Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Adam Tank: Anti-Disruption: Selling Innovation to an Industry That Hates Risk | Make Water Work 035

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Adam Tank: Anti-Disruption: Selling Innovation to an Industry That Hates Risk | Make Water Work 035 · Make Water Work Podcast

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  That's not really the big problem. The
• 0:02
  big problem is in the construction and
• 0:03
  repair side. So when we have to dig up a
• 0:05
  street and get permits and close down
• 0:08
  businesses and right communicate with
• 0:10
  the public and all that stuff, it's a
• 0:11
  massive pain. Not a popular opinion in
• 0:13
  the water sector is that I actually
• 0:16
  don't think we need as much innovation
• 0:18
  in water as people think. We actually
• 0:21
  need more innovation in energy. One of
• 0:23
  the biggest causes of failure in this
• 0:26
  industry from an infrastructure
• 0:27
  perspective is that we don't spend
• 0:28
  enough time in the planning phase of
• 0:30
  projects. I want to create a disruptive
• 0:34
  technology. It's like that's the last
• 0:36
  thing they want to hear. Welcome to the
• 0:39
  Make Waterwork podcast where we dive
• 0:42
  into the people, ideas, and innovation
• 0:44
  shaping the future of water. I'm your
• 0:47
  host, Isaac Pellerin. Each week, I share
• 0:51
  conversations and stories with leaders,
• 0:53
  community champions, and innovators who
• 0:55
  are making water work for everyone.
• 0:58
  Whether you're a water professional, a
• 1:00
  curious innovator, or simply passionate
• 1:02
  about our most precious resource, this
• 1:05
  podcast is for you. Let's get started.
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  Hello everyone and welcome to the Make
• 1:10
  Waterwork podcast. I'm Isaac Pellerin,
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  the senior vice president of corporate
• 1:15
  strategy at 120 Water. I'm really
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  excited to welcome Adam Tank from
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  Transcend to the podcast. Adam has been
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  a longtime friend. Um he's also the
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  co-founder and chief communications
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  officer at Transcend and then he engages
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  a ton in the water community. Um you can
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  find him on social. He has a um a
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  wonderful podcast that he hosts um
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  co-hosts with Jim Lauria called What are
• 1:41
  We Talking About? Um and that's a
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  phenomenal podcast. He's also written a
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  handful of books. Um really thinks
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  deeply about design thinking and what it
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  takes to solve problems. And so um it's
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  an honor to get to have uh this
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  conversation finally with you, Adam.
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  Welcome to the podcast.
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  >> Thank you, Isaac. And shameless plug,
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  you were on my podcast or Gemini's
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  podcast as well. So for those listening,
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  go take a look at that one. It was a
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  good one.
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  >> Yeah. Yeah. That was where I got the
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  bug. That's where I got got my start,
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  you know. It was it was that was kind of
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  my first my first podcast and so you
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  kind of had me there. I'm like this this
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  is a this would be a really fun way to
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  have just natural conversations with
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  people that we see each other at
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  conferences. It's you know you bump into
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  each other but to actually get down to
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  have a uh sit down and have a a
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  conversation and then let other people
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  listen in um is just a joy. And so um
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  this podcast much like yours you you
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  kind of have this one question that you
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  ask in a really creative way. Mine is a
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  little less creative. I'm not going to
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  ask you what one message if you were
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  flying a flight an airplane around the
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  world what you would want that one
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  message to say. So instead, I'm going to
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  say I've never met anyone who didn't
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  have a story about how water found them.
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  And so Adam, let's take us through how
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  water found you. Um, how did you get
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  here? I owe it all to Ralph Xton, who is
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  currently the I'll probably butcher
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  this, but it's either president or
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  executive director of the Water
• 3:10
  Environment Federation. Ralph actually
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  interviewed me when I was in graduate
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  school for an internship, a graduate
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  level internship with with General
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  Electric's water group. And I had no
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  background in water. I had a background
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  in science and microbiology and
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  obviously I was in business school so
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  some business uh some business work but
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  didn't know anything about water and he
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  was willing to take a shot on me and I
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  interned with him or under him uh in the
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  in for a summer between my first and
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  second year of graduate school and I
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  fell in love with the water industry and
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  when I graduated I went to work for GE
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  full-time and never looked back.
