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How to Find More Joy in Your Life · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Gay Men going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I am your host, Matt Lansadel, and joining me today is Michael DiIorio. Okay. Today we are talking about how to find more joy in your life. And we're going to be exploring questions like what brings you joy? And what does joy feel like for you? How do you personally want to deepen your own relationship with joy in the next chapter of your life? And what advice do you have for people who want to find more joy in their life? What we want you to get out of today's episode is just a moment to slow down and reflect on your relationship with joy. What does joy feel like for you? What brings you joy? And how can you invite more joy into your life? So we want to. We want you to just put everything into perspective and see, you know, do. Do you have joy in your life? Do you want more joy in your life? And if so, how can you make that happen? So Michael and I are going to be talking about ways that we bring joy into our lives and maybe some of the barriers that we have to joy and hopefully give you guys some ideas and how you can bring more joy into your life. If you're new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review which helps us get into the ears of the people who need us. And just remember that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show, using the link in the show notes or tapping the thanks button on YouTube. You can also subscribe to the early early access option on Apple Podcast and gain early access to episodes. All your support does help us continuing to make great content for you and supporting our community. So we do thank you in advance for that. All right. This episode was titled how to find more joy in your life for a reason. I believe that joy is both found. We can find joy in our life. It can come to us from people. It can come unexpectedly. But we also, I think, for the most part, are in charge of our own joy by creating. Right. So this episode could be titled how to find more joy in your life or how to create more joy in your life.
• 2:11
  Speaker B: Both.
• 2:11
  Speaker A: Both are important. So we want to explore ways that we can bring more joy into our life. Create more joy into our life. And from my perspective, that is going to be by focusing on the things that bring you joy. We're living in a world right now where there's a lot of, like, sorrow, there's a lot of anger, there's a lot of hatred, there's a lot of division. There's every reason to not feel joy. All right? And I think it's important to have conversations like these that can recenter us and start getting us to focus our attention on things that are working in our lives as opposed to what's not working or things that are, you know, acts of kindness versus acts of hatred. You know, where are we drawing our attention to that's going to allow us to cultivate more joy in our life? So, and I also look at joy as. It's less about chasing something outside yourself, and it's more about cultivating a way of being within yourself. Right. Joy. We can be joyful, we can be at peace in the most chaotic environment. Right? That's the inner work of finding joy. So this is an inside job and an outside job. Right? They're. They're both. They're both equally important because we want to allow the world to have an impact on us. We want to allow people to love us so it can bring us joy. So it does come from outside of us as well. But when we are in a place of receptivity within ourselves to receive love and receive joy, then it makes it so we can cultivate it within ourselves as well. So just something to put into perspective. So. So I'm curious, Michael, what brings you joy and what does joy feel like for you?
• 3:45
  Speaker B: Love it. Um, I love this topic and I. I can't believe we haven't talked about this in what, 250 some odd episodes. So it's definitely time for it. Um, great intro. I think I want to start talking about what. What I used to or what I. What joy isn't.
• 4:02
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 4:02
  Speaker B: And that'll help because that's how it kind of in my brain. So. So I used to conflate joy, and I still do sometimes joy with pleasure. And to me, I have to separate those things out because they're. They're different things and they have different impacts. They're similar, but different. So I used to, as you had so wonderfully said, chase pleasure. And I think so many of us do and call it joy. I think that was joy. So back in those days, that was sex and getting drunk and partying and having a good time and, you know, all that, all that good stuff, which is fine. There's nothing wrong with it, but those were more like quick dopamine hits that maybe felt joyous in the moment, but it was really just chasing pleasure because it never really lasted. And it was always, I was always left feeling like, I need more, I need more. And it wasn't like a fulfilling, nourishing sense of joy. It was just kind of like, yeah, like a quick hit, like a dopamine hit of pleasure. So that's not what I consider joy. I can find little aspects of pleasure in those things, but it's not the same one. Scratches an itch, kind of feels like a sugar high. Like give me this thing I wanted, I wanted and it feels good to get it and then it's gone.
• 5:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: So let me, let me start that joy then. To answer your question, to me these days, the way I define joy separately from pleasure is that it's a lot more nourishing and fulfilling and lasting. Not in that it needs to be this big grandiose thing. It really doesn't. It could be the most simple, ordinary thing. It often is, to be honest. And it's usually, even if it is something simple, it's tied to something meaningful. So for example, if I go for a morning walk, which I like to do when the weather and time allows me to, it's the most simple thing. I would just walk outside. I go a few blocks down the street and I come back. But the neighborhood I really enjoy, there's also trees, there's people walking their dogs and it's just very lovely. People say hello. Like it's just very nice. And so that's kind of tied to a deeper meaning for me when I think about, of like community and feeling safe and nature and the trees and people looking at people's gardens. Like it's the simple thing, but there's something tied to it that's, that's more, it's tied to a deeper core value, shall we call it that? And it lingers longer. Like I go for that walk in the morning and I feel like pretty set up for my day because I'm going to have a busy day or whatever's going to happen is going to happen in my workday. But that walk would have grounded me and kind of given me a good base to go by. So if I could use an analogy, one would be like pleasure to me is like a sexy one night stand with a guy that you think is hot, that's good and lovely, but then he walks out the door. Versus joy for me would be spending quality time with someone I truly love. For me it's the quality time. Because quality time is my, my love language. So it doesn't have to be about the sex. It's really just spending that time with somebody and that's the difference. So one is fun and good and it's great and that lasts whatever long asks for. But one, it really is more nourishing. So that's how I would describe it. Feeling like what it, what it feels like for me and what brings me joy. Morning coffee, morning walk. I'm thinking about my date already today. Looking outside and seeing green. I love, I love just seeing green and trees and just being around nature. Sun on my face. The warm sun on my face feels lovely. People bring me joy. My friends bring me joy. Seeing people laugh brings me joy. Seeing people smile brings me joy. I love that. Especially people I love. But just in general, I love like walking down the street and seeing people hold hands or just in love. Having a good time, that really brings me joy. Even though it's there, it's their moment, but I sense joy from that. Those are some of the easy ones or like the, the ordinary things that I would say. Bring me joy.
