Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 29 - How to Talk Dirty with Confidence: Expert Tips from Luna Matas

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Ep 29 - How to Talk Dirty with Confidence: Expert Tips from Luna Matas · The Kink Consultant

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  It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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  on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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  So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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  to it. Hello everybody and welcome to
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  this week's episode of The King Consultant.
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  I am joined by Luna Matatus who is a sex and pleasure educator
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  who I have been following on social media for a while.
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  But I had the pleasure of being a presenter on the same Dom sub
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  dynamic summit that she was at and her class blew me away.
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  And as an educator she has a library of different classes and
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  education that she offers. But this was the first one I
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  took and I immediately knew I needed Luna on the podcast.
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  Me. So welcome, Luna.
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  Oh, thank you so much for having me here.
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  Are you kidding? Thank you for coming.
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  What was the name of your presentation?
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  Yeah, it was kinky dirty talk. So you had such ease with kink
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  dirty talk, and I was like, damn, where did she come out of?
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  So Luna, how did you get started in this work?
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  I actually came in through a public health perspective.
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  I'm based in Toronto, Canada. I was working in eastern and
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  southern Africa and in Canada, and I was doing all kinds of
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  things that were about like sexual Wellness, but we weren't
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  talking about pleasure, right? That was like the missing piece
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  in the conversation. So many years later, I started
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  teaching classes at local feminist sex positive shops in
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  Toronto that had a focus on pleasure education.
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  And immediately it was like, oh, here I am.
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  I've landed in the place where those intersections actually
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  come together and we can't separate pleasure from feeling
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  like we're caring about our health, like we have a holistic
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  approach to our identities. So that's where I landed.
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  You have a global perspective on this then?
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  Yeah, because. Actually, the conversations in
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  Eastern, in southern Africa, we're the exact same.
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  I mean, everyone was like hanging out condoms, but how do
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  I get him to go down on me? How do I get her to do this
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  thing? You know, people wanted to know
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  the how to, which is why because even though we have porn, porn
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  is very performative usually. And so it's if there's like a
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  missing connection with how do I interpret this into the reality
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  of bodies do things that are beautiful and disgusting and,
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  you know, like, how do we actually like bring it in?
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  I can't help but take away that it's an international problem
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  that men aren't going down on women.
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  Yeah, OK, that's why I teach Eat Pussy Like a Champ and it's my
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  most popular class. Eat pussy Like a champ is your
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  most popular class and I'm assuming it's men taking the
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  class. I don't know anymore because
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  I'm, I'm online mostly with it. People are buying myths
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  sometimes, you know, maybe I can tell.
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  But when I used to teach it in person, it would be exclusively
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  women or somebody's partner that a woman dragged there.
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  Because when you tell me that, though, I'm like, if that's your
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  most popular class, I'm wondering if like many things
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  and we're going to talk about this today, confident in skill
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  is what's stopping us from doing it.
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  And one of the other reasons I needed Luna here today was I
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  have my own skill barriers that I want to work on.
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  And I thought you might be the right person to have this
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  one-on-one with. I'm going to cop to something,
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  Luna. I suck at dirty talk.
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  I can do kinky dirty talk. I can be a Dom, I can be a sub.
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  I can say things like get on your knees and look at the
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  floor. You know, like I know how to
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  instruct lead guide when it comes to sex.
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  This is hard for me to even get out like my two things are you
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  feel so good inside me. I love how you're filling me up.
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  I don't want to use those two every time.
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  I want to inject some creativity here.
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  I want diversity in my dirty talk.
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  We got this, we can do this, but it is really interesting that
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  you find it so it there's more flow within BDSM.
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  And to me that kind of makes sense.
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  I mean, I'd love to hear what you think is the reason why.
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  But BDSM has so much imagination built into it, so there's so
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  much inspo. We're often pivoting to like a
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  character or an expression or an archetype.
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  And so it's like we can imbue that with a different language.
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  But in day-to-day in our day-to-day sex or non BDSM sex,
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  it feels like, are you stating the obvious?
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  You know, like like it's repetitive.
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  It lacks like some kind of like erotic anchor in the moment.
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  It's just kind of, it feels like just words.
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  Right. And then I'm overthinking it
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  too. So the reason I think I'm so
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  much more natural during BDSM talk is a couple of things.
