Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Turning Stigma Into Strength | Andrea Paquette’s Bipolar Babe Story | Episode 35
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar: What if the very thing you once tried to hide became the very thing that gave you life purpose? For millions of people living with mental illness, the greatest struggle isn't always the diagnosis itself, it's the stigma. It's wondering if people will see the diagnosis before they see the person. Today's guest made a remarkable decision. Instead of hiding from her diagnosis, she chose to own it. She transformed one of the darkest seasons of her life into a mission that has helped tens of thousands of people find hope, understanding, and the courage to speak openly about mental health. Today we're talking about resilience, identity, purpose, and what happens when we stop letting a label define our future. This is Rebuild and Fulfill. Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill, the podcast where we share real stories of resilience, recovery, and rebuilding after life's greatest challenges. I'm your host, Kelsey Dunbar, and today I'm honored to be joined by Andrea Piquette. Andrea is the president and co-founder of the Stigma Free Mental Health Society, also founder of the Bipolar Babe Project. She's a keynote speaker, author, and one of North America's leading voices in mental health advocacy. Since being diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 2005, Andrea has dedicated her life to helping others understand that a diagnosis doesn't define a person, and that every one of us deserves to be seen with compassion, dignity, and hope. Andrea, welcome to Rebuild and Fulfill. It's an honor to have you here. Andrea Paquette: And it's such an honor to be here. Thank you for having me, Kelsey. Kelsey Dunbar: My pleasure. The honor is mine. Andrea, but before we talk about everything you've built over the past two decades, I'd love for our listeners to meet the person behind the advocacy. So if we had met you before your diagnosis, before bipolar babe, before the speaking, before the nonprofit, who was Andrea at that time? Andrea Paquette: Take you back a little ways. When I was a teenager, I got into a lot of trouble. I was a bit of a badass, I guess you could say, dropped out of school doing drugs, drinking, part of a gang. Yeah, it wasn't the smoothest time when I lived in Sudbury, Ontario. And I decided at that time that I wanted to change my life. So I gave my mom a call. She flew me out to British Columbia on the other side of the country, went back to school, and I had a dream. I had a dream to go to university. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do. But when I arrived, I thought law school, maybe something else, I don't know, nursing, what could I do? And after miserably failing the LSAT, the law test, I found a love in political science. So I became quite a political nerd. I ran for nomination for member of parliament when I was 25 in Victoria. Drove across the country to Ottawa in five days to pursue that career, which was a legitimate you know. venture. I knew a lot of people. And but when I got to Ottawa, everything just fell apart. Kelsey Dunbar: So looking back now, do you smile at that younger version of yourself? Andrea Paquette: I definitely do because even when I was 16 years old, I feel like I had a type of resilience that maybe a lot of people just didn't have because I was neglected a lot as a child. My father was kind of, you know, always off with his girlfriends. I raised myself. Probably why I got into a lot of trouble. Love him. He's amazing, right? But when you're younger, things can look very different. My mom traveled the world with her engineer boyfriend, and I raised myself. In many ways. So when I look back at that younger me, I want to give her a little bit of a pat on the back because when I went to university, I was the one who got me there 100% financially ambition. And I even lived on my own for all of my grade 12 years. My mom, she has a mental illness as well, and she kicked me out of the house. And so I don't hold that against her. We are super close, and there's a lot of forgiveness that had to come with that. However, when it came time to write those scholarship and bursary applications, it was pretty cool. I had a story to tell. And I got a lot of support from the community to make my dream come true. Kelsey Dunbar: That's awesome. And I definitely can relate. I had a similar childhood where my parents were off partying. my parents were divorced. My mother was remarried to my stepfather, and partying was more important than finishing raising the kids. And so my sister and I in my younger years kind of raised each other. And then she was a few years older. And by high school, she really couldn't be bothered. So I kind of finished raising myself in a similar way. So I can definitely appreciate what you went through and the success that you gained for yourself all on your own. That was that's absolutely amazing. Andrea Paquette: Yeah, there's actually people who did show up that were unexpected. My boyfriend of four years at the time in high school. his family actually, after I was on my own, took me in for quite some time and invited me into their house and took me to Arizona, watched a Diamondbacks game, did l a lot of traveling, tried sushi, things I never had the opportunity to do. And you know, teachers, some teachers showed up and guidance counselor said she went she was gonna go to bat. for me for scholarships and she really helped me out. So there's good people out there. I didn't do it all on my own, but definitely my parental structure really wasn't there. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: support system to to back you up. A lot of people don't have that. So I'm glad to hear that you at least had that. So Andrea Paquette: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: one thing I noticed while researching your story is that you often talk about your diagnosis as a turning point, but every turning point has a moment just before it. Sometimes we don't realize our lives are about to change until we're looking back. So take us back to 2005. What do you remember most about that season of your life And what was it like receiving your bipolar diagnosis at twenty five? Andrea Paquette: Hmm. Well, it's quite a shock because I didn't know anything was wrong with me. There were a few signs there. A couple of months earlier from moving in 2005 to Ottawa with a panic attack and some anxiety and things, some paranoia, which I didn't question. So there was some early onset but very subtle signs. So when I was in Ottawa in 2005, it was a shock when I found out that. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. What started happening during that time is I went into a psychosis. So seeing things, hearing things, believing things that aren't real. I would also have this mania where I just wanted to talk to people so fast, so connected, so high, so happy times a million. For people who've never experienced mania, it's really not something you can fully explain that feeling. And I was just very lucky through circumstance. And you know, I called 911 when I was house sitting for my friend because I thought somebody was trying to break into the house during one of those psychoses. And it was nothing was happening. And when the police officer showed up, he just simply spent a good half an hour with me. And he looked at me and he said, I think you might be having a mental health crisis. And I think you know, you should go in the ambulance, they can take you to the hospital, some kind of protocol. He couldn't drive me. And I decided at that time I was so scared to be in that apartment, Kelsey, that I just had to take that ambulance to the hospital because I didn't want to be alone and I was afraid. But I didn't think or know that I had mental health problems. And then when I ended up in the hospital and I was assessed for six hours, Finally, this nurse came up to me and she said, Hun, put her hand on my shoulder and she said, You're coming with us. And I was like, Why? I don't really understand. And my friends were there, you know, talking about how I'd been acting at a character, thinking my roommate was murdered, or I was just really not acting like Andrea. I was isolating in this house, house sitting for my friend. So a lot of people didn't see the behavior. but yeah, in 2005. That's when it all came crashing down, and that was my first hospitalization in the Royal Ottawa Hospital for Mental Illness. Kelsey Dunbar: So so at that time did you ever feel like your future had like been completely rewritten? Andrea Paquette: Yes, I definitely felt like my future was completely rewritten because when I received that diagnosis, it was only a few weeks of being in the hospital. And that was in the psych ward. At the it was just very easy to figure out with my family history, the way I'd been acting, the things my friends were saying. And for some reason it takes a very, very long time for people to get diagnosed. But for me it wasn't a matter of weeks. And when I heard those words, you have bipolar disorder, I thought, my God, I'm gonna be like my mom. I just can't believe I can't accept living a life like my mother because she was off medications for most of her life. she would end up in hospitals every few years, having breakdowns. She didn't want to take medication because she felt weak. There's a lot of stigma. I get it, right? However, I wish she did. But I just thought I was doomed. That was the point when I believed I'm never gonna be happy again. I'm never gonna be able to establish myself. And one of the biggest reasons why I felt that is because I was in a housing crisis. My roommates had kicked me out. they didn't want me back. They took the key, they were afraid of me for the bipolar disorder, and the stigma was rampant, especially back in 2005. It wasn't something people were really educated about majority of the time. And I was very fortunate. I looked in the newspaper because social assistance said, okay, we'll give you four hundred dollars. That's it. Go find a place to live. And that still wasn't a lot of money back then. But I I I said, okay, I have to make this work. So I'm like half in psychosis, half out mania, but I was well enough to at least make a phone call and and talk to people. this really amazing woman, Heather. She answered the phone, she we chatted and she said, Why don't you come to my place? I would really love to meet you and I'll show you the place if you're interested. So I sat with her and I told her my story for like half an hour. And it was the first person I ever told my truth to. And it was beautiful because Heather looked at me and she said, Andrea, I think you'd make a great roommate. And that's when I thought things were gonna get better. Kelsey Dunbar: Incredible. I do want to take a half a step back simply because I think that the listeners would really benefit from this part, and that's simply that one thing that really struck me was reading that you said that one of the hardest parts wasn't simply receiving the diagnosis, it was actually accepting it. And I know a lot of people struggle with that. So whether it's a mental health diagnosis, addiction, grief, or any other kind of life-changing event. What did accepting your diagnosis actually look like? Was it one defining moment or was it a long process of learning who Andrea was now? Andrea Paquette: To fully accept my diagnosis, I would have to say took a few years. It wasn't something that I was able to come to grips with. the reason being is I ended up being hospitalized again, had a suicide attempt, all of this chaos was happening. I survived, thank God. however, I went to South Korea for a couple of years, taught English, became a professor, did all of these rebuilding things, right? And when I got back, I had an opportunity to share. What I had learned at a specific seminar called the Landmark Forum. And I shared in front of like 500 people what I had learned out of the seminar after a facilitator called me out in the crowd. And the reason why there were so many people there, because you could invite friends, family from the cohort of like 50. So I went up and I remember grabbing the microphone and looking around and shaking. And I just was red face and sweating. And I was like, can I do this? And then I just had this moment where I pulled it all together and I said simply this. I said, Hi everybody, my name is Andrea, and I've learned in the seminar that I have bipolar disorder, but I am not bipolar disorder. And I can live an extraordinary life. I don't have to let bipolar disorder define me anymore. I'm not gonna be ashamed. And that led to some beautiful things like creating the Bipolar Babe Project, et cetera. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: That's incredible. So another thing that really stood out to me while learning about your journey is that there was a period where you were simply trying to understand your diagnosis, and then a few years later you made a decision that most people never would. You didn't hide from it, you didn't pretend it wasn't there. You chose to share your story publicly. So was there one defining moment that pushed you to go public? It was the event itself, or do you feel like you it was really kind of bubbling up and it was just something that you were already close to having to make that Andrea Paquette: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: break? Andrea Paquette: Well, I was thinking for a long time when I was living in South Korea for two years, I'd say during the last year, I was sketching down names of a possible charity that I could create. And it was my dream to create a mental health charity to help other people understand the lives and the experiences of people with mental illness to create understanding and acceptance because I didn't feel like I was understood or accepted. And I just knew that people with mental illness, you know, we are people too. And it is, it is okay. And back in 2009, that was at the end of 2009 when I was leaving South Korea, it was bubbling for quite some time. And then when I got back, I did pursue to create the charity, but it it didn't happen because I didn't have a team, I didn't know how. So I put it on the shelf and then I took that landmark forum seminar. And that moment I just knew I had to embrace it because that was my opportunity to be courageous and just say to everybody, this is the way it is. People looked at me with pity, you know, they weren't all empowered by my words. Some of them might have been. But back then, you know, stigma was really intense. And even when you went onto Google and you typed mental illness. You would see lots of double faces and scary faces and criminals. And today it's beautiful because you'll see a lot of green ribbons. You'll see different kinds of images that are just more welcoming and honest. Kelsey Dunbar: So I mean to your story and and other people are experiencing this all the time. And that's why an organization like yours is so important to end the stigma, because so many people listening and will be listening to this podcast have something that they're hiding. Maybe it's a diagnosis or an addiction, or maybe it's a trauma they went through, or simply a part of themselves they never felt safe sharing. So I think it's incredibly powerful to when people can share that when they decide that they're ready to be done with the shame and that the shame doesn't get the final word anymore. So 100%. Andrea Paquette: Yeah, we need to have the final word, right? Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: So I want I want to move on to bipolar babe. So so one of the most Andrea Paquette: Yeah, I'd love to. Kelsey Dunbar: recognizable parts of your journey is the name bipolar babe. So I'd love to hear the story behind that. And why embrace a name that so many people might have avoided. Andrea Paquette: Yeah, so bifolar babe is just fun. I find it is very catchy. It has that alliteration, same with its tagline, stomping out stigma. But how it came to be is kind of a fun story. So after I did the initial landmark forum seminar, there was an opportunity to enroll in smaller seminars that would actually go on for a few weeks or even months at times. And I thought, okay, I'm gonna take this project seminar where we do a project, we present it, we learn all about project management. It wasn't very corporate, it was very accessible. So I took this and my friend was doing a project around funny t-shirts about mental health because she also has bipolar disorder and she wanted to sell them online. Some people have done that actually and been very successful with that. Julia should have pursued that in a bigger way. And she had all these Cool little slogans. The problem with being bipolar is that everybody else isn't, you know, lithium. It's not just for breakfast anymore. Just funny little sayings. And I was like, my gosh. And it was just like this moment, right? Those moments we have. And I was like, my t-shirt's gonna be pink, cute, and it's gonna have a little superhero blonde hair, me, and it's gonna say bipolar babe. And that's my t-shirt. And that is how it all began. That led to the project, a website, speaking, postcards, magnets, and a logo. So it was quite a journey. And little did I know where all that would lead to. Because when I first started, I thought I was creating a fun project and started speaking in schools. But when I walked into that first classroom of 15 kids, I knew that. Speaking to young people was something I was meant to do. I I remember s you know standing up outside the classroom and just like having to catch my breath because it was so meaningful, especially when they came up to me after and just said, thank you. And we haven't really heard about this stuff before. And it's great because my girlfriend or boyfriend has, you know, schizophrenia or bipolar. So yeah, it's it's pretty amazing and a lot of fun to tell that story. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, it's I mean it caught my eye immediately that like that was one of the things that made me go, I gotta meet this lady because Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Kelsey Dunbar: this this is just too awesome. I I love sassy people with big attitudes that you know just Andrea Paquette: Ha ha ha Kelsey Dunbar: wanna just take life and be like, watch me now. I I just love it. So did that did that name make you feel empowered right away, or did you kind of grow into that persona over time? Andrea Paquette: Well, it grew really fast because when I started speaking, I went to a lot of networking events and a lot of schools started requesting bigger crowds. It over I'd say the next six months to eight months after that, things really started falling into place for me in the mental health realm. I but I it didn't just happen. I put myself out there. I went to networking events and told people I want to start a charity. This is what I want to do. Bipolar Babe is the genesis, but my long-term goal is I want to start a charity. And little did I know that one of those many networking events, I a man, he was in his 60s, he came up to me and he gave me his card after I gave my speech about my personal experience and the charity and bipolar babe. And he said, I could help you. And I was like, this sounds good. So I called him the next day. We went for lunch like that fast. And we talked for over an hour and a half. He asked me about my story, what I wanted to accomplish. And his name was Robin. And I'll never forget the kindness in his face when he said to me, He's like, So, you want me to help you, but I don't even know you. How why should I help you? And I was like, Well, Robin, I think. You believe in this cause and I really think that you believe in me. And he said, You're right, kiddo, let's do this. And so he became my charity mentor. And his job, his consulting business is to create charities. It was amazing. I know, right? You meet the right people. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. Andrea Paquette: Like what are the chances? Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. the the book that comes to mind, and I read this, man, I must have been maybe twenty-five years old, and it's the the five people, I think it was called the five people you meet in heaven by Mitch Album. I don't know if you ever heard of the book, but just how people Andrea Paquette: Hmm. Yeah, I have. Kelsey Dunbar: come into your life and you know, sometimes for a reason and sometimes for a season, like that whole thing, but it's just amazing how certain people come into your life and you're like, that had to have been preordained. Andrea Paquette: Divine intervention Yep Yep. Kelsey Dunbar: Absolutely. 100%. So, so before we graduate bipolar babe, I just I do have a question. And it's kind Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: of like a a chicken or the egg kind of thing. So do you think that bipolar babe helped you to reclaim your identity? Or do you think because you reclaimed your identity, it opened you to bipolar babe? Andrea Paquette: No, but the whole creation around bipolar babe, I would have to say it helped me. I was a changed person by then, right? So it helped me rebuild my life. I saw myself differently because I was different. And it wasn't just because of the mental illness, but what I had experienced, you know, a suicide attempt, two hospitalizations, nearly not making it through, I wasn't the same person anymore. And bipolar babe was the beautiful catalyst t-shirt, idea, concept, and website, soon organization, to help me grow into the advocate I was meant to be. And I always say this too, is like with bipolar disorder, it opened a door. And yes, it was hard. And yes, it was negative and its illness and all of those things. But I didn't want to sit in that stigma and not try to make something out of it because it was so tragic that if it didn't have meaning, then what was it all for? And that's really how I felt. Kelsey Dunbar: I mean everything about your story. I just I just love it. I mean your story should definitely be made into a movie one day. I'd be at the theater watching it. It it's incredible. So Andrea Paquette: Awe. Kelsey Dunbar: eventually what started as one woman sharing her story obviously became something much, much bigger. So as we look at your journey, or I should say as I looked at your journey, I noticed something really fascinating. So it Began with Bipolar Babe, then became the Bipolar Disorder Society of British Columbia, later the Stigma Free Society, and today it's the Stigma Free Mental Health Society. To me, that feels like more than just a series of name changes. It feels like your mission kept growing. So, what Andrea Paquette: Yes. Kelsey Dunbar: inspired the revolution, or I should say evolution, of all those different companies? Andrea Paquette: Yeah, it's a bit of a revolution too, isn't it? Yeah. So as the charities, in 2010, like you said, we incorporated BDSBC, so bipolar disorder society. And that's when I became the first president. I wasn't an employee right away. Like we were just a board of directors of six that came on to incorporate this charity. But Robin is so brilliant and has so many connections. In a matter of six months, I We even less we got our charitable status where we could issue tax receipts and start approaching donors. So it was really a very challenging time, but an amazing time. I was working for the government. I worked for the government for 12 years. I was a policy analyst, a research assistant, research officer at times, and sometimes in communications. And I hated it. I was so miserable, and it became my dream and my journey. To work in mental health as a job, to make myself executive director of the Bipolar Disorder Society. After the first year, we were able to secure a $20,000 grant from TELUS. It was enough to get us going, which was pretty amazing. TELUS is the biggest you know communications company here in Canada, and it's one of the big three. And the fact that they believed in us, it really was the jumpstart we needed. So we were able to get a grant writer who could then ask for more grants, approach more donors, write grants, and I helped as well. And I soon became the executive director and wasn't just the president of the board. And then the second year rolled around, we were able to garner a bit more funds. And I was able to work two days as executive director and three days as government. And the next year came around. So that was in 2013. And I was just falling apart at the government job, that nine to five, forty hours in the office, in the cubicle. I I'm just not built for that kind of life. Especially when you have bipolar disorder, you need to have more freedom in your schedule. That's why a lot of us are entrepreneurs. you you need to have the freedom in order to take care of yourself a lot of the times. And the government doesn't even care about that. Well, in my experience. So in the third year, I decided I'm gonna leave the government and my board supported me and I moved over to Bipolar Disorder Society at three days a week only paid. And my two days were volunteer and probably even more than that, but I was so happy. I really didn't notice the I didn't even really notice the decrease in funds. I'm sure it was there, but it's nothing I remember. And I ended up partnering with University of British Columbia, Crest Bipolar Disorder. We did a two-year project pitch to the Vancouver Foundation here in Canada. And what do you know? We secured $160,000. And I was like, wow. And I remember Erin from Crest BD. She's like, wow, you can move into full time now. And that was in 2013. And here I am still in this position as CEO now. Yeah, I was president, but we've recently changed my name. Kelsey Dunbar: Awesome. So obviously where you're at now it's it's not so centralized to bipolar. So was there a moment when you realized that this was no longer gonna be about just bipolar disorder anymore and you were gonna be on a bigger scale? Andrea Paquette: Yeah. It was really exciting because with Bipolar Disorder Society, it is pigeonholed though, right? Like it was very exciting and it was amazing and that time with that name. But there there was a time where I realized we need to evolve to be more broad. And then I went to this award ceremony. I won this award through Coast Mental Health, the courage to come back. And it's like this amazing provincial award in British Columbia, and I was so honored. I went to this beautiful dinner and ceremony, and but I had the opportunity to speak for five minutes and accept my award and thank everybody, etc. So when I got up to the stage, I had a plan. I wasn't just gonna go up to the stage and accept my award and walk off. I was gonna put a call out to the audience of 1,500 people. And asked them to help me expand the charity over to the mainland in Vancouver because it was all just Vancouver Island, which was fairly smaller, and I wanted to bring it to the big city of Vancouver in British Columbia. And what it what do you know? I'm so happy that I did that because a philanthropist and a very good man, you