Latest / Nonprofit411 Podcast / Nonprofit Branding: Roger Starkweather on How Your Team Is Showing Up
Transcript
- Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Hello and welcome to the Nonprofit 411 podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Barton, and I'm joined today by Roger Starkweather, co-founder and CEO at A New Brand. Roger helps nonprofits and social impact organizations build brands and campaigns that help bring people together around their work. He co-founded a new brand, a Seattle-born agency, whose motto is branding for the greater good. He got his start selling rubber stamps, and he'll tell you mentorship is everything. Roger, welcome. roger starkweather: Ha ha. y you nailed it. That's awesome. Hi Sarah. Good morning. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Good morning. So selling rubber stamps, that's very exciting to me because I'm a scrapbooker. Is that the type of stamps that you sold? roger starkweather: You know what? It's really interesting. If you talk about the generational people and and and say, Yeah, you go back in history and tell what you did when I started in sales selling rubber stamps and those are the ones that you say facts, sold, paid, the back in the day when the office needed some kind of clarification on paperwork. And so, yeah, I s door to door rubber stamp sales guy here. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Wow, hey, that's fun. That's fun. My husband still uses them. He's he's very old school. And I have to say, like roger starkweather: Ha ha ha. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I worked at university and I learned the value of paper files because we merged with another organization, inherited all of their files and over the years like we tried to become digital, right? But the longevity of those type of records. Like you want your university to know that you have your degree for the rest of your life. And and so there was a lot of times we actually had to dig into paper. And, you know, we had those stamps roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: too. roger starkweather: Yeah. So anyway, so yeah, my my my career has always been in kind of on that sales side of things, but I've been so fortunate to work with lots of different customers and organizations and then being a serial entrepreneur myself, I have just decided to do a lot of the creation and businesses myself. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Perfect. Well, yeah, I love that. Okay, we're gonna start with my favorite question and then we'll get into talking about branding and how what how this applies and why it matters to nonprofits. So my first question always is though, what's your favorite hobby? Because I believe everybody needs a hobby. roger starkweather: My favorite hobby. my goodness. I am teaching myself to be a portrait painter. So in my world there's a lot of art. So I've always painted. but yeah, I've decided recently to take on portrait painting, which is a completely different animal. and yeah, that's my current hobby. And I'm and I'm loving it. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: That's that's fun. That's very brave. I feel like portrait painting is a very brave thing. because 'cause people roger starkweather: It it is. It's crazy. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: can see the representation that you started from. I haven't I haven't braved that yet. I just actually took up watercolor. So do watercolor or acrylic? roger starkweather: These are oils. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Oils, okay. So roger starkweather: Yeah. So Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: never painted with oils. roger starkweather: yeah, yeah, yeah. So Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Well exciting. All right. Well, okay. So can you tell the listeners a little bit about how you got started in the work that you're currently in and why you've chosen to work with organizations who really are, you know, doing social good? roger starkweather: I love this question and most people find that we're very transparent. I'm very transparent in terms of life and being human. so I had a major life change five years ago. and it got me to a place where I really needed to kind of think about how can I serve, right? It brought me to a place of how can I serve? And I've just been fortunate to have been connected with my business partner, Stephen Picanza, for the last fifteen years working in the agency space. So we both have kind of grown up in the creative app space and we always did projects together. But literally when I approached him and said, I think we need to do something more meaningful, how about this? And so we laid the idea down about creating an opportunity just to work with non profits. The nonprofit space has been challenging for everyone at all the time. And even in specifically these current administration days, it's just really even harder and more difficult to make sure that people can do the impact. So we came up with a new brand. and and the tagline was great branding for the greater good of humankind. And we literally have grown our company around all of that. And it it it has just been the right thing to do. And it in this stage of life accomplishing as much as we've accomplished. it's just been divinely given to us I should say. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yes. I love that. I think that's I think that, you know, there's so much truth in in terms of stages of life kind of influencing the purpose of your career, you know, and what you're focused on. And I I'm kind of the same way as I move into, you know, I don't want to say later life, I don't know. Midlife. I'm like I the the next chapter, right? My roger starkweather: The next the next the next chapter. The next chapter. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: kids, my youngest kid graduates this year. So as I move into the next chapter, and as a fundraiser, the reason that I started my work is because I want to see as many people be successful as possible. I want the nonprofit sector in particular to be as successful as pop as possible because people don't recognize how much. positive things they contribute to our communities, right? And then and then you're in branding and I feel like you can you can tell me because I'm not sure, but I feel like it's something that many nonprofits don't really take into consideration as a significant business investment. Do you think that's true or I don't know, because you know, I I it's a very a lot of the branding that I see it it's not cohesive maybe. roger starkweather: Yeah, no, no, no, you're touching on a couple of points that I just am passionate about. So an investment, absolutely. You know, your branding and marketing platform, your branding and marketing operations systems. They used to call it guidelines, but we call it an operating system. Doesn't it has to have a fluidity to it, it has a life to it, and just like people has to be fed, right? You have to feed this this beast. you neglect it and I think that you run into the challenges of being kind of put on the wayside, right? even nonprofits have to be competitive amongst their own kind of verticals, right? There's lots of information out there. A lot of human services overlap with each other, but that's not to say that we can't make those human service organizations stand out. And I think what branding and marketing will do if you invest and have the right team in place, it continues to align all those different audiences and groups and internal and external. So you've got everyone from donors and founders and and volunteers, and if they're all singing from the same hymn book, right, the same page, then we all can have a greater impact. And and that's kind of the ultimate goal, right? How can we make the impact that we've all set out to do? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I I like that you're say, you know, you're 'cause you're kind of tying it into it's so much more than just maybe the look and feel of what you do. It is the story and having that cohesive story behind everything, right? And and do you think I mean, do you think this is really significant as we look at fundraising? Like, do you feel like it a a strong brand or how do you feel like a strong brand really brings out I don't know opportunities for nonprofits. roger starkweather: when there is complete alignment and clarity in your mission statement and in your positioning statement and the actions that you take, a donor will a funder will see right through that and actually be emotionally connected to it. Right? So the goal is to make sure that your brand has the i the impact that you're trying to achieve, but also translate that into an emotional call to action. And and and and so it's not easy to do. Some you know, we work with brands that have very difficult, you know, awareness, right? People think, what is that and what do you really stand for? Right. So say for example, the top section of your website should immediately communicate the clarity on why you exist and what you're trying to achieve. And people get caught up in pretty pictures and you know, kind of fluff you know, kind of like very creative elements, and that's great. But at the end of the day, if from a funder's perspective and trying to make sure that you are out there showing up the way that the brand needs to show up, getting clarity, just getting crystal clear on why you're doing what you're doing. And there's a process to get that done. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: There's a process to get that done. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. So I think when we think about marketing, so for nonprofits, when we think about it for business, it's to drive participation in our programming. But for nonprofits, it's a lot of times they don't need more participation in their programming, though they're they're happy to increase their programming needs. It sounds like it's much more about maybe getting the participation of everybody else around that. You know? So tell me tell me about marketing. So tell me, I don't know. I mean, tell me what you how you address marketing for a nonprofit or or roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: who you're marketing to. roger starkweather: Well in a in in a very simple answer, marketing is the road that brands drive down. So once you have a brand foundation and your reasons to believe and you know who you are and why you're doing it, right? Then you have to execute. And now when you execute, marketing is the channels, the touch points, the abilities to connect to different audiences, and and what that triggers and what the results will be. So marketing is is a executionable aspect, right? And there's strategies behind all of this, right? So you can take your brand, foundation, kick it up and weave it down into all these elements of of reach outs, right? There's social reach outs, there's personal reach outs, there's tempo moments with galas and fundraising moments. There's all sorts of reach outs. And so to us marketing is just the road that we all have to travel down. And but we have to be thinking about that road, right? It's like building a house. Like you build a solid foundation, and the next thing you know you're putting up walls and painting and putting in lamps and curtains. same thing for branding and marketing. You just And in in in in in one of my past businesses, I was in the world of construction. So we literally use, you know, some foundational elements to in the same motif, right? We would just always talk about lay your foundation, start building up your castle and see where it takes you. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: And you kind of mentioned it, you know, it also helps you be able to quantify some of that impact that you're actually making because otherwise we can only guess or assume, right, that it actually matters, right? That what we're saying actually matters or is landing roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah. And y now we're gonna get into Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: properly. roger starkweather: Exactly, exactly. And now we're gonna get into the r the the real stuff that really matters to the executive directors and the president's CEO and the boards, and that is what's the bottom line return on all of this? How does it really measure? And those are difficult things to do. Those are difficult things to measure because everyone operates in a different vernacular. Right. but with the invention of this thing called AI and data and all the things that people are just hype hyper focused on. There's also a return on experience, an ROE. Right? So then you can often think about it may not have dribbled to a bottom dollar f figure, but what does the experience translate into and how does that shift the narrative on who you show up to be? So lots of different ways of Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: measuring. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Like that idea of return on experience because I I think that we don't put enough effort towards testing. You know, I think a lot of times when it comes, especially the nonprofit sector, I think a lot of times we're hesitant to test because we feel like it's an investment that might not pay off. But the return on experience is always a payoff, right? We know what doesn't work, even if if it didn't work. roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, tying it back to just being human, right? I think at the end of the day, having a human voice, having a human experience, especially in today's world, is really what matters. You know, and I think this is what we always shoot for, when trying to solve problems. Like, how's it tying back to everything and what's that human component, what's that emotional component? happening. there's just such strength in all of that. And then that parlays into trust. And I think once you establish all of these elements, and you're a brand, right? You're a nonprofit brand that has trust, you basically can kind of like, you know, open up your coffers and let some money flow in. Like a lot of people all understand that that's gonna happen because we know you we know who you are, we know you stand for, and we trust that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. That i it requires presence before trust, right? roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. okay, so tell me what's the neatest c transformation that you've seen in a nonprofit as you've been working with their branding? Or tell me just roger starkweather: my gosh. If Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: to give me an example of like some amazing things that you've experienced. roger starkweather: I I think just because I'm in Seattle and and and and and our other half of our world is in Philadelphia. Steven lives in Philadelphia, so we've got this opportunity to have very different cultures. we've been very fortunate to have worked with Seattle Sports Commission. And and and Seattle Sports Commission was responsible for getting FIFA here to Seattle, the World Cup. And so by And they knew this was coming, so we got in early and we had this opportunity to redo their look and feel, their messaging, their websites, how they show up. And this was a non profit organization that in the background just it was responsible for bringing sports to the community. But on a world stage, we we had some fun. We had some fun. So Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: Seattle Sports Commission was probably one of the greatest little opportunities we had to work together with a great team, so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I I know I think I think just that example To be competitive at a global, at a global stage as a nonprofit that's going to represent such such an amazing opportunity, you really do have to compete with that look and feel because you're gonna have other people who have invested in this maybe longer, but need to, you know, you need to be right there and playing with the big dogs. roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and and it can go the other way too. I mean, I think one of the things that is unique about a new brand and how Stephen and I work because of our history together, is that we kind of apply a little bit of retail therapy into the strategies when it comes to non profits. Like we're still out there, you're out selling a service, right? And what does that service equ equate to and what's that competition look like? How how does it compare to a similar organization? and and and nonprofits are often don't think about that. They're they're focused busy doing the work, which is exactly what they should be doing, right? But pulling up, pulling back a little bit sometimes really helps get a different perspective. And so we bring a different perspective sometimes on how nonprofits can show up. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, because the competition is different, right, in nonprofits. Not really competition in that like they're competing to do different good than they might be competing to do different good, but the but the competition is still there in that at some point we have to compete for people's attention, right? roger starkweather: Ex exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: was w that was one of them and and on the on on the opposite side, you know, we've been able to kinda help start up non profits really establish themselves in the marketplace, right? So they have someone has an idea and they're just forming and there's no money and maybe they have one person on their board at this point, you know, but they still have a vision. And so how do we take that vision and and create something tangible and emotional? And and so again we've been really fortunate to work with small and large groups. It's just, you know Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. I think it's what makes nonprofit consulting so fun is that you get all kinds of experiences. What do you think the biggest challenge is that most nonprofits have when it comes to marketing and branding? roger starkweather: Not understanding how to build a budget around it. So I think that people go into the budget cycle. obviously there's operations and then there's you know all the other things that really kind of are first and foremost. are they following the three year strategic strategic plan in a way that branding and marketing has its own pillar? And again, that pillar has to stand up against a budget. that can appropriate that. And so we often help people kind of construct budgets. There's no general rule of thumb because anyone could throw a ton of money at marketing and branding and not have the results that you need, right? So you have to be very careful and strategic on how that budget is built. But I think also one of the things that Steven and I both bring to this to this organization is the fact that we were both working for SCORE, you know, making sure that startups and businesses have the tools to create a business and tying those business objectives to your brand and marketing objectives, they have to live in the same DNA, right? They have to have that continuity. and and so yeah, one of the challenges, most challenges is helping people build a budget, making sure that they've got a budget for that. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. And if they okay, so if they let's say they build a budget for marketing and branding, where is the first place they should start? What should they do first? roger starkweather: It's it again, back to the foundation side of things, right? So if you come to us and you've got a brand system, you've got brand guidelines and you're pretty much baked into who you are and why you exist and the colors and the looks and the feels, great. What are you doing to execute on that? So the question becomes how can we help you at that stage? versus someone who needs to start a we call it an evolution or a revolution, right? So if you come to me and you're in a brand evolution state point, we're gonna assess where that is and help you pick those things that are strong, where the gaps might be, and how we can move forward into a a a larger marketing strategy versus a a revolution where you're just starting from scratch. Right. And and maybe may we we've had lots of clients who've had a legacy brand ID right it's been around for twenty years. And it's just time to keep up with the judges and ch make and change and keep it modern and keep it fresh. So there's lots of ways but the flow is kind of the same. Like it just depends where you are in that in that race. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, kinda where you start is gonna depend on what the next step is, but but you're gonna go the same direction. roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and and again a general rule of thumb for a lot of people and consultants in this world is like where are you two years from now? And let's work back. You know, how does how how how does that relate to where you are today? Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Do you feel like nonprofits I mean the the nonprofits that you work with, do you feel like they're investing time in marketing and branding? maybe enough time in marketing and branding? Or do you feel like it's just really neglected? roger starkweather: No, otherwise we wouldn't be in business. So it literally it Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: it's it's that chicken and egg. It's that chicken and egg conversation. there are scopes of work that we put together that last just a couple weeks. There's scopes of work that we put together that last six months. We've got ongoing retaining clients that keep us on board to help us do a longer work. And we have found that having a fractional kind of like offer allows people to bring us in as a part of their team. Like they only they they only need us for like a month or two to help with the big strategy and to help them execute on things that are outside of their p their their their windows where they're not really seeing the forest through the trees. And so there's lots of different ways we can kind of come in and come out. And I think that's what I really love about the structure and how we're working. Like in in in in coming from the agency space, both Steve and I recognize that it doesn't have to be one and all. Like we you have to be everything. We will work with you if we have to get into an SEO or a PR execution. Like marketing can take you so far. But those journey touch points again, is your SEO working for you? Is your PR something that's needed because you've got a campaign scenario? Like what's happening in these different moments for you as an organization? Because as we know all non profits have a cycle. They have their annual fundraising, right? They have their mini fundraising. They have temple moments throughout the year they're where they're excited to be in the community and do things. And so it really depends on where everyone Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: is, you know. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. Do you think there's a what are some triggers that help nonprofits be like, we should maybe think about marketing and in in branding? What are those triggers? roger starkweather: Yeah, what are those triggers? Good question. I th I think for a lot of the work that we've been h helping with it it's they're feeling overwhelmed and lost. Like they literally don't have a a marketing team in place to execute on this strategy. Right. And so they're figuring out ways to skinny the cat, right, in terms of can I do it for five dollars versus fifty dollars kind of thing, or do I have to hire that additional person to make sure that this strategy that we've developed and again if you're working with a strategist that's three to five years strategy plan Within that should be a branding and marketing element, right? How does it move the engine forward with all the other things that you're thinking about? so I think when there's there's there's just an awareness that there's a lack in in in in where you need to get to. And again, for the most part, branding and marketing is an awareness element. Like in if you act Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: and if you're the executive director or CEO. And you're saying, Well, do people really know who we are and what we're doing? Is it aware i are we a being a are we showing up, you know, in a way that that Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. roger starkweather: is needed? And these are just annual questions that you should be talking about within your organization. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: I love that you mentioned that. You know, in fundraising, that's what I always tell people about fundraising. Like there's a donor journey, right? And awareness roger starkweather: Mm-hmm. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: is the first step. Do you have people coming into your organization? And then once they come in, what are they learning about you? Are you being intentional about what you're sharing with them? You know, because until until we know what they know and we we have to help supply that, we can't necessarily move them to the next stages of engagement. Which would be that relationship that's going to lead to volunteerism and donations and and you know, all of these things. And so, you know, awareness is step one and and go ahead. roger starkweather: One Yeah, well it no go and no, I I was just you just brought up a a a a project we're working on right now. So it's an internal campaign. We're not even going outside to the world, but this organization is has so many people that w the way that they're organized, they fight amongst themselves. And so we were brought in to actually settle this internal argument between this group and this group. And and and we were b and we do it in a way of workshopping and surveys and and and having a third party come and kind of solve what they cannot solve themselves internally. So again, you know, we're it was interesting because it doesn't always have to be external, outward facing to the community. Maybe your brand is having a challenge internally. You know, and and and if if you're a large enough organization, you've got disparate silos and groups that make the whole engine run. This is where we are with this group. I mean, we're literally setting them all down and whacking them on the head with findings and saying, Hey you guys, here's your problem. This is where you're arguing and and in emotionally they all know that, but intellectually having another party kind of state that solved everything. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, that actually made me think when you said that, you know, I'm seeing a lot of nonprofits merge. And so I think like as a nonprofit merges, this is perfect internal, you know, internal marketing is a a huge part of that because they had strong identities as their unique agencies. And now as they create the new one, it needs to have something new. I you know, I think about getting married, and when you get married, like if you have If you each have houses, I think the easiest solution is to create something new, right? Because if we're in if we're in my house, then like there's some things that are I'm pretty pretty particular about. And if we're in his house, same thing. But when we created a new house, then we had to create that all together. And so I think I think that that's going to be something really interesting that you'll s you may experience more of as we go forward because. I do see a lot more nonprofits kind of merging as the economy changes and as support changes. And so I love that you mentioned the internal internal marketing. roger starkweather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're they're they're they're a customer as well, you know, and I think that you have to think about that too. So the resources, the volunteers, and and in in the people that work on the ground, also have to have that same alignment and clarity on who you are and why you exist. So again it it all it all it all circles back to what we talked about earlier. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah. And being and being clear on that. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for this interesting conversation. Okay. It one more question before we get to like where people can find you. roger starkweather: Yes. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: What is one thing you want all nonprofits to think about when it comes to marketing and roger starkweather: There. Ask yourself the question, how am I showing up today? And what impact are we making? Just ask ask ask ask yourself, your organization, how am I showing up today? And if it feels like you're doing the right thing that aligns to everything that you're working on, keep on going. Right? But if there's a question or if there's a hesitation or an unknown, maybe that's a chance to reach out to and talk to someone. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah. And we're always blind to our blind spots, right? roger starkweather: You just get busy and the world has a lot of noise and AI hasn't helped. You know? And that's a whole nother subject we can talk about. But but yeah, no, there's a lot of noise and I think that in life when you get quiet and you ask yourself the questions that you would normally forget to ask, you come up with some interesting opportunities and synchronicities. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, yeah, I I appreciate that. So thank you so much. Okay, so where can people find you if they want to find you? roger starkweather: Yes, we are on LinkedIn, obviously, as everyone else in this world is, but a newbrand.co, our website. We are also part of Branders magazine. Steven is a an author and contributor to that. We've got our newsletter. and so lots of ways of keeping in touch on how we think. We do a lot of kind of like we're always open for a presentation. So if you need us virtually or if you need us in in a live format. Steve and I are both excited and always willing to get on stage and and and to share best practices. So that's the greatest thing. And I think at at the end of all of this, we want to encourage people just to have a conversation with us. It it's complimentary. It doesn't cost anybody anything just to sit here and talk about where you are today and where you might think you need to go. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, I love that. I I hope that my listeners take advantage of that. And you know, it's always nice to have a a different perspective than what you're familiar with. So roger starkweather: Yeah. And and and emails are real simple. Roger at a newbrand dot C O Steven at a newbrand dot C O. And we've got a whole team behind us that makes all the magic happen as well, so Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Perfect. Thank you so much for joining today, Roger. roger starkweather: I appreciate that. Happy Friday, everyone. Sarah Barton | Nonprofit411: Yeah, to my listeners, thank you for tuning in for this conversation. If you enjoyed the conversation, I encourage you to like and subscribe so that we show up in your newsfeed each week. And I hope you have a great week and you'll tune in for another conversation next week. Bye. roger starkweather: Keep up the