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  I'm someone who jokes but seriously says my sexuality was
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  stunted because I was born kinky.
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  I have a fetish meaning I need spanking, punishment, discipline
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  to be turned on. And I think I can be the
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  disciplinarian or receive it. And I think that's why I'm so
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  naturally good at the BDSM talk, the kinky talk that is part of
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  my sexuality. Then when it comes to quote UN
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  quote actual sex, that type of the intimacy between a couple, I
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  struggle to know what to say that's going to make that other
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  person feel turned on because of all the reasons you just
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  explained. I feel like a fake in a way that
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  I don't when I'm being dominant or submissive.
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  I love that you know that about yourself.
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  That was a journey well. If I'm speaking to the expert,
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  I'm like, I want to give her all of the information because I
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  want to work on this. Yes, yes, if we're thinking
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  about regular dirty talk because sometimes the what we say is not
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  as important as how we say it. And so I do find I'm way, I'm
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  like you, I'm a switch, but I'm way more verbal when I'm in
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  kinky kind of situations, I am in non kinky situations.
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  So one thing that I usually recommend to people, I teach 7
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  or 8 different styles of dirty talk in my dirty talk 101.
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  And so the first one is almost sourcing from your environment.
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  So it's called narration. So you would look around.
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  So if you're, if your hand is on someone's penis or someone's
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  hand is like across your chest or someone's hands or in your
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  hair. So we're looking for what's
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  happening and we're narrating what's happening.
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  So we're gonna either put a compliment or a desire on top of
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  what what's happening. So if someone's hand is on my
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  chest, I might say, oh God, your hand feels so good across my
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  chest or you look so good between my thighs, or I can't
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  wait until you come up from there and do something else.
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  But we're kind of saying the hotness of the visual and then
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  we're pairing either a compliment or another sensory
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  thing that's happening. So another example of that is I
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  love going between the groin and the thigh where I call it like
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  the sweat catcher. But it's that like this where
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  all the juices and everything falls in.
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  Yeah. And I'll stick my face in there
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  and I'll inhale somebody and then I'll say, oh, you smell so
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  good. And so like pairing some of that
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  sensual or, you know, sensual kind of stuff that's happening
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  with a compliment is is more impactful than just you look so
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  good or you're so hot or things like that.
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  Like we want to get really specific about what turning us
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  on about that person's body. And if you know your person is
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  very into being complimented for let's say their primalness or
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  maybe their femininity or, or something about them that turns
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  them on about themselves or about you.
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  So it could just be even your horniness makes them horny.
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  So communicating that with either what's happening in the
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  moment or what your senses are taking in can help you have like
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  a more realistic connection to what's happening.
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  That makes a ton of sense and I don't want to skip over how
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  fucking hot that smelling that area is.
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  I would feel so seen, accepted and desired.
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  If someone went to an area that I was that vulnerable and
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  insecure about, I'm going to say it.
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  And then if they said that, I think I that would drive me over
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  the edge immediately. Yes.
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  So there's like a little bit of stepping outside your comfort
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  zone to be brave enough to do it.
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  Say it. I'm having these like little
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  light bulb moments of wait. I'm so worried about being new
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  and interesting, which there's a mix of that, right?
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  But also when someone says to me, oh, you're so wet.
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  That gets me every time, yes. So it's a mix of simplicity and
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  creativity. That's like, I feel like I'm
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  taking notes here and being like, OK.
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  You got this and you named it about that.
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  Like it doesn't have to be super new.
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  So that what you just said about, you know, you're so wet.
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  So we can say it, you're so wet. You know, like there's we can
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  change pitch, but if we change cadence or pace and volume, it
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  changes everything. So you're so wet.
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  It is so different than oh, you're so wet, which not bad or
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  worse, but it's different. If you whispered that close to
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  someone's ear instead of from between their legs, that's also
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  going to be different. If you're between their legs and
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  you pop up and you make eye contact and say it, it's also
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  going to be different. So same words, different
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  locations, different pairing of intensity, and you don't have to
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  remember a whole script about something.
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  That's you're right, you don't have to remember a whole script
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  about something. I'm rapid fire with the
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  questions, but how do you do it in such a way that it doesn't
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  feel scripted? I think part of that 50% of that
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  is self judgement. It's that we think it sounds
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  weird. We think it sounds over the top.