• 7:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. I, I never thought about that for myself. But bringing other people joy or seeing other people have joy can bring you joy.
• 7:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me at least. Yeah. Other times, if I'm in the wrong mood, other people's joy is like. That's how I know what, what state I'm in.
• 7:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. When you're in a day where you just feel like you don't want to be single and you want a relationship and you see all these happy couples around and it's like, oh, fuck you.
• 7:50
  Speaker B: Don'T be so happy in front. That's my work, though. That's for sure. My work.
• 7:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. Is happiness and joy the same thing for you or are they different?
• 7:57
  Speaker B: They're similar. I kind of use them interchangeably. I think if we're talking about moments of joy, they create a happy life overall. Knowing, of course, that both of these things are not permanent. You can feel joy in a moment and then it can turn into something else and then you can find it back. These are all emotional states that just come from. They come and go. But overall, if I look at a life, I think happiness is more of a long term state, Whereas I think joy comes in moments and pleasure comes in tiny moments. Pleasure is these tiny little moments. Joy is a bit more lasting and happiness is a greater, more grounded inner. Inner.
• 8:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I like that you use the word pleasure, because that never came up at all in my. When I was thinking about what I wanted to talk about today. And it's, it's something I want more of in my life. I want pleasure.
• 8:41
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 8:43
  Speaker A: And I think when, when, at least for me, when I think about pleasure, my mind immediately goes to like sex and orgasms and sexual pleasure. But there's pleasure all around us, right. I take pleasure in nature. I take pleasure in the sweet nectar of life, like the tastes of sweetness and ice cream. And there's so much, there's so much opportunity for us to experience pleasure. Right. And, and that can lead to joy. But I, I do agree with you that oftentimes pleasure, when we're confusing it with joy, it can lead to compulsion or addiction. And I do think that when we start moving towards finding joy, it's. It's more drawn out as opposed to these like, hits. Right. It's like a drawn out experience of. And it's, it tends to be, like you said, more simple.
• 9:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, it lingers. That's what I like. It lingers. Whereas the pleasure, for me, it hits and then it's gone. Yeah, there's a high and then a. And then a. What's the opposite of a high?
• 9:37
  Speaker A: Hello.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's been a while since we've done that. Yeah, yeah, there's a high then a drop. Whereas. Whereas I think with joy, for me, it lingers longer and it lasts a little bit longer.
• 9:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, I like that. And I can actually cultivate joy in a moment by thinking about the things that bring me joy. But I can't do that with pleasure. I can't create. When I think about the ice cream, I had, whatever, a few weeks. So I can't create pleasure in my body, really.
• 10:03
  Speaker B: Right.
• 10:03
  Speaker A: Whereas if I have a memory of a joyful thing that I had and it brought up joy in my body, I can sit here and recall that memory and I can start to feel the lingering of joy in my body. Right.
• 10:15
  Speaker B: So what are those things that bring you joy?
