Latest / The Prompt / Ep. 545 | How marketing-sales alignment and smart segmentation drive B2B growth

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Ep. 545 | How marketing-sales alignment and smart segmentation drive B2B growth · The Prompt

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  This is on base your one stop shop for solving your most
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  pressing B2B go to market challenges.
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  Each week, host Chris Moody and Paul Gibson talk to sales and
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  marketing leaders to get you in depth insights and creative
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  strategies to set your revenue teams up for success.
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  Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Home Based podcast.
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  I'm your host, Chris Moody, and today we're thrilled to have
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  Brian Bowles with us to discuss growth driven campaigns.
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  Brian, thanks for joining us today and welcome to the show.
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  Thank you so much for having me. Very exciting to be here and
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  appreciate your time today as well.
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  Yeah, well, let's jump right in. We love to start with a question
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  about your journey. We were just talking before you
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  hit the record button about some previous roles you've had.
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  But tell us a little bit about what led you to what you're
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  doing today. Yeah, no thank you.
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  You know pretty interesting journey to land as a marketing
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  leader in the company I met today.
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  You know, our company GHX is a healthcare technology company
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  and I've worked in healthcare for over 20 years.
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  Actually my first role was, is a decision support analyst in a
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  hospital in rural West Virginia where I grew up from there
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  another healthcare system down in South Florida that led me to
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  my first technology role as a product manager actually around
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  clinical benchmarking and working with physicians and the
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  the quality improvement process in healthcare.
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  You know, from there I've went into sales role, I've been a
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  solution engineer. I kind of fell backwards into
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  marketing, I think because I was pretty good at sales
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  presentations, at building PowerPoints and a lot of that
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  work early in my career. But being able to launch new
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  products and really walk in the shoes of a seller, I think gave
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  me a, a real appreciation for being a marketing leader,
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  working with sales teams and customer success teams that are
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  in the trenches every day. And I think that's what
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  perspective you've got to have as a marketing leader is really
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  walk in the seller's shoes, not just a buyer journey, but the
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  seller journey. I think that gave me some good
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  experiences. I kind of fell backwards into
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  marketing and learned quite a bit on the job over the last
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  several years. But I've always had really great
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  supportive teams to try and bring our work to life.
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  But yeah, very interesting from more of a technical user, the
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  product and then into sales ultimately in the market.
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  I love that. I love the falling into
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  marketing. That's a great visual for us to
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  think about when we think about alignment and some of that
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  walking in the seller's shoes. Why is marketing and commercial
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  alignment the key to unlocking growth with existing customers?
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  You know, I think companies that I've worked for thus far have
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  been relatively fortunate to have a relatively established
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  customer. We've got a core product.
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  A lot of organizations or customers have it.
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  They've had it for a while. It's a pretty mature business
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  and now you're trying to position other auxiliary tools
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  around your core platform or your core product for that
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  upsell cross sell dynamic that we're always trying to grow
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  within those existing accounts. And as a marketing leader, when
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  we're launching campaigns or building content, it's not
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  one-size-fits-all. You really have to understand
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  your pipeline and where the needs are within the business so
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  that you're focusing your lead generation efforts in the right
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  place. You're not solely focused on
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  sort of your big brand style marketing that is great for
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  feeling good, but doesn't always trickle down into actionable
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  leads or actions that commercial sellers can leverage or or
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  utilize or even care about because the sales teams, they
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  don't care about our click through rate.
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  What they care about is understanding how their accounts
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  are engaging with our content and assets across all of our
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  channels and how did they use that to inform their
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  conversations with those accounts And having context or
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  recognizing there is context for many of these accounts that are
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  established that you're trying to go into just because they
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  look like a lead. There's a lot going on in those
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  accounts that you've got to be aligned with those working with
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  those accounts every day to ensure that you understand in
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  marketing the context that they're working within and not
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  expecting them to take unnatural actions when the renewal is next
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  month or there's a problem or there's something else going on.
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  And aligning your segmentation and understanding that I think
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  is really critical to sales, understanding them what
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  marketing is trying to do and us being conscious that there's a
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  lot going on in the market that we have to be mindful of when we
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  start passing leads over through all of our campaigns.
