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The Startup Turning Swamps Into Fashion Gold · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You are now listening to the EU Startups Podcast.
• 0:13
  Speaker 0: Hello and welcome, to this episode of The EU Startup's podcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 0: as always I'm your host, Dan Cengarcia with the newsletter here at EU startups today.
• 0:21
  Speaker 0: a child was Julian.
• 0:22
  Speaker 0: he is the CEO and co-founder Of the sustainability company Ponda.
• 0:26
  Speaker 0: ponda develops This insulation material called bio puff.
• 0:30
  Speaker 0: that's material can be applied To the fashion industry and put into coats and such.
• 0:35
  Speaker 0: It can also be potentially in the future applied to the industrial sector, or really anything that requires installation.
• 0:43
  Speaker 0: Biopuff is a biomaterial and it's applied through sustainable farming.
• 0:49
  Speaker 0: It's developed in coordination with farmers who are interested not only protecting wetlands but regenerating them as well.
• 0:57
  Speaker 0: Pondo raised two million seed back in November of twenty-five.
• 1:01
  Speaker 0: more recently just last month opened up their crowdfunding.
• 1:04
  Speaker 0: So, it's an interesting company.
• 1:06
  Speaker 0: They're getting started and they are doing very not only interesting work but important work in the global sustainable practice.
• 1:16
  Speaker 0: so I hope you look forward to that!
• 1:17
  Speaker 0: Without further ado... The episode.
• 1:21
  Speaker 0: Hello Julian and welcome to the You Starves podcast.
• 1:24
  Speaker 0: It is a pleasure have on.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Hi there David, it is lovely to be here.
• 1:29
  Speaker 0: Yes i am looking for todays conversation We haven't really had on the podcast.
• 1:35
  Speaker 0: I feel like i say this every week, which is a good news for us that now we're kind of so varied.
• 1:39
  Speaker 0: but you know it's a company That does something that I don't think is really that common.
• 1:44
  Speaker 0: It's an approach and a focus as in that comment.
• 1:47
  Speaker 0: So without giving anything else away how about let?
• 1:49
  Speaker 0: You just present yourself in the company.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: sure My name is Julian Ellis Brown.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I'm one of the co-founders and CEO at ponder where buy materials company based in Bristol in the UK and we're developing new novel materials made out of plants grown on regenerated wetlands.
• 2:10
  Speaker 0: Great, okay.
• 2:11
  Speaker 0: well then let's get right into it.
• 2:13
  Speaker 0: I want to hear kind of your beginning.
• 2:16
  Speaker 0: so what first pulled you in this space?
• 2:19
  Speaker 0: because from It's varied.
• 2:22
  Speaker 0: There is a mechanical engineering degree in there, and it has focus on sustainable materials.
• 2:27
  Speaker 0: so obviously you already had kind of an inkling towards what you do now but I want to hear about that.
• 2:34
  Speaker 0: started all this for you?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely!
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: So as he said my background was in Engineering.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: always have interest how things work or are made and innovation masters where I learned about design.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: What are the implications of how materials were made, their effects on the planet?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: That really got me interested in new materials, new supply chains sustainability... And it brought us along with my co-founders to our first question which is how might we or Is it possible to create a material supply chain that's inherently healing the planet?
• 3:30
  Speaker 0: Okay, well.
• 3:30
  Speaker 0: That last line I think has perfect.
• 3:33
  Speaker 0: pass over to my next question.
• 3:34
  Speaker 0: and yeah originally you came onto my radar with your seed round Which was last year.
• 3:41
  Speaker 0: Yeah November of Last Year right And thats why i first heard about You.
• 3:45
  Speaker 0: I thought oh this interesting.
• 3:47
  Speaker 0: Then The Topic Of Wetlands.
• 3:48
  Speaker 0: It' something I want To Talk About With You Because you know, for breeders and listeners who don't really know exactly and understand exactly what they do.
• 3:56
  Speaker 0: And I kind of include myself among them because even though i've read PR materials and done research this episode... ...I'm still a bit- You know?
• 4:03
  Speaker 0: I don't have a mechanical engineering degree.