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  If your partner giggles and you're like, oh, they're
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  laughing at me. No, you've made them feel a
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  little something, you know, almost a little bit, maybe a
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  little bit of discomfort because it's so hot, right?
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  Like there's that's flattering if your partner giggles.
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  So we we feel that we have to say the right thing or if it
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  doesn't land, then it says something about our sexual
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  performance. I teach sexual confidence too
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  and sexually confident people, we don't care if we're good or
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  bad at something. We care.
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  Like are we getting curious and moving towards the momentum of
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  more pleasure? So, oh, that didn't land for
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  you. I got more.
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  You know, there's this constant creativity and sourcing.
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  The other part is that we have to work up in practice with
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  that. So it is gonna feel awkward and
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  weird the first time that that you do it or the first few
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  times. So I would start with something
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  where if you feel that your partner looking at you while you
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  say it or the eye contact is weird, either blindfold your
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  partner or do it from a place where maybe you're buried in
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  their neck or you're coming around from behind them and
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  you're saying things. So it gives you a little bit of
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  you're revealing slowly and you're not so on stage.
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  Yeah, it's like practicing lines as opposed to being the center
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  of attention and all focus on you.
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  It might make get easier if I did it that.
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  Way and I would tap into even your sexting.
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  So like what is your partner called their genitals?
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  You know, what are they? What are kind of words that they
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  say? Like do they use more kind of
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  affirming things or are they more about teas and picking up
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  on some of those nuances that you can play with?
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  Aren't even asking them. You know, what do you like to be
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  called? What are words that turn you on?
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  You know, certain words that for my body parts turn me off or
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  certain types of talk that turn me off.
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  And so I'm going to tell someone up front like I'm not into this
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  or this, but I love this word with like this intention.
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  All right, Kingster, let's talk about pleasure.
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  Not just mine, Yours too. If you're enjoying this episode
• 11:00
  of The King Consultant, I need you to do me a little favor and
• 11:03
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• 11:07
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• 11:11
  all over that fifth star, pressing down, giving it exactly
• 11:16
  the kind of attention it deserves.
• 11:18
  Yeah, that's it. And you know what happens when
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  you do? I get all hot and bothered
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  knowing you're out there showing your appreciation.
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• 11:29
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• 11:35
  Thanks, love. Now let's get back to the fun.
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  I totally feel that. And I'm a huge fan of having the
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  conversation and making it obvious because sometimes we
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  don't pick up on, oh, my partner likes pussy over vagina or I
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  grew up in Ireland. Sometimes people actually like
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  the word cunt, you know, whereas in America, I think that turns
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  people off a lot. That's been my experience.
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  You know, it's very degrading, which is its own kind of dirty
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  talk. But not.
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  Yeah, it's good to know when to bring that in and when that's
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  not the thing that's going to turn them on.
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  Absolutely. Absolutely.
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  And whether it's affirming of their horny or arousal, it might
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  be something that's affirming of gender or affirming of like just
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  their body in general that can feel like a form of intimacy
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  that you're creating through that verbal vessel, right?
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  You're actually like giving them something through their words
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  versus you're beautiful, you're sexy, which.
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  Can get a little tiring or just so used because I think for me
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  anything that is said outside of the bedroom or outside of the
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  intimacy of a couple, it's not going to take it to the next
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  level for me when I'm in an intimate modem.
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  And as much as I want to be called beautiful as I get ready
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  to go out on a dinner date, that isn't something that's going to
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  take me over the edge when someone is between my legs.
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  Oh, that's a perfect way of thinking about it, yeah.
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  Can you give me any tips for the next time?
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  Because the truth is I want to understand with my partner maybe
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  I've had the conversations. I know that he likes to call it
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  his cock. I know that he likes it referred
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  to as big and hard. But then I don't know how to
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  take it beyond that. OK, let me ask you, how does
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  that make you feel? Like do you feel like you are
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  going down on him in a way that's like you belong to his
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  cock? Is there a surrender or is there
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  more about like a passion for sort of devouring his cock?
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  Is there is there a vibe that kind of sets it off for you or
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  does it for? You OK?
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  That's a great question. For me, one of the reasons I am
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  struggling with this is because for me, I am so focused on my
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  own fetish of wanting to be owned, the power exchange side
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  of it. But in the interest of giving my
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  partner who doesn't share my fetish an enjoyable experience
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  like WE Media each other halfway, I want to be able to
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  meet him in a way that he feels seen, right?
