Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / Mina Bansaeid - Dalston - Identity and Belonging

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Mina Bansaeid - Dalston - Identity and Belonging · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not just a refugee.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want everywhere that I go.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, here's Mina the refugee.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Mina the refugee, which I have no problem with that.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: I am privileged to be able to be a refugee and get the right to remain here.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean I waited three years to get that.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: But there is more in us.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: If people see us just a refugee, not see us as a person.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: And all the things that you bring to you.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's not just me, all of the refugees and people that the immigrants or the people that are from LGBT community or the people that are from global majority, people with disabilities, all of this.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: If people can't see you as a human being with all of other things, then you are not just a refugee.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, exactly.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever felt that people see one part of who you are and somehow miss everything else?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to season four of Sakania, the Walk and Talk Podcast.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: And what a conversation to kick us off.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: For our first walk, I'm joined by artist and community advocate Mina Bannisade.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: And we're wandering through Dalston near Carlisle.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: Mina and I have known each other for years, and after about four years of saying we get together for a coffee, we finally made it happen.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: Still no coffee though, so I'm coming for you, Mina.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Goodness me, what a conversation.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: We talk about growing up in Iran, freedom, navigating a new life in the UK, understanding ADHD and the women who've opened doors along the way.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: And we explore what it means to be recognised for all the different parts of who we are rather than just being defined by one.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's thoughtful, sometimes emotional, and full of those little moments that make you stop and question your own assumptions about other people.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: This season I've listened and we're sharing the walk with you in video.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_04: So whether you're joining us from a sofa, your laptop, or on a walk, let's get sorted and let's walk.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: Hey Mina, how are you?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Hi, I'm good.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: Good morning.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm good.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's a beautiful day.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_04: Isn't it just look at the cows?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_04: Look at the cows.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: I love the cows.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: So where are we, Mina?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: We are in Dalston.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_04: In Carl near Carlisle.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: Near Carlisle.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a beautiful park here.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: I used to walk from Carlisle to Dalston and back.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's around like 12 miles.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: If you go up to that, the doors uh greenish down there, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: So it was a challenge that I was actually completing for mind.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: For mind, yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it was a hundred uh miles.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: In a month.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, how did you find that?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think I I told myself I just set myself this challenge because I need to achieve something and also my mental health wasn't good.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: How many years ago?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it was 2021, and uh it was like two years after I moved to the UK.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I wasn't feeling very well mentally.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I did that, uh, but I couldn't go that many times.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: And at the beginning I was just like, oh, why you set up a challenge for yourself that you can't do it?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I ended up to do it ten days in ten days.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like you did it in ten days?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, whenever I was off work, I was coming out, yeah, so and it was beautiful, and uh yeah, I finished it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_04: So like a hundred miles is quite intimidating, yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: Especially if you've not you're not a walker.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hiya, morning.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: To be honest, I was a walker.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you were?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so not here, yeah.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: So in my country, uh-huh, uh I am from Iran.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_04: From Iran, yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we don't have that many paths or places that you can walk or go to walk.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and especially for women, like it's not that many, like you can be a you can get cat calling and then many other things.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I really love this river.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this river is beautiful.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes I was common on standing here for me for 10 minutes, 15 minutes just looking at it.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: There's something nice about standing near water.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just so foaming.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, so there are not that many like places that women actually people can go for a walk, yeah, especially women.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I remember whenever I was getting like really overwhelmed, angry, happy, or whatever.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: I was going for a walk, yeah, and it didn't happen till I was like in my uh late 20s, okay, that I was allowed to go out by myself.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I was living house, uh like walking.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: And when you say allowed to go out, what do you mean?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: So as a woman, yeah, until you're living in your parents' house, yeah, uh, you need to get permission.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see, okay.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like my mum and dad didn't let me to go out, but you needed to bring it an excuse or reason that you want to go out.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: So you couldn't just go for a walk because there's no purpose to that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh at the beginning, my mom is a very active uh woman and uh but it is about like are you actually going for the walk?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I see you need to see someone, yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: This way, yeah, getting age.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was walking a lot uh and I looked at it.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: And they had like a car.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: And then you started getting driven around.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh not that much, but not as much as I could before.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thank you.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: But and at some point it just stopped actually.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh oh, you stopped.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it just stopped.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh this challenge actually brought me back to walking.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's so nice.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you forget, don't you, how much you love something and what benefit you get from it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but then I hate running.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: I remember like at the end, the like at the end of the challenge, yeah, like maybe two like I was like 20 miles away from achieving that goal.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that my body was like run.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, and part of the journey I was running, yeah, but not that much, yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so and I started listening to podcasts actually.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, from there, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I always thought, like, oh my god, it would be boring to listen to someone talking, yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're walking, I need to either have a company or have like very uh cheery music that I want to dance.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, get some energy, yeah, and I wasn't that much familiar with podcasts.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I think when I was walking, I was thinking about my mental house and my hand.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, oh, okay.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: I know, do you know?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think I fall over in almost every podcast episode.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_07: You need to watch yourself.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, go.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I started like uh I wasn't that much familiar with podcasts, but yeah, I was thinking how I can actually get the most of this walking.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a long time to be walking.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was thinking about my mental health.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: I searched and I found this little Dr.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Rang Rangan Chachchi.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I love him.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I started listening to him.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he's a great podcast.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I loved the way that he was talking and the fact that he's a GP.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, but he he talks about what else is important, yes.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's not just popular medicine.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I I absolutely loved it and I got a lot from it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh good.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: After that, I started searching for other podcasts.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: So technically, my podcast journey, listening to podcasts, started from that walk actually.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So at some part of my walk, I just stopped even listening to any podcasts.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh really?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I started just enjoying the nature.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's quite a journey, isn't it?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_04: To go from like music to get motivated to podcast to nothing.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: But it is it is there, like it's it's what makes it amazing now.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like mindfulness, it's just in the moment, yeah, instead of running away from it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, it's sitting with your thoughts.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it just happened, I think 10 days.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, wow.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's not a long time, really, is it?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: But as a human being and say this defense, yeah, you forget, yeah, yeah, and then you come back to it like you just found it for the first time again.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it's cycles though, isn't it?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like you kind of up and down like it's just normal, I think.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I moved to Victor, which is really far from far back.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like I decided to leave.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was like kind of the situation changed and I needed to leave.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see, okay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we broke up and I needed to move out.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it was sad because it was leaving the place that I love.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: That I just made connection with.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: And felt that this place is my city.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Leave it again.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: I left everything.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, uh, it was really sad.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a tough yeah, and then I I was in a job that it was so good.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so there's a lot of things going on at the same time.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I started to get better, I got I had the car accident.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, and I injured my back.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh me, no.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: I am still suffering from it.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think I started my first walk again, and I did it just once with Sam again.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Around this area.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's beautiful by the way.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Goodness, it's stunning.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: I love colours, yeah.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's popping.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: You say like purple and uh green really sit each other, or purple and yellow, or yellow and green.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can see it in the nature, just sunny.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful this is and it's like so easy to get to this area, and also trees.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I used to not used to, whenever I see trees, I hug them.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it feels really good.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Are you hugging this one?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think so.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it is just like uh grounding, yeah.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's it feels like you feel them, yeah, and they feel you.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and it's about the is it pheromones, tree pheromones or something.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: They release something that makes you feel good.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's it like a uh thing in Japanese.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: What is baby?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like of how much of an alternate man.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh big.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's so nice.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: And if you think how old this is how many, many degrees and centuries is in here.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like so wise.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: The roots are actually connecting with other roots.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know something about trees that I sort of love.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes it feels a bit emotional actually.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm feeling quite moved.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I draw myself on a tree.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, do you?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, because of course you're an artist as well, aren't you?
