bound to get a leak on that corner again which yeah it's not good.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: So your advice there would be listen to the architect and build their advice and building control and if the builder says let's do this instead stick with your guns this is what we've been advised this is what we're gonna do.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah okay what were the most there might be a few expensive decisions you made and with hindsight which of those were worth it and which would you do differently if you could do it again?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: See it was funny I actually sat down to try and think about this question.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's anything that we would do differently with regards to anything that we've put in the clinic because everything that we've done we really did shop around so I wasn't like I went oh my goodness I'm just gonna go and buy I don't know a countertop for 10 grand for example I shopped around I looked every single decision we made was actually very methodical so I think actually there isn't anything that we kind of overspent on or that we thought we would wouldn't do that again.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think but again we'd already done it once so we'd kind of learnt from there.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So beforehand we never had air con.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So this time we decided we have to have aircon.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: We knew it was going to be costly we decided that we'd get an air source heat pump because it would be more costly at the beginning but it's then going to help because we're going to put solar panels on the roof so we're trying to make it very economical and good for the environment.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we knew then that we had to do these things.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit of an upfront cost but we know that we'll root the rewards in the future.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah absolutely and there are decisions in a clinic build that might seem minor at the time but turn out to matter enormously once you're actually in that space actually treating patients what are some of yours definitely the soundproofing a hundred percent if we if hubby hadn't have really gone to town with you know at one point the plastic was like why are we double boarding he's like you have to double board my wife is in here you can hear conversations I'm not having it even to the ceiling like I said to the doors the door sills we've ended up he went this far that he ended up there's like drop bars you know when you go to like a hotel and you shut them and then they like suck in and then they shut down he even went to that extreme.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like everything keeps warm it keeps you know and all of that.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's little things that he had really thought about that work really well room sizes you know at first I was a bit like no no we don't need such a big room but now that I'm here patients love the airy space and it's nice not to feel on top of them especially if you're using machines you need that space and if you've got somebody you know just by the time that you've got a chair your chair your workspace and the thing it can become very crowded and feel quite cramped.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that we didn't want it to feel like either.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's true because devices take up a lot of space don't they?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I think you forget that because you take into account your bed size you take into account where you're going to put like your sink and all of that your fridge you know and then you have all that and then suddenly you're like well I can walk around the bed you bring a machine into that and then suddenly you can't move it and then you just feel like you're tripping it out over all the time.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say go bigger because you'll need the space go bigger than you think.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah okay for someone building or converting a space from scratch what are some of the non-negotiables be in terms of the physical environment all the and the things that directly affect clinical and patient experience?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think space is a big thing.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know space, soundproofing, making sure that you do it well don't scrimp because you will see that you know sometimes you do just have to go a little bit more to make sure that it looks really good.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Ventilation is key you know I was in a when I was renting it was so hot in there patients used to feel really uncomfortable then we had to get like a a portable AC unit that was in the way it was really noisy.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: It just wasn't worth it.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why we were like look we're gonna do it do it from the beginning because then there's less upheaval than trying to then put something in once it's in there.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think temperature's one that people probably underestimate quite a lot but when you think about it a lot of these treatments that you're having like injectables for example the last thing you want is to be lying in a room where you feel really hot and you're you're having a face injected that can probably make it a lot more uncomfortable or things like microneedling can probably be a lot more uncomfortable if you're hot.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think that's probably something that people should 100% be considering from the start and we know our summers are only going to get hotter now so air con's a good investment to make.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Completely and I think that's the thing you know new houses are built to be so thermally efficient that it becomes too hot.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: So in the winter it's lovely.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: In the summer it's unbearable.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So my thing would be even if you just get a small you know and if you're converting your garage you can go on the outside wall because it's already there.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just get one fitted because then you can board around it and the best time to do it is in the winter months because that's when you don't need it it'd probably be slightly cheaper because they want the work rather than trying to fit it on the 13th of June where it's like 33 degrees heat and everyone's trying to get air con.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah yeah just get it done.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have to these days yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely it makes such a difference and it's more comfortable for you like the practitioner if you're in that room for eight nine hours a day you want to be comfortable.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay let's talk about the money side of things because this is the thing that most people want to know and uh you know get a straight answer on.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what did the build actually cost you end to end and how far was that from what you originally budgeted?