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  >> That's that's amazing. And um from GE,
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  how did your um kind of career um play
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  out to um take us from there to
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  transcend? And I'll also say before you
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  get into that, like it was my first time
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  meeting you at meeting you was at um
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  Imagine H2O in 2019.
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  And you um you were there kind of in
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  this like mentorship role, speed dating
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  with all of us new um new startups that
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  were there. Um kind of saying like,
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  "Hey, tell us about the water industry.
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  Here's what we're thinking." And just
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  giving us really amazing um feedback
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  about, you know, um yeah, giving us the
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  good, the bad, the the good, the bad,
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  and the ugly. Um and so yeah, let's take
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  us from you're in GE. um thanks to Ralph
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  and then um you had a handful of other
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  tenures. Um walk us through that.
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  >> Yeah, so so at GE I was responsible
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  eventually ended up being responsible
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  for venture capital investments in the
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  water sector and I was was doing
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  diligence on hundreds of early stage
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  water tech companies to determine if we
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  wanted to make investments in any of
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  them. And the single biggest issue that
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  I kept hearing from water utilities who
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  were ultimately going to be the customer
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  in many cases for these water startups
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  was this whole concept of non-revenue
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  water. And it's still a problem today.
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  Hasn't gone anywhere. A lot of companies
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  still trying to solve it. And I'll never
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  forget the conversation I had with it
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  was the head of innovation at American
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  Water at the time. And he said, you
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  know, I'm tired of all these companies
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  that can tell me where my my leaks are.
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  That's not really the big problem. The
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  big problem is in the construction and
• 5:33
  repair side. So when we have to dig up a
• 5:35
  street and get permits and close down
• 5:37
  businesses and right communicate with
• 5:39
  the public and all that stuff, it's a
• 5:41
  massive pain.
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  >> So if we could find a way to repair
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  these pipes without the need to dig up
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  streets, that would be a gamecher for
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  me. And so I had this idea that I could
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  build a robot that would patch portable
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  water pipelines from the inside while
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  they were still in service. And I
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  fortunately got to spin a business out
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  of General Electric and have it funded
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  by their venture group. And I moved to
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  San Francisco and ran a water robotics
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  company for a number of years. Uh that
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  was then acquired. And then after that
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  uh I went to work for Suez to lead their
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  smart cities group for about a year and
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  I got the startup itch again and decided
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  to join my now co-founder Ari to create
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  transcend. So that was you know what
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  April of 2019 and we officially founded
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  transcend in December of 2019 and I
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  can't believe it's been seven years
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  almost. It's wild.
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  >> Yeah. Yeah, that is wild. I think that's
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  when I met you when you were just coming
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  um out of Suez and um kind of had uh
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  were holding the cards close to the vest
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  of of what was next for you.
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  >> But um but yeah um you know really
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  really helpful and I think that's like
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  to me one of the things that stands out
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  is just that listening to the customer.
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  I think it's easy for folks who are
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  creating solutions to be like, whoa,
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  what if we could find them all? Like on
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  your no non-revenue water thing, it's
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  like we're there's there's so many
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  solutions to help find more of them
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  faster with higher accuracy, but if
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  there's no so what when when you find
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  it, um which problem is the most painful
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  one to solve? Um and so um yeah, which
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  is a tough answer if you're an innovator
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  on the software side is like I can spin
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  up an algorithm and like
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  >> it's super it's super important though.
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  I like that lesson is one of the most
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  important for early stage entrepreneurs
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  especially the the innovator
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  technologist types who believe in this
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  >> uh fallacy that is if you build it they
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  will come. So if I build this amazing
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  technology everyone's going to buy it.
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  But ultimately, if the customer doesn't
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  see the value in it or you're not
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  solving the actual problem or it doesn't
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  have the features that they are actually
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  looking for, then you're going to waste
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  a ton of time and money
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  >> building something that nobody wants.
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  So, I always encourage people. So, like
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  with this robotics company as an
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  example, I went to Clifford Chan at East
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  Bay Mud and he was leading their
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  engineering group at the time and this
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  was before I had developed anything
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  related to the robot. It was just an
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  idea. And I walked into his office and I
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  said, "Hey,
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  >> I have nothing to sell you. I'm just
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  planning to spend the next who knows how
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  many years of my life and millions of
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  dollars building this robot and I want
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  to make sure that when I do it and it's
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  built that it actually, you know, helps
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  you and it actually solves the problems
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  that you have relative to leaks in your
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  network. And he was so appreciative of
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  that because most people come in and
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  they're like, "Here's my mouse trap and
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  here's why it's better than your current
• 8:47
  mousetrap and you should buy hundreds or
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  thousands of them." And
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  >> so instead he basically gave me the
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  product requirements I needed to build
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  this robot and made sure that we started
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  off on the right foot and that was a
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  game changer for us.