• 10:17
  Speaker A: Oh, God. So it's funny because when, when I was doing my research for this, I. I was going through just a bunch of things and I was going through an old note in my phone. I was going through my notes in my phone, unrelated to this, and I saw a note in my phone of what brings me joy. And I was like, oh, this is so perfect timing. And I made a list, an exhaustive list. There's like a hundred things on this list of things that bring me joy. And it's like, basically a lot of the things on the list are, like, really small things like family and things like that. But I'll just read a few of them. So. Being comfortable. Being comfortable brings me joy. I love comfort. I love being in comfortable clothes. I love being comfortable with my friends. I love being comfortable at home. I love being comfortable in the solitude of my own comfort or my own company. Right? Like, solitude for me is very, very comfortable. And it brings me joy. Google Maps brings me joy. I'm always researching, and I love my phone. My phone brings me joy because, and especially if I'm using it in a healthy way, like Google Maps. I love researching things I love. Like, I'm a. I'm a information hoarder. I love knowledge. So learning brings me joy. Sharing where I'm from brings me joy. Right? Being in the mountains, playing hockey on the outdoor rinks, flirting. The list is exhaustive. There's so many things that, that bring me joy. But I think the biggest thing for me when it comes to joy, because a lot of the things that I just listed there are things that we can do. They're things that we can. They're actions we can take to feel joy, right? And I think that's. That's really a big piece of joy. But I do think that for me, sometimes I can. Can get caught up in attachment of those things where I'm searching for joy, I'm trying to find it. I'm trying to make everything joyful. And I think that tells me that there's something missing in this moment that I'm not okay just to be in this moment if I'm constantly searching for happiness, joy, pleasure, these sorts of things. So I do think gratitude is a big piece of what brings me joy. Because I do the same as you. I go on, on walks every night, and I always focus. The beginning of my walks are gratitude. I focus on three things from the day that went well and my contribution in making them happen. And that's how I start all my walks. And I find sometimes when I get. I'm in a. I'm in the energy of comparison, I can easily get caught up in thinking about the things that I don't have. And that sucks the joy out of. Out of things very, very quickly. So gratitude for me is a big piece. Being of service is a very, very big one for me. This is my life, my Dharma. I'm literally walking a Dharma of being of service to people. And I think that's probably why I love acquiring knowledge and learning so much Because I think feel like I have a dharma of acquire and experience within my reality and then share. That's kind of how my life has always been. So there's something about sharing for me, sharing information, sharing life lessons, sharing wisdom. And that is how I am of service to people through the information I share and the connections that I make with people through that Sharing, I think, is. Is a big piece of it. And then I got a puppy. So I. I've had a very interesting summer break. So this is our first episode back from summer break. Michael and I haven't seen each other in almost three months. We truly took a break. And in that time, I got a little puppy. His name is Kootenay. He's a golden retriever. And I've always wanted a golden retriever. And I think I've told the story on this podcast about what happened when I was a kid and we had to give up our dog, who was a golden retriever. And so this has been a very healing time for me to get this dog. And it's very fascinating too, because he. He's bringing me joy. And it's like I've. I've. I've never felt this joy before. Like, I'm actually letting this little being in and like, we trust each other and we have this little relationship, and it's like, it just feels very different than any relationship I've ever had in my whole life. Like, even with. Because I've owned cats for most of my life as well. And it's. Having a dog is very different than having cats. So I would say animals is a very, very big piece of. Big piece of it and connection that with humans as well. So that's. That's, I would say, kind of the biggest thing for me. And then what joy feels like for me. Yeah, it's no secret. The last, like, three years for me has been. I haven't experienced a lot of joy, if I'm being completely honest. I've been going through a lot of grieving and a lot of healing, healing trauma and these sorts of things. So joy's been very scarce in my life. And I ended up going on medication because I was dealing with a lot of depression and things like that. So over the. Over the summer holidays, I ended up weaning off my medication. And I felt intuitively it's time, right? It's time. I have this little beautiful creature that can keep my serotonin levels up as well. And for the first time in a long time, I'm actually feeling joy. And I Was thinking about this a couple days ago or yesterday actually. I was walking and I just have this lightness about me. And so for me, joy feels light and I, I don't remember that feeling. I haven't. It's not, it's not a common feeling for me. So it just feels really good. And it feels good to have consistency of mood. Right. So for me, joy is about being consistent in having this experience that feels like happiness, you know? So, yeah, light, it feels open. It feels like I want to share myself with people. I want to let love in. That's a big part of it. So, yeah, there's, there's a lot of. It's an interesting topic that we're doing this at this time because it's, it's kind of happening for me in my life right now where I'm starting to feel more joy. So it feels good. You deserve it. Yeah. Thank you.
• 15:54
  Speaker B: And the great thing with pets and even kids, people with kids will say this is like the joy just. They don't have to try. It's just, it just comes very naturally before, at least with kids, before kids get socialized into adults. And for pets, they don't have the same obviously ego and all those socialization we have to deal with. So I think for dogs especially and a retriever, you know, they're so playful and joy filled. So it's. So it's a nice reminder to be like, wow, these, these little creatures find joy in like, you know, anything. But that's not unavailable to us as humans if we so choose. We too could also find joy in the easy things, the ordinary things. Yeah, maybe not a squirrel, but like other things.
• 16:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, right. Yeah. And it's nice because I'm having to constantly go outside with him, like every hour. So I'm outside, I don't bring my phone with me. And it's just him and I, and he's doing his business. And I'm seeing excited he gets when he finds a stick or something and his tail starts freaking out.
• 16:46
  Speaker B: Right.
• 16:47
  Speaker A: And I'm just like, this is how we are meant to be too. We're meant to be in the moment, present and simple. Simple in the ways that we navigate and find joy. But I think for a lot of us, we've really made our lives complex and full of urgency and stress and expectation to achieve and all these things, I think they, they're joy suckers. So, yeah, it is, it is really neat. And the other thing too is that he's, you know, when he, when he messes up or does something bad, and I have to scold him. Like, it's like literally 30 seconds, and then he's, like, wagging his tail. And so, like, they are so in the moment that they don't hold grudges. They don't. Right. And I'm like. So I'm learning that it's like, okay, so he's over it. So I. And then I notice how my ego and my system wants to hold on to it and be upset about it. Right. But I'm like, no, like, I can. I can let it. Let it go with the tape and just like, stay in the moment with him where we can just, you know, have a learning lesson and then move right back into Joy if we choose so. Right.
• 17:44
  Speaker B: Pets are so valuable as teachers for us if we. If we. If we want to see it that way. They can be.
