Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Iran Freedom & Human Rights: Zolal Habibi on Activism, Women’s Rights, and Global Change (Part One)

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Iran Freedom & Human Rights: Zolal Habibi on Activism, Women’s Rights, and Global Change (Part One) · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

0:00
Hello Melissa Crook here from The Field Podcast.
0:03
We have a very important two-part episode to share with
0:08
you this week. Part 1 will drop today on
0:11
Tuesday, March 24th and Part 2 on Thursday, March 26th.
0:18
We are having a very special guest that I was so grateful to
0:22
be matched with on Pod Match. Her name is Zolal Habibi.
0:26
She is an Iranian human rights activist and a prominent voice
0:31
for justice, democracy and women's rights in Iran.
0:34
She serves on the Foreign Affairs Committee of the
0:37
National Council of Resistance of Iran that you're going to
0:41
hear referred to as the NCRI throughout these two episodes
0:45
where she advocates globally for a free, secular and Democratic
0:52
Republic in Iran. With over 2 decades of dedicated
0:56
activism, she has become a fierce advocate on behalf of the
1:00
voiceless inside Iran, regularly appearing in international
1:05
forums, human rights conferences, and live broadcasts
1:09
across major media platforms. Her activism began in her teens.
1:16
It was profoundly shaped by the loss of her father and the
1:19
continued activism of her mother.
1:22
She is going to give you insights into Iran's history
1:26
that will be very valuable for all of us to know.
1:30
She's going to give you insights on women's empowerment and how
1:36
they have been squarely in the middle of this movement for the
1:41
freedom of Iranian people and. She's going to share with you
1:46
what it. Is that Iran actually needs from
1:50
the rest of the world in order to create a free, safe Iran for
1:56
the people? Not what you're hearing on the
1:59
news, not where you're hearing from leadership around the
2:03
world, but from the people. This is important, it's
2:06
powerful. I'm so grateful to feature her.
2:10
Here's Part 1 where you get to learn her story and how she
2:14
became involved and why it's important.
2:16
So many truths to share. And then then we'll pick up with
2:19
Part 2 on Thursday. Thank you so much for being with
2:22
us. Share this conversation with
2:25
everyone in your Silk role. This isn't just for women.
2:28
It's for anyone that will listen and so we can actually know how
2:32
to truly show up and support this movement for a healthier
2:37
Iran, not only for the Iranians, but for the world.
2:40
Thank you so much for being with us.
2:44
Fast forward 1999, I had just graduated from high school and I
2:49
was on my way to go to college to study medicine.
2:54
But then the student uprisings work out in Iran.
2:57
And when the students uprisings broke out, it was the first time
3:02
I was being televised something like this.
3:04
And it was the first time since the 1980s that we're seeing a
3:08
major uprising in Iran. And the scenes were very brutal.
3:12
I mean, the regime agents were throwing off students, off
3:16
buildings and whatnot to try to stop the uprising and stuff,
3:21
stop the protest. I remember seeing those scenes.
3:24
And as I said, it was the first time I was being televised.
3:27
It was the start of the cable TV and CNN and whatnot.
3:31
Yeah. And I remember watching those
3:33
scenes and, like, thinking to myself, what are you?
3:37
Why are you here? Are you going to just be a
3:40
bystander and just one day hop on a plane and go to Rome once
3:45
it's freed? Or are you going to be one of
3:47
those who plays a role in the process of overthrowing this
3:52
regime and freeing the people of Iran?
3:55
And at that time, a year before that, when I was like 17, I had
4:01
read an article that said there were at that time, there were
4:04
about 20,000 Iranian doctors in the US.
4:08
Right now the number is much, much higher.
4:10
And so like, that's that came back to me and I was like, are
4:14
you going to be one of those 20,000 or are you going to be
4:17
one of those who are freezing around so these 20,000 can go
4:20
and serve their own people. And at that moment, you know, I
4:23
made that decision to join the resistance.
4:26
And I've been a member of the resistance for 26 years, almost
4:31
27 years. And, you know, it was the
4:37
greatest decision I think that I've made.
4:39
And but something that I stand by.
4:43
And it wasn't an easy choice because I understood, you know,
4:47
I wasn't naive. I understood what that meant.
4:51
The sacrifice that was a part of it.
4:54
You know, are you going to dedicate your life to A cause?
4:58
Because it's easier to die for A cause than to live for it, than
5:01
to dedicate your life day in, day out to it.
5:06
Your podcast, I'm your host, Melissa Crook Pod matches, done
5:10
it again. They have matched me with an
5:14
incredible guest today, a timely guest.
5:18
We actually met about a month ago and I'm recording this in
5:22
March of 2026. And in the time since we met, a
5:28
lot has happened in the world, including the US with Israel as
5:35
a partner starting to bomb Iran. I met Zolal Habibi before this
5:44
all started. We had a hint something might be
5:46
coming because of the uprisings that were happening in Iran and
5:50
the many innocent people that have once have been once again
5:54
been killed in Iran. But we didn't know what it was
5:57
going to be. We now have a sense we're
5:59
writing, we're on day 12 of what it is.
6:02
So the time for this conversation with her and, and
6:06
what she's going to be able to share with us today.
6:09
We're going to be able to learn from her and getting the word
6:13
out about her work, her organization's work, the she's
6:18
on the Foreign Affairs Committee of the National Council of
6:21
Resistance of Iran and CRI is how you'll hear us refer to it
6:26
moving forward. She has been an Iranian activist
6:30
advocating for women's rights and equality.
6:33
She was a teenager. She had incredible examples in
6:37
her parents and some tragic losses within that.
6:41
This is she grew up watching this happen.
6:44
She's an Iranian American. But it's been on the front lines
6:49
with other women. And you're going to learn today
6:52
the role women have played in getting the word out of, of
6:58
advocating and wanting to free the Iranian people in a way that
7:01
I don't think most people understand, especially in the
7:04
West. She's going to, she's going to
7:06
share her story today and we're going to walk through the
7:08
talking points. So all describes herself as
7:11
passionate, outspoken, justice oriented, compassionate and
7:16
hopeful. And we're going to talk about
7:19
that hopeful piece because and hope is such an important driver
7:24
in allowing us to continue to have the energy to do the
7:29
important work we're called to. And I can't imagine anything
7:32
that's more important. There's a lot of things that are
7:36
as important, but I can't imagine anything that's more
7:38
important than the work that Zola is involved in today.