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  So if you understand your segmentation, you understand
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  your pipeline needs and then you understand the context of what's
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  happening within those segments of accounts, that makes the
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  communication back and forth. And what is the action between
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  teams much more relevant to the end user, which is our sellers,
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  right, our audiences, our sellers and our account
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  management teams. So they have better account
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  intelligence as they engage in conversations like quarterly
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  business reviews or other types of interactions that are already
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  out there because they're established accounts.
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  You have to be mindful of what's already going on with it.
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  And and Brian, you said sales trying to understand what
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  marketing is trying to do. That makes me think about the
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  motivation. And for sellers, I think they're
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  trying to hit their number. They're trying to make money.
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  Literally money drives the behavior for marketing.
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  And many times I don't think some teams are exceptional at
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  taking commercial goals, mapping that into the marketing
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  behaviors. So I'd love to to hear where you
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  think companies lose momentum in that process of turning
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  commercial goals into marketing action and how you've worked to
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  fix that. I've had a couple different
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  experiences in that way, really driven partly by organizational
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  structure that you are working within.
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  I've been in a relatively large publicly traded organization
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  that was very P&L or business unit oriented.
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  And in that case, everybody's trying to make their number and
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  trying to spell the loudest for support and resources because
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  they're the most important to their own individual success,
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  whether that's a sales team region or APL leader or a given
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  product line where there's not good cross functional alignment
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  about what is most important to to be able to focus resources.
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  And in that case, you end up trying to please everyone a
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  little bit and you don't do a very good job going deep enough
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  or you start ignoring parts of the business that actually might
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  need the help to make the overall number.
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  So you know, you really got to be able to balance the
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  individual sort of product line needs with the sort of overall
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  how do we get to the number of organizational.
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  I think being able to have relationships with folks like
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  product marketers aligned with product teams and sales teams is
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  really important to have that conversation between the two
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  about where the needs are and what pipeline do we have to
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  drive or what kind of engagement you need to create.
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  But if you're in a situation where you're dealing with who
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  yells the loudest, where it falls down is they think the
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  answer is we need a webinar, we need a widget to do a thing
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  because it feels great to get 300 people to come to your
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  webinar. That's great, feels awesome.
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  But is that really the right sustainable engine that you can
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  create behind the message or the product line that you're trying
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  to drive? It's not a do a webinar because
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  that is instant gratification. You've got to be able to take a
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  a longer term approach that I think engages certain accounts
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  over time so that they get to know you more, particularly if
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  you're trying to reach different buyers or influencers within an
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  account that you're already established that don't need.
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  So I think being able to be embedded really with those
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  products and sales teams to understand where those goals are
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  and be proactive with them about here's how we engage this
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  account segment because the answer isn't a tactic in point
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  in time, even though that's what's going to maybe calm a
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  group down feeling like they're getting serviced.
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  But if you can't build a sustainable program for them,
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  you're really going to struggle and continue to be in a
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  reactionary mode. And does that really get you the
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  result that you that you want long term?
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  Biggest question. Yeah, that's great stuff.
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  And Brian, earlier you were mentioning you've been in a lot
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  of organizations that had a great account base already, so a
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  great list of clients. I'm curious how you think
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  account based marketing and go to market strategies can be
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  fine-tuned to even strengthen those customer relationships and
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  drive renewal and expansion? Yeah.
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  If you have a core business that is established, that is
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  relatively mature, you have got to invest in the stability of
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  that customer base. Continue to build confidence,
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  continue to show cloud leadership, continue to 1st show
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  support of who you are because that is your core.
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  That is who you are as a company and how most of your customers
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  know. So you have to be who you are
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  within that with your messaging and content that you create or
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  like your established base. The trick is how do you get the
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  people in those organizations who don't know you at all or
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  barely know you or don't know you do all the other great stuff
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  that you do to get to know you And that is really comes back to
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  audience in account segmentation.
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  I mean, segmentation is the number one thing that you can
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  spend time on to get right within the buyer in the segment
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  that cares. Because at my company we have
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  1000 customers. Everybody says, oh, everybody
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  needs this, everybody should want it.
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  So it's 1000 customers, but that is incorrect almost every time.
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  You have to be really thoughtful about how you can, if you can,
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  carve up your segments to be much more narrow.
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  We've been taking a very narrow laser focus aligned with our
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  commercial team to run dedicated campaigns and messages towards
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  certain account sets and buyers within that because we have to
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  be who we are and show that connectivity of 1 + 1 + 3 so
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  they know where established. But also we have account teams
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  talking to these accounts all the time.