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  >> That's amazing. And I think you know I
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  think you and I will um resonate with
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  this but there's you know you can't
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  underestimate the value of getting to
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  spend time with with your customer. And
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  if you're actually curious, actually
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  listening, they're going to guide you to
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  what um what solution they're really
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  looking for. And that can be a that can
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  be a challenge um to um kind of get out
• 9:28
  of your own way and say, "I have a
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  really good idea that I'm in love with
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  of what the solution could be, but am I
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  willing to listen enough to
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  um what I'm hearing?" And also be able
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  to hear behind their their own words the
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  pain and the problem that they're really
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  trying to solve. cuz I think we could
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  also both say sometimes the words
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  they're using or the pain they're
• 9:54
  describing. There might be something
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  underneath it is actually more
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  game-changing. And so you don't just
• 9:59
  always build exactly to their
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  specifications or those kind of things.
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  You kind of uh make sure you peel the
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  onion um a little bit further. Um I'd
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  love to ask you when it comes to
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  adoption of innovation what kind of
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  things um have you seen over um over the
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  time especially at transcend like like
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  um how is the industry evolving in its
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  ability to adopt? I see a lot of promise
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  a lot more promise than I have
• 10:30
  historically seen. So, I'm seeing a lot
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  more accelerators, incubators, startup
• 10:35
  competitions, pitch challenges, venture
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  investments, all of these things
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  happening that historically we haven't
• 10:42
  had in the industry, which is phenomenal
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  to see.
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  >> I think we're still really early on
• 10:47
  figuring out how to actually scale some
• 10:49
  of those processes and programs and
• 10:51
  build them into, you know, robust
• 10:54
  solutions for bringing innovation into
• 10:55
  the sector. But at least we have a much
• 10:58
  better foundation than we used to. So,
• 11:00
  you know, shout out to to folks like
• 11:02
  Savon Zamir at Zyllem who has created an
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  incredible program with the Zyllem
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  Innovation Labs and then also of course
• 11:08
  has stood up the the venture investment
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  arm with Max Sto.
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  >> That that is one of the best models for
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  corporate innovation that I have seen in
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  the water industry to date. So, massive
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  shout out to her. You know, transcend
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  wise, it's interesting because we serve
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  three different sectors of the market.
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  So any major player in a critical
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  infrastructure project in water we touch
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  and so we touch the water technology
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  vendors who are selling into water
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  wastewater treatment plants. We touch
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  the engineering consultants who are
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  doing the design and in some cases
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  project management uh maybe even
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  construction if they have those arms and
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  then we have the utility themselves and
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  we sell to all three. So we get to see
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  the level of adoption and interest and
• 11:49
  sort of innovation I guess across all
• 11:51
  three of those. And it's it's
• 11:53
  drastically different among those three
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  for many different reasons. But the one
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  thing I will say in all of this is that
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  >> the single biggest driver of innovation
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  in the sector is your ability to manage
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  or mitigate risk in a project.
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  That is the key word that I don't think
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  a lot of water technology vendors think
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  about and certainly startups is around
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  risk management, risk mitigation. So a
• 12:21
  lot of times people will go in and sell
• 12:23
  >> I can save you a ton of money or I
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  whatever the value prop is. Very rarely
• 12:28
  do you hear I will help you better
• 12:30
  manage your risk on a capital program or
• 12:33
  on a specific project or whatever that
• 12:36
  thing may be. That is the language that
• 12:39
  is is key for utilities because
• 12:42
  ultimately they are stewards of public
• 12:43
  health and to the degree that they risk
• 12:46
  things that's that's bad news because
• 12:48
  everyone consumes our products and we
• 12:50
  don't want people to get hurt. So
• 12:53
  >> yeah. Yeah, that's that's a great point
• 12:55
  and it's such a it's a it is such a
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  ironic juxtiposition of the way that you
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  know the um the startup or
• 13:05
  entrepreneurial brain kind of overs
• 13:08
  subscribes on how much risk like you
• 13:10
  know if it doesn't have risk it's just
• 13:12
  not fun like we want a lot of risk. Um,
• 13:15
  but when we're selling to someone whose
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  value is like, no, my number one job is
• 13:22
  to create is to make decisions that are
• 13:24
  the most derisked.