7:42
Zola Khabibi, welcome to the Field podcast.
7:47
Thank you very much, Melissa. It's a pleasure to be with you
7:49
and thank you for this opportunity.
7:51
And I'd like to greet everyone who is tuning into the podcast
7:56
today. And yeah, my pleasure to be
8:01
with. You and it's a pleasure to have
8:03
you. It's important for the people
8:04
out there to know that you're safe and in doing and doing well
8:08
as well as can be time that we're in.
8:13
I'm going to start at the beginning and this question is
8:16
going to probably sound kind of funny to some people, but I'm
8:20
going to ask you about your yourself care how you take care
8:24
of yourself. I think what you do is so
8:26
courageous, but what continues to fill your cup to give you
8:31
hope to continue this important work?
8:37
I think that there are probably a few elements that come into
8:41
play. I think it's first of all, it's
8:44
my outlook on the world and like, what is at the end of the
8:52
day, why are we here and what is our responsibility and like,
8:59
what role do we play? So when you see yourself as part
9:03
of like the bigger picture, it's always easier to put into
9:07
perspective like the issues that you're dealing with or the
9:10
difficulties, because there's there's so much still to be
9:14
grateful for and, you know, to understand that these are all
9:19
opportunities that you have. I mean, there's two ways of
9:24
looking at, you know, the circumstances that, you know, I
9:26
grew up with or in or understanding the situation of
9:30
Iran. It's one thing to say I wish we
9:32
had been, you know, born and raised in a time that, you know,
9:37
our country was in, you know, peace and freedom and whatnot.
9:40
It's another to actually be grateful that you have this
9:44
opportunity to be part of a generation that could create,
9:49
make that, make that impact in history and change the path of
9:53
history for a nation and for them to be able to see, you
9:56
know, people's sovereignty and democracy and freedom and see
10:01
that flourish. So it's you're looking at one
10:06
situation where you could look at it from different angles.
10:08
So I think that has always been helpful to me being surrounded
10:14
by those who really inspire me on day-to-day basis and to try
10:18
to follow in their footsteps and to try to learn from them.
10:23
That has always been very helpful because I've seen, you
10:28
know, how they're able to react to very difficult circumstances
10:34
and always, you know, go beyond what is expected of them and
10:41
what, you know, how that reciprocates with the people
10:44
surrounding them. So seeing that always does put
10:47
things into perspective. But also, I think that, you
10:53
know, I grew up with a motto from childhood.
10:57
It's what Miss Fragetti says. She says we can and we must.
11:00
So there isn't any obstacle too big or you know, too small,
11:05
everything, if we make that decision and if we're willing to
11:10
pay the price for it, we can accomplish it.
11:12
And so not giving in and also understanding that there is
11:20
nothing that can, you know, stop you from from the path that
11:25
you're determined follow. So that really gives strength in
11:31
difficult circumstances and to always see yourself as an active
11:36
player in whatever the scene is. You're not, you know, you're not
11:42
just a bystander or just having your fate is not in the hands of
11:47
others. You decide what you're going to
11:49
do in these circumstances. So instead of watching and be
11:52
like, what's going next right now with the war happening,
11:56
what's going to happen? What is the US going to do?
11:58
What is the Union regime going to do?
11:59
What is Israel's going to do? No, what are we going to do?
12:03
And how are we going to make sure that we can move forward in
12:08
the right direction and to be able to, you know, really echo
12:12
the force of the people around? So you take a proactive role.
12:17
And you, I think in this process, you also start to value
12:25
the worth of yourself and everyone around you and to be
12:28
able to see the full potential in people and try to, you know,
12:32
extract that potential from them and to be able to use it in the
12:35
positive direction. So I think those all really
12:38
help. And, you know, just keeping your
12:42
eye on, on the on the goal, I guess, and, you know, just being
12:46
concentrated on that and that positive or that, you know, that
12:53
ideal goal that you do have in your mind and just keep your,
12:56
you know, pacing yourself with that.
12:59
And just, you know, figuring, figuring out the different Rd.
13:03
maps to be able to reach that final destiny or that final
13:08
point that you want to. Yeah, yeah.
13:11
Thank you so much for sharing that.
13:13
I talk a lot about healthy boundaries on here, and healthy
13:17
boundaries are like knowing what to say yes and no to knowing
13:20
what is you have the capacity for and what you don't have the
13:24
capacity for. You said something so important
13:26
that keeping your eye on the point, not trying to control
13:30
things you can't control. You have no control over what
13:34
the US does, over what Israel does, over what any other and
13:38
your government does. But you can control how you move
13:43
forward, how your group moves forward.
13:45
So talk to me what what helps your group.
13:48
You have a very strong woman leader in this group.
13:52
Talk to me about what helps you decide what you say yes and no
13:55
to. You also decided at a very young
13:59
age as a teenager that you wanted to be part of this
14:02
resistance and you after and we'll have you Share your story
14:08
because you knew when you were a very small child that this is
14:12
something you were passionate about.
14:14
You felt called to. So but talk to me in this
14:17
current time, how do you know what to say yes and no to?
14:20
Where's that line in the sand that you that you know you can't
14:24
cross? Well, I think that one of the
14:27
beauties of this movement is we are a movement that has always
14:32
moved forward based on our principles and values.
14:35
That has been like the guiding force here.
14:40
It might not be popular one day or another and that that's fine.
14:44
We don't care, but we stick to our principles and our, you
14:48
know, those values that we have. And in fact, we've been able to,
14:53
you know, when speaking about politics, everyone knows,
14:57
unfortunately, this is like the saying that is well known
15:01
everywhere in the world. And I think in different
15:03
languages they have different sayings for it.
15:04
But you know, politics is dirty or, you know, politics in Farsi,
15:10
they have a saying they say politics doesn't is a bastard.
15:13
It doesn't have, you know, parents or something like that.