• 13:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people call me, aren't they?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'd say so.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'd say so.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: But before we talk about that, should we talk about what it felt like when you like moved to a new country?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was a scary.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big decision.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, these decisions are not light, are they?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, it took me two years.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: It took me two years to decide uh whether I want to move here or not.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because I moved here by visa.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I had like four years' visa of the right to work.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I I could actually decide, I had this privilege to decide, even though my country wasn't a good country for someone like me as a woman.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: A woman that do doesn't obey the rules.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: And when we say doesn't obey the rules, what do we mean?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: So there are some traditional cultural rules that you need to obey.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Be a good woman.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I see, okay.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Don't age men.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Don't put that much makeup on.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Don't wear uh you should wear like your hair in um don't have friends that they are boys.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Oh I see, gosh.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Sean stay out uh nights until like nine at night.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: All of these.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I wasn't listening to this.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it always caused me problems.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: With my parents, and like and I think my parents were trying to actually protect me.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like exactly what they believed that it should be, but they didn't want me.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was it wasn't easy for a woman anyways to live in a country like my country.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: But also for someone like me, it was even more difficult.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it took me two years and then I decided to, yeah, I think it's worth it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I stay, my life will be miserable.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Or trigger burning.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I either end up to take my own life or somebody else will do it for me.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was what I thought.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is yeah.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh so I left my family, my safe uh spaces, places, my friends, my language, yeah, everything.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your food, yeah, my food, yeah, the smells, the music, yeah, everything.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so for have a chance to live a life uh as a normal human being without being scared of yeah, feeling safe.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I came here and uh I didn't have any expectations that uh oh they are going to uh put in like a red carpet for me.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, red carpet for me, yeah, or I am going to have everything I didn't know anything about benefits system or okay about NHS or anything.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so why did you choose this country?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: So it was uh so I came here by a spouse visa.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: So my ex-husband actually was here.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I see.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not like I got married to him when he was here.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: We got married way before when we were 25.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right, I see.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, back in Europe.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and when I moved here, I was 32.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right, okay, yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because some people think like you get married to someone that is in the UK to come here, yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's it's true.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: There are some people that do sham marriage, yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: But you are already in everybody, yeah, exactly.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, yeah, I left here about I think the marriage was broken.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I was on my own, right, doing everything.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um oh, so that's that's also scary because you're not supported.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: In a way.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: Have you got any other family in this country?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, well, it's just me.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: So the marriage already was broken, and uh yeah, I needed to do everything on my own and I I couldn't speak English.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I need some English because uh in it at a school and a uni we have some like lectures or some modules that is English, but technically it's mainly grammar.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Most of our teachers don't speak good English.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like my mom uh sent us to the English classes during summertime like 13 years old.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_03: But the fact is we weren't wealthy.
• 19:01
  unknown: Okay.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: These classes were so expensive, yeah.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom could just afford it for a month.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: How many siblings do you have?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh two.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: Two, okay.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have a sister older than me and my brother, okay.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh younger than me.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: These uh these classes actually encourage my sister to go and study English literature.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: At uni.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's cool.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So she's a translator.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow! But for me, like you forget it.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if you're not using it all the time.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because you speak farcy.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you don't speak English anymore.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I used to watch a lot of movies and like it's subtitled and everything.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: So my I think my listening wasn't that bad, but I was more familiar with American English, not Cambrian British English.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's quite something, isn't it?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: To get used to accents as well that because uh like what you see out there in countries that are not UK, it is mainly like the English that uh the Londoners actually speak.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, very like, which I think is not a good thing.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because they don't uh promote that look, there is a Kongrian accent and like in Liverpool.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love these accents.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they're not, yeah, you're right, it's very mainstream.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_04: They don't um they get give an impression of the UK being quite they're selling this impression, yeah, and this narrative that look at this.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_04: It is all the same everywhere, yeah, but each region is different.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: They don't talk about La Cumbria, yeah, which is a beautiful place.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um I really love yeah, yeah, to be honest.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't, yeah, you didn't.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't, to be honest, when I moved here, yeah.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but it's a culture shock, isn't it?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's a culture shock, but at the same time, I I thought like, oh my god, like it's a small city, yeah.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to find a job, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's not diverse enough, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was scared, yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: All very valid.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I couldn't see much, I didn't have friends or anything.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then I remember we went to Tule House, we had this journal friends came and took us to Tule House, and there is an exhibition in a museum, the Roman uh museum.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and I I absolutely love history, yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: And when I saw and read what is it and how Carlisle was, what is Carlisle.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I just thought, oh my god, that is amazing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, cool, yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the history of it, yeah, and knowing that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: For how many, many centuries has been a strategy uh point.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just fascinating.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: And just feeling that you're that close to that history.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was like interesting.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because for me it wasn't about like people.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: For me, when I moved here, my priority was to find a job.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, of course.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: To learn the language.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And what kind of jobs were you looking for?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: What were you doing in Iran before you came?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: I knew that uh I need to start from zero.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: So back home I was doing my master's degree in material engineering.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I I was in it last semester, I just needed my dissertation to be handed.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: But this opportunity happened and I thought I'm I'm leaving.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: You need to take it.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: What I'm going to say.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't finish it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I worked as an accountant for a while.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: I worked as an accountant.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: But then uh divorce left wasn't good for women.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I was married.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I left us late.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: So technically I wasn't working here when I moved here.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: I was just studying.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: So but when I came here, I I didn't mind what I I do.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't mind if I am washing dishes or cleaning toilets or which is none of them are bad.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: They all needed respectful uh employment.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: I have no nothing to say about this.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, please.
• 23:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: Anybody out there doing these jobs?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_04: We need it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Really tough.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I didn't mind.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to be able to be independent.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And to be honest, because I grew up in need of, I always crave independency.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I wasn't allowed to be independent.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Technically, I was partially adult.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I never lived as an adult.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_04: You weren't, yeah, you were never allowed to have that freedom.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think I still struggled with that because I can't manage my money.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: Can we just here?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: But it's here a little bit more.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: We can have a little pause near the river.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, I can't speak, but I just let's sit a little bit.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: But if you want to pause, that's fine.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, as in stop moving.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Not pause the recording.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: English.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: No English.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it was I needed to be an adult.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know how to be an adult.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I I just I guess protecting your children is one thing, but not giving you the skills.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I remember I was 18 and I was studying math actually, which I never finished it.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now I know why I never finished many, many things.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I have a combined type of ADHD.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember like I found a job in a post office in that city.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I asked my dad, can I work?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and that that person actually wrote a letter uh for me to work in a post office in my city.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: So my dad said no to that one.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, Oh, okay, it's not in our city.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I started working without even telling them.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: I was 18.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: And that's my watch.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: What is it?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've done one mile.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, my dad said no, so I started working without telling them.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: But it ended up like that guy again, uh, like not a safe place to work.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: But he gave me a letter to actually work in another post office.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I told my dad, like, it's here, it's like a very good place.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like in the city center, and I can actually progress.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, just study.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, whatever they are going to pay you, I give up.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you just study.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like this uh like in my country, a study is so important and yeah, exactly.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: So never anymore.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: So actually, you didn't have to manage a budget, you didn't have to do any of this.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: So it was difficult, but I was willing to do anything.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up to actually work as a pot washer on the first job.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like uh in Carlisle.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in Carlisle.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: In two months or three months after I moved here, but before that, I started doing some volunteering.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that first week that I came here, I applied to be a volunteer with British Heart Fire Foundation.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: So imagine my English is not good.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just going for an interview.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, they asked me why I want to do that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: I said I have a family history of heart condition.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like my aunts, my uh everybody in my family has a heart condition, so it's just so important for me.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's good to find something that you're connected to.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: But they didn't give me the volunteer.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what was the reason.