know, Dave Richardson, gave me like $25,000 that night. And for the charity, he pledged it to us. And he soon became a close friend. He had dreams about mental health. He is very open about his depression and anxiety. Men, as you know, quite often have even more stigma compounded onto them because they're taught to be strong and don't be weak and stiff upper lip and all those things. But when Dave and I, he was in France for the for the summer, so online we met like every second day. We created this concept and program around stigma free zones. we decided, okay, I think it's time we change the charity name. I think he's like something broader. And I was like, Yeah. And what do you know? He ended up becoming the co-founder. And it was kind of funny when we were doing all this work together. I'd moved to Vancouver. And I he said, I'm a co-founder. Because I gave him his business card. And I said, You bet you are. And we're gonna do this together because this is. Just I feel like this is really special to you as well. And he and I have been working together now as co-founders and he's the board chairman. And I'm the CEO. And it's yeah, it's such a wonderful relationship. I'm very grateful for the Richardson family. They've been extremely supportive. Kelsey Dunbar: that's awesome. So I just wanted to say I'm so glad that you were able to kind of broaden your reach into all of mental health because obviously we we kind of get led to niche things a lot in today's society. Like if you're not talking to a very specific audience, it's like you're not talking to anyone and and those kind of things. When it comes to mental health, I think the only true way to end the stigma is to make the group Bigger so that we all can accept whatever different things that we're going through under the umbrella of mental health. And I really just want to end the stigma and the misunderstanding around mental health because I tell people all the time: mental health is your state of mind at any particular point in time. You may have a diagnosis, you may not, but the point is we all struggle at times. What are we struggling with? Mental health. Andrea Paquette: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: It it just needs to be normalized. It means it needs to just be normal conversation to say, I'm having a bad day, and someone says, Really, tell me about it. Without thinking about mental health as being a a negative or a or a black eye on s on somebody or a scarlet letter. We need to just say it's okay to be having struggles with your mental health and it's just normal like having a cold or just like struggling with the the word diet. When people say I've come from the fitness background, thirty years as a fitness coach, and people always say, Well, the first three letters of the word diet is die. Okay, if you ch if you choose to think of it that way. But honestly, if you look it up, diet just refers to what it is that you eat on a regular basis. You could be on a chocolate cake diet. it's not gonna be healthy for you, but you could do it. But the the point is we need to start thinking of these words in a general sense instead of some kind of negative connotation that tends to go along with it. Andrea Paquette: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. Just like say if I have bipolar disorder, somebody else has clinical depression, somebody else has an anxiety disorder or borderline, you know, yeah. And that we f we face similar struggles. It just even though it's a different experience, we all face similar struggles. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah. So all right, now something else that really impressed me and I mean that's that's this whole interview, right? But but seriously, so the the scale of what you've built. So I had I had to ask you when you first came on here just to kind of fact check this. So more than eight hundred and fifty presentations and more than fifty five thousand people reached. You've got programs in schools, you Work with workplaces, communities across Canada, but behind all those numbers are individual people. And after speaking with so many people over the years, has there ever been a story or maybe several that has stayed with you that you would like to share? Maybe one that reminds you of why this work matters so much? I'm sure there's a lot. Andrea Paquette: I have so many. Yeah, I have so many stories, but I'll share a few with you. Definitely. I remember I was giving a presentation on my personal story, but with that, I also do facts, slides, different mental illnesses, talk about stigma with the kids. So it's usually grades 7 to 12. have done younger, but I really like like grade 10, 11. They're just awesome. So I finished my presentation and this. young guy like grade eleven comes up to me and pulls me aside and he says, Andrea, I I've been experiencing psychosis. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, Well, after seeing your presentation and like everything you're talking about and how you believed, you know, you saw the devil's head dance in front of your face and you saw angels on the wall. And he's like, I see things. And I was like, okay. And I said, Well You know, I didn't get too much into it with him, but I said, Would you be comfortable talking to your school counselor about this? I said, Connie's an amazing woman, like she brought me in here. And I think you would benefit from having a chat. And I was worried initially that he wouldn't. And then what would I do with that information? But he was so sweet and so open. And he he said yes. And so when I was leaving, we well, we walked out and then he went into the counseling office and I could see him in there and he approached the counselor and they had their talk. And I don't know what ever happened, but it was such an amazing feeling. Wow, like how he said he had been struggling since grade three. So now he had the capacity, knowledge, education and awareness to do something about his situation. And experiencing psychosis can be extremely scary. You can you see things that aren't there, you hear things that aren't there, you have delusions, you can have hallucinations. It's very intense and very scary. And so him getting the help that he needed was one of the best feelings I think I've ever had. And another young girl in grade nine, when I first started sharing as bipolar babe in the schools and stuff like that. She came up to me and she thanked me for my presentation and she told me that she was going to start talking to her grandmother again because her grandmother had schizophrenia and she was afraid of her. And she realized that in hearing my story, that she really didn't have anything to be afraid of. Like these are the kind of comments I would I often back in the day before our digital surveys that we would. Get them to do on the phone through SurveyMonkey and all of those things. That's what we do now. But before that, it was all written, handwritten feedback surveys, and I would do a whole day of presentations and come home with like 200 papers and just sit there, have tea and read and read and cry and cry and read. So it's yeah, it's a beautiful journey, Kelsey. Like I really feel blessed that this is my job. right because really it does feel more fulfilling than anything I've ever had. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I I love being a part of this work as well, 'cause you can see the impact right away. But Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Kelsey Dunbar: also I've had quite a few stories throughout the years and I'm just curious if you have as well, with someone that ever came back to you years later and actually told you about the impact that you had on them. Do you have any of those? Andrea Paquette: Yeah, it was pretty inspiring as well. I had a few articles written about me, and there was a magazine in the Psych Ward at the Art Marm Pavilion where actually I was diagnosed in Victoria. not diagnosed, sorry, admitted to hospital again. And years later, it was interesting. I guess that magazine had made its way back into the psych ward somehow, because it wasn't recent. And a mother contacted me because her daughter was. admitted at the Eric Martin Pavilion for bipolar disorder. And she told me, and I know this is a bit immediate, but it's kind of long term at the same time, that her daughter read my article and said, Well she can do it. I can do it too. And I was like, my gosh, hearing that. And yeah, there's a girl, Nat, she's amazing. She came to a peer support group that I created for women. And that was many years ago, but it ran for over a decade. And it was just the bipolar babes group for women who had bipolar. No men showed up ever. So it was like they're excluded. I started a co-ed group. No one still showed up from the guy's side. I was like, I don't know how to make that happen, but I'm gonna make what's working happen with the women. And yeah, Nat went to the group and she was scared and she was closed off. But the women there just embraced her and over time She became even more confident and learned more about her illness and soon became accepting years down the road. Funny enough, that Scottish girl, she's become one of my closest friends now, just for the last year. And I didn't realize when we started talking, she says, You know that I went to the bipolar babe women's group, right? And I was like, we've missed that part in the story. You know, she's like, Yeah, I have to say. I was scared alone. I'd only been just diagnosed. I didn't know what to do, where to go. And I had that place. And funny enough, she has just started well it's about a two years ago now, not just, but she created her own charity as well. She has bipolar disorder. So hers is a social gathering place, and that's in Victoria, peer support for people who need social love, right? Like to be with other people, because it can be extremely isolating at times. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: I'm so glad I asked that question. That is a heck of a story. That's amazing. I love that. Andrea Paquette: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: So, all right, so now some of the other work that you do, you've spent years helping people understand mental health, but you've also worked extensively with leaders and organizations. And I wanna let you kind of dive into that a little bit. because obviously in the workplace now that's actually becoming more and more important. So when you walk into a workplace today, what's the biggest misconception you still see about mental health? Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Nobody wants to talk about it. It's just like the biggest thing. whenever I in the past, when I've given workplace presentations or facilitated conversations about mental health, it's a lot of silence. as well, too. I've been noticing and I still notice that a lot of managers don't know how to how to be empathetic or understanding or what it is. I think it's just a lack of education and awareness and intimidation of not doing the right thing. So, like attendance reviews happen quite a bit. Like that happened to me. I was under intense attendance review. If I miss one more day of work, I was fired. Like just things that aren't flexible and accommodating for people with mental illness. In workplaces too, one cool thing that I've noticed, it's not all negative. More workplaces are starting to bring in speakers and workshops about psychological safety, about mental health, awareness, and lived experience speakers. So I've also been seeing a trend of this happening. And when I look on LinkedIn and stuff, it's wonderful to see people sharing their own personal experiences. And these are from very amazing leaders in our community and globally. Kelsey Dunbar: sure. So you definitely have seen in the twenty years that you've been a part of this, a l a big shift. Andrea Paquette: huge. Yeah, it's definitely been a big shift. So back when I was diagnosed in 2005, as I mentioned, like it was dark, it was the those images that you would see on Google or whichever, just the conversations that never happened with the with the silence, with the judgment, you know, it's it just happened all the time. And Now, especially with here, I don't I know there's some mental health campaigns and movements happening in the United States, but one that's really important here in Canada, we had Clara's Big Ride. And Clara Hughes is a very impressive Olympian here in Canada. And she did a bike ride across Canada for mental health. And then I helped put on a big event for her, and you know, as part of Bellette's talk, that's the name of the campaign. And it's been campaigns like this, right, that help move the conversation along. There's been such a change. When you think of Kelly Rudy, he's up in SportsNet, like he was a huge hockey player. So he started talking about his depression. And when you have people who are like those influencer type people who are talking about it, I find that's happening more and more. And it is amazing too. There's a lot of new mental health charities out there. And so it's great to have that conversation going, get the programs out there. More education, the better. The more voices we have, the better. And I'd say there's even a trend around people sharing their lived experience with mental health. You see so much of that on social media. Most is very positive. we have to be careful how we share our stories sometimes because we don't want to you know. Now, I don't like the word trigger, like that's not my word. I don't ever use that. But there's been complaints that I have heard that sometimes sharing isn't always positive, but I say 99% of the time it is because we can't be afraid. And I also am a big advocate talking about suicide. A lot of people don't want to talk about suicide, especially in schools. But the schools I've been to, if you talk about it in an appropriate manner and in a way. that you're bringing it back to yourself, then it does stay with the kids to know that it's never an option, right? And there's always help and there's always hope. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, and they're not alone in feeling that way either. Andrea Paquette: Exactly. Kelsey Dunbar: Yeah, I think that's way more important than trying to shelter children and not giving them realistic information that there are so many children out there that feel that way. So I it actually kind of led to another question that I have here specifically for the youth. and we wrote our second book on mental health towards the youth, called You're Not Broken. And so it obviously means a lot to me. And that's where most of my mental Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Kelsey Dunbar: health challenges stem from is being a child dealing with mental illness. So if you could change one thing about the way that we teach mental health to the next generation, what would that be? Andrea Paquette: Well, it's the authenticity, right? And like what I just said, what a great segue into this question to talk about things purely authentic and not bubble wrapping things. I think our kids are far far too bubble wrapped as it is. So having those authentic, open, transparent, and very honest conversations, even if they're hard to hear. Because, like you say, if somebody's going to be feeling that way, they don't want to be feeling that way alone. We have young children who die by suicide all the time. Were they not given education about mental health in schools and had talks about suicide? Probably not. So it's really with the education that we do with our student mental health toolkit, it's social emotional learning, we really focus on at stigma-free mental health. We're not frontline crisis responders or therapists, but we want to get there before the crisis happens, you know. We offer comic books and documentaries and animations and we give presentations to 10,000 kids across Canada every year. So it's not just me sharing my story. We have 22 presenters with their lived experience going into schools virtually and in person. And to answer your question as well, lastly, part of the most effective education that you can have for children and teenagers. is to have lived experience. People talk to these issues. As you know, it's it's just powerful, right? Because if you've lived it, you can talk it. You can not just talk about facts. Facts are very important evidence-based information. But what I feel is even more inspiring is when we can share our truth because that's when the young ones and anybody for that matter will feel that they have a safe space to also share. Kelsey Dunbar: And and for the listeners, I I already offered myself up to Andrea as a free agent, but she said I can't do it 'cause I don't live in Canada. offered I'm like like put me on the front lines let's go Andrea Paquette: Yeah, there's some regulations process and policies with the organization, but they may change, I'll let you know. Kelsey Dunbar: Sounds good. So so as we start to wrap up, I'd love to shift from the advocate back to Andrea. So you said something that really resonated with me. No matter our challenges, we can all live extraordinary life extraordinary lives. That's easy word to say, right? After Andrea Paquette: Yeah, yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: everything you've experienced, what does an extraordinary life mean to you today? Andrea Paquette: Peace. Wow, I have peace, right? It was just turmoil and running from one place to another my entire life and going to Ottawa, going to Victoria, going to Camus, going to South Korea. Like it was just like I could never find happiness. And now it's so amazing along the way in the last, you know, many years to have the peace of having three beautiful dogs and living in a really beautiful home. Here in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, in a town of 33,000, which I love my rural community. you know, being in love with my husband and having somebody who actually supports me in every step of the way throughout my mental health journey. I never have to be alone, but as well too, before him, I was single for many years, and I found in myself a type of semblance and peace, even at that time as well. So just kind of taking it into a different way. of a marriage that's really healthy and happy. I have to say though, with my work, that's probably one of the no, it is one of the main pieces that brings me joy, that gives me semblance, that gives me stability. And I'm very, very grateful for the work that I do and the people I can connect with like yourself. So I'm just very grateful that I finally have peace. Kelsey Dunbar: love that for you because certainly you've been fighting the fight for a long time both on your own and now as an advocate to help others so I I'm glad that you're getting something out of it now for yourself when you've put other people's needs above your own for for so long now for two two plus decades. So I I really love that for you. So Andrea Paquette: Thanks. Kelsey Dunbar: you are also finishing your memoir by Polar Andrea Paquette: Mm-hmm. Kelsey Dunbar: Babe a tale of two worlds. So Andrea Paquette: Ha ha ha. Kelsey Dunbar: After spending all those years encouraging other people to tell their stories, what has it been like sitting down and writing your own? Andrea Paquette: Yeah, it's quite an interesting story, Kelsey, because when I got out of the hospital for the second time and the last time, I was alone a lot. Like I didn't have many friends left. And I remember c coming home and feeling a bit lonely. And I said, you know what? I have 20 journals from my life. Like I always wrote. Like I always felt that a journal made me feel better. So I recall, I think it was around 5 p.m. And then I stopped writing in my journal around 10. 