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  I got to derisk every decision I make
• 13:29
  and understand how to communicate the
• 13:31
  impact of that and saying this decision
• 13:35
  kept us from
• 13:37
  being out of compliance, having
• 13:39
  something break down the line. And it's
• 13:42
  such a tough
• 13:45
  um it's a tough mindset to adjust to if
• 13:48
  you're just thinking I want to create a
• 13:51
  disruptive technology. It's like that's
• 13:54
  the last thing they want to hear. They
• 13:56
  do not want to hear disruption. Like
• 13:59
  don't disrupt anything. Um I hate
• 14:02
  disruption. And so it's um oh man, it
• 14:06
  just is it can take a minute to adjust
• 14:08
  to that when you're excited about the
• 14:10
  new thing you've created and you see
• 14:12
  disruption in the market, but they're
• 14:16
  they're the stewards of systems that
• 14:19
  need to not have disruption. Um so it's
• 14:23
  really fun to play with play with those
• 14:25
  words and that and that mindset. pulling
• 14:28
  on that thread as well like you know
• 14:31
  you've in your own um speaking podcast
• 14:35
  you have hundreds thousands of
• 14:37
  conversations as well. I'm kind of
• 14:40
  curious um in all your conversations
• 14:42
  what themes kind of pop up whether about
• 14:45
  the industry or just about um you know
• 14:48
  human design thinking in general. It can
• 14:50
  be you can answer one or both of those
• 14:53
  angles.
• 14:55
  The one that always comes up and always
• 14:57
  has come up is the slow conservative
• 14:59
  nature of this industry. I would almost
• 15:03
  expect nothing different to be honest
• 15:05
  with you because to that risk point as
• 15:08
  stewards of public health
• 15:10
  >> we have to be slow and methodical and
• 15:13
  conservative because what we do can
• 15:16
  seriously harm not only individual
• 15:18
  humans but also impact cities and
• 15:21
  societies at large if things aren't done
• 15:24
  well. So we have to be methodical about
• 15:26
  the way that we go about things. And a
• 15:28
  lot of the folks in this industry are
• 15:29
  highly technical. So they want to dig
• 15:31
  into the data. They want to understand
• 15:33
  how things work. They really want to,
• 15:35
  you know, you bring them a machine and
• 15:37
  they want to crack it open and see the
• 15:38
  see the inner workings of it
• 15:40
  >> and really get down to the, you know,
• 15:41
  the nitty-gritty. So that's one thing
• 15:43
  that always comes up and a lot of people
• 15:45
  hate that about the industry but it's
• 15:47
  just the reality and you have to learn
• 15:48
  how to work with it and it can work in
• 15:50
  your favor if you are talking to the
• 15:53
  right value of what you bring relative
• 15:55
  to risk and safety and right call it
• 15:57
  like anti-disruption or whatever the
• 15:59
  term is that we want to coin on this on
• 16:01
  this podcast. Um, the second one and the
• 16:04
  the reason that I started a podcast was
• 16:07
  that I would say it's generally known or
• 16:11
  believed at least in my small bubble of
• 16:13
  the water industry that we are horrible
• 16:15
  about communicating the value of what we
• 16:18
  do to the public.
• 16:20
  >> I mean, prime example, I was with my mom
• 16:22
  and one of her friends just this week,
• 16:25
  two nights ago.
• 16:26
  >> And her friend lives in Tucson, Arizona.
• 16:30
  And in Tucson, of course, they're in the
• 16:32
  middle of a desert, so water is a big
• 16:34
  topic of conversation. And there's a new
• 16:36
  water treatment plant being built
• 16:38
  nearby. And she I didn't look this up
• 16:41
  yet, so I don't know if this is true,
• 16:42
  but here's what she told me. And
• 16:43
  perception in this case is reality
• 16:45
  because she is the public that the water
• 16:47
  utility is is
• 16:49
  >> communicating with.
• 16:51
  >> She said that they're calling the
• 16:52
  project toilet to tap. I don't know if
• 16:55
  that's the utility saying that or that's
• 16:57
  the media saying that or that's just
• 16:59
  what the public is like picked up on,
• 17:01
  but it is a it is a massive incredible
• 17:04
  reuse project.