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: They never actually said what was the reason, but they didn't give it to me.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I ended up to work in a another animal uh charity shop.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't know if it was it fairplace, fireplace, something like that.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was in Butcher Gate.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it was really nice that people that I worked with.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I worked with Crack, Caller Refugee Action Group as a volunteer.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: I worked with young people.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like children when they there was their opinions for English lessons.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the parents would uh leave their kids to be looked after, and then they were doing uh their English.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see, okay.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, because of that I was looking after children.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, I think I was seeking some community, some like I don't know, some some people that I I know their culture and everything.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: I am half Arab, my dad is Arab, and I am more close to my Arab uh culture than my uh Force side of that.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: They both are from Iran, my mum and dad, but my dad is Arab from south of Iran, okay, and my mom is force, uh, and they met in the same city in the south.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um so but we have more connection with my Arab side of family, the music, the food, the dance, the like everything.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's mainly in the Arab culture, and I feel so close to Arab people.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: So they were mainly Syrian refugees.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, and yeah, and saying to them, Oh, my dad is Arab, I can understand a little bit Arabic, and it was a way to actually connect with them.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, it was a little bit uh painful as well.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you're missing a piece of that.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was missing the piece, and I was uh an immigrant, they were refugees, so as an immigrant, I didn't have any support.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, but I would see that the struggles are the same.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I am supporting who supports me, yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, which it was like, I think at the beginning it was like really tough.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it wasn't easy, and it's not easy even now.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I feel like it is even getting harder.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: As yeah, I think uh seven years ago I felt more safe than now.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, now it's crazy, isn't it?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's frightening.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: It is painful, it's frightening, it's it's frightening to go out.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, even when I drive, like yesterday actually this happened.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I recently started to listening to like Iraqi music.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because I am, I don't know if for some reason I am trying to actually learn more about my Arab heritage as well as my uh forced heritage.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know I'm Arab, I know that my ancestors came from Iraq, I know that uh all of this, but I never had that much of a like a connection with the Arab side.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have connection.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: You feel more close to it, but you're missing that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I think it's so interesting when uh we talk here about like uh mixed race uh people and the people that they grew up in this country, but they have family in another country, yeah, and how much like they feel connection but not connection.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they belong to that, but they don't belong to that, or they are not being accepted in any of those.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like that.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was going to south, I was the person from Isfahan.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I was speaking uh like my accent was like Isfahanian people.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: When I was going to Isfahan, I was that Arab uh Kusestani person that my accent was Khuzestani.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I was uh my my accent, I was pronouncing a word uh that was like uh Khustani accent, and I remember like people laughed at me.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's not nice.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I just changed it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did you?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I am the only person in my family that doesn't have Husestani accent.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I still pronounce some of the words uh in a Husestani way, but I don't have the actual accent.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but everybody else has it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: That it that's a trauma, isn't it?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, was it trauma or was it like I wanted to accept it, yeah, especially when I started going to university because in the city that I was living in, it was like as big as Carlisle, and it is one of another reason I love Carlisle.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: But uh they were all Husestanis, so they were all people from Husestan.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: They actually called the place that I lived in like uh mini Abadon.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Abadon is that city that's uh my mom and dad are but and I never been exposed to the Spahani, like a whole Spahonian county.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: So when I went to Uni, I encountered more Esfahanis.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I learned how to speak an Islamic accent as well.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's fitting in, isn't it?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I I wasn't using it, I was using it as like not mocking, but in a jokey way.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, like I think unconsciously, yeah, I didn't have that accent because the the way that Islamic people were looking at us as uh Abordonian people uh wasn't a good way.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because so we are from Muslim country, but like Aboridonians mainly, uh they have like their uh wedding ceremonies, like men and women together.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: We don't we didn't wear like any revealing clothing or anything, but we were together, we were dancing together, but in Esfahani and Ron.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: They have a separate uh thing for men and women, they don't like get together and supposed to like look at them.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: So Abuadon was a place that the oil companies and refineries and everything were open by the British Empire.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: So there were a lot of British people in in Abuadon, there were bars, right?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: There were like pubs, yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like the it was a different way of like should we go?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think we should go back because there's no way that's fine around there.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: So the the way even there are houses still that is like a British house is so when I moved here, I could remember that oh they look familiar.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is so familiar, yeah, because my uh dad's uh cousins actually live in those houses, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And they were for refineries, okay.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: So because of that, because the culture that uh Husestani people actually grow up was different, so yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: So is it is that part of why identity is so important to you?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think it's a subject to be more important when I moved here.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: Right, because interesting, yeah.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think before that, when I was in Iran, superiority was me being a woman.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: So oh I see.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: I always talk about intersectionality, yeah, um, sense of belonging because it's important.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can you imagine I am a woman, but I'm not just a woman, I'm a woman with a deity, I am a refugee woman, yeah.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: I am a refugee Iranian woman, I am a queer person, yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so there are many, many identities that you actually carry.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're not one or other, no, you're all of them together, and balancing all of those parts of you, and it's so important that when you look at a person, you look at all of these, and then you can have very good communication or yeah, we're going to do the right way.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: I have no idea.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't feel familiar to me, but anyways, I feel like we did walk down here.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, to be honest.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not the right person.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, we'll be together.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you can't just uh put a finger on a person and just say this person is this or that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes in the places or in the environment or some situation, one of your identities are more there than another one.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the identity that either causes you so much problem and discrimination.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: This is how I see it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's right or wrong.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, but this is how I view it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: And in other places, like either cause you so much problems or give you so much privilege.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess that is that born from your personal lived experience?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was in Iran, I think first of all, I wasn't aware of all of these things.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: But being a woman was causing me so much problem.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because I couldn't leave other.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_04: When did you first identify that?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like when when did you become aware that I'm a woman and because of that my liberties are restricted?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think when I when my sister actually started her uh menstrual cycle.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: She was only 10.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, that's young.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was seven.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember we were going to go to my aunt's house in the south of Iran.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: We were traveling, and my mom told me, don't tell anybody that your sister has it.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is a what?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh if you tell them they they are going to actually ask her to marry their sister.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: And she was 10 years old.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my mom was really, really like uh trying to protect us.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think I really, really adore my mom.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: I I know you didn't understand back then, but now I know how much what she was doing, yeah, and how much pain and fear she was carrying and trying to protect us in a way that it was known for her.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: She knew she knew just that way.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, gosh.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because my mom got married and she was 15.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh she was 13 and they got engaged.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_04: Heartbreaking, isn't it?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so and I'm always a very intelligent person.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: She always, oh, my mom is amazing.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's so nice.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: But like she started her education, finished her education with my sister, actually.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's great.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: She got to the uni, but it was like a private uni, so she couldn't afford it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: She needed to ask to go to uni so she couldn't go.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: So my mom is so talented and so intelligent.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: So by saying that, it's like if you start your period, it's not safe.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, good.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're a woman.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: And to oh god, yeah, I don't even know how to process that.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then it was about like I remember I had a little bit breast.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, like it wasn't even even shown.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember my mom said you need to wear bra now.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I still hate bras.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: The first thing I do when I take it off.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Take it off.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes when my day is finishing, I don't even wait to get home or take it out in the cough.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because I hate it.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I cried.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: My mom gave me a bra.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: I said, don't tell anybody I'm wearing it.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't want to grow up, I think.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it was because I knew many things is going to change.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the first thing my mom did told our best neighbor that was our closest friend.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Amina is wearing brown.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: I got so upset, and just uh I can't even describe how upset I was.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: And um then I started my period really late.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was 15 and we started.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's because I have like a PCOS.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: So but I remember I went to the toilet.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it was good that I knew that I had a sister that had her period, but I didn't know still what is period.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh, I see, okay.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: But there's no education, nothing.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I went to the toilet and I started blood.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I started crying.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was so scared.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what was it because I heard that about my sister, or was it just because I knew it's changing with something new?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I said to my mom.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: My mom putting like uh vina, I'm Cumbrian now, putting lunch on the table.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: She had dinner.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: Dinner on the table.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: And asked me to come and eat.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I opened the door and cried and said, Oh, I just started my video.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: So my mom gave me a pad.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Let me show you how to put it.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if he had those kind of pads, but it was just like a glue.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like a bowl or something.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're quite big and thick.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_04: They're big.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: The glues were gluing.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the glue was gluing.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: Just don't put it the wrong way around.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: I did.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no, Vila.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: My mum was saying that like, let me show see.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: At least let me see how you put it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: I put it the wrong way.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, ouch.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I straight away went to my bed and I didn't eat.