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously like you said you saved a bit quite a lot of money from doing a lot of things yourselves but yeah tell me a bit more about that.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think shopping around definitely helped with that and I think I've got I'm a bit of a spender whereas my husband was reining me in and I think you need to have that you need to have both of you that can do it together because otherwise you know it was very easy for me to go just buy that it doesn't matter.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know like I said earlier I think somebody wanted 25000 which is a lot we didn't spend anywhere near that you're we're probably well obviously we've not landscaped we haven't done the driveway yet but we're probably looking at I think we're already about 120 probably at least yeah I stopped counting after a while because I just like I felt a bit sick but it's worth it and I think you know there Were other things that you could do like mortgages, you know, people get invest investors.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't, but there are ways around, you know, having to, you know, we did some saving, we put things on our mortgage, you know, and stuff like that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think you have to do what's right for you.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: But in the long run, this is ours.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one thing that I would say.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not paying somebody rent for 10 years.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And with the worry that they're going to turn around and say, because I know clinics have spent 50 to 60,000 pounds just on refurbing, that's gone.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: If they turn around and say to you in six years, sorry, you're out now because they're going to sell it, that's 60 grand wasted.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas we've invested that here, and that is ours.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, if we were to ever sell, we can sell it as a commercial premises.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: They could convert this into a granny annex.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's things, and and we're not we're paying off our own, we're not paying somebody else to I just think that's why we decided to do it.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's yeah, like I say, it's it's an investment in a way because you've added value to your property, and when you sell that, or if if and when you sell that, you will get more more money for it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, and like and you're not spending money on rent, and you're not, you know, liable to be ever kicked out of where you are.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a big thing, and I think it's it's you're kind of governed by whoever owns that property, and then you're liable to keep it maintained as well most of the time for commercial property.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what put us off.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, some of these properties that we're looking at was like, I mean, in Kent is slightly cheaper than London, but I dread to think some of the prices that people have to pay for rent in central London.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you've got a good client base, they will come to you, they will travel.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, for me, I've actually moved slightly closer to Ashford, which is a bit more desirable to where I was before.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: But people will travel once they know you and they want you.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a hairdresser you don't change, which is lovely.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for me, it's just that, you know, I didn't want to be spending two and a half thousand pounds a month on somebody else's mortgage or paying it off.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was the so you said about£100, did you say about£120,000 so far?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: £130,£130.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Was that was that in line with what you thought originally, or is that quite far out?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: We thought maybe about 100.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we are over, but I think that's just because building materials are so expensive, and there's certain things we just didn't factor in.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's certain things that we had to do that you that just come up, you know, that you just had to get done.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: You couldn't not have it done.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there were things like our cesspit that we had to put in.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we've it says not a cesspit, I can't remember what it's called, but it's like um a very eco-friendly one.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted£15,000 to do that.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we hired diggers, we did a lot of it ourselves, and suddenly we'd saved money on that part and then got the cubby to come out and just wire it all up, you know.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: So there are certain things that you can do, but then there were other things that we just hadn't thought about and thought, well, actually, no, we're gonna have to pay that now.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I say, we've not done the outside, the driveway is gonna be a hefty amount.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's got to be done, we've got to put the put the gates in, but it will come, so I'm not too worried.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: They all come together, yeah.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is crazy, isn't it?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: How I mean all these little things add up, and you don't really think of them necessarily at the time, like the cesspit, and people will just be like, oh, 15 grand, like that's nothing.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: That is crazy.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it must be almost impossible, I think, for anyone, unless you're paying, like you say, a very good project manager to who wanted what£250,000.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, when I think about it, he wanted nearly£100,000, really.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, who that what for like four to six I don't even know that in yet why?
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think he actually be doing for that, exactly.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when you speak to other people that actually have project managers and they turn around and go, Oh, well, yeah, but the plumber hasn't turned up to then.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so they still have the same troubles, even being a project manager, they still have to wait.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we were just like, so in some ways, we're quite relieved that we did do it the way we did it.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, because it would have been even more frustrating if you'd spent that extra money on having a project manager and things still weren't getting done properly.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where did the money go that you didn't expect?