• 17:06
  >> That should be getting all of the public
• 17:08
  press.
• 17:10
  >> But instead, the only thing in her mind
• 17:11
  is like, I'm going to be drinking
• 17:13
  sewage.
• 17:14
  >> And it's like, if if if right, this is a
• 17:17
  big if. I don't know this to be true,
• 17:18
  but if it is true that the utility is
• 17:20
  publicly communicating that line to the
• 17:23
  public, that is a perfect example of the
• 17:26
  just the terrible job we are doing of
• 17:29
  engaging with the public. So, that's the
• 17:30
  other thing and that's the reason I
• 17:31
  started the podcast is because we have
• 17:32
  to help the water industry tell better
• 17:34
  stories, communicate better, be more
• 17:36
  proactive and uh it's one that I'm
• 17:39
  really passionate about.
• 17:40
  >> Yeah. Yeah. And it makes sense like for
• 17:43
  those of us in the industry, we can get
• 17:44
  real excited when it's like, whoa, you
• 17:46
  can you can create a process that
• 17:48
  shortens the distance between waste
• 17:51
  water and drinking water and all the
• 17:54
  tests prove it works and we can
• 17:56
  celebrate that and get excited about it.
• 17:58
  No one wants to take that much time to
• 18:00
  learn about the process. We just want
• 18:02
  things to work and not have to think
• 18:05
  about it, which is the hardest part. You
• 18:08
  know, I think if there's anything that
• 18:09
  we always are wrestling with from a
• 18:12
  communications standpoint, um you know,
• 18:15
  I've been to uh Catalyst a handful of
• 18:17
  times with um uh Chelsea Boozer now and
• 18:21
  and all the work that that she's doing
• 18:23
  there to help um help the water
• 18:27
  communication
• 18:28
  um really um really step it up and and
• 18:32
  help us all connect.
• 18:34
  But it's that odd the oddness of like
• 18:37
  every other technology that we create,
• 18:40
  you know, whether it's like iPhone
• 18:41
  design principles, most technologists
• 18:44
  are like, hey, how can we make sure the
• 18:46
  technology gets out of the way? We want
• 18:48
  it to be as invisible as possible so
• 18:50
  that people are just thinking about
• 18:52
  what's in front of them. They're getting
• 18:53
  their outcome achieved and not really
• 18:55
  thinking about the technology. That's
• 18:56
  when it's super valuable. We have the
• 18:59
  opposite problem in water where it
• 19:01
  naturally is out of the way and
• 19:03
  invisible and we have to find ways to
• 19:05
  insert a like, hey, you're welcome. The
• 19:08
  tap, you turned on the tap, a lot of
• 19:10
  things went in to help that and we need
• 19:12
  to bring some awareness of it without it
• 19:14
  being disruptive again. Um, yeah, I'm
• 19:17
  I'm really excited to figure out
• 19:19
  whenever someone cracks that code, but
• 19:22
  it's really just going to take
• 19:23
  consistency um of communication. Um,
• 19:27
  yeah. But I I love I love that story.
• 19:30
  Yeah. Hearing it directly from from
• 19:32
  someone in in the community. And it is
• 19:35
  it funny like do you get this too
• 19:36
  because everyone knows you work in the
• 19:38
  water industry. If you're in at a family
• 19:40
  event, it's like, hey, this happened.
• 19:43
  What is it? I don't know why they gave a
• 19:45
  boil water advisory, but it was probably
• 19:47
  a good good thing that they communicated
• 19:49
  it.
• 19:50
  >> Mhm. Yes. Yeah. I I get asked questions
• 19:52
  everything from like this toilet to tap
• 19:54
  thing to what's the best shower head you
• 19:56
  recommend.
• 19:59
  Everything in between. Yeah. But looking
• 20:02
  ahead, I'd love to know where you see
• 20:04
  some of the biggest opportunity for um
• 20:08
  for tech and innovation um in in the
• 20:11
  water space.
• 20:14
  Oh man.
• 20:17
  Uh, there's so much out there that is
• 20:20
  exciting to me. I'm a techno optimist
• 20:24
  by nature. So, I just get excited about
• 20:27
  the future of of all the things.
• 20:29
  Obviously, AI is very invogue right now.
