Latest / She's On The Money / Hannah Ferguson on Workplace Equality, Ethics & OnlyFans

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Hannah Ferguson on Workplace Equality, Ethics & OnlyFans · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello.
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Speaker 2: My name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yr the
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Speaker 2: Order Kerney Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
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Speaker 2: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
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Speaker 2: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
0:14
Speaker 2: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country. Acknowledging
0:18
Speaker 2: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through.
0:23
Speaker 2: As this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
0:27
Speaker 2: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
0:31
Speaker 2: and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:58
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
1:00
Speaker 4: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. My name is Jessica Ricky
1:04
Speaker 4: and today, of course, as always, I'm joined by beck
1:07
Speaker 4: Sayed because it is Friday and we're here to celebrate
1:10
Speaker 4: you guys, the incredible She's on the Money community. Today,
1:13
Speaker 4: I'm going to be sharing some of my favorite money ins.
1:15
Speaker 4: Becky's going to share some wonderful broke tips, and then
1:18
Speaker 4: we'll be helping to answer a juicy money dilemma. This week,
1:21
Speaker 4: it's all about what to do in a workplace that
1:23
Speaker 4: promotes men over women hate. And then we're also going
1:27
Speaker 4: to unpack something you slit into our DMS about and
1:29
Speaker 4: this week we're chatting about what to do when you
1:31
Speaker 4: discover your sister has and only fans.
1:34
Speaker 5: Okay, that's I'm really excited for those ones. I have
1:37
Speaker 5: a lot of opinions already, but I'm going to hush, hush,
1:40
Speaker 5: and today, Jess, you might notice we do have a
1:41
Speaker 5: special guest in studio. Hannah Ferguson is the founder and
1:45
Speaker 5: chief executive officer of Cheek Media. Co Welcome Hannah, tell
1:49
Speaker 5: us a little bit about cheek Media.
1:51
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me both of you.
1:53
Speaker 6: I am so excited to be here. I feel like
1:55
Speaker 6: I was just saying to you before. Both of you
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Speaker 6: are on my screen every day I'm watching the reels.
1:59
Speaker 1: I'm addicted to that. When I was like so excited.
2:01
Speaker 6: To be part of a real potentially to be in
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Speaker 6: the presence of the reels on my Instagram feed.
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Speaker 1: Ah, but it's so nice.
2:09
Speaker 6: But Cheek Media is essentially a progressive feminist media platform
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Speaker 6: that commentates on all of the big issues in politics, media,
2:17
Speaker 6: and also to things like sex and relationships. Just more
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Speaker 6: social and cultural commentary. I also have a podcast, which
2:23
Speaker 6: is a news and pop culture podcast called Big Smalltalk,
2:25
Speaker 6: which I co host with my co founder Sarah, and
2:28
Speaker 6: then I also have a book called bite Back. So
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Speaker 6: that's kind of like how cheek the umbrella or works.
2:32
Speaker 6: I have different few things going on once, and the
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Speaker 6: instagram is cheek media dot Co. So it's really just
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Speaker 6: like feminist, left wing opinion on the current news.
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Speaker 4: Of the day. It's one of my favorite Instagram accounts.
2:42
Speaker 4: Like these guys do such a great job of keeping
2:44
Speaker 4: up with current stuff but also having a really I
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Speaker 4: think relevant, still balanced take because there are a lot
2:50
Speaker 4: of things. I think we'll speaking for everyone on our team.
2:52
Speaker 4: Really we're all very much devoutly feminists, I suppose you
2:55
Speaker 4: could say, and you know, I think sometimes when you
2:58
Speaker 4: are that way, it can be difficult to report on
3:01
Speaker 4: things in a way that isn't biased. And I feel
3:02
Speaker 4: like you do a really good job sometimes of those
3:05
Speaker 4: tougher conversations, all those tougher perspectives, and you know, sharing
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Speaker 4: a really fair and measured perspective.
3:10
Speaker 1: Thank you.
3:11
Speaker 6: That means a lot because it is stressful, and we
3:13
Speaker 6: know what social media is like, it's reactionary and it
3:15
Speaker 6: can be quite inflammatory. So it's kind of hard to
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Speaker 6: know how to have the take and the opinion on
3:20
Speaker 6: things that are always unfolding in the news as well.
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Speaker 4: And always changing. And the internet is so hard. Everybody
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Speaker 4: has an opinion and you can't do anything without I
3:27
Speaker 4: feel like irritating someone these days, which is really challenging.
3:30
Speaker 4: But you do a wonderful job at navigating it. Before
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Speaker 4: we get into it, though, have you had a busy week?
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Speaker 6: Yes, I've just recorded my podcast this morning. I've actually
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Speaker 6: I'm writing my second book right now, so it's really
3:40
Speaker 6: tight deadline. There's lots happening. It's very exciting. I mean,
3:43
Speaker 6: no complaints for me. It's a privilege. But it's been
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Speaker 6: a big few weeks. So got Social netball on tonight,
3:48
Speaker 6: all the big hitters fun, you know, everything's important. So
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Speaker 6: though it's been a really big few weeks, but I'm
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Speaker 6: very happy.
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Speaker 1: I'm going, well, how about you both? Really good?
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Speaker 4: Can you give us the inside scoop on what the
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Speaker 4: book's about me a little insider info?
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Speaker 1: I actually haven't talked about it, but I can. I
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Speaker 1: think I can. It's your exclusive breaking in that career.
4:09
Speaker 4: I'm talking to you.
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Speaker 6: Basically, the second book is going to be more about
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Speaker 6: societal taboos and what we don't talk about as women,
4:17
Speaker 6: in the conversations that we should have been having at fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,
4:20
Speaker 6: and the things that we need to know in our
4:22
Speaker 6: twenties and thirties that were never spoken about. And so
4:24
Speaker 6: it's kind of like we do get a lot of
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Speaker 6: self help books, we do get a lot of sort
4:28
Speaker 6: of messaging through social media about what to do and
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Speaker 6: what not to do, but it never gets that gritty
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Speaker 6: underneath layer that we aren't talking about.
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Speaker 1: So it's me trying to have the conversations that we've
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Speaker 1: never had.
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Speaker 5: Well, that sounds amazing and I just feel like it's
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Speaker 5: so needed.
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Speaker 1: Thank you. I hope so completely agree, Bexster.
4:43
Speaker 4: How's your week been?
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Speaker 5: My week has been not bad. I don't want to
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Speaker 5: sound like a broken record, but just Hannah for context,
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Speaker 5: I recently was made redundant, so I've kind of not
4:53
Speaker 5: been I've kind of just been using this time to
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Speaker 5: as all, look for jobs as foremost try and find
5:00
Speaker 5: another stream of income, and then also just like live
5:04
Speaker 5: in life, you know, just doing all the things that
5:07
Speaker 5: I've surprisingly been like really busy and I was kind
5:10
Speaker 5: of worried about that. I was like, what do you
5:11
Speaker 5: know when you go on annual eving stuff and you're like,
5:13
Speaker 5: what do you actually meant to do? You know, you
5:15
Speaker 5: kind of wake up and you're like, what's what do
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Speaker 5: I do today? But you know, shockingly being quite busy
5:20
Speaker 5: and just like trying to take this time because I
5:22
Speaker 5: know that hopefully I'll find a job soon, so being social,
5:25
Speaker 5: doing all the things that I can't really do when
5:26
Speaker 5: I have a full time job.