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  And so that's where we want to be aligned with them on which
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  accounts really matter. Now, maybe it's fifth, maybe
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  it's six, it might be 200. But the more narrow and focused
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  you can be, you can measure that engagement tightly and then you
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  can respond to it quickly in the field with your people that are
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  out there talking to those accounts because they're ready
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  for it. And you can pre plan that
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  activity and that that motion in advance.
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  Once that engagement spins up in those targeted accounts, the
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  people who are hungry for it take advantage of that right
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  away. But if you're spamming the world
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  of 1000 accounts and get all these great NQLS in this big
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  massive funnel, a lot of that's going to die on the bond because
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  it's not relevant engagement on what people need.
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  And it's not relevant to those who can pick up the phone, take
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  an action, get the meeting. Because the reality is people do
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  not raise their hand. Schedule a demo of what a
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  salesperson to call me filling out forms that does not happen
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  like we used to and we've ungated everything.
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  But because we can pre plan what we expect the last mile of our
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  campaigns to be with our cut line teams, commercial teams, we
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  have a much higher conversion rate even though we have a more
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  narrow focus. But I'd rather have relevant and
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  more narrow with higher conversion rate and spanning the
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  world and trying to, you know, cut through the noise and have a
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  lot of relevant things die on the drive and get lost in, get
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  lost in that. So you've got to be able to be
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  really intentional with your segments, particularly in your
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  established customer base. And then how are you going to
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  carry that forward once it's launched and you see that
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  activity start to happen? It's in thoughtful, narrow
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  focus, relevant. I was smiling with each of the
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  words and OK, I, I, I see where you're going with this.
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  We were talking before we hit record.
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  We've both been at events lately.
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  You had a big event, We had a big event in London.
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  We've had leadership off sites when we're trying to collaborate
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  and find the most thoughtful way to work together between digital
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  and field marketing to grow those existing accounts.
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  So it may hit on the narrow, the focus, the relevant what are
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  some of the best ways for us to be the most thoughtful
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  collaborative teams when we're trying to combine efforts to
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  expand the accounts we already have?
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  No, I think it is really two things.
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  Yes, we did have our big customer event last just this
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  past week, the GHX Summit. We have an annually over 600 of
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  our customer guests attending and it really is a great way to
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  show off all the great things you do as a company and beyond
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  just what your core is, it's not what most people know you as.
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  And that experience for customers can be really
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  impactful. Even, of course, like other
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  companies, we do a number of trade shows and events
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  throughout the year within the industry and capture a lot of
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  leads. I think being able to quickly
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  get the data that you capture to your frontline teams, again,
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  because of the context of what's happening, like at our customer
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  conference, there's a lot of this there.
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  There's a lot of conversations happening.
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  They want to see that engagement right away.
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  What did people do? Where did they go?
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  How did they engage? What was their experience in our
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  surveys to be able to follow up and build on the momentum it's
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  made. Where we have event activity,
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  it's you have that hot flash of interest, you've got to build on
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  that momentum right away and again and conscious of who's in
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  that list, what is happening within those accounts.
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  Our goal is to bring more account intelligence to the
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  field so they can go do what they know is right.
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  They know what's they're the closest to the customer.
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  They know what the best action to take.
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  We might create a lead out of these things, which is great.
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  Somebody says, yes, I want follow up.
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  Does that mean we got to go quickly to a demo?
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  Maybe, maybe not, but let's be mindful of who this person is in
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  the context of the relationship we're trying to build inside
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  that organization. Hopefully that helps us expand.
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  That's the whole goal with it. Whether it's digital campaigns
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  or field marketing events or conferences, that's really
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  important. But your frontline teams know
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  best what's happening in those established accounts, and our
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  job is to give them the information to take that in and
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  understand what is the right next step given what's normal.
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  We can tool them and enable them with all the things they need,
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  but we've got to be mindful of in Q to SQL conversion, get that
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  converted, set up the meeting, you know, on and on.
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  You know, it's not our job to pressure them in that way.
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  It's our job to inform them and be supportive of them while they
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  navigate the complexity of those accounts that have complex
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  relationships within them. Then you mentioned do another
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  webinar earlier with a little bit of sarcasm.