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we might have covered a little bit of this, and what were the costs that kind of blindsided you the most?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think things like all the water, we just did realise how much it took to put in like new pipes, the cost of it, like the cesspit, all of that.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: There was no way that we thought that'd be like 15,000 pounds.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it ended up being a bit cheaper than that, but it's those things, it's like the driveway.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: I nearly fell off the chair when my husband told me what the first quote was, and I was like, What?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it's because the cost of things have really gone up.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like I said earlier, tapes, screws, you just don't think.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're thinking like 10 pounds a box and you need hundreds and hundreds of boxes, those all add up.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes the little things that add up the most that you just haven't maybe thought about.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get an interior designer to help you with any of the kind of interior side of things, or did you do all of that side of yourselves?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's an area that I think when I, you know, I've spoken to a lot of practitioners this year who are building or renovating, and the first thing people normally think about is let's get an interior designer.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that in itself can be very, very costly.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think it's worth it?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: You didn't, no.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't you?
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't because I didn't really think about it.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think at the beginning, because we were building it from scratch, we were trying to work with the square footage that we were given.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you're allowed to have this.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: We took it to the architect because the planning department said you can have 90 square metres, or whatever it was, or 120 square metres.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: Can't remember how big the clinic is now.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's about 120.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we were then sectioning that up into what we needed and then working with the architect.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hubby has a very good eye for design, so I think that helped.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: But if he didn't, we probably would have got one.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: We did get an interior designer, we did some remote stuff and we sent some pictures just to kind of help us with the waiting room.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, we've changed things slightly ourselves because we've gone, okay, look, actually, how would this work?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: We need to set it up, you know, and give people a bit more privacy and things like that.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: But again, that's just evolved over time.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: What I would say sometimes you've got to work, like they say in a house, you've got to live in the house to really know.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's only literally been this last two weeks that our waiting room is really coming together now.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like the new chairs have been ordered.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: We've put like these kind of dividers up to create different kinds of walls and bits and pieces instead of it just being one big open kind of waiting room.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: But again, we wouldn't have really known how to have done that.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: We needed to see how it worked originally.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's kind of a good thing.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't rush into anything too quickly.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the space for the treatment rooms would never have changed because we knew, well, we need this, this, and this, and that's what we needed.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but maybe, yeah, for practitioners listening, they don't necessarily need to go in with everything thought out.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: They can go in, live in the space a little bit, and see, yeah, how successful.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And AI, yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know I dread to say this, but AI has helped slightly.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: We've no, we have taken bits of said, look, we want to do this, this, and this, you know, how can it help?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of helped us a little bit.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody was on a bit of a budget, which we have been recently, we've kind of helped to utilise that from that aspect as well.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's quite a good idea.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give it the photo of the waiting room and say, How can we make this better?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, give it the measurements, that kind of thing.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Off the topic of the build, but something I did really want to ask you is you mentioned earlier you grew quite quickly, and that's why you had to kind of move from space to space as you have done.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say are the you know main reasons for that?
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: How did you grow your business into what it's become today?