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't happy.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_04: You were just sad, yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_04: Needed to change it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_07: It was okay.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that would have made you cry again.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: But then I knew.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: I knew how good it is.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_04: You learnt the hard way.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think from that very early age.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember we were like playing with our cousins, like really close to our cousins.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, in oh, sorry.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's all.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: I know here is not a good thing, or people see it as a disgusting thing.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: But in my country and many other countries.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: You can't actually marry our cousins.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we were so close to our cousins.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like people here that say our cousins is like our brothers, sisters.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: So for me and for my sister, it was exactly the same.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: So when I got to the age of like 13, 14, we didn't allow to play with our cousin.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I see, because you were more womanly.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't allow even sit with them and have a conversation, or we couldn't go out together.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Then you're grieving a friendship.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Suddenly everything changed.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Changed.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now, last summer I was here, like I could play with my cousin, could like laugh, chat, stay up till three.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: And this year, all of a sudden everything changes.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: All of these, like all these women milestones are actually um negatively impacting your social life.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and from age of nine, wow, uh, you need to start wearing hijab outside when we go to a school, yeah, like a tiny six years old needs to wear hijab and all of these like very uh big heavy things, yeah.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it is it is just not good.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: So wearing hijab, uh like covering ourselves.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that hijab is bad, but if you choose it, it's it's good.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: But if you be forced to wear it, yeah, and have no choice for it, it's not good.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, so I think for girls and women in living in a country like my country from the age of nine, that they you are actually it's mandatory for you to get a hedgehog, it's mandatory for you to uh start uh praying.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: For for boys is 15.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for girls is nine.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow, and we had a ceremony for that young for girls compared to boys, yeah, and we had a ceremony for that, right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that uh they took photos of us, put hedge up on our head, like a trade door, and uh take the photos while we are praying, yeah.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: So you just know that you're a girl, you need to cover yourself, and then they were there were many other things, like um it is in my country I was dealing with it.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not saying that everybody in my country had the same experience, yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like with the general experience.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is your perspective, yeah.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: The general thing, yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody had the general thing, like at age of nine, the they celebrate things and all of this for them.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: But about other things, like we had this.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: So if you have a you have an imam named Imam Hossein, okay, uh which was killed in Karbala.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: 70 of them went to have a fight with this uh person and uh his name was Yazid.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: It was in a desert in Karbala.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't have water or anything, they had babies and everything, and all of them being killed by like brutally, this is what is in the uh stories.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and every year Muslim people like Shia people actually mourn for that for ten days.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Oh we see because it took ten days as well, right?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: So because of that they were telling us when you drink water, say Yahuse.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh see means you remember your person.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: Remember, remember that 2,000 years ago, a thousand years ago, somebody that was our Emma and his family didn't have water.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Water, gosh.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's reminding you that you're Muslim.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think if it was as a sentimental thing, it's a beautiful thing to remember.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you eat, remember all of the people that they can't have food.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when you drink, remember all of the people around the world that they don't have a clean water to drink.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: When you take a shower, remember this.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_03: When you have a gas, electricity, all of this, like remember all the people and how privileged you are.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't something like that.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was being forced to, as a like a kid, being like you need to be scared.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: You need because I remember when I was drinking water, it was at the age of 9-10 that there was like celebration and everything.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: I remember like I was forgetting sometimes.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I didn't know how many times I forgot.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: So last time, the next time that I was having the water, I was saying y'all was important like a hundred times.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because I genuinely believe I'm going to to hell.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god, yeah.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that's all this way.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like a genuine fear, yeah.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like I I had fear, and it's like being brainwashed, yeah, and it's not right.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: So my problem is this like why me as a nine-year-old, and it did take long, it wasn't like just I was literally, I think it's it took very long till I was like maybe a teenager.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, these kind of things.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: So when you say it took long till you were teenager, what do you mean?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like from nine years old, I was you're thinking when I drink water, I just see, yeah, gosh.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: To realise, no, don't worry.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: But I still I was worried.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_03: So all of this is just being aware how much you are.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: Baby couldn't have boyfriends.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: I heard many stories about this girl that had a boyfriend was killed by her father.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Uh or being forced to marry their uh rapist.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_03: Goodness me, yeah.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or all of these, so yeah, because it's yeah.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we could have been arrested by the police if they saw us with a random man.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: What?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have morality police for our better.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we still have morality police.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: Even when I was going to uni, we had morality police, yeah.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_03: Stop you to go to your exam or whatever if they are not happy with your what you wear or your paper or all of this.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: So you could be arrested.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it would be a very, very bad thing for your family.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_04: It's actually really stressful, then just to actually leave the house, it might be easier not to.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_04: This is it.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: I always say that you might think that the people think that uh other people don't spend us fleeing like war and become become a refugee.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Or do they deserve to be a refugee or asylum-seeking people because they flee the the visible war.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: So as women the wars always many women in this world, yeah, the war the war always happening within them.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: And they need to fight every single people in this uh society, the government, the rules, the religion, everything, every second of their life, from the moment they open their eyes till the moment that they go to sleep and then in their dreams.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, as a person that was born and brought up here, yeah, it's horrifying to hear that there are women in countries who don't have that kind of liberty that we've enjoyed by default, and if you you look at Iran and my country and my family, that they were like really like uh uh they are more uh forward thinkers, but yeah, and they are more modernized than the modern family.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can imagine, yeah, exactly.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because your experience could have been much more harsh, yeah.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, which I saw in my like my dad's side and my mom's side apparently, or my friends, that's how it felt.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I was so lucky, me and my sister, because my dad talked about women's uh rights.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_03: My dad, because when we were getting married, my dad, one of his uh conditions because in Iran, when you want to get married, the the boy's family comes to your house and asks for your hand.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hand okay, and then there is a negotiation, like a contract.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh so it's a like a conversation how much money you give for my daughter because they make it like a dowry is love, you need to like put something down and write it down that if the woman decided that they want to get divorced, yeah, or anytime in the marriage they can actually ask for it.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_04: And then at the same time who can ask for it, the woman, the woman, okay.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: So they call it me.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, I think I don't know where it is coming from, and in different, I think, countries or different it's like a down payment for a wife, then.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's not uh like this, but I see like this as well.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it is technically being uh put down that when a woman gets divorced, at least they have something.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I see, I see.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or if the life gets difficult and the man just not not it's not good, but they can't ask for that money if during marriage uh so it's a bit different to a dowry, yeah.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: I knew we are not in the same house.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, we are coming a different way, but it's beautiful, it is beautiful, and it is getting to the end, actually.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, we accidentally found our way back, uh but uh like men using this as a way to control what I see from women, yeah, especially when women want to get uh divorced, yeah.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because in my country, women can't get divorced and it's not easy for women to get divorced, right?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're a woman with a kid to the age of seven, your baby, or your kid cannot play with you after that, it goes automatically to the dad, right?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Or dad's family, even if the if the dad is deceased, the the uncle is your uh guardian, you know, your mom.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: So this is like a very big battle.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you need to actually prove that your husband is cheating on you, yeah.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like you need to cut him with two other men, like with two other men as witnesses, wow, that they believe you.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_03: If there are women that are witnesses, yeah, they're witnesses like one man.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the that's the currency.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if your husband uh wants you and don't want you to uh go from abroad or a study or board, then you can stop it.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna stop it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, easily.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_04: That's crazy.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we can get a passport without the permission of our husbands.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_03: My dad's condition was this.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want that much of that meh of relevancy, but I want you to actually sign a contract saying that my daughter has a right to work, has a right to study, yeah, has a right to divorce, yeah, has a right to travel, and has a right to be a guardian uh uh of their kids.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it was what what my dad asked for.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know how much was my I absolutely have no idea.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know it wasn't that much, yeah.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe they didn't even ask for anything, it was just that.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I see, yeah.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I see.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm getting it now.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: So then the it's the daughter's family ask for the money as a sort of safety net.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's not being paid that moment.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: It is if the woman is getting divorced.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_05: Or yeah.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: So some men use this they say, okay, you can divorce.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm not going to give you this, but I let you to lose.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or oh god.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you want your kid, uh don't get your some some men.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_03: Goodness me.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you can't.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is because of that.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: My dad put that.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_03: So my dad was uh like uh I actually have some of these thoughts and some of these views because of my mom and dad and my family, how respectful they were towards other people, and towards their children, towards their children.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: They gave you a chance, right?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they did their best, they did their best.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: I know I I blame them before, like when I was little, uh like not little, when I was younger.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: I blamed Emirat for everything because I had a very difficult life growing up.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, because I couldn't understand why all of these rules should be in place.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you want to sit here, yeah.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but I think now I understand.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: And because I was just like, I remember like I had a boyfriend, for example.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: The boyfriend in my country is like you just talk to a boy not having any other relationship with us, but it's a boyfriend thing.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, see, yeah, is that yours?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_04: My bottle again, yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I had this boyfriend that I was speaking over the phone, and it was like, who's calling you?