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Speaker 7: So it's been it's been.
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Speaker 5: Really lovely and really wholesome, and yeah, I just I've
5:31
Speaker 5: really enjoyed this time, so maybe I don't want to
5:34
Speaker 5: go back.
5:35
Speaker 7: What about you?
5:36
Speaker 1: Good?
5:36
Speaker 4: Nothing crazy excited report. I feel like just plodding along.
5:39
Speaker 4: I've started going to pilates, so in my polarates Princess era, wow,
5:45
Speaker 4: trying to be healthier.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, and I feel like I have.
5:48
Speaker 4: I mean, we all have our own very unique relationship
5:50
Speaker 4: with what that looks like, and that can be really
5:52
Speaker 4: challenging in and of itself. But trying to just be like, okay,
5:54
Speaker 4: you know what, if I go once this week, like
5:56
Speaker 4: that's enough, and if I don't go at all, that
5:58
Speaker 4: is also okay, because I feel like I'm very inn
6:00
Speaker 4: or nothing mentality, and I go, I'm going to go
6:02
Speaker 4: every other day and I'm gonna get so fit, I'm
6:04
Speaker 4: gonna do this and that. And I really struggle with
6:05
Speaker 4: that because it's hard to commit to you, Like, we're
6:07
Speaker 4: so busy and you know, work is always crazy and
6:10
Speaker 4: socializing and I stide hustle, and sometimes it all just
6:13
Speaker 4: gets so much. And I feel like we were talking
6:15
Speaker 4: on an episode very recently about setting yourself up for
6:18
Speaker 4: successful failure with goals, and so I'm trying to just
6:20
Speaker 4: be kind to myself. Yeah, those sorts of things and
6:22
Speaker 4: be like, hey, like if you go once, that's awesome,
6:24
Speaker 4: and if you don't go old that's cool too.
6:27
Speaker 7: So working on that at the moment. I love that
6:29
Speaker 7: because you.
6:30
Speaker 5: Know when you like, you do set such a strict
6:31
Speaker 5: goal and you're like, I'm gonna go to the gym
6:33
Speaker 5: every single day, and then you don't do one day
6:35
Speaker 5: and then you feel like you've completely failed, so you
6:38
Speaker 5: just end up stopping for the week or for the
6:40
Speaker 5: month or whatever. So yeah, just be kind yourself and
6:43
Speaker 5: just let yourself go through the motions. Love that for you.
6:46
Speaker 5: Speaking of little wins. Jess, you have some money wins
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Speaker 5: from the community.
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Speaker 7: Absolutely, I do.
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Speaker 4: There's some goodies this week, starting off with a hilarious
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Speaker 4: but also great one from Nicole who said, money Win.
6:56
Speaker 4: I bought an eight pack of sausages and there were
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Speaker 4: nine in there. Oh that's I just feel like a
7:01
Speaker 4: little It's like the nuggets when you get an extra ruggets,
7:04
Speaker 4: such a little treat. Now I've got one from Maria
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Speaker 4: who said money Win. I've been collecting my bottles and
7:10
Speaker 4: cans for two weeks and you get ten cents of
7:12
Speaker 4: can back and it was free money. I got sixty
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Speaker 4: six dollars plus another ninety two dollars with stuff I
7:19
Speaker 4: collected from work, So she's made I'm trying to do
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Speaker 4: the math in my head really quickly out one hundred
7:23
Speaker 4: and fifty eight dollars, I think.
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Speaker 7: I think so.
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Speaker 4: I'm sure someone will tell me if that's not correct.
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Speaker 4: How don't see a bucks collecting bottles and cans And
7:30
Speaker 4: that's a lot of bottles and cans that are no
7:32
Speaker 4: longer out in the world, which is awesome. That's incredible,
7:34
Speaker 4: huge one. And then I've got a money win from
7:37
Speaker 4: Imagen who said this week, I finally hit my fifteen
7:40
Speaker 4: thousand dollars savings goal. Thanks to the She's and the
7:42
Speaker 4: money hack sheets, I've worked extra shifts every fortnight and
7:46
Speaker 4: I was able to hit the goal four pays early,
7:48
Speaker 4: which is huge. If you want to get those hacks,
7:50
Speaker 4: they're free on our website. It's like bingo but with money,
7:53
Speaker 4: and it's very fun if I love that. Next, I've
7:56
Speaker 4: got a money win from Tara and she said, if
7:58
Speaker 4: you're in New South Wales and you used toll, I
8:00
Speaker 4: recommend using the app and getting your rebate for either
8:03
Speaker 4: this year or last year. If you hit the threshold,
8:05
Speaker 4: they don't tell you automatically, so you have to go
8:07
Speaker 4: into the app and check. Both herself and her partner
8:10
Speaker 4: got a couple of hundred dollars back each. And you're
8:12
Speaker 4: in Sydney, aren't you, Hannah, Have you ever done that?
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Speaker 1: Yes?
8:14
Speaker 6: But I was going to say my win slash loss,
8:17
Speaker 6: because I had a bit of both, was that I
8:18
Speaker 6: got a parking ticket in Sydney because I've just moved
8:21
Speaker 6: to the city where it's like one hour parking and
8:24
Speaker 6: so like, I'm done with the tolls. The tolls aren't
8:26
Speaker 6: my nightmare, right And I always try to fight the
8:28
Speaker 6: admin fees.
8:28
Speaker 1: If I ever missed one, that's a big deal to me. Yeah.
8:31
Speaker 6: But with the parking ticket, my property was listed as
8:35
Speaker 6: a commercial business lot of residence. So I applied for
8:38
Speaker 6: a parking permit and they said no. So then I
8:41
Speaker 6: fought that, and in the meantime, I was getting parking
8:43
Speaker 6: tickets because I have this one hour parking and I
8:45
Speaker 6: fought them all and said, you've not actually provided me
8:48
Speaker 6: with a parking permit. I've been trying to fight you
8:50
Speaker 6: on it. And I got all these parking tickets wiped.
8:52
Speaker 7: Oh my god, that's so good.
8:54
Speaker 6: And obviously I knew I could do it, Like I
8:56
Speaker 6: believed that this was wrong, but I was so worried
8:58
Speaker 6: they weren't going to accept the reasoning. So I just
9:00
Speaker 6: had like a clean slate now. And the anxiety was building.
9:02
Speaker 6: And that's most of it. It's so much anxiety about
9:05
Speaker 6: looming spending. And so I was like to have that
9:08
Speaker 6: cleared win after quite a significant l it felt like,
9:12
Speaker 6: so I'm very pleased with myself.
9:13
Speaker 7: Oh that's so good. Did you end up getting a permit?
9:15
Speaker 2: No?
9:16
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, it's all fine. Now, it's all good. But
9:19
Speaker 6: it was it was a stressful three weeks there.
9:21
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, that's crazy. I love taking a loss
9:23
Speaker 4: making it a win. That's awesome. Yeah.
9:26
Speaker 5: And also just like battling the big dogs, you know
9:29
Speaker 5: what I mean, Really, that's really.