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  So like when you ask what I feel, what I want is for him to
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  feel seen and I want to speak to him in a way that turns him on.
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  I'm thinking about and feeling submissive in the moment, but
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  that might not be what I want to talk about.
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  What vibes would like, turn him on?
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  Like what would he do? You know what he'd like to hear.
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  I think he's like a lot of praise and just excitement about
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  me being there and I can be very enthusiastic physically.
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  It's the words because like, of course I'm excited to be there
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  and giving pleasure and we're having this moment together and
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  it's hot as fuck. I struggle verbalizing that.
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  What I'd say is you have me so turned on.
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  Your cock is hot as fuck. Like do you see where that's
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  like not really hitting the note I want to hit?
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  But I think it's in the direction I think I think you're
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  close because, you know, you're I'm so turned on.
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  Could be, you know, sucking you makes me so wet, right?
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  Like. OK, what's?
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  Happening, yeah. I love that and I know this,
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  yeah. It's different when it's like
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  you're in it, yeah. Yeah.
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  I don't mean like you're not telling me anything.
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  I don't know. It was just that I know one of
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  the fundamentals is tell them how they're affecting your body,
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  which is exactly what you just explained.
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  You can also talk about this like almost infinite desire.
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  So I could be down here for hours, like just like like with
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  my partner, I like when he kind of just leans in and so I kind
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  of think that he's gone to a lounge and then it's just me and
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  his Dick and help me. Like you just go wherever you
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  go. We're fine.
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  And so, you know, it doesn't have to be even like my dirty
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  talk tends to be a mix of like super sultry, but then also like
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  silly because silly is sexy and it can kind of shake you up when
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  you do feel you're like, oh, what do I need to say next?
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  When you know, say something funny because then that'll like
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  relax you and then you can think about like, OK, now I'm going to
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  bring it back to like, like, I can't get enough of your taste.
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  I love the way your pre comes on my lips and then you know, lick
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  it off and show the verbal enthusiasm you already ready
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  show. OK, and I totally get that silly
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  is sexy because I'm silly with the people I'm most intimate
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  with, right? But when you say say something
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  funny, I'm like, what do you mean?
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  I immediately panic. I'm like, what do you mean say
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  something funny? That's that's a good insight
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  because I have this too, where I start to think about, OK, like
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  what am I going to say or like, what am I going to, you know, I
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  got to say something or I want or I have such a desire to
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  express like the enthusiasm. But also when our arousal and it
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  gets so high, we're often in a state where we might lose some
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  of that, that verbalness might be have like this sensory
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  overload from sucking or from touching or for stroking or
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  whatever it is. So you can even describe like
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  something with your hand. And so if you're stroking and
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  saying like, oh, I love like watching my hand go up and down,
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  like feeling all of you, you're getting harder in my hand, like
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  describing kind of what's happening.
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  The silly part, I don't know, maybe it doesn't work for
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  everybody, but I think there's some joy in, you know, like I'll
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  tell you my silly things, but I don't know how to describe how
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  to be silly. But I would grab a penis.
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  There's like one eye. So I'd be like, you know, like,
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  are you looking at me? Or like, like, just like waving
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  it around and be like, why are you so crazy today?
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  Physical comedy. Literal physical comedy.
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  Physical. I'm like slapstick in bed.
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  Who knew? Again, that comes with a certain
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  level of comfort of knowing what's going to work for you
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  both. This is my interpretation, but
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  when you share humor with someone, it's a gateway into
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  sharing so much. Else it is and and it's feeling
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  like play is the antithesis to performance.
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  And so I don't worry about is this making him hard?
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  Is this doing whatever? I'm so focused on the pleasure
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  that I'm trying to channel through me, and that Channel
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  includes play. OK, so let's talk about flow
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  then. You're allowing that pleasure to
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  flow through your body. How do you keep that flow going?
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  Like beginning to end? There's things we can do inside
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  the bedroom and things we can do outside the bedroom that kind of
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  help us build up a fuller erotic cup and so that we're not like
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  digging as deep when we get to our partners.
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  It's almost, we come in full and they get our overflow.
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  That helps us build confidence, presence.
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  We get more sexual satisfaction that way.