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like how did you market yourself and what have you done that's helped, you know, really grow your database over time?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've been really unconventional.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think because I've been going 15 years, it is very different to somebody that's starting out now.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the difference.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my work was word of mouth, and actually, I didn't do any social media until I left the NHS because I was so worried about there being a conflict and I didn't do anything.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my bosses knew what I did in my spare time, but I was, you know, on maternity leave and I felt guilty that I was kind of working while I was on maternity.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was all of that.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't really do social media.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't at all.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was literally in COVID that I thought I've got to get on this.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I spoke to a really dear friend of mine, and she was like, Eleanor, I still can't believe you don't do Instagram.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, come on.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sending people pictures, no word of a live via WhatsApp when they contacted me on my personal phone, like before and after, so they could see.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, listen, I'm gonna be professional now.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when it kind of changed.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think then people organically then start to find you because I'd obviously had a bit of a name, people obviously, oh yeah, you've been recommended.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I saw you, I've seen you before and after, so I'd like to book in.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: And never, ever, ever did I ever think one, I would ever leave the NHS, and two, that I'd end up having a business like it has.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think organically it's just grown.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think also adding in more treatments has probably helped keeping more up to date, like for example, now, like by stimulators.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I never got machines until I had moved.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that was because I didn't feel that I could give the best, and I felt the rooms were too small, and I didn't want people to feel like so cramped.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually held back introducing machines until I moved into where I am now two years ago or a year ago, because I just felt that it was better.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say again, then that organically, you know, when you have patients, it's easier to I hate the word sell, but to upsell because patients want to come and see you.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, if you've got a one-stop shop, they will like to come to you to maybe have IPL hair removal rather than going to the beauticians and you know, have pigmentation removed and, you know, all of those types of things rather than just having this the normal kind of Botox filler, biostimulators, polynucleotides, you know, have having a skin therapist, you know, changing it so actually they do skin and they help me with that, so then I can do more of the injectable side.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it just grew and grew and grew.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how it's kind of, you know, the treatments, the size, the rooms, doing the social media, putting myself out there a bit more, which I'm not great at.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just like to stay on my own lane.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think sometimes you have to do it.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say, even if you feel uncomfortable, you know, you really do have to push yourself.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so it grew from when you first opened like what 2012-ish, or when you first started practicing aesthetics, yeah, you it was mainly word of mouth, and you didn't have a website even, I'm guessing, at that point because you were trying to hide, not hide, but you were trying to be discreet, and then COVID hit, and after that, yeah, exactly.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and you started to push, and you've and now you've got a website, you've got social media, and you find a lot of people find you organically through Google, you know, now we've got AI search and Instagram.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the majority of it is still word of mouth.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Still word of mouth.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like lady came in the other day and she said, Oh, I was chatting about you and the hairdressers the other day, and this hairdresser is nowhere near me.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good four to five-minute journey.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other lady went, Oh, is that Eleanor in Ham Street?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she goes, Oh, I go there too.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other lady went, Oh, I would be following her.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm gonna book in.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's that trusting.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, you know, people we do talk about it a lot more.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what happens is when you organically start treating more and you're doing different treatments, you know, people then send to talk about them.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I tend to get those bookings where people then just organically will then come and say, Oh, yeah, you know, you were recommended to me by my hairdresser, my beautician, my nail lady, my friend, my mum, you know, whoever it may be.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would say as well, with word of mouth, it's a lot more powerful in areas like I mean, I'm I live 10 minutes down the road from you, and that we're we're like we're not near a big city, but there's lots of little pockets of towns and villages, and because we're not near a big city, there's a real lack of good clinics and injectors.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I you know, I think I'd have to go to like Maidstone or you know, up that way, more towards London.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's quite you you you're probably in a quite a strong point because you don't have much competition in terms of medical injectors around you.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, but when you think about London, you are right.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can walk down and there could be five clinics in one street.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there is an amazing clinic in Canterbury.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: There I know there's another nurse that's doing very well in like the other side of Ashford to me, and there are a few, but it's pockets, and I like I say to people, you know, I've tried to, but one of mine is a very good friend of mine, and we, you know, we we're always seeing each other and liaising, I think that's really important.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: And even with the other girls, I've said, look, if you need any support, like we might need it, just you know, we we've seen each other at conferences, and I've always said, you know, there is enough work for everyone, so always be nice because you never know when you're gonna need someone, but from that point of view, it's quite good because, like I say, it's we're spread out, we're not within like vicinity of like being down the road, spread out, exactly.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're quite spread out, so I think yeah, that area of Kent that you're in, you've got quite a large radius, and yeah, and where where you've not really got much competition, and yeah, but you will find someone 45 minutes away, probably you know, would be talking about you in a hairdressers and would come to you because the communities are like that, yeah, and kind of everyone knows everyone, you know.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, just goes to show you how powerful the word of mouth can be.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this is why what we did with the builders at the end, and they're the ones that ended up helping us.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, came through.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: So today, yeah, absolutely.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's wind down the episode a little bit.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: If a practitioner's listening to this and seriously is thinking about building or, you know, significantly converting the space that they're in at the moment, what is the first thing you would tell them to do before anything else?