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  So I don't think that will be your answer to this question.
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  But how do you ensure product marketing and campaign teams or
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  building programs that move the needle and not just making a ton
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  of noise? And this is me speaking from a
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  place of knowing that for years there's been activity based
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  marketing. So the different ABM is just
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  doing a lot of stuff. So if we're trying to to do the
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  most important things, how do we get product, marketing and
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  campaign teams working together there now?
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  One of the things that we such we, you know, in my history of
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  different companies, certainly here when I first came in there
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  was that was the exact thing was what are the activities we can
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  do to show we're doing something right because active.
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  But like a good sales action, you can't confuse activity and
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  outcomes. And you know, like I mentioned
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  before, what look webinars are great.
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  We do them here, but you know, a one time event is does not make
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  a campaign. And what we've really tried to
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  focus on, we've done a lot of work with races and Rapids for
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  just organizational process. How we do work within our group
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  and within marketing to create a standard for this is how it's
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  done mainly one to give folks like sales teams and product
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  teams an expectation of we hear your need.
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  Thank you. Here's how we do business and
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  actualize that into the world because a lot of teams, you
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  know, always joke everybody is in sales.
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  If you're in sales, raise your hand.
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  Everybody's supposed to raise their hand.
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  And who thinks they're in marketing?
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  Well, a lot of people think they know what marketing is and
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  that's why they do the suggesting tactics because
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  that's what they know, right? That's in the webinars, in the
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  e-mail, whatever it might be. But as we all know, marketing as
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  a discipline is the art and science of stringing all that
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  together to the right audience at the right time and the right
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  seats. And so based on role definition,
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  we really want focus what product marketing, focus on the
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  what and the what. That's what they, we need them
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  to define. And our campaign teams, given
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  their experience and they've run a bunch of campaigns and know
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  what works, I want them to define the hack, The Who and the
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  hack. Because we let experts do their
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  job and we don't try to do each other's job.
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  Then we can be a lot more efficient with the and build a
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  lot of trust that when our campaign team takes the business
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  need, we trust them to string together the right activities.
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  Now, that might mean we leverage the content we have.
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  That might mean we've got to build some new content.
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  It might mean we've got to allocate budget in a way that we
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  need to decide for various tactics to execute or to build
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  content. But what we want to do is have
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  product marketing be really embedded with sales and product
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  and understand the need. And we want our campaign teams
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  to define the how, particularly when it comes to digital
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  marketing, ABN and sort of those external channels, because
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  that's what they're experts at. And if you let people live in
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  their expertise, everybody can practice at the top of their
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  license. You have strong role definition
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  about how you get that done. It makes the work a lot easier
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  to get done and it allows you to set expectations outside of your
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  department of I hear what you need and we have a way we do
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  business and marketing and this is what works.
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  And then you set that expectation and then they know
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  what they're going to get on the back end.
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  That's always where you get to do a webinar.
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  They say, well, we need help, what do we do?
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  And that's where you start getting to that activity based
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  marketing and if you can be on offense with a standard claim of
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  practice of how we do it based on what you're hearing from that
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  stakeholder, being on offense and prescriptive allows you to
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  comfort them that they know, OK, these guys know what they're
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  doing. They've got it handled.
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  I don't need to worry about suggesting all these tactics and
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  activities because I can see the playbook they're going to run to
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  get the outcome that I hope to achieve.
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  So that role definition is we spent six months just redoing
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  great season rapid diagrams across 1516 different marketing
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  processes, how we do work including how to run webinars.
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  So it's definitely on the board, but it is not a you just can't
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  take A1A1 time, effort and expect that to get a result.
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  Totally, Brian. What's 1 operational shift
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  that's made a measurable impact on customer growth?
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  I think a an operational shift that's made a big impact on our
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  company here and our operational growth is bringing together our
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  content and campaign teams things you want.
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  We've had a demand Gen. team and we've had, let me tell you our
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  demand Gen. team, amazing demand based experts, full stack
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  through and through built an amazing machine.
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  We still have a little bit of siloedness though between our
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  our demand Gen. operation, those who build the campaigns, our
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  content team trying to figure out what content to build, our
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  product marketing team sort of as a third leg of the stool.
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  And so by bringing content and campaigns basically together,
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  that creates a better, I think and faster build of a playbook.