• 4:05
  Speaker 0: so maybe we can explain why wetlands is such an important focus in this topic of not only good for the environment but regeneration of the environment.
• 4:15
  Speaker 0: Why that plays into us.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely!
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I guess if we think about how materials are made today, really what we're talking about our extractive supply chain.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So if you think of that how textiles and manufacturers were either extracting resources from the land by degrading it in growing plants which would then extracting fibers form or obviously where created them at the vast majority?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: extracting oil from under the ground and transforming them into these polymers that then become polyester, polyamide in all of this synthetic materials to make up our clothes.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: And so really what we're interested is... What are some of the most powerfully healing places on our planet?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: That's what led us to wetlands.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Wetlands cover just three percent of our land area, but they are actually the largest land-based store of carbon.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: They store twice as much carbon at all of the trees in the world combined and about a tenths of that area.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: There's such key biodiversity assets.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: over fifty per cent species from around the world rely on them some way for their survival And also have these other amazing ecosystem services flood resistance, drought resistant.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: So really the list kind of goes on and on And so we're interested in how can we leverage these amazing spaces to do more?
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: To better expand them?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Sadly over the past couple hundred years hundreds millions of these wetlands have been drained or damaged.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Our mission is okay.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: How can we regenerate those spaces new value to them so that we can encourage farmers who have historically drained vast areas of wetlands, to actually rewet them.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Grow a plant which we then purchase and transform into high-value
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: materials.".
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That's really where the value of wetland has inspired us.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: from the beginning is we've developed technology which allows us to extract fibers from plants, grown on regenerated wetlands and transform them into high-quality textiles for the fashion industry.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: that starts with a material called biopuff.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Which it's a plant based insulation used to replace goose down or synthetic insulations as well And so that enables us to connect these amazing environments and the regeneration of them To the production of healthier materials.
• 7:10
  Speaker 0: Okay, well and I want to dig into a lot of different parts there about working with landowners and farmers in the fashion fields.
• 7:17
  Speaker 0: But just something that came to me at this moment is thinking how globally adaptable it's.
• 7:22
  Speaker 0: so you know we're talking about what Lance was saying.
• 7:25
  Speaker 0: all these procedures are applicable but if they must be some kind of location based factor right or do feel like material application can be scaled global?
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: there's hundreds of millions hectares of wetlands around the world.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: But they do tend to sort-of hub in hot spots and certain areas, so you get temperate wetlands from people which are across northern Europe North America And then tropical ones as well.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: once what she might find more in places like Indonesia Our supply chain is already fairly global.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: We're sourcing from all across Europe, into North America as well.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and so we really see this is a kind of global supply chain.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: it's a global problem fundamentally that we've been draining these peatlands wetlands all over the world.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: governments farmers are desperate to look for solutions.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: okay how can we regenerate?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: But how can we still make sure that we could earn an income from these lands which were previously being farmed?
• 8:42
  Speaker 0: And this topic here of global, obviously fashion is a global industry.
• 8:46
  Speaker 0: It's something you can disrupt at the global scale and automatically I think anybody listening to us as good start thinking about fast-fashion.
• 9:02
  Speaker 0: Or is it just reserved more to premium brands?
• 9:05
  Speaker 0: Brands that want an alternative kind of echo label, what they're doing.
• 9:09
  Speaker 0: Do you see this as being able say no we can do the whole system
• 9:13
  Speaker 0: everything?".
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah!
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: We really want Biopuff and Regenerative Materials in general To be accessible for the masses And driving our price point to one which is really competitive against existing incumbents so that we can have the impact, which frankly need too as well.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: And fundamentally we want to be offering a material are better than these existing ones.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: We want a material that is warmer, then synthetics and it's more breathable as well.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: These are the targets which we're looking to really offer within Biopuff And any future materials will be developed.
• 10:14
  Speaker 0: I saw too you've partnered with Bransett.
• 10:19
  Speaker 0: I'm not a big fashion guy, but you know even i recognize the few of them.
• 10:23
  Speaker 0: Estelle McCarthy she being parley.