• 17:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And my patience level. I didn't know I had the patience that I have. It's been like the first month has been so intense with a. With a puppy. Like, it's basically like a child. But now he's starting to learn all these behavioral things and catching on. So it's getting a little easier with past each passing day. All right, I want to hear from or we want to hear from you guys on YouTube. Pause, reflect, take a moment and let us know what brings you joy. What does joy feel like for you? How do you experience it? And drop some comments in the YouTube comment box if you want to share your voice. And we're going to continue these discussions in the Gibbon's Brotherhood sharing circles and our connection circles, where you'll have a chance to share your own experiences. Our sharing circles are our larger gatherings where one person shares at a time. Everyone's holding space, listening, learning from that person about their experience. If that feels like too much for you, then you can come to our connection circles, which are hosted by Michael and I. And we. They're smaller, more intimate, where we put you guys in breakout rooms and you can discuss the topic at hand with other people in the community that are also seekers and wanting to. To share and build connection around these topics. So you can go to Gaiman's Brotherhood.com, check out our event section to RSVP and if you don't have Facebook, get on our emailing list and we will email you the zoom link. Everything is in the show notes. Okay, let's maybe talk about a little bit of the future and how you see Joy playing a role in the next chapter of your life. So how do you Personally want to deepen your relationship with joy in the next chapter of your life?
• 19:25
  Speaker B: I think I'm on the right trajectory. I think, you know, the nature of the work we do makes it such that, you know, I'm very aware of my emotions. I'm aware of what causes me to feel a certain way. So I'm aware of what brings me joy. I'm aware of what erodes it. So I think I'm on the right trajectory. You know, comparing me today to 5, 10, even 20 years ago, I'm definitely trending more joyful. The. The hard part for me, I think, is I. I'm an ambitious high achiever, recovering perfectionist kind of person. And I have that work hard, play hard. So it's easy for me to think that joy comes after, like, joy comes in the destination. And so what I've been doing is finding the joy along the way, finding the joy in the process, finding the joy on the way there. Even regardless of the outcome, even if the outcome is not quite what I want or the. Or even if I don't even make it to the destination, the accomplishment, it's really learning that, you know, the process is where the joy is. And what I've learned is historically, if I haven't learned how to find joy on the way to the destination, when I get to the destination, it's going to be empty for me. I'll be like, okay, I did it. But, like, why am I not celebrating? Why can't I find joy here? Why am I not, like, screaming from the rooftops? And that's because joy is a skill. It's a muscle. And if you don't do it on the way to the destination, when you get there, as I've learned, it's just gonna be like, okay, well, now what? And then you go on to the next thing. And it's such a shame because you've lost this ability to, like, stop and breathe and be present and say, this is exciting. This is great. This is amazing. I did it. So that's something that I've learned, and I am doing so much better at finding the joy on the way. That's what I call it, the in between moments. So, for example, if you're going. If you're someone who goes to the gym and you're trying to, like, lose weight or trying to achieve a certain physique, don't wait until you achieve the physique to, like, find the joy. Like, even the walk on the way to the gym, if you're listening to music or Your favorite podcast. Find the joy in that or even, you know, the little milestones or the little mini accomplishments, the little moments of gratitude you can have. That, for me, has been how I want to cultivate more joy in these years and just paying attention to the things that my body says yes to. And, like, my nervous system says, oh, yeah, like, you talked about comfort there, Matt. I love that. It's like, what are the things that just naturally make me feel comfortable, make me feel good? The people who naturally. I like, I like. I just like being in their company. More of that, please. And being very intentional and conscious about, is this filling my cup? Is this nourishing me? This person, this place, this thing, this whatever, or is this not? And. And just listening, listening. Because that changes, I think, over time. That changes. I think as we get older, those things that give us joy might change, since something that did in the past doesn't anymore. That's certainly been my case. So you got to listen to it and you got to find it now. At the same time, I will say I still will love doing the things and accomplishing this stuff. I still am ambitious and a high achiever, and I love all that. But I find more joy when I actually hit those targets. I'm like, yeah, and it feels so much better because I've been practicing it the whole way there.
• 22:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm curious for you, when it comes to, like, accomplishment or achievement, what about that brings you joy?
• 22:37
  Speaker B: I think for me, it's the. I'll give you an example. Like, let's say I have an idea. I love ideas and love creation. I like taking something in my brain that's an idea, and then, like, a few months later, there it is. Like, a women's group, for example, is the most recent one I'm thinking of. Like, oh, that would be a good idea for a men's group. And like, five months later, there's like, 15 people on my zoom and we're doing it. And, like, I just feel so good with that. And I think the joy comes from the creation process. If I let it, if my perfectionist stays away and my inner critic stays away. More on that later. If I can find joy in the creation, the. Create the creative process and the fact that, like, you know, I did this, like, I. I can take an idea and turn it into reality. Like. Like the manifestation, like the magician card in tarot. It's like, I can have this thing and, like, it just brings me so much joy to create and put something into the world that benefits Other people, specifically. It's not just about me and my creation. It's something that, like, I thought that this could benefit people, and now it's benefiting people, and I'm just feeling so grateful. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker A: I like that. And we're very similar that way.
• 23:44
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:44
  Speaker A: We have the same. Well, on the pattern, we have that same dharmic thing around. I can't remember what the pattern is, but where work is basically everything.