9:30
Speaker 1: Cool writing the letter.
9:32
Speaker 6: You know, there's like I have a law agree, it's
9:34
Speaker 6: kind of my background. So writing that letter is sweet victory,
9:37
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. Like it's just getting really
9:39
Speaker 6: professional behind a keyboard in like a nasty kind LinkedIn way,
9:42
Speaker 6: you know what I.
9:43
Speaker 4: Mean, I am professionally keyboard worrying.
9:46
Speaker 7: Yeah, that is so awesome, perfect.
9:50
Speaker 4: And that will round out the money wins and losses
9:53
Speaker 4: this week? Beck, Have you got some fabulous broke tips
9:55
Speaker 4: for us? I do have some Brogue tips for you guys.
9:58
Speaker 5: One an emparticular, very excited so as always, is one
10:01
Speaker 5: from the community, one for myself, and then I don't
10:03
Speaker 5: know if you happen to have one, we'll go to
10:05
Speaker 5: you after. But first one comes from Jocelyn, who says,
10:08
Speaker 5: join your local buy nothing group. I've gotten everything from
10:11
Speaker 5: yarn to containers to TV stands for free. Saves your
10:14
Speaker 5: wallet and saves things from going to landfill.
10:16
Speaker 2: And love that.
10:17
Speaker 5: It's also the same as like hard rubbish and stuff
10:18
Speaker 5: like that. Don't sneeze at hard rubbish. Really good finds
10:21
Speaker 5: out there. I love picking something up from the side
10:23
Speaker 5: of the curb. And similarly, if you have stuff to
10:25
Speaker 5: get rid of, I've done this when I've moved house.
10:28
Speaker 5: Is if there's like a Facebook.
10:29
Speaker 4: Group for the area that you live, like if the
10:31
Speaker 4: estate or the suburb or whatever, you've got stuff and
10:34
Speaker 4: you need to get rid of it, just chucking up
10:36
Speaker 4: a post and saying hey, like here's a photo of
10:38
Speaker 4: all the stuff. It's on my nature strip. If you
10:40
Speaker 4: want it, come grab it. Because it goes to someone
10:42
Speaker 4: who wants it. It means that you don't have to
10:44
Speaker 4: take it to the up shop or take it to
10:45
Speaker 4: the tap or take it anywhere. Like it's all done
10:47
Speaker 4: for you, and I feel like it's just a nice
10:49
Speaker 4: way to pay it for it.
10:50
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:51
Speaker 4: True, in this economy we love helping other people absolutely.
10:55
Speaker 5: And also yes, that's true. You do save money on
10:57
Speaker 5: like going to the tip. It's actually surprisingly expensive. Yeah,
11:00
Speaker 5: because they weigh your car while you're in it, don't
11:02
Speaker 5: I'm you.
11:03
Speaker 4: Know, I'm contributing at least.
11:06
Speaker 5: Exactly, Like let me get out first, and then you
11:08
Speaker 5: can weigh my rubbish and then my own personal broke tip.
11:11
Speaker 5: And you know, I usually kind of like to to
11:14
Speaker 5: come at this from, you know, a perspective of let's
11:16
Speaker 5: say you have fifteen dollars to last year the week,
11:18
Speaker 5: like how do you kind of get through? But this
11:19
Speaker 5: one's more a broke tip for the future. Have you
11:23
Speaker 5: guys heard of the app Grow Your Money?
11:26
Speaker 1: No?
11:27
Speaker 7: It's really really cool. So a friend is telling me
11:29
Speaker 7: about this.
11:29
Speaker 5: It's an app for women or female identifying and it's
11:31
Speaker 5: basically like, if you go to certain stores that have
11:35
Speaker 5: agreement like this app has agreements with certain stores, if
11:37
Speaker 5: you spend money there, a percentage of that spend or
11:40
Speaker 5: that purchase will go into your either mortgage or your
11:43
Speaker 5: super It's kind of like on the way to bridging
11:46
Speaker 5: the gender pay gap in a nice little way, you
11:48
Speaker 5: know what I mean. Like it's doing their bit. So
11:50
Speaker 5: Grow your Money app. I really recommend it.
11:53
Speaker 1: Hannah.
11:53
Speaker 7: Do you happen to have a broke tip that you'd
11:55
Speaker 7: like to share?
11:55
Speaker 6: Look, I'm not sure that mine's that original, but it's
11:57
Speaker 6: something that's original to me because I've just come across it,
12:00
Speaker 6: and when I publish my book, I noticed that so
12:02
Speaker 6: many people were queuing up at libraries to get it,
12:04
Speaker 6: and I was like, okay, is that I just I'd
12:07
Speaker 6: never thought about libraries.
12:08
Speaker 1: Obviously any of they existed. I love them as a child,
12:10
Speaker 1: but I'd never thought about how that actually works for authors.
12:12
Speaker 6: But authors are still paid every time a book is
12:15
Speaker 6: borrowed from a library, So if you're someone who goes
12:17
Speaker 6: to libraries and borrows books, don't be worried about how
12:19
Speaker 6: much the author makes because they're still getting I think
12:21
Speaker 6: it's like a dollar fifty per borrow. But the libraries
12:24
Speaker 6: also have an application which has hundreds of audiobooks on that.
12:28
Speaker 1: You can access for free.
12:29
Speaker 6: So if you're someone who likes audiobook that doesn't want
12:31
Speaker 6: to pay for Audible because it's really expensive a lot
12:34
Speaker 6: of audio listening apps, libraries have an actual catalog that
12:38
Speaker 6: you can access on your phone. You don't have to
12:40
Speaker 6: go in and hire a disc like. You actually can
12:42
Speaker 6: access as material for free. And I think that a
12:44
Speaker 6: lot of people who are avid readers wouldn't know about it.
12:46
Speaker 1: Potentially no, and.
12:48
Speaker 4: It's such a good if you're someone who likes to read,
12:51
Speaker 4: but maybe you don't have the time or the attention
12:52
Speaker 4: span audiobooks are great because you can two times speed
12:54
Speaker 4: them and just see through that thing.
12:57
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I can't absorb information that fast, but if you can,
13:01
Speaker 5: that's a great idea.
13:02
Speaker 7: That's an awesome one.
13:04
Speaker 4: All right, guys, Well, let's run to a really quick break,
13:06
Speaker 4: and when we come back on the other side, we're
13:08
Speaker 4: gonnachat about what to do in a workplace that promotes
13:10
Speaker 4: men over women, and what to do when you discover
13:12
Speaker 4: your sister is on OnlyFans don't go anywhere. Welcome back, everybody.
13:20
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to this week's money dilemma.
13:25
Speaker 8: Hi, there, have you got a money dilemma you just
13:27
Speaker 8: can't solve? The Sheess on the Money Team is here
13:30
Speaker 8: to help. Every week we tackle your dilemmas, both big
13:33
Speaker 8: and small, to answer your most burning money, career and
13:36
Speaker 8: life questions. To get involved, simply head to our website
13:39
Speaker 8: and leave us a short voice recording and you might
13:41
Speaker 8: just find yourself on the show. Now, let's take a
13:44
Speaker 8: listen to this week's money dilemma.