• 20:32
  Um, and quite frankly, it has been for
• 20:34
  quite some time. It's just been
• 20:36
  different flavors of kind of the same
• 20:38
  thing for many, many years from at least
• 20:40
  from what I've witnessed. But I do think
• 20:42
  that starting this year, like January of
• 20:45
  this year, the ability for AI to
• 20:50
  meaningfully create products that are
• 20:52
  valuable sort of out of the box without
• 20:54
  a whole lot of technical effort is just
• 20:57
  remarkable.
• 20:59
  >> And so I think that we are going to, you
• 21:00
  know, we have these technical people in
• 21:02
  the industry, a lot of engineering
• 21:04
  folks, a lot of folks that probably
• 21:05
  tinker on the side at home because they
• 21:07
  they're woodworkers or they're
• 21:08
  programming or they're building, right?
• 21:10
  whatever the ability now for AI to help
• 21:13
  them build things I think will help
• 21:15
  proliferate innovation in the sector. So
• 21:18
  I'm very very bullish on the ability for
• 21:21
  AI to make a massive impact in not only
• 21:24
  like the you know the lives of the
• 21:26
  people who are using it but just like
• 21:27
  the mindset generally in this industry
• 21:30
  like
• 21:32
  >> you can you yourself can do something
• 21:35
  like this. Just imagine what a company
• 21:37
  who's been focused on doing this for
• 21:39
  many many years can do for you when they
• 21:42
  have a full team of resources
• 21:44
  >> that are working with this technology.
• 21:46
  like it it just it completely cracks
• 21:48
  people's minds open in the best way
• 21:49
  possible to what innovation can mean. So
• 21:52
  I'm super excited about that. Um I think
• 21:54
  reuse will continue to be a big topic. I
• 21:56
  think we'll probably continue to see
• 21:58
  emerging contaminants and focus on
• 22:00
  emerging contaminants or contaminants of
• 22:02
  concern. So PAS obviously was was a big
• 22:05
  one over the last few years. We'll sort
• 22:07
  of see what happens with that. Um
• 22:10
  there's you know plenty more on the
• 22:11
  horizon that people are talking about.
• 22:13
  So I think we'll probably start to see
• 22:14
  some either different ways of treating
• 22:15
  or more innovative ways of treating. And
• 22:17
  then the final one I will say that is
• 22:21
  not a popular opinion in the water
• 22:22
  sector is that I actually don't think we
• 22:25
  need as much innovation in water as
• 22:27
  people think. We actually need more
• 22:30
  innovation in energy. Because if we can
• 22:32
  solve the energy equation, then we
• 22:34
  basically have all the water we need,
• 22:37
  >> you know, with with unlimited sort of
• 22:39
  clean energy and that's proliferated
• 22:42
  everywhere.
• 22:42
  >> We can basically deselinate all the
• 22:44
  water that we need to and pipe it and
• 22:46
  pump it everywhere we need to
• 22:48
  >> and that makes a lot of uh our
• 22:49
  conversations around clean water
• 22:52
  irrelevant because we'll have all the
• 22:54
  clean water we need. Yeah, that is that
• 22:56
  is a great point and I I'm curious about
• 22:59
  your take on this because this is more
• 23:00
  of a something that I wonder about but I
• 23:03
  haven't really gone too deep um into it
• 23:05
  yet is as we have the you know emerging
• 23:11
  conversation I think more than more than
• 23:13
  people being concerned about emerging
• 23:15
  contaminants right now the public is
• 23:17
  concerned about um the the emerging of
• 23:21
  data centers popping up all over and and
• 23:24
  what that means or doesn't mean about
• 23:26
  water quality and their energy bills.
• 23:28
  Um, but it to me it seems like it's
• 23:31
  bringing the two conversations together
• 23:34
  where where what if there's anything
• 23:36
  good happening from
• 23:39
  all of the um tension in in those
• 23:42
  conversations. It's that we're realizing
• 23:45
  that it takes energy to move, treat,
• 23:49
  whatever you want to do with water.
• 23:51
  Moving it is expensive. Water is heavy.
• 23:54
  So there's I think we're starting to
• 23:56
  have like an actual container for the
• 23:59
  conversation of
• 24:00
  >> the water and energy relationship. Um
• 24:03
  and even you know Ralph over at WE like
• 24:07
  last year there's there's now this AI
• 24:09
  and water nexus which is kind of seems
• 24:12
  to be more of what you're talking about.