• 23:55
  Speaker B: Yeah. And as. I mean, I know you love creation as much as I do. We both have those notes. We have. We have our notes of, like, all these ideas, and we need to get to, like, 10% of them. But, you know, I love that part that. That even just idea creation and working with people like you and working with other people who are creatives does give me joy in a connecting sense.
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. How do I personally want to deepen my relationship with Joy in the next chapter of my life? This is an interesting. I just turned 40. This is. This is exactly where I'm at. And I'm at a. I'm at a really interesting point. So I have. I had a lot to kind of say on this, and geez. So the biggest one is, like, storytelling. Storytelling stories get me into so much trouble because I have stories about what brings me joy, and my ego holds on to those things. So what ends up happening is I don't let myself be informed by other people or the universe or whatever to bring me joy. Like, and so I can recognize. And I like how you said recognizing it in your body, recognizing it in your nervous system. That. Right. Oh, yes, I'm feeling joy right now as opposed to having to tell the story of joy? Experiencing joy through the cerebral part of who we are. It's like, can I actually be more connected to my body and feel joy when it arises or feel the pain of something that might bring me closer to something that might bring me joy? A perfect example of this is the stories we tell about who we're attracted to. It's a visual thing. I'm attracted to this. This is my type. Well, what if someone that might be out of your type could bring you so much pleasure, so much joy, so much attraction, but you're not allowing yourself to be open to this person because you're telling very rigid stories about what brings you joy. Right. And I tell that story from a personal experience.
• 25:32
  Speaker B: I'm not thinking like, that sounds like me.
• 25:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. So there's. For me, there's a. There's an element of letting go and getting out of my own way so I can deepen my relationship to joy. Because if I look at the things that, that pull me away from it, it's expectations or like rigidity, control, these are the things that pull me away from that. So if I can learn how to let go and surrender more, I'm going to be more likely to experience more joy, right? So that's a piece of it. And with letting go, it's trusting, right? Trust has not been a big part of my vocabulary for the first 40 years of my life. I've been very controlled, I've been very non trusting. So I do feel like I've healed the parts of me that are, that weren't trusting. And all these protector parts that were trying to keep me safe, I've integrated a lot of them. And I do think that trust is now becoming something that I can actually see myself doing. Whereas before I couldn't even visualize myself trusting because I was like no, like no one on this planet is trustworthy. That's how I felt. And I just think now like I'm like, I'm learning how to let love in, I'm learning how to put myself out there more, these sorts of things. So I do think that, that that's gonna play a big part of it. Forgiveness, therefore too, again, once I do a lot of healing work, childhood works, like trauma work stuff, forgiveness has become a concept that I can actually also grasp and, and understand and actually employ. Because before it was again not something that I would be able to do. I would just intellectualize forgiveness and I would forgive until my next mood came around that I was angry or hateful and then I would be blaming again. And I think, so forgiveness for me has become something I have to feel in my heart, in my body, as an embodied state in order for it to actually be sustainable. So, and then off the top of your share, you're talking about productivity and achievement and these sorts of things. And you know, I'm, I'm learning right now in my life to prioritize presence over productivity because most of my life I've prioritized productivity over presence. And I've been a high achiever as well. I've been doing, doing, doing more, more, more, burning myself out. And now I'm at a chapter in my life where I want to experience more, more presence, right? And that doesn't mean that I can't achieve. But I don't necessarily know if I want to be a high achiever anymore. I think I want to be an achiever and I want to Be somebody who puts his best into something and is not a perfectionist. Right. And is. And allows room for imperfection and these sorts of things. And I think I've done enough work on myself to have this spaciousness now. And I. Because it's for me, like, you know, and again, having Kootenays teaching me this. Like, it's, like, it's not about how much I can do or how many followers or how much business I can strum up. It's not about that anymore for me. Like, I think my 40s are going to be more about taking time for myself. My 30s were about everybody else and like how much I can achieve and help people and this and that. And I want my 40s to be about me and, and about finding love and about spending time with my dog and doing hikes and. Right. So I want. I want a work life balance that I've never really had in my life before. And I do think that that's going to come from being present. And I think through presence, I'll find more joy.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. What? I have a question. Yeah. For you, because I'm. I'm two years ahead of you in the 40 and 40 thing, but I noticed the same thing when I turned 40, for whatever reason, whether it was, I don't know. But that's when I noticed some. Some of the things that used to give me a lot of joy didn't anymore. And I found sort of finding in other places. What for you have you noticed is an area that you are now finding more joy in or finding more joy with that you haven't in the past. It's like something new that's coming online. Like, oh, I'm finding a lot of joy in this thing.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: Family. To be honest, I know that sounds really horrible to even say that, but family. I'm starting to find joy in family now. Whereas before it just felt like something that wasn't bringing me joy. That's. I would say joy in my own myself, just in me. Like being with me. My own thoughts, my own feelings. Yeah. And my creations, they're bringing me joy. I feel like now I create from a place of joy. I don't create from a place of I have to do this. There's nothing in my business that I do except for this podcast where it's, I have to do this. Right. Like each week we have to put out an episode on Thursday. Right. That's the only have to left in my life. The rest of the things, I do it whenever I feel like doing it. So I'm a. I'm a batch creator. I create in batches and then I post it and I like. I like it that way because then I can continue to create from joy. I don't feel like I have to do it. It's not on my to do list to do these things. These things. And I think that's where I'm learning how to reframe things. Because I don't want my life to be full of obligations, especially because I'm an entrepreneur. Like, I want to be able to. I work for myself for that reason. I don't want to be. Have a bunch of to do lists and have dos and things like that. So, yeah, good answer. What about you?