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Speaker 9: Hey, girls, I'm a chef in a mostly male kitchen
13:51
Speaker 9: at a very popular and high level restaurant. I've worked
13:54
Speaker 9: so hard to rise through the ranks here, And in
13:56
Speaker 9: case you didn't know, kitchens are super male dominated and
14:00
Speaker 9: intense work environments. I've put in long hours and I
14:03
Speaker 9: do extra work to create special dishes in my own
14:05
Speaker 9: time that sell out when they go on the menu.
14:08
Speaker 9: But I've just been overlooked for a promotion that would
14:10
Speaker 9: see more pay for a male chef who is not
14:12
Speaker 9: only newer on the team, but doesn't do any of
14:15
Speaker 9: this work. I'm devastated. Should I leave raise it with
14:19
Speaker 9: my boss? Or am I just being silly?
14:21
Speaker 7: Oh that's such a tough way. It's making me angry
14:23
Speaker 7: to think that's why you're not being silly.
14:26
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was about to say that too. The starters.
14:28
Speaker 6: That's an easy one. It's not silly at all. And
14:30
Speaker 6: I think that's that's the first step, isn't It is
14:32
Speaker 6: that women tend to demean themselves out of the ability
14:35
Speaker 6: to ask questions and to apply for roles they may
14:37
Speaker 6: not feel it qualified for, even though they absolutely are.
14:40
Speaker 6: And we use the language against ourselves in the first instance.
14:43
Speaker 6: That really prevents us from almost acts as an extra
14:47
Speaker 6: blockade to our success. You know, the system is against us,
14:50
Speaker 6: and then we're against ourselves, So that's not helpful. In
14:52
Speaker 6: the first instance.
14:53
Speaker 4: Really no, definitely not, and it's hard. I think it's
14:56
Speaker 4: applicable to so many industries beyond hospitality, or anyone who's
15:01
Speaker 4: a waitress can attest to the fact that kitchens are
15:04
Speaker 4: absolutely insane and generally men and they're always yelling, and
15:06
Speaker 4: they're doing this, that and the other. Quite frankly, they
15:08
Speaker 4: could probably use a woman's touch to make a little
15:10
Speaker 4: you know, bring a little organization. Not to generalize, but yeah,
15:13
Speaker 4: I think it's applicable to so many industries well beyond hospitality.
15:17
Speaker 4: Do you guys think I mean, my opinion really is, yeah,
15:20
Speaker 4: you should leave if they're overlooking you. I think that
15:23
Speaker 4: it sounds like a cultural issue, but I feel like
15:25
Speaker 4: it could be worth raising it too, because sometimes these
15:28
Speaker 4: biases are really unconscious, and you know, if we don't
15:31
Speaker 4: have the conversations, we can't necessarily expect to facilitate change.
15:36
Speaker 4: I know that it can be really tough to have
15:37
Speaker 4: those conversations, and I'd love to know how you guys
15:41
Speaker 4: think that our listener could approach something like that.
15:44
Speaker 5: It's so tough because really, like it is still a thing.
15:47
Speaker 5: I guess, like I am curious to know, Like if
15:49
Speaker 5: your boss is male or female seriously, because like I
15:52
Speaker 5: don't want if you are to talk to your boss,
15:54
Speaker 5: like I don't want you to feel like deflated or
15:56
Speaker 5: kind of like, you know, not to throw this word
15:58
Speaker 5: around so liberally, but you know, you might be gas
16:02
Speaker 5: lit into believing that it's genuinely not a gender thing.
16:06
Speaker 5: And really we can speak from experience and like see
16:09
Speaker 5: that from experience, it does seem that in these kind
16:12
Speaker 5: of situations men tend to get promoted over women, and
16:15
Speaker 5: it's really shame. It's just such an I'm so sick
16:19
Speaker 5: of this kind of thing happening. Who knows, Like we're
16:21
Speaker 5: not there, we don't know the context. We could all
16:23
Speaker 5: be like you know, assuming, but I just don't like
16:27
Speaker 5: that this is still a thing.
16:29
Speaker 7: I think.
16:29
Speaker 5: Yes, maybe have a chat with your boss, try not
16:32
Speaker 5: to get deflated if your boss is not really seeing
16:35
Speaker 5: what you're seeing or just like is kind of making
16:37
Speaker 5: you feel like it's not gender related, like it actually
16:40
Speaker 5: might not be. But still and then yes, try and
16:42
Speaker 5: find a company that supports women and that it's maybe
16:45
Speaker 5: run by women, owned by women. I don't know, but
16:48
Speaker 5: just try and find a different culture, like as just says,
16:50
Speaker 5: I feel like it is probably more cultural, but yeah,
16:53
Speaker 5: it is a thing that happens. You're not being silly,
16:55
Speaker 5: You're not crazy, you're not silly, You're not any of
16:57
Speaker 5: these things. I basically want you to validate yourself because
17:00
Speaker 5: we're validating you.
17:01
Speaker 6: And I think one of the most common experiences, especially
17:03
Speaker 6: in the workplace it's being described, is that there's a
17:06
Speaker 6: lack of a paper trail. So at least in corporate offices,
17:09
Speaker 6: there's always this sort of like paper trail where you
17:12
Speaker 6: can clearly see the communication and lay out a timeline
17:15
Speaker 6: of events that may actually speak to the fact that
17:18
Speaker 6: this is more objective gender discrimination and gives more rise
17:21
Speaker 6: to like a professional formal complaint that can be made
17:24
Speaker 6: and taken to somewhere like the Fair Work Commission or
17:25
Speaker 6: a body that's suited to deal with something like this.
17:28
Speaker 6: But it's so hard when you're working, say in a
17:31
Speaker 6: kitchen as a chef, and you know that all of
17:32
Speaker 6: the interactions you're having or ninety percent of them are
17:35
Speaker 6: not via text or via a phone call, or via
17:38
Speaker 6: voicemail or via email, and there's a lack of a
17:41
Speaker 6: trail that you feel you can speak to objective evidence, right,
17:44
Speaker 6: So it is something where you want to be raising
17:47
Speaker 6: it with your boss in the first instance, and just
17:49
Speaker 6: asking I would even suggest, like in the first instance,
17:52
Speaker 6: having the conversation not through the learns of is it
17:54
Speaker 6: because I'm a woman, but saying like, can you just
17:57
Speaker 6: explain to me why this person was selected? Not in
18:00
Speaker 6: like an obviously like a personal attack way, but almost
18:03
Speaker 6: in a looking for feedback as to what could be
18:05
Speaker 6: done next time, Because if you approach the conversation like that,
18:08
Speaker 6: even though you could be absolutely enraged and have every
18:10
Speaker 6: right to be, you're opening up a conversation where they're
18:13
Speaker 6: pretty much giving you the answer consciously or not, as
18:17
Speaker 6: to what happened there, and you can take whatever information
18:19
Speaker 6: you gathered and actually move forward that And I think
18:22
Speaker 6: that can be really telling because then if they point
18:24
Speaker 6: to specific things and you have your arguments of when
18:27
Speaker 6: you started, what your qualifications are, and the distinction between
18:30
Speaker 6: you and the person that was chosen over you, you
18:33
Speaker 6: can then start to paying the clearer picture as to
18:34
Speaker 6: what's happened, and whether that's that you want to make
18:37
Speaker 6: a gender discrimination complaint about your workplace formally, whether you
18:40
Speaker 6: want to look for work elsewhere. I think it's about
18:42
Speaker 6: having the conversation in the first instance, to kind of
18:45
Speaker 6: look at, Okay, what reasoning has been communicated to me,
18:48
Speaker 6: and how do I feel about that reasoning before you
18:50
Speaker 6: can make any further steps.