15:16
I mean, and like that is the reality of policies,
15:22
unfortunately. But what we have been able to do
15:26
is we have turned our values and principles into policy and we
15:32
have been able to push that forward.
15:34
And that is why one of the things that's very interesting
15:37
when you look at the Iranian resistance or if you take it
15:40
like a deep dive into it, you see people from far left to far
15:44
right actually supporting this movement.
15:47
Why? Because we actually stick to our
15:49
principles and they all know that we don't necessarily align
15:53
with their policies or their, you know, viewpoints, but we are
15:59
because we stand by those very, you know, firm on our policy, on
16:06
our values. I think more than anything,
16:09
those human values are what draws people.
16:12
And that is also what can build a strong, you know, fundament
16:17
for for this movement because we have withstood like storms,
16:22
unbelievable. I mean, we have been been the
16:26
target over 12 governments at the same time place at times or,
16:33
you know, just different things that have come our way because
16:36
we have also been the main gardening chip used at the
16:39
negotiation table with Iranian regime in the last four decades.
16:43
So, but what has helped us withstand the test of time and
16:49
also through all the difficulties and obstacles has
16:52
been standing by our values and principles.
16:55
Like, for instance, even because for us the issue has never been,
17:01
you know, reaching power or, you know, gaining something like
17:06
personal gain in this path. It has always been the freedom
17:11
of the people rerun. So that's like for sole purpose.
17:15
And so with that, we're a, we've been able to stand like for
17:20
instance, on our two feet, our own 2 feet.
17:23
Independence has been very key for us.
17:26
There are a lot of times that people are like, well, why don't
17:28
you do this? And so this government supports
17:30
you or that government. So like, no, we don't align with
17:33
governments. They can align with us if they
17:35
want to, but we're not going to do that because we we have to
17:38
keep in mind the what is best for the people of your own and
17:43
what is in their interest. And that really gives you
17:46
strength and power to maneuver because, you know, you're
17:50
standing, you're putting your feet somewhere, you know.
17:52
Yeah, That firm foundation, right?
17:55
Yeah. And I think that that's really
17:58
important. And also like for instance, we
18:01
have, I mean, have come up to very, very difficult
18:05
circumstances. I mean, one of the ones that
18:07
sticks out in my mind is the 1988 massacre.
18:12
And at that time, Khomeini had 30,000 political prisoners
18:17
executed in the summer of 1988. Within 5-6 weeks, they were all
18:23
asked only like 3 questions and then they would be sent to the
18:28
gallows. A lot of them, some of them had
18:31
finished their prison sentences or their terms.
18:35
Some weren't even had never been to a trial or anything.
18:40
So it's just these three questions that were asked.
18:43
And they knew that, I mean, beforehand, they told them, you
18:47
know, this, your, your life depends on your answer to this
18:50
question. They could have easily filmed,
18:54
they could have easily said, because the question was, do you
18:57
still stand by supporting the MEK?
19:03
That was a very simple question. They kind of said like no, not
19:07
really or anything and escaped. But they didn't.
19:12
They stood by the principle. They're like, yes, I do still
19:14
stand by my views. And I still stand firm in the in
19:19
my belief that this region used to be the overthrown or like in
19:22
my opposition to you. And they went to the gallows
19:24
with their heads up high. I mean, a movement that has, you
19:29
know, paid that kind of a price 120,000 people have given up
19:35
their lives for, for the cause of freedom in Iran.
19:38
That is that also brings responsibility for those who
19:42
remain that would have to stick by our principles because this
19:46
is those values, those principles are what 100, 1000
19:50
people dedicated their lives to and sacrificed their lives for.
19:53
So I think that that that has always been like a guiding force
19:59
and helps in very difficult situations to move forward and
20:03
to just be rest at ease that, you know, at the end of the day,
20:06
you've done what you could. And I think that's really
20:11
important. And also, I mean, history is
20:14
going to judge at the end of the day.
20:16
I mean, if you could still stand, I mean.
20:20
We don't know what will happen in the, you know, in the near
20:23
future, but we can always say that, you know, history will
20:26
attest to those who stand on the right side of history.
20:32
But now we're seeing that like a lot among the Iranian diaspora
20:35
or people even inside of Iran. Like there is this line being
20:39
drawn right now between Iranians 1 is they call it, you know,
20:48
they say like there are two sides to this.
20:50
It's the people and the the anti people, you know, So what falls
20:57
into the people's, you know, front and one what falls into
21:02
like the dictatorship front that is like where they're drawing
21:06
the line. And then the slogans like and
21:08
the chance in the streets that we run is one of them.
21:11
One of the chances is down with the oppressor be at the shot or
21:14
the motherless because anything that it's believes in tyranny,
21:18
believes in a one man rule, believes in, you know, having
21:26
having that kind of control over society and trying to dictate
21:29
that that is something that we don't stand for.
21:31
So we are seeing now a united front, even with, you know,
21:36
people who have come from all walks of life, they have
21:39
different views. They might not agree on a lot of
21:42
things together, and that's fine because that's how society is.
21:45
Each one of us are different and we come from a different
21:47
background and different understanding and different
21:50
perspectives, but this is the one thing that they agree on.
21:54
So right now we're seeing like a movement come together calling
21:58
for like a secular Democratic Republic.
22:01
So these are the three keywords. Like the positive messaging
22:04
would be secular Democratic Republic, but it is anti any
22:09
form of theocracy or any form of dictatorship.
22:12
So I think these are things that help us.
22:14
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I think, you know, when
22:17
you are firm on your values and you know what you believe in and
22:22
you don't leave her from that, that answers a lot of other
22:25
questions like you. So we're going to come back to
22:28
that values piece because I want you to give big history on that.
22:31
But before we do that, we're going to go to the next
22:33
question. But I always ask women is our
22:37
mental, emotional, physical, spiritual health.
22:40
They're all connected. You have seen a lot in your
22:44
life. I want you to be as as we live
22:49
in this kind of talking point area.
22:51
Talk to me about the beginning and going back to a child and
22:55
what you saw your parents doing and at the time and the, and,
22:59
and what informed you to make this decision and the impact
23:03
that's had on you from a from a health standpoint, from a
23:07
Wellness standpoint. So yeah, it just started the
23:11
beginning to Share your story and your family story.