• 30:27
  Speaker B: When I turned 40, around that time is when I really started finding so much joy in waking up early and being a morning person and going to bed early earlier. Not that I do this all the time, but I have, for whatever reason around that time, I. I don't know, I was just like, getting up early is the best. That's when I started going to the gym in the morning, which you would never catch me at the gym in the morning. But, like, anytime before, like, it was. Unless it was night time, I wasn't there. But now it's like my favorite time to go. I'm like, so jazzed to get up, have my coffee and go to the gym and then it's done. And like, like, who am I? Even my friends are like, what the is wrong? Like, you just changed. So now I've become very much a morning person. And really. And even enjoy going to bed early. Like, there's literally for me, if it's like a Saturday and I go to bed at 11, I'm very happy. There's so much joy in that. Does that happen all the time?
• 31:19
  Speaker A: No.
• 31:19
  Speaker B: Sometimes I'm out until 3, 4 in the morning, but before I would have been like, oh, my God, something's wrong, Panic, panic. But now it's like, oh, blessing, I get to go to bed early today.
• 31:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, I kind of hope that happens to me because I'm not a morning person. I don't like mornings. Once I get going, I'm fine, but I definitely am a nightmare. A night person. I like being up at night. And something that brings me joy that I started doing in the last few years is napping. It's been such a beautiful thing. Just rest. Rest brings me joy. Just not having to do a bunch of like, last. The last few years of my life has been so nice because I've created Space for myself. And I didn't do it because I wanted to do it. I did it because I had to do it. But that's the universe working its magic because. And now I'm. I've learned rest. I've. I can actually nap. Before, I was so high strung, I couldn't nap. Right. So my nervous system is actually settling, and I'm learning how to slow down. And I do think from a slowed down state is where we feel joy, where we feel pleasure and love. And these things we have to. If we're going too fast, we're bypassing the. The subtleties of life that bring us joy. Right.
• 32:20
  Speaker B: So you got to be present. You can't be so far into the future.
• 32:24
  Speaker A: Exactly. All right. Yeah. If you want to learn more about what can bring you joy and what might be blocking you from joy, we have our coaching collection. So I know for a lot of people, shame is a big thing that can block our joy. And we have a. In our coaching collection, we have our healing your shame course, Relationships can bring joy. So building. Learning how to build better relationships is another one of our courses in our coaching collection. And we also have 45 other premium personal development coaching videos for you that can help you get closer to peace and love and joy and the things that a lot of us are seeking to experience more of in our lives. Okay, so now we'll put our coach hats on. So I'm curious, what advice do you have for people who want to find more joy in their life?
• 33:09
  Speaker B: I have three here, but let's go back to the one we just said. Be present. I think that for any of these three to work, you need to be present. So I would say slow. Slow down. Especially if you're someone like me who can be a little bit fast and a little bit into the future. It really helps to slow things down. Otherwise, like I said, you won't. You won't recognize it if it's right in front of you.
• 33:29
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:30
  Speaker B: So the first thing is to train your brain to recognize that, like Matt had said in the beginning, joy is something you can find or something you can cultivate within yourself. And if you're going to find it, you got to be open to it. You got to be looking for it. You got to be able to see it. For a lot of people, the joy is right there smack in front of them, and they just blind. So training your brain, practice noticing what's already there. You do not need to spend thousands of dollars to go on an exotic vacation to find joy. It's right in your backyard if you really want it.
• 34:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Speaker B: Okay. So the second thing is not to outsource it and don't make it so difficult. Kind of like I had just said, you don't need to spend thousands of dollars. You don't need to lose 30 pounds. You don't need to have a partner. You don't. Doesn't need. It's not on Amazon. You don't need to go buy it. It's. It's literally right there. So don't. Don't think that it has to be external when you can create it. Yes. You can find it in some of these things, of course. Of course. But it's not the only place it is. So really learn where to find it within.