18:52
Speaker 7: Yeah, really good point.
18:53
Speaker 4: I was going to say, ask for the data. I say,
18:56
Speaker 4: so to speak around, you know, having a conversation with
18:58
Speaker 4: your manager or whoever was the hiring You know, I
19:01
Speaker 4: saw that X y Z got this job. I also
19:03
Speaker 4: applied for this job. Can you explain to me, you know,
19:05
Speaker 4: what were the points of difference between us? And maybe
19:07
Speaker 4: they say, oh, they've got this qualification or they've got
19:09
Speaker 4: this skill, or they've done this or done that, and
19:12
Speaker 4: then you can use that metric as a baseline to say, oh, well,
19:15
Speaker 4: actually I have this, or I have that or I
19:17
Speaker 4: did this instead. And as you were saying, it really
19:20
Speaker 4: opens up firstly, the opportunity for conversation where you know,
19:23
Speaker 4: if it is a situation where perhaps the deciding factor
19:26
Speaker 4: wasn't gender biased, then you know, now you have an
19:29
Speaker 4: understanding of what your clear markers or steps are to
19:32
Speaker 4: receive that promotion opportunity next time it comes up. And
19:36
Speaker 4: if that's not the case, if you know it is
19:38
Speaker 4: leaning more towards the space that you are being discriminated against.
19:42
Speaker 4: It gives you something concrete and solid to say, hey, like,
19:45
Speaker 4: based on the facts, based on the statistics that we
19:48
Speaker 4: can't argue with, this is the experience that I'm having,
19:51
Speaker 4: And it allows you to have that conversation either with
19:54
Speaker 4: your manager or as you were saying, with the appropriate
19:56
Speaker 4: body to report them, be that fair work or somebody else,
20:00
Speaker 4: in a way that isn't skewed by emotion, because I
20:03
Speaker 4: think when we have these conversations around gender bias, it
20:06
Speaker 4: tends to often be brought up, Oh, you're being emotional,
20:08
Speaker 4: or women have a tendency to be emotional, you have
20:10
Speaker 4: a tendency to take it a certain way. And I
20:12
Speaker 4: think if we take the emotion out of it and
20:15
Speaker 4: really just operate on solid facts, solid information, and wherever
20:19
Speaker 4: possible document it in writing, so via email, via text,
20:23
Speaker 4: because as Hannah was saying, a lot of the time
20:25
Speaker 4: in these kinds of workplaces, someone's yelling something at someone
20:28
Speaker 4: across the kitchen and it's not necessarily formally documented. Having
20:32
Speaker 4: that concrete, in arguable evidence, so to speak, will help
20:36
Speaker 4: you down the line, no matter what choice you want
20:39
Speaker 4: to make in terms of how you pursue it, I think, yeah.
20:42
Speaker 6: And also I was just going to add the one
20:44
Speaker 6: thing I would recommend everyone's going to have a look
20:46
Speaker 6: at is the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, which is the
20:49
Speaker 6: government's agency that really looks into things like the gender
20:52
Speaker 6: pay gap and gender discrimination laws in this country. And
20:55
Speaker 6: it's not about saying need to pursue a formal complaint.
20:57
Speaker 6: That's totally up to you. Gives you the tools and
21:01
Speaker 6: the resources to know what your work post rights are
21:03
Speaker 6: and how to pursue that line if you are interested
21:06
Speaker 6: in it down the track.
21:07
Speaker 4: And also just a lot of really interesting data and statistics,
21:10
Speaker 4: Like we reference their data a lot in posts that
21:12
Speaker 4: we do for Instagram and stuff, because they have a
21:15
Speaker 4: lot of just really good information. It's coming from a
21:17
Speaker 4: government body, so you know that it's solid, you know
21:19
Speaker 4: that it's really holistic. And they have an Instagram. They
21:22
Speaker 4: have very few followers, but I would definitely recommend checking
21:25
Speaker 4: them out because they feature a lot of interesting stats
21:27
Speaker 4: on there. It's WGE Agency is their Instagram. But yeah,
21:32
Speaker 4: I feel like that wraps that up in a nice
21:33
Speaker 4: little bow. More than anything, I just want to say
21:35
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I think a lot of us can relate
21:36
Speaker 4: to being in that situation where you feel like perhaps
21:40
Speaker 4: you're in a male dominated space and you're not being
21:42
Speaker 4: heard or honored in the way that you deserve to be,
21:44
Speaker 4: and that just can impact like how you feel about
21:47
Speaker 4: yourself as well. And I just want to say that
21:50
Speaker 4: you're valid, and your your skill set and just you
21:53
Speaker 4: as a human being is not based on the perception
21:55
Speaker 4: that the people around you have in the workplace or
21:57
Speaker 4: in anywhere other situation. Either. I'm sorry that that's happening
22:01
Speaker 4: to you, and you one hundred percent deserve better. Don't
22:04
Speaker 4: overlook or minimize that feeling.
22:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely very well said.
22:07
Speaker 4: Thank you. Should we change the tune ever so slightly
22:10
Speaker 4: and take on this week's spicy DM?
22:13
Speaker 2: Yes?
22:13
Speaker 7: Please?
22:14
Speaker 1: All right?
22:15
Speaker 4: So we as always put a call out on Instagram
22:17
Speaker 4: if you're not following us, it's at She's on the
22:19
Speaker 4: money aus and we shared this DM that we received. Hey,
22:24
Speaker 4: she's on the money. I have a DM for you.
22:26
Speaker 4: My sister, who works in retail, has just disclose to
22:29
Speaker 4: me that she makes most of her money on OnlyFans.
22:32
Speaker 4: I want to straight up say that I have no
22:34
Speaker 4: problem whatsoever with women making their way through the world. However,
22:37
Speaker 4: they choose and good on her for making an income
22:40
Speaker 4: through OnlyFans, and I do truly feel this, but she
22:43
Speaker 4: is also my sister, and I feel worried for her
22:46
Speaker 4: long term future and well being in doing this. She
22:49
Speaker 4: has said that she's dropped her hours at her retail
22:51
Speaker 4: job as she makes more money on OnlyFans, But I
22:54
Speaker 4: don't think that she should be relying on this as
22:56
Speaker 4: her primary form of income. Am I a bad feminist
22:59
Speaker 4: for feeling concerned for her and not being one hundred
23:02
Speaker 4: percent supportive? Can I voice my concern to her? There's
23:07
Speaker 4: so many facets.
23:08
Speaker 7: So many I was worried.
23:10
Speaker 5: Actually, I was really worried when I first started hearing
23:12
Speaker 5: this because I was like, you know how I feel
23:15
Speaker 5: about only fans. I think it's absolutely fine for anyone
23:18
Speaker 5: to do anything in any way they want. If all
23:20
Speaker 5: parties are consenting, everyone's happy. Who actually cares?