23:15
Well, my parents were students during the time of the
23:21
revolution and and they were in the US, so I've never actually
23:27
had the chance to be in Iran or go to Iran.
23:31
So my parents came to the US before the revolution and a
23:34
students and but I became aware of the situation in Iran from
23:40
very early on because both of my parents were activists.
23:44
My father was a prominent writer and a human right activist and
23:47
very well respected in the community back then.
23:50
And, you know, to this day, I get approached by people who are
23:56
like, you know, that article of your dad like changed my
23:59
understanding of the world or, you know, my had that much of an
24:03
impact in my life. And sometimes I do think of it
24:07
that, you know, that was that impact was denied to us.
24:12
We didn't have that opportunity like growing up to grow up with
24:15
that. But I think that my parents were
24:18
great role models for me and my brother.
24:22
The reality is that unfortunately, I mean, yeah, I
24:24
came face to face with the human rights violations in Iraq from
24:29
very early on. But like, vivid memory that I
24:32
have is meeting victims of torture when I was about four or
24:36
five years old. And they were actually staying
24:39
at our house for about two weeks.
24:40
And so I had the chance to, you know, experience them day-to-day
24:48
during those two weeks. And they were like my heroes to
24:51
me because even though they tried to hide from me because I
24:55
was a child and they're like, she needs to be shielded from
24:57
this. She's not supposed to be hearing
24:59
about this. But like, there was one of them
25:02
that I had actually seen images of how severely his feet had
25:08
been tortured from in demonstrations and things like
25:11
before meeting her in person, I had seen those.
25:13
And I was like, sure, that guy, you're the guy from those
25:16
pictures. So I know you've been torturing.
25:18
You need to tell me about prison.
25:19
And he's like, no, I was like, you're gonna have to tell me
25:22
about it. And so after like 2 weeks of
25:25
just, you know, Davey, I think probably he finally told me a
25:32
bit about his story. Of course, a rated G version,
25:35
which would be appropriate for a four year old child.
25:38
But it always, you know, stayed with me.
25:42
And I remember, like, making that connection because he had a
25:46
daughter who was a year older than I was, and she was still in
25:49
Iran, and he had been able to escape.
25:53
And so those stories really formed my understanding of, you
25:58
know, what was going on and, you know, how things are in the
26:01
world and not. And to realize from very early
26:04
on that not everyone has the privilege to live in a safe
26:08
environment the way that you do. And I think that was important.
26:13
And, but I always thought that was, you know, in Iran and we're
26:17
here and we're fine. But when I was 7, the Iranian
26:21
regime actually had my father killed.
26:24
And that summer, as I mentioned before, 30,000 political
26:28
prisoners were executed too. And that really changed
26:33
everything for me. We came to crossroads at that
26:37
time. And I remember my mom, you can
26:40
imagine she was only like 2526 years old with two small
26:45
children, seven and three. And she made the decision.
26:50
She could have easily said, well, you know, our family has
26:52
done it's part and now I need to concentrate on my kids.
26:56
But she decided to join the resistance.
26:58
And so my mom joined the resistance and at that time the
27:04
resistance was based in Iraq. So we went to Iraq from
27:07
Washington to back. That is two different.
27:10
Worlds suddenly I went to some they had they found your dad so
27:18
this you know I want the. Audience my my dad actually had
27:22
was working on a project in the border area of Iran and Iraq and
27:26
so that's where he was so he wasn't in the US, but
27:30
unfortunately there were like colleagues of my father who were
27:33
assassinated in Rome and Switzerland just like one or two
27:39
years later. So the actually some of the main
27:43
like people who actually worked with him.
27:45
So that is unfortunately something that the Iranian
27:48
regime has also done. But in my, the instance of my
27:51
father, who he wasn't assassinated in the US or
27:54
anything, it was in, in the border we run in Iraq.
27:58
So we went there and then with the, when the first gold war
28:03
started, it wasn't safe for kids anymore there.
28:06
And so my mom sent me and my brother back to the US and we
28:08
were raised by my aunt, but she decided to continue her, you
28:13
know, her fights and be a member of the resistance.
28:16
And I think that for anyone who's a mother, they can
28:19
understand how difficult that is, especially for a mother who
28:24
like she understands that these these kids have just lost their
28:28
father like 2 years before. And now I'm being separated from
28:31
their mother. And, you know, that's a very
28:33
difficult decision to make. And I always have greatest
28:38
respect for my mom for having made that sacrifice, you know,
28:42
in her life. And but I think that my parents,
28:45
at the end of the day, they taught us what was important
28:49
like, through their actions instead of just mere words.
28:52
And I think that is what's incredible.
28:55
And I always, you know, I wherever I went, I always knew
28:59
that, you know, I could hold my head up high and be like, yeah,
29:02
those are my parents. And as Fast forward, I mean, we
29:08
grew up in DC area with my aunt and you know, in Iranian
29:13
culture, it's very important, you know, education and whatnot.
29:16
So it was always taught was, you know, you guys need to
29:20
concentrate on your studies. You need to become something to
29:23
rebuild Iran when it's free. And that was like AI guess that
29:30
was the division that we had like it was our parents
29:32
generations work to free Iran and it was our generation's work
29:37
team, you know, build Iran after it's free.
29:40
But well, it didn't turn out. So Fast forward 1999.
29:46
I had just graduated from high school and I was on my way to go
29:50
to college to study medicine. But then the student uprisings
29:55
broke out in Iran. And when the students uprisings
29:59
broke out, it was the first time I was being televised something
30:03
like this. And it was the first time since
30:05
the 1980s that we're seeing a major uprising in Iran.
30:10
And the scenes were very brutal. I mean, the regime agents were
30:13
throwing off students, off buildings and whatnot to try to
30:18
stop the uprising and stuff, stop the protest.
30:22
I remember seeing those scenes. And as I said, it was the first
30:25
time I was being televised. It was the start of the cable TV
30:28
and CNN and whatnot. Yeah.
30:30
And I remember watching those scenes and, like, thinking to
30:34
myself, what are you? Why are you here?
30:39
Are you going to just be a bystander and just one day hop
30:43
on a plane and go to Rome once it's freed?