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  But most people don't really either have time for that or
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  they're not making time for that or they're not sure where to get
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  their sources of inspo from. For me, I love recommending to
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  my clients that they do build up that erotic imagination, exactly
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  the place where dirty talk comes from.
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  So doing things like looking into erotica, I've been
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  masturbating to Literotica Calm since like 1995.
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  If you're looking, go there or write your own erotica.
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  I'm a huge fan of that. I love creating scenarios in my
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  head. I don't have the attention span
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  to write the whole erotica, but like, oh man, what's happening
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  up here? It's really fun to create your
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  own imagination world of like what your hottest sexual idea is
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  and it's endless boundless when it's in your head.
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  Absolutely, absolutely. Even the Eroticism that happens
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  in your life. So having a practice with your
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  partner where you send flashbacks to each other, you
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  know, here's what I was thinking of.
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  Remember that moment that you did this thing or I'm looking
• 18:49
  forward to the next time we do that thing.
• 18:52
  Like not letting the moment end when the sex ends, but carrying
• 18:56
  that energy with you. Oh.
• 18:57
  My gosh, I love that. It's sort of like a little
• 18:59
  memory from it that you can draw on and put back in.
• 19:02
  It's like that movie Inside Out, you know?
• 19:05
  That's my favorite movie. So many feelings.
• 19:08
  That's one thing I'm like, I wish that was around when I was
• 19:11
  a kid. That movie would have made a
• 19:13
  huge difference. I wish I had that in school
• 19:15
  instead of like algebra. Emotional intelligence would
• 19:18
  have helped me like. I know because they act like
• 19:21
  it's so hard to teach, but I'm like, I'm pretty sure that movie
• 19:23
  just advanced kids five years in that department.
• 19:26
  Exactly. So with that visual in mind of
• 19:29
  like grabbing onto that memory, yeah, I love receiving a text
• 19:33
  that's about something that happened in the past because
• 19:35
  it's a shared experience that I get to remember.
• 19:37
  That's it, yeah. You get to connect kind of the
• 19:39
  two timelines of like the Eroticism of the past and how it
• 19:42
  contributed to how you feel about each other now or what's
• 19:45
  going to happen next. OK, and then oh, that.
• 19:47
  So then that's carry. That's like the foreplay for the
• 19:50
  next time. Oh my gosh, we're like saving a
• 19:52
  little bit, moving it forward. These are all really helpful for
• 19:55
  me because as I said, not all of my partners are fetishists with
• 20:00
  the same fetish. And if I want to connect with
• 20:02
  them, it's really important to me to meet them where they're at
• 20:06
  so that because they're meeting me where I'm at with my spanking
• 20:08
  desire, my discipline desire, and I want to give that back in
• 20:12
  like equal amounts. So like this is really helpful
• 20:15
  and it's a good reminder. And I think a lot of kinky
• 20:17
  people fall into this. So I'm copying to this for
• 20:20
  myself and on behalf of some others.
• 20:21
  Sometimes we're so focused on having our kinky desires met and
• 20:24
  we meet someone who's willing to do it that we can.
• 20:26
  And I'm guilty of this. Forget to meet their vanilla
• 20:29
  needs to or just non kinky. I totally agree.
• 20:32
  And then it doesn't feel even as mutually satisfying.
• 20:35
  It feels like there's a disconnect because there's
• 20:38
  there's a pour that's happening, like one person is pouring more
• 20:41
  into the other person's Eroticism and it's great to
• 20:43
  receive. So if you find that you can't do
• 20:45
  that in one session, then I like to have like do me date.
• 20:49
  So do me. You know, we get to do me on
• 20:52
  Saturday and maybe on Sunday. It's a do you date and we get to
• 20:55
  do everything you want to do. Let's like focus on you.
• 20:58
  Oh, I love that. Really helpful because it also,
• 21:00
  just as much as we might fight against structure or scheduling,
• 21:05
  sometimes that's the way we keep the momentum going.
• 21:08
  We keep things going, yeah. I agree.
• 21:10
  And it gives you something to look forward to.
• 21:12
  It gives you something to groom for.
• 21:14
  It gives you something to get excited about.
• 21:16
  Yeah. Oh, I.
• 21:17
  Like that, because I like a little prep work, just a little
• 21:19
  bit of like, OK, what's going to happen?
• 21:21
  Shaving the legs, getting in the mental headspace of what's about
• 21:24
  to happen. It excites me.