11 maybe. So it was five, six hours straight of I almost finished the journal and it was my story. And I just talked about the hospitalization. It was all so fresh in my mind. I'm so happy I wrote it all down. And I talked about what I saw in the psychosis and what the depression felt like. And it was at the time everything. It was just my story. And I was just in a journal. Went to South Korea. typed it out in Word, and that's how far I mostly got in South Korea with it. And then I said, okay, I gotta get it off this computer, right? One of those clunky old Commodore 64 types. So I put a I I used a floppy disk. And then I took that floppy disk and went back to Canada, another continent continent. And then when I got to Canada, I was like, okay, well the technology is changing quite a bit. So just to be safe to keep this little writing, I'm gonna put it onto C D. Like and put it that way, burned it on there. And then I started writing during that time, long pieces of just writing. I was writing to survive. I wasn't writing to write a book. I didn't really have that in mind at the time, but over time, after I was doing it for a few years, I was like, maybe this could be something. And then it got put on USB and then went on to like the fifth lap. Top and the last few years is when I've really been seriously dedicating myself and taking a lot of training courses in memoir and understanding that shaping a memoir is very different than just writing. I didn't understand that. And I learned about things like how to activate a landscape and what's the difference between your main character and narrator and the distance between. And I was like, my god, a whole new world just opened up. And I'm like, this is how you write. I learned all the tools. So it was so exciting. It was just amazing. And so, yeah, Bipolar Babe, a tale of two worlds. I realized it wasn't just my story. It's also my mom. Right? Because she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. now she's diagnosed as schizoaffective disorder, but my entire life, she was also a bipolar babe. And the story of her and growing up as a child with a mother who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder because you know that ambulance wailing in the driveway in the 1980s to steal my mom away in the dead of night. And those are those are good memoir nuggets. Like you want to write about those things. So yeah. And now I have an editor, so I'm almost there. my goal is to have my completed manuscript polished. perfected as well as perfect as you can get those things. And edited by January second, twenty twenty seven. And I'll be fifty. So that's a Kelsey Dunbar: Right on. Andrea Paquette: that's a special day, yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: Fantastic. So this is probably I for those of us that work in this space and and helping people, this is probably what I consider the most important question of the interview. no pressure, right? But Andrea Paquette: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar: but basically I I get asked this a lot, and I'm sure you do too, so you probably have a good answer right off the top. But for that person that's listening today. who's just received a diagnosis or maybe they're carrying shame, fear, or a label they believe will define the rest of their life. If you could sit across from that person right now, what would you want them to know? Andrea Paquette: Yeah, the biggest piece is that things change. It's huge. It sounds so simple, but the truth of the matter is when I was diagnosed and going through the process of living through that initial stages of the mental illness, I thought that things would never get better, which led to my suicide attempt, going off my medications, stigmatizing myself, nearly dying from it. And I always say to people, Mental illness will make you feel like you're b you're buried, like you're under the dirt, like you're dead. It'll make you feel that way at times. But little did I know that things do change. It just takes time. And we have to put one step in front of the other. We don't have to have it all figured out. I always say just surround yourself with the good people, the psychiatrist, the psych nurse if you can get one, a therapist if you you can have one. But if you can't have that, like join your peer support group. engage people in your family, those that are supportive. Try to take good care of yourself too. Stay away from the drugs and the alcohol and the things that maybe used to bring you a lot of joy, because when you're diagnosed, your life is gonna change and it's gonna be hard. But you know what? You can make it worth it. And like I always say, no matter what our challenges, we can all live extraordinary lives. And that's truly where I feel that's real. Kelsey Dunbar: So, Andrea, thank you so much. Not just for sharing your story with us today, but for choosing to share it with the world over the past two decades. And I think one of the biggest lessons from our conversation is that while we can't always choose the challenges life places in front of us, we can definitely choose what we do with them. So you've shown us that a diagnosis doesn't have to define a person, purpose can. And I know that there's gonna be a lot of people listening today who feel a little less alone. Because of your willingness to be open. So thank you for the work that you're doing. And it's truly been an honor having you on Rebuild and Fulfill. But before we let you go, I do want those who want to be connected to you, your story, or learn more about your work, or to support the Stigma Free Mental Health Society, or follow your journey. What are the best places for people to find you, follow you, all that good stuff? Andrea Paquette: Yeah, I'll just send people to two places to keep it very simple because all our social media is housed on two websites. One website is bipolarbabe.com. So that's me. That's my website, right? Not stigma free. That's my CEO professional type job, but which I love and brings purpose and all those good things. But Bipolar Babe is for me, right? It's that place where I I house Decades of writing from the bipolar magazine bphope.com, where I've been writing for them for like blogs and articles for over 12 years now. So I house a lot of that there. I have information about my memoir upcoming. I'm gonna be seeking traditional publications. So that's very exciting. And then if you want to learn more about the charity, stigmafree mental health.com. You'll see all the socials there as well. You'll learn about our program areas for schools and rural and remote communities. So yeah, it's very exciting and the most most easiest places to find us for sure. Kelsey Dunbar: Well, again, Andrea, thank you and thank you to everyone listening today. If this conversation resonated with you, we'd love to hear your thoughts. So leave a comment, share this episode with someone who could benefit from Andrea's story. And if you're enjoying Rebuild and Fulfill, we'd be extremely grateful if you'd take a moment to leave us a rating or review. It really does help us reach more people with conversations just like this one. So remember, no matter what you're facing today, your story isn't over. Sometimes the very thing you think will define your life. becomes the thing that gives it purpose. So until next time, keep rebuilding, keep growing, and keep moving forward And we will see you next time on Rebuild and Fulfill. Take care.