• 10:27
  Speaker 0: so you've engaged with these brands and they engage with Biopuff.
• 10:30
  Speaker 0: what has that kind of shown?
• 10:32
  Speaker 0: You about What These Fashion Brands really care About in terms Of The product That you're Offering And also how They want to Engage With A new Company?
• 10:40
  Speaker 0: a star
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: yeah i think there's.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: There's Been like a Few Waves of of movement, materials within the fashion space.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: The first one was sort-of a shift to recycled moving away from you know virgin materials towards like recycled polyester.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and but now there's seen... There is a new wave which it's like real demand to move toward what called next gen materials.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: these next gen textiles upon that are material.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: biopath is one of them because they're able to offer vastly improved environmental credentials.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: They have full traceability as well, we were able tell exactly where their fibres come from that make up these textiles going into the clothes and because they're able to perform, offer that value uplift for their customers as well.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Those three things is what's leading a real wave alongside a whole bunch of legislation coming through places like the EU... ...to encourage new existing fashion brands to shift over these materials.
• 12:08
  Speaker 0: And you mentioned, obviously the EU want to promote these kind of materials.
• 12:13
  Speaker 0: Do feel that's... That kind of want is also available globally or it a European push?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I think we have customers all over the world and so there are global interests across the board in innovation.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: how can I have an edge on my competitor?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: How can i offer something new and different to my
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: customer?".
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: And, that's why there is always interest in the niche.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: The EU really wants leading perhaps from regulatory side of things.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: since they're bringing this new eco design legislation every garment has a product passport associated with it.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: That's really going to shine a light on why it is so important that materials like Biopark use instead of the alternatives, simply from the fact we know where our material comes.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: And this isn't the case for the vast majority of materials which are used in this industry today.
• 13:24
  Speaker 0: You've spoken about your partnership level and one side of company but another side I find... Very interesting and even unique is how you've developed it alongside kind of the supply chain.
• 13:36
  Speaker 0: So, you know along side the landowners alongside the farmers And I'd hazard to say that's not very common in this startup To kind have had that conversation at the very beginning and to make sure That the company works with really the ones that are kind of providing The material on providing the product forward.
• 13:57
  Speaker 0: so Talk to us a little bit about that, developing your company with these people in mind and the long side.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely we've had to solve lots of different kinds problems.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: so wetland farming supply chains don't exist really as an established industry.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: So we have sort build it from ground up.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: It's going farmers working on them.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: rewetting their land and growing wetland crops might be a benefit to them.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: And that's about creating really compelling economic vision, model for them showing why is actually the sensible financial decision in order to do this?
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: It could be for a bunch of reasons but big one as we have more extreme weather events year on year within across world things like flooded lands in agriculture or extreme drought is becoming more and more likely.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: But when you rewet these environments, actually building that resilience into them they become not only individual plot of land but the land around becomes resilient to weather events.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: so there's a sensible decision from an economic perspective From just a regular one if you would.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: to just consider it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: This is still another crop like I grow anything else obviously slightly different as its on a marsh rather than On an honor typical farmland and so we've now built the world's largest supply chain of this crop that we grow bull rushes around the World.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And all of that is then sort.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: It's collected and processed in our facility, in Bristol.
• 15:53
  Speaker 0: So is this process of rewetting or farming?
• 15:57
  Speaker 0: Is that something kind of difficult for the farmers to take on... ...or is it a practice and something they can easily adapt into what their already growing?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: More often we hear about this sort-of term as Mosaic Model of Farming where you have different types of farming happening, or within a fairly local region off each other.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: And that's where we see our model fitting in most effectively as well.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: It is not a massive investment and often it can be quite simple to do.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Over the past three hundred years We have built an enormous infrastructure draining water out of our farmland, drainage ditches pumps.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: We have you know water boards all across the UK and Europe that manage how we extract waters from spaces because quite often um...that is where we're intensively farming land.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: so what it's more about is reversing some of those things that we're doing already to bring that water table up rather than introducing some massive infrastructural change, it might be turning off the pump or filling in a drainage ditch.
• 17:28
  Speaker 0: I have to imagine that these farmers are very excited at the idea of crop and material going their overall livelihood, and not just that one crop.