30:45
Or are you going to be one of those who plays a role in the
30:49
process of overthrowing this regime and freeing the people of
30:53
Iran? And at that time, a year before
30:57
that, when I was like 17, I had read an article that said there
31:03
were at that time, there were about 20,000 Iranian doctors in
31:07
the US. Right now the number is much,
31:09
much higher. And so like, that's that came
31:12
back to me and I was like, are you going to be one of those
31:15
20,000 or are you going to be one of those who are freezing,
31:18
Ron? So these 20,000 can go and serve
31:19
their own people. And at that moment, you know, I
31:23
made that decision to join the resistance.
31:25
And I've been a member of the resistance for 26 years, almost
31:30
27 years. And, you know, it was the
31:37
greatest decision I think that I've made.
31:38
And but something that I stand by.
31:42
And it wasn't an easy choice because I understood, you know,
31:47
I wasn't naive. I understood what that meant,
31:50
the sacrifice that was a part of it.
31:54
And, you know, are you going to dedicate your life to A cause?
31:57
Because it's easier to die for A cause than to live for it, than
32:01
to dedicate your life day in, day out to it.
32:05
But I made that decision. And and, you know, I followed
32:11
many others who had already stepped in this path.
32:15
And I've been a member of the resistance ever since.
32:18
Yeah, that's the story. Wow.
32:21
So there's so many things that strike me, which I think you're
32:25
so exceptional. But let's go back to that, the
32:28
time when your mom told you, OK kiddos, you're going to go back
32:32
and live with your aunt. I'm going to.
32:35
I'm going to. Stay here and fight.
32:37
As a kid, that's taught. You mentioned it, you just had.
32:41
It hadn't been long since you tragically lost your father.
32:44
He was assassinated and now. You're watching your mother.
32:48
Go into this fight, you've seen first hand what this fight can
32:51
cause you, but talk to me about just the emotions of being a kid
32:56
and talk a lot about now being proud and knowing.
32:59
Was that the feeling then too? I mean, at the time, I think
33:04
that everyone thought it was going to be, you know, just no
33:09
one thought it was going to be permanent.
33:11
Everyone thought just for a few months, you know, my mom was
33:14
like for, you know, three to six months, you guys are going to
33:18
go. I had a feeling that would be
33:20
longer, like I was like, mom, it's not a vacation.
33:24
I mean, it's not, I'm going, I'm not going on, you know, vacation
33:28
to go and visit them. And that was clear to me.
33:30
But like, for instance, a lot of the other kids, they actually
33:34
really thought it would be like for 3-3 weeks or three months or
33:38
something like that. But at that time, I mean, I
33:42
understood that it was a difficult decision for my mom.
33:46
Even though I was only 9, I could, I could feel that and I
33:50
could understand that and I knew that she needed me to puff it up
33:55
and, you know, be there for my brother.
33:59
And from that moment, I actually felt like I became a parent at
34:06
that moment, because even before then, I, I knew I always had to
34:10
like, try to fill the void for my dad, but passed away, had
34:15
been killed for my brother. But since that moment, that
34:19
responsibility came on my shoulder.
34:21
I mean, yes, my aunt was our guardian, but that
34:24
responsibility always, you know, stayed with me.
34:27
And, and there were, I mean, difficult times.
34:31
I mean, I remember for, for a very long time, like my brother,
34:37
he wouldn't be able to sleep without holding my, my, my
34:40
hands. The reason was he was afraid of
34:43
losing me too, because he had lost our dad.
34:46
And then we had never told him that my, my dad had died.
34:50
We had told him my dad had gotten to heaven.
34:52
And the word heaven in Farsi is beheaded.
34:56
And my dad used to travel a lot because of, you know, as a
35:00
writer. And he would go and give
35:01
speeches here and there. So my brother automatically
35:05
thought beheaded is a city next to Belgium or Brussels or
35:09
because he had heard these cities before.
35:11
So he was like, oh, OK, that's where he is.
35:13
And so it over time, he started realizing, you know, what having
35:19
means and where he is and whatnot.
35:21
So during those, I mean, he just felt like, you know, in points
35:27
in his life, just people who are close to him are just take it
35:30
away. So that really did make an
35:33
impact on him. I, I don't know, I guess I just
35:40
coped with it, but I knew that I had to be strong.
35:43
I remember that. I remember like the minute that
35:45
I was saying goodbye to my mom, I was all choked up and
35:49
everything. And my mom was like, if you cry,
35:52
he's going to know something's wrong, so please don't.
35:56
And The thing is that before that, then when I was 7, when my
36:02
dad died, when I found out, I didn't find out immediately.
36:06
I found out like a month or two after.
36:10
And when I found out, I cried for like 3 hours straight.
36:14
And then at that moment the school bus arrived from that,
36:20
the kindergarten that my brother went to.
36:22
And so my mom was like stolen please, you're going to have to
36:25
stop crying because he's going to know something's wrong.
36:27
And so I remember like trying to, you know, you know, control
36:34
my own feelings there. And so I just like ran away and
36:37
came back and I was thinking to myself, I was like, you know,
36:40
get a grip. You know, you can't be like
36:42
this. And I was like in the mindsets
36:44
of a 7 year old. I was like, you know what?
36:47
At the end of the day, your dad's not going to be alive
36:52
again by you crying. And it's only going to make
36:56
Khomeini happy because that's what he does.
36:59
He wants to make everyone sad. And that's when he, you know,
37:03
gives him joy to see everyone sad.
37:04
So, you know, as a form of resistance, like in the mindset
37:09
of a 7 year old, I was like, I'm not going to cry from this
37:11
moment on. I'm not going to give Khomeini
37:14
that, you know, gratitude or that gratitude.
37:20
And you know, I'm not going to cry anymore.
37:22
So actually from that moment on, I didn't cry until I was like 16
37:28
for like over like for a decade, I didn't cry.