23:23
Speaker 7: You know what I mean?
23:23
Speaker 5: Lately, we use our ears as an audio producer, We
23:26
Speaker 5: use our mouths as an ouncers like we use.
23:29
Speaker 7: I don't really get it.
23:31
Speaker 5: I don't really get it, and it's been kind of
23:34
Speaker 5: like explained me in many different ways, but I still
23:36
Speaker 5: don't get why the only fans is an issue at all,
23:39
Speaker 5: So I was kind of worried there for a second.
23:40
Speaker 5: But I'm happy to see that she's not coming from it,
23:43
Speaker 5: as you know, in any kind of bad way. But
23:46
Speaker 5: i mean, what is bad, you know, what's the definition
23:47
Speaker 5: of anything. But I think it's fair enough. It's valid
23:50
Speaker 5: to think, like if this is a I suppose like
23:54
Speaker 5: a career that is not really maybe going to take
23:57
Speaker 5: her into her like you know, late years in life,
24:00
Speaker 5: or maybe she's going to stop this eventually, and you
24:03
Speaker 5: kind of just want her to focus on something that
24:04
Speaker 5: will be a little bit more like long lasting, or
24:07
Speaker 5: something she can fall back on just in case it
24:09
Speaker 5: stops working out. That's a different story. And I really
24:11
Speaker 5: that is a really tough one, Like how do you
24:13
Speaker 5: even broach that subject? You know that sounds yeah, like
24:16
Speaker 5: you're against what she's doing.
24:19
Speaker 2: You know.
24:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's tough because it sounds like it's coming from
24:21
Speaker 4: a good place. And as someone who has a corporate background,
24:24
Speaker 4: I understand that, you know, digital footprint is something that's
24:27
Speaker 4: very weird real and we all have to be conscious
24:29
Speaker 4: of what we put on the Internet and the potential
24:31
Speaker 4: implications for that. Do I personally believe that people should
24:35
Speaker 4: be able to do whatever they want and that should
24:36
Speaker 4: have no bearing on their career opportunities or how they
24:39
Speaker 4: perceive publicly. Absolutely, but unfortunately that isn't the world that
24:43
Speaker 4: we live in currently. And I guess I understand wanting
24:47
Speaker 4: to make sure that she's aware that the choices that
24:50
Speaker 4: she makes may have those implications. For example, industries like teaching,
24:54
Speaker 4: I could see it potentially being something that could become
24:57
Speaker 4: an issue, you know, because they have very strict rules around,
25:01
Speaker 4: you know, what people can and can't do. Again, not
25:04
Speaker 4: that I agree that that should be the case, but
25:06
Speaker 4: I also do very much think you know, she's her
25:09
Speaker 4: own human and she deserves her own autonomy, and if
25:12
Speaker 4: it's something that she's happy and she's safe and she's
25:14
Speaker 4: making money, as you were saying back, I think like
25:16
Speaker 4: that is the most important thing. As for bringing it up,
25:19
Speaker 4: it's a really tough conversation because I don't even now
25:22
Speaker 4: us having this conversation. I'm struggling to convey how I
25:26
Speaker 4: feel in a way that acknowledges what I feel to
25:30
Speaker 4: be all of the relevant and important things, because part
25:32
Speaker 4: of them like yeah, girl, get your bag, do what
25:35
Speaker 4: you do, proud and happy for you, But the other
25:38
Speaker 4: part of me wants to say, hey, but there are
25:40
Speaker 4: these other things to consider. There are you know, The
25:43
Speaker 4: reality is there may be implications.
25:45
Speaker 1: You know.
25:46
Speaker 4: I want you to be aware of that too, because
25:48
Speaker 4: I don't want that to stop you from getting your
25:50
Speaker 4: dream job down the track. And I don't know how
25:52
Speaker 4: you could approach that. And there's I don't have a sister,
25:54
Speaker 4: but I imagine that's a very challenging bond to navigate
25:57
Speaker 4: in and of itself as well. So I don't really
26:00
Speaker 4: know what the answer is. But Hannah, you look like
26:02
Speaker 4: you definitely have something to say.
26:03
Speaker 6: I find this really it's such a great question. It
26:05
Speaker 6: is a bit spicy, and it is a bit complicated,
26:07
Speaker 6: But I honestly feel that the fact that we're all
26:10
Speaker 6: a bit like clearly like ooh, nervous to talk about
26:13
Speaker 6: it speaks to what the real problem is.
26:16
Speaker 1: And the problem is an only fans.
26:17
Speaker 6: The problem is social expectation and judgment, right, And so
26:22
Speaker 6: the problem is not and I think I would say
26:25
Speaker 6: to this person, your concern and your like sort of
26:29
Speaker 6: insecure feelings around this aren't actually steeped in a regressive
26:33
Speaker 6: or conservative view that you hold. They're steeped in the
26:36
Speaker 6: fact that you worry how other people will perceive your sister,
26:38
Speaker 6: and so you're taking on the mental load of that
26:42
Speaker 6: concern of judgment that society might hold for her and
26:45
Speaker 6: what that means for her. That's coming from a good place,
26:48
Speaker 6: But I think it's about considering how you then approach
26:50
Speaker 6: that conversation because like as feminists, I say, absolutely get it.
26:56
Speaker 6: What I would say the conversation would be from my
26:58
Speaker 6: perspective is not saying, should you be doing OnlyFans no slay.
27:02
Speaker 6: The conversation should be, hey, what is your long term
27:07
Speaker 6: savings plan and what is your protective layer here in
27:11
Speaker 6: case you were to struggle to find work afterwards, because
27:14
Speaker 6: we know how society is. I think it's about approaching
27:17
Speaker 6: it from the judgment perspective and saying, I'm with you,
27:19
Speaker 6: but financially security wise, what is your plan? Because I
27:24
Speaker 6: want to protect you from what other people might say
27:27
Speaker 6: and think if you want to go into X Y
27:28
Speaker 6: Z industry, because I would say that to myself and
27:31
Speaker 6: my sister, like do you have you know, financial advice?
27:34
Speaker 6: Do you have an accountant? Do you need help with
27:36
Speaker 6: your actual financial management to make you feel secure in
27:40
Speaker 6: your progressive awesome choices, because I would say it is
27:44
Speaker 6: super impressive that you have the like fortitude to go
27:47
Speaker 6: and do that and to make money from it, and
27:49
Speaker 6: to be super impressive.
27:50
Speaker 1: But think about it this way.
27:52
Speaker 6: Politicians for a long time received a guaranteed pension after
27:56
Speaker 6: retirement because there was a belief, and that belief was
27:58
Speaker 6: quite true that after someone retired from politics they would
28:01
Speaker 6: struggle to find a job because of things they'd said
28:03
Speaker 6: and done in.
28:03
Speaker 1: Their role that was very public. It's kind of the
28:06
Speaker 1: same thing.
28:07
Speaker 6: There is a risk associated and it's how you protect
28:10
Speaker 6: someone from that risk. So it's not problematic to worry
28:13
Speaker 6: because you're worrying about you want to protect your sister
28:16
Speaker 6: from society or not judging her. And so as long
28:18
Speaker 6: as you've asked yourself those questions about where your worry
28:22
Speaker 6: is coming from, and as long as that's not judgment
28:24
Speaker 6: from you, just work out what is your worry and
28:27
Speaker 6: articulate that in a protective and considered way.