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's for example, Sarah.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, do you know how many times I was caught?
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: How many times I was caught and I was being like imprisoned at home.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_04: Imprisoned.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I couldn't go out uh from home unless somebody was chaperoneing me.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I couldn't actually a rebellious child.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: I was, I couldn't like answer the phone.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember my mom actually got a lock for the phone.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_03: Did she?
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like there was like these lockers you could get for the phone, and it could lock the zero, yeah.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: So you couldn't start the call.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: So before that, for the like internal calling, yeah, you didn't need zero, but for calling the mobile phone, yeah, you needed the zero, yeah.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_04: So my mom was locking the zero and leaving the house, and like it wasn't the old old style phones where you had to go around and wait for it to come back and go around.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Then when my mom was leaving the house, so I started searching for that.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I found a key, and then she she realized I found it.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I think she was taking it with herself, and then I learned something else.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: I was laying down on the knees of that box using the pink.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: So nobody could have stopped me because I couldn't understand.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking, no, I'm not going to make sense, yeah.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to give up.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why do you do this to me?
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I wasn't a very easy child.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: But I think you're right though, when you kind of grow consciousness of these rules that you have to question it, don't you?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_04: To satisfy yourself that it makes sense to be able to follow.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it is sad because like my partner a few years a few days ago was showing me her A-level projects.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it was amazing.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was art project, it was like photography, yeah, and the way that she was looking at things and how much she actually put effort and everything in doing that A-level.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_03: They could go out with the friends and everything.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I felt really sad.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Did you?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: And jealous.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: You're grieving a life that you couldn't have.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think I can cry now as well.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_03: Not just for myself, but for all of the young people in or at least the ones that they grow in our generation, because Eron is so different now.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: But we didn't have time to think about anything else.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: We were just thinking, okay, this is my uh this is being said that you can't do it.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_03: Why I can't do it, so I'm going to do it.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: So all of your life, you are just trying to find ways to do what you don't supposed to do.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of focusing on some of the things that could actually help you or or make you happy and move forward.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, this is it.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like now I am just discovering many, many things I love or like to do.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think since I moved here, I changed a lot.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't do public speaking.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I was doing my master's degree.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember that I couldn't even uh go and do my presentation in front of eight people.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: Eight people.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I came here and I started to do public speaking from the first year that I moved here with my like a very low level of English.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: And now I do public speaking, I do interviews, I do podcasts, and I just remember it's my second podcast actually.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have I have one episode with the Iranian podcast.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, cool.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was about migration and uh refugees.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh, and I I run workshops and all of this.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I never ever in my life could dream of this.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I couldn't even dream.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't know what uh what are the possibilities for me?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I was 30 years old, I just turned 30, so you know that how big people here celebrate.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: 30, 40, whatever.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I was in my in-laws house.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we were living there.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: My ex-husband was in front of his like uh computer studying because he needed to try so hard because he was Kurdish as well, right?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_03: And they discriminated against a lot, so he needed to actually try so much more than other people.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: But nobody remembered my birthday.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god, even my mom and dad didn't call me.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I didn't have a job, I was living in my in-laws, I was married, but I finished my study.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_04: And were you in this country?
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when I I came here when I was 32.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: 32, sorry, yeah, you said that before.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: I turned 33 the month after I moved here.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: And now I am 40.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember like nobody remembered, and my ex-husband is five days younger than me.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he should know.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so your hand, let me hold it.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's okay.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then I remember it became at 12, 12 at night, and I looked at him and said, Do you actually love me?
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just like, Oh, you don't have anything to do, and are you just thinking about this or exactly?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then I started crying and saying this was my birthday, and then he realized.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he said, Oh, I'm so sorry, I was so busy.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I remember at night when I was going to sleep, I cried a lot.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, is that going to be my life?
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, forever.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Life like this.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_03: But it was like I didn't have any other choice.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it was so like I'm 30.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm a smart.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I'm a smart.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_03: I finished my bachelor's degree in material engineering.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm an engineer.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_03: I did accountancy.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I can't do anything.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_03: When you go to work, the workplace is like that.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're not pleasant.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then you can't.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want life like this.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I couldn't even dream of what life can be.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because I couldn't see any opportunities there.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: And look at you now.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I sometimes I don't I don't pinch yourself for a bit.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: I remember like two, three days ago, accidentally I could get access to my Instagram that I had it from Iran.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_03: So different.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I had it till like 2020, and then for some reason I closed it, and then I couldn't get back to it, access it.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I accessed it.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: I started reading the messages that I had and the way that I was responding to people.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_03: How difficult it was for me to say no.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: How difficult it was for me to actually put myself first.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_03: I still don't put myself first as much.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I can say no.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: And how much people like could go all over me.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the way that I was seeing things or thinking and everything.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: I am me, but I am not me anymore.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a different version of you, isn't it?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like a traditional wife.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't even imagine.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I should do this, but in the at the same time, something within me saying it's not right.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I had this complex contrary?
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, contradiction.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: Feeling that okay, why I should do this?
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or but to be honest, my ex-husband was good in these things.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember because of the influence of some other people, one day he told me why you don't uh iron my shirt and said, You are most more capable to do that.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: Iron your shirt.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: I hate ironing.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you know I hate it.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't need me to iron your shirt.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: Go and iron your own shirt.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was traditional, but I wasn't traditional, traditional, but my ex-husband wasn't.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think he was struggling with his own thing as well.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: He wanted me to be traditional, but at the same time, he wanted me to go and work and be modern and be a very good housewife and garnish all of the food and everything.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: So he he couldn't decide either.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it wasn't his fault either.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_04: No, well, you're both victims of the society you were in to this extent.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_03: But now I think, yeah, I think I struggled.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's probably one of these things, isn't it, that's gonna keep coming back um throughout the course of your life where you you catch yourself and then have to have a moment to reset and think about it.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it never stops, I think.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um for all human beings, all of the challenges and everything is always there.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: It is getting easier.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: I can navigate some of the things easier because I teach uh like group of refugees at the moment, and it's about employability.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I use my own experience to tell them why it is important for them to be in this class.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I know many things, like being in that uh class and teaching, I realize I know many things that I didn't know, and it caused me so much problems and uh all of this.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_04: And helping other people is a way of healing as well, isn't it?