37:31
And and that moment like when we're leaving, I also knew that,
37:34
look, you have to hold it together, you know, and just,
37:40
you know, be strong and let, let first of all, give my mom that
37:44
assurance that we'll be fine, but also to be there for my
37:47
brother and be that that rock that he needs in this in these
37:51
circumstances. So, yeah, I think that I think
37:56
our generation like, because we were like about 800 kids with
37:59
the same story. Yeah, I think we just as a
38:05
generation, we actually grew up to be, you know, we had to grow
38:09
up really fast and to, you know, take on, understand that and
38:14
take on that responsibility and to be able to, you know, cope
38:19
with it and understand it and, you know, come to terms with it.
38:22
Yeah. You didn't have the privilege of
38:24
staying a kid that was protected from the realities of the world.
38:31
But I think that informs so much of what you did.
38:34
I mean, the the way you're able to take a scenario and look at
38:37
like, all right, yeah. This, I'm going to look at this
38:40
as an act of resistance. It's not because I'm not sad.
38:44
It's not because I won't miss these people.
38:46
But this is going to be, you know, the an act of resistance
38:50
for me. I hope that cry you had when you
38:52
were 16 was a good strong cry all.
38:57
Of those. Emotions that you had been
38:59
carrying. How do you deal with it now when
39:04
these emotions come up? What, what?
39:06
What is? How do you cope with that now?
39:12
As I said, like, for instance, for me seeing the scenes, you
39:16
know, yeah, the uprising in the massacre that the region carried
39:20
out, it's very painful. Or like, even seeing the scenes
39:23
right now these days from the war, I mean, you know, the
39:26
devastation and like the, the child who keeps on crying, like,
39:30
the only thing I want to see is my mom.
39:32
I, I he doesn't care about anything else.
39:34
He's like 4. And, you know, those scenes are
39:37
very painful. But I always think of it this
39:40
way. Like, that just adds to your
39:42
responsibility. What are you going to do to make
39:44
this suffering one day less? Yeah.
39:47
But it turns into like an engine, you know, a force for
39:51
change and to push you forward and take on one responsibility.
39:55
So it is difficult. A lot of times you just feel
39:58
like it's a world even seeing this.
40:01
Are they understanding this or like, why is the world doing?
40:05
I mean, why do governments do the things that they do?
40:08
Why do you know, people do the things that they do?
40:10
But what puts it in perspective is.
40:14
What are you going to do about it and how are you going to be
40:18
the change that you want to see? Yeah, yeah.
40:21
And so I think that's that's really helpful.
40:25
And to always be able to look at.
40:29
I think it really helps the when you have good role models in
40:34
front of you. I mean, you know, I just look at
40:38
Miss Bajavi and I think, well, you know, how does she do it?
40:41
And she, everyone is looking at her right now at this moment,
40:46
like what's going to happen, you know, and she has to put that
40:50
strong face and to be able to push everyone forward and give
40:54
them direction and tell them like, this is the way forward.
40:56
This is what we need to do. And we had actually a women's
40:59
conference about two weeks ago and it was very interesting to
41:04
me. And then one of the workshops,
41:06
one of the, one of the permanent personalities who was in
41:10
attendance, I think she was from Italy, she mentioned, you know,
41:14
I think of Mr. Banjabi. And I realized that since she
41:18
was 19, she has been part of this resistance.
41:23
And she's been, she has dedicated 5 decades of her life
41:27
day in, day out to the cost for freedom and 40 years of it.
41:31
She's been leading the movements.
41:33
So 40 years having that, you know, on your shoulder and
41:36
knowing that people look at you and they expect it from you to,
41:41
you know, why haven't you overthrown the regime yet or why
41:44
haven't you done this or that yet?
41:46
And to need that, that responsibility that it brings
41:52
when you know that you are people's source of hope and
41:56
inspiration, you know that. And then to be able to carry
42:00
yourself with such grace and continue and be humble at the
42:03
same time. And you know, just having that
42:07
and having experienced that face to face, you know, and having
42:10
her in that, you know, at arms length and to be able to see
42:13
that and to be able to follow, you know, follow in her
42:16
footsteps, That has been, I think a great privilege for me
42:20
and something that I value very, very much.
42:23
Yeah, yeah. Talk to me about this.
42:27
Next talking point is women showing up for themselves and
42:30
themselves and others unapologetically.
42:32
This is really to me what what NCRI is.
42:38
It is a group of women. Talk to me about this.
42:40
I don't think people understand this around the world.
42:43
They very much view women in any Middle Eastern country.
42:49
We are very guilty in the Western, you know, part of the
42:53
world of just kind of clumping it all in together.
42:56
So to realize there's this active group.
42:58
Of women that are that are a. Force for change that have these
43:03
steadfast values, and we're going to get into the the
43:05
specifics of the values here in a moment.
43:08
But talk to me about the history of this organization, how it was
43:11
formed and how long it's been in play, and what you do on a
43:16
regular basis to help people understand anything you want our
43:20
listeners to know about NCRI. There's a lot to say about the
43:28
NCRI, but also from the women's perspective that he said, And I
43:34
won't be speaking just about the NCRI, but the resistance in
43:37
general because there's a actually the force that is
43:41
leading in this pot is the MEK, which is a member of the NCRI.
43:45
So what? Does what does MEK?
43:47
Stand for It's a People's Mujahideen Organization of Iran
43:52
or Mujahideen Child in Parsi. So in short, it's PMOI or MEK.
44:01
The MEK was formed 60 years ago by three students in Iran
44:08
against the Shah. And it was a very, it's a very
44:11
progressive movement. And it has really been able to
44:16
grow from that, those three students to a global movement
44:21
with 60 years of, you know, continuous fighting.
44:25
All three founders of the organization were executed by
44:29
the Shah during the time of the Shah.
44:31
But this has continued. And in 1981, there was a
44:40
peaceful protest in Tehran. That was that the regime opened
44:44
fire on. And that was a good turning
44:47
point for this movement. And so since then they have
44:51
been, you know, fighting full on against this regime.
44:56
And the National Council Resistance of Iran was formed
44:58
one month later in July 1981. So this movement has been
45:04
fighting for freedom in Iran, the NCRI, for 45 years now.
45:08
And where the role of women comes into play is back in the
45:15
1980's, the, the MEK used to do like annual analysis of the year
45:21
that has passed and what they have been able to accomplish and
45:24
what, you know, what was happening.