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Plan bigger than what you're doing.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't, you're gonna have to end up moving.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing is, is that you will grow.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna, you know, this industry is booming, you know, and actually I think there's gonna be a big shift between beauticians and medics, which is gonna set you aside from other people.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think what we didn't do is we weren't proactive enough to look at maybe what was going to happen because I think I was like, don't be silly, this isn't gonna happen.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and you put you put yourself down in some ways and go, no, no, no, no.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you need to overspec, get a couple of rooms at least, don't just do one because you'll be surprised at maybe how quickly it could evolve.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you wish you'd done that earlier on, you know, gone for a bigger space rather than having that move, that house move in between where you are now and where you were.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, yeah.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are the three biggest mistakes you see people make when they take on a project like this?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you avoid them?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not having the right people, letting people sway you.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be really stuck to your guns.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, don't let the architect lead you because they'll give you some million-pound mansion when actually you need a smaller clinic, you know, when they start talking to you about, oh, well, you can use this cladding, and you're like, hang on, that cladding's like a hundred pounds for one sheet and it doesn't even do like a meter.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's those things that you have to sort of think about, you know, you have to rein them in and say, look, it needs to look good, but from a cost element, so don't let them sway you because, you know, it's not their budget at the end of the day.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they just want to make it look really good.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: But there's other things that you can use.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think make sure you have the right people in the right places so you know you are getting a planning consultant on board straight away because they are the ones that know what's going on in your loquaria.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're the ones that are going to come in and say, Eleanor, you're not gonna get a 200,000 square foot clinic down there, they're gonna say no, so don't waste your time.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: That will then stop the chewing and throwing.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: And line up, get quotes, line up your builders and ask your patients.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the other thing as well, definitely.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, ask patients.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like that one.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good one.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: But anyone listening to this who wants to do what you've done, but maybe on a smaller budget, what's the most important thing to protect in terms of spend and where is it safe to save money?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's difficult because I think I think we everything that we've done, it's been very calculated because we'd already done it before.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like glass can be very expensive.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: So actually we didn't want to do a whole glass-fronted clinic because actually it gets really hot in the summer.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we had learned that, whereas it aesthetically, it looks amazing.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think again, it's looking at different ways of making it look really good, but thinking about how you can ventilate it, getting the air con and looking at the room sizes to make sure that they are good aesthetically and for a working purpose, that you're not tripping over everything.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think then you, and then when you're spending your money, you know, try and have a budget so you know what you're working to, but just be mindful that you're probably going to go over it slightly.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've never met anyone that says we haven't gone over, but you can do it small and you can do things really well.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think back to, I mean, I have patients that have been coming to me since I had the converted garage, and they're like, Do you remember when I came to you in the garage?
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, that was lovely.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh my goodness, that's crazy, you know.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there are things like even that, you don't even have to convert the garage door.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can block it from the outside, you can have your side door entrance.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you can do things in a cheaper way at the beginning, just to kind of have a very good professional environment.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be spending a lot.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like a star space.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: But just make sure it's warm.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you as you grow, you've got more money that you can then invest and invest in.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, invest back in.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, before we go, we're gonna do a quick fire round.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna ask you a few questions just for your for quick one-line answers.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the one thing you spent money on that was absolutely worth every penny.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think I know what you were gonna say.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: A soundproofing.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Go the extra mile.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing you wish you hadn't spent money on?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: My tap.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds really stupid, okay, but I went for this all singing, all dancing.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a Dyson tap, and it was a lot of money.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: It blew up twice.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it had the air dryer with everything, and in a year it's gone twice.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I I'm I've managed to get my money back because under warranty, but I'm not so now I've just gone for your traditional paper towels, a bin, and a normal tap.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we think that we're gonna be, you know, we want all of this like high-tech, da-da-da-da.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: It costs an absolute fortune.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: I got a tap for 30 pounds from Haldens versus the two grand tap that blew up twice.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's gone.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because with these high-tech things, well, yeah, there's more likely that thing is more likely that things are gonna go wrong, isn't it?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: Biggest planning mistake to avoid.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not getting a builder consultant in quicker.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_00: Really, really is a must to be liaising with your architect.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: You need to make sure that that planning consultant is working with your architect from day dot.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: That would it will save time, it will save you money, and you know exactly what you're doing.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: The one question you wish someone had asked you before you started.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you want to do this?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure you're doing the right thing?