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that um just going back to what I was saying before, you kind of um unlearning all the time.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_04: So you're always gonna get to a point where something triggers you, even if it's been years and years and years.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_04: You'll have that trigger and you'll think, oh my god, reset, go back, think about how far I've come.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think unlearning things, it is the most difficult thing.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you know you want to unlearn that, but you grow up with this, and this actually embedded in you.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that it is difficult.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's like addiction, I think.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like you relapse and you again you go back and it is not easy, it's just like being uh shedding your your skin, shedding your identity somehow.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so and I remember we were talking about identity.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and when I came here, the identity became really important because I wasn't just a woman here.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was uh Mina.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I was Mina from global majority.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not white.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and then racism, discrimination, sexism, uh, which sexism wasn't as much as was in my country, or because it wasn't as much, I I didn't see it.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: But like racism, discrimination, or looking at you like you're an idiot because you can't speak the language very well.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think sometimes I felt like they think like the just the sky opened and I just drop down.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Drop down here.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_03: There wasn't a journey before.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't have friends, I didn't have a family, I didn't have I wasn't going to the cafes, I didn't study, I I I I am not intelligent enough just because I can't speak the language as well as they want me to.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_03: I remember like when I was working in Sainsbury's.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I had this problem.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_03: And people were looking at me like, oh, do you know how to do this?
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you shouldn't do it like this.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I want to emphasize on this.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_03: I have ADHD, and my ADHD triggered the most when I moved here.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Really, wow.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_03: The change.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_03: The change, and the fact that I was responsible for many, many things, and so overwhelming.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_03: The trauma that it caused.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and also like when you have ADHD, like you need to organize your thoughts.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_03: You need to, you can't focus.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, so I needed to uh have a space to actually do my own thing instead of people go all over me.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have that, they didn't know that.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I wanted them to show me what they do, and then I would have done it.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but for them, it's it was just no, you should know that, right?
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: Or the first time you do it, you should do it well.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_03: You can't do that, it's you're hard learning.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember like I had a lot of problems uh with my influence, like three years.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_04: Before your diagnosis, though, right?
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_03: I just got diagnosed September last year.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh when I was 39.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, it's a long process, eh?
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and two years ago, or three years ago, I became aware that I might have ADHD.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I was suspicious about having autism, which I still suspicious about that, but I think my ADHD thing caused a lot of problems for me here.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_04: And uh how have you felt since your diagnosis?
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's a very mixed emotion.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I got diagnosed two days after I started university.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_03: And because I was discriminated a lot, or being told that I am not good enough at workplaces, or they expected me to do my job in a way that they want to.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, obviously.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you didn't fit the mold.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, and it caused me so distress.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_03: I just I think somehow grieving for what I lost in the last 39 years.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like even back home, my mom was saying to me, you jump from one thing to another thing.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Everything was interesting for me, it still is.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And if you look at my career now and what I do, I am everywhere.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because everything is interesting, and in my head, everything is connected to each other.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I was starting something, living it, and starting something there.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a dopamine level that makes you excited to do things.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so you do that, and that it crushes, yeah.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's not interesting anymore.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Hello?
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then you jump to another thing to actually feel that dopamine and that energy.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I was always told that I am always late.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a last minute person.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had exams and I I was uh study for it like the last night.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Do 200 pages in 10 hours.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I always had a good uh results, results, and I was the top student.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, so it worked for you because I learned in the class.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was learning in the class, yeah.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: So and then I was like so clumsy and my dad was calling me like an injured donkey.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's something that people say in my country, yeah, and then coming here and it struggles and everything, like, oh my god, journey, or some of like very dangerous behaviors that I had back home, like maybe sleeping with some people that I shouldn't have.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and it's really harmful, isn't it?
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_03: It is harmful, it can be really harmful, and it is because of ADHD because you feel like you have uh RSD.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: The rejection sensitivity sensitivity.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you do some of the things to actually say, Oh, I I am good, people love me, so okay, I give you this, yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_03: So you love me.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_03: You must do and because of all of those restrictions for women, yeah, it is really dangerous.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_04: So actually, you know, your path could have been very different given all the things that you've been through, but you've made very different choices to have a stability, yeah.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_04: To create that stability for yourself and to give yourself that chance for a different life experience.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think uh it was difficult for me to uh actually forgive myself.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Forgive yourself of what?
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_03: I always felt guilty.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, when you grow up with this uh culture, or when people tell you if you slip it somewhere, you are yeah, you're labeled, you are that's S word.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Or if you don't have a good uh education, or you don't have a good job, you are this or that.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_03: As women, if you put like makeup on, if you have a boyfriend, if you you are different from what so you feel guilty.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_03: I felt so guilty all of my life for not being a good Muslim and not praying, for like scared of the hell, going to the hell, to hell, and uh feeling guilty that I lied to my parents and I had a boyfriend, or I lied to my parents, and instead of going to a meeting or going to do something else, I went and met up with my friends in another city, or uh all of this, like lying.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want to lie to your parents, but at the same time, like what you wanted the freedom.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_03: What is another option?
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I want to feel that freedom, and you don't let me.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: You if if you were my friend and you would have let me, and you could control all of the things so much better, and I wouldn't have done some of the things I've done.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't blame them, it is the best way that they need to be able to do that.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_03: They were trying to protect you, exactly.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and but I felt guilty for a long, long, long time.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like every single day of my life was like still some sometimes I feel guilty.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_03: How do you deal with that?
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think I changed a lot.
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like two years two years before I moved here, I started following women that they moved here and they were like alone.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And interestingly, I ended up in a feminist side of the Instagram.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I learned many things from those women.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_03: They were Iranian women living in the UK or like Norway or other places.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I learned a lot from them that why it's not like why you shouldn't feel guilty or whatever.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I believe that now that's yeah, feeling guilty is a normal thing when you live in those societies and you don't know that's what else is why it's it's not something that you feel guilty.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I understand when you leave in that country, it's not safe, it's not easy to not be like that.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah but about like being punished by God, right?
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think age 18, um my aunt gave me this book because like you grow up as a woman, you your purpose is to just get ready for a husband and kids and life.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_03: But in my family, there was education as well, and in many other families, like you should have education, and if there is a chance, find a job, work, if not, your husband provides for you.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_03: It puts so much pressure on you and the man as well, but women mainly, yeah.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_03: So till the age of 18, I thought, yeah, this is the life.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but my aunts gave me this book uh from Anthony Robbins.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_03: There's like a five series of books.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was one of his first books.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I read that and I thought, oh, yeah, life can be different.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's something else out there.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think another reason that I am who I am now is actually reading those books and then reading more and more and more and more.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_03: So and I thought, oh, that is interesting.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And after that, I read a book from Florence Escovelshine.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what is the English name of that book, okay.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_03: But she was a like a religious person.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And what was it called?
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so the name her name is Florence Escovalshin, but I think he she wrote this uh around 1940s or something.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_03: Let me search it.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_03: But it was mainly about God and about uh how like God is nice, and how if you think that you're going to be a widow or you always have grave, it happens.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna attract the law of attraction.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_03: The game of life.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_04: The game of life, okay.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so it was this that I read it.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_03: This is a lovely day, it's beautiful, and also and she was born 1871.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think the way that she was talking about God I thought, yeah, it makes more sense.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_03: So the God that actually created us would have loved us, yeah, wouldn't punish us.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_03: So what is the difference between God and somebody else?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_03: And she actually like that book was really good.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_03: That was life-changing.
• 1:23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, somehow to build my relationship and the my not being scared of God.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, building it in you on your terms.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Knowing that.
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then I started reading books from Vin Dyer.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_03: Vane Dyer.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he was amazing, he passed away.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_03: One of my dreams was to meet him.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I learned a lot from him.
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it actually helped me with having different ways of looking at the world and look at the the people and actually broaden my view of life and people.
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I think in people's life, there are a lot of uh things that can happen that actually change the course of your life.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Even if it's uh just like turning, like it's a hard moment for you.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_03: It might take you years and years to get to that point, but it's a sort of your journey.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_03: So all of this helped me to uh learn things a little bit easier, yeah.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_03: But it doesn't mean that it it was it was easy.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, and it's not I I still have things that I need to unlearn.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and sometimes when because it is now some of the things really embedded in me after seven years.