• 21:26
  Absolutely. Laying out the sex blankets, you
• 21:28
  know. It like it's sort of like we're
• 21:31
  about to have a good, good time that's.
• 21:32
  It so why not have that? I mean dopamine is high as
• 21:35
  before the reward. So let's like build up that like
• 21:38
  area of dopamine possibility with this flashback flirting.
• 21:42
  It's that same tension you get as you climb a roller coaster.
• 21:46
  It's like, Oh my God, it's coming, it's coming, it's
• 21:48
  coming, and when it comes, it's fun.
• 21:51
  But that tension is partly what you remember.
• 21:53
  That's here. This is my fetish and King
• 21:56
  coming in. I enjoy being a little scared,
• 21:58
  right? So these are the things I'm
• 21:59
  aware of when I'm trying to come up with dirty talk.
• 22:02
  I'm like that person probably isn't going to enjoy being
• 22:05
  scared as much or might not is my point.
• 22:07
  So I'm want to make sure I'm speaking the language.
• 22:09
  Yeah, and I like how you still carry that part of yourself into
• 22:14
  non kinky relationships. It's just like a little bit more
• 22:17
  muted while you're engaging and making space for someone else's
• 22:21
  Eroticism. Because that's the sauce.
• 22:23
  That's where you get fed by and inspired by someone else's
• 22:28
  erotic energy, because now you have space.
• 22:30
  You blew my mind with how that is.
• 22:32
  That is the sauce. That's the special mix.
• 22:35
  Really takes it to the next level.
• 22:37
  Oh, I'm glad you like that. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:38
  I think it was like such a a misconception about that.
• 22:42
  We have sex with other people to, like, get sex from them, but
• 22:46
  we're like giving to my partner and I call it like a circuit.
• 22:49
  It's like we're giving and receiving at the same time.
• 22:51
  I always think of it like a circuit.
• 22:53
  It might not be the words I'm using, but it's bringing up past
• 22:56
  things of I think that that is some of the knock on effect.
• 23:00
  I was raised in Catholic Ireland.
• 23:01
  I am not sure how religion may have played a part in your life,
• 23:05
  but the idea that my virginity was my job to protect and a
• 23:09
  man's job was to come get it lends itself to what you just
• 23:12
  described. This idea of we're in it to get
• 23:14
  sex or it's not an idea of pleasure, receiving, giving.
• 23:18
  It's more like, oh, protect, give away.
• 23:20
  It's more transactional. It only leads to it being more
• 23:22
  transactional. There was number room for
• 23:24
  pleasure. Absolutely.
• 23:25
  And we just kind of become objects for each other's
• 23:28
  transactions. Yeah, I grew up Catholic too.
• 23:30
  And there's so much focus on like, having sort of gender
• 23:35
  roles around things. And so men are like the givers
• 23:39
  and women are the receivers. And so if you find that you've
• 23:42
  been conditioned in a way that feels it feels hard to receive,
• 23:46
  like it's not your fault. You know, it's like, you're
• 23:49
  like, no, I need to do. I need to give.
• 23:50
  I need because I've had to work on being comfortable receiving
• 23:54
  and like really leaning into that and seeing like the worth
• 23:57
  and the value and the joy of someone being able to give to
• 24:00
  someone who can receive. Was there anything specific you
• 24:03
  did that helped you learn to receive better or more
• 24:06
  comfortably? Yeah, I had to really own my
• 24:10
  yeses. So I was owning my nose.
• 24:12
  I was like, Nope, don't like this, don't like this, don't
• 24:14
  like that. But I wasn't like, no, I need
• 24:16
  you to do this thing or like, this is my favorite part of sex.
• 24:20
  I teach like 30 different types of topics on my site.
• 24:23
  But my favorite thing is kissing.
• 24:25
  So if there's not good deep long kissing, I'm so not interested.
• 24:29
  And before I used to override, almost betrayed myself for that
• 24:33
  and kind of lean into, OK, there's good things, there's
• 24:36
  these things, but it's gonna feel like you're being a little
• 24:38
  selfish. But actually we're so far in the
• 24:41
  other direction. Like it's not selfish.
• 24:44
  Yeah, it means that you care about putting time into the
• 24:47
  relationship to get to have the intimacy you want, and that's
• 24:51
  gonna keep you in further or keep you in it longer.