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  And then they feel like they're A-Team and it's 1 less hand off
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  historic. We've had sort of the business
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  to product marketing, product marketing, basically deciding
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  what we do in terms of marketing plans and strategies that gets
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  thrown over to our content team. They've got to figure all that
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  out. And then how do you manifest
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  that into a campaign? We've been trying to shorten the
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  cycle and the number of handoffs between just so we can get there
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  faster. And it's not a doesn't feel like
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  a vote over the fence situation to another team.
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  It's one team. And that really I think has
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  helped us continue to build faster campaigns and align more
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  quickly on what's the most important work that we need to
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  be focused on because there's a lot out there we could do.
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  How do we prioritize and get it into a work stream quickly can
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  get people assigned in a line where they now become more of a
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  cross functional team without too many handoffs.
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  So that, but that goes back to Rapids and races and role
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  definition. That in and of itself, even if
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  you've got 3 or 4 segments within your group within
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  marketing role definition and being very clear about who does
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  what is one of the most important things you can do
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  operationally is what happens is people have a great idea, oh,
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  let's do it. And then they go like this,
• 21:27
  who's going to do the thing? And by spending that up from
• 21:30
  time to define Rapids and races, that really helps get everybody
• 21:33
  on the same page. The other thing you have to do
• 21:36
  when you do that is you have to let the team do it together.
• 21:40
  I didn't, I wasn't in one rapping and racing as a leader,
• 21:44
  I'm not going to impose how the work should get done.
• 21:47
  We have experts and adults and they know what they're doing.
• 21:50
  Team define what ideal state is and let's do it.
• 21:54
  But if I try to impose that on them without walking in their
• 21:56
  shoes, they're not going to buy in.
• 21:59
  So it was a, it was a lot of work for our team to invest in
• 22:02
  that, but they define the machine so that it turns in the
• 22:06
  way that turns the gears efficiently and that they're
• 22:08
  comfortable with. And that I think was a major
• 22:11
  difference that we were able to accomplish within role
• 22:13
  definition between those and then defining the process and
• 22:17
  letting the team define that process themselves.
• 22:20
  I love the phrase one less hand off too.
• 22:22
  That should be AT shirt. So just future idea for your
• 22:25
  next event. One last hand off.
• 22:27
  We have a trending, we have a trending topic and this is one
• 22:32
  that I think everyone is asking us and probably asking you too.
• 22:36
  And we have the the safe space conversations.
• 22:39
  How do you win market share when you can't outspend your
• 22:42
  competitors? You know, I think that goes
• 22:45
  directly back to segmentation and being narrow and thoughtful
• 22:51
  and intentional with the money you are going to spend and the
• 22:55
  content you're going to aim. If you're if you think you can
• 22:58
  outspend companies that are much larger than you and you know,
• 23:02
  create a funnel to trendy wide, you're you're playing a losing
• 23:06
  game. That's why you have to take more
• 23:08
  of the sort of the ninja approach.
• 23:10
  You got to be really narrow. You got to be really tight.
• 23:13
  You got to get into the accounts that matter and the people that
• 23:18
  matter the most, that have the highest propensity to engage and
• 23:23
  convert. And you're doing that in concert
• 23:26
  with your commercial team because you can.
• 23:29
  When you go too wide, you create all that noise, and even though
• 23:33
  you might have created a lot of activity and you've got this
• 23:35
  list of what looks like MQLS and you start to hand it off, you
• 23:39
  know that if you start handing off mediocre or things that are
• 23:42
  not a good fit in terms of leads, marketing's credibility
• 23:45
  goes down. And the next time I bring them a
• 23:47
  set of data, they're not going to listen to it.
• 23:49
  And so if you can be there, if you really, really know who
• 23:52
  you're trying to go after, you're narrowly focused.
• 23:55
  I think that is the best strategy against.
• 23:57
  If you're a smaller player, just a better player, be really tight
• 24:01
  and intentional and just chip away, right?
• 24:04
  Because if you try to go too wide, you're going to be
• 24:07
  swimming in a very large ocean, and that's the quickest way to
• 24:11
  to get one. Stuff.
• 24:13
  Well, Brian, congratulations you have made it to the Lightning
• 24:16
  round. This is where we have some quick
• 24:17
  hitters. So I have a few questions for
• 24:19
  you to close this out today. They can be really quick
• 24:22
  answers, one word if you want the first biggest challenge in
• 24:26
  B2B marketing today. Don't want to say measurable ROI
• 24:30
  that commercial usability. Love it.