• 24:15
  It's an energy and water conversation
• 24:17
  that that we're having. It's just AI and
• 24:20
  data centers is kind of giving us the
• 24:21
  container to um have some parameters
• 24:24
  about how we want to have the
• 24:25
  conversation.
• 24:27
  >> So there was a stat I read many years
• 24:28
  ago around
• 24:30
  the total energy consumption in the
• 24:33
  state of California and what that energy
• 24:36
  was used for. And at the time it was
• 24:39
  something like well over 50% of all of
• 24:42
  the energy consumed in California was
• 24:45
  water related. So that's either water
• 24:47
  treatment, water distribution,
• 24:49
  irrigation,
• 24:51
  like it's an incredible amount of
• 24:54
  energy.
• 24:55
  >> And so you're right, data centers are
• 24:56
  sort of forcing that conversation. Um,
• 24:59
  >> and it's it's we're seeing public
• 25:02
  backlash
• 25:04
  all over the place around water and
• 25:07
  energy usage um in water specifically,
• 25:09
  which I think is interesting. And to me,
• 25:11
  it's like like traditional PR saying,
• 25:14
  don't let a good crisis go to waste.
• 25:16
  Right? Like we we as an industry should
• 25:18
  be using this opportunity to have those
• 25:20
  conversations and be proactive about the
• 25:22
  messaging that we're putting out there
• 25:24
  around water because we can quite easily
• 25:26
  branch that into the work that we're
• 25:28
  already doing that people aren't aware
• 25:29
  of and it brings more eyeballs on the
• 25:32
  sector which I think is a great thing.
• 25:33
  >> Totally agree. I think and I almost to
• 25:36
  your point earlier about um you know the
• 25:41
  non-revenue water and and there being
• 25:44
  more needs around permitting and like
• 25:47
  it's all the coordination of actually
• 25:49
  fixing that's difficult. I think the
• 25:52
  same holds true um here that one of the
• 25:55
  barriers to communication about these
• 25:58
  projects is um is the proliferation of
• 26:02
  NDAs and what and how soon water
• 26:05
  utilities are brought into the
• 26:06
  conversation in the first place um and
• 26:09
  what they're allowed to or not allowed
• 26:11
  to um talk about. And so I'm I'm also
• 26:14
  excited about some of the frameworks
• 26:16
  that are that are evolving and
• 26:18
  developing around this um that kind of
• 26:21
  help us say, "Hey, we need to get more
• 26:23
  information out earlier. We need to talk
• 26:25
  more about what we're doing and how
• 26:29
  we're managing the resources and the
• 26:31
  impact um to to our communities because
• 26:34
  it's it doesn't help to say there isn't
• 26:36
  an impact." It is it does help to say,
• 26:39
  "Hey, here's what we're working with.
• 26:40
  Here's the impact. here's the value,
• 26:43
  here are the trade-offs we're making.
• 26:44
  Um, and involve the community as as much
• 26:47
  as you can. Um, but that is that almost
• 26:50
  is the challenge right now, I feel like,
• 26:52
  of of water utility leaders is to force
• 26:58
  themselves into those conversations. be
• 27:01
  being getting uncomfortable saying,
• 27:03
  "Hey, I need to be proactive with my
• 27:06
  city manager, with my mayor, with my um
• 27:08
  town to say, "Hey, if as this emerges,
• 27:11
  make sure I have a seat at the table as
• 27:13
  early as possible to be part of this
• 27:15
  conversation. Don't bring me in after
• 27:17
  the fact." Um because they're often the
• 27:19
  ones
• 27:21
  um taking all the hits um and and
• 27:24
  they're sitting there like, "I just
• 27:25
  found out 30 days ago, too." like um
• 27:30
  yeah, it can be really challenging.
• 27:32
  >> I think the the last question I' I'd
• 27:34
  love to ask you too is just um just tell
• 27:36
  us actually a little bit more about
• 27:38
  transcend um what transcend is, what it
• 27:42
  does and um and the impact that it's
• 27:44
  having in the industry.
• 27:46
  So we believe that the one of the
• 27:50
  biggest causes of failure in this
• 27:52
  industry from an infrastructure
• 27:53
  perspective is that we don't spend
• 27:54
  enough time in the planning phase of
• 27:57
  projects. 80% or more of the outcomes
• 28:01
  for any given project whether you look
• 28:03
  at the capex opex sustainability
• 28:06
  community impact are made in the
• 28:09
  planning phase but that is the phase
• 28:11
  that we almost spend the least amount of
• 28:14
  time in relative to the entirety of a
• 28:16
  project. And so we
• 28:19
  >> spend this much time planning and
• 28:20
  assessing hardly you know just a handful
• 28:23
  of options for what a facility could
• 28:25
  look like. And then we spend the next 10
• 28:27
  years designing, constructing, building,
• 28:30
  and then hopefully operating.