45:26
And they started realizing, and I think this is back in, in
45:32
1984, they in their analysis of the year, they realized, look,
45:39
women are playing a major role. They are enduring the most
45:46
severe forms of torture and execution.
45:50
And they, they are putting up like a unprecedented resistance
45:53
and, you know, steadfastness in this regard, despite being faced
45:58
with a misogynist regime that has like be hatred toward women.
46:02
So it's like brutal toward them, but they also have to pass so
46:06
many different obstacles to even join the resistance in society.
46:11
I mean, from no, even if you look like the mindsets or the,
46:16
the gender roles that we have in our minds from society.
46:20
I guess like in such circumstances, for people, it
46:23
might be understandable for their son to join like
46:26
resistance, but for their daughter to join resistance and
46:29
armed resistance, that's like the taboo in in every society
46:33
practically. And so the fact that they were
46:35
doing this and they were, you know, breaking through all these
46:38
obstacles, but they weren't being represented in the the
46:42
leadership command of the movement.
46:45
And so that is something that, you know, raised alarms with,
46:49
especially because it was a progressive movement.
46:50
And they're like, no, no, no, no, we can't have that.
46:53
That means that we still have those mentalities ourselves
46:56
against misogynist views. And so they decided to, now that
47:03
they have realized that they're going to turn around, you know,
47:06
that whole situation and, you know, they realized that this is
47:09
like ideological war before anything in ourselves.
47:12
And until the time that we have some of the same mindsets as
47:16
this region, we're not going to be able to really fully, you
47:20
know, fight against it because they say a knife never cuts it's
47:25
own hands. You know, you can't do that.
47:27
So the movement decided to bring women in leadership.
47:32
And so at that time, they chose the most, you know, qualified
47:40
woman who had, you know, that that I mean, she had proven her
47:48
abilities in every front. So missus gradually was chosen
47:52
to become the Co leader of the movement.
47:55
And so she became Co leader of this movement in 1985.
48:00
And with that started like an inner revolution, you know, to
48:04
be able to break those mindsets that you have in your mind
48:07
against women and misogynist views and whatnot.
48:10
And So what she did was, though she didn't stop there.
48:14
She didn't say like, OK, well, now I've been placed in
48:17
leadership, so I should just, you know, hold my place for him.
48:21
What she did was she took the hands of like women 1 by 1 and
48:26
built like a whole line of, you know, competent female leaders.
48:35
And she in time the the MEK actually since 1993 has been LED
48:43
completely by the All Women Leadership Council.
48:50
So that has and since then, since actually since 1989 till
48:57
now, all the secretary generals of the MEK have been women.
49:03
And this has broken. They have broken so many glass
49:08
ceilings and all the barriers and people that have in their
49:11
minds and they have shown their, you know, they keep their
49:14
capabilities and in off friends, be it from in the political
49:19
realm, be it social realm, be it in military, even everything
49:25
they have shown that they have, you know, that potential and
49:29
that ability and to do it, you know, far even better than
49:34
anyone else could. And so we as a generation, we
49:39
grew up seeing that, you know, it wasn't, it was just right
49:43
there in front of us in our, you know, we never thought that
49:46
there was anything that women couldn't do because we were
49:48
saying that they can every day. So I remember even in I realized
49:53
at one point in school that, you know, I don't have a lot of
49:56
these glass ceilings that other girls do because I've seen, you
50:00
know, women be able to do everything.
50:03
And so there isn't anything that I think that women are not
50:05
capable of doing or they can't do or they're weaker or this or
50:09
that. So we grew up with that self
50:11
esteem that we were getting from them and they always and
50:15
everyone in this movement, but it's very important is it's not
50:19
just the women, it's the fact that the men actually see this
50:24
as emancipating for them. You know, they they see that
50:28
this is breaking up shackles, not only are tying down the
50:32
woman, but also tying down the men.
50:34
And so you will see men who defend by being women in
50:40
hegemony and to, you know, have this, you know, gender roles
50:46
being placed aside. And so that is something that
50:50
has been emancipating. And for us, we grew up with
50:54
seeing those women and also those men who looked at us the
51:00
same way too, since we were kids.
51:02
So that's why, you know, when people were like, yeah, you
51:05
know, men look at women this way or whatever.
51:08
I was like, really, that's not what I see from, you know, I was
51:12
surrounded by. And so growing up as a child.
51:15
And so I, I soon realized that difference and even the way that
51:20
people look at you. And that was really something
51:24
that gave me, you know, great self esteem to be able to stand,
51:28
to stand by my values, to stand for what I stand for, you know,
51:32
and really open the path for us. And so that has been the story
51:37
of this movement. And in the women's conference
51:40
that we actually had one of one of the people who was there.
51:43
She's a professor of women's studies actually.
51:46
And she, it was her 30th year attending and she, she was
51:53
recalling to others, you know, the first time that she came and
51:57
she said, I remember hearing the thesis of Miss Rajavi.
52:01
And I was, and I had, you know, goosebumps all over.
52:06
And I started looking around me and I was like, do people
52:09
realize that this isn't just a thesis, that they've actually
52:12
done this in practice? I mean, it's not, it's, it's an
52:15
ideal world, but she's saying, but she's, she's saying that
52:18
this is not just a thesis. This is our experience.
52:21
So this has already been done. And so she's like, every year I
52:24
look forward to hear what are the new, you know, heights that
52:29
this resistance has reached in regards to women's empowerment.
52:34
And we hope that one day we will be able to share that experience
52:38
with the world because I think the world at large could learn a
52:40
lot from it. Because I remember back in like
52:43
1996 was that Beijing women's conference.
52:49
And at that time Hillary Clinton was first lady and there in her
52:53
speech, she said women's rights are human rights.
52:55
And that was like a major, you know, issue back then.
53:00
And I was like, that's it. Women's rights are human rights.
53:03
Of course women's rights are human rights.
53:05
But at that time the, the slogan of our movement was women are
53:09
the force for change and women's empowerment.
53:11
So I was like, you're talking about women's empowerment at
53:14
like the highest levels in. You know, this progressive
53:22
movement has really is really a trailblazer in this regard and
53:27
is moving forward. And so that was I think that is
53:30
something that inspires many women in Iran too.