• 34:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:32
  Speaker B: And then finally, the last one is lower the bar. It. I use something called your portfolio of joy. It kind of sounds like your list, Matt. Your list sounds like your portfolio of joy. It's like. Like a toolbox of like, okay, where in my portfolio am I going to find joy today? And my rules for when I'm helping people build this portfolio, which is really just a list, is it has to be easy, has to be accessible, and has to be free. Free meaning you already have it. It's already there. So some of mine, going for my walk in cabbage town, being in nature. It's right over there. Just go for a walk and it's there. It's very easy telling someone I love that I love them for no reason other than to just say, I love you. Thank you for being in my life. That brings me a lot of joy. That feels really good for me. Doing something nice for a stranger, saying good morning, holding the door open. You know, just whatever it is for me brings me a lot of joy. My morning coffee, for sure. Watering my plants in the morning. So. So my thing is, I get up, I make my coffee, and then I water my plants and I kind of say hello and I see who's new. There's a new little buds coming in. And like that for me is so simple, and yet it brings me so, so much joy. Again, it's all here. I don't need to go anywhere. I can do this in my house. Going for a bike ride, a big one for me. I've said this so many times. Is listening to music, getting some of my favorite songs, singing. Even though I'm a. I'm the worst singer you will ever find. But I sing so loud and people who can hear me must hate it. But that brings me so much joy. Dancing as well. Same idea. Yeah. I got a big space here I can dance around so that all these are things that are in my portfolio of joy. So build that, you know, kind of like Matt has in his phone. Build that. Literally write it down. Like, what are the things that I can access right now, right here, without going too, too far? Making a beautiful meal and for me, putting on my Italian music, my grandparents, old music from like, you know, the 50s and 60s. It just reminds me of them and it just fills me with so much joy, really. I don't know what it is, but just something innocent. It comes. Brings back to my innocent childhood with them around and that. That brings me joy. So there's so many. Like, you could fill up this portfolio. As you can see, I'm listing a whole bunch. I'm sure listener, viewer, if you sat down into this exercise, you would also be able to list a whole lot of things that are. Not that I. Like I said, are easy, free and accessible.
• 36:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I like that. What. What's something quirky that brings you joy? You wouldn't really.
• 36:57
  Speaker B: Quirky? That brings me joy. Silence. Is that quirky?
• 37:00
  Speaker A: I wouldn't say quirky, but it's. Well, I guess it would be.
• 37:06
  Speaker B: A new butt on my plant. I get so excited and like. Like look like it's having a baby. Yeah, I get.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Oh, I love that.
• 37:16
  Speaker B: A little new, new growth on my plants. Is that quirky?
• 37:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's for sure quirky. Okay. You said something that made me think of like, anticipation. So I think a lot of times people, there's no happiness in this moment. There's no joy in this moment. I have to have something planned to look forward to to then therefore, I'm going to experience joy in that future moment.
• 37:36
  Speaker B: A vacation.
• 37:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, like, exactly. Right. So that's how we're so conditioned as human beings. When it's like, no, like, there's joy in this moment. There's happiness in this moment. So I think it's. If we can start to just cultivate. And that's the joy from within. If we're so fixated on finding joy outside of ourselves, having to buy clothes, trips, all this sort of stuff in order to find joy, there's always some joy is always out of reach. It's always in the next moment, not in this moment. Right. So how can we find joy in this moment? That's. That's where we can start to bring our attention. And that's where presence really does come into play. That's why meditation, being in the present moment you know, sitting across from someone and eye gazing with them or just smiling with them, like these are the things that bring joy because they're happening in the present moment. It's in the here and now that you're experiencing it. Right. And so my question to you, do you think joy can be vulnerable?
• 38:26
  Speaker B: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Because I think especially for men, and not, not just gaming, but men in general, I think that for whatever reason, society, we're socialized to not experience or not express joy. I think we're built, we're socialized rather to be very stoic and like nothing phases me and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna cry in the sadness and I'm not gonna laugh and celebrate and let loose in the light heartedness of life. I see that a lot with men, especially men of a certain generation. And so yes, I think it can be very vulnerable to say or to admit, like, oh my gosh, I'm having fun, I'm happy. Like, this is good, this feels good to me. I think for a lot of guys it is a very vulnerable thing to just to admit. I'm using air quotes because it's silly to say that, but to admit feeling joyful.
• 39:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I agree. It is very vulnerable for me too. When was the last time that you had a joy or a laugh attack where like you had belly laugh where your face was hurting and the back of your head muscles were hurting?
• 39:25
  Speaker B: This week I was on a call with a client actually in a session and we were laughing, we were laughing at our inner critic and it was so great. We had a, we had a really good laugh. I made. This was in my weekly newsletter today. We were, I, I asked him to like describe his inner critic for me, like what does it look like? And all these things. And he described it and he kept going and it was so funny because like I totally got it and he was, eventually we started describing it but he turned into like kind of ridiculing him and making fun of him and, and we had the greatest belly laugh about something that you wouldn't think would be funny. And it's in those moments, like who would have thought that I would have got on this call talking about like, you know, inner critic and shame and we had this hilarious laugh. And that right there is a joyful moment like that I got to share that with a client and it was really fun.
• 40:04
  Speaker A: That is so nice. So healing too. I love laughter. Laughter is a big part of joy for me and I love watching people laugh, especially Men. I love watching men laugh because it's like, especially if they have like a belly laugh and they're. They're losing control of their stoicness. And it's like, is so cute.
• 40:19
  Speaker B: That's so vulnerable. That's vulnerability right there. Control of that stoicness.