28:30
Speaker 1: I think, because she's.
28:31
Speaker 6: Doing well and as long as she can continue to
28:33
Speaker 6: do well and prepare for the future, so be it.
28:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've put it really eloquently there. I completely agree.
28:41
Speaker 4: And the other thing that I would maybe suggest bringing
28:43
Speaker 4: up or asking her about, is what she's doing with
28:45
Speaker 4: her money right now, because she said that she's obviously
28:48
Speaker 4: earning more than she was in her retail wage. And
28:50
Speaker 4: we've had a few Only Fans creators on the podcast
28:53
Speaker 4: before for Money Diaries, and if you haven't listened to
28:54
Speaker 4: those episodes, you can find them by searching up she's
28:56
Speaker 4: on the Money Only Fans. There's been some great ones,
28:58
Speaker 4: But something that we've heard when talking to people is
29:01
Speaker 4: that sometimes they go from earning not a lot they're
29:04
Speaker 4: just earning an ordinary, solid wage, to earning in some cases,
29:08
Speaker 4: crazy amounts of money that you could only dream of.
29:11
Speaker 4: And when people it's kind of like winning the lottery,
29:13
Speaker 4: like you're not always prepared or equipped for that situation,
29:17
Speaker 4: and people historically have often gone, oh my god, I
29:20
Speaker 4: have all this money that I didn't have before, and
29:22
Speaker 4: they've blown it. Whereas it's a really good time for
29:25
Speaker 4: her now, like you were saying, Hannah to be thinking
29:27
Speaker 4: about her future. Should she be investing, should she be
29:29
Speaker 4: putting money aside in savings? How is she putting the
29:32
Speaker 4: extra money that she has now to work to support
29:36
Speaker 4: her if she can't find employment or even if she
29:39
Speaker 4: decides to keep doing only vans like whatever her future
29:41
Speaker 4: looks like, I think not taking her newfound success and
29:45
Speaker 4: letting that get away from her, because I think too
29:48
Speaker 4: many times we've seen people who have had an opportunity
29:51
Speaker 4: and not handled their money in perhaps the best way.
29:54
Speaker 4: They've not had the right advisors or support around them,
29:57
Speaker 4: and that has meant that that opportunity or that influx
30:01
Speaker 4: of cash has kind of been rendered redundant. And we
30:03
Speaker 4: don't want to see that happened to her either.
30:05
Speaker 7: Absolutely, what do the community have to say? Let me
30:08
Speaker 7: tell you.
30:08
Speaker 4: So we started off by asking have you ever been
30:10
Speaker 4: concerned by your friend or family member's career choice? Fifty
30:15
Speaker 4: nine percent of people said yes, which shocked me, and
30:18
Speaker 4: forty one percent of people said no. Then we said,
30:22
Speaker 4: if yes, did you voice this concern to them? Fifty
30:25
Speaker 4: eight percent of people said no, it's not my place
30:28
Speaker 4: to comment on it. Fifteen percent of people said yes
30:32
Speaker 4: and it didn't go well, and twenty seven percent of
30:35
Speaker 4: people said yes and we had a good chat about it.
30:38
Speaker 4: So an overwhelming majority of people were concerned for something
30:42
Speaker 4: that someone they loved was doing, but didn't bring it
30:44
Speaker 4: up to that sure okay, which is crazy. And then
30:47
Speaker 4: we said tell us your two cents, and it was
30:50
Speaker 4: a really varied mix of responses, and I think people
30:54
Speaker 4: coming from kind of the different perspectives that we've discussed here.
30:58
Speaker 4: One person said, you're right to be concerned. Your sister
31:01
Speaker 4: needs to have a backup plan for if her only
31:03
Speaker 4: fans income dries up. Somebody else said, it's very hard
31:07
Speaker 4: to earn good or consistent income from something like only fans.
31:10
Speaker 4: Is she putting all of her eggs in one basket?
31:12
Speaker 4: But somebody else said, make the money while she can,
31:14
Speaker 4: and she can always go back to retail whenever she wants.
31:18
Speaker 4: Somebody said, don't worry about other people's money and how
31:21
Speaker 4: they make it. And I wanted to ask you guys
31:23
Speaker 4: about this because it's a bit of a catch twenty two, right.
31:27
Speaker 4: It's the feeling concerned for the people that we love
31:30
Speaker 4: and wanting the best for them.
31:32
Speaker 2: You know.
31:32
Speaker 4: The sister obviously wants to just make sure that her
31:34
Speaker 4: sister is doing well. Our listeners who have responded to
31:37
Speaker 4: the pole have obviously seen some kind of red flag
31:40
Speaker 4: in the choices that their friends or family are making.
31:44
Speaker 4: But if you see something that's wrong and you don't
31:46
Speaker 4: voice your concern. Is that doing the right thing because
31:51
Speaker 4: it's not your place to have an opinion on what
31:53
Speaker 4: somebody else is doing.
31:54
Speaker 7: Or is it a little bit of.
31:56
Speaker 4: A disservice to the person you love by not making
31:59
Speaker 4: sure or helping them to chat about something.
32:03
Speaker 6: I think that when we talk about money, it's one
32:05
Speaker 6: of the biggest taboo subjects, right trust. So my thing is,
32:09
Speaker 6: it's exactly what you were just saying. It's this really
32:12
Speaker 6: kind of double standard, hypocritical thing. We're saying, Oh, we
32:16
Speaker 6: shouldn't talk about it, but we're actually what of the
32:18
Speaker 6: point of she using the money is to empower women
32:20
Speaker 6: by having conversations that traditionally we weren't allowed to able
32:23
Speaker 6: or feeling comfortable to have. What I would say the
32:26
Speaker 6: difference is here, just from my consideration, then, is the
32:30
Speaker 6: reason people don't approach the conversations because they think there's
32:33
Speaker 6: judgment and they don't want to hurt the relationship.
32:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's why I think it comes back to
32:37
Speaker 1: the how.
32:37
Speaker 6: I think it comes back to sitting with yourself and saying,
32:40
Speaker 6: where is my concern coming from? And is that fair
32:42
Speaker 6: and justified concern? And how can I approach this in
32:46
Speaker 6: the way that actually expresses the concern without conveying judgment. Yes,
32:49
Speaker 6: because we shouldn't be silent on money because it's money.
32:52
Speaker 6: That's just going back to that archaic way of thinking
32:54
Speaker 6: that prevents women from earning more, asking for more pay,
32:57
Speaker 6: asking for better conditions and more flexible working arrangements.
33:00
Speaker 1: We need to converse.
33:01
Speaker 6: It's about how is it in a respectful and comfortable,
33:04
Speaker 6: secure way.
33:05
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, I completely agree with that. I was going
33:07
Speaker 5: to say something very similar, but not as well articulated.
33:10
Speaker 3: For sure.
33:11
Speaker 6: I'm sure it's going to be.
33:14
Speaker 7: Oh, pressures on, pressures on.