53:35
As you see in the protest everywhere, women are on the
53:38
front, front, front lines. I think in 2022, that took the
53:42
world by surprise. But for us it was a given
53:49
because, you know, even if you're not in direct contact
53:52
with the resistance because of the implications that it has for
53:57
society, you are affected by it. So, you know, this is it's a new
54:03
culture that has evolved over the years and has spread even
54:07
inside of Iran, even under tyrannical rule.
54:10
And I think that is something that's really important and that
54:13
we have. Yeah.
54:15
Wow, that's so powerful and just that.
54:18
It just goes to show how impacted we are as humans by
54:26
what we see, what's modeled to us, what we're surrounded with.
54:30
You lived in this kind of little community, almost a bubble of
54:34
this was your reality. And then when you heard in 1990,
54:37
like, wait a minute, not everybody's doing this, which I
54:40
think would surprise is going to surprise so many of our
54:43
listeners not understanding that this resistance has played in
54:51
the movement. I mean, you're using language
54:53
that we didn't haven't started using here in the US and Eastern
54:56
culture until like the last 10 to 15 years when we're talking
54:59
about women's empowerment and those kinds of things.
55:01
You guys have been practicing it for years now.
55:04
I mean, and the, and the, the trailblazing and absolutely
55:08
correct the, the model that that can be for the rest of the world
55:11
of what's possible when we see each other as humans, when we
55:15
see each other, as you know, we're all different and unique,
55:19
but equally, equally important, equally valuable.
55:23
We all bring something to this that matters to, to to the
55:27
world. And thank you so much for
55:29
sharing that. So to really wrap up this, this
55:32
talking point we've been talking about, you got to see most of
55:38
your life what it looks like for men and women to work together,
55:42
for men and women to not put each other in boxes and gender
55:46
roles, to allow each other to flourish and shine and lead and
55:50
support each other in it. And that which has informed your
55:55
confidence level, how you see the world, but also kind of eye
55:59
opening when you realized, oh, wait a minute, not everybody has
56:03
moved here yet. But what a great road map you
56:07
have built. And hopefully the world someday
56:10
we will all be smart enough to take hold of that and and watch
56:14
what you've created and and know that we don't have to recreate
56:18
the wheel. They're already modeling to us
56:21
in the Iranian resistance what this looks like.
56:23
So wow, how powerful. And it really tells me so much.
56:27
OK, that makes so much sense now.
56:30
Why you have the confidence, the courage, the the hope you you've
56:35
seen it unfold in front of you and what an incredible
56:38
generation your parents were. To be able to have the foresight
56:42
and going back to those men that were willing to break out of
56:45
generations and thousands of years of misogyny and patriarchy
56:50
to see that, I think it's so powerful.
56:56
It is, I think that, you know, it's a, it's one of those untold
57:05
ethics and I think that the world will learn about one day.
57:09
But I think that, you know, the fact that, you know, these
57:13
people were able to 1st of all, because they were from a
57:18
progressive movement and they have these progressive ideas.
57:21
The minute that they realized that, you know, there are these
57:25
general roles actually play a role in their minds or like
57:27
these patriarchal, you know, values and whatnot, they still
57:32
have that effect. And because they were conscience
57:37
of this situation and they were, you know, they automatically
57:40
they were looking at within themselves to be able to create
57:43
that change. So that's why I think that
57:46
really helped and because that that gives you, whenever you
57:52
look into yourself to be able to make that change that you want
57:55
to see around you, then you have abundance of energy and things
58:01
that can be done and things that you know, you could do and
58:05
you're not, you know, you become a proactive, you know, and you
58:10
have a proactive role instead of just being, you know, just
58:15
waiting. I think that that culture of
58:18
waiting is what, you know, takes away our abilities and our, our
58:26
strength to move forward. So I think that has been very
58:30
key learning that and understanding that.
58:33
And I, I mean, I still think that maybe I understand it on a
58:37
much smaller level that than what Missus bridal we always
58:40
tells us, because she always tells us like you, you guys are
58:43
getting like 2%. You know, what I see is she
58:47
always believes in she, she sees so much potential in everyone.
58:51
And she's like, you guys aren't using your energies.
58:54
You have so much energy, you have so much to give.
58:57
And you guys are so valuable, you know, each one of you.
59:00
And that, that is something that we usually don't see in
59:03
ourselves, every human being, but that is that potential that
59:07
lies in every single one of us. And the the differences are very
59:12
minor. What is important is like the
59:15
choices that you make and the price that you're willing to pay
59:17
for each choice and how much you're willing to, you know,
59:21
sacrifice for it or pay a price for it to be able to move that
59:25
forward. That resolve comes from there.
59:31
Yeah. Really incredible.
59:33
I mean, and you said something really important and I talk
59:35
about this all the time. It starts with each of us doing
59:39
our inner work and knowing our value.
59:41
And if, if if we were all able to lead from that in the world
59:47
rather than the, the the hurt insecure places that we operate
59:55
from, it would change everything.
59:56
It would change everything. I mean that ability to see each
59:59
other's value, lift each other up without all the messes of of
1:00:05
unresolved. Work on ourselves and not
1:00:09
knowing, I think that you just set such a this organization,
1:00:14
the way you all operate these organizations within the larger
1:00:18
organization. Man, what a powerful, powerful
1:00:21
example. Thank you so much for breaking
1:00:23
that down and sharing that with this.
1:00:25
I think we've all learned. Everybody listening today is
1:00:28
like, I did not know that and wow, what a powerful example to
1:00:33
follow and really informs what keeps you all going and
1:00:37
motivated to continue doing this daily flow.
1:00:41
And thank you so much for being with us today on this episode of
1:00:45
the Feel Podcast. If you would like more
1:00:48
information on how you can apply these talking points that I
1:00:52
share with our guests in each. Episode.
1:00:55
To your own life, really utilize this feel framework.
1:00:59
Go to embracinglayers.com, fill out our contact form and let's
1:01:04
set up a free 30 minute consultation to talk about how
1:01:09
you can start living your most authentic, organic, healthy,
1:01:14
feel fueled life. Thanks again for being with us
1:01:17
today. We'll be back to you soon with
1:01:19
another episode here on the Feel Podcast.