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think the thing is when somebody says that to you, you kind of go, you know, why?
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why did I do that?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think not being blindsided and not knowing like maybe like all the different kinds of aspects that you need to take into account.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: One thing every practitioner should know before signing anything related to a property or build.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think have the conversations before.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you what we did was is we, when we were looking at properties, we had the architect on board and we were saying, Look, how do you do you think we're gonna push this through?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: If we'd have had the planning consultant, I think that would have given us more of a maybe me to be able to say yes to this property now quicker than what it had because I was worried.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think having those, having those conversations with somebody immediately about what you want to achieve and what you want to do actually helps the process because then when you do find something, they're gonna better say, well, it's probably gonna be unlikely because of the access.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's so many things you have to think about.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've had transport managers come down and given us written reports for the council about is it going to affect the road, highways, you name it, you don't realise actually how many other people are involved, and it isn't just a planning person.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: So having those conversations immediately, the planning consultant then was able to say, Well, you'll be fine because actually the transport person will say this, this and this, but you might have to open up, you might have to set your gates back a little bit, you might have to do a slightly wider, widened, you know, kind of entry point, all of those things, but they know that whereas those are things we just hadn't thought about.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing how many boxes there are to tick.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you were starting the build again tomorrow, what would you do first that you didn't do the first time round?
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I think I know what you're gonna say.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_00: Planning consultant, definitely.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Having them on having them on board will actually make your life 20 because they are the ones that sit down and say, they were the ones that said, right, we need to get highways out there, let's get the transport guy out there, let's do this.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, things from an ecological point of view.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: You need this survey, that survey.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: My husband had emails where he'd written to people like, da-da-da, I need this.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, No, no, you don't need that.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: When we finally got the he was like, No, no, you do need that survey.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: So what were they telling you?
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to go back to them and say, actually, no, then we need that.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna pay more and have that done.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think what you don't take into account is the amount of money you spend on surveys as well, actually.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of money, but you need them, so it's a bit of a you're blindsided because you have to do them.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: So no matter what, make sure you've got a pot of money for that separately as well.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Best piece of advice you receive during the whole process from the beginning was us leading the architect, not the architect leading us, particularly because you know, we've done things before and we're like, but how are we gonna afford that?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: They said we've they've told us we have to use this.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are lots of different types of materials that you can use that can still look really good.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to be spending thousands on marble, for example.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've tiled the outside of us and cladded it, and actually the fusion works really, really well.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we were bringing him back saying, no, no, we're not gonna be using a thousand pounds per square meter kind of cladding.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: We need it to be this, this, and this.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, try and take some of the windows out.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want the whole it to be like kind of bifolding doors all the way across because actually it's going to be too hot and the cost of windows is a lot.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: So reigning him in a little bit to make sure that that budget was kept in was a was the best piece of advice that we had.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this has been such a helpful episode.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, you've given so much value.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure people will take away loads from it.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so it's a bit of a blueprint guide if you're thinking about you know building a clinic or even renovating a space.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so thank you so much for coming on and sharing all of your uh experiences with us.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad that you're finally, you know, in and you settled.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've still got a few things to do, but it is a it's an amazing clinic.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: And for anyone who wants to kind of find out more about you or maybe speak to you and ask you questions, where should they go?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they find you?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you so my Instagram's probably the best thing, even though I used to hate it.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: So if you follow me at revive.cosmetics and you can send me a message, then my number's on there.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can always message.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get a voice note back because I'm kind of Sam a voice note queen.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just voice note everybody.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I'm more than happy to help as much as I can because I know it can be a mind field.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sharing is caring.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if we can learn from others, it can make a huge, huge difference to what you're gonna go through.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thank you so much again.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll put if anyone wants does want to reach out to you, I'll pop all the details in the show notes below.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.