• 24:53
  That's what I always say about boundaries, too.
• 24:55
  You're sharing a boundary because you want that person in
• 24:57
  your life and they're able to stay in your life if they're not
• 25:00
  crossing your boundaries. It's so loving and intimate.
• 25:03
  Share. Yeah, it really is.
• 25:04
  Yeah. That's the perfect analogy to
• 25:06
  it. Yeah.
• 25:07
  It's very much about, like, leaning into deep mutual
• 25:11
  pleasure. And so if someone doesn't know
• 25:13
  what your favorite parts are, they can't even have the
• 25:15
  confidence to give you what's actually good for you.
• 25:18
  And so really learning those things, owning it, you know,
• 25:21
  having, like, AI asked my younger crowds when I'm teaching
• 25:24
  consent to think about, like, redefining sex.
• 25:27
  And so maybe sex isn't penetration for you.
• 25:29
  Maybe it's not even nudity for you, but what would it be like
• 25:32
  if you were picking your ideal sex menu?
• 25:34
  Like, how long would you do this thing?
• 25:35
  What are the things that you would do the most?
• 25:37
  When would sex end? Like, does it have to end when
• 25:39
  the penis ends? No.
• 25:40
  Yeah. So no, that's like a really good
• 25:42
  point. You were finding empowerment in
• 25:44
  your yeses that kind of helped you the most, or at least was
• 25:48
  the starter for you. Absolutely.
• 25:50
  And then leaning into the discomfort of that, you feel
• 25:53
  kind of selfish. Just do it anyways.
• 25:54
  Let someone tell you you're selfish.
• 25:56
  They're gonna be like, wow, like you know how to like, be
• 25:59
  present. You know how to like be in the
• 26:01
  pleasure I was giving you. Oh, it was so good to like surf
• 26:04
  your pleasure when you were just like, So in the moment, that's
• 26:07
  the feeling you're going to give your partners.
• 26:09
  As a woman, I always am so wary of, Am I going to be perceived
• 26:13
  as selfish? And then you just said, let them
• 26:15
  tell you like, don't be worried about whether or not you're
• 26:17
  selfish. They'll tell you if that's
• 26:19
  happening. And chances are they're not
• 26:20
  going to say that. OK.
• 26:21
  And. They're probably not
• 26:22
  experiencing that like they're If you have a partner who's
• 26:24
  experiencing that, they don't care about your pleasure.
• 26:26
  I. Know you have a library of
• 26:28
  courses, but can we talk about kissing?
• 26:30
  Yes, you know, it's. Funny, that's the one in class I
• 26:32
  don't teach. Well, now you need to.
• 26:35
  I know I need to, yeah, people come to me all the time for how
• 26:39
  do I kiss better? And The funny thing with like, I
• 26:41
  mean, like a lot of sexual techniques is like, yeah, I can
• 26:44
  teach you, OK, do this with your mouth or do this or communicate
• 26:47
  this. A lot of it is also orienting
• 26:49
  towards that intuitive feeling and flow with another person.
• 26:53
  And so learning kind of that rhythm of like, OK, I tried this
• 26:56
  and like this works. Or they're opening their mouth a
• 26:59
  little bit too much. Folks don't ever want to tell
• 27:01
  their partners, hey, can you do this thing a different way?
• 27:04
  But actually that's part of what our conversation just was is
• 27:08
  that we have to learn these things like sex is a skill in
• 27:11
  any form. So we don't, we don't know how
• 27:13
  to do that, especially if you're with a new partner.
• 27:15
  It's very rare. People are like just like great
• 27:18
  kissers together or great sexers together, like right off the
• 27:21
  bat, like you learn each other's bodies.
• 27:23
  So I usually teach that kind of like, well, how do you learn
• 27:26
  whether it's for spanking, whether it's for kissing,
• 27:28
  whether it's for whatever, How do you learn that that intuitive
• 27:31
  connection presence, kind of like mindful of what's happening
• 27:35
  in the moment versus what I think I should do.
• 27:38
  OK, so listen with your mouth. My mouth should be paying
• 27:40
  attention to theirs and vice versa.
• 27:41
  And that's the gateway to good sex conversation.
• 27:44
  I think being able to have a conversation even at the kissing
• 27:48
  level of oh, I like it when your tongue just barely touches mine.