• 17:41
  Speaker 0: There's a... In one of your press weeks you passed on there was Will Barnard I think?
• 17:47
  Speaker 0: And he is a farmer who was quoted in the article talking about this.
• 17:50
  Speaker 0: So have to imagine it as usually very big plus for them when considering about engaging with him.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Definitely!
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: A lot of farmers we work with started working on piloting us because they've had land which has flooded year and year out.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: They're planting it, seeding in September... And then over the winter their losing the crop as the lands flooding.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: We offer a immediate remedy to that through our kind of solution.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: so I think is really an exciting option for farmers.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: That's why our business model is too pronged able to offer this kind of like wetland alternative solution for farmers.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: We're able to offered these kinds new innovative materials in the fashion industry and by wedding.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: those two things together, if we can crank up the use of Biopuff within fashion and textiles... ...we can leverage a huge amount of environmental and social benefit on the agricultural side as
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: well.".
• 19:02
  Speaker 0: does Biopuff go into?
• 19:05
  Speaker 0: And jackets, sheets.
• 19:08
  Speaker 0: What's kind of the practical application to where Biopuffs might be seen by the general
• 19:14
  Speaker 0: public?".
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah definitely so.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: biopuff is an insulation material like a wadding or going to jackets and really anything that you need some sort of padding in it.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: A hundred and forty five billion square meters of wadding is made each year globally.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: It's an enormous market if you think about everything that might need to be insulated, every thing they may have a wading material in it.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: We're starting with apparel.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: That's our initial focus.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: But we really see like the whole industry beyond this If you look at materials or automotive Things like soft toys, things of that.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Huge possibilities with markets
• 20:06
  Speaker 0: Right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 0: yeah That's kind where I was going.
• 20:08
  Speaker 0: so there is an industrial application as well to this if developed in the right way.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah definitely and There are trials we've done not just within apparel but also working with interiors companies.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: companies would make pillows and duvets, things like that.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And there's real potential for material-like biopuff to disrupt the market on a very large scale.
• 20:43
  Speaker 0: Okay well you know it is as I said before then You came across my desk because of your two million raise.
• 20:51
  Speaker 0: now so want to hear about Because than more recently in just in April which i think is when us?
• 20:56
  Speaker 0: When i reached out say let's do an episode crowdfunding site.
• 21:01
  Speaker 0: And I want to hear about the why, you know?
• 21:04
  Speaker 0: You've gone through institutional investors.
• 21:06
  Speaker 0: there was interest...you raised two million and then you turned into crowdfunding which is interesting because i feel like most SESU start with crowd funding and then go to institutional investors.
• 21:16
  Speaker 0: so why isn't that made this change now?
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: yeah absolutely well.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: for us we realized what were building at ponder you know, greater than just to kind of be-to-be materials company.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: We're also building a product that's going to be used by individuals, by consumers within Biopub as well and we are also building community with people who incredibly passionate about wetland farming were asked about things like a crowdfund historically.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So we've always had it in the kind of backfire minds, but recently we have also seen new opportunities within our business model.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: so beyond just the seas round that we raised last year... We're seeing new opportunities come up and one is to buy products for processing not to say the word seed too much, are they actual seeds from the plants which is a byproduct of our process.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: We developed technology to encapsulate those seeds and then sell them back into the farming supply chain that we're scaling as well And when there were targets to regenerate tens of millions hectares wetlands This could be a real opportunity for us to really crank up our growth and revenue as well.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: So what we also identified is, if this was another piece of the development that were going through I'm gonna need some funding to help develop it aswell And so We thought would do top-up on seed round.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: It's in same terms as these institutional investors came into Really unique opportunities For an individual Retail investors to come and join the round And it's going to enable us to sort of accelerate some of the growth points outside Of our regular market entry as well.
• 23:39
  Speaker 0: Okay, and do you have a cap on there?
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: So The kind of additional Our initial sort of target that we've set on the platform including some of the private money, which we've raised is about one point four.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Probably go as far as one point six maybe one point seven but yeah that's the initial target.