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I actually forget that some people are still having this, especially in my work with uh refugees and so on-seeking people, especially with women.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's what is in my head, I forgot that like I've been working on this for seven years.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_03: I had resources, I had privilege to be able to read books, I had privilege to meet some people, I had privilege to have that family that I had.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And some of these women have don't have that privilege, and it might take them years and years to actually get there, or a person.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I think about domestic abuse, I am really like more conscious because I know when uh a person is on their domestic abuse and they are a victim of domestic abuse, it's not easy for them to leave, and there are many, many, many things that you need to consider, and you can't ask them to straight away leave.
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_03: It takes them years and years, yeah.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, about that, I think I lost my oh your tissues, but that's fine, yeah.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I am so conscious about that, but I think especially last uh seven weeks, taught me a lot uh and reminded me many things.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Seven years, yeah.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, uh like seven weeks.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, seven weeks, yeah.
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_03: So the the reason I'm saying seven weeks, I've been working with a group of refugees.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I had first cohort and I am doing with the second cohort.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_03: I work with the WP, yeah, but through other organizations and so like a fixed air contract, yeah.
• 1:26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm teaching employability.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_03: So as I said, sometimes I forget and it is kind of like ignorance for me, but I didn't think I am like that uh till I started doing that.
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_03: We're always learning, aren't we?
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, and I think yeah, here you go.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, don't worry.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Let me do it.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think like last seven weeks that I've been teaching, like I I did uh teach a group of eight for four weeks, and I'm doing a group of eight in another part of Cobria.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember like I was telling them, oh, use your Google Translate to translate this.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then I realized some of I think two of my learners, yeah, they were even illiterate in their own language.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see, okay.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_03: And me assuming that you can put it in Google Translate and read.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_03: You had that privilege.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_03: I had that privilege, I uh but my grandma didn't.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when I um I loved my grandma so much.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh she passed away when I was 18.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember my thoughts when I was like seven years old I'm going to teach my grandma how to write.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_03: But he was she was so intelligent.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like she had this uh phone book and she had lines for ev every single person.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_03: So she couldn't read.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_03: But based on the lines, she could say she created her own language.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I realized one of these women and one of these men don't have that.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, I felt so horrible.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_04: So in the seven weeks then working with these people, it's actually been really eye-opening.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's been all things that I might have forgotten.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_03: So then I remember like you need to actually consider these things.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Or they got laptops, and I've I forgot, or I didn't realize that some people never even turned on a laptop or a computer.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we take it for granted.
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I was crying every single day and I still do.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's oh my god.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_03: But at the same time, is there enough like help after?
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any like adult uh uh like classes for illiterate people?
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I talked to my uh partner and she said like to be honest, I don't know because even people uh age of 80 or something they have uh education.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_03: So then I'm thinking like if me that coming from a country like that and I had a grandma that was innocent, I forget about that and being kind of ignorant ignorant.
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um how about like the local authorities?
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and it needs to be raised so and many many other things that I've seen, like supporting some women that have been through domestic abuse or mental health.
• 1:30:02
  SPEAKER_03: There is nothing, especially for women that actually English is not their first language and the cultural thing, like there are support, but it's not um like a tailored uh specifically for this type.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_03: So since then I've been like I can't even sleep, I'm just thinking about the ways that I can do something, yeah.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so or liaising with other charities that are already working and how we can actually do something or tackle this.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:30:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I think as a refugee for like a few years I was just a refugee.
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a lot of like press uh like really not release, but it's just like uh all of the I was there, I was there as a successful refugee on asylum seek care, which I didn't like it because what defines success.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was lucky and privileged to you see that more and more.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I was single, yeah.
• 1:31:13
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have all of those strict beliefs.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_03: I already were in my journey, and I was lucky to meet some amazing people via one amazing person, like Pam Aland from like uh Pink, tribe in North Cumbria.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_03: She actually introduced me to the Coffee Morning International Women's Coffee Morning, and from there I met everyone.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Sam, I met Sam at Pink, which I was recruited by Pam, and she allowed me to actually follow what I wanted.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it was Women's Panel Project that me and Sam did together.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it was based on my live experience.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_03: So it was her that helped me and gave me this opportunity to do that.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I am always thankful for that.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I had privilege to see these people, to meet these people, to build that net for three years.
• 1:32:18
  SPEAKER_03: My life wasn't good, but then I started meeting amazing people.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I am privileged.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I was just a refugee.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then I thought I'm not just a refugee.
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be talking because I have uh many passions.
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_03: I've worked with women because of that.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just other community and other things, and I'm doing work with like women.
• 1:32:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's going back to being labeled and the intersection.
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, it is intersectionality that we've got.
• 1:32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_04: All those themes.
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so and from there, actually, I started to think I'm not just a refugee.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want everywhere that I go.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, here's Mina the refugee.
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_03: Mina the refugee, which I have no problem with that.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_03: I am privileged to be able to be a refugee and get the right to remain here.
• 1:33:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I waited three years to get that.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_03: But there's more in us if people see us just a refugee, not see us as a person.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_03: And all the things that you bring with you.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it's not just me, all of the refugees and people that they immigrants, or the people that are from LGBT community, or the people that are from global majority, people with disabilities, all of this.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_03: If people can see you as a human being with all of other things, then you are not just a refugee.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, exactly.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I stopped, and I I know I did a lot of volunteering that the asylum hotels actually opened.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:33:57
  SPEAKER_03: But then at one point I realized that I'm not being seen as a part of uh community by the organizations that I actually I volunteer with.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I didn't mean to shove your hands.
• 1:34:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, that's okay.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was just like, wait a minute.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_03: So now I am just uh like a person that you can take advantages of.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because I wasn't getting paid, and I heard by one of the people that was working with one of these uh places telling me I worked with um this group of people, another person worked with this group of people, like the African people that came from Africa.
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_03: I worked with those people that came from like some part of the Middle East, and you've worked with Iranian people.
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I was uh what I was a engagement officer, uh refugee engagement officer at Kala College.
• 1:35:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was the first person that was recruited for that role.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_03: So and I was thinking, what?
• 1:35:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not getting paid, yeah, and also even if I was getting paid, it's not a ethical way of working.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's like I am working in Kala College as a refugee engagement officer, but I'm not going to help anyone apart from Iranian people because I am an Iranian.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's not okay.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_03: When you have a job or role as an engagement officer, as a like a refugee and asylum seeking.
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_04: You're not discriminating against who you are.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, you need to help everyone, even though there are other people to help.
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you need to do your job.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_03: And putting me responsible for these people, the person that doesn't get paid and I'm not available all the time, it's not about getting paid as money.
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not recruited to do this job.
• 1:36:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm a refugee myself.
• 1:36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Many things can trigger me.
• 1:36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_03: And you put me there.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_04: Where's your safeguarding?
• 1:36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Where's my safeguarding?
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_03: And it ended, I ended up to have a mental breakdown.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
• 1:36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh.
• 1:36:23
  SPEAKER_03: But then I set up a like a ceremony for Persian New Year.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_03: None of these people helped me.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_03: I ended up to do it myself with uh Church of Scotland.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next year I was told that oh, there's a uh Persian New Year.
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_03: It was the same day.
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think this year it was.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see.
• 1:36:48
  SPEAKER_03: The same day somebody said, Oh, it's a Persian New Year.
• 1:36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to come?
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_03: I said, It's today.
• 1:36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:36:55
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, like, oh, it was last minute.
• 1:36:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was thinking I haven't even been seen as a refugee myself that need the support, need the community.
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_03: The fact that I'm working with people, it doesn't mean I am not part of the community.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I am working with women, but I'm not a woman.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying.
• 1:37:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's quite extractive, actually, isn't it?
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I actually don't work closely with those organizations anymore.
• 1:37:29
  SPEAKER_03: But I still work with them as a partnership, or like I work with refugees, but in a different level and different way.
• 1:37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:37:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then connect people with those things, but not.