• 40:23
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it's adorable. Okay, what advice do I have for you guys to find more joy in your life? So challenge your ego. I think that's a big one, challenging the ego. Because there's often times the ego is the thing that. The ego is the part of us that's. And the is. Is the inner critic. Really. The ego is. Is an aspect of the inner critic, and the inner critic is the part that's looking around for everything that's not. Not working. Right. And looking for how, you know, everyone's against us and poor us and all these. All this is all ego crap. So if you can learn how to challenge your own ego and, and get out of your own way, then you're going to be more likely to be able to say, you know what? Ego, Check yourself. Get in the corner. I'm going to let go right now and I'm going to have some fun. I'm going to focus on what's going well in my life. Right? That's a big piece of it. And I know this one all too well. But grief, like, grief is such a big one. And that was all of our topics last month. It's just so important to grieve because grieve, unprocessed grief is sorrow. And I think sorrow is the opposite of joy. Right? So if we're, if we haven't processed our childhood or the things that we've experienced in life, our heart. Our heart, and we have this heaviness in our. In our system, in our bodies, then it's gonna be really hard to feel the lightness of joy in our body. And it's gonna feel like we're trying to always grab on to. To joy, as in an. As an intellectual concept. I want. I'll think positive thoughts and then I'll feel joy. Well, it doesn't really work that way. Right. It can work that way, but oftentimes when we have a bunch of unprocessed crap in our system, we need to feel it. We need to learn how to feel grief so we can therefore then feel more joy. So I would say those are the two things that are, like, more on the pain point side and as far as, like, solutions or things you can move towards a gratitude practice daily gratitude Practice where you're not just playing around with gratitude as an intellectual concept, you're playing with it as an embodied concept. So you use the intellect to then therefore drop down into the body and feel gratitude, not just think gratitude. I think that's a big, big differentiation between the two. Because when you start to cultivate gratitude from a felt sense, it starts to actually grow inside the body and you can start to feel it more and you can have access to it more. So I think that's a big one. Play. Play is so important. What brings you joy in the sense of play? You know, I think that you look at, I have a nephew who's 6 years old and he's just always playing and he's just full of joy. And the times that he's not in joy is when he has to come in from outside because he can't play because he has to eat right. So when he's playing he's just in pure joy. So what, what can you do that's going to bring you into more play, I think is a big piece of it. And then giving yourself permission to feel joy without guilt or apprehensiveness that the joy is going to be taken away from you, you're going to feel disappointed. Just let give yourself permission to say, you know what, today I'm going to feel joy. Set the intention for joy in your life and I think that's going to allow you to again bring that focus towards joy. And then when you're focusing on something, you're more likely to attract it.
• 43:22
  Speaker B: So yeah, well said. And if I may, I have a story about, well, two of them, but I'll still stick with one about play. I love that, I love that you mentioned. That's definitely another one. I would add to that to my previous answer about how I, I want to or how I've learned to tap into more joy as I, as I enter the next chapter of my life is making making play a priority or as I think in our culture, in the western culture, play is something you do as a kid and then you get old and then no one has time for that. That's, that's child's play. But I think play in the adult sense is something that I've learned to prioritize and reconnect with. Re, as in. For me, a lot of the stuff that I play in are the very same things I would have played in as a kid as that six year old boy. So my story is I was at the cottage recently, this summer and we had a Lot of fallen sticks from. From ice storm we had in the winter. And we have a big fire pit by the lake. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna just go gather all these dead, dry sticks that have kind of fallen all over the place and go put them in the fire and burn them, thinking, okay, this is something I'm gonna do. It's, you know, nice thing to do. Five minutes in, I felt like a little kit, like, ooh, let's find this stick, and let's burn this stick. And like, I started adding them to the fire and then burning it and like, well, let's go get more, and let's go get more. And I was having so much fun playing outside, my hands all dirty, gathering sticks to burn in a fire pit. I don't. I can't not tell you how happy and joyful that was for me. And it was like the simplest thing.
• 44:44
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 44:45
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker A: That's adorable. We would be best little buddies. I would be right there with you finding sticks.
• 44:52
  Speaker B: I know. That's why. That's why I wanted to mention it. But, yeah, play. It's not something small or. Or insignificant. As adults, in fact, I think it's more important, especially in the world we live in when we get so caught up in our productivity and to do and responsibility and duty. Making play a priority is such a great, great response to that.
• 45:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. The last thing I'll add is acts of kindness. Share yourself, share the things you have. Give compliments to people, make someone smile, these sorts of things. Because I really do believe that joy is contagious. It's infectious. And when we create joy in another person, we feel it as well. We're all connected. And so, yeah, share your joy.
• 45:35
  Speaker B: Amen.
• 45:36
  Speaker A: Any closing thoughts from you?
• 45:39
  Speaker B: No, I think we covered a lot of ground here. Yeah. Joy isn't something we necessarily have to find, although we can. But I really want to underline the fact that it's not about chasing extraordinary things in your life. It's really about just seeing the ordinary right in front of you.
• 45:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I like that. And just even saying, I welcome more joy into my life, or I welcome joy into my life today.
• 46:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, right.
• 46:01
  Speaker A: Like, that's a perfect sentence or a mantra for setting an intention for it. Welcome it in. Right. And just see what happens. It's pretty amazing.
• 46:08
  Speaker B: That's the challenge for the listener right now. Wherever you are, wherever you're watching this or listening to this, look around. You look around and find those. Those joyful things right in front of you.
• 46:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, thank you, Michael, for sharing all your wisdom and coming on and doing our thing. Thank you to the listener, viewer for tuning in to yet another episode. We've been going deeper. Again, just a reminder, this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you want to make a donation, you can hit the thanks button on YouTube, you can go to a link in the show Notes, and you can go to Early Access option on Apple. Apple. And those three things help support the community. Hopefully we'll see you at one of our circles, Connection Circle or Sharing Circle. And for everything GMB, go to GaimansBrotherhood. Com. Much love, everybody.