• 28:32
  And then we realize, oh wow, like this
• 28:35
  thing isn't what we needed it to be or
• 28:37
  so much has changed in our community
• 28:39
  that we actually needed something
• 28:40
  different. And so then we spend the
• 28:42
  next, you know, 2, three, four, five,
• 28:43
  six
• 28:44
  >> or more decades chasing our tails. And
• 28:47
  so transcend is squarely focused on that
• 28:50
  planning and preliminary design phase
• 28:52
  where we give the people responsible
• 28:56
  >> engineers, capital planning teams, water
• 28:58
  technology vendors the time and space to
• 29:01
  evaluate all of these options and come
• 29:03
  up with better decisions that will drive
• 29:05
  those outcomes.
• 29:06
  >> And we do that through automation. So
• 29:09
  our software automates the early phase
• 29:12
  engineering and design of these assets.
• 29:15
  So that way people's minds can be freed
• 29:17
  up to do more valuable work and not the
• 29:21
  routine monotonous stuff.
• 29:24
  >> Yeah, that that's awesome. One of my
• 29:26
  favorite um authors uh phrases uses a
• 29:31
  phrase called include and transcend,
• 29:33
  which you know is a nod not to in the
• 29:36
  name, but I I kind of like that idea
• 29:38
  here where like how do you include as
• 29:40
  much as you can on the front end so you
• 29:43
  can transcend? Um, and so I'm just
• 29:45
  connecting the dots in my own brain
• 29:47
  right now. Um, on how on how great of a
• 29:50
  name that is for a company that is doing
• 29:53
  exactly that. Um, and so um, yeah. Well,
• 29:57
  Adam, I I'm so thankful that you agreed
• 30:01
  to um to uh be on on my podcast and um
• 30:05
  and get to um be someone, you know,
• 30:08
  you're someone who makes water work for
• 30:11
  a lot of folks who have a vested
• 30:13
  interest in ensuring that it works for
• 30:15
  their communities as well. And so, um
• 30:18
  definitely thank you for your your
• 30:20
  friendship and your mentorship along the
• 30:22
  way. And, um yeah, um where can people
• 30:25
  find you? Um, we kind of hit on that at
• 30:27
  the beginning, but um, go ahead and make
• 30:29
  a plug for um, for where else people can
• 30:32
  find you and interact with you.
• 30:34
  >> Yeah, LinkedIn is the primary one. So,
• 30:35
  just AdamTank on LinkedIn. You can also
• 30:37
  go to adamtank.com.
• 30:39
  And then, of course, transcend is
• 30:40
  transcendinfra, like transcend
• 30:42
  infrastructure, but transcendinfra.com.
• 30:45
  And thanks for having me, Isaac. I
• 30:46
  really appreciate it.
• 30:48
  >> Yeah. Yeah, you bet. Well, and thank you
• 30:50
  all for tuning in. I really um do very
• 30:53
  sincerely love that I get to have these
• 30:55
  conversations and that I get to share
• 30:57
  them um with all of you. Um we have so
• 31:00
  many great um great people in the
• 31:02
  industry and it's good to have a
• 31:04
  platform to be able to um to highlight
• 31:06
  their stories. And so if you've enjoyed
• 31:08
  this episode, please like, share,
• 31:11
  comment, reach out. I'm getting a number
• 31:13
  of folks reaching out about um saying,
• 31:15
  "Hey, have you heard of this person?
• 31:17
  They're do something really cool. Would
• 31:18
  they be a great guest?" and I really
• 31:20
  enjoy getting those um those notes. So,
• 31:22
  feel free to send me one and um we'll
• 31:25
  see you next time. Thanks for listening
• 31:27
  to the Make Water Work podcast. If you
• 31:29
  enjoyed today's episode, please take a
• 31:32
  moment to like, share, and subscribe so
• 31:34
  you never miss a conversation. We'd love
• 31:37
  to hear your thoughts and questions.
• 31:39
  Connect with us on LinkedIn or send us a
• 31:41
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• 31:43
  work for everyone.