• 24:08
  Speaker 0: okay.
• 24:08
  Speaker 0: well on this topic then a funding.
• 24:11
  Speaker 0: I always find it interesting because we're obviously covering European startup ecosystem, which includes a lot of different companies.
• 24:21
  Speaker 0: But I try and do a little bit of background research before chatting with people on here And just kind of look at what the funding has looked like for their sector?
• 24:30
  Speaker 0: This is loose because it's always hard to say this company is in exact same sector as this company.
• 24:35
  Speaker 0: but from What i saw...I found around eighty seven million.
• 24:39
  Speaker 0: that was moving this year in twenty six for sustainable materials bio-materials circular materials low carbon alternatives, what have you.
• 24:50
  Speaker 0: So I was kind of wondering to hear a little about how you see Ponda fitting in this ecosystem?
• 24:54
  Speaker 0: Do feel that it has a unique offering?
• 24:57
  Speaker 0: do find out there are competitors.
• 24:59
  Speaker 0: is there a wish to... How do you see the company existing within Europe and the startup ecosystem?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: yeah i think we.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: We do see ourselves within that space of materials next-gen materials when We are very unique in the fact that no one else has decided to go out, build a wetland supply chain developing new technology around material and bring it into market.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: In the way we have.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: but there are other competencies as other technologies out there most of them more incumbent But they're some sort novel plant based materials insulations.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: But we have been able to differentiate ourselves as a brand and, I'd say technology from many of those alternatives.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Interesting that you mentioned the number out-of-the-money private investment going into.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: this is interesting because beneficiaries of quite a bit like public funding as well on top of private funding, which has been fantastic both in the kind of agricultural side but also on this technological side.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And currently part two ten million pounds Horizon Europe projects is focused on.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: how do we build markets around regenerating these wetland environments?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: ponder is so well-placed in those environments to support that as well.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Sure,
• 26:42
  Speaker 0: sure.
• 26:43
  Speaker 0: Well I think we're coming naturally to the end here towards what i want to chat about and What?
• 26:48
  Speaker 0: I wanted kind of hear you explain And I guess my final question Here Is a very basic Question really.
• 26:56
  Speaker 0: but where You see ponder going in the next five years, is it expanding?
• 27:00
  Speaker 0: The list of farmers that you have across a world.
• 27:03
  Speaker 0: Is it more fashion partnerships or funding?
• 27:07
  Speaker 0: where do you see Pondam Five Years if everything goes to plan?
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah absolutely what ponda In five years is Going to be sourcing from tens of thousands of hectares of wetlands creating tens of thousands, tons of CO₂ being reduced each year from our kind of wetland interventions.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Huge amounts of biodiversity thriving as a result of this.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: and as a company we want Biopath & Ponder to be established innovators, but a trusted brand when it comes to performing materials within the fashion and apparel space.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And so we're going to be expanding starting this year with some really significant initial partnerships the millions and millions of jackets within, within the next five years.
• 28:30
  Speaker 0: Well I hope to see it too!
• 28:32
  Speaker 0: I hope be looking for my new winter jacket filled with bio-puff on a label.
• 28:37
  Speaker 0: Yeah It's
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: gonna happen.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Good
• 28:39
  Speaker 0: good well.
• 28:41
  Speaker 0: thank you very much Julian.
• 28:43
  Speaker 0: i look forward to hearing more about Pondayi.
• 28:46
  Speaker 0: think that is really well placed.
• 28:48
  Speaker 0: like, twenty-twenty I think is a founding year if my notes are right.
• 28:52
  Speaker 0: You know you're young and finding good funding or finding a basis for it And from what I see too the Young Founding Team which actually quite common when it comes to sustainability initiatives.
• 29:03
  Speaker 0: so that's always great to see these kinds of things move forward successfully.
• 29:07
  Speaker 0: So thank you very much Julianne for coming on our podcast.
• 29:09
  Speaker 0: It has been pleasure.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Thankyou very much.
• 29:12
  Speaker 0: Okay well we'll keep in touch.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Keep In Touch Bye
• 29:16
  Speaker 0: bye.