• 27:52
  Like don't go so far in. Is that fair feedback to give?
• 27:56
  Absolutely, We tune into these slight changes in someone's
• 27:58
  body. So if I was putting my tongue
• 28:00
  inside someone's mouth and they froze or they pulled back
• 28:03
  slightly or their hands change, you know, we're going to have an
• 28:06
  automatic response to what we like and what we don't like.
• 28:09
  And some people are obvious and some people are not.
• 28:10
  So I would check in. I'd be like, oh, a little less,
• 28:13
  a little less tongue. So we can also invite feedback,
• 28:16
  you know, do you want, do you want more?
• 28:17
  Do you want it wetter? Do you want this?
• 28:19
  Like just even binary kinds of questions, Faster, slower.
• 28:22
  That can really help guide whatever's happening.
• 28:24
  I like the binary questions because if you're just given
• 28:27
  like this option of nebulous and lenders, yeah, I'm into in my my
• 28:31
  brain, give me A or B and I'll choose.
• 28:33
  A or B? That's it.
• 28:35
  Yeah. OK, Luna, we're at time.
• 28:37
  Is there anything else you want to discuss?
• 28:39
  This is so fun. I know this has been so great.
• 28:41
  Thank you for this conversation. I always want to leave people on
• 28:44
  like you mentioned, you know my body positive kind of work.
• 28:48
  So I'd love to leave people with just a reminder that your body
• 28:52
  is a vessel. If you don't like what it looks
• 28:55
  like, you don't like how it performs, you don't like what it
• 28:57
  does, that's OK. But don't let that stop you from
• 29:01
  doing what you want to do because that's going to be, you
• 29:04
  know, a relationship to our body that we have to come into over
• 29:07
  and over and over again. So whether we're, you know,
• 29:09
  going through postpartum or changes in medication or
• 29:13
  menopause or aging, oh, we're gonna have to like, come into
• 29:16
  relationship with our pleasure and our body.
• 29:18
  And I just meet so many people that are waiting until whatever
• 29:21
  change they want to make in their body or, you know, whether
• 29:24
  that's even possible or not. And there's this smallness
• 29:27
  that's happening, whereas things like kink and sex are so
• 29:31
  expansive. So take up more space, you know,
• 29:33
  find ways to do that even in non sexual things or whether you're
• 29:36
  like dancing or creating or whatever.
• 29:39
  But I think that's what feeds our erotic creativity.
• 29:41
  It can't thrive when we're, like, strangling it.
• 29:43
  So well said because kink is expansive and we need to lean
• 29:47
  into that and make the most of this beautiful space we get to
• 29:51
  exist in. What advice do you like to give
• 29:53
  the majority of your couples or people who come to you?
• 29:56
  This really is about learning. So we think that because it's
• 29:59
  sex or kink that we just like know how to do it.
• 30:01
  So take the classes, do the reading, read the books.
• 30:04
  Like it sounds like you have to be a kink nerd about it, but you
• 30:08
  kind of do because you get a lot of inspiration from different
• 30:11
  frameworks or perspectives on what you're doing in addition to
• 30:14
  technique to make you feel confident.
• 30:16
  Thank you, I agree there are resources out there.
• 30:19
  Use them because that's what's going to make you better.
• 30:21
  It's the conversations, but it's also educating yourself and the
• 30:24
  resources you have given me so many light bulb moments.
• 30:27
  Seriously. I'm so glad.
• 30:28
  Oh, you're great. Thank you for that.
• 30:30
  You're great conversation list like great questions.
• 30:33
  Thank you. If you want to go on a journey
• 30:35
  with Luna, you can follow her on Instagram at Luna Matatas.
• 30:38
  That's Lun AM ATATAS, and you'll find that in the show notes.
• 30:43
  She's on Twitter also is Luna Matatas.
• 30:45
  She's at lunamatatas.com. So definitely go check her out
• 30:49
  and the endless library of amazing educational courses in
• 30:53
  sex and pleasure. Luna, thank you so much for
• 30:56
  being here. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 31:00
  don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with
• 31:02
  anyone who might find it interesting.
• 31:04
  And if you have any questions or topics you'd like me to cover in
• 31:07
  future episodes, feel free to reach out e-mail
• 31:09
  info@thekingconsultant.com. Until next time, keep on kinking
• 31:14
  on.