33:16
Speaker 5: No, I was basically just going to say, like, you know,
33:18
Speaker 5: as well as you said, Hannah, like trying to figure
33:20
Speaker 5: out where the concern comes from. I think that if
33:22
Speaker 5: you are in a position where you're kind of concerned
33:24
Speaker 5: about someone's career choice or what they're doing, and you
33:27
Speaker 5: want to voice your opinion, really just figuring out what's
33:31
Speaker 5: the root of your concern, because if it's like I
33:34
Speaker 5: don't like only fans, then that's you know, you're going
33:38
Speaker 5: to have to start breaking down your own like way
33:40
Speaker 5: of thinking and being like, where does that come from?
33:42
Speaker 5: Is that my train of thought or is that society's
33:45
Speaker 5: train of thought and where like is that even based
33:47
Speaker 5: in anything?
33:48
Speaker 4: Like?
33:48
Speaker 7: Probably actually not.
33:49
Speaker 5: But if it's actually, like you know, I don't know,
33:51
Speaker 5: let's say your partner as a firefighter and you're scared
33:55
Speaker 5: because that's actually really really dangerous kind of career, you know,
33:59
Speaker 5: just trying to figure out the actual root of your
34:02
Speaker 5: own thinking and asking why why why until you break
34:06
Speaker 5: it all the way down and if you still have
34:08
Speaker 5: solid reason to be concerned, then yes, exactly, like kind
34:12
Speaker 5: of like approaching it in a way that's not judgmental,
34:14
Speaker 5: in a way that's kind of like objective, in kind,
34:17
Speaker 5: compassionate and yeah, so that's sorry, is the longest way
34:22
Speaker 5: to answer your question.
34:23
Speaker 4: No, I agree, And I think a really interesting point
34:25
Speaker 4: that you've both brought up, and something that I would
34:28
Speaker 4: like to just say very clearly is I think that
34:31
Speaker 4: there is something very positive in critically looking at your
34:35
Speaker 4: thought patterns and processes. And even if you come to
34:39
Speaker 4: realize that something you are thinking or feeling is a
34:42
Speaker 4: response to a societal standard that perhaps doesn't sit well
34:46
Speaker 4: with your values, we need to remember that a lot
34:48
Speaker 4: of things are so ingrained in us because it's what
34:52
Speaker 4: we've seen and watched and learned from a really young age.
34:55
Speaker 4: And to undo that train of thinking does take conscious effort.
35:00
Speaker 4: And so even if your knee jerk response to this
35:02
Speaker 4: as a listener was you know, well, she shouldn't be
35:06
Speaker 4: doing only fans, maybe that was your immediate response, and
35:08
Speaker 4: upon reflection, if you go, why was I thinking that?
35:11
Speaker 4: Was it coming from a place of concern for her future?
35:13
Speaker 4: Was it coming from a place of maybe I'm not
35:16
Speaker 4: as positive of women in the sex industry? Looking at
35:19
Speaker 4: why and how that is? I think, don't feel like
35:24
Speaker 4: you're a bad person if you necessarily are repeating thought
35:27
Speaker 4: patterns that you have been exposed to, because I think
35:29
Speaker 4: we can all identify as feminists but still have things
35:33
Speaker 4: that we need to work on and understand within ourselves.
35:35
Speaker 4: It is actually speaking from my personal experience, like it
35:39
Speaker 4: takes some work to undo those intrinsic thoughts and those
35:42
Speaker 4: patterns and feelings. And that is something that is active,
35:46
Speaker 4: and that comes from those reflections that you have in
35:48
Speaker 4: your thoughts and your feelings and your responses, and sometimes
35:50
Speaker 4: you don't even realize that they're there until you experience
35:53
Speaker 4: something that brings it up and prompts that response from you,
35:57
Speaker 4: and so I just want to say, if that is
35:58
Speaker 4: the case, you don't feel like that makes you inherently
36:02
Speaker 4: a bad person, Like reflection is a good thing. That's
36:05
Speaker 4: what makes us grow. Totally, because I don't want to villainize.
36:08
Speaker 4: I guess the idea of something that maybe you didn't
36:12
Speaker 4: know that was there, If that makes any sense.
36:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
36:15
Speaker 6: It really comes back to like a person's intention versus
36:18
Speaker 6: their impact, because your intention could be to have like
36:21
Speaker 6: a conversation that shows you care. But if you haven't
36:24
Speaker 6: really thought about how you're going to do that and
36:27
Speaker 6: what's at the root of your thoughts, your impact is
36:30
Speaker 6: going to actually have a gap between intention and impact.
36:33
Speaker 6: And you can't always control and it's not your job
36:35
Speaker 6: to control your impact. But if someone comes back to
36:37
Speaker 6: you and says it hurt you, it hurt them, or
36:39
Speaker 6: it made them uncomfortable, that really is showing that gap.
36:42
Speaker 6: So it's about sitting with it and considering it before
36:44
Speaker 6: you actually land.
36:46
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, and as you said, having it in a
36:48
Speaker 4: kind and considered way. And that seems to be really
36:51
Speaker 4: reflective of the things that some people are saying. It
36:54
Speaker 4: falls into t camp. Some people are expressing concern, some
36:57
Speaker 4: people are saying it sounds like the sister does have
36:59
Speaker 4: a problem with only fans, and you know, we only
37:01
Speaker 4: have the information that was provided to us. But I
37:04
Speaker 4: think the overarching outcome here and from a lot of
37:07
Speaker 4: our listeners is as long as she's making considered choices
37:11
Speaker 4: and is aware of the broader impacts, you know, let
37:14
Speaker 4: her do what she wants, but it's not a bad
37:16
Speaker 4: thing for her sister and our listener to have that conversation,
37:19
Speaker 4: as long as it's done in a kind and compassionate way.
37:22
Speaker 4: Absolutely amazing. Any last thoughts from anyone before we wrap up.
37:26
Speaker 4: I think I'm really satisfied with that. That was a
37:28
Speaker 4: really good one.
37:29
Speaker 7: Hannah.
37:30
Speaker 4: You are so articulate and wonderful. Thank you so much
37:33
Speaker 4: for coming on and sharing your thoughts. You are the best,
37:35
Speaker 4: Absolutely wonderful. Thank you.
37:37
Speaker 6: I love you both.
37:38
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. It's been a privilege.
37:40
Speaker 4: Come back anytime. And if people want to hear more
37:42
Speaker 4: from yourself you said earlier, you're on the podcast, You're
37:45
Speaker 4: on Instagram, there's another book on the way, there's one
37:48
Speaker 4: already out which is wonderful. Anywhere else that people should
37:51
Speaker 4: be looking to find you.
37:52
Speaker 6: Those are the places I'm on TikTok and I have
37:54
Speaker 6: a personal Instagram as well, but they're all linked to
37:56
Speaker 6: each other, so if you find one, you pretty much
37:58
Speaker 6: find it all.
37:58
Speaker 1: So thank you again.
38:00
Speaker 4: You're in the ecosystem, which is great, amazing. Well, thank
38:02
Speaker 4: you so much for joining us everybody. We had a
38:05
Speaker 4: wonderful time as always, and Victoria will see you bright
38:07
Speaker 4: early on Monday for a money diary. Have a good weekend.
38:10
Speaker 8: Bye guys.
38:12
Speaker 6: Bye.
38:18
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38:20
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38:24
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