• 1:37:44
  SPEAKER_03: So from there I was thinking, I'm not just a refugee, I want to change this narrative.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I completely stopped like being that door in that scene.
• 1:37:54
  SPEAKER_03: I stepped down from uh being a chair of Collier City of Sanctuary.
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I stopped working with refugees as much.
• 1:38:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I knew people, people knew me, they would have called me and seen Mina, can you help me?
• 1:38:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I knew them, but I I didn't I didn't work that much closely.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I worked actually and I did like a refugee week thing two years ago, and it was like a start of me working with refugees but in a different capacity.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was an artist, like lead artist for the for that.
• 1:38:29
  SPEAKER_03: You were an artist.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, your art is beautiful.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think from there, like I remember Lindsay said to me that do you want to do this?
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because Council asked us to do this.
• 1:38:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's Lindsay at Tully House.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she's amazing.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_03: I am so lucky and privileged to have her in my uh friendship group.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_03: So like I got this email and they said they want someone to host this and like an artist to actually facilitate this.
• 1:39:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, why don't you ask Mina?
• 1:39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:39:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Lindsay actually told them that Mina is not just a refugee, she can do the art as well.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_03: And this is advocacy that advocates that I have, the allies that I have, the people that are always pushing for change as well.
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_03: I am not alone.
• 1:39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:39:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like many, many things that I've done, or many people that I've seen.
• 1:39:27
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I owe this to people and mainly amazing women around me.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and you.
• 1:39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, but I think sometimes we need help.
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, of course.
• 1:39:39
  SPEAKER_04: And but I think we also need to stop and thank ourselves.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because we're doing it every day.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes it's difficult, especially now.
• 1:39:48
  SPEAKER_03: I feel I I'm not doing enough.
• 1:39:51
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I don't know what else I need to do.
• 1:39:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:39:55
  SPEAKER_04: So if you could summarize your journey so far in three words, what would they be?
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think journey.
• 1:40:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:40:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because it it hasn't finished yet.
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:40:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but I think the growth I feel like I have been like changing a lot in a good way, I think.
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, from what you said before, you're you, but you're totally different now.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know myself that much.
• 1:40:55
  SPEAKER_03: But as a like a feelings, uh as a person, like the the love that I have and like kindness or like how I want to help people, I'm still the same person.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_03: But I am different, I have a different mindset and community.
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think for me, community is so important.
• 1:41:12
  SPEAKER_03: I agree, and community is not just just one community, you can have multiple communities and you can get that sense of belonging, and yeah, that's and I think it's important to have multiple communities because there's so many different parts of us.
• 1:41:28
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, because of that intersectional identity that we have, we can actually fulfill that part of us in different places, and uh for me what is so standing up is having the community of women.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like I never had that many women in my life to be my friends.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_03: I never had friends that they were women, yeah.
• 1:41:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's just because of the country I come from, or maybe my values were different, or the way that I was looking at the life, or whatever it was.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_03: I remember my friend actually made me to go and buy high heels to be more feminine.
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 1:42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it was so expensive, and I just wore it once and I left it in Iran and I can be here.
• 1:42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Never to wear heels again.
• 1:42:18
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, so these kind of things, and I am so happy that my friends mainly are women.
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:42:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I learn a lot from them, and also like it's so empowering, and us connecting each other.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a web.
• 1:42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:42:39
  SPEAKER_03: And do the best work that we can do for women and for the people in the society or in our community is a most amazing and beautiful thing.
• 1:42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:42:48
  SPEAKER_03: So because of that, the community is so important for me.
• 1:42:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:42:52
  SPEAKER_03: And journey.
• 1:42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I am still in my journey.
• 1:42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Every single day you learn something new, like seven weeks ago.
• 1:42:59
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't know that.
• 1:43:00
  SPEAKER_03: I still need to learn.
• 1:43:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I always know that I can learn more.
• 1:43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:43:06
  SPEAKER_03: But some of the things you don't even think about it.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:43:09
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't even come to your head.
• 1:43:11
  SPEAKER_04: But it's so good to sort of tune into the fact that, oh my goodness, I have this privilege and I didn't even recognize it as a privilege.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Just being open and honest with yourself and willingness to actually understand it and do something about it, I think it's so important.
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:43:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it's a journey still.
• 1:43:34
  SPEAKER_03: I need to learn a lot and learn more.
• 1:43:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:43:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and I'm excited for it.
• 1:43:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, I am so excited to see how it would be next year or the year after.
• 1:43:47
  SPEAKER_04: Oh.
• 1:43:48
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Mina, I am pleased after four years.
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_04: We finally met up.
• 1:43:53
  SPEAKER_04: We finally got our coffee.
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_04: Go.
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_04: We haven't had the coffee yet, but we haven't, yeah.
• 1:43:58
  SPEAKER_03: But we finally had a lovely walk and talk.
• 1:44:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was so nice to talk to you.
• 1:44:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it was so nice to you four years ago.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, I know, right?
• 1:44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we should meet up.
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:10
  SPEAKER_03: Four years later.
• 1:44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Not this weekend.
• 1:44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Not this weekend.
• 1:44:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, life is not it's not linear, is it?
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's busy.
• 1:44:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I know you had your own thing going through, and I have my own thing.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad that I think it was the right time now.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was the right time, yeah.
• 1:44:28
  SPEAKER_03: Everything happens when it's mental.
• 1:44:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's the right time for the podcast.
• 1:44:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it didn't exist for you, exactly.
• 1:44:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's the right time for both of us to meet up as well.
• 1:44:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think we know each other in different like different settings.
• 1:44:46
  SPEAKER_04: Settings as well.
• 1:44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44:47
  SPEAKER_03: And we have more understanding of each other.
• 1:44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44:51
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, definitely, we are friends and we are here.
• 1:44:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so privileged to have to be here.
• 1:44:57
  SPEAKER_01: I feel the same, I feel the same.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:45:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're one of the women that I was talking about.
• 1:45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so nice, thank you.
• 1:45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, well, that's a wrap.
• 1:45:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's a rubber.
• 1:45:07
  SPEAKER_03: How many hours?
• 1:45:12
  SPEAKER_04: That was my walk with the lovely Mina Binneseid.
• 1:45:16
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so glad we finally managed to have this conversation, Mina.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_04: There are a couple of things that have really stayed with me.
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_04: The first is how easily we can see someone through one part of their experience and forget about everything else that makes them who they are.
• 1:45:38
  SPEAKER_04: It made me question who I view through labels I've put upon them as opposed to the full spectrum of who they are.
• 1:45:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the second is the importance of the people who recognize our potential sometimes before we recognize it ourselves.
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_04: I loved hearing Mina talk about the women who've encouraged her, supported her, and opened doors.
• 1:46:11
  SPEAKER_04: And her reflections on learning and unlearning is a really good prod to us all that none of us are the finished product.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_04: We're all just still figuring things out.
• 1:46:27
  SPEAKER_04: So here's something to think about on your next walk or while you're journaling or while you're doing the dishes.
• 1:46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Are there labels you've outgrown that still carry around?
• 1:46:44
  SPEAKER_04: Who helped you recognise something in yourself?
• 1:46:49
  SPEAKER_04: And is there someone you could open a door for?
• 1:46:56
  SPEAKER_04: A huge thank you to Mina for sharing your story so generously.
• 1:47:04
  SPEAKER_04: If you've enjoyed this conversation, please share it, leave a review, and please follow the podcast.
• 1:47:12
  SPEAKER_04: It really does make a difference to independent creators like myself.
• 1:47:17
  SPEAKER_04: And thank you to our independent music partner, Celestian, and also Season 4 guest coming soon, Neil Stevenson, for helping bring the season to life.
• 1:47:30
  SPEAKER_04: Links are in my website.
• 1:47:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was gonna say bio, but links are in my website.
• 1:47:37
  SPEAKER_04: Until next time, keep being curious about the people around you.
• 1:47:43
  SPEAKER_04: Because your story might be exactly what someone needs to hear today!