• 24:33
  That's a tough one. Yeah, that tells all this time
• 24:35
  we've heard that before the next one.
• 24:38
  Favorite tools or technology. So what's what are some of the
• 24:41
  favorite things in your tech stack you're using?
• 24:43
  You know, we are like everybody else trying to deploy some some
• 24:47
  of the new AI that our partners are bringing to bear to help
• 24:50
  summarize all this engagement and activity.
• 24:52
  So we're just testing the waters with that.
• 24:55
  But that is a world of opportunity.
• 24:57
  So sort of AI summaries and engagement are really important,
• 25:00
  I think, for the next wave. Great.
• 25:03
  We have a line called Goodreads, so this could be book, blog,
• 25:06
  newsletter, podcast, video. What are some of the favorite
• 25:08
  things you're reading? Two things that I'll plug.
• 25:11
  One, I was continue to be a fan of the book Smart Smart Smart
• 25:15
  Brevity by the Axios team. That was one that really just
• 25:19
  helped me simplify communications internally and
• 25:22
  externally and try to make it, you know, sort of simplify that
• 25:27
  for our customers and different audiences.
• 25:29
  So Smart Gravity is a book and I'll plug the Outcomes Rocket
• 25:33
  podcast, which we've had a great partnership with with healthcare
• 25:37
  leaders and our CEO just recently, but really focused on
• 25:40
  sort of healthcare topics of the day.
• 25:43
  Awesome, kind of the same question but for people who
• 25:46
  inspires you in the B to B space.
• 25:48
  I'm really trying to get off personal social media quite as a
• 25:53
  just a person, but of course LinkedIn and you continue to see
• 25:58
  really good work out there. You know, I've got some
• 26:01
  colleagues that I've worked with in the past that have really
• 26:03
  grown quickly in their roles at some of our competitor
• 26:07
  organizations, which I think they're really powerful.
• 26:11
  But you know, the Chief Marketing officer of Premier
• 26:13
  Casey Calvin is somebody who is somebody I worked with for 10
• 26:17
  years before as she grew up in marketing and is now the Chief
• 26:20
  Marketing officer, has done great work at that organization.
• 26:24
  I really enjoy seeing a number of the startups that I might not
• 26:29
  know who those people are, but I do see a lot of start-ups in my
• 26:31
  space doing amazing work. That makes you remember that
• 26:35
  even though like my company now is a 25 year old established
• 26:39
  company, you have to have an agile start up mindset to be
• 26:44
  able to engage audiences these days.
• 26:47
  And so that's a, you know, I'm always paying attention to like
• 26:49
  those early stage companies and how they're marketing themselves
• 26:53
  because I think there's a lot to learn from because you can't get
• 26:56
  trapped in the doldrums of, you know, feeling established and
• 26:59
  feeling, you know, sort of locked into what it's always
• 27:02
  been. So always mindful of.
• 27:04
  That absolutely. And then the very last question
• 27:08
  of all you made it most important one.
• 27:10
  How can everyone get in touch with you after this episode?
• 27:13
  Check me out. I'm out on LinkedIn.
• 27:15
  You can find me there. Brian Bowles very simple to find
• 27:18
  GHX in Charlotte here in Charlotte, NC.
• 27:21
  So if there's anyone local that would ever want to connect up,
• 27:24
  I'm always happy to, you know, catch talking with folks that
• 27:26
  are local. But check me out on LinkedIn.
• 27:28
  I'm always happy to connect with anybody out there to talk and
• 27:31
  and learn. Absolutely.
• 27:33
  All right, awesome. Thank you so much for the time.
• 27:36
  Yeah, thanks so much, Brian. You crushed it.
• 27:38
  I will let you know next time I'm in Charlotte.
• 27:40
  You know, unfortunately the Hornets did not get the number
• 27:42
  one pick this year, but we'll we'll have to figure something
• 27:46
  out next time I'm there. Thank you so much, Chris.
• 27:49
  Really appreciate the time and great experience.
• 27:51
  Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us for On
• 27:54
  Base. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 27:56
  please be sure to share, rate, review and subscribe on Spotify,
• 28:00
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• 28:03
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• 28:09
  alignment.